Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Support FreeBSD

Hemos posted about 11 years ago | from the get-your-support-running dept.

Announcements 51

welloy writes "In a mail to freebsd-announce Robert Bruce writes that "during the week of September 7th to September 13th, all revenue from purchases at the FreeBSD Mall will be donated to the FreeBSD Foundation to support work being done to improve the fine grained threading in the FreeBSD Kernel, and other improvements needed to make the upcoming 5.2 release a success." The offer also applies to their table at BSDCon. This is a great way to support the FreeBSD project and ensure they have funding to keep up their great work."

cancel ×

51 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

omg (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6860963)

bsd is dying

etc

In Soviet Russia (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6860968)

In Soviet Russia, BSD deads YOU!

Welcome ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861022)

I, for one, welcome our new *BSD overlords. May we live long and prosper under the cadaverous magnificence of our dead masters.

But... but... but... (4, Funny)

mcgroarty (633843) | about 11 years ago | (#6861057)

Darl McBride is standing here.
Darl McBride glowers at you.
Darl McBride takes a swing - miss!
Nothing happens.
Darl McBride glowers at you.
Nothing happens.
Nothing happens.
Nothing happens.
> _

Re:But... but... but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861096)

this is what happens to freebsd users when SCO attacks free the software community :)

donate (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861065)

I donate regularly to the FreeBSD foundation (not much, $100/yr, I also give the same to EFF and the FSF).

If your business relies on FreeBSD as ours does, I suggest you do the same.. it's not really a donation, it's an investment in your business' future technology needs!!

Go ahead, take a look at that rack/shelf/desk filled with FreeBSD machines. Think about how great it is that you've got a simple, secure, stable platform and you didn't pay anything but a few hours of your time.

Now head over to the page [freebsdfoundation.org] and give 'em a few bucks.

Re:donate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861186)

A bigger donation would be to troll the FreeBSD mailing lists for Commit Bit Queens and to step on their heads. BSD Queens turn away good patches and piss off good developers because they won't kiss CBQ toes or hover in the list five years before submitting.

"I'm not even looking at this! Who the hell are YOU to submit a patch??"

BSD is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861105)


Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's
future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying.
Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of
blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.

Follow the money (2, Interesting)

zangdesign (462534) | about 11 years ago | (#6861175)

I was under the impression that all or most of the money already went to the FreeBSD project.

Re:Follow the money (4, Informative)

gl4ss (559668) | about 11 years ago | (#6861279)

in a way they are this should explain a bit. [freebsdmall.com]

.

Re:Follow the money (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861934)

Parent is a GOATSE.CX link using FreeBSDMall's CGI URL forwarding system. Look at the URL yourself before visiting!

Re:Follow the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6863255)

Didn't happen to me. I ended up on FreeBSDMall like parent said.

Y do I bother feeding the trolls?

Re:Follow the money (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861281)

This was before Walnut Creek sold FreeBSD. FreeBSD usage dropped precipitously without Walnut Creek's support, and so the business model had to change in order to cover lower-volume production. 5% of net is now given to the FreeBSD foundation while the remainder pays for travel to shows to promote the FreeBSD products, half of the DSL used to host the website, as well as paying toward the monthly advertisement in the back of Family Computing. The bulk of the second usually comes out of pocket, however.

Sadly, this dying volume is why new versions of the Toolkits and the boxed sets can only be updated every 18 months instead of quarterly as before. The jewel box sets are produced in house on regular old CD-Rs and the labels are printed on an inkjet, so these can always be kept up to date however. If you order a boxed set, please be sure to order a jewel case version as well unless the June 2002 version is sufficient for your needs, unless you have a very high end machine (Pentium 90 or newer.)

Questions, please feel free to write:
Bruce, Robert - rab@FREEBSDMALL.COM
FreeBSD Mall, Inc.
3623 Sanford Street
Concord, CA 94520-1405

Re:Follow the money (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861337)

ps: The Free BSD Mall gratefully accepts donations!

Any computers, network cards, printer paper, or even plain old cash would help to survive another day! They may be mailed to the address above. (Please, no checks. Finding a bank willing to work with FreeBSD companies has been difficult.)

Re:Follow the money (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861736)

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

Re:Follow the money (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861868)

Please stop spreading FUD. Thanks to FreeBSD Mall, BSD will enjoy a long and fruitful life. The recovery effort is fantastic, and it may even soon outgrow it's current corner of our kitchen. Once in a while, we can't even fit a whole day's orders in the oven to activate the shrink wrap and we have to ship in zip-lock bags!

Re:Follow the money (2, Insightful)

Arandir (19206) | about 11 years ago | (#6864675)

The jewel box CDs are CD-Rs with inkjet printed labels? They look pretty damned professional to me. You can't even see where the inkjet paper blends into the actual CD. In fact, I can't tell the difference in CD quality between the latest 4.8 jewel box and the old Walnut Creek jewel boxes.

Methinks you have your facts wrong. Perhaps you're referring to something other than FreeBSD Mall.

Re:Follow the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6866199)

Arandir,

YHBT.

Re:Follow the money (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861685)

The End of FreeBSD

[Ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

= Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

Re:Follow the money (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6863428)

As far as I know Windows has had native support for Java for ages. Actually, since Microsoft and Sun signed an agreement about this back in 1997 that deals with this issue. So the fact that FreeBSD only recently got this is fine but not exactly revolutionary.

Re:Follow the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6875238)

If you carefully examine all the stats and evidence, only one conclusion can be reached, *BSD is dying

Low Volume! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861372)

Well, look at that! Somebody threw a story and nobody showed up.

Surely this will be a new Slashdot record for "too BSD: didn't read."

Re:Low Volume! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6890223)

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. If truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.

Good Riddance (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861381)

BSD is gasping for breath. Good. Anything with the BSD license should die off. BSD is a license to steal, and is unworthy of the free software community's support.That goes for you Mac traitors too. I'm glad to see them desperate for cash like this.

If you're using anything but GPL'd software, you're a slave. Free Code is the mantra for the 21st century; it is the only path to true freedom.

Linux is the one true OS.

GPL is the one true license.

Everything else is shit.

Re:Good Riddance (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861519)

FreeBSD 6.0 IS switching to GPL, you nimrod [jerk] . Do your research before posting next time, you dirty little troll.

FreeBSD is fast on the path to becoming more free [as-in.socially.abrasive] than Linux.

You LIE! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861775)

Free software would never be soiled by the filth of BSD. And you dare say that BSD is going to be GPL'd....lying slut! Your attempt at enabling the crypto-fascist conspiracy will FAIL! Ashcroft lover! We will be free. The GPL is our new bill of rights, and we will not be denied. We demand access to free data. We are criminals in our own world, and our crime is curiosity. We are hackers. We will tear down your tired walls, and replace them with the green pastures of free software!

Even Apple knew enough to change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861408)

Why is csh still the default on FreeBSD? To be taken seriously this should change to bash, which is a superior shell with a superior license.

bash and bash2 are in the ports. They should be made default binary installs instead.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861445)

bash2 is being made the default shell for FreeBSD 6.0. 6.0 will also be the first version released under the GPL instead of the dated BSD license which has been exploited a few times too many.

The goal was for 5.0 to be the first GPL release, however nobody anticipated the amount of effort it would take to track down all of the old developers to get them to sign the new license agreement. Some have been completely unreachable, and this has resulted in many userland utilities being rewritten or replaced, as well as the entire network stack. These efforts are well under way, and if the last release critical port authors can be reached in the next three months, you can expect FreeBSD 6.0 by Christmas, along with your treasured bash shell.

I know I'm replying to a troll, but the fact is that this is being fixed. Hopefully that was your last reason not to join us as a contributing FreeBSD user. Troll amnesty: we welcome you anyway! :)

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (1)

Arandir (19206) | about 11 years ago | (#6862289)

Who the hell marked this as "informative"? "Funny" maybe, "informative" absolutely not. This post was an obvious sarcasm to the previous whine about tcsh.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6862558)

As far as I know Windows have had native support for Java for ages. Actually since Microsoft and Sun signed an agreement about this back in 1997 that deals with this issue. So the fact that FreeBSD only recently got this is fine but not exactly revolutionary.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6862602)

How do you have a sarcasm? Moron.

If csh really bothers you that much, jump to the head of CVS and use the BSD that has bash already. It's a little unstable, but it's better than listening to the pro-bash whining you do.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6862318)

Is it that much work to spend two seconds installing bash? Does the tcsh (not csh) shell offend you so much? Get a clue. Stop whining for people to hold your hand. You're a big boy now, learn to tie your own shoes.

shell game (1)

kace (557434) | about 11 years ago | (#6869655)

Is it that much work to spend two seconds installing bash?

No, it's not. I've built dozens of BSD boxes, at work and at home, and I've never had one without bash, which I install from a package during the installation. It rarely takes as long as two seconds. (... Are you some sly kind of troll? :) )

I like choosing my own shell and I like only having minimalist shells in the base system. Some of these people need to get a life and stop nit-picking.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6862666)

As far as I know Windows has had native support for Java for ages. Actually, since Microsoft and Sun signed an agreement about this back in 1997 that deals with this issue. So the fact that FreeBSD only recently got this is fine but not exactly revolutionary.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (3, Informative)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | about 11 years ago | (#6863775)

Me senseth a troll...

Why is csh still the default on FreeBSD?
You don't even know what you're talking about. The only account that has tcsh is root. If you go to single user mode, the prompt actually asks you whjat shell to run. You only see it if you log in or su. The default config also has a toor account (uid 0) that defaults to bash shell. As far as normal users go, the first time you run adduser it asks you what should be the default shell for new users, getting a list from /etc/shells. tcsh is not the default, just takes a little work (cd /usr/ports; make install clean) to get bash before running adduser for the first time.

To be taken seriously
Taken seriously? What, it has a bad image because Krusty the Klown endorses tcsh?

this should change to bash, which is a superior shell
Agreed, I hate tcsh, thats why my machine defaults to bash for all new accounts.

BTW: some would debate that zsh is superior to bash (I actually agree, but zsh isn't universally available to me on all systems I need to be on). Should I run around to RedHat and gentoo and tell them they should change their shell because zsh is better?

with a superior license.
Debateable. And you just answered your own question, the license issue. If Stallman can have his whole snitfit about GPL code and saying the only true license is the GNU license EVEN when the license has been cerified Open Source, then BSD can do what it wants.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6865921)

The default config also has a toor account (uid 0) that defaults to bash shell.

No, it doesn't. The default config has a toor account that defaults to the sh shell. sh is a bourne shell, but it's far from bash for interactive use, and lacks such basics as command-line editing and completion. bash has to be installed on any FreeBSD box that wants it.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (2, Informative)

fsdb (145089) | about 11 years ago | (#6870314)

/bin/sh (the BSD Bourne shell) DOES have command-line editing. Both vi and emacs flavors -- just like bash. Please try things before posting "facts" about them.

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (2, Interesting)

muyThaiBxr (141607) | about 11 years ago | (#6868270)

I disagree, tcsh is a great shell, normal csh sucks. Which shell you use is largely personal preference, but in my eyes, tcsh and bash are equal in terms of features, so after that just use the shell you prefer. I personally prefer tcsh, as do many of the people who use FreeBSD.

bash sucks ass (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6864299)

enough said

Re:Even Apple knew enough to change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6887998)

Maybe you're a bit retarded.

What We Can Learn From BSD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861580)

What We Can Learn From BSD
By Chinese Karma Whore [slashdot.org] , Version 1.0

Everyone knows about BSD's failure and imminent demise. As we pore over the history of BSD, we'll uncover a story of fatal mistakes, poor priorities, and personal rivalry, and we'll learn what mistakes to avoid so as to save Linux from a similarly grisly fate.

Let's not be overly morbid and give BSD credit for its early successes. In the 1970s, Ken Thompson and Bill Joy both made significant contributions to the computing world on the BSD platform. In the 80s, DARPA saw BSD as the premiere open platform, and, after initial successes with the 4.1BSD product, gave the BSD company a 2 year contract.

These early triumphs would soon be forgotten in a series of internal conflicts that would mar BSD's progress. In 1992, AT&T filed suit against Berkeley Software, claiming that proprietary code agreements had been haphazardly violated. In the same year, BSD filed countersuit, reciprocating bad intentions and fueling internal rivalry. While AT&T and Berkeley Software lawyers battled in court, lead developers of various BSD distributions quarreled on Usenet. In 1995, Theo de Raadt, one of the founders of the NetBSD project, formed his own rival distribution, OpenBSD, as the result of a quarrel that he documents [theos.com] on his website. Mr. de Raadt's stubborn arrogance was later seen in his clash with Darren Reed, which resulted in the expulsion of IPF from the OpenBSD distribution.

As personal rivalries took precedence over a quality product, BSD's codebase became worse and worse. As we all know, incompatibilities between each BSD distribution make code sharing an arduous task. Research conducted at MIT [mit.edu] found BSD's filesystem implementation to be "very poorly performing." Even BSD's acclaimed TCP/IP stack has lagged behind, according to this study [rice.edu] .

Problems with BSD's codebase were compounded by fundamental flaws in the BSD design approach. As argued by Eric Raymond in his watershed essay, The Cathedral and the Bazaar [tuxedo.org] , rapid, decentralized development models are inherently superior to slow, centralized ones in software development. BSD developers never heeded Mr. Raymond's lesson and insisted that centralized models lead to 'cleaner code.' Don't believe their hype - BSD's development model has significantly impaired its progress. Any achievements that BSD managed to make were nullified by the BSD license, which allows corporations and coders alike to reap profits without reciprocating the goodwill of open-source. Fortunately, Linux is not prone to this exploitation, as it is licensed under the GPL.

The failure of BSD culminated in the resignation of Jordan Hubbard and Michael Smith from the FreeBSD core team. They both believed that FreeBSD had long lost its earlier vitality. Like an empire in decline, BSD had become bureaucratic and stagnant. As Linux gains market share and as BSD sinks deeper into the mire of decay, their parting addresses will resound as fitting eulogies to BSD's demise.

Developer laments: What Killed FreeBSD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861612)

The End of FreeBSD

[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

= Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

FreeBSD Developer Conference (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861705)

I thought now might be a good time to post photos [nero-online.org] of the most recent FreeBSD Developers Conference!

Much was decided. The direction for KDE3.2 is clear, and hopefully it will be available in ports as soon as X11 is able to run as well!

Thanks to all who attended! I never thought I'd get my PGP Key Signed, if you know what I mean ;0

~Karl

Bones: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6861932)

BSD's dead, Jim.

Please, DO NOT support them (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6862847)

Google around and you'll what kind of people the FreeBSD developers are: snobs, arrogant assholes. Prime examples of this are Poul-Henning Kamp, Bill Fumerola, Mark Murray, Dag-Erling Smorgrav, Doug Barton, David O'Brien, Joseph Mallett and many others.

Don't forget these assholes kicked Matt Dillon out!

Astro Glass

Re:Please, DO NOT support them (5, Insightful)

edhall (10025) | about 11 years ago | (#6866273)

You must not have spent much time reading LKML (Linux Kernel Mailing List). It's hardly populated by paragons of politeness (from Linus on down). That's hardly a surprise -- they are there to conduct the serious business of building and enhancing the Linux kernel, and naive questions draw dismissive responses if they are answered at all. So why are people so surprised at the responses they get when they post inappropriately to the equivalent FreeBSD lists?

I've seen it happen again aand again: someone posts an inappropriate question to freebsd-stable, freebsd-current, or some other technical list, and after a few private suggestions to take it to freebsd-questions or freebsd-chat persists in posting. It's usually only then that one of the heavy hitters decides to knock him out of the ring...

As for Matt Dillion, he was given a choice: play by the rules, or leave. He chose the latter. It's no secret that he didn't agree with some of the choices made in FreeBSD 5 development, so it's a good thing that he's decided to channel his considerable talents into creating his own distribution [dragonflybsd.org] based on FreeBSD 4. Nonetheless, he still is on cordial terms with many of the FreeBSD developers, still runs FreeBSD on many of his machines, still makes bug reports and suggests patches, and so on.

In other words, he shows a lot more class and maturity than guys like you who, sore after some imagined slight, take anonymous pot-shots from the sidelines.

-Ed

Re:Please, DO NOT support them (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6875722)

Fact: *BSD is dying

It is common knowledge that *BSD is dying. You, I, everyone knows that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The erosion of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is extremely sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Pimping (2, Interesting)

rf0 (159958) | about 11 years ago | (#6863230)

I would also like to point out our companies donation scheme at JVDS.com [jvds.com]

Rus

trouble with FreeBSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6868463)

Jeepers, I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you BSD fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a BSD box (a PIII 800 w/512 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this BSD box, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, Netscape will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Emacs Lite is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various BSD machines, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a BSD box that has run faster than its Windows counterpart, despite the BSD machine's faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 800 mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that BSD is a "superior" machine.

BSD addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a BSD over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

silly trolls (1)

chowells (166602) | about 11 years ago | (#6870293)

You're a stupid troll and I know that considering that you've posted this rubbish on several occassions, but just so that nobody else gets the wrong idea, copying a 19MB file takes 4 seconds on a Pentium 150 running FreeBSD.

chris@gimli:~> ls -lh test
-rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 19M Sep 4 17:55 test
chris@gimli:~> time cp test test.old

real 0m3.430s
user 0m0.001s
sys 0m1.644s
chris@gimli:~> ls -lh test.old
-rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 19M Sep 4 17:57 test.old

Developer laments: What Killed FreeBSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6888326)

The End of FreeBSD

[Ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

== Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>