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Gnome 2.4 Release(d)

timothy posted about 11 years ago | from the seldon-plan dept.

GNOME 566

chendo writes "Gnome 2.4 will be released today. Here is the link to the article on Ars Technica. GNOME 2.4 is the result of quite a bit of work toward complying with the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines (HIG), which mainly focus on user interface consistency and predictability. This release has also undergone some general polish, and it can finally be said that the GNOME 2 platform has achieved maturity with this release. The Epiphany web browser, a major new component of GNOME, also makes its debut with this release. (From Footnotes)"

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Mandrake (1)

rice_web (604109) | about 11 years ago | (#6919809)

Are we going to have to wait until Mandrake 9.2 to get our hands on Gnome (outside of going through the installer, something I'd probably f'up)?

Re:Mandrake (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919839)

1. wait one week
2. su -; apt-get update && apt-get install gnome
3. ???
4. Profit!

Re:Mandrake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919898)

better yet,

su
emerge sync
emerge world/gnome

And you get gnome, all nicely compiled for your system, not a fucking 386 from nineteendicketytwo.

Re:Mandrake (2, Informative)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | about 11 years ago | (#6920074)

better yet,

su
emerge sync
emerge world/gnome

And you get gnome, all nicely compiled for your system, not a fucking 386 from nineteendicketytwo.



Although I love Gentoo (I got my 1.4 CDs yesterday!!), You are so wrong about MDK. MDK is compiled for pentiums and up. You're thinking of Red Hat. It's compiled for a 386.

Please think before you post.

P.S.
Yes, I'm aware there's a 486 release of MDK (or at least used to be, anyway), but the "default" MDK distro is compiled for the 586.

Re:Mandrake (5, Informative)

salimma (115327) | about 11 years ago | (#6920204)

You're thinking of Red Hat. It's compiled for a 386

Actually, Mandrake is compiled for i686 but only using the i586 instruction set, while Red Hat is compiled for i686 utilising the i486 instruction set for compatibility. Why it's still called 'i386' is anyone's guess.

Re:Mandrake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919978)

Maybe with the most unstable branch of debian you might possibly get it within a week...

hey, I can post a/c too!

Yes, because you can't install GNOMEHIDE on Mandke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919858)

Yes, because you can't install GNOMEHIDE on Mandke

I guess you'll have to "wait"

And there was great rejoicing (-1, Redundant)

bahamat (187909) | about 11 years ago | (#6919811)

Yay.

Insert 'underpant Gnome 2.4 joke here' (1)

Channard (693317) | about 11 years ago | (#6919897)

Now all we need is a Gnome that is absolutely and utterly foolproof and we can slap Linux onto every PC ever.

first post you cunts (-1, Troll)

unshaven23 (691141) | about 11 years ago | (#6919816)

first post

Re:first post you cunts (-1, Offtopic)

rice_web (604109) | about 11 years ago | (#6919824)

Um... not really. That [slashdot.org] honor belongs to me.

Re:first post you cunts (-1, Offtopic)

unshaven23 (691141) | about 11 years ago | (#6919841)

darn, there goes my karma... what carma?

hopefully (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919826)

ximian will supply users with 2.4 soon!!!

Re:hopefully (3, Informative)

Lispy (136512) | about 11 years ago | (#6920208)

dropline [dropline.net] will supply users with 2.4 soon!!

standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919830)

Please become standard and replace openwindows, please...
Unix vendors unite /AC

That's great! Accessibility? (1, Interesting)

192939495969798999 (58312) | about 11 years ago | (#6919834)

Does anyone know if this version of GNOME has good accessibility-related GUI stuff? One of the big concessions that I've heard about Windows is that it has a lot of accessibility features that weren't present in other previous GUIs.

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (5, Interesting)

egrinake (308662) | about 11 years ago | (#6919895)

Well, GNOME has already won awards [gnomedesktop.org] for its accessibility work, and it has a mature framework for dealing with this (disclaimer: I've never tried it, just heard people praising it).

The article itself points this out in two [arstechnica.com] places [arstechnica.com] .

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (5, Informative)

KarmaPolice (212543) | about 11 years ago | (#6919899)

From the (f*******) article:
Gnome 2.4 ships with GOK, an award-winning dynamic onscreen keyboard. It supports Direct Selection, Dwell Selection, Automatic Scanning and Inverse Scanning, and includes word completion. A detailed overview can be found on the GOK website.

Gnopernicus, the second accessibility application to ship with GNOME, provides a number of assistive technologies for people suffering from visual impairment. Most notably, it includes a screen reader, a screen magnifier and a Braille writer.

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (4, Funny)

Timesprout (579035) | about 11 years ago | (#6919931)

Gnopernicus, the second accessibility application

How can you provide accessibility functionality thru an unpronouncable application ?

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (5, Informative)

bahamat (187909) | about 11 years ago | (#6919914)

One of the big concessions that I've heard about Windows is that it has a lot of accessibility features that weren't present in other previous GUIs.

That's actually not true. The X-Windowing-System has come with xmag virtually for ever. High contrast themes are not hard to create. You can make icons and fonts whatever size you want. We've even got sticky keys. The only thing X is missing as far as accessibility is keyboard control of the mouse cursor. Then again, you can always run ratpoison [sourceforge.net] and be rid of the rodent forever.

You've been lied to my friend.

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920009)

Try Shift-Numlock, it worked for me for ages

mod parent up (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920057)

It's true, I've done this by mistake many times. You hear a beep when it is turned on and off. It took me a while to figure out what it does, but it lets you control the mouse cursor with the keyboard. I forget which buttons simulate clicks though. Either Ins, Del, Enter, + or -.

simulating clicks (1)

timothy (36799) | about 11 years ago | (#6920094)

I dunno about middle and right buttons, but a standard left click seems to be linked to the numberpad "5" key ;)

I had nearly forgotten about this, but your comment reminded me to play with it, and I just posted this comment after jumping around the page with my number pad ... and accidentally hit "5." ;)

timothy

Re:simulating clicks (5, Informative)

ThogScully (589935) | about 11 years ago | (#6920167)

5 is a button click and and you change what button it is by clicking / for left, * for both, and - for right. + is a double-click. 0 is button hold, . is release.
-N

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (1)

nathanh (1214) | about 11 years ago | (#6920179)

That's actually not true. The X-Windowing-System has come with xmag virtually for ever. High contrast themes are not hard to create. You can make icons and fonts whatever size you want. We've even got sticky keys. The only thing X is missing as far as accessibility is keyboard control of the mouse cursor.

Shift-Numlock. Then use the keypad.

I installed RedHat 9.0 with Gnome 2.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919952)

And it really looked almost just like Windows 2K now...

So yes, it IS accessible !)

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (1)

Matias D'Ambrosio (609229) | about 11 years ago | (#6919984)

Page 4 of the article:

"Desktop Accessibility Tools


Gnome 2.4 ships with GOK, an award-winning dynamic onscreen keyboard. It supports Direct Selection, Dwell Selection, Automatic Scanning and Inverse Scanning, and includes word completion. A detailed overview can be found on the GOK website.

Gnopernicus, the second accessibility application to ship with GNOME, provides a number of assistive technologies for people suffering from visual impairment. Most notably, it includes a screen reader, a screen magnifier and a Braille writer."

Re:That's great! Accessibility? (4, Informative)

hephro (166117) | about 11 years ago | (#6920216)

Regarding speech recognition: Unfortunately, Gnome doesn't have anything that comes close to products such as Dragon Dictate and ViaVoice. The ViaVoice version for Linux was discontinued at some point... and free software such as Sphinx [cmu.edu] doesn't come close to the commercial products.

Maybe this one of the areas where free software really has a hard time catching up: small market, highly sophisticated software, small "coolness" factor, and very smooth desktop-integration a requirement...

Use.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919835)

Windows you faggots!

S.

Bill Gates

2.4? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919851)

my gnomes in the garden are only 1.5" tall :-)

To keep this topic readable... (5, Funny)

geschild (43455) | about 11 years ago | (#6919852)

All KDE and Gnome Zealots please board this thread, forsaking all other threads within this topic.

To make this new guideline more comfortable for the really and truly devoted:

- KDE had all of the new features three releases ago. Please get Gnome development out of the way of The One Real GUI(tm)

- KDE whiners: eat our dust! (Gnome, The True Gui for Real People)

A Console/Lynx user... (Yeah, right... ;)

Re:To keep this topic readable... (3, Funny)

iapetus (24050) | about 11 years ago | (#6919894)

While we're on the topic of religious software wars, you might want to try Links [sourceforge.net] instead of Lynx. [isc.org]

Re:To keep this topic readable... (4, Funny)

geschild (43455) | about 11 years ago | (#6920097)

Thank you for the tip, but I'd rather just telnet in and parse the HTML myself, thank you.

(That damn w3c is making life ever harder for us hard-core wankers though. Every new revision of the standards I have to 'update' my parser through a long and painfull flashing process called learning.)

KDE had all of the new features three releases ago (2, Funny)

murple (28187) | about 11 years ago | (#6919901)

If you really want to lure all the trolls into the on true thread, you should use a subject like this. ;-)

Murple

Re:KDE had all of the new features three releases (3, Funny)

geschild (43455) | about 11 years ago | (#6920120)

Thanks for the tip. You're a bit late though, lieutenant. My original post is already modded -1 Troll. *grin*

Boycott Trolltech, the makers of QT and KDE !!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919950)

Trolltech is controlled by the Canopy Group!
Canopy Group are the goons behind SCO.
Trolltech has failed to explain their relationship
with Canopy; probably because their are secret
agreements with them and Canopy. These
relationships give them much more control than
the simple 6 percent owenership: seats on the board
of directors, warrants to buy more stock if
Trolltech succeeds, shared employees, etc.
Just what's up Trolltech?

Re:To keep this topic readable... (-1, Redundant)

geschild (43455) | about 11 years ago | (#6920017)

Awww! Hush my poor little Karma. These bad moderator people just have no sense of humor *growls* AT ALL!

(There's plenty more where that came from! :D)

Hey, it was a great idea. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920098)

Dump all trolls here. Free fire zone.
Relaxed rules of engagement. Great idea.

Browsers... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919853)

What is the point of all these different integrated browsers now appearing in X window managers?

Sure an integrated browser is handy, but wouldnt it be worth putting the same effort into an existing browser like Mozilla Firebird instead?

Re:Browsers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919912)

it's part of the coordinated effort to replace Windows + IE on the desktop.

i.e., lets get gnome/kde as bloated as possible. (it has worked for MS!)

...because they predate Firebird... (1)

turgid (580780) | about 11 years ago | (#6919982)

Many of these integrated browsers were started long before Mozilla got useful or Mozilla Firebird was coneived. Yes, GNOME and KDE are that old. Some people have short memories.

Re:...because they predate Firebird... (4, Informative)

__past__ (542467) | about 11 years ago | (#6920117)

Both Galeon and Epiphany use Gecko, the Mozilla rendering engine. It's unlikely that they are much older than Mozilla itself.

Re:Browsers... (4, Informative)

Jellybob (597204) | about 11 years ago | (#6919989)

It's an integration thing... Firebird/Mozilla/whatever else has it's own way of doing windowing, unlike Epiphany, which is GTK2 based, and integrated with the Gnome config options.

Re:Browsers... (1)

gilesjuk (604902) | about 11 years ago | (#6920015)

Konqueror is a great browser IMHO. Apple used the KHTML engine in Safari as it was lean and mean.

Anyway, just throwing developers onto a project doesn't mean you get a better product. It's taken years to get anything semi decent out of the Mozilla project, they overdid it with the OO framework stuff. Creating a whole GUI system instead of a browser.

Re:Browsers... (1)

OldBus (596183) | about 11 years ago | (#6920025)

According to the article, Epiphany is based on Gecko, so I guess a lot of the code *is* shared. Also, Mozilla has t owork on a wide variety of platforms so it can't be as integrated into a desktop as a more customised browser.

Re:Browsers... (1)

aug24 (38229) | about 11 years ago | (#6920152)

It's Gecko based, so in a sense it *is* Firebird. Anyway, good code/features will jump to other apps: that's the point of OS!

Re:Browsers... (4, Informative)

Deusy (455433) | about 11 years ago | (#6920174)

Firstly, Gnome is not an X Window Manager.

Secondly, only two 'desktops' have their own 'integrated' browser; Gnome (Epiphany) and KDE (Konqueror).

The purpose of the integrated web browser is to provide a default for users, and to provide extra functionality through tight integration with the desktop. Think Internet Explorer in Windows.

- Imagine if you installed your new Gnome and tried to browse the web, only to find no browser available
- Epiphany views can be embedded in Nautilus
- Epiphany strictly follows the HIG and other Gnome2 standards (GConf etc)

In a decent desktop, every basic task should be accomplishable through a default suite of applications; playing media, writing documents, browsing the web, checking your email. And each of these components should be substitutable so those requiring extra functionality (or with a simple preference) can drop-in their preferred application. This is part the Utopia the Gnome project is working towards.

Where's 2.4 (1)

deadmongrel (621467) | about 11 years ago | (#6919860)

all i see is "COMING SOON!" Has it really been released?

Re:Where's 2.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920004)

What part of "Gnome 2.4 will be released today" was hard to understand?

Still major usability issues... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919864)

1) Main menu doesn't respond to alphabet keybindings ala IceWM, KDE and Windows 95!

2) Taskbar doesn't reflect order that programs were started in. It inserts new buttons at random positions.

GNOME rules, but these two things (among the Metacity wireframe and animation niggles) are real problems. For all the UI work, it's a shame they can't get such elementary stuff right.

Still, I'll be downloading it tonight :)

Re:Still major usability issues... (5, Insightful)

mccalli (323026) | about 11 years ago | (#6919947)

2) Taskbar doesn't reflect order that programs were started in. It inserts new buttons at random positions.

Disclaimer: Haven't used pure Gnome in quite a while, perhaps some of the points below have been handled by now.

I hate the fact that the Windows taskbar reflects the order in which the apps are launched and then cannot be changed. If you're going to have a taskbar interface, then fair enough chronological order seems a sensible default. However once launched, I really want to be able to drag that indication to whatever position I want in the taskbar.

For example, at work on my NT4 box I have a standard set of apps open most times. They are Notes (ugh), two Firebird windows, Putty and a Remote desktop connection. Apps after that can come and go, but I want those apps always in the same place so I don't have to hunt for them later.

I'm also an OS X user, and although I'm aware of criticism of the dock there's certainly one thing to be said for it - your most frequenctly used applications always appear in the same place, both for launching and for bringing to the front.

As a quick aside - anyone else remember the Apple Human Interface Guidlines circa System 7-era, incorporating the Principle of Muscular Remembrance? The idea is that important stuff is always in the same place, every time, so that the user doesn't even have to conciously think about where to find things. It's the reason Macs have a single menu bar, at the top of the screen. It seems to me to also be a key thought behind the dock.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Still major usability issues... (4, Interesting)

cbiltcliffe (186293) | about 11 years ago | (#6919954)

2) Taskbar doesn't reflect order that programs were started in. It inserts new buttons at random positions.

It doesn't insert them at random. It inserts them beside similar buttons. At least, Debian testing's Gnome (version 2.2) does.

If you open a Galeon window, then a terminal window, then a FreeCell window, then open a second Galeon window, the button for the second Galeon window will appear in the taskbar beside the first Galeon button. That way, you don't have to go searching through 14 buttons to find the similar ones.

Windows XP does this, too, if I remember rightly. Of course, every time I see a default Windows XP install, I want to gouge my eyes out in horror.....

Re:Still major usability issues... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920016)

Hrm... Well that may be fair enough if you want that kinda thing, but there should at least be an option to disable it. Chronologically still makes much more sense when you're quickly opening and closing windows, IMHO.

But anyway, thanks for explaining -- at least now I know it's a design decision rather than a worrying bug. Here's hoping the option to revert to 'normal' behaviour will appear at some point.

Re:Still major usability issues... (2, Insightful)

nutshell42 (557890) | about 11 years ago | (#6920045)

Actually I think that's stupid (let the flame wars begin =)

I normally have a great number of windows open. As most start their entry in the taskbar with the application name and then the content of the application I normally can't read which specific instance of an application that button means (the entry would look something like this: "Galeo...") Therefore I think it's better for instances of the same program to be as far apart as possible because that way it's easier to remember which one you wanted. (actually I solved the problem by having the taskbar on the side and rather wide but I know a lot of people who don't want their taskbar hidden by other windows and therefore can't do it this way)

jm2c

Re:Still major usability issues... (4, Interesting)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | about 11 years ago | (#6920157)

I normally have a great number of windows open. As most start their entry in the taskbar with the application name and then the content of the application I normally can't read which specific instance of an application that button means

This is the great thing about multiple desktops. It took me a little while to get used to, but I can't stand going to a Win* machine and having only one desktop now after using "Linux" for 5 or 6 years.

I usually use 4 desktops. 1 and 2 are my "working" desktops (work, web browsing, games, etc.). Desktop 3 I leave my mail app open (kmail). Desktop 4 I usually have Pan open or minimized, and also keep a few network monitoring apps open (etherape, ethereal, tailing /var/log/messages, things like that). This way it keeps my taskbar clutter to a minimum, but keeps everything just a click (or a CTRL+TAB) away at the same time. VERY handy!

It's not out yet. (5, Informative)

asobala (563713) | about 11 years ago | (#6919870)

When is _is_ out, you'll have all sorts of release notes and screenshots to look at. Slashdot is announcing non-existant releases again :)

Write GnomeVFS modules: (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919871)

Learn how to use the GnomeVFS library to extend GNOME, enabling drag-and-drop and other features across multiple protocols and file systems. This article [ibm.com] gives you what you'll need to extend GNOME and develop your own extensions to the virtual file system.

morons re-lease pateNTdead eyecon0meter 02b12 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919907)

that's right. we're hesitating on promoting our colonels, until the badtoll has been resolved/coolappsed.

meanwhile:

be careful when opposing corepirate nazis/unprecedented evile/the walking dead. we're building a vessel that floats on almost any substance.

that's right. you/we cannot afford the badtoll that lies ahead, should the greed/fear based georgewellian fuddite execrable fail to be neutralized.

it's also remarkable that. J. Public et AL has yet to become involved in open/honest 'net communications/commerce in a meaningful way. that's mostly due to the MiSinformation suppLIEd buy phonIE ?pr? ?firm?/stock markup FraUD execrable, etc...

truth is, there's no better/more affordable/effective way that we know of, for J. to reach other J.'s &/or their respective markets.

the recipe is:

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. vote with yOUR wallet. more breathing. seek others of non-agressive intentions/behaviours. that's the spirit.

use key words/indexing to identify yourself/your products.

the overbullowned greed/fear based phonIE marketeers are self eliminating by their owned greed/fear/ego based evile MiSintentions. they must deny the existence of the power that is dissolving their ability to continue their self-centered evile behaviours.

as the lights continue to come up, you'll see what we mean. meanwhile, there are plenty of challenges, not the least of which is the planet/population rescue (from the corepirate nazi/walking dead contingent) initiative.

EVERYTHING is going to change, despite the lameNT of the evile wons. you can bet your .asp on that. when the lights come up, there'll be no going back, & no where to hide.

we weren't planted here to facilitate/perpetuate the excesses of a handful of Godless felons. you already know that? yOUR ONLY purpose here is to help one another. any other pretense is totally false.

pay attention (to yOUR environment, for example). that's quite affordable, & leads to insights on preserving life as it should/could/will be again. everything's ALL about yOUR motives.

take care, we're here for you.

I still love you. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920183)

Please go out with me.

Gnome development outpacing KDE? (-1, Troll)

HanzoSan (251665) | about 11 years ago | (#6919908)

This is crazy, 2 Gnome Releases, and 0 KDE releases.

Re:Gnome development outpacing KDE? (2, Insightful)

apdt (575306) | about 11 years ago | (#6919936)

That could be taken as a sign of maturity.

Draw what conclusions you like from that....

Not Really (3, Interesting)

Bruha (412869) | about 11 years ago | (#6919961)

KDE IMO is pretty stable and Gnome for that matter is also. But I use KDE becuase there appears to be more apps being developed for it.

Maybe if the WM's would design some sort of common application interface so things would look right on all the WM's that confirmed to the standard then we'd see a lot more x-compatibility in those applications.

And why does each WM have a seperate browser/file explorer? Just keep the explorer seperate from web browsing (Besides it's a MicroSoft idiocy) and we can all use Mozilla/Opera or whatever else.

Re:Gnome development outpacing KDE? (2, Insightful)

p0rnking (255997) | about 11 years ago | (#6919994)

It's all about the "Quality", not the "Quantity"

Re:Gnome development outpacing KDE? (0, Flamebait)

HanzoSan (251665) | about 11 years ago | (#6920013)



KDE isnt doing much to their interface lately, although we can blame Xfree86 for not finishing up the SVG stuff, KDE is getting left in Gnomes dust right now.

Re:Gnome development outpacing KDE? (3, Insightful)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | about 11 years ago | (#6920206)

KDE isnt doing much to their interface lately, although we can blame Xfree86 for not finishing up the SVG stuff, KDE is getting left in Gnomes dust right now.

I would love to hear your rationale for saying that. How has Gnome surpassed KDE? How has KDE's interface grown stagnant? I agree with the SVG comment part, but that's not KDE's "fault" (not that it's anyones "fault", but...). I can be 100% honest when I say: There is nothing major not offered in KDE that makes me even think of it as growing stagnant, and certainly not with the 3.2 release in the works.

(I'm not trying to start a war, there's good things about Gnome as well, I just prefer KDE and would like to hear why you feel that it's getting "left in Gnomes dust right now")

Re:Gnome development outpacing KDE? (4, Informative)

BenjyD (316700) | about 11 years ago | (#6920019)

Must...not...respond....to....troll...but can't help it

I lurk on the kde dev mailing lists and the number of changes upcoming in 3.2 is pretty impressive: A lot of new PIM features, the Safari changes to KHTML, speed improvements. KDE is at the stage where new releases are really adding polish rather than making major changes, but there are still a lot of good new things going in.

And for next week we announce... (1)

theMAGE (51991) | about 11 years ago | (#6919945)

Linux-2.6.0-test6

Samba 3.0

Apache 2.0.48

This is not Freshmeat.ne guys, it's Freshmeat.psychic.

current gnome 2.x issues (any devels listening?). (4, Interesting)

Si (9816) | about 11 years ago | (#6919958)

No way to edge-flip to another desktop.

Thus no d'n'd windows across desktops. Pager sucks for this at 16x12.

Gnome-panel regularly poops out at shutdown.

Metacity? Feh. Bring back sawfish (and I mean updated!). The introduction of predictability has led to a sharp decrease in customisability.

I have on average 20 terminals open. If one dies (e.g. because it's a shell window on a machine not available from my current location at start-up), down go the others. This is wholly unacceptable. Because of this, I almost switched to KDE - but it only supports 16 desktops which is Fucking Lame. Excuse me.

Other than those few issues, Gnome (2.x) is very stable, reliable, and well-featured. Keep up the good work (and please attend to that terminal problem).

Re:current gnome 2.x issues (any devels listening? (5, Informative)

JanneM (7445) | about 11 years ago | (#6920044)

The Gnome-panel bug is a new one for me; filing a bug report would likely be very appreciated by the devels.

Sawfish: Just run it. There are some people hacking on it, I believe, so it should be maintained. And tell the sawfish devels if there is something you miss.

The terminal: They are all the same application with multiple windows; cuts down on resource use. Of course, if it dies, so do they all - that's the downside. You can, however, start a new terminal, explicitly stating that it should not be another instance in an existing gnome-terminal application:

gnome-terminal --disable-factory

That will give you an independent terminal instance that will not be affected. Of course, you pay by a bit higher total resource use, but that is probably worth it for you.

Re:current gnome 2.x issues (any devels listening? (1)

Si (9816) | about 11 years ago | (#6920142)

Thanks for the info.

I've tried running sawfish as the wm and for some reason gnome doesn't seem to like it. Can't explain more than that since it's been a while since I tried it (on gnome 2 w/ latest (at the time) sawfish), but basically gnome would forget that sawfish was supposed to be running.

I'll try the disable factory trick, that looks quite useful, thanks.

Also I'd like to be able to change the stupid little foot icon on the 'start' menu. That was easy enough in gnome 1.4, but seems to have been disabled (without hacking the installed gnome base) in 2.x

Re:current gnome 2.x issues (any devels listening? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920149)

you forgot to mention that it's harder to see your porno on your Gnome install... meaning you go down quicker as well...

You want more desktops, you got it (3, Informative)

Johan Veenstra (61679) | about 11 years ago | (#6920193)

Exit KDE

edit ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals

change:

[Desktops] ....
Number=4

into

[Desktops] ....
Number=32

restart KDE, voila.

Wrong logo (4, Informative)

asobala (563713) | about 11 years ago | (#6919967)

You know, this logo is the really old one. Any chance of slashdot changing it?

GNOME section icon (5, Interesting)

sfraggle (212671) | about 11 years ago | (#6919968)

The GNOME section icon is out of date: GNOME changed their logo about a year ago. I've done a new topic icon [soton.ac.uk] with the new logo if one of the slashdot editors is interested in putting it in.

GNOME 2 (4, Insightful)

nutshell42 (557890) | about 11 years ago | (#6919980)

From the article:

Unlike some other browsers, in Epiphany you will not find half a dozen ways to use tabs and manage cookies and bookmarks, as Epiphany is targeted towards the average user.

And IMHO that's the wrong approach. *Especially* for the less technically inclined it would be better to have as many different ways as possible to do something. If you look at usability studies they always say how the test persons all tried different things to do the required task and how half of them got stuck on the way and didn't know what to do. One thing Windows gets right is that there is always more than one way to reach your goal. (e.g. you can adjust the time by double clicking on the clock, by using the context menu of the clock, by using the control panel etc.)

Having one elegant solution is nice and appeals to the mathematician in us all but if you look at speech there are many different ways to express a thought, perhaps one is more elegant than the others but all may be correct and logical. (to go back to the clock example: user A thinks "I want to change the time, that should be possible by doing something with the clock thingy" but in user B's opinion it's "I want to change a setting, it should be in the control panel")

IMHO, GUIs should try to enable users to do things their way and therefore it's better to have as many approaches as possible for a task

jm2c

Re:GNOME 2 (1)

teslatug (543527) | about 11 years ago | (#6920169)

No it's not a good thing Windows does. You learn the multiple ways, and then when you want to do something you spend a few milliseconds thinking about which way to do it, and you don't always reach the same conclusion. By comparison, if there were only one way, you would learn it and you would be done with it. This approach is much cleaner in my opinion.

Gnome 2.4 Review (4, Informative)

the_pooh_experience (596177) | about 11 years ago | (#6919986)

So ARS Technica [arstechnica.com] has a fairly in depth review [arstechnica.com] of 2.4. Among other things, it includes:

Re:Gnome 2.4 Review (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920088)

Whoa, let's be careful out there. I accidentally clicked one of those links, thinking it was a slashdot comment, and was directed to a wholly unfamiliar externnal site, away from the nice and fun slashdot atmosphere we all love. Please add a final inane comment at the end of your future slashdot comments, to make it clear where the comment ends. Thank you.

Logo Change (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6919996)

Slashdot, you are so lame. Not only do you screw up the timing of *soon* to be announced software, you still persist in using the old logo. (penis.)

Slashdot's GNOME Logo (3, Informative)

jdub! (24149) | about 11 years ago | (#6919998)

I'm kinda surprised that Slashdot haven't updated the GNOME category logo, considering that it's been 18 months and three major releases since the logo change. :-)

Re:Slashdot's GNOME Logo (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920065)

That sounds an awful lot like work... I think you should try and formulate your request a bit differently to get it accepted by the slashdot editors. Say, make a funny animation of the new logo and the old logo battling it out on the slashdot homepage (the new one should obviously win), and then submit that.

Re:Slashdot's GNOME Logo (1)

Nodatadj (28279) | about 11 years ago | (#6920139)

If you file a bug report it just gets closed as "Not a bug ;-)"

Epiphany is bad choice of name (1)

quax (19371) | about 11 years ago | (#6920020)

I assume it is just a matter of time that the company E.pihany [epiphany.com] will challenge the name for the Gnome browser claiming a trademark infringement.

Taco Malda in Hospital... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920032)

"Cmdr Taco" Malda has rushed to hospital this morning when he tried to place a Gnome 2.4 up his ass.

Doctors on the scene said he was in stable condition, even tough along with the Gnome was found several screwdrivers, a snow globe, and a statue of liberty souvineer statuette...

MOD PARENT +100 (Funniest Thing In History) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920121)

bwahahahaha

new release - more bloat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920042)

I suppose it's nice that there's a new GNOME release in the works, but has anyone looked at their system utilization stats recently? Running a Linux distro with a 900-lb GUI like GNOME is a bit more hardware hungry than seems strictly necessary.

Did anyone notice... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920052)

Did anyone notice that the Gnome logo is old??

gnome logo (0, Redundant)

JamesHenstridge (14875) | about 11 years ago | (#6920055)

Is slashdot ever going to switch to use the logo that the Gnome project has been using for over a year? Surely people would be more likely to associate the new logo with the project.

GNOME: Armageddon (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920056)

dear reader the gnome armageddon has started,

first of all i want to clarify that this text was meant to be a source of information otherwise i wouldn't have spent so much time into writing it. belive me it took me a couple of days writing this text in a foreign language. even if you don't care at all for gnome, you may find some interesting information within this text that you like to read. please try to understand my points even if it's hard sometimes, otherwise you wake up one day and feel the need to switch to a different operating system.

on the following lines i'm trying to give you a little insight of the gnome [gnome.org] [gnome.org] community. the things that are going on in the back, the information that could be worth talking and thinking about.

many of us like the gnome desktop and some of us were following it since the beginning. gnome is a promising project because it's mostly written in C, easy to use, configurable and therefore fits perfectly into the philosophy of u*nix. only to name some of its advantages.

unfortunately these advantages changed with the recently new released version of gnome. the core development team somehow got the idea of targeting gnome to a complete different direction of users. the so called corporate desktop user. in other words they're targeting people that aren't familiar or experienced with desktop environments. usually business oriented people who are willing to pay money for getting gnome on their computers.

having this new target in mind, the core development team mostly under contract by companies like redhat [redhat.com] [redhat.com], ximian [ximian.com] [ximian.com] and sun [sun.com] [sun.com] decided to simplify the desktop as much as even possible by removing all its flexibility in favor of an easy clean simple interface to not confuse their new possible customers. so far the idea of a clean easy to use desktop is honourable.

some of the new ideas, features and implementations such as gconf [gnome.org] [gnome.org], an evil windows registry like system, new ordering of buttons and dialogs, the removal of 90%-95% of all visible preferences from the control center and applications, the new direction that gnome leads and the attitude of the core development team made a lot of users really unhappy. these are only a couple of examples and the list can easily be expanded but for now this is enough. now let me try to get deeper into these aspects.

you may imagine that users got really frustrated [osnews.com] [osnews.com] because their beloved gnome desktop matured into something they didn't want. during the time, the frustration of a not less amount of people increased. more [gnome.org] [gnome.org], more [gnome.org] [gnome.org] and more [gnome.org] [gnome.org] emails arrived on the gnome mailinglists where users tried to explain their concerns, frustrations and the leading target of GNOME.

but the core development team of gnome don't give a damn about what their users are thinking or wanting and most of the time they come up with their standard purl. the reply they give is mostly the same. users should either go and 'file a bug' at bugzilla [gnome.org] [gnome.org] or the user mails are being turned so far that at the end they sound like being trolls or the user feedback is simply not wanted. whatever happens the answers aren't really satisfying for the user. even constructive feedback [gnome.org] [gnome.org] isn't appreciated.

if you gonna think about this for a minute then things gonna harden that they are directing into the commercial area. the core development team actually don't care for the complaining home user. it's more important for them to reach the customers with the cash. it seems that this has been told to them by the company leaders. everything about gnome has been decided already, a way back or direct communication isn't possible. don't get trapped by sentences like 'we listen to our users'. they listen to you - yes, to make funny silly jokes about you afterwards.

i thought that everything was build up on friendship, build on programming for fun, build on understanding each other. but the reality looks like it's all for the big money. the cash is what matters everything else is a lie and a dream. time for people to wake up.

not long ago they threw one of the most important long year core developer martin baulig [gnome.org] [gnome.org] out of team. a guy who worked really hard on getting gnome into the right direction. a nice friendly person who put all his time into gnome. but narrow minded gnome elites such as havoc pennington [pair.com] [pair.com] were responsible that he left the gnome project. the trouble and the pressure that was put on him was to much.

with the new gnome desktop a lot of user interface changes happened such as button reordering [gnome.org] [gnome.org]. needless to say that this confuse people who are used to the 'right' button ordering for ages. even our fellow linux guru alan cox [gnome.org] [gnome.org] wasn't thrilled about this idea. but the gnome elites such as havoc pennington, seth nickell, calum benson and dave bordoley knew it better. why following the road of any other desktop that exists ? why not doing something that don't confuse their users and still stay usable ? well it seems to be too easy. gnome needs to be different than anything else so they changed the button order which was one of the reasons that users became unhappy. they said that there was a hard fight about this and the decision was made to change the buttons. but i belive they simply copied the behaviour of macos because most of the gnome developers use a macintosh as either laptop or desktop. sad that they forgot to keep in mind that users tend to mix applications and that this will lead into weird button searching and clicking.

but as if this wasn't enough the same people decided that the new gnome human interface guides [gnome.org] [gnome.org] were the ultima non plus ultra in human interface guides. the announcement contained informations that the kde usability people got initiated into it. unfortunately the kde people heard about it the first time [kde.org] [kde.org] when seth nickell went to the kde mailinglist which happened after the announcement. you can imagine that they got highly pissed off about this attitude. you can read more on this link [kde.org] [kde.org]. to summarize it, the kde people clarified that gnome should care for their own business.

the problem that came with the new interface guides was, that every little gnome hacker started to become an user interface expert over night. a lot of gnome programs that we like to use matured into a disaster over night. hackers that never programmed correctly for their life started to blindly follow the hype of simplification. for an example look what happened to galeon's interface [sourceforge.net] [sourceforge.net] (pay attention for the last paragraph). even philip langdale a long year galeon hacker got highly indignant by the target that gnome leads and wrote this email [sourceforge.net] [sourceforge.net] to the galeon mailinglist.

here another reason why users became angry. the elite assumes, that the user knows nothing about their system. you find a couple of heavily insulting mails on their mailing lists containing sentences like the quoted ones.

  • "the user don't know what a window manager is"
  • "the user don't know what themes are"
  • "the user don't know what a homedir is"
  • "the user can't compile a kernel"
  • "the user don't want to customize their desktop"
  • "the user shouldn't see preferences which purpose they don't know"
you may imagine that a lot of people are being offended by such lines because it's exactly these gnome users who are meant by these phrases. to read more such lines on the gnome mailinglists, simply click on this link [gnome.org] [gnome.org] and grep in their archives. be said that most of these sentences are coming from havoc pennington.

such evil practices shouldn't be tolerated by the users and need to be fighted. u*nix users aren't stupid people. who actually gave havoc pennington the rights to decide what the user wants and what not ? various users [gnome.org] [gnome.org] told him that people who use a u*nix like system are well aware of their capabilities dealing with such a complex system. there's a reason why people are switching from alternative operating systems. they want to learn, they want to use the full power of the system, they want to change everything they like.

to top all this, look at the future plans of nautilus [eazel.com] [eazel.com]. the current maintainers got the idea of changing the whole nautilus concepts into an object oriented user interface design. you may be highly interested in reading the exact words of alex larsson's vision for nautilus' future direction by clicking on this link [gnome.org] [gnome.org].

to summarize it, it's assumed that the user don't need to deal with his homedir or his whole filesystem because it may confuse him or because he don't understand it. the new concepts of nautilus should be that the user deal with symbols in the nautilus view. e.g. you get a cdrom symbol and by clicking on it you see the directory of your cdrom, you get a photo symbol and by clicking on it you get a list of all your pr0n pictures, you get a music symbol and by clicking on it you get a list of all your mp3's. you don't know where all these files are located because you don't deal with the bottom layer of your homedir or filesystem anymore as mentioned earlier.

the question is why are people that know nothing about their users, that know nothing about correct user interface design destroying gnome ? the users don't deserve all this specially those that backed gnome for all the years. even sun threw a bunch of so called user interface experts together and have them work on gnome. don't forget that sun are the creators of the common desktop environment [opengroup.org] [opengroup.org]. we don't need another cde clone named gnome. even havoc pennington author of the good user interfaces [pair.com] [pair.com] text isn't able to get his own written software following his rules.

not long ago there was an report about the 'two captains of nautilus' where the reporter (uraeus a gnome contributor himself) reported alexander larsson and david camp. you may imagine that such a report can't be taken serious because it's done by their own people. we here have a saying that sounds like this 'one crow doesn't hack the eye of another crow out'. now you can click on this link [gnomedesktop.org] [gnomedesktop.org] and read more. it may be interesting to read the replies from various users all over the globe of what they think about gnome and nautilus in general (please pay attention to the listed ip's there). another nice and informative reading can be found by clicking on this link [gnomedesktop.org] [gnomedesktop.org].

the fileselector problem was a long discussed issue in the gnome community. finally they came to an solution for this and have decided to go for this [coreyo.net] [coreyo.net] ugly fileselector instead going for this one [wanadoo.nl] [wanadoo.nl] which was developed by a free volunteer for a long time and in general looks and behaves better.

most users have no problems with the idea of keeping things simple and clean. removing some not needed preferences was indeed a good idea but it doesn't stop. people started to remove everything from their apps. you're forced to use dubious programs like gconf-editor which basically works like the windows registry editor, to tweak uncommented preferences. i don't think that this is an advantage. even the possibility to tweak preferences with an editor was taken away with that ugly implementation of gconf. all your preferences are stored in a directory tree with an unknown amount of *.xml files. even if you delete programs their keys are still remaining orphaned in these trees and finding them is like playing trivia. at the end it's worth a discussion if a system driven by a single home user needs such a registry like system. we didn't need such a system for over 30 years but the gnome development team got the idea copying one of the most retarded systems from windows to u*nix. not to mention that the copy is more retarded than the original.

it's a shame to see how such a nice desktop got thrown into the trash by such people. but there is a lot more behind the scenes that i don't know about. everything around gnome is a big marketing strategy. poor people are working the hell out of gnome for nothing and companies such as those mentioned above are getting the big cash. for sure you could say - go and fork gnome - but seriously how can you go and fork gnome ? such a big project which needs a bunch of people to keep the code alive and compatible. well you know it's all about open source the code is signed under the gnu/gpl or gnu/lgpl, you can't own it. even the companies are aware of this. but if you can't own the code - go and hire their developers. you can direct them like puppets in any direction that you - as company - like. exactly this is happening with gnome.

well you could easily come up and tell me to simply not use gnome and let them do whatever they like. well, you are right with that but things are more complicated nowadays. gnome is influencing a lot of third party projects such as xfree86 which recently added a lot of gnome components into their cvs repository. please know that with the next coming xfree86 version you get a lot of gnome components without even knowing it. code like, gnome-xml [xmlsoft.org] [xmlsoft.org], pkgconfig [freedesktop.org] [freedesktop.org], fontconfig [fontconfig.org] [fontconfig.org], xcursor and xft2 were mainly written by people who're heavily involved into gnome development. also the gimp is maturing more and more into getting the look and feel of a native gnome application. the cvs version of the gimp has a lot of gnome pixmaps inside and they are heavily working on integrate the gimp into gnome. if not today but the direction is sure and i fear the day this gonna happen.

it's ok that these things exist and it's ok to see xfree86 and the gimp are beeing hacked on. but please think about the people that don't like or use gnome. what about them ? why force them to have gnome components installed on their systems ? why can't gnome go the same way that kde went e.g. doing their own stuff without infecting other projects like aids. seeing more and more libraries and applications that were in no way related to gnome jumping on the pkgconfig boat which's really not needed. look what will happen to solaris, the world famous operating system on u*nix used by big companies and long years experts. they really plan to replace cde with gnome. i know that cde wasn't the best invention of desktops but it rarely crashed and it fits far better into the philosophy of xfree86 with their configuration system than gnome. you know the good old way having your settings defined with .xdefaults and all nice default configurations are going into /etc/x11/app-defaults/ and so on. understandable that the good old way may be blocking the future of applications for multiusersystems - but why must it have to be a windows registry like system that replaces future configuration ?

well to come to an end i personally don't like many of this stuff. i can't stand the button reordering, i don't like the gconf system and even more i don't like the commercial outsourcing of gnome and the bad influence that gnome has on other applications. the bad attitude of some gnome developers is another story since we are all different reacting humans. luckily there are people sharing some of my thoughts otherwise i wouldn't be able to proof my text with so many links. even amongst the gnome developers there are silent voices of people that hate many of these decisions and silently use something else. right now if you checkout the gnome cvs repository every day you find out that the whole gnome development seemed to came to an halt. the contributions to their cvs are poor. while projects such as kde are reaching easily 10-20k commits per month - gnome is getting around 1-2k per month on it's best times. it really looks like the situation of gnome is unclear so it would be better to have it not influence so much other programs or at the end we deal with an disaster.

now i hope this text was informative for you. i hope that you start to think about the situation and the global direction. the situation of gnome is unclear, their target is groggy too since i can't belive that the users that they are targeting ever heard of u*nix or linux. they plan to get out of the 0.05% desktop niche but this will for sure not happen if they continue their current direction and their bad ugly attitude

Worst problems of Gnome (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920058)

They dumbed down nautilus. What Nautilus needs is tabbing and splitting like konqueror has.

There still is no common compound document model between kde and gnome.

Besides that, Gnome has become excellent. Congratulations to the developers.

Hmmm (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920104)

I hope it's better than 2.2

For all practical purposes, KDE3 won the war. I liked some of the stuff of Gnome, but the fact that it's filled with scads of unsupported apps from the Gnome 1.x days, and these apps DO NOT respond to the Gnome Config tool, makes the desktop inconsistent and ugly. KDE wins hands down, even the older apps are 'well-behaved' when it comes to configurations

Printing? I hope Gnome fixed that. Printing from Konqueror is a snap, from Galeon, gads, I hope you can figure it out.

Gnome 2.2 left me totally in the cold, and the complaints over KDE being slow were fixed massively in 3.1.1. Half the Gnome 2 apps seem to totally ignore Gnome Config settings.

Sorry folks, but I'm almost a KDE believer now. Gnome needs a lot of fixing.

( And while they aren't Gnome apps, can anyone tell me how to ENLARGE the UI font sizes in the gimp? 10pt doesn't cut it when running at 1280x1024! And PLEASE put a button in Mozilla to configure the UI font, or set it up to listen to KDE/Gnome config, so I don't have to look around for an obscure webpage on setting up userconfig.css to modify it! It's been out for 3+ years now! Fix it! )

We want sawfish back! (2, Informative)

chendo (678767) | about 11 years ago | (#6920116)

I had some bad experiences with 2.3.5, which caused me to just go and reformat and reinstall again (had too much junk on drives too).

One major problem I noticed was that Sawfish wasn't working properly with the pager. Every time I tried to change workspaces, the windows go flying all over the place. And with metacity, I can't seem to position my shaded XMMS window above the empty space in the top panel.

And does anyone know if somebody's doing/done the ebuild for 2.4?

And on another note: My first article on /.! w00t!

FUCK YOU (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920118)

Did anyone notice that the logo is old???

Great discussion of GUIs (5, Insightful)

elliotj (519297) | about 11 years ago | (#6920135)

You gotta love Ars. The first few paragraphs describe in layman's terms why Windows and the Mac have consistent GUIs and why Linux does not. I hope the main drivers of Linux desktop adoption (the Gnomes, KDEs & Red Hats of the world) pay very close attention to the implications of this message. It's been said many times, but warrants repeating again: Linux desktop adoption is suffering from a lack of consistency across applications.

from the seldon-plan dept. (2, Funny)

Matias D'Ambrosio (609229) | about 11 years ago | (#6920162)

That does make it a lot clearer why we are talking of the 2.4 release before gnome.org
While I'm at it... I welcome our new Second Foundation overlords!

gnome for osx (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920176)

anyone know if anyone is developing a native port to osx for gnome or kde?

Development tool in Gnome (1)

Mr_Silver (213637) | about 11 years ago | (#6920201)

Quick question, I use nedit [nedit.org] as the development tool of choice and whilst it's really nice - it's look and feel isn't the Gnome standard.

Is there any alternative which fits in nicely with my desktop and has similar functionality to nedit?

FUCK All SLASHDOT MODERATORS and Anderson Cooper (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6920202)

FUCK ALL OF YOU...

Slashdot Moderators can suck my dick... or Anderson Cooper's dick...

SLASHDOT: Totally fucking irrelevant..

Nautilus (1)

LittleLebowskiUrbanA (619114) | about 11 years ago | (#6920212)

Maybe Nautilus will provide a little competition for Konqueror. Hopefully something has been done to speed up its start-up time and web browsing. I tried Gnome a couple of months ago and its speed and simplicity surprised me but Nautilus needs some work compared to Konqueror.
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