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GeForce FX Architecture Explained

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the kicking-the-tires dept.

Graphics 185

Brian writes "3DCenter has published one of the most in-depth articles on the internals of a 3D graphics chip (the NV30/GeForce FX in this case) that I've ever seen. The author has based his results on a patent NVIDIA filed last year and he has turned up some very interesting relevations regarding the GeForce FX that go a long way to explain why its performance is so different from the recent Radeons. Apparently, optimal shader code for the NV30 is substantially different from what is generated by the standard DX9 HLSL compiler. A new compiler may help to some extent, but other performance issues will likely need to be resolved by NVIDIA in the driver itself."

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185 comments

Dick (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939665)

Dick was obsessed with his dick.
He would beat off at least three times a day:
In the morning, when he woke up,
Right after or right before dinner,
Or right before he went to sleep.
If he didn't get in his three daily beat-off sessions,
He was a pain in the ass to be around.
He jerked off to tv-
Especially I Dream of Jenie and Dynasty and Charlie's Angels;
He pulled his pud to porno books;
He even jerked off
To the underwear ads
In the magazine section of the Sunday New York Times.
If you were a girl, talking to him on the phone,
Chances are he was beating his meat to the sound of your voice.
'Cause coming was his raison d'etre.
One time he was in the middle of jerking off to Vanna White on Wheel of Fortune
When a job offer came to him over the phone
And he needed the job bad
But he told the man he'd call him right back,
'Cause he needed to come more than he needed the job.
It wasn't that he was ugly or afraid of women or anything like that
He just honestly preferred his right hand.
I saw him the other day,
And he told me that last friday he was with two girls at their place
And they both wanted him to stay over.
But he went home,
Called up another girl,
and jacked off while talking to her.
I don't know why he tells me this stuff.
Dick's a fucked up guy.

Re:Dick (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939703)

i have adate tonight with a bitch.
ive got her virgin

Re:Dick (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939724)

you sperm so dirty with sand in the beach.
you so shit,shit,shit,shit you

go to deep hell

Re:Dick (-1, Troll)

sllim (95682) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940302)

Just wan't to point out that this looser doesn't have an original bone in his body.

These are the lines to a King's Missile song.

BIG WHOOP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939669)

First POST! Been trying for years... finally got one!

Re:BIG WHOOP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939679)

Keep trying, loser.

Re:BIG WHOOP (-1, Offtopic)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939682)

Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame*.

*idiocy

Re:BIG WHOOP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939741)

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Re:BIG WHOOP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939809)

MM""""""""`M_M""MMMMM""M_MM'""""'YMM_M""MMMMM""M_M
MM__mmmmmmmM_M__MMMMM__M_M'_.mmm._`M_M__MMMM'_.M_M
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MM__MMMMMMMM_Mb_______dM_MM._____.dM_M__MMMMM__M_M
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____________##__mmmm._`M_M__M_Mmmm__mmmM_M'_.mmm._ `M_M__MMMMM__MM
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____________M#_______.;M_M__M_MMMM__MMMM_MM._____. dM_M__MMMMM__MM
____________M#########M__MMMM_MMMMMMMMMM_MMMMMMMMM MM_MMMMMMMMMMMM

Re:BIG WHOOP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940098)

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RECTAL COMPUTING? (-1, Offtopic)

magister707 (445089) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939676)

PUMP ME FULL OF GIGAFLOPS!@#

I agree with this post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939827)

YOUR GIGA FLOPS MEGA HERTZ HAHA

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

LOOK SERIOUSLY JUST JIGGLE MY FUCKING TITS YOU NIG (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939868)

You think I'm joking? I'm not. Jiggle them all night. Jiggle them while pouring fucking Wolf Brand chili all over them and letting purple-assed monkeys suck it off. You don't think they like chili? Ask a fucking monkey if he likes chili. Fucking babboons have neon colored assholes sticking out of them and you don't think they like chili? Jiggle my tits with cream cheese. Suck it. You can't jiggle my tits and put together a hot dog with the works at the same time. You want the works? You want the works but you get the squirts. Squirt fucking mustard all over me if you can. You might get everything except my tits because they're jiggling so fast none will stick. Use some fucking pickle relish and the monkeys can shit that chili in my hair while I'm screaming calling 1 800 345 1515 and asking for the 30' long inflatable grape waxer.

Catholic schoolgirls (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940257)

Mmm... lift that skirt and smell the fresh teen pussy...

Say what (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939680)

performance is so different from

Is that the politically correct way of saying "performance sucks"?

Re:Say what (5, Insightful)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939699)

haha yea I guess so. It'll be awhile before it's considered "okay" for any sort of media to say that an nVidia board has sucky performance.

It keeps getting excused away by "archetecture changes" or "early driver issues" or "the full moon."

Go go ATI! You brought competition back to the consumer 3D board scene, thank you!

Re:Say what (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939866)

The fun thing about HL-2 is it'll likely be the first game where you WON'T have to install a patch or updated Catalyst driver to actually play it with your ATI. WOOT. Go driver development...

Re:Say what (0)

fodi (452415) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940037)

I'd mod you up, but I've got bad karma, from saying stupid shit all the time...

Re:Say what (4, Insightful)

robbyjo (315601) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939764)

Know that there are many ways to do one thing and there are pros and contras in each of them. In this case, it seems that NVidia's is not chosen and the way DX9 handles things undermines NVidia's method. It's not necessarily because NVidia sucks. Remember that there are politic struggles among Microsoft, NVidia, and ATI during the inception of DX9? I think NVidia now falls victim of it.

Re:Say what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939801)

True, but you can hardly blame Microsoft for the very OEM-unfriendly "Double-Wide" card design.

Re:Say what (2, Insightful)

dieman (4814) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939834)

I agree, this sounds like a big ati vs nvidia brewhaha with microsoft choosing who they want by getting both of them to get the crap 'in silicon' and then choosing which standard to use.

It sounds like a monopolist helping out whoever they want to and then making the 'other guys' get screwed. Suck.

Re:Say what (1)

pVoid (607584) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939980)

correction!!! Your post should read:

I agree, this sounds like a big brewhaha between ati, nvidia and microsoft

I remember not so long ago how Rambus was the black sheep. And how Intel was the maker of the new evil Rambus. Well, did you know that AMD was part of the companies that helped define Rambus?

This is business boys... not kindergarten. In this arena, bending down to get the soap gets you an ass load. It's reality. Face it. As linus said, Grow up.

Ohh, I feel so proud to apply my first propaganda [propagandacritic.com] technique [propagandacritic.com] , thanks to SilentMajority's [slashdot.org] post.

Re:Say what (1)

gfody (514448) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940042)

you really need linus to help you say "grow up"? poor guy gets his words pulled out've context for just about anything these days.

Re:Say what (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940320)

Wrong Linus. If he'd used the full quote it would have been clear, "Grow up, Charlie Brown."

I can see why he didn't though, no one really does that. Especially using the last name too. That is just way too melodramatic, and unrealistic.

Re:Say what (3, Informative)

afidel (530433) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940283)

Basically it comes down to MS partnered with Nvidia for DX8 and XBox-1, Nvidia asked MS to use some KY so MS chose ATI for DX9 and XBox-2.

p.s.
If you don't get this, MS was losing money on the XBox for a long time, some analysts say they still are, to minimize those losses they asked Nvidia to take a hit on the contract terms for the XBox hardware agreement, Nvidia being a relitivly small company said no thanks and that effectivly ended their relationship for now.

Re:Say what (5, Funny)

jjeffries (17675) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940035)

> Know that there are many ways to do one thing and there are pros and contras in each of them.

Lucky for me, I have 100 lives!
Up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-B-A-select(I have a brother)-start

Re:Say what (1)

Bradee-oh! (459922) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940064)

> Lucky for me, I have 100 lives!

I am so honored to actually get this post and hope that at least 4 +1 funny mods also get it. I tip my hat to you, sir.

Re:Say what (0, Offtopic)

Worminater (600129) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940176)

mmm the great kanomi code

Ninja Turtles II man

God i owned

i saved april o'neil so many times

she never bowed down:-p

Re:Say what (1)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939788)

"Is that the politically correct way of saying "performance sucks"?"

That's not quite how I read it. I read it as "for the money, you can get a lot more performance. Games optimized for it will scream, tho..."

I guess it's hard to say its performance sucks if it plays today's games just fine anyway.

Re:Say what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940186)

I guess it's hard to say its performance sucks if it plays today's games just fine anyway.

Except that it gets a whopping (approx.) 10 fps in the new Half-Life 2 benchmarks released by Valve. (And keep in mind, this game's coming out in the very near future.)

It may play games prior to this point finely, but for the money and price, ATI's cards will run these games just fine as well as the next generation of games.

But can you hack a GeForce like you can hack Radeo (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939689)

Nothing beats my 9500 to 9700 card. Its a simple driver hack. Now my lowly 130$ budget card can whoop any GeforceFX garbage. Plus the overclockability after its a 9700. You just dont get any sweeter.

Re:But can you hack a GeForce like you can hack Ra (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939856)

What I meant to say was that my ATI card really fills my "AGP Slot". Any of you who are Mac users can touch my "Video card".

Hugs & Kisses! XOXOXOXO

Re:But can you hack a GeForce like you can hack Ra (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939905)

Wow, a driver hack that magically transforms older 3.x ns memory to 3.0 or faster memory AND can still overclock. The number of visual artifacts must be astounding and a sight to see.

Re:But can you hack a GeForce like you can hack Ra (0)

fodi (452415) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940078)

so, you payed full price for a 9700?

Re:But can you hack a GeForce like you can hack Ra (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940266)

Some of us prefer to reward the manufacturer of quality goods with the money they deserve. We also know how to spell "paid".

Fuck you and your hacks.

+5 insightful, I love you guys (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940067)

Wow, I didnt expect my Anonymous Coward to get modded up. That really warms my heart that slashdot crowd listened to me for once. I might have to sign up for a real account now.

As for you haters out there. It has nothing to do with the memory speeds, memory can be overclocked independently of the core. And no my Infineon 3.3 does not overclock to much. As for the hack itself, it involves opening up all 8 pipelines, as opposed to the 4 default in the 9500. Core can be overclocked trough the roof :)Check out ocfaq.com/softmod for more info.

Re:+5 insightful, I love you guys (1)

MoThugz (560556) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940313)

ATI still sucks because they are still a MS whore... even you "hack" is for Windows only.

Re:But can you hack a GeForce like you can hack Ra (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940091)

Well you can make the GeForce a nVidia Quadro and gain additional OpenGL functionality you generally won't need :-) Although, speed will stay at the same level.

Damn (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939690)

I wanted specifications for the Phoenix and 7ZARK7

relevations? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939698)

"he has turned up some very interesting relevations regarding the GeForce FX".

"he has turned up some very interesting rasing or lifting up regarding the GeForce FX" ?

probly revelations would be better.

Re:relevations? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939766)

Probably even better if you spelled "probably".

Re:relevations? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939889)

don't forget "rasing".

Re:relevations? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939997)

probly is a common contraction of probably - ass.

Re:relevations? (1)

Mooncaller (669824) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940280)

Then it's prob'ly prob'ly. 'Course, I'm in no shape to be critisizin' anyones spellin'.

maybe, just maybe... (5, Funny)

PoPRawkZ (694140) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939715)

someone programmed the shaders to work with glide... i can't help hoping 3Dfx will perform some voodoo and ressurrect from nVidia's ashes. excuse me now, i must go stroke my voodoo5

Re:maybe, just maybe... (1)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939733)

maybe they are, and that's why nvidia has sucky performance.

Re:maybe, just maybe... (2, Funny)

rootofevil (188401) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939740)

thats fine, just point it away from me.

3dcenter.org is not registered? (0)

dgp (11045) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939735)

Did cowboyneal even try to load the URL?
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/cinefx/index _e.php
www.3dcenter.org does not resolve and whois shows no registration for 3dcenter.org. googling for 3dcenter shows no entry that looks like the right site.

Re:3dcenter.org is not registered? (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939748)

Err, I don't know what's up with your DNS... but the links work just fine to me. It appears to be a mostly-German site, though the article linked to was translated into English.

Re:3dcenter.org is not registered? (1)

Indy1 (99447) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939880)

your dns blows dude :) Time to stop using win2k server's dns (which blows chunks, i know - i've run it in the past before i came to the light errr linux).

For the record and the karma, dig shows...

dig 3dcenter.org

DiG 9.2.2rc1 -> 3dcenter.org
global options: printcmd
Got answer:
HEADER opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 33775
flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2

QUESTION SECTION: ;3dcenter.org. IN A

ANSWER SECTION:
3dcenter.org. 86400 IN A 217.160.135.91

AUTHORITY SECTION:
3dcenter.org. 86400 IN NS ns18.schlund.de.
3dcenter.org. 86400 IN NS ns17.schlund.de.

ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns17.schlund.de. 86400 IN A 195.20.224.120
ns18.schlund.de. 86400 IN A 212.227.123.14

Re:3dcenter.org is not registered? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939995)

Shut the fuck up you idiot! The answer is perfectly well explained in the post [slashdot.org] right after yours...

Has nothing to do with your insecure penile size replacement of an OS.

Re:3dcenter.org is not registered? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939924)

By default "whois" won't show registration for ANY .org's--remember, .org has a different registrar now, and whois uses "whois.internic.net" by default, which only serves .com and .net. For .org, you need to do a query at whois.pir.org:

whois 3dcenter.org@whois.pir.org

Re:3dcenter.org is not registered? (1)

dgp (11045) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940009)

i did not know that. thanks for the info. also, the hostname suddenly started resolving. weird.

Sad news ... Stephen King dead at 55 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939745)


I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

Are you sure? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939772)

I looked around on some other news sites and can't find any mention of it, is this a scoop for slashdot?

I am so sad if this is true. He was my favourite author. :-(

Re:Are you sure? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939830)

You must be new here.

Here's the real story: (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939746)

Experience:

GeForce FX is really noisy

Explanation:

It sucks in large amounts of air to keep it cool. This is one of two ways a GeForce FX sucks. The other way is beyond the scope of this post.

And here's the proper explanation (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939964)

The original GeForce FX cards were noisy because the fan cowling was misdesigned and the fan blades rubbed upon it. The later versions have fixed this problem, and thus no longer sound like a leaf blower.

Re:And here's the proper explanation (1)

gfody (514448) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940066)

thus no longer sound like a leaf blower

now they only look like one

3 Nvidia Articles?!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939758)

man, 3 nvidia releated articles posted in the same day? they must be "donating" some money to slashdot or something... pretty soon its going to say "Nvidia: The way its ment to be seen" under the Slashdot logo instead of news for nerds stuff that matters.

Re:3 Nvidia Articles?!! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939808)

Yes, it's common practice to pay websites to post articles about why your product sucks. Don't let anyone tell you that the bad press might possibly hurt business, that's a lie.

[OT] Still no FOSS drivers (2)

sould (301844) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939761)

Bah!

Not interested in anything NVidia do or say until they strile some agreement with the people who'se IP they license for their drivers & Open them...

2 Years since I bought my Geforce & I still cant have 3D accelleration, tv out and framebuffer all working at once.

I wonder what a structured classroom approach... (5, Interesting)

tloh (451585) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939777)

Weird timing. I'm currently writing code for a class on microcontrollers. Most electrical engineering students would at some time come across an advanced digital course on microprocessors where one learns about different machine architectures and how to write assembly code for them. Are there any /.ers who have systematically studies GPU chips as part of a class, like say on graphic algorithms or DSP?

Re:I wonder what a structured classroom approach.. (2, Informative)

mmp (121767) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939877)

Sure, there are classes completely about the architecture of graphics hardware here and there. The slides for each of these two classes on graphics hardware are excellent.

Owens @ UC Davis [ucdavis.edu]

Akeley and Hanrahan @ Stanford [stanford.edu]

Re:I wonder what a structured classroom approach.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939945)

IMO, undergrads are barely taught how simple general purpose RISC chips work. Things like real-world I/O and priviledged modes aren't really covered that much. This is somewhat understandable as it is very unlikly one would be working as a CPU/DSP/GPU designer without an MS or PhD.

Lies! (4, Funny)

zapp (201236) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939797)

Does the FX architecture involve cheating on benchmarks? :)

Re:Lies! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939838)

Yeah, they disected an old ATI and found out how they were cheating on Q3 numbers so they figured they'd better join the race and start cheating.

Flush! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939844)

I want an nvidia card in my toilet so I can view the turds, urine, and used toilet paper in the bowel on a 3d display.

On the other hand... (3, Interesting)

La Temperanza (638530) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939858)

NVidia has much better Linux drivers then ATI. Support 'em.

Re:On the other hand... (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939898)

But why would you want a DX9 card for Linux? A Geforce4 Ti would be a lot cheaper and still get excellent OpenGL performance.

Re:On the other hand... (1)

INMCM (209310) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939904)

No, I think I'd rather play Half-Life 2 at a nice, crisp framrate on my 9700 Pro.

Re:On the other hand... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939942)

Don't forget to keep a spare Nvidia on hand so that you can play DOOM 3

Re:On the other hand... (1, Flamebait)

marcushnk (90744) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939960)

If it comes down to a choice of (and it probably will do..):

Linux support and Native port of Doom3
or
Shocking linux support and dual boot just to play half life 2...

Then Screw Halflife 2, Microsoft and ATI, I'll do without any of them easily.. Give me NV, ID and Tux any day..

Re:On the other hand... (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939939)

The sole reason I bought Nvidia was that it had native drivers for FreeBSD. My first instinct was to go with a card that has a fully open driver in XFree86. But very few "modern" cards do. So I went with the company that actually supports my OS.

That reminds me. I need to go purchase Opera to let them know I appreciate them as well...

But ATI Linux drivers are getting better... (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940203)

ATI is getting serious with its Linux support from what I saw.

Re:On the other hand... (1)

curtlewis (662976) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940233)

If I had a blind drunk, I'd have a better driver than ATI.

ATI has historically made good hardware that was crippled by buggy, poorly written, limited drivers.

They still have yet to convince me to buy an ATI product. They seem to be having a good run at the moment, but given their many years of incompetence, I'm sure this will pass as quickly as it came to be.

One assumption is probably wrong (5, Interesting)

hbog (463004) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939860)

From the article - "Because of the length of the pipeline and the latencies of sampling textures it is possible that the pipeline is full before the first quad reaches its end. In this case the Gatekeeper has to wait as long as is takes the quad to reach the end. Every clock cycle that passes means wasted performance then. An increased number of quads in the pipeline lowers the risk of such pipeline stalls."

I understand that the article writers are trying to come up with reasons that the Nvidia part is wasting performance, but this doesn't make sense. No architect in this right mind would ever design a pipeline that becomes full before the first instruction can exit. The means that you are fetching much faster than you are retiring instructions. That means you will always have a pipeline stall at the frontend and you will always be wasting cycles. I think the designers would have checked something like that. You can't afford pipeline stalls to happen regularly.

Re:One assumption is probably wrong (1)

Delifisek (190943) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940274)

Hmmm I remember Intel has same or sameting like that problem (AKA LongPipeline) on early PIV. I remember these days AMD beats intel in any condition. Then Intel jumps 478 form factor and push limits above 2 ghz Problem ends....

Blantantly Off-topic (1)

INMCM (209310) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939872)

I'd would just like to add that Matrox cards have by far the best image qaulity in 2d-land. Maybe 3d-land as well. They are slower, but still snazzy.

Re:Blantantly Off-topic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939886)

That and they acquired ATI's old driver developers - nothing works right at launch time and updates add more problems than they fix...

Re:Blantantly Off-topic (2, Insightful)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939934)

Maybe I'm just blind, but I can't tell the difference between my Matrox G400 Max, ELSA Gladiac 920 (nVidia GF3), and ATI 9700 Pro. IBM P260 Monitor.

Matrox may have had an advantage a while back, but it's nothing conclusive now days.

Re:Blantantly Off-topic (1)

gfody (514448) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940106)

could be your monitor.. matrox cards do use high end components in their filters/dacs that do produce the best signal for CRTs. I've seen lots of best case vs. worse case graphics on STNR for matrox vs. noname ati/nvidia mfg and its pretty substantial. of course if your using an LCD its not even applicable.

Re:Blantantly Off-topic (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940171)

My monitor good, or my monitor bad? It's a trinitron crt.

Of course, ELSA wasn't exactly no-name - bunch of Germans that want bankrupt rather than cheating on the assembly. And I don't think ATI (built) ever had 2D quality issues.

Re:Blantantly Off-topic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940105)

Wow, when is this old myth gonna die anyways?

Anand tells the tale (2, Informative)

Bob-o-Matic! (620698) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939895)

Anandtech's article clearly shows that ATI's DX9 totally pwnz0rz nVidia's. And probably will at least until nv40 is released.

ATI 9x owners rejoice, indeed! Even the budget 9200 smokes the 5600 Ultra!

Re:Anand tells the tale (2, Interesting)

Bob-o-Matic! (620698) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939903)

damn-- too much sierra nevada pale ale... hosed the hyperlink to the article [anandtech.com]

Re:Anand tells the tale (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939927)

Smokes it in what? A game that's not even out on the shelves yet? Oh yeah, there's a fact that gamers can relish in - "My card may not beat your card in , but just wait until HL-2, my card will 0wnz j00".

Re:Anand tells the tale (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940232)

9200 doesn't do DX9 tho' so it's not a fair comparison.

Linux Drivers (4, Informative)

maizena (640458) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939922)

In the Windows(argh) world I really couldn't care less about what card to use.
ATI or NVIDIA, it's just a matter of taste and/or faith.

But in the Linux world NVIDIA still rules.
And it's not that NVIDIA's cards are better, but they at least have a descent Linux driver.

The bottom line is: "If you use Linux, the best choice still is a NVIDIA card!"

LinVidia card? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939952)

Had to suggest it.

Re:Linux Drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6939972)

descent - great game, used to play it on my 486

decent - the correct spelling

Re:Linux Drivers (2)

gotr00t (563828) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940104)

Don't forget that the Open Source DRI 3D acceleration has indeed come in the last year alone, and most people use them for their ATI Radeons that ATI did not make Linux drivers for. About a year ago, I bought an ATI Radeon 7500 PCI, and I couldn't use it at all because of the fact that there were no suitable Linux drivers for it (DRI only supported AGP at that time, I think), and just two months ago, I decided to check it out again, and with the new 4.3 version of XFree86, 3D acceleration works perfectly, though it is after this card has been left unused for over 10 months.

All I heard was BLAH BLAH BLAH Nvidia sucks (1)

rufusdufus (450462) | more than 10 years ago | (#6939951)

I bought nVidia 5 times in a row, so really I find it quite cool to be back to ATI. I was worried the competition in the market was over.

The key thing ATI did besides great cost/performance was get drivers out the door that didnt totally suck. For the first time in memory I have the original video driver and am not forced to download a patch!

Good job ATI!

Re:All I heard was BLAH BLAH BLAH Nvidia sucks (2, Insightful)

TrancePhreak (576593) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940065)

Sounds like you forgot to play games. I know at least Never Winter Nights is still not working well, as well as a few other games as of late.
http://www.rage3d.com

Re:All I heard was BLAH BLAH BLAH Nvidia sucks (1)

rufusdufus (450462) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940124)

NWN id my main game! no problems at all here so far.

A friend and I (1)

symbolic (11752) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940001)

...found out the hard way that just because something has a more recent model number, in no way makes it a better product. After suffering through the miserable peformance of the 5200fx, and even the 5600fx, we came to the conclusion that NVidia should have just skipped the NV stuff and applied that effort to something more worthwhile. I ended up with a TI4200, and my friend ended up with a Radeon card, and as far as I'm concerned, most of the fx line just plain sucks.

Re:A friend and I (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940307)

...found out the hard way that just because something has a more recent model number, in no way makes it a better product.

Perhaps what you found out the hard way was that you should have spent 5-10 minutes looking for reviews of those cards, noting how they performed, and then making your decision.

"Optimization" the NVidia way (1)

Animats (122034) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940071)

If it belongs to a group of selected programs nVidia considers important, the driver already contains an optimized version of (the shader) which is used instead. All other shaders are handled as-is.

I'd like to see that list.

Their bias is showing (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6940081)

I couldn't help get past 3D Center's not-so-subtle editorializing.

From the article:
Die CineFX Pipeline[!] (emphasis added)

Er, oh wait, it's in German as well...

GeforceFX (5, Interesting)

BigFootApe (264256) | more than 10 years ago | (#6940324)

This article seems to reiterate what everyone has been saying (Carmack, Valve, everyone). The GeforceFX architecture can only be made competitive for 3d engines using modern shaders with herculean effort. This is to be competitive, not dominantly superior.

Honestly, I thought nVidia learned their lesson with the NV1 - don't make weird hardware.

Now, what has to be making GeforceFX owners worried is Gabe Newell's warning that the new Detonator drivers might be making illegitimate 'optimizations' and, furthermore, covering them up by rendering high quality screen captures.
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