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Anti-Spammers DDoSed Out Of Existence

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the calls-for-punitive-measures dept.

Spam 677

Anonumous Coward writes "Not one, but two anti-spam services announced their closure yesterday due to DDoS attacks, massive Joe jobs, threats, and the total lack of interest shown by law enforcement. monkeys.com pulled the plug at midnight with an announcement that makes you think of a suicide note. Short time later compu.net went the very same way. So, when will we see a distributed RBL that can stand up to distributed attacks?"

cancel ×

677 comments

Midnight? (0)

jdavidb (449077) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044723)

They must've been really broken up in that note ... they got midnight confused with noon.

Re:Midnight? (1)

leonardluen (211265) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044870)

we live on a sphere meaning it is always midnight somewhere...

DOS is out of existence? (0, Funny)

jargoone (166102) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044725)

Crap! No more WordPerfect 5.0!

distributed.net rides again? (4, Interesting)

ansak (80421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044729)

Is there a way to use the technology behind distributed.net or SETI@Home for this kind of application?

just wondering...ank

Re:distributed.net rides again? (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044758)

You mean creating a distributed RBL list? That might work and would alleviate some of the problems with DDOS attacks, but Distributed.net and SETI@Home technologies are really designed for distributed _processing_, and RBLs are just not that processer intensive. I suspect that we will start seeing more distributed RBL type lists in the future though, it's about the only defense one has against massive zombie based DDOS attacks.

Re:distributed.net rides again? (4, Interesting)

ansak (80421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044859)

Yeah. I thought it was restricted to calculation, but perhaps there's something in the way of thinking that got us to distributed.net and SETI@Home that could help us get a distributed RBL (dare I say, "DRBL"?).

How about a DNS name that resolves to one of 20 (50? 100? 1000?) different machines all of which are kept synchronized between themselves with RBL lists. Anyone who asks for RBL information, gets any one of the machines in the cluster. Including the DDOSers. How many machines can they DDOS simultaneously? (that's why I kept cranking up that number in the first parentheses) Not all of them, I hope, but the way to find out is to build up a DRBLnet. There has to be a positive use for all those Linux/BSD boxes attached to DSL and cable lines :).

Then if the RBL-client side is modified so that if it doesn't get a response very quickly it asks again (probably getting a machine that isn't currently being attacked...).

just spouting ideas...ank

Excellent idea! (5, Interesting)

DukeyToo (681226) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044849)

Thats actually an *excellent* idea. Not really SETI@Home though, more like peer 2 peer technology.

Why not kill 2 birds with one stone - promote a valid use of p2p, which removes some of the RIAA threat, while simultaneously frustrating spammers.

Re:distributed.net rides again? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044856)

I would like to see a Kazaa-like service whereby people can choose to mirror a site (or page or resource) and the site itself becomes distributed among many locations, accessed by using a Kazaa-like browser client. It'd be a nice thing and stop a lot of this stuff from happening. Sure, I can see people using it for bad things too, but as a system, or a concept, it stands up for itself.

If you can have distributed attackers, why not distributed targets?

SPEWS RIP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044731)

If so, good riddance. Fucking "we'll know what's best for you" assholes.

Too bad about the other guys, though.

Re:SPEWS RIP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044746)

SPEWS is still there, just not as obvious a target. When the spam stops, SPEWS will fade away.

Re:SPEWS RIP? (1)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044792)

SPEWS works great. I've been using it on my MTA for a while. I had to move from Osirusoft to something else, but it caused barely a hiccup.

If those lists start going down, I may have to set up a DNS locally and download/make my own zone files. Now, how many admins are probably going to be doing something similar? How many of those are ISPs that have cleaned up their act going to have to contact? How many are actually going to remove those IPs?

Re:SPEWS RIP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044842)

SPEWS is a cure that's even worse than the symptoms.

Blocking whole subgroups? Assholes.

Re:SPEWS RIP? (1)

millette (56354) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044847)

Just a few days ago, spews block an email I was sending from burtonhosting.com. Seems a spammer had found a home with them, but it's been kicked out since. I wonder if the block has been lifted by now...

Re:SPEWS RIP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044876)

but it's been kicked out since

Good luck convincing the SPEWS folk.

The ban on burtonhosting.com (and most likely all the other domains in the same subgroup C) will not be lifted. After all, if you let a spammer in once, you'll do it again.

That's SPEWS logic for you.

Re:SPEWS RIP? (1)

millette (56354) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044924)

I heard after 4 days of good behavior, the ban was automatically dropped? Anyhow, spews.org seems to have vanished now too...

Re:SPEWS RIP? (2, Funny)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044886)

I've gone one better than SPEWS and blocked all incoming connections to port 25 from any site with an IP address between 0.0 and 255.255.255.255. Sure, I don't get any email any more, but at least I don't get any spam!

Re:SPEWS RIP? (1)

millette (56354) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044888)

Can anyone reach spews.org [spews.org] ?

1st (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044732)

w00t

First Poop (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044740)

I claim this for that fat, sexless, socially inept, slob CowboyNeal!

See guys, (3, Funny)

Trigun (685027) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044742)

Vigilante Justice does work!

Re:See guys, (1)

FileNotFound (85933) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044852)

What justice?

Anti Spam services get nuked and you call that justice? Explain?

Re:See guys, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044905)

not everything is black and white.

anti-spammers with their vigilante attitude take too many liberties and piss off people like me by blocking people's e-mails just because their ISP can't stop all the spammers.

those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

Re:See guys, (1)

Trigun (685027) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044911)

It all depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on, now doesn't it?

And no, I am not condoning spam. This is a case of burning down the ultra-conservative church that shut down your adult video store.

morons stuff that doesn't mattered into existence (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044744)

that's right. we're here for you/US.

coming soon to/already on, yOUR desktop/network?:

Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, comment posting has temporarily (permanently, if we could figure out how to do it) been disabled. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner. If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down. If you think this is unfair, we don't care.

alert: you've been lax in yOUR payper liesense 'upgrades', you're out.

alert: there's a rumour that you've been badmouthing/lowrating the corepirate nazis, & the naykid furor of the felonious kingdumb, you're out.

alert: looks like yOUR kids have been listening to music again, you're out.

alert: although you appear to be browsing regularly, you've failed to make a purchase recently, you're out.

consider this a chance to stare at your monitor screen, & plan how you can become .compliant. if you think that you are already compliant, & it's somebody else, consider this a chance to rat them out, to gain re-admission to the onLIEn wwwhirled again, (c SourceForgerIE(tm) all rights reserved, you have none).

etc... lookout bullow. these foulcurrs haven't a clue yet, as to what J. Public can do, once he's peaced off. they live in a tiny wwworld, consisting of only their owned greed/fear based goals. they should get ready to see the light.

we're building a vessel that floats on almost any suBStance.

as to the newclear power/planet/population rescue initiative:

it's all free (as in survival), & available immediately to you/all of US.

as you can maybe already see, yOUR survival/success is not the least bit dependent on the gadgets/combinations of the greed/fear based corepirate nazis, & their phonIE ?pr? ?firm? buyassed /.puppets.

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. more breathing. vote with yOUR wallet (somtimes that means not buying anything, a notion previously unmentioned buy the greed/fear/war mongers). seek others of non-aggressive/positive behaviours/intentions. stop wasting anything/being frivolous. that's the spirit.

investigate the newclear power plan. J. Public et AL has yet to become involved in open/honest 'net communications/commerce in a meaningful way. that's mostly due to the MiSinformation suppLIEd buy phonIE ?pr? ?firm?/stock markup FraUD execrable, etc...

truth is, there's no better/more affordable/effective way that we know of, for J. to reach other J.'s &/or their respective markets.

the overbullowned greed/fear based phonIE marketeers are self eliminating by their owned greed/fear/ego based evile MiSintentions. they must deny the existence of the power that is dissolving their ability to continue their self-centered evile behaviours.

as the lights continue to come up, you'll see what we mean. meanwhile, there are plenty of challenges, not the least of which is the planet/population rescue (from the corepirate nazi/walking dead contingent) initiative.

EVERYTHING is going to change, despite the lameNT of the evile wons. you can bet your .asp on that. when the lights come up, there'll be no going back, & no where to hide.

we weren't planted here to facilitate/perpetuate the excesses of a handful of Godless felons. you already know that? yOUR ONLY purpose here is to help one another. any other pretense is totally false.

pay attention (to yOUR environment, for example). that's quite affordable, & leads to insights on preserving life as it should/could/will be again. everything's ALL about yOUR motives.

that old tune title (hope we don't get 'busted' for using it) "make the world go away", takes on new/varied meaning in these times.

the prevalent notion that 'everything will be taken care of' without yOUR knowledge/participation is insidiously misleading.

in our estimation, the biggest 'threat' against US (aside from continuing to fire bullinedly into the 'crowd', whilst demanding applause), would be a failure to recognize our 'role' in the problems. we're victims for sure, but whoare ALL the perpetrators (see also: corepirate nazi puppets), gets lost in the ?pr? ?firm? generated propaganda spew.

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. seek others of non-aggressive behaviours/intentions. that's the spirit.

the lights ARE coming up now. pay attention (to yOUR heart, for example). that could lead to new ways (see also: newclear power plan) of thinking about/dealing with, the needs/rights of others EVERYWHERE on the planet.

having the attention span of a gnat, & similar ambitions, might be ok if you are just planning to be a consumer/type one liners.

take care of each other, you're all we've got. we're here for you. get ready to see the light.--

worth reading, again, with feeling.

"It takes a long time to teach the judges, legislators, and public to understand technology. Right now, they're getting a strong dose of "education" on the Internet's threats and harms, and not hearing so much about its potential. Shouts of "piracy" often outweigh consideration of how we might communicate with more open media formats, but judges like Stephen Wilson in the Grokster case are starting to listen through the shouting. We're encouraging more people to think about how the law shapes technological innovation, how the technology itself can foster creativity, and then to do something about it to advance the public interest."--

"The stability of the large world house which is ours will involve a revolution of values to accompany the scientific and freedom revolutions engulfing the earth. We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing"-oriented society to a "person"-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered. A civilization can flounder as readily in the face of moral and spiritual bankruptcy as it can through financial bankruptcy."

Double-edged sword (-1, Offtopic)

grungebox (578982) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044748)

Sure, this is good news that one more spam machine goes down the tubes, but is DDOSing them the way to go?

While you think about that, I'll check my e-mail

...
[you have 6*10^15 unread messages in your mailbox]
...

I take that back. DDOS them into the stone age, boys!

Re:Double-edged sword (1)

jcoleman (139158) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044775)

He is an anti-spammer. RTFA.

Re:Double-edged sword (1)

BJH (11355) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044777)

I think you're misunderstanding the article. It was anti-spam services that got DDoSed, not spammers.

Re:Double-edged sword (4, Informative)

nate1138 (325593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044782)

Um, you got it wrong pal. It wasn't spammers getting DDOS'd, it was spam fighters getting knocked off the net. By spammers. You know, the bad guys.

Re:Double-edged sword (1)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044918)

The assumption that only spammers hate blackholes and want them down is near-sighted. You're missing the fact that every single one of the blacklists also hit colateral damage targets, legit systems that have a near-impossible time proving they're not spammers. It could be those admins who want the blacklists down too...

Re:Double-edged sword (1)

Pxtl (151020) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044783)

Um, read the friggin' blurb again. Anti-spammers - the good guys in this (unless you object to the more overactive vigilantes like SPEWS).

Re:Double-edged sword (0, Redundant)

Grech (106925) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044786)

Unfortunately, these are not spammers who are being forced to pack up and go home, but the operators of black-hole lists.
This is, unfortunately a victory for the junkmailers. I find it depressing that they were able to get away with such criminal behavior.

Re:Double-edged sword (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044794)

Uh, you might try reading the article dumbshit.

RTFS[tory]... (0, Redundant)

JazzManDRP (158742) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044795)

That was an ANTI-spam site DDOSed out of existance. This is no Good Thing at all.

Re:Double-edged sword (0, Redundant)

reezle (239894) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044799)

Kind of the wrong way around... They were anti-spam services, I believe.

Re:Double-edged sword (0, Redundant)

arth1 (260657) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044800)

Sure, this is good news that one more spam machine goes down the tubes, but is DDOSing them the way to go?

RTFA. It's not spammers that's taken down, but ANTI-spammers.

--
*Art

Re:Double-edged sword (0, Redundant)

athakur999 (44340) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044806)

Did you read the summary? These are ANTI-spam boxes that were DDOSed. This means MORE spam for you, not less.

Re:Double-edged sword (5, Funny)

aphr0Scorp (690069) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044816)

You, sir, are a hero. Not only did you avoid reading the article, but you apparently didn't even read the HEADLINE!

Re:Double-edged sword (0, Redundant)

kyoko21 (198413) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044850)

Didn't even read the article. It wsn't a SPAM machine that went down, it was a machine that contained information that help fight spam.

Re:Double-edged sword (0, Redundant)

GuyWithLag (621929) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044853)

*cough*
You don't seem to have RTA, because they are the *anti*-spam guys that provide RBLs....

The Heavy Hitters Are Still Around (5, Informative)

Nintendork (411169) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044750)

So, when will we see a distributed RBL that can stand up to distributed attacks?

I'd never even hear of the two sites that closed down. Personally, I use Spamcop's DNSBL [spamcop.net] , DSBL [dsbl.org] , and ORDB [ordb.org] .

-Lucas

Re:The Heavy Hitters Are Still Around (0, Flamebait)

Distan (122159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044887)

From a spammers point of view, these blacklists are just another form of DDOS aimed directly at them.

DDOS = Distributed Denial of Service.

Distributed as in there are multiple computers involved, all coordinated by some central host. Denial of Service in that it inteferes with a desired activity.

If you are a spammer, any distributed sytem that blocks your ability to send email is a denial of service that should be dealt with using whatever resources are at your disposal. This DDOS is best dealt with by decapitating the central host (blacklist server) instead of by trying to deal with all the zombies (mail servers) involved.

The resources available to a spammer are limited. They don't have the ability to get a court order to force the blacklist server offline, they can't have Network Solutions yank the blacklist server out of DNS space, but they can launch a retributional DDOS attack back at the blacklist server.

Adapt or die, no? These blacklist servers are interfering with the ability of spammers to conduct their business. Any solution that stops this interference is going to be worth considering.

Re:The Heavy Hitters Are Still Around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044906)

Cheers! I feared we would run out of targets.

Re:The Heavy Hitters Are Still Around (2, Informative)

Havokmon (89874) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044920)

Yeah, but look at OpenRBL [openrbl.org] , DSBL references them..

Re:The Heavy Hitters Are Still Around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044928)

Spamcop is probably selling all your queries to Cyveillance, but if that doesn't bother you, go for it.

~~~

Heh heh (-1, Flamebait)

Doesn't_Comment_Code (692510) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044751)

I think this happened in the Old West a lot. Definitely in the movies. When law enforcement was too slow, too incompetent, or just plain absent, the good old cowboys saddled up and handled things themselves.

There are a lot of people who'd like to lull you into a sit-back-and-let-the-government-or-other-auhtoriti es-do -do-every-thing attitude. Your function is to buy things and support the structure.

While government is not a bad thing, heck it's a good thing, some of our founding fathers pointed out not only the option to act, but the responsibility to act beyond the law in certain situations.

The American spirit is still alive.

Wasn't it the anti-spam service that got hit? (1, Insightful)

Magnus Pym (237274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044785)

Huh? It seems like it is the Anti-spam service that
got hit here. The spammers won, or am I missing something?

Magnus.

Re:Heh heh (1)

jdavidb (449077) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044808)

The American spirit is still alive.

Apparently America believes in taking down the good guys? Or did you read the article?

YOU WERE DROPPED AS A CHILD HUH.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044822)

Dumbass, rtfa

Re:Heh heh (1)

Doesn't_Comment_Code (692510) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044841)

whoops not done...

So I say DDoS them Back! Spammers have always operated outside the realm of good-and-proper. And people act like that generally meet an unfortunate end.

There was a /. article about an Ausie Spam operation shut down by DDoS, and nobody felt bad about it. And the more they pull this crap, the more likely law enforcement will look the other way while spammers are DDoSed back to 1960.

Yes, but. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044753)

I want to see 64.94.110.11 ddossed out of existance too. They are a notorius spamming server!!!!!!!!!

Re:Yes, but. (0)

lanswitch (705539) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044836)

And while you are at it, take 198.247.175.96 down please. This is also a heavy-spamming site. Just look at it.

Sounds like a good use for Freenet (4, Interesting)

Matey-O (518004) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044754)

Distributed, hidden, can't tell who registerd the file...freenet could fulfill the 'DDOS tolerant' needs here.

Why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044755)

is that monkeys.com (or whatever) guy saying he'll give up for ever, or 6 months, or whatever, because of this attack? Why not see if he or anyone can do something about it (trace it, stop it, take legal action, wait until it's over and carry on again)? The whole thing seems a little melodramatic.

probable cause (5, Insightful)

poison_reverse (647609) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044756)

why cant the goddamn authorities tie in motive with these attacks and go after the spammers who are obviously promoting/funding these attacks?

Re:probable cause (2, Insightful)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044907)

From one of the letters:

If your company does not have a gross of at least 100 million a year and a influential politician or two in your pockets to law enforcement you do not exist. They will not investigate the criminal acts being perpetrated against your lively hood.

The authorities just don't care.

-- Dr. Eldarion --

This reply brought tears to my eyes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044761)

"The loss of a fight, a battle, or even a war does not necessarily destroy the standing from which you fought. Superior fire-power amplified by the inactivity of the apathetic does not speak to the principles for which you fought."

I want to help (-1, Offtopic)

HalliS (668627) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044763)

... where do I sign up to help Ddos'ing these SCOmbags?

just to get it over with (-1, Redundant)

Kevin_ap (597233) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044765)

I for one welcome our new spammer overlords.

Lack of community... (2, Insightful)

BJZQ8 (644168) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044780)

If you read his notice, you'll observe that his biggest beef is that he got no support from any of the big ISP's that probably used his services anyway. The /. blurb is right...until there is some sort of distributed, un-DDOS-able method of tracking spammers and their ever-rotating servers, we will continue to be blanketed with spam. By the way, has anyone noticed a particular surge in spam just today? I've gotten dozens of very similar messages in just the past three hours.

ANOTHER problem (4, Insightful)

Nijika (525558) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044889)

And this is a huge one. I've dealt with DDoS attacks in the past, large scale ones like the ones that hurt the anti-spam lists.

A lot, if not the vast majority of infected zombie attackers out there are located in asia pacific. Trying to track down the responsible admin, and then trying to get a response is -near impossible-. Language barriers, general apathy, it's all there. On top of that a lot of hosts in Korea have awesome pipe.

Seriously, people keep bandying about the idea of using freenet for distribution of blackhole lists, but it's probably absolutely THE best solution to the problems we're facing. The ISPs can only do so much, and when the lists are distributed from a central, known source.. well, we've seen the results of this.

I suggest one of us take up the cause of creating this freenet distribution system. It could revolutionize the way trusted data is passed if it works successfully for an RBL. I'd do it myself, but I'm beyond short of time, and brains for that matter :)

Re:Lack of community... (1)

poison_reverse (647609) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044916)

between spams about penis enlargement,viagara,weight loss miracles, and hot co-eds who just "moved into my area" i'm beginning to second-guess my skills with the ladies. My inbox is flooded with this shit not to mention goddamned microsoft virus-spawned emails touting a fake patch.

Look on the bright side... (5, Funny)

emacnabber (682085) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044781)

... atleast they didn't blow up blow up [byu.edu] their servers.

Like it or not... they work (4, Insightful)

dspyder (563303) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044784)

I'm a big advocate for as few (i.e. none) false positives as possible. I consider them way more dangerous than a false negative.... but used in moderation, these services are quite effective in reducting a large number of spam.

Using a spamtrap that using weighted scoring, like SpamAssassin or the like, you can use the data they provide combined with your other heuristics (and whitelists and bayes) to provide a much more accurate view of the overall picture.

--D

I'm sure glad... (0, Offtopic)

macdaddy (38372) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044788)

...I posted this to Slashdot YESTERDAY [slashdot.org] . Why is it that all the really good article submissions are rejected and the short detail-lacking ones by ACs are accepted?

Re:I'm sure glad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044833)

Why is it that all the really good article submissions are rejected and the short detail-lacking ones by ACs are accepted?

'cause it wouldn't be ./ then.... ;-)

Re:I'm sure glad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044865)

quit your bitchin' ya wee girlie

A real Pity (1)

DkY (444692) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044791)

It's a real pity to see this, one more outpost gone down.

I wonder why the authorities wouldn't help out in this case?

Name names! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044793)

"...Several
hundred abuse complaints, and numerous threats against our selves, our
servers, and our Internet connection. Ignorant administrators have placed
blocks on legitimate emails from our customers due to the spam sent out
using forged random users@compu.net email addresses."

Identify them. Here. Now.

The US Constitution might give us an idea... (2, Interesting)

sixteenraisins (67316) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044796)

From Article II: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Are we now supposed to "take up arms" against the SPAMmers ourselves?

William

massive Joe jobs? (2, Insightful)

MacBrave (247640) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044807)

What exactly is a 'massive Joe job'?

Re:massive Joe jobs? (1)

Znonymous Coward (615009) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044834)

If its anything like a toe job you can count me in!

Re:massive Joe jobs? (4, Informative)

beady (710116) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044835)

A Joe Job is where some unsuspecting innocents email is placed as the "from" address in the email headers. Headaches ensue

Re:massive Joe jobs? (0)

Papatoast (245525) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044866)

A hot co-ed gave me a massibe Joe-job back when I was in college..'course that was after 7 or 8 Milwaukie's Beasts!!

Re:massive Joe jobs? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044899)

What exactly is a 'massive Joe job'?

A "joe job" is the term used when someone deliberately blackens the victim's name by false pretences. An example would be if I sent out millions of spam offering "cheap medications and porn and university diplomas, just contact MacBrave at www.accs.net/users/macbrave". You'd get outraged complaints from the recipient, and despite your protestations of innocence your online reputation would be irreparably damaged. That's a "joe job".

It seems sad on the surface, but I won't miss 'em (2, Insightful)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044814)

These "anti-spam" guys have been a thorn in my side, and I HATE spam. They will list you in their list for the slightest of insecurities in your email system, and keep you there for days, weeks, or months after you've patched them. They will assume you are a spammer, even if you swear to them up and down how much you hate spam (and mean it!). They will block whole subnets based on the activities of a few.

Most (all?) of the "anti-spam" systems out there are very poorly thought out. The ratio of "collateral damage" to actual spams stopped is way too high. And who appointed these guys worldwide "email cops" anyhow? I know I didn't.

There has to be a better way to block spam than blackhole lists and the like! Maybe making it a Federal crime to buy anything from a spammer? Voila, no one buys from spammers, so spammers stop spamming the US...

Re:It seems sad on the surface, but I won't miss ' (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044878)

What really needs to be a federal crime is to be a dumb whore like you are. Fuck off and die.

DDOS counters? (1)

mugnyte (203225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044826)


The zombie machines have been compromised by any number of holes or emails. It cold take quite a long time to build a solid network that could send out such coordinated attacks.

However, /. geeks, I'd love to hear the possible countermeasures for such a thing. Is there any recourse in sending the zombie's ISP a notification of infectino? Do Anti-spam laws apply in the form of a DDOS? Perhaps there truely is no way to alleviate such an attack. You tell me.

The spam 150 (0, Troll)

cybermace5 (446439) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044848)

So it seems the spammers are lashing out, in the face of recent successes like the California spam ban. What do they think they'll accomplish?

Supposedly there are about 150 spammers doing the majority of the world's spam. I can't believe they can keep the entire world from eventually picking up the pitchforks. I guess they think that in order to control a thing, you must annoy it repeatedly for years on end?

Re:The spam 150 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044937)

Then 150 bullets efficiently delivered should solve the problem.

Bye Bye (1)

NetNinja (469346) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044854)

I for one have noticed an incredible decrease of spam ever since the SoBig virus hit. I used to get 15 to 20 spams a day. Now I am lucky if I get 1.
hmm, Now that 30 mins of my day is freed up I don't know what to do with myself.

Distributed? (1)

seasleepy (651293) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044855)

So we're throwing P2P clients in our mail programs now?

I mean, I can see that it could work, and it'd solve the problem....use PGP or something of that sort to encrypt it initially and have the client throw out the old list and install the new one whenever it receives a newer one signed by the spamfighters. And then you don't have to worry about DDOSes particularly.

But it seems to be a bit much to ask anyone to do simply to get a blacklist....

Who's in control of e-mail? (2, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044857)

I think the bottomline failure in the "War on Spam" is that there's no central "root of trust" authority in the e-mail system... that is, no sactioning body regulating the use of e-mail in the way that we can have regulations about use of the PTSN that actually stick.

What I think is going to need to happen eventually is that e-mail is goin gto have to become a closed-system where ISPs have to pay to gain admission and risk ejection if the fail to control the Spam or other abuses coming out from their sources.

The fact is, any time you have an open unregulated communication system, the lowlifes are gonna be the ones who take it over...

Two Wrongs Make a Right (3, Insightful)

ticklemeozmo (595926) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044861)

I hate to sound like the typical crybaby, but why do the good guys always get screwed? If we (the spam-hating/fighting collective) were to do this, I can almost guarentee there would be media and probably law-enforcement backlash against us (as proven by the story of the spammer whose information was leaked by someone).

Now, knowing that law enforcement WON'T do anything against this, what happens when we decide on vigilante justice and return the favor onto the spammers who DDOoSed them (it's an assumption)? Will the law suddenly perk up and seek those who struck back?

And what sort of example is this proving? That Law Enforcement doesn't matter/work with technology as the internet? Is this foreshadowing for the California Anti-Spam bill?

This is your typical example of hitting your little brother/sister back after s/he hit you and your mom catching you only citing "It's always the second person who gets caught."

Distributed anti-spam? (1)

eGabriel (5707) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044877)

Perhaps spammer information can be disseminated via a p2p network in order to reduce load and create too many targets to take down? I suppose someone is doing this already and I need to hit google.

Another argument for Bayesian filters (1)

harley_frog (650488) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044881)

Thanks to POPFile, I can at least filter out most of the spam that gets into my mailbox, but I prefer a solution [bofhcam.org] that addresses the source of the problem.

Girls don't like boys they like... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7044883)

Cars and money... Boys laugh at girls when they're not funny... Come on everyone sing

So, when will we see a distributed RBL... (2, Informative)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044884)

Never. Fact is, for a blacklist to have any credibity it has to come from a central source. If it doesn't, then how are you going to authenticate the real blacklist from a fake claiming to be the blacklist but actually blocking legit ISPs and letting spammers by. P2P isn't the solution to everything.

Now, I'm not suggesting violence, but... (1)

Psiren (6145) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044890)

... I heard on the radio a guy talking about hitmen. Apparently the average hit only costs about 5k. It's not impossible to track these spammers down. Well, I'll leave the rest to your imagination... ;)

Here's what cracks me up (5, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044891)

We've had a succession of Washington suits yakking on about Information Security, and Cyber War and The Great Potential Threat To Our Infrastructure, and yet when DDoS attacks actually happen, what do they do?

You guessed it. Squat.

There's no votes and no budget in actually fighting crime. There's plenty of capital to be made in selling up the threat, and in promising that you'll fix it, given just a little more time in office, and a slightly larger personal empire.

What I'd like to see is our Dictator of Homeland Security pinned down and made to explain why he's not doing something about the attacks that are happening now. If we can't defend monkeys.com from a DDoS from malicious assholes, how does he expect to believe that we're able to defend safety or economic critical infrastructure from the same kind of attack launched by the truly malevolent?

Good riddance (5, Interesting)

PincheGab (640283) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044894)

Having been unfortunate enough to be assigned an IP block from a previous spammer and having gone through the subsequent ass-kissing I had to do to a black list maintainer that absolutely refused to remove us from the the list, I say the less blacklists there are, the better.

I'm sorry but some of these list maintainers are anal, (VERY) self-righteous, awful people who will not listen, not even when the person at the other end of the line is polite, patient, and takes a polite and amicable approach to the issue of getting removed from the blacklist (and punches a pillow after the phone calls and emails instead of being rude to the person).

I'm sorry but with the hell I had to go through to get removed (too much unwarranted ass-kissing, too much putting up with the "I'm only a volunteer" crap) I am only glad to see these anal a-holes go.

P2P? (1)

ikkonoishi (674762) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044898)

Hmm... It sounds to me like peer to peer software would be a great way to distibute a DOS proof anti-spam system. Integrate Bittorent with the sharing system with an easy to choose tracker site. Of course I could just be talking out of my @$$ here.

Signed Broadcast (1)

nuggz (69912) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044904)

I think that anti spam people should simply broadcast the blacklist information through some distributed system.
Filesharing, IM service, IRC (no DDOS there!), Usenet or such.
Then it is up to the individual clients on whether to add or remove the "spam" depending who signed it.

I think usenet, perhaps with multiple moderators could work.
Add a good web of trust, and it might work.

assuming its true... (1)

NumLk (709027) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044912)

...for all the lip service various Federal agencies spew regarding reporting incidents like this, they sure don't seem to be acting.

Turing test needed (1)

argoff (142580) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044917)

I really think the best way to manage spam is to have it so that those who want to email you that are not already on your list half to take a 30-60 second truing test. It could be from a site of your choice that issues a signed id string if the test is completed successfully. If someone wants to talk to you, then that's not that much of a nussance, but for a spammer sending out 10million emails/day it would be a disaster.

give names, numbers. Make a stink. (1)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044919)

Let's have the names+numbers of those law enforcement officials who didn't feel this was worth tracking down.

Then, let's call/fax/email/write just about anybody who remotely has power over them. State reps, governors, DAs. A few calls to radio stations(NPR might eat this right up), local "consumer reporters"....

ha ha... use SETI for P2P (1)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044923)

Searching for intelligent life in the universe, and pr0n on your hard drive :-D
ha ha!
j/k

DDos (1)

Spl0it (541008) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044930)

Perhaps he could ask the community for help tracking down the DDOS attacks, it only takes one IP of a friend or someone down the road from one of us to get the ball rolling.

Go ahead and post the thousands of IP's... I'd be glad to poke around and see if I can find any of those pcs in this area or get in touch with any of the PC's owners.

Time to make your own RBL (1)

pfleming (683342) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044931)

The biggest problem is these zones are HUGE. It doesn't take as much CPU/RAM as storage space. This could become the most highly traded file on Kazaa...

From the Quizling Department (0, Offtopic)

the_flatlander (694162) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044932)

I, for one, welcome our new SPAM Overlords....

What are we going to do? (4, Insightful)

LMCBoy (185365) | more than 10 years ago | (#7044938)

The internet seems to become more worthless every day, as more and more of it is hijacked by spammers and other commercialization.

How can we take it back? If we can't, how can we replace it with something more resistant to these electronic malignancies?

I want instant communication with friends and colleagues all over the planet, but I don't want UCE. I want instant access to the world's knowledge on all topics, from crucial news to movie trivia, but I want it without viruses, interstitial ads, popups, spyware, and all that other crap.

By using Linux with some other specialized software, I have erected a defensive perimeter around my internet existence, so the tidal wave of garbage largely passes me by. But the walls need maintenance, and there always seems to be some new leak that needs plugging.

It's regrettable that we need to take such drastic measures, but what really worries me is that the need is increasing with time. Can you imagine the situation where 99% of your email is spam? Is there an alternative to giving up email entirely at that point?
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