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Tell me, Mr. Anderson... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7171879)

...what use is a release client when freebsd is...dying? FP

Re:Tell me, Mr. Anderson... (0, Offtopic)

trompete (651953) | more than 10 years ago | (#7172182)

Well, I'm not sure about a Release CLIENT, but Release Candidates's are always good. :)

kamikaze? (-1, Troll)

cyb97 (520582) | more than 10 years ago | (#7171983)

Basically they're looking for people to deploy a RC on a somewhat missioncritical system (definition being heavy-loaded system?)

Sounds scary...

Re:kamikaze? (4, Interesting)

bluGill (862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7172151)

Many big companies have labs for this purpose. Some machine that is similear to production, but used only for testing. Normally they have the ability to simulate real load. These labs are perfect places to try freebsd4.9rc2. Note that some are very strict about what gets into the labs when, but in general if you run FreeBSD on your production machines, you should be testing this release someplace. If you find a bug in a release canidate it can be fixed before release, wait until there is a full release to test only to find a bug that affects you, and you can't run the released. If you want something in 4.9, you have to run -stable, which means you may get one bug fixed only to find someone else introduced a different one. (Not likely, but it happens)

Re:kamikaze? (1)

cyb97 (520582) | more than 10 years ago | (#7178187)

You can say what you want about cleanroom testing, but in my experience it never even gets close to what real-life experience can offer...
Things usually break the way you least expected it, or didn't simulate in the cleanroom...

Re:kamikaze? (1)

bluGill (862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7179390)

Well yes, but it is still valuable to do that testing. Much better to find and fix a bug in the cleanroom than in production. Eventually someone will want to move this to full production, and I'd hate for them to encounter a bug that could have been fixed if someone did that testing. Just because not all bugs are caught doesn't mean it is worthless.

Re:kamikaze? (1)

sir_cello (634395) | more than 10 years ago | (#7191043)


We have two stages of pre-deployment labs testing.

Firstly, our product (mission critical teleco product) first passes our own internal QA labs stress and functional testing. It's quite common to find race conditions here. We use our own internal data sets, but also a large scale customer database.

Secondly, a few of our customers (the smart ones) have their own validation labs for proofing before they'll take the release into a production environment. They'll subject a release to a couple of weeks intensive regression / data testing - a few issues often come out of this for us to fix. Then it goes into production.

Some customers actually run multiple installations of our product, so will trial a new release in parallel (or in part of) the current release.

I'm guessing FreeBSD is looking for the latter two.

Most smart customers are wise enough to not take a new release straight into production.

Gravedigger's Union (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7172011)

Oh, boy, the new version is available at last! Do we have to contact the gravedigger's union and pay them to digt up its corpse? or can we do it ourselves?

This halloween (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7172059)

This halloween, I'm going to the Geeks Masquerade Ball dressed as *BSD.

Costumes of the dead are popular this year.

Re:This halloween (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7172441)

Just crack your skull open and show everyone your dead brain tissue.

FreeBSD 4.2 RC1 is DEAD!! (-1, Troll)

acaird (530225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7172187)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Re:FreeBSD 4.2 RC1 is DEAD!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7173364)

Yeah. FreeBSD 4.2 has been dead so long it doesn't even have a RELEASE tag in CVS.

That's a TOE tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7174687)

Free BSD ships with a toe tag, not a release tag!

Re:FreeBSD 4.2 RC1 is DEAD!! (1)

acaird (530225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7175345)

Troll?!? This isn't a troll. RC1 is dead...

Insider's scoop: What Killed FreeBSD (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7172316)

The End of FreeBSD

[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

= Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

*BSD is dying (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7172512)

Fact: *BSD is dying

It is common knowledge that *BSD is dying, that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The loss of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Ummm... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7174720)

I can't remember, does the C stand for casket or coffin? I always forget.

Neither (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7174802)

This one is the cadaver release.

Re:Neither (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7178347)

Oh, sort of like releasing the body from the morgue. I get it now. Thanks.

Ideal hardware to run *BSD on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7174781)

Click on this image link click here [planetquake.com] to see the ideal case mod for a system to run your *BSD on.

*BSD Mash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7174826)

I was logged on in the lab in the lab late one night
When my eyes beheld an eerie sight
For my FreeBSD from his disc began to rise
And suddenly to my surprise

He did the mash
He did the *BSD mash
The *BSD mash
It was a graveyard smash
He did the mash
It caught on in a flash
He did the mash
He did the *BSD mash

Fsck the trolls (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7175237)

You losers wouldn't know a great OS if a monopoly shoved it down your throat. Linux is for faggots, queers, commies and people who fuck their mothers, sisters and dogs. FreeBSD is the only *NIX OS even worth considering. Here's to Murray pounding that worthless little piece of shit Linus in his ass over and over again, like the little bitch he is. You fucking commie queers. Get a life. Just because an OS is beyond your technical expertise doesn't mean you need to spread lies about it. Go back to school and learn instead of getting frustrated and spreading FUD, code-commie cocksucking ass pumping jizz drinking faggot Linux users.

Re:Fsck the trolls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7179291)

Don't worry, the only person getting frustrated about Linux (other than you) is this [freebsd.org] guy. Ha ha.

Elegy for *BSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7179606)


Elegy For *BSD


I am a *BSD user
and I try hard to be brave
That is a tall order
*BSD's foot is in the grave.

I tap at my toy keyboard
and whistle a happy tune
but keeping happy's so hard,
*BSD died so soon.

Each day I wake and softly sob
Nightfall finds me crying
Not only am I a zit faced slob
but *BSD is dying.

4.9 is the shiznit baby (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7189825)

yes I am running it on my dinky little
dual PII-300Mhz server @ home..

[jason@beast]$ uname -a
FreeBSD beast 4.9-RC FreeBSD 4.9-RC #0: Wed Oct 1 07:24:43 EDT 2003 jason@beast:/space/obj/usr/src/sys/BEAST i386
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