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Red Orchestra, UT2003 Mod, Released

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the real-sucking-chest-wounds dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 191

Neophytus writes "The first public edition of the long awaited Red Orchestra mod for Unreal Tournament 2003 has been released. 'Red Orchestra brings you in-depth infantry combat on the Eastern Front of WWII. With the emphasis on realism and authenticity, the Soviet Red Army meets the German Army on the ground across battlefields from Kiev through Stalingrad and on to the Reichstag in Berlin. Real weapons. Real battles. Real soldiers.' Download from FilePlanet (free reg. req.), FasterFiles, more."

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191 comments

FUCK OF YOU CUNTLICKERS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186384)

FP asdfasdf

WHERE CAN I GET THE SOURCE FOR HALF LIFE 2??? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186499)

Or even better, precompiled binaries would be great.

Thanks in advance.

TTFN

Re:WHERE CAN I GET THE SOURCE FOR HALF LIFE 2??? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186550)

You can download it from this shittorrent [goatse.cx]

GP: Gnaa Post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186385)

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what is this, number 12? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186392)

yay, another ww2 shooter...

Re:what is this, number 12? (1)

cosmo7 (325616) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186515)

Yes, but this has real battles and real soldiers. Not that stupid computer-generated stuff. They're real. You actually get real soldiers. Of course the downside is that you probably have to arrange their funerals, as the battles are also real.

In... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186416)

In Soviet Red Army Russia we don't need video games to kill!

SHUT UP NERDS! (5core : 5, informative) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186422)

Nobody cares about your moddded case with 10 neon fans. Nobody cares about your G5 that takes 20 minutes to copy a 17mb file! Nobody cares about your GEforce FX6000 that takes up four PCI slots just to get 1 more FPS than teh Radeon that only needs 1 slot!

Nobody cares about #660066 because that colour should be made illeagal.

Nobody cares if you like wanking to tubgirl and goatse! Nobody cares about you emerging the latest Gxentoo with -09 -wfun-rolls -wl33t CFAGS!

SHUT UP!, and don't you DARE post an url ever again without hyperlinking it first!

AND IF THIS POST IS MODDED DOWN, EXPECT A GOATSE WINDOW IN YOUR BROWSER SOON!

Re:SHUT UP NERDS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186468)

Nobody cares about you emerging the latest Gxentoo with -09 -wfun-rolls -wl33t CFAGS!

YOU TOTALLY FAIL IT FUCKTARD. Everybody knows that gentoo is optimised best with -O9 not -09 (oh not zero) and that the correct flags are -ffun-rolls -fl33t and -frandom-bit-stripper not -w as you assert.

YOU TOTALLY FAIL IT.

Uhmm right.. (2, Interesting)

Hott of the World (537284) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186426)

While I can respect a free Unreal Tourney mod set in the WW2 universe, I must ask this:

Doesnt this add to an already overblown selection of World War 2 based FPS's?

Heck the best thing about the Desert Combat mod for 1942 is that its NOT about WW2!

Re:Uhmm right.. (2, Informative)

Locmar (653979) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186460)

There are quite a few WWII FPSs out there, true, but most of them are pretty Quakey and unrealistic, and none that I know of have treated the Eastern Front with due respect.

Re:Uhmm right.. (1)

fleafan (547786) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186626)

..and none that I know of have treated the Eastern Front with due respect

Then allow me to recommend Battlefield 1942 [battlefield1942.com]. As realistic as these things come without losing gameplay. And lots of Yak's, Katyushas and whatnot from the eastern campaign.

Re:Uhmm right.. (3, Insightful)

randyest (589159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186639)

Doesnt this add to an already overblown selection of World War 2 based FPS's?

No, not at all. In order to add, it would first have to meet, then somehow exceed the current offerings. Or at least bring something significantly different to the table.

Note that this mod include no vehicles. It says it will include vehicles for ut2k4, but that's not out yet, so with this, you get no vehicles. So what we have here is a WWII mod for an FPS, without vehicles, introduced into genre ruled by Battlefield 1942 [battlefield1942.com], which has planes, tanks, jeeps, ships, and every other kind of vehicle you'd expect. That you can really drive (and ride in while someone else drives).

So, this doesn't even meet the current standard (bf1942). Maybe before bf1942 this would have been interesting competition for MOHAA or RtCW, but now it's just one more of the same old. And how is this News for Nerds or Stuff That Matters?

Is /. now going to turn into planetslashdot.com? I can't wait for the ourly announcements such as "]00l dude wants you all to know that they just managed to get a new model to compile for their upcoming uber-l337 killemall mod. Here's a screenshot of the new model with a plain grey skin. Kewl, eh? Oh, and they need coders and artists, so check 'em out!!!!!!"

Re:Uhmm right.. (1)

heli0 (659560) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186679)

announcements such as "]00l dude wants you all to know that they just managed to get a new model to compile for their upcoming uber-l337 killemall mod. Here's a screenshot of the new model with a plain grey skin. Kewl, eh? Oh, and they need coders and artists, so check 'em out!!!!!!"
That is hilarious because it is so true.

But WW2 is big! (Re:Uhmm right..) (1)

ThreeFarthingStone (675618) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186877)

Not only did my country, the USA, invade France and get bombed at Hawaii, but as part of a coalition they entered North Africa and Italy and attacked Japanese-held islands. But there are plenty of games about the USA fighting WW2, even though there was no fighting on the US mainland and much fighting did not involve US forces.

I've never tried "Red Orchestra", but if it really is a game about the eastern European front, then it is a game about one of the most important but overlooked parts of WW2. The "Great Patriotic War" was fought between Germany and the USSR. Germany had captured many states, several entire Soviet Socialist Republics, and had its front line deep to the east in the Russian SSR. But Russia was too big, allowing the Soviets to gain strength with aid from certain other countries. The city of Stalingrad saw urban war. The German army could not hold that Russian town and also defend Tunisia (in Northern Africa near Italy), and lost both. Then the Soviets advanced west and some other troops went north into Italy.

Of the southern and eastern fronts, the eastern saw more action, if action is measured by the amount of land taken. It was the Red Army that took Berlin, the German capital. The Soviets won the Great Patriotic War, though they would also see action in eastern Asia.

In Asia was another of the great overlooked fronts, the War of Resistance Against Japan, fought by the Chinese Guomintang/Kuomintang (depending on which desktop environment you prefer) and the Chinese Communists against Japan. Could this be the sequel to "Red Orchestra"? Or what if someone plays "Red Orchestra" as Germany and captures all Siberia (eastern Russia)?

I'll be downloading this one! (2, Insightful)

MysticGlyph (706776) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186427)

The single biggest complaint I hear about Unreal II is the unbelievable weapons and non-traditional sci-fi style maps. Now with this mod maybe people will give the Unreal engine another chance. .

Re:I'll be downloading this one! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186519)

Only a bunch of dick-biters would complain about that. I think all that sci-fi shit is awesome. The full potential of sci-fi style maps hasn't even been covered yet.

Re:I'll be downloading this one! (1)

randyest (589159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186647)

That's odd, the single biggest complaint I've heard (and mine is really only one) is that it sucks.

Re:I'll be downloading this one! (1)

kidgenius (704962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186898)

I believe that Americas Army: Operations was built on the UT2k3 engine before the actual game was out. And that seemed like a fairly realistic/non-scifi game.

UT2k3 or UT2k4 (1)

AdamBLang (674002) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186440)

The /. article says 2k3, the site says 2k4. You got my hopes up.

Re:UT2k3 or UT2k4 (3, Informative)

Vaevictis666 (680137) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186503)

Mods for UT2k3 will be binary compatable with 2k4. Mods for UT2k4 that don't involve any of the fun new stuff (like vehicles) will likely be compatable with 2k3.

UT2k4 is the same old engine, same old content, _plus_ some fun new stuff like more than double the maps, more character models, a few new (and some almost-old) gametypes, and more than cursory vehicle support. Oh yeah, and further graphics/networking optimizations.

Re:UT2k3 or UT2k4 (1)

randyest (589159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186838)

Mods for UT2k3 will be binary compatable with 2k4.

Mods for UT2k4 that don't involve any of the fun new stuff (like vehicles) will likely be compatable with 2k3

But according to the Red Orchestra "features" page:

  • All new high detail environments in World War 2 Eastern Front settings.
  • Experience famous battles from 1941 to 1945.
  • The Wehrmacht and the Red Armies are the two core fighting forces.
  • Complete arsenal of intricatly detailed uniforms, equipment and weapons used in battle
  • Branch System
  • Limited Reinforcement System
  • 3d Voice Communication (UT2004)
  • Multiple weapon functions.
  • Realistic damage system
  • New multiplayer gametype that brings Area Control to the next generation.
  • New scoring system, putting objectives and squadplay at highest priority.
  • New Machinegun and Sniper Rifle systems.
  • Vehicles used for transportation and combat purposes (UT2004)


So, I'm confused. Does this mod work with ut2k3 or not? I mean, it has vehicles, but we all know ut2k3 doesn't support vehicles (you don't have vehicle support until you can drive them yourself, preferably with friends riding along, as you can in bf1942 [battlefield1942.com] -- note that "vehicles" stuck to pre-set tracks have been around for a long time, and no one cares anymore). But it also says "(ut2k4)", so maybe the vehicles magically work with ut2k4 (which isn't out yet), but disappear from the maps (or don't work?) in ut2k3.

In any case, this mod includes no vehicles, yet wants to be a good WWII FPS. It failed before it even began -- bad engine choice. Vehicles are integral to WWII FPS action, and if the Red Symphony maps are playable without them (as they must be to work with ut2k3), then the vehicles aren't very integral to the gameplay, which means it sucks. If it does include vehicles (and therefore doesn't work with ut2k3), then this news is premature, since no one can play the mod until ut2k4 is released. (That would make it rather amazing pre-cognitive coding, though.) In that case, let's wait for real vehicle support to get into UT (2k4 -- we promise!), then wait for the furor over the lag they add to die down some, thena few dozen patches later we can talk again about it. So, I'll meet you here in mid-2005 to discuss this further :)

Where's the .torrent, smiley? (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186442)

Don't you dare post another damned fileplanet link ever again.

Sheesh. I'll go to kazaa before I go to fileplanet.

Not that I find another WWII game all that enticing in the first place.

Re:Where's the .torrent, smiley? (1)

Broodje (646341) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186466)

Amen to that. I see fileplanet, I pass and wait for it to show up on usenet.

Re:Where's the .torrent, smiley? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186562)

Just out of curiosity, why? Is it the fact that you have to make an account? I didn't think it was a big deal, and it's just plain convenient to be able to d/l everything in the way of patches, demos etc. all in one place. I mean, it's free and the d/l's are super fast, what's not to like? Yeah, sometimes on the very day that releases show up you have to wait in line, but when you factor in the speed of the d/l it's better than pulling it from some overloaded server in Taiwan or something.

Re:Where's the .torrent, smiley? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186589)

it's a pain in the ass, the queueing is lame, and it's frankly not that fast. Last time I used it for anything, I ended up in queue for 45 minutes to eventually get a download at a whopping 20KiB/s when I would have gotten 150 from the local warez pub.

Ask Slashdot: Anal or Oral? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186444)

Posted by michael [mailto] on Friday October 10, @02:59PM
from the flaming faggots dept.
CmdrTaco writes "All the editors where I work [goatse.cx] are extremely gay. The problem is that most days we cannot decide between anal and oral sex. Since the majority of readers and posters on slashdot are flaming faggots, I decided to ask my question here instead of the normal gay sex themed irc channels I usually hang on. So the question is, how do you decide? Do you write a perl script or use Java? Something else? I know there are many ways to choose an d I am sure I will get an abundance of answers.

War games (1, Funny)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186445)

I personally don't like war games. This one is special. Stalin or Hitler? Whom do you prefer? ;->

Re:War games (1, Offtopic)

r (13067) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186682)

there's a joke along those lines. if you ask a pole whom to shoot at first, germans or russians, what will he say?

germans first. business before pleasure.

for example the warsaw uprising, which i bet the mod doesn't even consider. when poles started an uprising against nazi occupants in warsaw, the red army was right outside the city - but instead of helping they sat on their hands and waited for germans to massacre half of warsaw.

and then my friends wonder why we have such a massive chip on our collective shoulder. :)

Re:War games (1)

caluml (551744) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186861)

and then my friends wonder why we have such a massive chip on our collective shoulder. :)

Were you around then? Has this affected you personally?
I mean, using the same logic as you, I should in that case be angry with the French, Spanish, Germans, Romans, Vikings, etc, etc. But none of them have ever done anything to me in my lifetime, so why should I have any problem with them?

People are just people. We all like the same things.

Re:War games (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186805)

my favorite war game is global thermonuclear war

My opinion... (0, Troll)

TypoNAM (695420) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186453)

is that Quake 3 engine does a better job of being used in a WWII game such as Return To Castle Wolfenstein and Wolf: E.T.

Becides I've played America's Army Operations v1.90 and it just sucked horribly. I prefer engines that use OpenGL anyway. :p

Re:My opinion... (3, Interesting)

Bingo Foo (179380) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186483)

My opinion is that Quake 3 engine does a better job of being used in a WWII game such as Return To Castle Wolfenstein and Wolf: E.T.
May I ask why?

Re:My opinion... (1)

sproketboy (608031) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186633)

I don't know about TypoNAM, but ET is great. It's fast for lan/internet games, has very team-oriented ruls and it run on Linux too!

Re:My opinion... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186699)

What does this have to do with the WWII genre in particular?

Re:My opinion... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186651)

>> >>My opinion is that Quake 3 engine does a better job of being used in a WWII game such as Return To Castle Wolfenstein and Wolf: E.T.

>>May I ask why?

Because I have a 200MHZ PII you insensitive clod!

Re:My opinion... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186712)

What does this have to do with the WWII genre in particular?

Re:My opinion... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7187151)

Well, because the Quake 3 physics engine was modelled after the real Normandy beach graviton waves, er, because it, um, its textures can do grayscale WWII, um, it has some Wolfenstein code in its genetic background which um... Look, we just wanted control of that oil, okay??!? Quit going on about all that no WMD and no links to al-quaieahda and no uranium deals from south africa and Halliburton corruption crap and just believe that you're safer from terr-rists now, alright?!?

Re:My opinion... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7187232)

Thank you, I do believe that the world is safer from terrorists now.

Re:My opinion... (1)

Wraithlyn (133796) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186600)

I always vastly preferred the bot AI in UT, but I suppose that doesn't matter for multiplayer.

./ed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186457)

Thank god I was aware of this before it got slashdotted. Also that I decided to risk a warning from the network admin and d/l it at work. All the mirrors are going to be swamped now.

What's the matter with this site? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186465)

Is slashdot running like molasses or is my ISP sabotaging slashdot?

Only 5% of my http requests work. The timeouts drive me crazy!

Re:What's the matter with this site? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186485)

The people who provide the bandwidth are rate shaping because /. can't pay their bills. Looks like the hit the limit pretty early this month. Probably from all the BSD trolls.

Re:What's the matter with this site? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186615)

The BSD trolls are to blame? We should set the evil bit for TCP packets that contain trolls for more selective traffic shaping!

Man, I hate this situation. Maybe I even have to talk to somebody using my mouth to get some entertainment. But it's saturday, and there's nobody there at work. I wonder where all the other people are. I think I start with following my network cable. Somewhere on the way I will find some humans, or I even find the network problem that is disrupting my normal life!

Offtopic (Net problems) (1)

Wraithlyn (133796) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186611)

Huh.. same thing's been happening here all day (Calgary, AB).. and it's more than just Slashdot. I thought it just just me, but perhaps it's a big DDOS or new virus spreading or something?

Off-Topic Rant: Fscking Huge Downloads (2, Insightful)

ewhac (5844) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186533)

I just checked the filesize on this mod: 277 mebi [nist.gov]bytes. WTF?? I have a fairly fat pipe going to my house, but since when did it become a good idea to create demos and/or mods regularly exceeding 100 megs?

I recently downloaded the demo for Tron 2.0, weighing in at about 200 megs. Now, I might almost think this reasonable if it weren't for a few crucial facts:

  • The demo only included three maps,
  • There were only three or four enemy models,
  • Tron, if you'll recall, is a flat shaded universe. The textures, such as they are, are dead simple, and should compress down to nothing.

Yet, despite this, the download was 200 megs. It should have been no more than half that.

There has to be more efficient ways to handle this stuff.

Schwab

Re:Off-Topic Rant: Fscking Huge Downloads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186644)

Wow. Anyone who says "mebibytes" and includes a link is so cool that they should be moderated up to Score 5 Insightful posthaste. Even though their post was basically just a bunch of whiny bitching.

Re:Off-Topic Rant: Fscking Huge Downloads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186665)

Because you have to download the entire Unreal Warfare engine to play the demo. That is 127MiB by itself.

Re:Off-Topic Rant: Fscking Huge Downloads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186673)

640k ought to be enough for anybody.

Re:Off-Topic Rant: Fscking Huge Downloads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186773)

This is why I invented the Internet.

Re:Off-Topic Rant: Fscking Huge Downloads (1)

ThreeFarthingStone (675618) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186918)

Off-Topic Rant: Fscking Huge Downloads

Make sure you check your filesystems so you don't lose that huge file you just downloaded! (I know it is a bad joke because fsck starts with a lowercase f. If "mebi" was not hyperlinked I would be very confused now.)

ZEIG HEIL! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186534)

Hail Hitler, we shall rise again.

UT2k3? more like UT2.003k! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186603)

nt

Realistic? (3, Interesting)

Mithrandur (69023) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186641)

You can't call it realistic until you spend the majority of your time waiting in the cold, hoping not to die.

You can't call it realistic if you can play after you've died once.

You can't call it realistic until the credit for every action you take is given to your superior officer.

WWII was a terrible event. I have no problem with FPS, but to make a mockery of WWII while the survivors are still alive seems disrespectful to me. Play all you want in a Sci-fi setting. Make mods "simulating" the america civil war. But I think it would be nice to show some respect for the still-living vets of WWII.

Re:Realistic? (3, Insightful)

randyest (589159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186675)

How, exactly, is it disrespectful to WWII vets to make a mod based on WWII battles?

I've heard a lot of complaints from vets that people forget about their sacrifice, which I think is somewhat true, but I've never heard any complaints about wargames set in WWII (remember the old SSI games? I know vets that loved playing those themselves).

Are you a WWII vet and are offended by this? If so, please tell me about how it makes you feel. Or, do you just know some vets and assume they'd be offended? Or are you just trolling? (DING DING DING - we have a winner!)

Re:Realistic? (1)

Mithrandur (69023) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186729)

I'm not a vet, I'm not a troll. I honestly feel that it's disrespectful of the sacrifice those soldiers made to reduce WWII to a first-person shooter.

I like FPS games. I enjoy a good game of CTF or DM. It's not the violence that bothers me. The very act of making the real traumatic experience of an actual human being into a game (with all the unpleasent bits cut out, of course) demonstrates a profound lack of compassion.

Both of my grandfathers fought in WWII. My wife's grandfather fought in WWII. I would be ashamed to have one of them see me taking part in reducing the most horific experience of their life to an evening's entertainment.

There are plenty of other settings for an FPS. We don't *need* to set them in WWII. I don't think we should; not until everyone who knew that war personally is dead.

Re:Realistic? (1)

randyest (589159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186775)

[it's disrespectful] to reduce WWII to a first-person shooter

Hmm, OK, so you're not trolling, but it may be even worse that you actually believe what you said. That is, I think it's far more disrespectful to actually think that WWII can be reduced by anything. It was what it was and is what it is no matter how many videogames, movies, books, or whatever are created using WWII as a setting.

Is it disrespectful to WWII vets to make a movie about, or set in, WWII?

Is it disrespectful to WWII vets to write a book about, or set in, WWII?

Is it disrespectful to WWII vets to sing a song about, or set in, WWII?

Is it disrespectful to WWII vets to make a board game about, or set in, WWII?

Is it disrespectful to WWII vets to make a videogame about, or set in, WWII?

I think the answer to all of the questions above is "no."

If you answered "yes" to any of those, I believe you're either confusing the map with the territory yourself, or grossly underestimating the average person's ability to distinguish symbol from reality. And I'll go out on a limb and assume that even most UT players can probably do that :)

Re:Realistic? (1)

Drakin (415182) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187002)

I think you're looking at it wrong.

While FPS tend to lean toward giving unrealistic impressions of things, it can also do something important.

They can put a thought into someone's mind that the setting could be worth learning a bit more, thus increasing the awareness of the true horrors of it.

If you want to bitch and moan, how about bitching about the FPS set in Veitnam, or the most reent ar in Iraq? Or are those alright?

Re:Realistic? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187198)

i wouldn't really.

it's not disrespectful to read an entertaining book about the events either, so long as you don't start getting funny ideas. or watch a very entertainment focused movie with clint eastwood about it either(heck, it's from a perioid that a bunch of people affected by ww2 were probably in the production team itself). many of post-war(ww1 and ww2) books published sortly after the wars were big hits among the men who served, for they helped many of the men channel their feelings about it as well provide some insider view to the conflict.

but the main reason i don't feel such entertainment to be disrespectful is because i personally know few vets who don't have a problem with people reading light comics about the confrontment either, nor do they have a problem with document films&books that try to be accurate even if it shows that their side wasn't always valiant and noble(during such times a lot of things happen, some bad some not so bad and some very horrible). life and especially war isn't black and white and they if somebody know it!

however i imagine they would have a problem with people trying to push the whole events into some history limbo while they're living and then extract them totally twisted from the archives for used on 2 penny entertainment. ww2 has been used on entertainment ever since the war ended, while partly a taboo subject in some countries it still is an subject that should be explored and used. in western countries there are people who don't know how many world wars there were during last century and that is much more scarier than some people playing a game in which it is very easy to die(and hopefully they understand that in real life they'd die even easier). even better if such games can be used to spark intrest in history for finding out what happened in the war portrayed in the given game, who fought, where they fought, and why they fought(which isn't because 'the other side was evil', and it is necessary to understand such motives to see them in action). it is possible to write books(and make games) about ww2 even without mentioning ww2 by labeling it as scifi and renaming characters and set the scene elsewhere. yet, what would that change except it would get past censorship more easily, when the censors hopefully let it pass because it doesn't directly point to the given taboo subjects? (some good scifi came out of eastern europe because of this btw.)

what would it really change the game if it wasn't mentioned that it is an ww2 but the scenery was similar anyways, the uniforms were similar, or if just the textures were all neon colored? what would veterans feel about it then? probably very little unless they had already severe problems with their mental health(many of them do, and no i'm not referring to them as retarded, just snapped).

they could add a portion to the game that included 20years of training before getting on the first mission and getting shot, though i seriously doubt that it would make it any more popular.

Re:Realistic? (0)

Delron Da Thugg (708237) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186702)

Make mods "simulating" the American Civil War?

But that era's weapons sucked. There would be a line of 30,000 enemy straight ahead, you'd have maybe 10 lead balls and a bag of gun powder for some crap musket, and if you actually got to fire them off before a cannon ball took off one of your limbs, you'd have to fight the rest with the bayonet on the end of musket. Could you imagine having to swing that 30,000 + times? If it's anything like swinging a weapon in hand to hand in MOH, no thanks. Plus the only weapon upgrade you could possibly get would be some officer's engraved sabre, or maybe get to fire a cannon. Lame. If it was a military strategy like C&C, maybe that would work. But only if you could play Sherman and destroy everything in your path, while lining up souther plantation belles for Union soldier gang bangs.

Re:Realistic? (1)

Mithrandur (69023) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186806)

Ah, but what if you, as a player-character, had a futuristic (by civil war standards) pair of revolvers or something. You take on special-ops missions trying to take out strategic targets, and such.

Or you could do Napoleon-era stuff. Mostly hand weapons and archers, but there are some early musketts. I'd really like to see a good, hand-weapon based FPS. Something with the command flexability you see in fighing games like Tekken, but with a first-person view and movement style.

Re:Realistic? (1)

Nucleon500 (628631) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187136)

One of the things that's never ceased to amaze me is that the Civil War probably could have been won in a week with 15 guys and $500,000's worth of today's weapons technology.

Re:Realistic? (2, Insightful)

MalachiConstant (553800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186726)

This is exactly the same thing that my uncle said when I told him about some of these games (he served during Viet Nam, but never in combat).

I can certainly understand that sentiment, but I think it's understood that any kind of game like this doesn't "make you feel like you were there". Take the Half-Life mod "Day of Defeat". The weapon characterisics are realistic, the sounds the guns make, the environment, etc, but I don't think anyone says, "No, I didn't fight in WWII, but I played DoD, so I know what it was like for those guys.".

Is it disrespectful? Perhaps. Making a game out of a tragedy seems rather crass, but for the people making and playing it it was so long ago that it seems like the ancient past, even though there are still vets living today. But I don't think anyone playing it believes it simulates what the vets went through.

Re:Realistic? (0)

Delron Da Thugg (708237) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186816)

Was your uncle the son of a US Senator or some other silver spoon? How exactly does one serve in Vietnam, but never in combat?!? I don't think being a chef 'serving' in the war counts. Even logistically assisting a war effort shouldn't count as serving in a war. Now my old man, he actually did serve in Nam. He doesn't like to talk about it, but I got the chance to speak to one of his unit mates when they had a reunion a few years back. My old man clipped his share of Charley, apparently. And there's man a thing he saw that was the reason he went there with all brown hair, and came back with a head full of white.

Re:Realistic? (0)

Delron Da Thugg (708237) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186825)

Okay that last sentence really makes no sense. No more crack for me. What I meant to say was, there's many a reason he went to Nam with a full head of brown hair, but came back with a full head of white hair. War is hell, truly.

Re:Realistic? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7187090)

well see we can make game basid of vietnam becaue it was a "conflict" and not a full war.

Good History Book for background (4, Interesting)

davejenkins (99111) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186653)

Stalingrad [barnesandnoble.com]
Enemy At the Gates came close, maybe in it's first 10 minutes. After that, Hollywood falls far short of the horror and what really happened (as much as I can tell from reading this fascinating retelling of the battle for Stalingrad)...

There's been an ongoing debate among us about which is the better history. On the one side Dave, Rick, and others favor the dry academic 'cause and effect' of macroeconomics and political philosophy that lead to the World War 1914-1945. Others among us push for the 'real story', the oral tradition of the grunt soldier's pains and trials from the trench in the actual battle-- it doesn't matter how the forces got there, the drama of the day comes from a baker holding a rifle.

Stalingrad mixes both, but in an acceptable fashion: Beevor rightly frames his story around the causes and impetus behind Hitler's folly and Stalin's incompetence, but then follows those mishaps all the way down to how they drew 500,000 men in the German 6th army to starvation and death in the steppes of the Volga.

This is not an easy read. Do not try it if you have a fear of lice, rot, cold, or desparate hopelessness-- you will feel them as you read.

Beevor's foreshadowing was sometimes distracting, but then, as the reader, I had to tell myself that it was only foreshadowing because I didn't know the details of the battle-- this is history, not fiction. The author draws us to seminal mistakes in judgement, crucial firefights that end up dooming thousands later on, the chaos of war that brings entropy-- and death-- to millions.

I highly recommend this book.

(review originally appeared here [thought-control.org]

Re:Good History Book for background (2, Insightful)

Lobo93 (638514) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186841)

Read it. Loved it. And to be honest, some of those stories made me horrified and saddened. At one point I had to put down the book and just shake my head in utter disbelief; I'm referring to the part where the maimed german soldier was left behind in the gutter next to the airfield. That was extremely painful to read, especially since the author swayed from his ordinary, clinical penning to a more personalized composition.

As a former professional soldier myself, I can vividly picture the scenarios described in relation to military stratagems and political decisions, but I'm at a loss when it comes to the soldiers and their experiences and suffering. But "Stalingrad" excel at portraying both sides of the story, albeit a bit academic, as aforementioned by parent post.

As davejenkins states: "This is not an easy read." - I most defenitely agree. But on the other hand, if you want to know anything about WWII and it's implications and horrors, pick up a copy and behold the black, writhing chaos that is war...

Re:Good History Book for background (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186882)

Excellent reading!

Some of the more macabre parts seem like something out of a Kurt Vonnegut novel. What the people were living is so far from my personal experince that it seems like that the entire thing must be taking place on some alien planet.

Soldiers from both sides were surrendering to the opposing forces, thinking that at least as prisoners they would get some food. They didn't realize that the other side was in the same situation, if not worse -- or if they did, hunger and cold drove them to desperation anyways.

One anecdote that stayed with me in particular: a Russian soldier reported that the rest of his squad had defected to the German lines, and threatened to kill him if he interfered. After receiving his report, an NKVD officer shot the soldier for not acting to stop the defection immediately.

OT: good use for BitTorrent (4, Insightful)

EvilStein (414640) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186686)

FilePlanet absolutely sucks. It's one of the most cluttered websites I've ever seen. More banner ads & crap than most porn sites.

BitTorrent/p2p is an *excellent* way (and legitimate way) to get game demos out.
Why don't more companies announce "Hey, we've thrown this up on Kazaa too! Go get it!" instead?

INstead, we get ad-laden crap like FilePlanet/etc.

Poor use for Kazaa (1)

Syncdata (596941) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186847)

Why don't more companies announce "Hey, we've thrown this up on Kazaa too!
Because whenever you download an executable from Kazaa, it contains at least one, possibly two trojans. With file planet, you can at least insure that the files are not being tampered with.
BitTorrent is an exception, because it hasn't taken off yet (lil billy teh h4xxor isn't using it)

Re:Poor use for Kazaa (1)

randyest (589159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186929)

Because whenever you download an executable from Kazaa, it contains at least one, possibly two trojans.

Heavy exaggeration at best, complete lying FUD at worst. C'mon. Every one? Not in my experience.

With file planet, you can at least insure that the files are not being tampered with.

How's that? They don't give you any sort of MD5 or cksum. And they let 15-year-old sub-site admins upload files directly to their fileserver. And, of course, there have been many cases of viruses and trojans found in files on Fileplanet, just as with every other shareware/mirror/filedump site. [Hopefully funny grammar-pun: you can insure it all you want if you can get an agent to give you a quote for a no-virus-fileplanet-download policy, but you can't ensure or even be sure that a file you get from fileplanet is any safer than a file from anywhere else.]

BitTorrent is an exception, because it hasn't taken off yet (lil billy teh h4xxor isn't using it)

An exception to what? It's nothing like fileplanet, and very little like Kazaa. Do you mean an exception to having viruses or trojans in executables you might download using it? You do realize that bittorent doesn't check for viruses or trojans, right? See, whether or not a file you download (from anywhere) includes a trojan or virus depends on whether or not the source file was tainted to begin with. AFAIK, there is no "download stream interceptor" virus that adds a virus or trojan to an otherwise clean file as you download. I guess it's possible though, and I've just let that meme out into the wild, sigh . .

So, in terms of virus protection, bittorent, kazaa, and fileplanet are equally useless -- you need a secure source file, without viruses. Note that you're more likely to find viruses when looking for illegal or fringe-legal files (the **AA like it that way) such as those you often find via Kazaa. You are less likely to find viruses when looking for legal files seeded by a known source, such as those you often find via bittorent.

With fileplanet, you never really know. They do try to scan incoming files, but the definitions are a little dated. In any case, if I must use fileplanet, I always wait a while and check the file comments first. More often than viruses, I see incomplete/broken files (and again, no cksum available to check), or files followed by a replacement (updated/fixed) patch versions. You can download twice, or read about it in the comments first and download the final.

Better, download it the fastest and easier way, but be sure to get a good checksum (MD5 or whatever) from the trusted original provider or one of the many "secure file" lists available on the internet, and compare it to the file you download. If it differs, the file is either trojaned or broken, thus deletable/redownloadable.

Re:Poor use for Kazaa (1)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186932)

BitTorrent is an exception, because it hasn't taken off yet (lil billy teh h4xxor isn't using it)

And if it ever does, it will be its death. It's already blocked where I go to school. BitTorrent has this nasty tendancy to completely and totally flood networks. And because of this, as it becomes more popular, more sites are going to block it to try and keep bandwidth available for other users.

Try it on your home broadband link. As you hit higher and higher upload/download links, try and do anything else and notice that it appears ungodly slow. This is because BitTorrent is already saturating your network, and everything else has to fight with it to get an openning. On larger networks, the solution becomes simple: outright block it.

Read my much longer rant about it [slashdot.org] in my journal. Basically, something needs to be done to prevent sites from just blocking it as a bandwidth hog. As it stands, using BitTorrent as the only distribution means will block a fair number of users.

Re:Poor use for Kazaa (1)

damiam (409504) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186957)

Most of the nonstandard bittorrent clients include support for bandwidth throttling. Hopefully, the official client will too in the near future.

Re:OT: good use for BitTorrent (1)

Saeger (456549) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186906)

p2p distribution would mean that FilePlanet couldn't charge for access to "premium" centralized FTP servers, so it won't happen.

Sites like FileFront [slashdot.org] and GameTab [gametab.com] are the fuuuuuture, Marty. These sites are really only useful as an initial index source you can trust (like ShareReactor, but legal), and for aggregating eyeballs to increase the availability of the files.

--

Re:OT: good use for BitTorrent (1)

randyest (589159) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187046)

... FileFront and GameTab ... are really only useful as an initial index source you can trust

You trust [planetannihilation.com]fileplanet?

I'll save you a click and the approximately 45 ad impressions you'd suffer as you try to scroll down to read the relevant entry at that link:

From planetannihilation.com:

Virus Warning, Thursday, June 19, 2003

If you've downloaded the Cavedog maps from Fileplanet (all except Tropical Islands) I suggest that you scan them for viruses. We apologise for any inconvenience caused by this, I can't remember which virus it was, something to do with Kazah however and was not very harmful to you rmachine. I recommend downloading something like Norton Antivirus Trial Version if you are not sure or don't have one. The maps have all been removed to prevent similar accidental infections from happening, until we can reupload them, only Tropical Islands is available since it was originally in .UFO format rather then the .EXE setup file which was infected.

I'll be enforcing the mandatory scanning of all files being uploaded to Fileplanet and the TADC ftp due to this.

Posted by: Zxythe

Emphasis mine. Note the future tense in reference to the scanning of uploading files. Then note the date. Gametab is no better (and neither are most everyone else, really). You need trusted checksums/MD5 hashes for the source file, then it doesn't matter where you get it. (Except you may have to download it again if you get a bad, broken, or infected copy, but that's still better than not knowing and having to double-click that .exe, scanned or not -- there are new viruses, after all, so scanners will fail at some point . . . )

Who do you trust, again? :)

Re:OT: good use for BitTorrent (1)

Saeger (456549) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187088)

You trustfileplanet?

Eh? How do you figure that from my post? I wasn't badmouthing p2p index sites when I said that they're "really only useful as sources you can trust", because that's the truth: you get the secure file hashes FROM these sites that you trust. the md4 hash is in the ed2k URL with eDonkey, and the sha1 hash is in the .torrent file with BitTorrent.

--

Re:OT: good use for BitTorrent (1)

crt (44106) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187129)

Note that the files in qusetion here are not official FilePlanet files - they are hosted site files which are posted by the hosted site and do not go through the normal FilePlanet upload/scanning/review process. They are not available on the FilePlanet site itself, only through the hosted site.

A minor quibble or two (1)

echucker (570962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186751)

The stick grenades aren't stuck in the Wehrmacht soldiers' belts. (Disclaimer: clips on grenade heads were pretty uncommon). Other than that, they have done an incredible job modelling the gear. I did WWII re-enacting during my high school and college years, and have most of the gear seen in the screenshots sitting in my closet. The Kar98k, Moisin Nagant, P-38, PPSh-41, and MP-38 all get high marks, with the possible except of the G43, which looks like they modelled it with a bayonet lug it never had.

Is it real? Or is it unreal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186778)

in-depth infantry combat on the Eastern Front of WWII. With the emphasis on realism and authenticity, the Soviet Red Army meets the German Army on the ground across battlefields from Kiev through Stalingrad and on to the Reichstag in Berlin. Real weapons. Real battles. Real soldiers.'

With all this emphasis on "reality" and taking from real battles, I wonder what percentage of kids get their knowlege of historical events from video games? Is that a bad thing?

Getting UT2003 working with kernel 2.6.0 (1)

Saeger (456549) | more than 10 years ago | (#7186829)

FYI: If you're running a 2.6.0-* kernel with the LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 fix for RPM installs, you may be getting a UT2003 startup error like:

Could not load OpenGL library
History:
Exiting due to error

The nonobvious but simple fix is to modify your 'ut2003-demo' or 'ut2003' startup script by adding "unset LD_ASSUME_KERNEL" at the beginning, and adding it "export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5" back at the end (so RPM will work again).

Google couldn't help me out with this problem, so I wasted an hour messing around with libraries and linker crap before stumbling upon the fix (and google will eventually index this post for someone else... looking for candle trucks to rent.)

--

Re:Getting UT2003 working with kernel 2.6.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7186874)

more evidence that linux will never be ready for the desktop. esp games.

Re:Getting UT2003 working with kernel 2.6.0 (2, Informative)

ThreeFarthingStone (675618) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187008)

The nonobvious but simple fix is to modify your 'ut2003-demo' or 'ut2003' startup script by adding "unset LD_ASSUME_KERNEL" at the beginning, and adding it "export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5" back at the end (so RPM will work again).

You probably don't need to set LD_ASSUME_KERNEL at the end of the script. Each program has a separate environment, initially inherited from the program that launched it. So "export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5" (in sh and bash scripts) only applies to programs launched by the ut2003 startup script after that line. Since its at the end of the script, it does nothing. In fact, the script would not need that line at all unless it wanted to run RPM.

To demonstrate (on OpenBSD, where LD_ASSUME_KERNEL probably has no meaning):

$ export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5
$ printenv LD_ASSUME_KERNEL
2.2.5
$ cat > sampletfsh
#!/bin/sh
# a script

checkcondition() {
if [ -z "$LD_ASSUME_KERNEL" ]; then
echo ut2003 works, rpm does not
else
echo rpm works, ut2003 does not
fi
}

echo starting...
checkcondition
echo unsetting LD_ASSUME_KERNEL...
unset LD_ASSUME_KERNEL
echo pretending to run ut2003...
checkcondition
$ chmod 700 sampletfsh
$ ./sampletfsh
starting...
rpm works, ut2003 does not
unsetting LD_ASSUME_KERNEL...
pretending to run ut2003...
ut2003 works, rpm does not
$ printenv LD_ASSUME_KERNEL
2.2.5
$

First I set LD_ASSUME_KERNEL pretending I had RPM on a Linux 2.6 system. Then I wrote and executed a script. The script unset LD_ASSUME_KERNEL so that ut2003 would start working (but rpm would not). However, even though I did not redefine LD_ASSUME_KERNEL at the bottom of the script, the shell from which I called the script still kept the old 2.2.5 value. The script could have been a ut2003 startup script.

One only needs to add the first "unset LD_ASSUME_KERNEL" line.

Re:Getting UT2003 working with kernel 2.6.0 (1)

Saeger (456549) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187098)

Ah, yes, the forked shell is a new process and doesn't affect the parent, so only unset is needed for the new instance ... thanks for the verbosity. :)

--

Right (1)

pimpinmonk (238443) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187029)

Real weapons. Real battles. Real soldiers.'
Oooh ooh, does this mean we get real sieges, real starvation, real civilian casualties, and real soldiersicles too?

The soviet front was horifically bloody in not-your-typical-war ways... the fighting was not the part you learn about in history class :-/

Symbols of the enemy. (1)

Moose-Alini (666859) | more than 10 years ago | (#7187037)

Something that has really been bothering me lately. I don't know about this mod, but in games and movies lately, there seems to be an obvious lack of Nazis. In games like Battlefield 1942, movies like Enemies at the Gate, and the Pianist, just to name a few, the Nazi foe has been reduced to nothing but German. You won't find them referred to as Nazis, or see a single swastika. In the Wolfenstein games, and older movies, you cant go two feet without seeing that broken cross, but now they opt for the Teutonic knights symbols, and the Falcon, avoiding labeling the German menace as Nazi's at all. In Battlefield 1942, they do the same with the symbol of the rising sun. Come to think of it, in my high-school history classes, when learning about world war two, I cant recall Nazi ever being said, and the death/labor camps only being mentioned in passing. No matter how offensive it is, it did happen, and we can't just forget it and act like Nazis never existed.

Re:Symbols of the enemy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7187144)

Blame German law. Distribution of games containing symbols of illegal organisations is a crime in Germany. That's why many publishers opt not to include swastikas in the first place.
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