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Using Macs In The Work Place

Hemos posted more than 10 years ago | from the should-be-more-support dept.

Networking (Apple) 593

Kelly McNeill writes "It's been said that bringing a Macintosh into a corporate environment dominated by Windows-based PCs is not an easy task. Once you cut through the corporate red tape, then get through ignorant IT staff you still have to connect and gain access to all the services on the network. osViews editorial contributor Kevin Ledgister took on this challenge and passed the test with flying colors."

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593 comments

1st Pr0st33Z! (-1)

News For Turds (580751) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199648)

suck it down, whore bags!

fuck you all

Re:1st Pr0st33Z! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199679)

He's got our number all right.

Slashdotted allready? (-1, Redundant)

Bloxyman (710603) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199657)

That was fast!

Re:Slashdotted allready? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199673)

I somehow think Kevin Ledgister's attempts to get his mac connected to the network, perhaps weren't as succesfull as indicated.

i just woke up (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199663)

after staying up for 38 hours straight........

Anyone having trouble accessing the website? (1)

herrvinny (698679) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199664)

Anyone having trouble accessing the website?
All I get is:

Problem in Database Connection

This Website is powered by PostNuke

Although this site is running the PostNuke software
it has no other connection to the PostNuke Developers.
Please refrain from sending messages about this site or its content
to the PostNuke team, the end will result in an ignored e-mail.

Re:Anyone having trouble accessing the website? (0)

Selecter (677480) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199869)

I think the site has been slashnuked. :D They better change their name to something else - who in their right mind would name server software which is supposed to convey a air of solid up time and speed - for something that suggests death and nuclear winter?

Re:Anyone having trouble accessing the website? (1)

gsdali (707124) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199895)

OSViews does not have the highedt availability at the best of times. No wonder it collapsed under the slashdot onslaught. No matter, the article was not terribly informative. It would have been nothing at all if he had not had one or two problems.

Hosting (2, Funny)

suwain_2 (260792) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199665)

I don't think the IT people realized that by "bring my Mac to work," he actually meant "Host a website that's going to be Slashdotted on it."

Tee hee hee (3, Insightful)

CGP314 (672613) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199671)

then get through ignorant IT staff

Wouldn't the IT staff be the ones who want to make the change to Apple?

Whoops! I forgot, the problems with Windows ensure permanent employment for techies.

Re:Tee hee hee (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199739)

Right because the IT department ensures their jobs by constantly recovering Windows installs that get fubarred by corrupt OS updates [slashdot.org] and application updates [techtv.com] that erase your entire hard drive. They really should switch to Apple and put themselves out of a job.

Re:Tee hee hee (4, Funny)

clifyt (11768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199804)

"Whoops! I forgot, the problems with Windows ensure permanent employment for techies"

Hell yeah man!!!

Do you think we would PURPOSELY kill our employment? Back when I started at my job, they were considering switching to the PC from Macs. I convinced them that was the right choice.

Now I don't have to worry that this was the right choice as its the right choice for me. I stay employed and they think I'm doing something because I'm running around like a mad man keeping my office together and now that we are a M$ office, I have put 3 other techies to work to help me out.

With the Mac office, it was ONLY me and I was doing nothing most of the day.

I do however run 2 OS X machines at home...I don't have the time to deal with PCs except for gameplay there (waiting to see how well Quake runs on the G5s before I switch up and finally get rid of my last Win Box and move it to being another Linux box....)

No Macs For Businesses!!!!

Re:Tee hee hee (2, Informative)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199838)

"+5 Funny," my ass. I have started to believe this "joke" to be entirely true. You cannot imagine the amount of resistance some company's IT show when you start mentioning replacing some of the Windows boxes with Linux and running Samba. (No one needs a Win2k server and Backup Domain Controller for a ~10 PC, closed-net lab) The only defense they have is that they can't support it. And when you tell them that you don't need theer support, you can handle it, they get extra defensive. Interesting, and sad. Maybe they enjoyed the 36-hour marathon of cleaning up our msblaster problem.

ok... so you can use a mac in the workplace... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199675)

...but why would you want to?

Re:ok... so you can use a mac in the workplace... (1)

sp3c1alK (604261) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199716)

Not that I would make the choice to bring a Mac into my environment, but way to set a good example of 'ignorant IT staff'. I'm sure you've done a lot of research into the subject.

Damn. (1)

lfm_the_couch (663351) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199677)

Sounded like an interesting article... guess I'll have to read it later, or maybe tomorrow.

IT Policy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199678)

IT policy should never have allowed a Mac on the network in the first place.

Re:IT Policy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199771)

the funny part is that a IT group that is that limited as to "not allow a MAC" is a bunch of moronic idiots.

Business is about making MONEY.. and business IT is about doing whatever you need to to give those sales people or other employees what they need or want to make MORE MONEY.

only complete no-talent nitwit asshats like you make such stupid statements.

Re:IT Policy (1)

Cat_Byte (621676) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199883)

Perhaps they have a security policy that checks for critical security holes and it's not configured for Mac? I can see security not allowing home pc's with alternative os's that they can't secure on their corporate network. It's as scary as those ppl who want their home pc to dial into RAS with full access to department files on a mapped drive. You don't know if they let their kids play on it or not. My 2 yr old niece did a nice job of hitting enter while the C: drive was highlighted and tagging about 200 files for delete. I caught her when it was asking "are you sure you want to delete these files?". It could happen....

Sexual Discrimination (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199682)


i think its disgusting, he can't help it if he's a raging homosexual Macintosh user, still im sure the mailroom "boys" will be extra friendly now

Would somebody please... (3, Funny)

xanderwilson (662093) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199686)

supress this article ASAP? Everyone has to use Windows. It's important. For our economy. Or something.

Alex.

Re:Would somebody please... (4, Funny)

skaffen42 (579313) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199736)

Don't worry. Slashdot is doing a pretty good job of suppressing the article. :)

Re:Would somebody please... (1)

DeltaSigma (583342) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199955)

Yeah, we're kind of self defeating that way.

I've integrated Macs into PC offices before... (2, Informative)

farrellj (563) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199687)

And I have had no problems, really. Once you get the TCP/IP stack on the Mac going, and Netatalk on the Linux server, they are just like another node on the network...they can access the internet, and print, and store files on the linux box.

ttyl
Farrell

Re:I've integrated Macs into PC offices before... (1)

Jellybob (597204) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199719)

It's a shame this is an article about using Macs in the Windows office, instead of a Linux one.

Re:I've integrated Macs into PC offices before... (1)

rootofevil (188401) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199822)

well given that the editors have had a giant hardon for OSX lately (not commenting on justification for said hardon), im not at all surprised this made the front page instead of just in the apple section.

Re:I've integrated Macs into PC offices before... (1)

Zelet (515452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199842)

A Mac in a Linux office is a no-brainer. It works seamlessly. The only reason a Mac is harder to get working in a Windows Network is because Windows always messes up networks.

Re:I've integrated Macs into PC offices before... (0, Flamebait)

erikdotla (609033) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199852)

If it was a Linux office being integrated, the poster wouldn't have referred to the IT staff as ignorant.

Not all IT staff who run Windows networks are ignorant. Try integrating your hot new mac onto a Windows 2003 AD network without using "Classic". Good luck.

The ignorant people are the zealot workers who love thier flavor of the year OS and disrupt a homogeneous network with a components that make it heterogeneous, and wind up costing the company money.

Re:I've integrated Macs into PC offices before... (1)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199918)

There are some limitations and difficulties with Active Directory under Jaguar. However I believe that Panther (coming out in a little over a week) is a full Active Directory player and can even store your home directory on the Windows server for proper roaming.

Re:I've integrated Macs into PC offices before... (2, Insightful)

TekkaDon (223734) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199917)

Once you get the TCP/IP stack on the Mac going? Netatalk?

You are probably talking about Mac OS 9 or earlier. The name of the game at this point is Mac OS X, now in black fur with its 10.3 version (aka Panther). No need for Netatalk (no need for AppleTalk at all) and TCP/IP is there, in fact the backbone of OS X communications.

Merging a Mac OS X Panther computer in ANY corporate environment today is easy. Just plug and play. You can even store your user directory in a Windows server, like any PC user. TCP/IP, SMB sharepoints and print services, CUPS, NFS, WebDAV, FTP, VPN, LDAP... anything that has to do with networking, anything you can think about is present in Mac OS X 10.2 or 10.3 (the later being more complete and smooth).

And the fun thing is that no setup is needed for all this stuff to work. It seamlessly integrates, fire and forget and enjoy.

Ignorant IT staff is right (2, Informative)

tulmad (25666) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199688)

And they're generally the worst part of it. With Samba now (and going to 3.0 soon), you can basically do whatever you need on a corporate network with OS X. The only problem that remains is Exchange. Even though MS supposedly updated Entourage to deal with it, Exchange support still sucks. Of course, if you're lucky enough to have a company with a Citrix server, there's a native OS X client for that.

Don't need Citrix (1)

Wudbaer (48473) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199724)

Of course, if you're lucky enough to have a company with a Citrix server, there's a native OS X client for that.

You even don't need that, a W2K server licensed as Terminal Services Application server (still costs some money, but considerably less than Citrix) is fully sufficient as MS has been offering a RDP client for OSX for quite some time.

Re:Ignorant IT staff is right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199782)

With Samba now (and going to 3.0 soon), you can basically do whatever you need on a corporate network with OS X.

Stable versions of Samba stil don't work with native-mode Win2k domains. If you have a native-mode domain, you'll have to install Microsoft Services for UNIX in order to connect OSX/Linux/etc clients.

PostNuke ... (1)

AWxSlashdot (687701) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199693)

is rather heavy for the server ... this won't help surviving slashdotting :( Anyone hosting a basic nonPHP powered copy ??? AWx

Is SMB support fixed yet? (0, Flamebait)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199695)

While running Jaguar I noticed that the smb kernel module on the BSD side which provides the smbfs share access is, well, stupid. For instance it believes that windows does not allow certain characters like [ and ] in filenames, and gives you a really meaningless error about files not being found if you try to copy them to a SMB share. (I don't remember testing copying from one.) I ended up using DAVE 4.1 to work around this.

This was also on a Blue and White G3, revision 1, which has an IDE chip bug. Many hard drives corrupt data when hooked up to a rev1 yosemite. The workaround straight from apple's support library? Buy FWB toolkit or similar, and use a slower (non-UDMA) transfer mode with non-apple hard disks.

So on one machine, to get ordinary compatibility with established standards, two pieces of third party commercial software were necessary. Thanks, Apple!

Re:Is SMB support fixed yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199751)

since when is SMB a 'standard'? Widely used, but hardly a standard.

Also, the blue and white G3 IDE bug sucks, but that machine is going on 5 years old...why don't you upgrade? Or at least buy a $99 ATA/100 adapter. Geezus, why not slit your wrist if you can't afford that, you poor dumb fuck.

Re:Is SMB support fixed yet? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199828)

$99 is more than the cost of a 100 gig hard drive. Are you telling me that because Apple fucked up it's reasonable for me to double the price of adding a hard drive to my system? For that matter, the same product for a PC is $20, or like $50 for a cheapie raid controller. Guess you feel I should be paying the apple tax. I think I'll pass.

Re:Is SMB support fixed yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199944)

Yeah. You see, the problem is I think you are making this up. Maybe you should provide documentation of this claimed fact you keep spouting.

Re:Is SMB support fixed yet? (1)

codifus (692621) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199786)

I've experienced this problem on a Windows only network. When trying to copy a Windows 95 file to an NT4 share, i would occaisionally get those "file not found" issues. It turned out, that, as you all well know by now, that Windows carries 2 filenames for every file. One is the 8.3 name, and the other is 255-character-that-even allows-spaces name. The problems stems from the fact that Windows NT had a different 255 character format than 95. So, when trasnferring over, something got kludged. If I kept the filename conforming to 8.3 standard, the problems disappeared. I'm sure if you try that with Jaguar, it'll work. It is a workaround and not a fix, I know, but at least it will get you going. CD

Re:Is SMB support fixed yet? (0)

netglen (253539) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199892)

When trying to copy a Windows 95 file to an NT4 share

I'm hoping this is an old situation that happened to you years ago. I can understand somebody still running Windows NT Server, but how can anybody still be using Win95?

Before the age of OS-X, I want to remember that Apple computers had a long lifespans. Has OS-X killed the long lifespan of Apple computers? I remember seeing some faculty puttering around with some Macs that were approaching 10 years old.

Re:Is SMB support fixed yet? (1)

mark_space2001 (570644) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199894)

Just for the record, the disallowed characters in a windows pathname are: \ / : * ? |

If anyone cares.

Re:Is SMB support fixed yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199920)

I hope you still aren't using that 4 year old computer with Mac OS 8.5.1. Oh wait. You aren't. Yet somehow, magically, you are experiencing a corrupted data bug which was stamped out 4 years ago. Oh wait. Maybe you are.

I have to say one thing. (4, Interesting)

Raven42rac (448205) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199700)

The author appears to have done zero research into how to get a Mac talking on a Windows network, if he had done maybe 1-2 hours of research, he would have saved himself 2-3 weeks of grief. Instead of not having any clue on how he got it to work, he would have known exactly how to set things up how he wanted. I don't get it, why spend the money on a Mac if you are not prepared to do any research on how to make it do the things you need to do? Would you buy a car without knowing whether or not it came with an engine? Or if that engine would play nice with your gas? I ordered a 12" Powerbook and I am going to make damn sure I can make it play nice with any other boxes/servers that I may have to interact with (Windows, Linux, other Macs, etc.) by the time it gets here.

why? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199701)

why the hell would you use a mac in the work place? you don't have the software and no support from IT...oh thats right mac people are shit monkey fucktarded asshats...

Re:why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199723)

VoIP still has one problem: voice is simply less flexible useful than text messaging, for most people.

Right! you cant have any of the windows patching or hotfix fun, no fun when the next virius or worm owns the corperate network, and not having Corperate tech support means your computer will run properly.

Damn it sucks not using windows!

Ooops, I made a typo... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199931)

I meant to say "Why the hell would I use a mac in the work place? We already have terminals with the little pictures of the burgers and fries on the buttons...oh that's right, I'm a shit monkey fucktarded asshat..."

Sorry for the mix-up,

Anonymous Coward

not feasible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199702)

It's useless. lets say I want to put Macs in the usual Office environment. G5's are horribly overpowered and overpriced for the task. Leaves i and eMacs. Both come with integrated screens. That means all the screens I have around from the last batch of hardware purchases are useless. Also, if in an eMac either screen or computer hardware is fried, I have to throw one functional part of it away. Doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint.

-t

Re:not feasible (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199754)

Also, if in an eMac either screen or computer hardware is fried, I have to throw one functional part of it away.

you are absolutely correct. as it is 100% impossible to get a MAC repaired.

Please, send me your mac's that are broken and you HAVE to throw away... I'll give you $5.00 each for them!

Re:not feasible (1)

Daytona955i (448665) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199766)

Not really because you can have a dual monitor setup and have lots of monitor space.

Re:not feasible (1)

krilli (303497) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199900)

This is true, hadn't thought of it this way. Although you *could* get G4s, still. A basic monitorless G4 costs $1300 - the same as a basic iMac. Apple sort of needs a thin-client-ish box, it seems.

How dare you! (2, Funny)

Medievalist (16032) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199707)


Ignorant IT staff?

We here on the IT staff are exceptionally bright and well-informed. And don't you forget it!

What is a mac, anyway?

Re:How dare you! (1)

JamesP (688957) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199788)

Guy: I would like to know how to set my PowerBook in the company network...

IT: Weel, you should click the start button, then control panel...

Re:How dare you! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199906)

And that's the problem with Macs in general. It's users. To these people, anyone not using a Mac is ignorant. Don't get me wrong, Macs are interesting machines, it's just that one doesn't want to be associated with people who are "smarter than the rest."

Re:How dare you! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199915)

What is a mac, anyway?

It's two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun. Quite tasty actually.

Been there, done that... (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199708)

I recently brought my Powerbook at work.
I am a Unix Sysadmin.
The only thing I had to do was to obtain a Microsoft Office License from the Business support division.
Now, Entourage can connect to Exchange servers while most of my work is done using Word and the Terminal.
It's really good to work using my favourite tool.

A Mac in the Enterprise (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199721)


Contributor: Kevin Ledgister :: Open Content

"It's been said that bringing a Macintosh into a corporate environment dominated by Windows-based PCs is not an easy task. Once you cut through the corporate red tape, then get through ignorant IT staff you still have to connect and gain access to all the services on the network. osViews editorial contributor Kevin Ledgister took on this challenge and passed the test with flying colors."
---

For the last two years, I have had to use a Dell laptop at work running Windows 2000 in a mid size company with 300-400 employees. After suffering through several complete rebuilds, blue screens, as well as dealing with patches and security upgrades, I decided that enough is enough.

I ordered the brand new 12" PowerBook on my own and decided that this would be my daily computer to replace my Dell. Quite a few people were curious at this silver beauty compared to the generic charcoal laptops on their desks -- and some even said that their next system will be a Mac too.

As I've come to learn however, integrating a Mac into an all PC world is not without its challenges.

IT Ignorance

The first challenge was dealing with an IT department that was completely ignorant of the Mac platform. Although they were helpful and curious about the Macintosh, they really couldn't offer much help so I was on my own. At my place of employment, they use Active Directory and after doing a lot of reading on the subject, I realized that it was not going to be the easiest transition.

When my PowerBook arrived, I immediately plugged a network cable into it, but for some reason, it was not being assigned an IP address. I checked all the settings and they were correct. I even plugged my laptop into a router outside of our network and it worked fine. But inside our corporate network, I would only get a 169... number which meant that I wasn't getting one from the network server.

I downloaded ADmitMac from Thursby hoping that it would help connect me to the laptop but that required a valid IP address as well so I still was left out in the cold.

Frustrated, I connected my PowerBook using the phone line by my desk and dialed into our corporate network, which was slow, but at least I could browse the Internet and check email to our Exchange servers running Outlook for Windows under Citrix. No one was able to help explain why this was happening. Not Apple, nor our IT department.

Ups and Downs

After two days of this, I got disconnected again from the phone connection but iChat stayed active and I was still getting messages! I opened up the System Preferences and suddenly I had an assigned IP address. I ran to the IT department asking for an explanation for what they did, to which they replied, "Nothing."

So now I had high-speed access to the network but not all was solved.

I still couldn't browse network shares and I tried joining our Active Directory domain using Admit Mac but it wouldn't let me join. So, I fired up Virtual PC, installed Windows 2000, and asked an IT person to join Win2k to the domain and it worked. I was also able to browse the network using a Citrix client but this was still hokey.

Little did I know that ADmit Mac didn't work because I didn't have rights to join a computer to the domain. But a week after I got all this up and running, I accidentally chose the Connect to Server function when I meant to go to a folder and Voila! I could see network shares!

I don't know when this happened but I could now browse through the servers and mount them on my desktop. I ran back to IT again asking if they had turned on Services for Mac, which I had asked them to consider. Again they said that no changes were made to the network at all.

Another unsolved mystery perhaps but I didn't care. No longer would I need to go through a Windows interface for network shares. As a side benefit, I uninstalled the evaluation copy of ADmit Mac and everything still worked fine which saved me $150 to buy it. However, others may not have this luck and ADmit Mac may be the ticket to survival in the Windows jungle. It seems to be a well thought out solution.

But there was this email thing.

The Exchange Dilemma

My employer is still running Exchange 5.5 which has no OS X native way of using public folders, Exchange Address Book, or creating meetings. Earlier, I was accessing email through Citrix or sometimes through Virtual PC, but I really wanted to do as much in the Mac OS as I could.

Then I downloaded Outlook 2001 for OS 8-9 and it connected instantly and ran much smoother than either of the two methods I used previously. The only downside is that Outlook for Mac does not render HTML email properly. But that is a small price to pay.

Fortunately, this situation won't go on forever as IT is considering upgrading to Exchange 2003. At that time, I hope Apple releases an update to iCal to connect to Exchange so I can use all Apple apps for Exchange connectivity. Others have expressed this interest as well, so I hope Apple will do it. It shouldn't be hard, as iCal already uses the WebDAV protocol, which is how Entourage and Mail (in Panther) are connecting to Exchange.

The Acid Test

The company I work for develops and runs proprietary vertical applications that are PC only. To truly replace my Dell, it had to be able to run the applications that I work with. The problem was that the one key application I needed to run used a software dongle to access the setup utility. Ouch!

I had read on numerous forums that Virtual PC 6.1 did not play well with software dongles. Despite that, I figured that I would try. So I plugged in the USB dongle and of course, Windows tried to load an installer for it but it didn't work.

I then ran the dongle installshield, installed the software and then tried to run the setup utility. It worked!

Not only did it work, but I also launched an online meeting through our online web cast company and ran the software and it all showed up on the attendee's computer just as if I was running on a PC (although slightly slower).

Next, I had to set up a network printer. This however, was a no-brainer. Once I had obtained an IP address, I opened up the Print Center to select a printer and it listed all the networked printers, so I selected the one I needed by it's IP address. This printer was an OEM unit so I guessed the manufacturer's printer driver from the list and I was able to gain access just fine.

At the End of the Day

I think my initial connection issues were somewhat of an anomaly, but since ironing them out, the PowerBook has become a tremendous asset. I run more applications simultaneously because I can do it so smoothly.

My Dell is a 1 GHz unit with 512mb ram but I didn't like running more than three or four apps at once because the performance became sluggish. On the Mac, I often run six or eight applications at once, including OS 9 and Windows 2000 in Virtual PC. Three open OS's at once plus playing music, downloading files and running updates is an amazing feat.

Having a PowerBook has made work fun again. The Dell has been gathering dust for over a week now and does little more than just take up space.

As others around the company begin see my PowerBook's features and power in the presentations I give, I have a feeling that I may not be the only Mac user for too long. ::

Author: Kevin Ledgister is the sole Mac user for a Midwest technology company. A digital "voice crying in the wilderness."

My Personal Experience (Macs Rule) (2, Interesting)

artlu (265391) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199726)

My company specializes in Business Process Optimization (E-Integrate LLC.) [eintegrate.net] We use macs for nearly all of our programing, movie making, and Oracle database development and administration. As a company, we are trying to move solely to Linux and OSX. There have only been a few tasks where windows is still needed and those are slowly diminishing such as Oracle JDeveloper development and terminal services connections. Each month we are expanding our employees to have mostly powerbooks, however, I am still forced to carry around my powerbook and vaio for a few more months :(. We currently have about 0.8 macs/employee and about 0.2 windows machines/employee with 8 Linux Servers running Oracle Collaboration Suite and 9i.

Sorry about rambling, just wanted to throw in my $0.02.
AJ

Re:My Personal Experience (Macs Rule) (1)

horsie (91009) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199784)

Oracle already has JDeveloper for Mac OS X out, have you given this a try? Available for download on Technet.

Re:My Personal Experience (Macs Rule) (1)

artlu (265391) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199943)

Yes, but not the version of JDeveloper for doing Oracle Application Framework development. That version is 5.7H2 which does not exist for the mac (YET,but hopefully soon).

This was a problem?? (1)

Cat_Byte (621676) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199729)

I've never known this to be a problem. Most places I worked the cute girls down in marketing "needed" Macs to do their graphic designs. I hooked them up, loaded the client, and it worked. Maybe I missed something that broke in newer versions of MS and OSX in my unemployment downtime.

This isn't a troll...seriously...it's a problem?

Are you kidding me? (0)

Tassleman (66753) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199732)

I can't read the article because it's slashdotted, but from the submission it sounds to me like he's trying to bring his personal Apple to his office and expect it to work with the company network.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

This isn't college where you can bring your own hardware and software and expect to get along with it. In an office environment Desktops and Laptops are provided with COMPANY software, usually from a COMPANY image, set up to connect to the COMPANY network. If you're expecting to bring your own random piece of PERSONAL hardware and get the IS people to make special accomidations for one user you've got a screw loose.

Amen brother (1)

Lamont (3347) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199802)

abso-frickin-lutely.

and I'm sick of articles that talk about "ignorant IT staff" being the problem for mac users. mac's aren't rocket science, they talk tcp/ip like anyone else, it's just really not that complicated....any half decent IT guy can get it on the network. that's not the issue though.

the issue as you pointed out is brining in unknown personal pc's and attaching it to a corporate network. That's a security back-door if I ever saw one....

Re:Amen brother (1)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199945)

The minute a worker takes home a windows laptop, it becomes an unknown vis-a-vis network security. Historically, IT staffers have been pretty unhelpful to Mac users. This is in general; there are always those wonderful exceptions. How many corporate mac users have had to do their own tech support, because of the unwillingness and/or ignorance of the IT staff? Thankfully, this hasn't been too difficult to do, since Macs tend to be more trouble free for the user. This situation does seem to be changing, with the advent of OS X and with linux making great strides in the workplace. (Maybe that's because the type of person who will take the trouble to learn linux will also be willing to pick up on the ins and outs of another OS.)

Re:Are you kidding me? (1)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199825)

And apparently, your screw is a little too tight, although you should be excusedm since the article is having "availability issues". He asked his IT dept. for accomadations, but, understandably, they weren't able and/or willing to help him. Also, he didn't really know what he was doing, or how to go about it. And it worked anyway. He had to try a lot of different things, and he's not even sure how he got it to work, but it works. That's Macintosh and OS X for you.

Re:Are you kidding me? (1)

krilli (303497) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199864)

I somewhat agree with you even if I don't want to. My wishful thinking is that if everyone properly follow standards that have been established by qualified people, this kind of company-approved-only thinking will become redundant.

There is no universal law that says that personal hardware connected to a corporate network will always have to lead to disaster, although right now, in practice, it might.

Re:Are you kidding me? (1)

Del Vach (449393) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199923)

Then my screws must be fairly loose.

When I was hired a few years ago my company purchased a G4/400 (rev. 1) for me to use, partially since we design web-based software and there was no QA for Mac users.

Two years later and I was ready for a Powerbook(17). So now I come in every day, connect my Ethernet, monitor, keyboard, etc., connect to the Samba share, and I'm good to go. The company didn't have to make a single change to get my machine working on the network, able to browse the Windows share, or any of the complications the author reports.

I'm sure individual experiences will depend largely on company setup, but I can honestly say I have less day-to-day problems than I've seen with the Windows users.

Highschool was... interesting with steve jobs :D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199742)

I knew Steve in highschool. Ole Steve. Yea he was smart but... he didnt have any real skills to show the local pizzhut/computer club.

I always though of him as a bit of a circle jerker. He never had a woman or girl back then, although none of us did, feminism was all the rouge so there was really no point in trying to snag a date. I mean girls are in theory great, but when one kicks you in the balls and is all self ritious about it... well you usually beat the shit out of them with your back hand, back in the day you got thanked for holding the door... but in HS with feminazism being pumped into the girls hearts... millitant shit.

Anyway we almost always outfoxed him in Assembly, and plain new C (snuck into the UNI sometimes to play with the PDPs :D... unfortunatly it was next to the womens studies office which we trashed, alot.

Why is it difficult? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199744)

I don't understand it.

Mac supports standard TCP/IP protocol for networking.
Mac has a popular Office software.
If you don't use any in-house software specially written for Windows, you will not have any problem.
Except for that the MS Office files created on Mac may not appear as they are on Windows MS Office. ( It's MS Office bug. )

Re:Why is it difficult? (1)

E-Lad (1262) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199948)


Yeah, it should be that simple, right? I'm in that "almost there" situation. I bring my 15" PowerBook to work and use it almost exclusively except for one thing - I need to keep my WinXP desktop around solely for the purpose of using Outlook to see my work's Exchange servers. Yeah, I could use Entourage to do that, but I don't like running it and Mail.app at the same time. Just like I don't like running Explorer and Safari at the same time.

Luckily, though, Panther's Mail.app has Exchange support [thinksecret.com] , so all I need to do is hang tight for a few more days.

Nuke'em until they glow in the dark (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199752)

News:
TIKRIT, Iraq [yahoo.com] - Saddam Hussein has been hiding in his hometown Tikrit and is believed to be exerting influence within the resistance that has been killing American soldiers at a rate of nearly one every two days, a U.S. officer said Monday.

"He could be here right now," Smith added. "At the least, he is maintaining a strong influence in the area."

I don't get it.

Why don't they just nuke every fucking place this fuckup could be hiding in. It would cost just some filthy muslim "souls" that are on the road to hell anyway. Did they give us a chance when they brought down the twin towers? No. If it weren't for the bleeding heart left-wing whinging liberals, it would be an eye for an eye time already. They kill 3000 us, we'll kill 30000.

Full Text (4, Insightful)

coolmacdude (640605) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199767)

Contributor: Kevin Ledgister
:: Open Content

"It's been said that bringing a Macintosh into a corporate environment dominated by Windows-based PCs is not an easy task. Once you cut through the corporate red tape, then get through ignorant IT staff you still have to connect and gain access to all the services on the network. osViews editorial contributor Kevin Ledgister took on this challenge and passed the test with flying colors."

For the last two years, I have had to use a Dell laptop at work running Windows 2000 in a mid size company with 300-400 employees. After suffering through several complete rebuilds, blue screens, as well as dealing with patches and security upgrades, I decided that enough is enough.

I ordered the brand new 12" PowerBook on my own and decided that this would be my daily computer to replace my Dell. Quite a few people were curious at this silver beauty compared to the generic charcoal laptops on their desks -- and some even said that their next system will be a Mac too.

As I've come to learn however, integrating a Mac into an all PC world is not without its challenges.

IT Ignorance

The first challenge was dealing with an IT department that was completely ignorant of the Mac platform. Although they were helpful and curious about the Macintosh, they really couldn't offer much help so I was on my own. At my place of employment, they use Active Directory and after doing a lot of reading on the subject, I realized that it was not going to be the easiest transition.

When my PowerBook arrived, I immediately plugged a network cable into it, but for some reason, it was not being assigned an IP address. I checked all the settings and they were correct. I even plugged my laptop into a router outside of our network and it worked fine. But inside our corporate network, I would only get a 169... number which meant that I wasn't getting one from the network server.

I downloaded ADmitMac from Thursby hoping that it would help connect me to the laptop but that required a valid IP address as well so I still was left out in the cold.

Frustrated, I connected my PowerBook using the phone line by my desk and dialed into our corporate network, which was slow, but at least I could browse the Internet and check email to our Exchange servers running Outlook for Windows under Citrix. No one was able to help explain why this was happening. Not Apple, nor our IT department.

Ups and Downs

After two days of this, I got disconnected again from the phone connection but iChat stayed active and I was still getting messages! I opened up the System Preferences and suddenly I had an assigned IP address. I ran to the IT department asking for an explanation for what they did, to which they replied, "Nothing."

So now I had high-speed access to the network but not all was solved.

I still couldn't browse network shares and I tried joining our Active Directory domain using Admit Mac but it wouldn't let me join. So, I fired up Virtual PC, installed Windows 2000, and asked an IT person to join Win2k to the domain and it worked. I was also able to browse the network using a Citrix client but this was still hokey.

Little did I know that ADmit Mac didn't work because I didn't have rights to join a computer to the domain. But a week after I got all this up and running, I accidentally chose the Connect to Server function when I meant to go to a folder and Voila! I could see network shares!

I don't know when this happened but I could now browse through the servers and mount them on my desktop. I ran back to IT again asking if they had turned on Services for Mac, which I had asked them to consider. Again they said that no changes were made to the network at all.

Another unsolved mystery perhaps but I didn't care. No longer would I need to go through a Windows interface for network shares. As a side benefit, I uninstalled the evaluation copy of ADmit Mac and everything still worked fine which saved me $150 to buy it. However, others may not have this luck and ADmit Mac may be the ticket to survival in the Windows jungle. It seems to be a well thought out solution.

But there was this email thing.

The Exchange Dilemma

My employer is still running Exchange 5.5 which has no OS X native way of using public folders, Exchange Address Book, or creating meetings. Earlier, I was accessing email through Citrix or sometimes through Virtual PC, but I really wanted to do as much in the Mac OS as I could.

Then I downloaded Outlook 2001 for OS 8-9 and it connected instantly and ran much smoother than either of the two methods I used previously. The only downside is that Outlook for Mac does not render HTML email properly. But that is a small price to pay.

Fortunately, this situation won't go on forever as IT is considering upgrading to Exchange 2003. At that time, I hope Apple releases an update to iCal to connect to Exchange so I can use all Apple apps for Exchange connectivity. Others have expressed this interest as well, so I hope Apple will do it. It shouldn't be hard, as iCal already uses the WebDAV protocol, which is how Entourage and Mail (in Panther) are connecting to Exchange.

The Acid Test

The company I work for develops and runs proprietary vertical applications that are PC only. To truly replace my Dell, it had to be able to run the applications that I work with. The problem was that the one key application I needed to run used a software dongle to access the setup utility. Ouch! I had read on numerous forums that Virtual PC 6.1 did not play well with software dongles. Despite that, I figured that I would try. So I plugged in the USB dongle and of course, Windows tried to load an installer for it but it didn't work.

I then ran the dongle installshield, installed the software and then tried to run the setup utility. It worked!

Not only did it work, but I also launched an online meeting through our online web cast company and ran the software and it all showed up on the attendee's computer just as if I was running on a PC (although slightly slower).

Next, I had to set up a network printer. This however, was a no-brainer. Once I had obtained an IP address, I opened up the Print Center to select a printer and it listed all the networked printers, so I selected the one I needed by it's IP address. This printer was an OEM unit so I guessed the manufacturer's printer driver from the list and I was able to gain access just fine.

At the End of the Day

I think my initial connection issues were somewhat of an anomaly, but since ironing them out, the PowerBook has become a tremendous asset. I run more applications simultaneously because I can do it so smoothly.

My Dell is a 1 GHz unit with 512mb ram but I didn't like running more than three or four apps at once because the performance became sluggish. On the Mac, I often run six or eight applications at once, including OS 9 and Windows 2000 in Virtual PC. Three open OS's at once plus playing music, downloading files and running updates is an amazing feat.

Having a PowerBook has made work fun again. The Dell has been gathering dust for over a week now and does little more than just take up space.

As others around the company begin see my PowerBook's features and power in the presentations I give, I have a feeling that I may not be the only Mac user for too long. ::

inside and outside (1)

Slowtreme (701746) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199769)

Bringing my iBook inside any of my corp networks have not been a problem, but with external security such a priority now the ability to remote in is getting pretty rough. AT&T Global net dialers, Citrix servers, etc etc. Mac clients for getting past gateways are generaly non-functional. I keep an XP box ruuning at home that I can RDC into and then remote into networks using the Windows clients.

Article Text (0)

stryders (564863) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199770)

Contributor: Kevin Ledgister :: Open Content

"It's been said that bringing a Macintosh into a corporate environment dominated by Windows-based PCs is not an easy task. Once you cut through the corporate red tape, then get through ignorant IT staff you still have to connect and gain access to all the services on the network. osViews editorial contributor Kevin Ledgister took on this challenge and passed the test with flying colors."
---

For the last two years, I have had to use a Dell laptop at work running Windows 2000 in a mid size company with 300-400 employees. After suffering through several complete rebuilds, blue screens, as well as dealing with patches and security upgrades, I decided that enough is enough.

I ordered the brand new 12" PowerBook on my own and decided that this would be my daily computer to replace my Dell. Quite a few people were curious at this silver beauty compared to the generic charcoal laptops on their desks -- and some even said that their next system will be a Mac too.

As I've come to learn however, integrating a Mac into an all PC world is not without its challenges.

IT Ignorance

The first challenge was dealing with an IT department that was completely ignorant of the Mac platform. Although they were helpful and curious about the Macintosh, they really couldn't offer much help so I was on my own. At my place of employment, they use Active Directory and after doing a lot of reading on the subject, I realized that it was not going to be the easiest transition.

When my PowerBook arrived, I immediately plugged a network cable into it, but for some reason, it was not being assigned an IP address. I checked all the settings and they were correct. I even plugged my laptop into a router outside of our network and it worked fine. But inside our corporate network, I would only get a 169... number which meant that I wasn't getting one from the network server.

I downloaded ADmitMac from Thursby hoping that it would help connect me to the laptop but that required a valid IP address as well so I still was left out in the cold.

Frustrated, I connected my PowerBook using the phone line by my desk and dialed into our corporate network, which was slow, but at least I could browse the Internet and check email to our Exchange servers running Outlook for Windows under Citrix. No one was able to help explain why this was happening. Not Apple, nor our IT department.

Ups and Downs

After two days of this, I got disconnected again from the phone connection but iChat stayed active and I was still getting messages! I opened up the System Preferences and suddenly I had an assigned IP address. I ran to the IT department asking for an explanation for what they did, to which they replied, "Nothing."

So now I had high-speed access to the network but not all was solved.

I still couldn't browse network shares and I tried joining our Active Directory domain using Admit Mac but it wouldn't let me join. So, I fired up Virtual PC, installed Windows 2000, and asked an IT person to join Win2k to the domain and it worked. I was also able to browse the network using a Citrix client but this was still hokey.

Little did I know that ADmit Mac didn't work because I didn't have rights to join a computer to the domain. But a week after I got all this up and running, I accidentally chose the Connect to Server function when I meant to go to a folder and Voila! I could see network shares!

I don't know when this happened but I could now browse through the servers and mount them on my desktop. I ran back to IT again asking if they had turned on Services for Mac, which I had asked them to consider. Again they said that no changes were made to the network at all.

Another unsolved mystery perhaps but I didn't care. No longer would I need to go through a Windows interface for network shares. As a side benefit, I uninstalled the evaluation copy of ADmit Mac and everything still worked fine which saved me $150 to buy it. However, others may not have this luck and ADmit Mac may be the ticket to survival in the Windows jungle. It seems to be a well thought out solution.

But there was this email thing.

The Exchange Dilemma

My employer is still running Exchange 5.5 which has no OS X native way of using public folders, Exchange Address Book, or creating meetings. Earlier, I was accessing email through Citrix or sometimes through Virtual PC, but I really wanted to do as much in the Mac OS as I could.

Then I downloaded Outlook 2001 for OS 8-9 and it connected instantly and ran much smoother than either of the two methods I used previously. The only downside is that Outlook for Mac does not render HTML email properly. But that is a small price to pay.

Fortunately, this situation won't go on forever as IT is considering upgrading to Exchange 2003. At that time, I hope Apple releases an update to iCal to connect to Exchange so I can use all Apple apps for Exchange connectivity. Others have expressed this interest as well, so I hope Apple will do it. It shouldn't be hard, as iCal already uses the WebDAV protocol, which is how Entourage and Mail (in Panther) are connecting to Exchange.

The Acid Test

The company I work for develops and runs proprietary vertical applications that are PC only. To truly replace my Dell, it had to be able to run the applications that I work with. The problem was that the one key application I needed to run used a software dongle to access the setup utility. Ouch!

I had read on numerous forums that Virtual PC 6.1 did not play well with software dongles. Despite that, I figured that I would try. So I plugged in the USB dongle and of course, Windows tried to load an installer for it but it didn't work.

I then ran the dongle installshield, installed the software and then tried to run the setup utility. It worked!

Not only did it work, but I also launched an online meeting through our online web cast company and ran the software and it all showed up on the attendee's computer just as if I was running on a PC (although slightly slower).

Next, I had to set up a network printer. This however, was a no-brainer. Once I had obtained an IP address, I opened up the Print Center to select a printer and it listed all the networked printers, so I selected the one I needed by it's IP address. This printer was an OEM unit so I guessed the manufacturer's printer driver from the list and I was able to gain access just fine.

At the End of the Day

I think my initial connection issues were somewhat of an anomaly, but since ironing them out, the PowerBook has become a tremendous asset. I run more applications simultaneously because I can do it so smoothly.

My Dell is a 1 GHz unit with 512mb ram but I didn't like running more than three or four apps at once because the performance became sluggish. On the Mac, I often run six or eight applications at once, including OS 9 and Windows 2000 in Virtual PC. Three open OS's at once plus playing music, downloading files and running updates is an amazing feat.

Having a PowerBook has made work fun again. The Dell has been gathering dust for over a week now and does little more than just take up space.

As others around the company begin see my PowerBook's features and power in the presentations I give, I have a feeling that I may not be the only Mac user for too long. ::

Author: Kevin Ledgister is the sole Mac user for a Midwest technology company. A digital "voice crying in the wilderness."

In case of /. effect, read this post. (1)

Raven42rac (448205) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199779)

A MAC IN AN ENTERPRISE
Contributor: Kevin Ledgister
Posted Oct 12, 2003 - 04:10 PM

"It's been said that bringing a Macintosh into a corporate environment dominated by Windows-based PCs is not an easy task. Once you cut through the corporate red tape, then get through ignorant IT staff you still have to connect and gain access to all the services on the network. osViews editorial contributor Kevin Ledgister took on this challenge and passed the test with flying colors."
---

For the last two years, I have had to use a Dell laptop at work running Windows 2000 in a mid size company with 300-400 employees. After suffering through several complete rebuilds, blue screens, as well as dealing with patches and security upgrades, I decided that enough is enough.

I ordered the brand new 12" PowerBook on my own and decided that this would be my daily computer to replace my Dell. Quite a few people were curious at this silver beauty compared to the generic charcoal laptops on their desks -- and some even said that their next system will be a Mac too.

As I've come to learn however, integrating a Mac into an all PC world is not without its challenges.

IT Ignorance

The first challenge was dealing with an IT department that was completely ignorant of the Mac platform. Although they were helpful and curious about the Macintosh, they really couldn't offer much help so I was on my own. At my place of employment, they use Active Directory and after doing a lot of reading on the subject, I realized that it was not going to be the easiest transition.

When my PowerBook arrived, I immediately plugged a network cable into it, but for some reason, it was not being assigned an IP address. I checked all the settings and they were correct. I even plugged my laptop into a router outside of our network and it worked fine. But inside our corporate network, I would only get a 169... number which meant that I wasn't getting one from the network server.

I downloaded ADmitMac from Thursby hoping that it would help connect me to the laptop but that required a valid IP address as well so I still was left out in the cold.

Frustrated, I connected my PowerBook using the phone line by my desk and dialed into our corporate network, which was slow, but at least I could browse the Internet and check email to our Exchange servers running Outlook for Windows under Citrix. No one was able to help explain why this was happening. Not Apple, nor our IT department.

Ups and Downs

After two days of this, I got disconnected again from the phone connection but iChat stayed active and I was still getting messages! I opened up the System Preferences and suddenly I had an assigned IP address. I ran to the IT department asking for an explanation for what they did, to which they replied, "Nothing."

So now I had high-speed access to the network but not all was solved.

I still couldn't browse network shares and I tried joining our Active Directory domain using Admit Mac but it wouldn't let me join. So, I fired up Virtual PC, installed Windows 2000, and asked an IT person to join Win2k to the domain and it worked. I was also able to browse the network using a Citrix client but this was still hokey.

Little did I know that ADmit Mac didn't work because I didn't have rights to join a computer to the domain. But a week after I got all this up and running, I accidentally chose the Connect to Server function when I meant to go to a folder and Voila! I could see network shares!

I don't know when this happened but I could now browse through the servers and mount them on my desktop. I ran back to IT again asking if they had turned on Services for Mac, which I had asked them to consider. Again they said that no changes were made to the network at all.

Another unsolved mystery perhaps but I didn't care. No longer would I need to go through a Windows interface for network shares. As a side benefit, I uninstalled the evaluation copy of ADmit Mac and everything still worked fine which saved me $150 to buy it. However, others may not have this luck and ADmit Mac may be the ticket to survival in the Windows jungle. It seems to be a well thought out solution.

But there was this email thing.

The Exchange Dilemma

My employer is still running Exchange 5.5 which has no OS X native way of using public folders, Exchange Address Book, or creating meetings. Earlier, I was accessing email through Citrix or sometimes through Virtual PC, but I really wanted to do as much in the Mac OS as I could.

Then I downloaded Outlook 2001 for OS 8-9 and it connected instantly and ran much smoother than either of the two methods I used previously. The only downside is that Outlook for Mac does not render HTML email properly. But that is a small price to pay.

Fortunately, this situation won't go on forever as IT is considering upgrading to Exchange 2003. At that time, I hope Apple releases an update to iCal to connect to Exchange so I can use all Apple apps for Exchange connectivity. Others have expressed this interest as well, so I hope Apple will do it. It shouldn't be hard, as iCal already uses the WebDAV protocol, which is how Entourage and Mail (in Panther) are connecting to Exchange.

The Acid Test

The company I work for develops and runs proprietary vertical applications that are PC only. To truly replace my Dell, it had to be able to run the applications that I work with. The problem was that the one key application I needed to run used a software dongle to access the setup utility. Ouch!

I had read on numerous forums that Virtual PC 6.1 did not play well with software dongles. Despite that, I figured that I would try. So I plugged in the USB dongle and of course, Windows tried to load an installer for it but it didn't work.

I then ran the dongle installshield, installed the software and then tried to run the setup utility. It worked!

Not only did it work, but I also launched an online meeting through our online web cast company and ran the software and it all showed up on the attendee's computer just as if I was running on a PC (although slightly slower).

Next, I had to set up a network printer. This however, was a no-brainer. Once I had obtained an IP address, I opened up the Print Center to select a printer and it listed all the networked printers, so I selected the one I needed by it's IP address. This printer was an OEM unit so I guessed the manufacturer's printer driver from the list and I was able to gain access just fine.

At the End of the Day

I think my initial connection issues were somewhat of an anomaly, but since ironing them out, the PowerBook has become a tremendous asset. I run more applications simultaneously because I can do it so smoothly.

My Dell is a 1 GHz unit with 512mb ram but I didn't like running more than three or four apps at once because the performance became sluggish. On the Mac, I often run six or eight applications at once, including OS 9 and Windows 2000 in Virtual PC. Three open OS's at once plus playing music, downloading files and running updates is an amazing feat.

Having a PowerBook has made work fun again. The Dell has been gathering dust for over a week now and does little more than just take up space.

As others around the company begin see my PowerBook's features and power in the presentations I give, I have a feeling that I may not be the only Mac user for too long. ::

Author: Kevin Ledgister is the sole Mac user for a Midwest technology company. A digital "voice crying in the wilderness."

Re:In case of /. effect, read this post. (1)

coolmacdude (640605) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199793)

Ha, too late. ;)

Re:In case of /. effect, read this post. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199939)

Troll-fight! Troll-fight! :)

Seek Approval - Seek Denial (4, Informative)

kevinbr (689680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199783)

I am an IT architect who has for the last 10 years simply plugged my Mac into any LAN where I work. TCPDump allows me to sniff what network range is in use, then ping for an unused IP, and away I go. When support staff walk around, just unplug and look innocent. 99% of corporate security is LAX and allows anything. I keep virtual PC for Project and Visio. Afer staff see me, there is a flood of portables that then appear when the users figure out that can use their nice sleek powerful home portable as opposed to rigid old slow corporate junk. And yes, now with OS X, I can connect easier to Windoze servers. With OS 9 I used DAVE.

Re:Seek Approval - Seek Denial (3, Insightful)

connorbd (151811) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199908)

Okay, I'm calling shenanigans on this one. If you're an "IT Architect" (presumably that means you have substantial decision-making capability in your organization -- if I'm reading this correctly you're actually working as a contractor) you should know better than to be bringing outside hardware onto a company network.

I'm a Mac man myself, I sympathize... but even though you're using a Mac (more secure), you're compromising network security. If you were my employee I'd write you up at the very least.

I Have an Idea (0, Troll)

jetkust (596906) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199796)

Lets convert all of our Cheap Windows Machines to Expensive OSX Mac boxes running Virual PC running Windows 2000 running Microsoft Office.

Re:I Have an Idea (1)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199872)

Office is native for the Mac, retard.

Re:I Have an Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199890)

Or you can do your research and find that OSX has it's own suit of M$ Office programs.

Ignorance is Bliss

Re:I Have an Idea (1)

Zelet (515452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199897)

Troll or just ignorant? Office X for Mac is native... and perfectly compatible with Office XP.

Oh, and any TCO studies have shown that Macs are much cheaper than PCs in their lifetime. Not to mention that the top of the line mac is cheaper than the top of the line PC.

Only cooked studies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199938)

"Oh, and any TCO studies have shown that Macs are much cheaper than PCs in their lifetime"

Only cooked Apple-sponsored studies. It is pretty hard to get around the fact of one thing costing 30-40% more than another.

These studies are not to be trusted, just like you can't trust benchmarks saying `A` is faster if it is published in "`A` Addict Magazine" or on 'A`'s website.

IT should (and do) love Macs (4, Interesting)

anothy (83176) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199801)

*ahem*
It's not always the IT staff that doesn't want the Mac in the door. I'm Director of Information Technology for a good sized company with offices on three continents. We were recently spun out from what is essentially a government lobbying body. It's all Windows, top to bottom.
Or it was. When we had to replace the Exchange server that was part of our former parent, we got an XServe. We've now got three, in two locations. About a third of our U.S. based employees use Macs, and that percentage is growing.
Tomorrow, I have to meet with the CEO and explain what the hell I'm doing (I'm hoping this article and posts will save me some research!). I'm assured by the CTO that he's open minded about it, but just thinks it's really "odd" and wants to know why. I hope that's the case.
It's not always the IT folks that're "ignorant". I know more Macs mean lower admin costs and greater reliability. And I know what having Unix workstations means to the R&D work. But some of the upper management has doubts... mostly, I suspect, because they'll need to explain it to the board, who's likely to be even more conservative.
Oh... and all our internally-developed software is Windows-only as well. The new CTO has already agreed that we're changing that. And we've got budget to ditch the few IE dependancies on our web site.
Sometimes we get to move in the right direction.

Now its mostly bias (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199834)

I fully agree that until recently it was a pain to get a Mac on a NT domain. It required flaky 3rd party hacks, and you still had to screw with AppleTalk somewhat if you wanted to print...

Now with OSX thanks to FBSD and Samba, it's not too big of a deal. (Its still not perfect .. but its useable with out having to sacrifice a sheep )

I do admit we only have a few Macs, but I'm sure having a lot wouldn't be that much different.

Because! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199857)

Busniessess don't want shiny throbbing aqua buttons and fruity coloured computers. If you wan't colour then Its ethier beige or black (usually a dell).

Anyway, My busniess runs on a dell running Windows 2000, with a SuSE server in the background. I'm not spending $6000 on shiny Xservers, PowerMacs and Fruity distratctions! Ive got my $400 dell, and my $600 server, running a $99 operating system, and that means $5000 PROFIT for my business!

A better idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199865)

It's been said that bringing GNU/Linux into a corporate environment dominated by Windows-based PCs is not an easy task. Once you cut through the corporate red tape, then get through ignorant IT staff you still have to connect and gain access to all the services on the network...

Linux ain't that easy as well ... (1)

didjit (34494) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199873)

I run into a lot of problems running Linux as my workplace desktop, but for slightly different reasons. The SMB stuff is no prob, and I can access the local network and printers without a problem. Most of my problems occur because of people. I work in an engineering firm (but no programmers, IT specialists, or other techies here) so I get a lot of the usual:

Co-worker walks by, looks at monitor,
Co-worker: "Is that Excel?"
Me: "No, its OpenOffice spreadsheet" (or Gnumeric)
Co-worker: "Well, why isn't it Excel?"
Me: "Ummm, err, they don't make Excel for Linux."
Co-worker: "Well they should."

There aren't any serious problems caused by this, just a general uncomfortable feeling every once in a while.

Where I work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199875)

There's this guy whose office door is almost always shut. I finally found out what his big secret was...in our very pro-microsoft school, in the totally microsoft office, he has not one - but two macs in there! Meanwhile I'm stuck sneaking firebird onto the windows2000 machine I'm on there.

It's called standards (4, Insightful)

xrayspx (13127) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199881)

Let's say you're running a network of 160 desktops. 20 of those people would like to bring in their personal laptop, a Mac, Ipaq, etc. You then have to consider the security of the other 140 desktops. Corporate IT will be held responsible if YOUR personal laptop screws their network. YOU will not. So if someone "slips something by" Corporate IT, and it screws something, is virus infected, not locked down, then it is suddenly their problem to fix.

Can't always batter the Braindead IT Department. Companies have standards for a reason. I can't trust that J Random Developer knows how to secure his shit. In fact, I would always, 100% of the time, bet that he doesn't. After seeing some of the poorly maintained, hacked 10 ways from sunday developer desktops I have, my default policy would be to say "no".

One deplyoment to rule them all. (3, Informative)

mac-diddy (569281) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199884)

We've been using radmind [radmind.org] to deploy OS X to our entire group for over a year now. The best part is, we have a single 10.2.8 image that can boot all of our hardware ( old school iMacs to Dual G5 to new 15" laptops ) and is used by everyone including managers, developers, and support staff. Since applications are done as overloads, people can choose what software they want ala cart.

As the system administrator for the project, that best part is I can roll back any changes. Say, if apple were to release a bad update, I could just remove the overload and everyone would be back at say, a working 10.2.7.

Let's see you do that with windows.

my experiences... (1)

micaelus (450857) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199885)

I did this a year ago in my post-grad program: every student is required to own a laptop and a copy of MS Orifice. I am one of 2 Mac users in a class of 240.

When I registered and asked if it was okay to use a Mac, I got the same runaround: "We won't be able to provide tech support, we can't guarantee compatibility, blah blah." So I bought a Mac anyways, knowing that I could always use Virtual PC if necessary, and knowing how helpful and willing Apple tech support is, even if the problem is not directly related to Apple products.

After over a year, I have had no difficulties using my PB G4 in this Windows-dominated enviroment. I did have to explain how to ignore resource forks when sending email attachments to a couple of people, but that's about it. VPC was perfect when a certain professor demanded that we use a Windows-only statistics app. Wireless networking is flawless, and I get greater range then my PC-using counterparts.

Not to mention all of the positive attention I receive when toting a Mac around. All of the Dell/Toshiba/Sony/etc. users just want to touch it. And this year's incoming class even has a few more Macheads (I like to think that I had something to do with this)--so bring your Mac to work and spread the good user experience!

Mixed results (1)

nofud (238832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199887)

I asked for the permission to use it and was replied, we will never allow you to do it, but we'll look the other way if you do it. (The company was nearly 100% MacOS in the early 90's, 3000 workstations at that time, Apple blew it for not wanting to do services etc...)

All workstations are Windows NT being migrated to W2K, all servers are Solaris.

Well, a lot of things work out of the box, network (dhcp), access to SMB shares, proxy, printers access, etc... What I need is a correct Notes client (we still use 4.6), most of the intranet is "IE 5.5 for Windows or higher", and some custom applications.

I'd say I'm doing half my job on the Mac, half on my NT4 workstation.

I would do more on the Mac if Dreamveawer was not such a dog on MacOS X...

Web site format... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199903)

Did anyone else find that website format incredibly annoying? Having to scroll to the right to read every sentence? Congrats on getting the Mac up and running, but learn to format a web page....

Oh-Puh_Leeeease! (1)

WwWonka (545303) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199907)

I ran to the IT department asking for an explanation for what they did, to which they replied, "Nothing."

Oh they knew what was going on.They just didn't want to waste an hour explaing to some dumb ass in marketing what DHCP/MAC control is!

They had much bigger fish to fry, such as downloading new drivers for that 256M 600MHZ vid card they were putting in that new E-Commerce dual 2.8 Xeon server with 4 Gigs of memory to play Counterstrike on the 61" plasma in the conference room when everyone else was home playing with their "fruity" Macs!

Mac does not cut it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199912)

This might get modded as a troll, but it is true. Once you get outside of the few most common business tasks, you just won't find business software on the Mac. The overwhelming majority of specialized business applications are PC-only.

If you have a graphic design, photography business, or do desktop publishing, you are in luck with the Mac because the Mac happens to excel in your niche. Beyond that, however...

Diverse environment. (1)

Psmylie (169236) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199925)

We have some macs mixed in with our windows machines. We also have Linux and a few legacy os2 and dos machines. And yes, you can get them to play nice together. For a while, at least. Then you make some little "harmless" change on the network that one os likes and the rest hate, and suddenly your nice and peaceful network is a chaotic mess. And tracking down those problems can be pure hell.
Just because it works great on day one doesn't mean it'll still be great on day 100.
That's the main reason our IT dept (and I'd guess most IT depts) has been pushing for a single os. It is not because of ignorance, but because of a drive towards simplification.

Anytime someone doesn't want what you like.. (1)

xaoslaad (590527) | more than 10 years ago | (#7199926)

you think it amounts to ignorance. Here's a happy thought. I don't give a flying **** if the company AS A WHOLE decides they want to use Linux, Windows, Mac, or Solaris.

I just started a job with a shop that uses AIX, Netware, Windows Desktop and Server, and Linux. There's a friggan security vulnerability released everyday. It's f*ing rediculous. So let's bring in a Mac and add to the joy.

See the sad fact is no matter what OS you use it can be a safe and cost effective environment. Do you know how many tools for instance Windows has for making the installation of a desktop easier? RIS to install desktop, AD to distribute apps to the appropriate users/systems, SUS to actually INSTALL those security patches/service packs for windows. e-Policy Orchestrator for McAfee VirusScan and I'm sure Norton has something similar if that's your poison.

And so what if you choose linux. You have other tools, like say RHN if you choose RedHat.

Or you could use a Sun Ray server and Solaris for all. It could be done really beautifully. But no, as with all places someone has to be the autonomous exception to the rules. So you have a friend in management, what next?

So, not a troll, but just think for a minute. Like I said I wouldn't care if I was supporting all Macs or all Windows or all Linux, as long as it was ALL ONE. And people will harp on homogenous systems being insecure, but that is largely BS if the IT Staff are for once doing their job. Whether you have 1 or 8 insecure OS'es they are all still insecure. Taking care of one dilligently outways 8 haphazard implementations.

Jobs discusses Windows emu in Mac OS X (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7199942)

here [kuro5hin.org] . It's about time!
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