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Linux at the Macworld Expo

CmdrTaco posted more than 15 years ago | from the stuff-to-see dept.

Linux 80

haaz writes "Linux has a big role behind the scenes at the Macworld Expo in San Francisco: the entire OC-3 Internet backbone runs on Linux. All the DNS, IP management, security, etc., is running on Linux. LinuxPPC Inc. is exhibiting, marking their debut as the first Linux exhibitors at a Macworld Expo."

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IBM PPC740 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048858)

what is cost/margin of the IBM/Motorola PPC740?
And is another company than Apple working on
consumer products with OpenFirmware?

Slashdot advertising MCSE books? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048859)

what is this [blm.net] all about?

As long has they pay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048860)

I doubt that the slashdot crowd is really very interested... but then again, one never knows.

As far has I'm concerned, if ads of MCSE books allow Slashdot to live, I find the irony of it worth tolerating them.

IBM PPC740 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048861)

$1.99 + applicable taxes.

Let this be a lesson (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048862)

Let this be a lesson to all /. readers that with very little exception, there is a need for ALL operating systems. And thanks to Virtual PC, I'm running darn near all of them, as needed, on my Mac.
Now relax, many of you.

Priceless! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048863)

This is absolutely hysterical!

"OK, you Mac-people, go off and have your little Expo--meanwhile we've got a real OS doing the work behind the scenes."

It's the perfect marriage between MacOS and Linux. Linux for power, Mac for touchy-feely marketing types.

No Subject Given (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048864)

Gumber sez:

To me saying the entire OC-3 backbone runs on linux makes it sound like linux boxes are being used for ATM routing and switching, which I don't think is the case.

Linux is managing layer 3 & up. OC-3 backbone sits under this.

And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048865)

MacOS _will_ get better, and there are some important applications still only available on Mac

So we should use Macs because they have...vaporware and legacy software?

Sounds like an argument for NT...

hrm... windows 2000 will_be_better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048866)

I kind of feel a thread here. I guess those 150 million had some side effects ...

Why wait for something that "will be better" when you can have all of that goodness today?

Will MacOS be free ? will it's source code be given away ? ...

Priceless! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048867)

KDE isn't close to the mac in consistency.

Try running with the mouse buttons in left handed mode. Some apps and the desktop switch them, while some don't (netscape). Ironically, this isn't a problem under linuxppc (only linux-x86), since I can't figure out how to emulate buttons #2 and 3. (incidentially, ms-explorer-NT has this problem occasionally too)

Copy and paste are not consistent across apps.

Some things are single click, some are double click.

KDE may be up to MS's level of gui, but they haven't made it to the mac level yet.

It may be hard for you all to realize it, but the mac actually does a large number of things right. First and foremost, they wrote a book on the user interface, implying that they thought these things through before they started coding.

The interface has morphed over the last few years, but it still has features that no other computer system has.

There is no issue with left vs right handed mice. This is a major help for those of us who are left handed.

Two mice is not a problem. Great for people who suffer from RSI if they make the same motion too often.

Menu bars at the top of the screen. Means you only have to move the mouse up and to the right x location to hit a menu, you won't miss and go over. It reduces the dexterity needed to manipulate the menus.

The screen fonts are well thought out. _Nothing_ has the clarity of the original mac fonts for screen (low res) readability - Chicago, Geneva and Monaco.

Slashdot advertising MCSE books? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048868)

Um... it's a book CLUB. Microsoft didn't pay for that space. Pay attention next time, kids. BTW- With all the IS people who frequent /. there could be a lot of interest in the MCSE program. It is after all "News for Nerds" not "Linux News for Nerds."

anti-Mac sentiments here be obsolete (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048869)

A lot of the anti-mac sentiments here (like lack of decent tcp/ip stack, lack of stability, and some other just totally lame comments) will be completely obsolete when the stoopid-fresh Mac OS X Server is announced tomorrow (or whenever it's announced).

Even the arguments that Apple makes crap hardware will be obsolete when the Yosemite boxes are announced. Dope-fly onboard graphics and firewire for under $2000.

And before you ridicule the above mentioned products, take a good hard look at what they can really do. You might be surpised.

OSX Server different from OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048870)

We're talking about Mac OS X Server, which is NOT the same as Mac OS X.

OS X is to debut in late '99. OS X Server will probably debut tomorrow.

Can't we all just get along? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048871)

There's a recurring theme in this thread - "My OS is better than your OS".

Every OS has strong points and weak points.

Linux kicks butt as a server OS.

MacOS is great for design work (print/web/video).

DOS is great for gaming.

Windows...um...let me think...

OK, so not every OS has strong points.

But most of 'em do. :-)

hrm... mac os=no tcp ip stack but streams (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048872)

OT (mac's TCP/IP implementation)
is based on streams not on stacks.
you can't crash a stream.
No nuke has crashed me yet, but maybe i'm not up to speed or a popular target :).
getting nuked and continue on IRC like it should be :)

Priceless! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048873)

> There is no issue with left vs right handed
> mice. This is a major help for those of us who
> are left handed.

.That's about the first argument I've heard for .why a single button mouse is a feature,
.but I still disbelieve it.

And oddly enough, all the ADB lefthanded mice I've seen and sold are 4-button!

.Plus it is annoying to have to change
.app focus to even see their menu bars.

Maybe, but it does help prevent you from issuing the wrong command to the wrong app :-)
Under X it's sometimes hard to tell what app is listening to the keyboard despite active window clues.

Ferret

OH MY GIAWD! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048874)

Someone on /. who admitted making a mistake!
Give that man a tall cool one :-)
You made my day.
What a relief to know /. isn't totally
devoid of honest people.

Ferret

Anti-mac sentiments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048875)

To everyone who seems to keep ridiculing "touchy-feely UI-consitancy-loving Mac-heads", imagine if somebody sat down and redid all your emacs bindings. Annoying as hell, no? Now, imagine they do this every time you ran a new program...

Minimal hassle is bad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048876)

"So if you want to get work done exactly how the manufacturer wants you to do it with a minimal hassle, the Mac OS is the most hand-holding and restrictive choice in many areas."

What a thoughtless statement. Along the same lines, if I were to use linux (or whatever unix), I'd have to do whatever some geek thought was most practical - which for some gawdawful reason seems to be typing arcane weirdnesses.

Consistency is a good thing. Why the hell do you think all keyboards are the same? There's "better" designed keyboards, yet I bet you a $1 that you use the same damn qwerty keyboard everybody else in the world uses.

And a lot of Apple's "forced" commands have been emulated by Windows, and now KDE or gnome or whatever else. They must have stumbled on something.

and it's really not that restrictive, unless you're a geek. 99.9% of the population isn't a geek, the for the most part the argument is worthless.

whatever.

MacOS and Design! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048877)

One point (valid or not, but true) is that an artist would rather work on a Mac. Ease of use is a serious factor, but so is the more polished look of the MacOS GUI vs. Win95, I suspect.

I'm just the geek that keeps them running. I support about 60 Macs at a major publishing company, and all the design folk prefer them.

The bean-counters, OTOH, use Windows, and rightly so - business apps are generally more stable on Windows.

But the department that supports the Windows machines is three times the size of my Mac-only support crew, and they only have about half as many machines to keep alive.

oooooohhh.....linux can do oc-3....big woop! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048878)

Come on people, enough with this stupid "linux can
do something trivial that every other OS has been doing for a long time" posts here.

I've been running OC-12 and gigabit ethernet on Sun's for a year. oc-3 for several years....big woop. No one else toot's their horn because their OS can do this sort of stuff.

When will linux do something that I can't do on some other platform?

Can't we all just get along? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048879)

> Windows...um...let me think...

Windows is great for sheep.

KN

..Hey, if sheep do Windows, do we still need women?..

Anti-mac sentiments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048880)

Then you'd get what you deserve for using emacs! =)

And no, that's not quite the level of inconsistency that most non-Macintosh UIs exhibit. Close, but an exaggeration.

I'd probably be willing to put up with the limitations of the Mac UI (and, please, would one of these "touchy-feely Mac-heads" kindly admit, for once, that there are lots of them?) if there were some way to make the menubar behave properly.

Seeing the command set for only one application at a time is intolerable. I use 3 to 6 apps at once. I want to be able to control them without switching contexts in that oddly Mac-like way. This is a leftover from the MultiFinder days, and it was a bad idea then... now, it's just archaic and irritating.

Its the user, not the OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048881)

You'll still find Macs next to SGI's at ILM

In the end, it's the user who makes a computer valid or not. I've seen beautiful work done on 68k Macs with MacPaint, and I've seen users w/400 mhz Pentium II's and copies of 3D Studio Max produce absolute crap. Don't confuse the quality of the hardware/software with the talent of the user.

holy grail of UI's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048882)

I would hardly say the Mac is the holy grail of UI's, but please backup this statement just below - thoughtfully, if you can (Betch'a can't).

" 'Ease of use by eliminating choice' while certainly being 'easy' also eliminates options."

Exactly what the hell has been compromised - and if so, why is compromising in this case (and standardization) necessarily bad?

linux + kewl stuff=$0 solaris + neat stuff=$$$$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048883)

it's wonderful that solaris can do all that..
it's wonderful that linux can too..
the price of solaris is not wonderful
the price of linux is

Macs are the STANDARD for DESIGN... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048884)

There are a ton of functional reasons to use a Mac (ColorSync, AppleScript, etc.) but the biggest thing is it the standard of the industry.

If you don't do professional level creative it may come as a shock how universal the Mac is for content creation. Don't believe me? Next time you are at a news stand, pick up a copy of an annual graphics publication (like the Print Annual design competition). Listed with the entry information is the type of computer used. Virtually EVERY entry, (from the BEST designers in the country), was done on a MacIntosh. If you hire anyone, chances are they will be a Mac user, and won't be as productive on an unfamiliar system.

If you are a professional designer, NOT using a Mac would put you at a considerable disadvantage in many ways. Most every professional level designer uses, and prefers using, Macs. Check it out for yourself.

MacOS _IS_ the best for design work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048885)

Macs are far better for doing better quality design work... I wouldn't even attempt much of what I do for a living using a PC. Besides the deep system level support for ColorSync (five years in development and very effective). AppleScript (which many pre-press and graphics houses actually understand and depend on), applications that are the industry standards (so if you hire staff or free lancers they can instantly be productive), built in support for two monitors (so you can use all the real estate of the calibrated pre-press 21 incher and use a cheapy for all your palettes and file folders), much easier support of fonts, plus the G3 Macs using virtual PC run windows better than our Intel machines!

I had to use a PC at my last job and after two years they bought one Mac. I now freelance for them and within eight months they replaced ALL their PCs with Macs.

And this is in a PC standard Corporation! The Macs are faster, easier to use, more stable, almost never break, don't have wierd driver problems, are more pleasant to use, and more experienced designers use and like them.

The bottom line is a lot more work gets done with less headaches.

Just my two bits.

Apple is COMMITTED to LINUX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048886)

Apple is committed to Linux... see their website. Apple is offering Linus PREINSTALLED for their education customers.

Linux will be offered as an option to Mac OS Server (which is currently shipping), PREINSTALLED (from the Webstore only, after 2/14/98). Apple will support its Linux customers (for preinstalled sales).

Apple will be offering Yellowbox compatability between Mac OS X and Linux for advanced application development.

Apple, though it has great software assets, makes 96% of its money through hardware sales. Apple needs to make money. If people prefer to run Linux on Mac hardware, then they are happy to cash the check.

Apple firmly believes Linux is a partner, not a threat. Working closely with Linux is a big part of Apple's future.

IBM PPC740 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048887)

How hard would this be? I really like the PowerPC processers but I don't like Apple's stranglehold on them. I've often thought about opening a buisiness to build and sell PPC motherbords based on OpenFirmware in an attempt to give PPC processors a similar (although much smaller) type of market that Intel processers have. The idea wuold be to be as standard compliant as possible so that it could use as much of the existing peripheral hardware as possible. Might be kinda rough, though.

I've got 1 year of IC design experience, no market share, and no startup capitol. So, who's with me?

Matt

Minimal hassle is bad? - Pfui. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048888)

"So, because 99.9% of people want Action A performed via Method M I am forced to follow? What sheeplike thinking."

Hey - nobody forced you to do diddly - did they? Well then.

There is customization in the Mac interface. eg, you can make icons as buttons, so you only have to click them once. Also, the Finder can be simplified (if you have OS 8.5) for beginners. You can tear-off the app-switcher, and even make it Win95 like, if you wish (shift-option-".
The only option that would be interesting to see on OS X would be the ability to toggle between the standard Finder interface, and a interface where each app has it's own space (line Win or unix). Other than that, the interface should be intuitive enough so that differences are trivial.

OS X *will* probably let you do what you need to do, for at least your home network - and none of this has to do with interface stuff which was being discussed. Will be a nice system since it's gots the full object oriented framework (should have a full implementation of *BSD too, to satisfy all but some purists).

whatever.

Apple is COMMITTED to LINUX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048889)

Apple is committed to Linux... see their website. Apple is offering Linus PREINSTALLED for their education customers.

Linux will be offered as an option to Mac OS Server (which is currently shipping), PREINSTALLED (from the Webstore only, after 2/14/98). Apple will support its Linux customers (for preinstalled sales).

Apple will be offering Yellowbox compatability between Mac OS X and Linux for advanced application development, which will be mutually beneficial.

Apple, though it has great software assets, makes 96% of its money through hardware sales. Apple needs to make money. If people prefer to run Linux on Mac hardware, then they are happy to cash the check.

Apple firmly believes Linux is a partner, not a threat. Working closely with Linux is a big part of Apple's future.

Expect real support of Linux from Apple.

Apples support is NOT behind the scenes; read this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048890)

Apple is actively supporting Linux and features Linux on its website. Apple is selling Linux preinstalled for its servers for the education market and may sell it as a dual boot option from its wes store very soon.

Linux is a big part of Apples future and is banking on Linux to help break the Wintel monopoly. Apple is doing a lot of things to converge Mac OS X with Linix; this will be very good for Apple AND Linux.

Remember, Apple is mostly a hardware company, and its new hardware really rocks. The future of the Power PC is hot and the hardware offerings being introduced at MacExpo will have VERY compelling cost/performance ratios (128 bit rage pro, dual firewire bus (400+ mb/sec) on the motherboard, 100-150 mhz sys bus, etc). The G4 to be introduced in March will have a 15x increase in performance and a fully intergrated high performance platform at very affordable prices. Apple wants to sell a TON of these and if offering Linux helps, welcome to the party.

Apple would love to be the Linux platform of choice. They are, after all, making almost all there money on hardware, not software. They would much rather be the ones selling you the Linux box, rather than the sale going to Intel or Alpha boxes.

The engineers that rule at Apple are the unix-heads from NeXT. They DIG what is happening with Linux and want to squash windows. Apple and Linux work together like a hand and glove; Apple isn't threatened by Linux, they see it as a very good thing.

Expect _very_ tight integration and support of Linux from Apple.



OS X Server (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048891)

Your head is clearly stuck up your ass, given the fact that you ignore Tuesday's unveiling of OS X Server, that BSD-based, Mac/OpenStep interfaced OS that even YOU will be drooling over.

You slashdotters are the biggest idiots on earth. Yeah, I'm running *nix on the box next to this iMac (hah!), and it's ludicrous how hobbyist and cobbled and amateurish and unprofessional and unsupported and unaccepted and unusable it is compared to what I'm on now, my Win machines, my SGI, my Sun, my NeXT slab, my ...

Linux/Mac (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048892)

"Can't we all just get along?"

On my network I'm running both Linux, Win95 and Mac clients (both 68040 and PowerPCs running MacOS 8.5, LinuxPPC and OpenBSD). Linux absolutely cannot be beat as a server. However, it's not at a usable state *yet* as far as graphics applications go (GIMP is powerful, but doesn't have the features of PhotoShop).
The belief that one OS must do everything is why Win95 accreted into the monster that it is. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Why the mac interface is better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048893)

Finally, someone explained it for me!

For years, I've used both MacOS and DOS/Win3.1/Win95/98 and constantly gotten headache from the DOS-Win side. Not because I couldn't do my job or get the job done on either side or level, but just because MacOS "feels" easier to use.

It's definitely design based. Intuit's products are examples of this also.

People mistake a ton of options as "more advanced", but honestly, I get everything done on my mac with one button just fine. I simply don't feel the need for two buttons on it. On Windows, I'm constantly going through a mental checklist trying to remember which menu item or right click I have to use to get to what I want. Often, I just start blindly searching. On Windows, I have to go through 4 clicks just find anything.

As for Linux, well, I'm learning and I'm waiting. Aside from either a good freeware server OS or a nifty science project, there's nothing to convince me to switch yet for personal use, and the ease of use issues aren't making it any easier. It isn't a matter of intelligence or OS jihads. It's a matter of time. I don't have the time to learn a whole new OS where nothing is standardized.

Unix yes, Be NO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048894)

There's a lot of reasons why Jobs won't support Be- (like Gasee' is an asshole) and there's a lot of bad blood there, some of it because Amelio bought NeXT instead of Be.

The bigger thing, though, is the way Linux dovetails into Apple's NeXT based Unix offerings. Apple is working on a Yellow box based advanced development platform that will bridge OS X and Linux. That will create momentum WITH Mac OS X, not against it.

The engineers at Apple are VERY pro unix. Be is considered to be more of a pest than a help, more of a fragmention to the market rather than an alliance.

BTW, Apple's hardware production is much more together since they hired Compac's prodution guru last year. The iMac proved Apple can pump out the goods. And the new Yosemite pro models are awesome.

You're right, though, Apple makes nearly all its bucks on hardware. If you want to pay Apple for hardware, they will happily load up Linux. They don't care if its Mac OS or Linux, they still sell the box.

So what will happen to Be? Microsoft should buy Be and use it replace the lame 35 million lines of crap code in NT 5.

Priceless! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048895)

Gumber sez:

What a moron. There is more to life than servers buddy. If the Mac, and its influence on computing didn't matter then there would be a hell of a lot fewer back end machines running Linux and everything else.

Badmouth the MacOS all you want, but as Allen Kay said, the Macintosh was the first personal computer worth criticizing, and in some ways it still has a lot to show both Windows and Linux in the useability department.

NEEDED?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048896)

I don't personally need anything linux doesn't do (and mostly don't even want, with the possible exception of starcraft battle.net).

ecarter@u.arizona.edu

MacWorld, and what runs it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048897)

Gumber sez:

I thought as much. Thanks for filling us in.

unrelated but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048898)

I was watching CNN, and they had a y2k segment for PC's. As can be expected it mostly pertained to windows users and how those users can check for problems. However one interesting thing did occur, the reporter at the end of his segment, mentioned that Linux and the Mac were already y2k compliant. First time I've heard 'Linux' on tv. Just thought I'd share :].

oooooohhh.....linux can do oc-3....big woop! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2048899)

Duhhh.....FreeBSD?

hrm... (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048900)

Posted by zaha:

what does that mean, exactly, when an "entire OC-3 Internet backbone runs on Linux" ?

MacOS _will_ get better, and there are some important applications still only available on Mac (genome mapping, for example)... i would expect Linux or some other Unix to bear the bulk of the connectivity and security needs of the conference, but the above quote is rather vague and hyperbolic.

hrm... (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048901)

Posted by zaha:

that wasn't the issue

oooooohhh.....linux can do oc-3....big woop! (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048902)

Posted by zaha:

solaris wasn't really ever about speed. it's _reliable_.

and cheap intel hardware is exactly that.

hrm... (1)

spacey (741) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048903)

what does that mean, exactly, when an "entire OC-3 Internet backbone runs on Linux" ?

FYI OC3 is a leased line that is, I believe, 155 Mbps max. It's the kind of capacity that can make a lot of people happy.

As for the rest, the design of the MacOS has never impressed me with its ability to scale. From the paper that Alan Cox has online on porting linux m68k to the mack68k, I don't think the hardware is entirely well designed either.

MacOS *has* been getting better for about... 8 years now. In the same time, linux has become remarkably better. MacOS is still mostly more of the same.

IMO the less you have running on a mac, the less often you have to save against unrecoverable crashes.

Macs are obnoxious computers.

-Peter

OSX Server (1)

tak* (1121) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048904)

Actually it has gone GM. News.com and almost all other tech news sites are saying it will be released this week. As for if its going to be preloaded on any systems...thats another story.

IBM PPC740 (1)

tak* (1121) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048905)

I had the same idea. I also would like to start a business making and selling PPC systems running Linux and MacOS X. Even AIX. CHRP is not a closed standard and its cleaner than X86. But I don't agree that Apple has a strangle hold on the PPC. They don't even manufacture them. Motorola and IBM do. They are not popular for the desktop because INTEL has a strangle hold on the desktop (not really Intel, but any X86 chip maker).
If you look around, there are PPC system makers, like Bull computing, IBM, PIOS (They changed their name), etc.

Yes, it's Priceless. (1)

alta (1263) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048906)

I'd say Mac's for people who want to get media done. Yes, linux is a great OS and I tell people about it every day. But it still isn't there in media. I'm not talking about X11Amp and xanim. Linux is getting there, Blender is GOOD. Gimp is aproaching photoshop, but is never planned on having CMYK, so it won't make it in the DTP world. Linux has nothing like Illustrator. Now video editing in Linux. Don't bash the Mac, cause it's good at what it's made for. And because of ease of use, my parents can surf on a Mac all day. They aren't interested in upgrading lib's and uptime. They just want it to work.

Linux is great for behind the scenes, but it has a way to go before it's on the stage.

Oh, and don't forget fonts! (1)

alta (1263) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048907)

Ok linux people. Here's one that X still can't touch. What's with the bass ackwards fonts support in X? Who the hell is going to load a daemon/server/app whatever just so you can make the ttf's work? Fonts are one of those things that should be system wide, build in, not to mention beautiful. X has pisspoor font support. Even if you can find a font, they are a jaggy as hell.

Why not, most of you people are MicroSerfs (1)

Kestrel (1301) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048908)

The majority of people that view slashdot do so with MicroSloth machines, so why not advertise for things that you people can use?

Slashdot advertising MCSE books? (1)

Zachary Kessin (1372) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048909)

I imagine Rob & Co will take an add from anyone who wishes to pay for one, not unreasonable.

I have noticed that Visual Cafe is advertizing here, does anyone know if they are considering a linux port?

(PS I'd probably buy a copy if they did)
--Zachary Kessin

PlayStation Emulator for Mac (1)

BG McCollum (1572) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048910)

head on over to AppleInsider [appleinsider.com] and check out what apple has instore for tomorrow. a playstaion emulator, bringing over 1200 games to the mac. so, where's that game argument now?

Priceless! (1)

Chris Hanson (1683) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048911)

You said:
But you have to move the mouse a lot further from where you are working to get to the menu bar.
The designers of the Macintosh (well, Lisa) interface thought about this. Perhaps you're trying to carefully position the pointer over the menu you want to pull down like you have to do with some other systems... On the Mac, you only have to use such fine motor skills to select the command from a menu. Thanks to a real acceleration curve and the fact that you can't normally "overshoot" the menu bar, gross motor skills suffice to allow you to pull down a menu.

Slashdot advertising MCSE books? (1)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048912)

Well, for one, the advertisers paid for it. Second, they are supporting /. by paying for the service. Third, they skrew themselves by placing and ad about a product not many of you would buy anyway. E.g., you wouldn't place an ad for refigerators in Greenland, would you? So, /. benefits the most for this. We win!

Priceless! (1)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048913)

> Some things are single click, some are double click.

You won't mind if I remind that you can have single, double, AND triple clicks on a Mac (plus Cmd-click and Option-click).

> Menu bars at the top of the screen. Means you only have to move the mouse up and to the right x location to hit a menu, you won't miss and go over. It reduces the dexterity needed to manipulate the menus.

Well, good thing KDE will feature this very same thing. Better yet, it will be optional, so you can have whichever you like best. Still not yet available for GNOME, but it might get there too.

> The screen fonts are well thought out. _Nothing_ has the clarity of the original mac fonts for screen (low res) readability - Chicago, Geneva and Monaco.

Sure, X's default fonts don't win any beauty contest (if there's anything as a default font for X; I should say "the fonts that are included with the X distribution"), but you can change them to whatever you want.

> Two mice is not a problem. Great for people who suffer from RSI if they make the same motion too often.

Well, you might get pumped up more by using two mice, but not everyone is ambidextrous.

> It may be hard for you all to realize it, but the mac actually does a large number of things right.

This I agree with. The Mac's user interface is still a reference point from which everyone builds upon. It's the kind of design that lets you work the way you want to work, not the way it wants you to work.

Nothing's bloody perfect. The Mac UI is far from perfect. But it's a choice; if you like it, go for it. If you don't, there are other choices. And if you're into Open Source, you can change it what's out there, or you can make your own.

That's uh, advertising... (1)

Simon Carr (1788) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048914)

Are we surprised by this? If I was Rob I wouldn't turn down any revenue within reason. (Beyond reason would be plastering a giant WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO TODAY banner on the page, and changing everything to MS colors ;))

There should probably be a reminder here to keep an open mind. I mean if Microsoft came out with a good product that was meant to actually WORK and work well, I would support it... I'm not holding my breath though.

Minimal hassle is bad? (1)

Troy (3118) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048915)

Sheeplike thinking? Maybe, but probably not.

Smart thinking? Yeah....

You own a business. Your business makes programs. You pay your programmers. If you find out that 99.9% of your customers want Action A to be performed by Method M, are you going to put forth the time and money it takes to let people do it another way? Probably not. You're going to save your time and money, focusing on some other problem that's will affect more people (like not firing the HD platters out of the front of the machine, though that would look really cool :-) ).

Sure, that 0.1% gets the shaft, but many companies thrive on serving that 0.1%, unless that 0.1% amounts to ten people...in which case, they just have to realize that the world doesn't revolve around them and suck it up and deal. Then again, they can learn to program and figure something out themselves....hello open software!

By the way, it is very easy to have multiple DNS servers and multiple connections in Open Transport. In the TCP/IP control panel is a Configurations options, which lets you store prefs for multiple connections....on the downside, I believe you have to manually switch them, but that's probably no big thing, and you could probably write an Applescript to do that for you. Furthermore, simply change the user mode (under Edit) to Advanced or Admin to add DNS servers.

MacOS and Design? (1)

Ken (3185) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048916)

ColorSync
QuickTime
Strong PostScript font support
Easy to administrate
intuitive interface (artist like it)
and probably most important:
Printing and publishing industry standard

MacOS and Design? (1)

Ken (3185) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048917)

ColorSync
QuickTime
Strong PostScript font support
Easy to administrate
intuitive interface (artist like it)
and probably most important:
Printing and publishing industry standard

MacWorld, and what runs it. (1)

haaz (3346) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048918)

Yeahyeah... ;) was it you we talked to about it?

OK, so the OC-3 ITSELF doesnt run on Linux.. ;-) thats why /. is known for quality accuracy in reporting from us blokes who can't report something right the first time.

Priceless! (1)

gambit (3767) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048919)

You should look into KDE my friend. It's about as touchy-feely with consistency as you can get.

KDE... (1)

gambit (3767) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048920)

Jeeze...just a suggestion for those needing something of a warm and fuzzzy desktop. Part of your slowness could be due to the LinuxPPC dist. which is not quite up to speed with the x86 Linux versions.

As for your last comment, I too have work to get done and my Mac doesn't cut it (not to mention my NT box...ugh)...that's why I've switched to Linux for good.

OSX Server (1)

Versalius (3953) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048921)

Mac OS X and Mac OS X server are not the same. Mac OS X server is basically just Rhapsody renamed. Mac OS X is a more consumer oriented release that will allow most legacy MacOS apps to run, after minor tweaking, with protected memory and preemptive multitasking alongside yellowbox apps. Mac OS X server will soon be released, while the release date for "Mac OS X is not slated for widespread release until at least the third quarter of 1999".

OSX Server (1)

DarkClown (7673) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048922)

I'd heard that OSX server had gone GM. Anyone know if it's getting any prominence at macworld? Also, what about the quicktime server (open?) that jobs was maybe going to demo at the keynote?

OSX Server (1)

DarkClown (7673) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048923)

duh- the keynote doesn't happen until tomorrow. hopefully some slashdotter will attend and let us know if anything important is rolled out.

news? (1)

brindle (8241) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048924)

Its getting to the point where I am almost surprised this is considered news. It seems Linux is everywhere behind the scenes. Now I would be stoked if the hardware it was running on was PPC!!

-B

Open Source, insert foot... (1)

Anarchitect (9282) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048925)


"For instance, why can't I setup my wife's MAC to have two DNS servers? Because 99.9% of Mac users don't have a home network in addition to their dialup connection."

Sorry, wrong. I've got three name servers, and can enter all three.

What are you doing wrong?

Slashdot advertising MCSE books? (1)

Ex Machina (10710) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048926)

Basically I feel that someone selling advertising space should allow anyone to buy it as long as the ad or the product being advertised does not have a negative impact on the media that is displaying it. I find it almost amusing that Microsoftish things would be advertised on a typically anti-M$ site. Oh well. It's their money. ;)


Ex Machina "From the Machine"
ExMachina@GeekMafia.dynip.com [http://GeekMafia.dynip.com/]

Priceless! (1)

binarybits (11068) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048927)

No one ever said the Mac OS was a good server OS. There's more to an OS than stability and power. If you want a rock-solid server, Linux is a good choice. But the Mac OS is still way ahead of the alternatives in consistency, intuitiveness, and seamless integration. Only on a Mac can you plug in a peripheral with a reasonable expectation of it working right without fooling around with configuration files. So if you want to get work done with minimal hassle, the Mac OS is still the best choice in many areas.

Besides, many of the Linux boxes were probably Macs running LinuxPPC, and Mac OS X will make the Mac far more stable and powerful, making it a competitive server OS.

Minimal hassle is bad? (1)

nyarlathotep (11227) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048928)

I bet you a $1 that you use the same damn qwerty keyboard everybody else in the world uses.

How delightfully American. English and the qwerty keyboard are in the minority on this planet.

OSX Server (1)

smileyy (11535) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048929)

Don't I recall it going GM about a month ago? I think Apple's supposed to announce it at this expo.

Priceless! (1)

chrisv (12054) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048930)

If your only OS is linux, pretty soon every computer looks like a server.
ehehe, you're probably right, i'm beginning to think that about my 486 at home anyway :o)

This isn't the debut (1)

Skankmofo (12963) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048931)

This isn't the debut for Linux exhibitors at Macworld, LinuxPPC has been exhibited there for at least the last 2 expos.

At the SF one last year, the last one I was at, LinuxPPC has a really small showing, but one of the developers was onhand and we talked about Linux for awhile; me being a Linux newbie at the time.

The point is, the important part of this news story is not that Linux is running in the backroom, it is that Linux PPC is actually convincing 'GUI-loving' Macheads to try linux.

MacOS and Design? (1)

mojoman (13131) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048932)

What is it with everybody going off on MacOS being so superior when it comes to design. Not that I like Windows, but I would rather use Windows any day over MacOS when it comes to design. What apps and strongpoints does MacOS have over Windows in that area?

Oh, and don't forget fonts! (1)

Pray_4_Mojo (13485) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048933)

TrueType Fonts? Who invented them again? Apple or Adobe..I know that much....
Sorry, just reminding you that even if you hate Macs, they're responsible for just about every development in the computer industry, for had apple failed, IBM wouldn't have made any PCs, now would they? And what OS would there be to rip off for windows95? (Innovation my foot!)
Sorry. Mac Rant.
LinuxPPC 5.0 Will RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Priceless! (1)

just someone (13587) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048934)

The pc is used for Finite Element Modeling (nt unfortunately)

Funny that's what I thought UNIX was for.

Mac philosphy it's the OS (1)

just someone (13587) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048935)

Love that menubar. I keep on selecting the wrong one, and bringing a window forward.

The one thing about the mac is not the interface, it's the finder ( the thing windows tries to emulate, so poorly).

On windows, a file has an extension and is asssociated with a program with an extension. This means files of certains types, eg tif, jpg, gif can only be associated with one program. I can not double click on a gif file created in photoshop and have it open in photoshop after IE has clobbered the file extention associations. you need the damn mouse, and hand to hold down the shift key, and get "open with" command in menu (unless you do some more custom configuration).

Now the mac is killer. The OS is resposible for file associations. A file created in an application, opens in that application.

on windows, you find the application, and tell the os about the application.

on a mac, the OS finds the application, and discovers the applications capabilities (reads file types gif, tif, etc)

This is why macs work so well when the OS is reinstalled, the os finds the applications.

And why you need to reinstall the apps or the registry after windows is reinstalled.

Priceless! (1)

fred (80655) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048936)

Well, most complex apps have their own cut+paste buffer for complex stuff (like pasting images, or keeping things in the cut buffer for a long time), but for simple get-the-data-into-the-app sort of things, there's a universal X selection buffer. Just select something and middle-click in the correct widget of the window you want it in. If you don't have a middle mouse button, your X server may be set up to emulate one when you click the left and right buttons together. If you only have one mouse button, I'm afraid you're beyond salvation. :)

Oh, and don't forget fonts! (1)

trope (371208) | more than 15 years ago | (#2048937)

Umm...sorry, we've only been serving fonts off of an Appleshare server to about 60 Macs for the past 6 years.
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