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Microsoft Dismisses Apple's iTunes for Windows

CmdrTaco posted about 11 years ago | from the race-is-on dept.

Media (Apple) 916

fewnorms writes "Microsoft's general manager for the Windows Digital Media division, Dave Fester, yesterday dismissed the new iTunes for Windows version, saying it was too limited for the average Windows users. Choice quote: "[Apple's music store] ... is a drawback for Windows users, who expect choice in music services, choice in devices, and choice in music from a wide-variety of music services to burn to a CD or put on a portable device." Of course Apple doesn't feel to worried about this, simply stating their products will (and have) lived up to the hype." The points made are all valid- but contradictory to standard Apple product design where simplicity always takes priority over flexibility. Besides, iPod is growing market share, and iTunes will be the best choice for windows users who own it.

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The best choice? Guess again. (1, Informative)

koreth (409849) | about 11 years ago | (#7249024)

Besides, iPod is growing market share, and iTunes will be the best choice for windows users who own it.

Can't disagree with the first point, but the second? Not really. There's at least one other jukebox app [musicex.com] that has a substantially better feature set [macobserver.com] than iTunes and is just as easy to use. I tried iTunes for a day and got frustrated with its limitations. Other than purchasing the occasional track from the iTunes Store, I can't see myself firing it up again. (And no, I'm not one of those people who had stability problems; it worked just fine for me.)

Re:The best choice? Guess again. (0)

davesag (140186) | about 11 years ago | (#7249067)

Yeah I gotta say iTunes' "smart playlists" are cool but could be so much cooler without you having to actually get down and script them. the other features cited in your link, the quiet-period skipper is a great idea, and party mode is also a top idea. i imagine that now iTunes is out for wintel however we'll see dramatic improvements in both the mac and wintel versions over the coming months.

Re:The best choice? Guess again. (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | about 11 years ago | (#7249104)

script them? I just select criteria and hit OK. if you call that scripting, ok. I call it selecting search criteria and having it build a playlist for me.

no scripting required (3, Informative)

green pizza (159161) | about 11 years ago | (#7249129)

There's no scripting required for smart playlists, just pick what you want from a couple lists. It's all pointy clicky.

Re:The best choice? Guess again. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249198)

You're ignoring a key difference : iTunes is free.
J. River Media Center is not.

Oh yeah.... (5, Funny)

dswensen (252552) | about 11 years ago | (#7249025)

Microsoft preaching about giving users a choice. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Re:Oh yeah.... (3, Insightful)

spitefulcrow (713858) | about 11 years ago | (#7249046)

Definitely quite amusing. "Unless Apple decides to make radical changes to their service model, a Windows-based version of iTunes will still remain a closed system, where iPod owners cannot access content from other services," said Fester." Sound a bit familiar, Mr. M$-executive? Maybe like your own business strategies involving closed formats?

Re:Oh yeah.... (1)

cpoch (673846) | about 11 years ago | (#7249083)

How can the company that has a monopoly over nearly everything on the desktop complain abou a lack of choice for users? Maybe it feels a little different when your monopoly isn't stable and there's real competition out there. If I were buying a portable player right now, ir would be an iPod for sure. I wouldn't even look at players with Windows Media support. I've liked using iTunes on OSX, but have never owned a mac. Now I have to wait for apple to release iTunes for Linux so I can try the store :) Well, maybe it's worth booting into windows to try, but not being able to play the AAC tracks on Linux wouldn't be good.

Re:Oh yeah.... (0)

tempest303 (259600) | about 11 years ago | (#7249137)

3 words: mod. parent. up.

Re:Oh yeah.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249162)

Microsoft once again proves they are a bunch of dumbasses.

MS Choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249167)

MS wants you to have choice until they are in a position of dominance. Then, they want to be your only choice.

Soon, Linux won't even run on hardware. It will be Apple or Microsoft, literally.

What to wear when the turban is out of fashion (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249171)

Your AA 11 hat [nan2d.com] !

will the MS/MSN music store offer a choice? (1)

green pizza (159161) | about 11 years ago | (#7249217)

I really doubt Microsoft will offer any more choices (probably less, especially when it comes to DRM issues) or flexibility when they open up their MSN music store in a few months.

itunes? naah... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249030)

wow (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249097)

What a great looking [duke.edu] piece of software! Much nicer than iTunes.

Re:itunes? naah... (1)

domninus.DDR (582538) | about 11 years ago | (#7249120)

I had ephpod installed and booted up iTunes to look around the store, and on the menu on the left in iTunes, there was a option for "EphPod" Confused, I clicked on it, and it showed the contents of my iPod.. Did iTunes integrate iPod, or does "EphPod" have some kind of meaning outside of the other program?

Re:itunes? naah... (1)

TomHandy (578620) | about 11 years ago | (#7249151)

Maybe EphPod changed the name of your iPod to "EphPod"? As far as I know, it is just listing the attached devices you have..... and if your iPod has a custom name, I am pretty sure it will display that name there.

-Tom

Puns Are Always The Best (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249031)

So, you could say that Microsoft has a Fester over iTunes.

Music Player Selection (5, Funny)

Crusader of Yore (630674) | about 11 years ago | (#7249038)

>>if you use Apple's music store along with iTunes, you
>> don't have the ability of using the over 40 different
>>Windows Media-compatible portable music devices.

Oh, shoot. I mean, that's really a big problem for me. I like to use my Rio on Monday, and Samsung mp3 player on alternate Wednesdays, and the Nomad for Friday afternoon... What am I going to do if I can only use my iPod? Horrors!

Comedy (-1, Redundant)

computerme (655703) | about 11 years ago | (#7249039)

Comedy, thy name is Microsoft....

Agree with Microsoft here (0, Flamebait)

zymano (581466) | about 11 years ago | (#7249040)

I don't want to just use an Ipod. Apple here is the one trying to LOCK-IN products and not Microsoft.

Re:Agree with Microsoft here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249062)

So suddenly Microsoft doesn't ever try the same lock-in technique? What a crock.

BOTH apple and M$ are fucked. (1)

RLiegh (247921) | about 11 years ago | (#7249095)

That's why we have GNU.

Re:Agree with Microsoft here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249153)

how are you locked in?

You're screwed either way. (1, Insightful)

green pizza (159161) | about 11 years ago | (#7249161)

If you want/use an iPod and/or have no need for a pocket MP3 player, when iTunes is probably a perfect choice. Otherwise, you can use MusicMatch or some other player/store/upload combo.

When Microsoft opens their music store in a few months be prepared to lock-in to The MS Way. Don't expect any form of standards or even support for all devices. Don't believe me? Look at the past for some insight to the future.

Again, iTunes is great if you have or want an iPod... or if you don't want any sort of music player at all. Now if you're using some other mp3 player, then you pretty much have no business even looking at iTunes.

Please remember. (4, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | about 11 years ago | (#7249041)

Choice to Microsoft is letting you pick from any of THEIR products. They do not use that word as we do.

Re:Please remember. (1)

zymano (581466) | about 11 years ago | (#7249106)

Atleast they don't lock-in hardware like Itunes.

Re:Please remember. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249179)

Microsoft is not a hardware company. They lock you into software, is that somehow better?

Re:Please remember. (1)

Schmucky The Cat (687075) | about 11 years ago | (#7249135)

None of the offerings to buy music through WMP are run by Microsoft.

Re:Please remember. (0, Offtopic)

DAldredge (2353) | about 11 years ago | (#7249147)

Not yet.

Obligatory Princess Bride Quotation (4, Funny)

MacGod (320762) | about 11 years ago | (#7249200)

"They do not use that word as we do."

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Re:Please remember. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249216)

And please remember that to many Linux zealots, choice is being able to pick which distro you use.

They're not alone in their world-view.

Who is Microsoft to talk? (5, Insightful)

Txiasaeia (581598) | about 11 years ago | (#7249044)

"...Dave Fester yesterday dismissed the new iTunes for Windows version, saying it was too limited for the average Windows users..."

Um, yeah, this coming from the company that's offering exactly *how* many music downloads?

It seems to me that.. (5, Insightful)

jvagner (104817) | about 11 years ago | (#7249045)

..MS's path to more "choice" will include more baseline restrictions and DRM.

If Apple can keep things a little simpler, and a little more limited, and offer the flexibility that they do (burning audio copies to CD, etc), as much as we geeks might complain, it's probably easier for the average consumer to grasp.

Sure, I'd love to see a mainstream offering with a huge library selling DRM-less MP3s, but that doesn't seem likely to happen, and it's certainly not going to come from Microsoft.

For all the complaints of lock-in WRT MS..... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249049)

The way iTunes and the iTMS locks you in to Apple software and Apple hardware (I know, big shock there). Essentially all of the other services allow you to use the music with multiple players and multiple media players on the PC.

WMA is far more flexible and portable, open, closed, or otherwise. Unless Apple adds WMA to the iPod and iTMS, they're not going to grow very much on the PC.

Your FP has been made irrelevant! (-1)

(TK4)Dessimat0r (669989) | about 11 years ago | (#7249051)

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MS Hypocrisy (1)

knautilus316 (629085) | about 11 years ago | (#7249053)

Dave Fester, yesterday dismissed the new iTunes for Windows version, saying it was too limited for the average Windows users.

Oh, because WMA doesn't have any built in limitations? eall....

~Knautilus

Re:MS Hypocrisy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249101)

He didn't say there were *no* limitations, but that's a typical tactic for someone who doesn't really have a point.

iTMS locks you in to using iTunes only and iPod only.

WMA files work with Winamp, MMJB, WMP, and on many different brands of media player.

iTMS is far more limiting for Windows users. probably too limiting for many, just like he said. They're far less comfortable letting one single company control every aspect of their computing life.

g0t ir0ny? (1)

pheared (446683) | about 11 years ago | (#7249059)

a Windows-based version of iTunes will still remain a closed system

The vendor of arguably the biggest closed system ever preaching that others ought not close their systems.

Re:g0t ir0ny? (1)

vegetablespork (575101) | about 11 years ago | (#7249116)

Actually, MS does have a point--the AAC format won't play on any portable device but an iPod. If that isn't vendor lockin, I don't know what it is. Of course, since it's Apple doing it, it must be OK . . .

Re:g0t ir0ny? (1)

jokell82 (536447) | about 11 years ago | (#7249201)

Actually, AAC is a standard that any device can add to their list of supported formats. I'd be willing to bet that a firmware update to most mp3 players would fix that just fine. I've been told that there are a few players already that will play AAC files, but I couldn't tell you which ones...

Now, whether or not they'll play DRM-enabled AAC files from the iTMS is another story...

40 flavors... (1)

immel (699491) | about 11 years ago | (#7249063)

"Lastly, if you use Apple's music store along with iTunes, you don't have the ability of using the over 40 different Windows Media-compatible portable music devices."
Sure you do. using apple's iTunes does not automatically bar you from using other devices. People use Windows media because their player supports it, not the other way around.

iTunes for Linux? (1)

LionMan (18384) | about 11 years ago | (#7249066)

When will I finally have a good user interface to play music under linux? iTunes definitely has the best user interface I've seen in any player.

Re:iTunes for Linux? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249127)

Rhythm box [rhythmbox.org] is a Itunes like music player for Linux. I'm using on Mandrake 9.2, its really cool!

Onward, to worried! (-1, Offtopic)

Lord Bitman (95493) | about 11 years ago | (#7249075)

CHAAAAAAAAARGE!!!

nocaps nocaps nocaps nocaps nocaps nocaps nocaps nocaps

This post is _FUNNY_, okay?

Choice in devices? (1)

Xpilot (117961) | about 11 years ago | (#7249077)

...who expect choice in music services, choice in devices, and choice in music from a wide-variety of music services to burn to a CD or put on a portable device.

A wide variety of devices do not support WMA, mp3 being the most popular format. Who wants a DRM-enabled format anyway?

Has anybody noticed... (4, Interesting)

llamaluvr (575102) | about 11 years ago | (#7249086)

that music blips and skips A LOT when running on iTunes whenever you do ANYTHING else, even if it's just like opening Explorer or moving windows? When I tried it on my machine, it was very noticable, especially compared to Winamp 3, which hardly blips at all for me. My machine's no slouch, either - it's a P3 1.1 GHz with 512 MB RAM running XP Pro. I had like 3-4 programs open along with iTunes: a FTP client, Visual Studio .NET, and Mozilla, I think.

I was just wondering if anybody else had similar problems. I mean, the interface is great, but if I can't code in VS while listening to music, then it's not very worth it to me.

None at all (1)

metalhed77 (250273) | about 11 years ago | (#7249134)

I've got a mroe beefy system than yours, but itunes runs fine. Quite good for a 1.0 release.

Re:Has anybody noticed... (2, Interesting)

Matey-O (518004) | about 11 years ago | (#7249150)

Nope. None. I've noticed a slowdown when visualization is turned on, but that's it. (AMD XP 2Ghz+, 512 Mb RAM.)

Further, iTunes is the first pay service I've felt the desire to install and buy music from.

Re:Has anybody noticed... (2, Insightful)

catbutt (469582) | about 11 years ago | (#7249158)

I noticed lots of things on the interface are really slow, such as scrolling the browser window (my speakers are disconnected at the moment so i can't confirm what you say about skips). I think Steve Jobs is stretching things a bit to call it "the best windows app ever"....it looks like it could still use some optimization for the platform.

Re:Has anybody noticed... (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | about 11 years ago | (#7249211)

well, I think he was extending the logic of "it has won many industry awards as being the best jukebox out there so making it for windows means that windows has the best jukebox out there"

but I agree, they need to fix the scrolling and resizing issue.

Re:Has anybody noticed... (1)

JamesP (688957) | about 11 years ago | (#7249166)

My machine is Half yours (Celeron 900 w 192Mb memory and Win XP - it blips but not a lot )

In fact, most of the time it works just fine. (Including w surfing the net and stuff)
Burning CDs works great too...

Re:Has anybody noticed... (4, Informative)

AnyoneEB (574727) | about 11 years ago | (#7249168)

That is probably a hardware/OS problem. Your sound card IRQ is being shared with your video card's IRQ. You can check this by running MSINFO32 --> hardware resources --> conflicts/sharing. IRQ sharing occurs with Windows 2k/XP on older computers (older than P4/Athlon XP) with ACPI enabled. This problem is discussed on the WinAmp tech support boards in topics linked from here under the heading "RE: Skipping / freezing / distortion, clicking & popping during playback".

Re:Has anybody noticed... (1)

33degrees (683256) | about 11 years ago | (#7249175)

I'm running it on a P3 1 ghz laptop with less ram and I haven't had this problem at all. I have turned off all the XP eye candy though, which might make a difference...

Re:Has anybody noticed... (2, Interesting)

TheQuantumShift (175338) | about 11 years ago | (#7249180)

Not a problem here. Been using it since yesterday, and no skipping here, and I'm only running a 1.4 athlon, 256 meg machine. I had two bittorrent windows open (finally got around to getting slack 9.1), firebird, msn messenger 6.1, and IE6 pulling the latest "Features" off windows update. And I wasusing itunes to rip an old cd, while listening to the cd I had just ripped. No skipping. I'd say check you're sound card, but mines the built in ac97 type, and I don't think it gets any cheaper than that...

Are you serious? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249181)

I had like 3-4 programs open along with iTunes: a FTP client, Visual Studio .NET, and Mozilla, I think.

Are you trying to be funny, or do you mean that? You were running Visual studio and you're surprized that another app had a performance issue? Sheesh. Besides that I run VS .NET too, and I've not had that problem. I've got a 1.0 ghz Athalon with 512 mb ram.

Not at all, either (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249183)

It's been running flawlessly for me; in fact, I use it to get heavy metal Internet radio streams while playing Unreal Tournament---all with absolutly no lag, no slowdowns, no glitches, nor any errata whatsoever.

not for me, but i've heard similar complaints (2, Informative)

green pizza (159161) | about 11 years ago | (#7249187)

I haven't had a single skip with iTunes since I started using it two days ago on my 1.4 GHz P4 (which in theory is a bit slower than your 1.1 GHz P3).

I have heard skipping complaints, though, mostly from friends with older hardware, but there was one dude with a shiny new Athlon XP 2800+ that was getting some skips.

My guess is there's some driver conflict somewhere, because the skips don't seem to occur with all hardware or with just "slow" hardware. (And it runs fine on a 266 MHz G3 in Mac OS X).

Re:Has anybody noticed... (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | about 11 years ago | (#7249193)

umm...no, infact, I was uppacking a 500 MB zip file and after than I installed Office XP on my laptop and had no skips.

Re:Has anybody noticed... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249202)

I've talked to people with worse configurations than yours with no such problems. However, The one thing i've found, though, from talking to people, is that a very, very small but nontrivial proportion of the Windows users trying iTunes are having, just, well, random bizarre problems. I had a friend who every time he tries to play any audio file in iTunes it crashes, and he isn't sure why. It works fine for most people; however, if you just happen to be one of the unlucky few, your specific computer has problems with it.

llamaluvr: Use the iTunes feedback form! [apple.com] Tell them your EXACT configuration and problems. I'm just about sure that isn't supposed to be happening. I think they would be happy to have the data on your problem so they can figure out why it is happening and fix it.

Remember: Apple is accustomed to coding for one specific limited hardware platform. They're not used to the rediculous range of hardware and hardware bugs that is standard on windows. They're still having to get used to the PC world, where every computer is a beautiful and unique snowflake, and hammer out this thing that iTunes acts slightly wierd on certain people's computers and configurations. But in order to fix this, they need bug reports...

Re:Has anybody noticed... (1)

jtilak (596402) | about 11 years ago | (#7249213)

I'm running XP Pro with 256MB ram and athlon xp 1600+ and it ran perfectly for me. I also have 2 desktops running at the same time (fast user switching). mozilla firebird, explorer, opera, acdsee, aim running also with no problems.

Re:Has anybody noticed... (1, Informative)

bataras (169548) | about 11 years ago | (#7249219)

Yeah the GUI is damn slow. It looks like apple has some kind of gui emulation layer for their apple look and feel. And like gui emulation attempts over the past 15 years, it's damn slow on my 1.8ghz ath.

Cat got your tongue? (5, Insightful)

sebi (152185) | about 11 years ago | (#7249090)

Windows users like choice? Then why do most of them use Internet Explorer, Outlook Express and, well, Windows? They generally take what they are fed, right? Microsoft doesn't yet have a solution of their own for legal music downloading as far as I know. So they need some aggressive rhetoric. I was under the impression that the iTunes music store had one of the largest catalogues out there. Does the general user want to use a plethora of services to locate the right song? I don't think so, but I don't work for Microsoft's media division.

Dismissed, or just Dissed? (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | about 11 years ago | (#7249091)

Did Microsoft dismiss, or just diss iTunes.

From my point of view it is the usual MS garbage of disparaging any other system where they don't have a competative alternative in place. It's completely phony, and I hope people refuse to buy into it.

Advanced features in Media Player (2, Insightful)

botono9 (199523) | about 11 years ago | (#7249092)

Well, I'm still waiting for the day that I can drag an album or an artist to a playlist in Windows Media Player.

Microsoft is scared (5, Interesting)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | about 11 years ago | (#7249094)

"drawback for Windows users, who expect choice in music services, choice in devices, and choice in music from a wide-variety of music services to burn to a CD or put on a portable device."

ROFL! Talk about naked FUD. Choice, choice, choice. Yeah, that's the Microsoft Way, isn't it? NOT. What hypocrisy!

It's not even accurate. You CAN burn iTunes Store music to a CD. Rip it again to MP3, put it on any device you want. Oh wait, iPods are just about the best device you can use, so I'm just guessing that if you have an iPod you don't have too many other devices you care to have. For that matter, no matter what device you have, you probably don't have too many others. Why would you? Use what works and done with it.

Choice in music? Well, the biggest choice is probably Kazaa, but that's beside the point. We're talking about the pay sites, and iTMS has 400,00 and growing. Not much of a problem, and becoming less so as time goes on.

Apple just signed with Pepsi and AOL to do cross-marketing. That's some big partners to get the word out. But the word is out already. I see so many iPods in use it's amazing. In short, Apple did something right and Microsoft is running scared about it. With only the Mac market so far, Apple captured, what, 30% of paid downloads. Now the other 90% can use their service, so watch out Microsoft.

Re:Microsoft is scared (5, Informative)

gfilion (80497) | about 11 years ago | (#7249191)

With only the Mac market so far, Apple captured, what, 30% of paid downloads. Now the other 90% can use their service, so watch out Microsoft.

No, with only the Mac market, iTMS has 70% of the paid music downloads. Imagine what they'll have after Pepsi will have given 100 000 000 songs for free!

30% is the iPod market share, and they have 50% of the revenues for portable digital players.

Re:Microsoft is scared (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249206)

Well put.

It seems that people forget or simply are unaware that iTunes and iPod work with a number of formats (MP3, AAC, AIFF, WAV, Audible), the iTMS however are AAC/FairPlay files currently only iTunes and the iPod can play...give it time and other hardware devices and software (the real work is being done by QuickTime, iTunes is just the interface) may support it (but why, the iPod is already great). There seems to be a lot of choice, I can import CDs and other audio files, and iTunes supports different MP3 players, just the iTMS only supports iPods right now.

Re:Microsoft is scared (1)

Dixie_Flatline (5077) | about 11 years ago | (#7249209)

Actually, they only need to capture the REMAINING 30%. At the iTunes announcement, they revealed that with just the Mac market, the iTMS was responsible for 70% of legal downloads in the previous week. Despite all the (lousy) copycats out there, I don't expect that to go down anytime soon.

Now if only I could get it in Canada. I'd be responsible for quite a few more legal downloads.

News at 11 (1, Funny)

leerpm (570963) | about 11 years ago | (#7249096)

Software company criticizes competitor!

Why is this even news?

Slightly off-topic: iTunes problems? (1)

sailracer6 (262434) | about 11 years ago | (#7249100)

I downloaded iTunes the day it was released, and it seems to me that it has serious restrictions on the length of filenames it can import. For instance:

"Allman Brothers Band - Brothers and Sisters - 01-Wasted Words.mp3" will not work, but

"Allman Brothers Band - Brothers and Sisters - 01-Wasted Wor.mp3" will.

Why is this?

Well... (1)

Ibanez (37490) | about 11 years ago | (#7249107)

So that means I, as a Mac user, have been molded by Apple into accepting that I'm not going to have different choices?

Maybe its just because I'm studying CS, but you'd think the design philosophy of having a smaller, more specialized application for music, and a smaller more specialized app for video would make sense. God I'd hate it if I opened up either iTunes or Quicktime and had to wait even 5 seconds for it to load a 5 meg file....

That and Windows Media Player's visuals are...well...crap.

Blake

The Microsoft logic... (1)

Hackie_Chan (678203) | about 11 years ago | (#7249108)

Invest money in making better products: Expensive.

Badmouthing competitors hoping nobody will use them: Free.

Microsoft has a point, but not a solution (1)

TurboDog99 (442475) | about 11 years ago | (#7249111)

It seems clear that the music companies will not let music be made available on-line without DRM, so it will always be a necessary evil. Although there are more players available, the Windows Media format locks your music onto the Windows platform just as the iTunes Music Store locks your music into an Apple format. It would be nice if somebody could come up with true cross-platform DRM. I don't mind paying for music, but I don't want to be locked out of playing my music in Linux, for example. In my opinion, it would be nice if an Open Source DRM implementation would take hold.

oh, right... (1)

OneOver137 (674481) | about 11 years ago | (#7249118)

let's proclaim how "advanced" most Windows users are that iTMS is limiting. Now are these the same folks who "forget" to update their systems and routinely click on hot_babe_of_the_month.jpg.vbs?

MS is right, but does that mean they're right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249121)

Yes, iTunes limits you to an iPod. Yes, iTunes Music Store limits you to... uh... iTunes Music Store (I'm confused by where they think any service has a "choice of services"... and nothing stops people from using other services that also use iTMS).

But they're missing one thing... Apple isn't making money on iTMS, nor will it ever make a significant amount of money on it. It's simply trying to get it to pay for itself, and boost iPod sales. They have no reason to try to support other players, because it's the iPods they make money on - not iTMS.

How about QA problems... (1)

SuperBanana (662181) | about 11 years ago | (#7249122)

I encouraged my father to install this on his Win XP laptop. Found out a few hours later that it managed to completely hang his system on boot, trying to set up his "drivers and devices" after he restarted after installing iTunes.

He had to hit F8 during boot, choose last-known-good configuration- and then he was able to get back into his system. iTunes launched, but complained it couldn't access his burner and such. It uninstalled cleanly and completely, near as he can tell, but he's flat-out refused to try again until "version 1.1" is out and "they've done a little better job at QA".

I agree- poor effort on Apple's part to do QA, as usual(just look at the 10.2.8 update that broke half a dozen things). It's a 3-month-old Sony VAIO, not some Joe Shmoe special with some no-name burner etc.

Re:How about QA problems... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249204)

Sony VAIOs are more proprietary than Apple laptops these days. Geez, those things suck. I bet it's a crappy VAIO-only device driver causing the problem. Get your dad to ditch that for an IBM laptop or if he's willing, an Apple one. Oh just wait until the next version of Windows comes out and it won't work properly on your VAIO. Happened to two friends of mine with theirs.

Windows Media Format vs. AAC (5, Interesting)

HebrewToYou (644998) | about 11 years ago | (#7249123)

Windows media == closed format supported completely over windows and partially on the Mac and *nix. AAC == open format (Mp4) supported completely over all major platforms. DRM rules -- unlimited CD burning over the iTunes music store, three separate computers able to play downloaded tracks, unlimited iPod transfers. I truly don't understand the criticism coming from MS over the iTMS and iTunes music software. Apple has never claimed it's the end-all software jukebox -- but, as others have pointed out, it's very simple and straighforward. Much like iMovie compared to FCP or CakeWalk to ProTools, iTunes is a simple way to manage a library of music and transfer it to a number of different formats. You can easily convert CD's burnt from Mp4 (AAC) tracks over to mp3 by merely ripping the burnt CD. That allows folks to still use Mp3-CD's with their entire collection and to share them with whomever they'd like. All that I feel coming out of Redmond right now is Hot Air....especially after hearing Longhorn ain't arrivin' until '06. Long time to wait, so I'm sure there will be lots of potshots directed at Apple in the meantime.

Please allow me to Troll (2, Interesting)

RealisticWeb.com (557454) | about 11 years ago | (#7249124)

"Additionally, users of iTunes are limited to music from Apple's Music Store ... if you use Apple's music store along with iTunes, you don't have the ability of using the over 40 different Windows Media-compatible portable music devices

What typical Microsoft FUD!

That is a complete and boldfaced lie! You are absolutly NOT limited to music that you purchase from the ITMS if you use iTunes. I installed iTunes for windows the day it came out and today I have about 1.6 gig of music in my library. Guess how many of those songs are from the iTunes music store? Two. TWO! I have spent $1.98 on the ITMS and yet I have had no problem listening to all of the same music files that I had before. What that guy said was a complete lie.

About the portable devices: It is true that iTunes favors AAC encoding which is only on a limited amount of portable devices, but guess what? iTunes gives you the full ability to rip/encode with MP3! I promise you that there are more MP3 enabled devices out there than there are WMA devices, so the way I see it, iTunes has farther reach than Media Player does.He also called iTunes restrictive. Excuse me? Compared to what?! Has he even bothered to look at the WMA alternatives that his own department is putting out?

*sigh*

Ok, I'm done now.

Stop wasting your time on lousy software (5, Insightful)

dten (448141) | about 11 years ago | (#7249125)

I downloaded iTunes yesterday. Within 5 minutes I had imported my music library, set up all the options I wanted, and I was listening to music. It has a very pleasant interface and includes all the features I want -- nothing more, nothing less.

Who wants crazy flexibility when you don't even use half of the extra options and they just clutter up the user experience? I'm ditching the other jukeboxes I've been suffering with all year and sticking with iTunes. It may even influence me to buy an iPod -- if it works as seamlessly and easily as iTunes, sign me up.

I'm tired of frittering away so much time trying to overcome the learning curves of PC software and trying to get programs to work and play together. I'm not into computers because I'm in love with jerking around in advanced options settings all day long, I'm into computers because of what they can do for me. My job already pays me to spend 10 hrs a day getting computers to work, I don't want to spend the rest of my free time doing the same thing.

Mac stuff works, first time, every time, it does what you expect it to do. I think that just might be worth paying for. I think I'm going to start saving my pennies for a nice little PowerBook.

apple needs to get its head out of its ass (-1, Troll)

jtilak (596402) | about 11 years ago | (#7249131)

I have tried itunes for windows and its fucking great, and I dont even own an iPod yet. The problem with apple is that they only use software to sell hardware. iTunes is designed to get people to buy an iPod. IT SHOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND! The real profit is in selling software. Just look at Microsoft and Oracle profits compared to Dell profits if you dont think so. If apple ported OSX and its other software to the PC microsoft would be screwed. I don't understand why apple trys to make money off hardware. They could make so much more if they ported all their software to intel/AMD. They could still sell hardware, but their main focus should be software. I'm not saying they should completely get out of the hardware business. I would never say that. apple hardware is so 1337.

SONY Should be the Angry One Here (4, Insightful)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | about 11 years ago | (#7249138)

SONY should be the angry party here. They could have owned the iPod market for Windows, and they let their music division shoot down their technology division.

Funny how they still sell so many CD-burners and blank media though, isn't it?

Windows Media Player too limited for computer user (1)

pp (4753) | about 11 years ago | (#7249140)

"Unless Microsoft decides to make radical changes to their service model, a Windows-based version of Media Player will still remain a closed system, where users of any other operating systems cannot access content", said an anonymous computer user.

"Additionally, users of Windows Media Player are limited to using operating systems from Microsoft... this is a drawback for computer users, who expect choice in operating systems, choice in devices, and choice in what they want to do tomorrow, even it's burning music they've legally bought to a CD or put it on a portable OGG/MP3 player.

Lastly, if you use Windows along with a DRM-based system, you won't have the ability of using the several different free operating systems. When I'm getting software for free or a modest fee, I want to know that I have choices today and in the future.

if you're using iTunes for windows... (5, Informative)

Greenrider (451799) | about 11 years ago | (#7249148)

be sure to check out your QT settings in the control panel. If the audio out is set to DirectSound, you will probably experience muddy audio clarity. Change it to waveOut and the clarity should be just as good as it is in Winamp.

This is too stupid for words (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249152)

Additionally, users of iTunes are limited to music from Apple's Music Store

untrue

Most of this guy's comments seem to be based aroundthe fallacy that iTunes can only listen to music from the iTunes Music Store. No, it can listen to absolutely anything you, or your programs, or your perl scripts choose to import into iTunes. The only conditions is it doesn't support RealAudio or WMA. Oh, but that's what this is really all about, isn't it? ... this is a drawback for Windows users, who expect choice in music services, choice in devices, and choice in music from a wide-variety of music services to burn to a CD or put on a portable device.

But I'm pretty sure at some point in the future, Microsoft will fully believe that Windows users expect exactly one choice for this same thing, and that choice is Microsoft.

Lastly, if you use Apple's music store along with iTunes, you don't have the ability of using the over 40 different Windows Media-compatible portable music devices.

So in other words it doesn't support Microsoft's phony "standard" because MS won't license its codecs for Quicktime. If this were something that windows users cared about, this would mean that windows users could not use anything except windows media player. Odd sort of "choice", that. Funny, because the "it's only happy with the iPod as an mp3 player" argument is the most valid problem with iTunes. But MS can't point that out becuase that would be admitting people like mp3 better than wma.

This talk about Choice might mean something except that 1) it is Microsoft promoting this, and they've hardly ever been champions of consumer choice 2) iTunes gives you every option that you want as long as it is a standard media format being used. They are basically saying "iTunes doesn't give you the choice to use any service that locks you in to Windows Media Player". Well, duh.

This last quote requires no explication:

What I think is great about most of the new services available on Windows is that being built on Windows Media enables such amazing choice. For example, consumers can download music from a wide variety of music services, bring it into their media library in Windows Media Player, create playlists, and burn CDs with music aggregated from many different services. You can even transfer any or all of the music to a wide variety of portable devices. That is what Windows users love -- being able to shop around and pick and choose the products and services that work best for them.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

This entire thing is one huge advertisement for Windows Media. He says nothing except "consumers love Windows Media, therefore use Windows Media" and then lists a bunch of bizarre advantages that Windows Media doesn't have, all related to interconnectedness, funny considering no codec out there is as restricted, locked in, and limitedly-supported as WMV except for RealAudio.

(Oh, and don't give me the "iTunes limits choice because it doesn't support ogg" bullshit. If you want ogg support in iTunes, go to apple's developer documentation and find the docs for how to write a Quicktime plug-in. There's an entire plug-in architecture for Quicktime that allows you to add support for codecs, such as Ogg, that apple did not. We on the mac side already have one such plugin, and we can play oggs in iTunes. So "go read the documentation and write your own". That's the Open Source Way anyway, isn't it?)

What Choices? (1)

timeOday (582209) | about 11 years ago | (#7249157)

I recently went looking for a good online music website and hardly found anything. I haven't seen anybody offering what everybody obviously wants - a huge selection of music for low prices with immediate fulfillment.

No, I don't like the idea of integrating the music store with the music player, but I guess 1 choice is better than 0. Personally I'm not an ITunes customer because of DRM, but I don't expect Microsoft to offer anything more free... think about it, if MS did offer a music service, it just would HAVE to look exactly like iTunes - tied to other company products.

iTunes... (0)

Fweeky (41046) | about 11 years ago | (#7249160)

... is a 20MB download, has a 35MB memory footprint, doesn't support FLAC, Ogg or MPC (hence doesn't play most of my music collection), doesn't seem to support ReplayGain, has a huge slow GUI, and doesn't seem to have a plugin system that would allow me or others to fix any of these things.

So why should I use it instead of foobar2000 [foobar2000.org] , or even WinAMP?

Re:iTunes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249207)

"So why should I use it instead of foobar2000, or even WinAMP?"

The short answer is don't use it. Obviously you're not Apple's target market. Nothing new here.

iTunes not best for Windows users! (-1, Troll)

callipygian-showsyst (631222) | about 11 years ago | (#7249164)

I prefer to use XPLAY for my iPod because it doens't WIPE OUT MY IPOD when I want to sync.

Call me an apple-hater, but iTunes Windows SUCKS. I wish it didn't install quicktime.

The iTunes store doesn't work on my PC either--I get an "out of memory error" AND I HAVE 3GB of RAM!

And here's the form: (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 11 years ago | (#7249173)

"[Apple's <service>] ... is a drawback for Windows users, who expect choice in <service> services, choice in devices, and choice in <service> from a wide-variety of <service> services to burn to a CD or put on a portable device."
Did you really expect something else from Microsoft? That form filler could have been used about Windows vs OS X, WMP vs iTunes or pretty much everywhere they compete. My take is: Give me one good service (with like mainstream music) first, then we can talk about choice. Not in the US, so I can't try it anyway...

Kjella

just one more player (1)

penguin7of9 (697383) | about 11 years ago | (#7249176)

There are dozens of music players for Windows, Linux, and MacOS, some of them with tie-ins to on-line stores. While it's fairly well written and easy to use, iTunes is just one of them. If it didn't come from Apple, nobody would think it worth mentioning.

Perhaps the reason for that (1)

Tokerat (150341) | about 11 years ago | (#7249214)


...is well all know Apple is going to do it right, as opposed to the other services? ;-P

Not a bad choice for non-iPod users as well! (1)

aleewade (530935) | about 11 years ago | (#7249178)

iTunes will be the best choice for windows users who own it [iPod]
With it's simple to use UI and the ability to buy tunes, it not a bad choice for non-iPod owners either. Ripping couldn't be easier. No problems installing on an already flaky Win2k.

But where is the Linux version!?!

iTunes MP3 encoding (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249184)

This might be slightly off-topic, but does anyone know what the quality of iTune's encoded mp3's are compared to CDex or EAC?

Choice is such a subjective thing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249186)

With every digital music outlet offering 99 cents a song with a plethora of licensing schemes, what CHOICE is there really?

Ummmmmmm, doesn't iTunes for Windows. . . (1)

kfg (145172) | about 11 years ago | (#7249197)

kinda increase the number of services available to Windows users by one?

KFG

It's all the same.;;; (1)

JamesP (688957) | about 11 years ago | (#7249203)

M$ dismisses iTunes
SCO dismisses the GPL
Sun dismisses Linux
Apple dismisses x86

I'm sorry, you're dismissed....

Choice the Apple way vs. choice the Microsoft way (1)

tliet (167733) | about 11 years ago | (#7249215)

This discussion is years old and can be judged for the first time by Windows users, Mac users have known this for a long time.

It goes as follows: "Intel PCs with (or without) Windows gives you choice" (sort of.) You can choose between 10 different MP3 players, 15 word processors, 20 spreadsheets and so on. However, none of them seem to work really well and they all have their share of problems you need to work around.

Mac users don't have much choice, or so they are being told. But Mac users are usually given only one choice, the highest quality. The rest is weeded out by the Mac ecosystem. People don't buy it.

This time it's also visible for Windows users. Microsoft claims 40 different devices that will play Windows Media. However, none of these devices is an iPod and they don't even come close to the overall quality and easy of use of the iPod.

One could argue iTunes is not the best Windows MP3 player, well, remember this really is a 1.0 release on Windows. It will be improved and even for an 1.0 product, it's quite better than the 6 releases of the Windows Media Player before Microsoft got it sort of right.

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7249220)

Additional Microsoft spokespersons were quoted as saying, "Up is down; black is white; and we invented the personal computer."

AC reporting live from the Ministry of Love.
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