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Ask Slashdot: Full Shoutcast on Linux?

HeUnique posted more than 15 years ago | from the show-Linux-power dept.

Linux 82

A friend of mine had asked me this question: "it seems that if I want to run a full "Radio station" on Linux only, I can't, since the streamer needs Windows. Is there a way to do it using Linux Only from top to bottom? and what hardware is needed? What software?" I'm sure many others would like to know also how..

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82 comments

WCSB is Linux based. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047169)

Check out http://www.wcsb.org/, which uses cyberradio1 and AudioActive. I'm pretty sure nothing touches Windows there. (And I'm bugging one of the maintainers of the site now to make sure he replies....)

wine -managed winamp.exe & (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047170)

last time i checked, this worked... ~ 1.9

x11amp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047171)

x11amp (along with several other players) would cut it too, if it wasn't that this fella needed a streaming piece of software (I guess :-).

Doesn't Red Hat Linux 5.1Come w/Real Media Server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047172)

Shouldn't this be all that you need?

i've done it.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047173)

i used the software @ http://szyzyg.arm.ac.uk/~spm/mp3serv.html and it _did_ work.. it just needs some help at the moment (full duplex support, non-OSS sound support, etc)

netstreamer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047174)

i personaly like netsreamer..
it uses a ADPCM compression and is GPL'ed.
it comes with encode, decoder a server and nice grafical player for X and for windoze

ftp://flits102-126.flits.rug.nl/pub/NetStreamer/

realaudio is propritary and should not be used..
direct mp3 is a bit too bandwith intensive and
too expensive to encode in realtime.

Lame: wine -managed winamp.exe & (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047175)

Why would any Linux user waste time futzing around with wine and winamp?

Just run x11amp...

sheesh.

Idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047176)

Do any of you jackoffs actually read the top-level posts? He's talking about a Shoutcast server - not a RealAudio server.

RealAudio quality is garbage compared to a nicely-encoded mp3.

Ok, now what solution out there works? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047177)

A few points:

#1 - As long as your client is supported on the operating systems used by most users, I don't believe your audience would be increased significantly by porting to BeOS or OS/2. It would be nice to have the client on these platforms, but the majority of your listeners will be using Windows and Macintosh.

#2 - You don't have to buy the RealPlayer. Point your browser to www.real.com and click on the blue button on the right side of the page that says "Free RealPlayer G2." If you don't want to buy the retail version, you don't have to. Honest.

#3 - RealPlayer G2 is a 2.65 MB download. 8 hours? I certainally hope you get more than 1 Kb/second on your modem at home. The performance of any streaming media solution will be less than awe-inspiring with a connection that slow. :-) As for needing a T-1 for decent quality audio, I am actually quite impressed with the quality of RealAudio G2 at 28.8, although this is purely subjective.

To be fair, I should mention that I used to work for RealNetworks, so my opinion is hardly objective. Nevertheless, I believe Lumpy's post was a bit unfair.

RealServer runs _very_ well on Linux, and RealNetworks says that RealProducer G2 and RealPlayer G2 for Linux are in the works. The Basic RealServer is free (25 streams), the RealProducer is free, as is the RealPlayer is. I realize that those seeking an open-source solution will not be satisified, and I understand. But with this solution, you will be able to run a 'net station using nothing but Linux.

While I would certainally be impressed with a package that offered a "tiny client", produces high fidelity sound at 14.4 and ran on any platform with a C complier, I'm not certain that this expectation is entirely realistic.

Streaming Audio: it's possible. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047178)

I put up a very ugly and extremely limited demo of some streaming audio done with non-proprietary software (I'm using OS/2 to be specific, but it would work fine with Linux. Linux would actually be a lot easier, faster, and better.) Take a peek at http://iiinet.ml.org:8/streaming-au dio-example/ [ml.org]

I know it doesn't seem like the audio is streaming because it isn't from a live source, but it is. It's streaming from a program that simply plays those boring clips.

Yes, I realize the first one is one second long. I'm two weary to fix it right now.

Don't ask me for the software behind it; I'm using a non-opensource webserver (of alpha quality IMO) and it isn't doing any compression on the fly. You'll have to figure out how to do that for yourself. My own extremely experimental testing shows it can be done.

Here's what I've learned:

    1. Streaming is possible over HTTP. Quality seems decent although the recovery isn't as good as RealAudio's (not that RealAudio's is good either). Quality is passable over 28800 baud modems, equivilent to mono AM radio. You can get stereo AM radio or mono FM radio over 56K modems (provided those 56K modems are getting connections of at least 40000 baud). It's easy to do things with named pipes. That's how I did because some of my tools were closed source (yuck). MP3 files are tileable; that at is, they can be split apart without getting troubles due to missing headers. I don't understand the MP3 format, but the blocks that my encoder put it out were seperate, independent entities.

I am no MP3 wizard nor audio streaming wizard. Do your own research or ask someone who knows. I just want to let you know it's possible!

Just ask justin ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047179)

Well, a good idea first would be to gladly ask Justin Frankel (Winamp and shoutcast author) to release the source code or the specs of his ShoutCast client, so we could port it under Linux using BladeEnc as encoder (by example) ...

rOn/aEGiS (K-Jofol author)

netstreamer works over 28K as well.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047180)

it has to modi: one 56k (16bit) and 28K (8bit). have not tested the slow one though..
and it is open source so you can improve it...

Lame: wine -managed winamp.exe & (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047181)

why?

maybe to test wine...

pot/kettle/black (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047182)

Me again...

Did you read the title of the original post?

pot/kettle/black (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047183)

He mentions Shoucast in the suject/title of the post. Have you visited www.shoutcast.com?

stateless protocol != streaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047184)

uhhh, Beavis, HTTP is connectionless/stateless/streamless

Words suck!

Well, what about real time _DJ_ing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047185)

That's half the fun in SHOUTcast is the whole realtime DJing w/ your microphone!!!

I haven't seen much mention of that here...

I still think the design of SHOUTcast is ASS-BACKWARDS, I mean _why_ would you want to _decode_ a mp3 then _encode_ it then send it toa server AND then have that server send the data.

I think this could be done in three steps rather than four.

Linux streamer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047186)

I can very easily write a streaming engine and broadcaster for linux... in fact I have alot of it done and have thought about setting up a station. There are some problems, Though, with down sampleing.. and I would love to start a project to get this working. There isn't any real reason we can't make a transmitter that hooks into the audio system of Linux and transmitts all... but a nice fancy interface would be nice.

I'll do the mp3 stuff if someone wants to make the interface...

BTW... I play shoutcast w/ mpg123...


Jbest@magnacom.net

major Blunder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047187)

Hello--ever heard of mpg123?

Yeesh-maybe you *should* downgrade to Windoze or MacOS--if you can't figure out this one, stay under the porch and let the big dawgs do the tough stuff.

WCSB is Linux based -- excellent station also! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047188)

WCSB is an excellent radio station. When I lived in Cleveland it was my favorite station. I think it may be my all time favorite radio station I've ever listened to. Almost any kind of music you don't hear on other mainstream stations you can get, anything from rap to techno to jazz to hardcore punk. I didn't realize I could get the broadcast over the internet. Highly recommended!

Shoutcast IS available for Linux! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047189)

The server is available in binary form for Linux, FreeBSD, IRIX, Solarix, AIX, and Win32 from:
http://www.shoutcast.com/download.html

Shoutcast is simply http streaming. Any MP3 player that can handle streaming MP3 can listen to Shoutcast broadcasts.

I hope this technology takes off, because I don't want to have to use Windows to listen to streaming audio. This same technology could be applied to streaming video as well.

radio stations & southcast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047190)

I remember the other day some bloke on #computers turned up that wanted to use a Nx586 90Mhz rackmount thingy with a small b&w CRT & Hercules GC to serve via Shoutcast.

Needless to say, running Windows [whatever] was barely an option.

My advice to him was to contact nullsoft, tell them to get their fingers out of their asses and proceed to make the following if they want southcast to be usable professionally:

take the winamp plugin that they made for linerec://, the shoutcast plugin, come up with some mp3 codec limited to, say 56K from somewhere, and port it over to FreeBSD or Linux.

Problem solved.

You'd just have to setup *bsd/linux, set up a shoutcast server, and run that proggie that encodes line input and throws it at the server.

one could make a nice console utility to display up-to-date connection stats too. Station managers would love it.

So there.

-W

netstreamer-- it works... just try it, you'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047191)

Netstreamer works fine at 33.6kbps

I was evean able to surf text only while listening to an audio stream while connected at 33.6kbps.

Now, with that said, good luck finding something that will encode 8bit MP3. If you can find the old 8mhz tools, you're in business (this brings up an interesting question... if Fraunhoffer finds your 8bit encodings, can they sue you for potentially having used their encoder, or do they have to catch you in the act of encoding? (does the IP for the encoder extend to the data that has been encoded?))

The other performance related notes...

NetStreamer, at this point in time, will not do live Streams (As far as I know... If I'm wrong, please enlighten me).

NetStreamer, does not scale like IP multicast. Having more than a handful of simultanious listeners gets bandwidth expensive quickly. The days of a million listener, live broadcast internet radio IS NOT HERE YET.

shoutcast protocol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047192)

as far as i can see, the protocol works something like this:

-connect (default port 8001 -- the config port)-
[password]
icy-name:[yourservername]
icy-url:[server-url]
icy-genre:[genre]
icy-pub:[public or not, 1 or 0]
icy-br:[bitrate]

[mp3 data]

-end connection-

I am not 100% sure about this though. You cannot for example simply 'cat' an mp3 to the server, it needs to be streamed realtime. A lame way to do this would be something in the line of "mpg123 -s | l3enc | serverpipe", otherwise a simple real-time mp3cat would be cooler I suppose.

-- trax@the-force.ml.org [mailto]

Ok, now what solution out there works? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047193)

Ok, I spent five years designing, developing and
marketing, what is now IBM's product for the
radio industry...... what went wrong? It ran on
OS/2..... nobody wants it.

RealProducer G2 for Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047194)

On the RealProducer download page (http://proforma.real.com/mario/tools/producer.htm l?wp=798tools), it says "Available for Windows 95/98/NT -- Mac and UNIX coming soon." RealAudio Encoder 3.1 is still available for Linux if you only want to broadcast audio (using the pre-G2 codecs, of course.) There's a link to it on the RealProducer G2 page.

Either your salesperson is mistaken, or this web page is wrong. Give him/her another call and see what you can dig up.

I have one mostly written. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047195)

I would love to use it. I help run Extreme Radio(emradio.cx) and we are trying to broadcast 24/7. But since alot of our people run linux, like me, it limits the amounts of DJ's we can have.

Just ask justin ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047196)

Ya, where is that Kjofol port that we are all waiting for?

I have one mostly written. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047197)

Forgot my nick, I am in windows, cough cough, to dj.

Jeff Knox
jknox@ethergate.com
emradio.cx

Well, what about real time _DJ_ing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047198)

You relize you cant do that dont you? You have to take your mp3s and encode them at a lower bit rate, you cant stream at 128k, and have the other machine deal with it. Also, the decoding is done at the client machine. You play the mp3 -> it encodes it at lower bit rate -> send to server -> client plays the mp3, decoding it in real time.

Jeff Knox
emradio.cx

Shoutcast Linux Server Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047199)

I have the source code for the shoutcast linux server. Not sure if its the current version, but it is the source for the shoutcast server. And we use it. I will put it up at ftp.strangeness.org/pub/upload as shoutd.c

Jeff Knox
emradio.cx

Here's an old link I found ... Linux Phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047200)

I just happened to be poking around when I came across this link: http://www.lightlink.com/mhp/lpp/ [lightlink.com] . It says web integration as a future possibility and since it already supports multicast and realtime streaming, it sounds like it would be a minor mod, though I haven't looked at it at all. fyi

UDP broadcasting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047201)

Yeah, UDP is the way to go!

Here's the page to HIPRadio [utwente.nl] (http://biereco.student .utwente.nl/hipradio.html), with source code for their hack.

Streaming Audio: it's possible. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047202)

No, just lazy. =) Besides, I try to keep things
small for the users on the 14.4k dialups (although
one image or two and perhaps a column in the left
for a sidebar might have been nice).



Joshua Rodd.

realaudio not proprietary... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047203)

...at least not the protocol. It's either awaiting approval or already approved by the IETF. I hear there's a rather outdated but informative GPL sample implementation available somewhere...

- RF (dfelker@cnu.edu)

Re: FreeAmp is working on it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047204)

You guys (at freeamp) are funny.
First you make freeamp (ala all the other *amps),
now you copy shoutcast by making outcast?

Jeez, try at least getting original names, then
work on original ideas..

mp3serv - a quick hack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047205)

Yes I know it's over a year old - but it does exactly what you want

http://szyzyg.arm.ac.uk/~spm/mp3serv.html

mp3serv - a quick hack - giant live.mp3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047206)

is there any way to limit the growth of the buffer file live.mp3?

-- trax

FreeAmp is working on it (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2047207)

We're working on it at two levels. First, at the reproduce-what-they-have level, and second at the do-it-the-right-way level. We'd like lots of input. Consider joining outcast-dev@freeamp.org (send subscribe outcast-dev to majordomo@freeamp.org)

its called multicasting (1)

Eric Clark (562) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047208)

its called multicasting in case you wanted to know.

I want a simple answer about Shoutcast (1)

erik umenhofer (782) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047209)

Everyone talks about real audio and http streams but I want a shoutcast answer, the perl guy is what i'm talking about. He's writing a perl scipt to do the job. I want answers!!!

Lame: wine -managed winamp.exe & (1)

pingouin (783) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047210)

Why would any Linux user waste time futzing around with wine and winamp?


Just run x11amp...


Because, when last I checked, the x11amp people have streaming audio (which is the topic here) so far down the todo list that it has to leap on a pogo stick to touch bottom. Streaming .m3u (used by WCSB and WCLV) files via mpg123 has been hit-and-miss for me (v0.59o and v0.59k - haven't tried v0.59p yet...). I would really love for this sort of stuff to work, since it promises to be far more open than RealAudio, which - as someone has pointed out here - doesn't have clients for Alpha and PPC Linux (et mucho alia, I'll bet). Hell, Real doesn't even have the G2 Player ported to x86 Linux yet, AFAIK (RSN... RSN... we promise... RSN... RSN... don't call us, we'll call you...).

--

USE REALAUDIO (1)

pingouin (783) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047211)

How many other sites use Audioactive?

I suspect it's an ever-dwindling list. My hometown station WABC is no longer listed, and KFJC's server was down when last I checked.

What's the URL for the list of sites?

Try here [audioactive.com] ; there's probably a few more out there, like hr-XXL [hr-xxl.de] and WVTC [wvtc.net] , that use mp3 or Audioactive for their streams.

--

If you want to use RealAudio... (1)

Don Negro (1069) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047212)

you can do so with a regular old http server. The method for doing so is buried in Real's site somewhere. Try searching for "http streaming" or streaming without realserver.

I'll go look for it and see if I can find the URL.

That's not the point (1)

alta (1263) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047213)

I don't know if used used Shoutcast yet, but sounds quality is much better than RA. Remember, these are mp3's goin' across. I can finally get something listenable with my 56k, when I couldn't with RA.

I have one mostly written. (1)

Drel (1281) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047214)

Sure, sounds good. Can you throw up a URL
once you've got something workable?

Cheers,
Drel

UDP broadcasting? (1)

drago (1334) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047215)

Me and some friends will try to write sth. like that the next weekend, since we had the same idea some time ago... If we're successful we'll release it.

Multicasting? (1)

jd (1658) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047216)

Point-to-point streaming is very hardware & network intensive. It's also (necessarily) very poor quality. You're better off setting up a radio station which uses multicasting, and RAT. Then you need virtually no additional hardware or software, and you'll end up with a radio station vastly superior to all those RealAudio ones.

Well, what about real time _DJ_ing? (1)

six (1673) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047217)

Shoutcast is not an mp3->raw->mp3 converter !

It takes _any_ audio in (mp3, mic, line in, cd or mixed) so IMHO They're doing it the right way ...

Anyway, even if it was just a mp3 broadcasting engine, the decoding&encoding would be needed because you don't want to stream a 128kbps file to modem users and it must be encoded to a lower bitrate.

USE REALAUDIO (1)

glomph (2644) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047218)

I can state with some authority that a large fraction of the live radio stations on the internet are 100% linux-based. RealAudio encoding, and serving. NOT http-based (you
cannot do live streaming via http)

And there's a Linux player, as well.

All of the above available for free (for personal
use) at http://www.real.com

you could do a streaming mp3 one (1)

aheitner (3273) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047219)

You could do a slightly-cheesy (no true "live" broadcast) one w/an ftp or http server and many mp3 players. mpg123 certainly will play off a URL. I don't know if winamp does, but if you only care that linux people can listen :)

I believe it's possible to set up real streams off any http server (as the above poster mentioned) but I don't know what software is required from Real for realtime-audio compression for "live" radio. I imagine it takes up a good bit of processor power -- their player is certainly slow enough (though considering how much faster my mp3 player is, a good open-source rewrite of realplayer could speed things up a great deal...)

mp3 -- not that bad (1)

aheitner (3273) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047220)

Sure, full quality mp3 would be too expensive to compress. But most streamed audio isn't anywhere near 128kbit, stereo, 44khz. A typical real stream is like 8 or 16kbit to be easy on the modems -- and I bet at that low level mp3's get relatively cheap to compress...

major Blunder (1)

Pascal Q. Porcupine (4467) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047221)

This is somewhat similar to the horrible ResRocket DRGN [resrocket.com] situation. All of their servers are Linux-based, but they have no plans of supporting Linux for a client. They say that if you can get it to work under an emulator, great (which won't happen until Wine does proper lowlevel MIDI support, rather than just remapping the MCI device - if this is no longer the case, PLEASE let me know!) and one guy who used to work there almost did a shell of a half-assed port of the client to Linux... which didn't work. :P

So until then, it's not worth the effort to reboot into Windoze just to try to jam semi-live with people online and find out that everyone on is only listening, nobody's playing. A song of mine on there ("Lackluster") was still sitting there, untouched and undeleted (obviously), for several months last time I connected. I think it was in studio 17. Also last time I connected, I tried to get people to jam with me, and I just ended up recording a solo jazz improv for a while, and then gave up, lonely and depressed.

If I want to do that, there's several Linux MIDI sequencers already. :P
---

Hmmmm. ok. . . (1)

heller (4484) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047222)

There are a number of ways to broadcast live audio over the net without Windows. Real Audio has already been mentioned.

However, I'm the admin for WCSB's (http://www.wcsb.org) audioactive streaming linux server> The audioactive unit (http://www.audioactive.com) is a piece of hardware that does real time mpeg3 encoding in hardware. It is made by telos systems, a well known name in the radio business.

The system was designed to run with linux. The servers to stream the mp3 stream was originally designed to run on Linux.

** Martin

major Blunder. . .nice attitude. (1)

heller (4484) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047223)

Of course, since you didn't read the rest of my post you didn't notice that it simply streams mp3. Almost any mp3 player that can handle mp3 streams will play audioactive.

** Martin

major Blunder. . .nice attitude. (1)

heller (4484) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047224)

xaudio works.

it'ld be a breeze to add it to x11amp if they'ld just release the source code or give it to me to add. . .

I should add streaming to freeamp. . .

** Martin

USE REALAUDIO (1)

heller (4484) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047225)

Can't live stream via http? Odd. Audioactive does exactly that. WCSB uses it. It can be done.

** Martin

UDP broadcasting? (1)

Steev (5372) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047226)

How about broadcasting to a subnet, or at least everyone in your collision domain (such as an office network), via UDP packets? This would allow everyone on that subnet to listen to your mp3's (or whatever) with only the bandwidth that it takes for one person to play one mp3.

I had this idea before SHOUTcast came out...not that I think it's better :) My idea would necessitate a new client app to play the stream :(

RealPlayer Basic Server Free for up to 25 Sessions (1)

abond (6210) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047227)

They have a Basic Server G2 for Linux that you can download for free:
http://proforma.real.com/mario/eval/download.htm l?program=basic

Sort of done this before (1)

Koos (6812) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047228)

For HIP'97 [hip97.nl] (the big hackers meeting in August 1997 in the Netherlands) we've done something similar as shoutcast. Named HIP Radio [utwente.nl] , a radio station on the network.

We adapted mpg123 to transmit the mpeg frames in udp broadcast packets from an mp3 at the same rate as it fed them to the audio system.

The client was a quite simple UDP packet receiver that fed the data again to stdout which could then be played with mpg123 -.

The software (mpg123 patches and client) is still available, if someone wants to adopt this to Shoutcast format, be our guest. I'll ask Remco to put the patches for the 'transmitter' on the above HIPradio page.

Hi bandwidth low CPU live DJ on campus! (1)

BeanDip (6955) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047229)

OK
I'm wondering,
I attend New Mexico Tech, and to be brutally honest, our campus radio station has one of the shittiest selections of music in the world. I was thinking, since mostly everyone on campus who listens also has a connectin to the LAN, I'd like to start an MP3 streaming radio station which could cycle through a playlist which I could easily have created and updated in realtime through user selection on my webpage on my box. I would also like the ability to breakin and make comments via the mic in on my soundcard not necessarily during songplay, but maybe between songs bandwidth doesn't matter as listeners would only be on campus on the LAN, but I would like less cpu usage or a program which would take advantage of my second processor so as not to slow down my GIMP/XMAMEing. What server/clients /etc exist which might meet my needs, or could be easily modified to do so?

-N8

interested in helping with shoutcast/apache mod? (1)

MbM (7065) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047230)

shoutcast is just an http server with a modified header that will pipe out a streaming mp3. Infact they're so similar it should be easily possible to modify apache to serve both web pages and shoutcast streams.
linux lacks a good way to encode a streaming mp3 in realtime but for development purposes i'm sure we could play around with just sending a static file to anyone that connects.

anyone interested in starting an apache/shoutcast project with me?
- MbM

On-the-fly encoding... (1)

MbM (7065) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047231)

You are correct that fifos may be used for streaming encoding but there are a few problems, for one there really isn't any encoders that will go 24 or 32 hz for encoding a low end mp3 as needed and those that can to it do it very slow and the encoded stream will lag over 30 seconds from the input (which imho is terrible). There's not much that can be done about this because of patent issues on encoders and most encoders being closed source.
I think there's also extra header information that is intered in the stream at key intervals so if a client joins late they are able to read the next header and pick up the stream from there. I don't think there is support for this in linux encoders.

I'm planning mostly on getting the webserver to understand the shoutcast headers and play a pre generated file and afterwards let someone else fill in the encoder part.

basic http header:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Content-Type: text/html

shoutcast header:

ICY 200 OK
icy-notice1:
This stream requires Winamp [winamp.com]

icy-notice2:SHOUTcast Distributed Network Audio Server/win32 v1.0b

icy-name: something
icy-genre: something
icy-url:http://whatever
icy-pub:1
icy-br:24

Note that even the connection accept codes (200 OK) are the same, all that really needs to be done now is to figure out what winamp sends to the server and how to tell that apart from a web page request at which point you can use the shoutcast header above as a template and send it any mp3 stream you want. This is also why you can use mpg123 to play a shoutcast stream.


- MbM

FreeAmp is working on it (1)

doomy (7461) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047232)

Freeamp is kinda ok. But right now it takes roughly about 50-85% CPU usage on my shitty Cyrix box. While mpg123 and x11amp.. hang around a nice 32-40. With that type of on the fly mp3 decoding and encoding, I dont think my machine would be able to handle freeamp anymore.

What I'd say is.. first fix your software so that it's as optimized as it is for any platform out there.. then think about plugins and streamers..
--

shoutcast protocol/mpg123 HOWTO (1)

doomy (7461) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047233)

You can see the protocol (hehe) by looking at the headers

lynx -source http://localhost:8000/


For a nice jigtter free mpg123 based shoutcast stream do

lynx -source http://localhost:8000/ | mpg123 -


Ofcourse you should be running a server on localhost or reflecting another server through it.. Use mpg123 59p.. if you have a k6-2.. you can compile this with 3Dnow.. and a lot of other options.. (there is optimization for 386, 486 and pentiums also support for esound, nas and a lot of o other such beasts).

Hmmm.. on the fly mp3 decompression/encoding? hmm... have no clue :)
--

Try freeamp? (1)

jwm (7499) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047234)

I beleive the freeamp developers were looking into doing this at some point, though freeamp still needs plenty of work to catch up to the likes of winamp.

Actually I've put together an informal survey [plain.co.nz] of a number of mp3 player engines, and I'd like some feedback before seriously testing them all with a proper set of mp[123] streams. Check it out.

Try freeamp? (1)

jwm (7499) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047235)

That's pretty much what the survey I did found. Personally, I think the authors of these projects should have a go at talking to each other to try to develop a single decoder library so they can all get on with designing UI's that suit the myriad of uses people have.

Real Audio (1)

navindra (7571) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047236)

There seems to be a Real Audio server for Linux out there. I installed it for a client once.

-N.

And why doesn't anyone want it? (1)

Arkay (8440) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047237)

Because IBM told them not to use it. IBM told them to use Windows NT, not OS/2.

And what is this product, anyway? How much does it cost? Is it a CLIENT or SERVER type product?

Oh, and did I say that IBM is responsible for people not wanting to use OS/2.

BTW, since this thread is about a low cost solution, I can guarantee that if you had a low cost OS/2 solution, then your statement that nobody wants it is false.


-- Richard R. Klemmer
WebTrek L.L.C.

Shoutcasting using AMP or Esound. (NO Win*) (1)

olle (10428) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047238)

Check out my summary of streaming to Shoutcast servers at: http://members.xoom.com/olle_101/
It's really pretty easy..

/olle

djfrog -- live streaming mp3 server in perl (1)

1101z (11793) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047239)

I just sent several hours looking for excatly what you are talking about. With no luck had desided to askslashdot about it when I found someone had done it for me. If you get it to work it would be great for anyone with on a LAN. Please let us know if you get it working

Ok, now what solution out there works? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047240)

Here's the problem..
Most of the solutions provided so far will work so someone can make a "buddy" radio station... AKA the same thing we did with walkie talkies wher we were 6. If you want to do a real net radio station there are 3 HUGE things that must be met.. #1 the client program has to run on everything.. Linux,Win,Mac,BeOS,Os/2,os-9,.... It has to unless you want to tell a huge chunk of people that they are worthless morons for using the computer they have.
#2 if you want people to listen to your atation they will not pay for the client program. I wont buy a retail version of real-audio, noone in their right mind would.

#3 if the free client the listener uses takes 8 hours to download and needs 32meg of hdd space and requires a T-1 line to hear decent audio you will not be listened to. It's a fact! 90% of your listeners will have 33.6 or lower speed modems. real audio sucks for low speed streams, real audio's client is more bloated than win95, and real audio is currently favored because every winbox has it on it!

So If you can find an audio streamer that compresses as good as mp3, the playback client is tiny, I can listen to a lower quality audio feed at 14.4bps, and the client runs on anything that has a C compiler (non of them damn libs either!) you've got your radio station!!

only problem is that product dont exist...
if it did, Real Audio would be dead.

hehehe, I know.... do as I say, not as I do n/m (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047241)

..

Lame: wine -managed winamp.exe & (1)

chrisv (12054) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047242)

Hm, actually I've heard from people who have used winamp+wine under linux, it runs with less cpu load than do some of the linux mp3 players. (unfortunately i have no experience here because i don't listen to mp3's, no sound card)

Live line-in streaming (1)

-=Zak=- (12712) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047243)

The question I have, related to the original question, is: How to replace WinAMP + linerec.dll + shoutcast.dll with a Linux solution. I don't care if the Shoutcast server is running on Linux, Win32, or whatever. Or even if it's Shoutcast for that matter (could be any software that will relay what I'm playing to the rest of the world via "standard" http streaming audio).

The first piece of the puzzle would be the real-time encoding to low bit-rate MP3 files. How can I read the line-in in Linux? Next, how can I take that line-in and pipe it to l3enc (or something faster -- and something that supports the smaller bitrates too) to create MP3 files in realtime? Next, how do I take that output of l3enc and feed it to Shoutcast server (or whatever server)?

Looks like three steps need to be accomplished. Those first two haven't been discussed at all...

RedHat-5.1 was ready to serve. (1)

BlackCat (13742) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047244)

I was running Linux-only "radio station" using RedHat-5.1. It was two-boxes set: our intranet server was running pnserver, and my desktop box, equipped with Aztech FM card and ESS1868 sound card, was running rmenc. It took about 20%cpu on P166. Why it was stopped? rmenc dumps core with ess1868 on every kernel greater than 2.0.35. Yes, it works with SB16, and I'm waiting for it :)

djfrog -- live streaming mp3 server in perl (1)

acd (13756) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047245)

I've written some software which does live mp3 "radio station" type streaming. Listeners can choose what songs they'd like to hear via the web or an IRC bot. They can also submit URLs, and the server will fetch the mp3 and stream it out to everyone. Each user has a specific queue and equal priority when it comes to who's song gets played next. A buddy of mine is working on a mysql index backend which will be pretty cool too. Oh yeah -- its all written in perl. :)

My software differs from shoutcast in that it doesn't re-encode the mp3s it streams out. It just reads pre-encoded files off the disk and streams them out to everyone. You don't need a winamp frontend to make my stuff work, tho you can't do voiceovers as easily as with the shoutcast stuff.

I'm probably going to package everything up and release it for people to play with. Anyone interested?

Andrew

I have one mostly written. (1)

EMR (13768) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047246)

I am writing a perl program to feed mp3 data to a shoutcast server. I have got it to log in. send server info and stream data. I just to to make it slowly feed the data to shoutcast. If some wants it i'll release it.

radio station on linux. (1)

zerian (13893) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047247)

I run a fully functional station using win95 and mp3 file library. It is easy to do. Find a mp3 player (one that has playlist editor) that will run on one of the many xwindows managers. The only problem is encoding all of the station's CD's into mp3s. Very time consuming. Of course you can alway just play music using the CD-rom (i'd put two on that machine) or use a mixer and hook up whatever you want to the mixer and plug it into the sound card. Simple enough. As for software, I haven't seen very much out in the world of freeware or shareware. Plenty of companies make very expensive software for radio stations and specific platforms. Good luck and make sure you have all of the apropiate liscenses needed for broadcasting over the airwaves or the Internet. I promise, you don't want the FCC or RIAA after you.

udp, sip, and rtsp...search for more info (1)

zerian (13893) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047248)

These are all streaming protocols and still being tested and such. The sip protocol has a mailing list on isi.edu (don't remember the exact address, but you may be able to find more info on www.real.com and search for rtsp or sip info).

Windows Only Streamer? (1)

ash (98519) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047249)

I could have sworn that FP had a something like this for Linux.

Try freeamp? (1)

spifman (184259) | more than 15 years ago | (#2047250)

Unfortunately, mpg123 is not GPL, so we can't use it (and, we believe splay (which is GPL) is based too heavily on amp (which means if we use it in our software it could leave us open to a lawsuit from the people who now own amp).

As far as working on the speed of the decoder, we have someone doing that. Unfortunately, writing hand optimized assembly is not something that happens overnight. I personally would rather work on other stuff while this other guy we have works on the optimization.

I am personally interested in seeing what engine X11amp uses whenever they release.

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