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Reading, Writing, RFID

michael posted about 11 years ago | from the lockdown dept.

Privacy 650

supabeast! writes "Wired has a story about a public charter school in Buffalo that now tracks student attendence with mandatory RFID tags. The school's director said 'All this relates to safety and keeping track of kids...Eventually it will become a monitoring tool for us..' In the future the system will expand to '...track library loans, disciplinary records, cafeteria purchases and visits to the nurse's office...punctuality...and to verify the time [students] get on and off school buses.' I think that we can all stop calling the privacy advocates paranoid now."

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I GOT A GREASED UP YODA DOLL SHOVED UP MY ASS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303272)

STRAIGHT BALLIN!

I FUCING HATE YOU! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303309)

I hate everyone.

Fuck you all.

Love Always,
News For Turds

Security cameras... (2, Insightful)

BJZQ8 (644168) | about 11 years ago | (#7303274)

Kids in schools are already treated to an all-day tracking with security cameras virtually everywhere but the toilets...and maybe there too...

Re:Security cameras... (1)

Deaper (659229) | about 11 years ago | (#7303326)

So that makes it ok? It's scary that parents allow this.

Re:Security cameras... (1)

BJZQ8 (644168) | about 11 years ago | (#7303360)

No, I don't think it makes it okay...but with the way the world is going, we will have cameras in our breakfast cereals before long...

Re:Security cameras... (1)

gmack (197796) | about 11 years ago | (#7303502)

"we will have cameras in our breakfast cereals before long"

That Has already been done. [fda.gov]

Re:Security cameras... (1)

sandman935 (228586) | about 11 years ago | (#7303426)

Allow it? As a parent, I endorse it.

Re:Security cameras... (1)

cgranade (702534) | about 11 years ago | (#7303473)

Maybe a parent, you could take authority into your own hands instead of asking the government to do it for you... they don't care about your kid.

Re:Security cameras... (1)

Kenja (541830) | about 11 years ago | (#7303485)

Lord forbid YOU have to keep track of and raise your kids. Little brats get in the way of your "me" time dont they? Just slap a tracking collar on them and hope for the best.

Re:Security cameras... (2, Funny)

`Sean (15328) | about 11 years ago | (#7303464)

I can just imagine the 911 call now... "Johnny is missing! His RFID tag reports that he's moving slowly underneath the school and...into the sewer? Quick, get a K9 out here now!"

full story (-1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303275)

Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,60898, 00.html 02:00 AM Oct. 24, 2003 PT Gary Stillman, the director of a small K-8 charter school in Buffalo, New York, is an RFID believer. While privacy advocates fret that the embedded microchips will be used to track people surreptitiously, Stillman said he believes that RFID tags will make his inner city school safer and more efficient. Stillman has gone whole-hog for radio-frequency technology, which his year-old Enterprise Charter School started using last month to record the time of day students arrive in the morning. In the next months, he plans to use RFID to track library loans, disciplinary records, cafeteria purchases and visits to the nurse's office. Eventually he'd like to expand the system to track students' punctuality (or lack thereof) for every class and to verify the time they get on and off school buses. "That way, we could confirm that Johnny Jones got off at Oak and Hurtle at 3:22," Stillman said. "All this relates to safety and keeping track of kids.... Eventually it will become a monitoring tool for us." Radio-frequency identification tags -- which have been hailed as the next-generation bar code -- consist of a microchip outfitted with a tiny antenna that broadcasts an ID number to a reader unit. The reader searches a database for the number and finds the related file, which contains the tagged item's description, or in the case of Enterprise Charter, the student's information. Unlike bar codes, which must be manually scanned, RFID-tagged items can be read when they are in proximity to a reader unit, essentially scanning themselves. The school uses passive RFID tags that are activated when radio waves from the reader reach the chip's antenna. (Active RFID tags incorporate a battery that constantly broadcasts the chip's ID number and are much more expensive.) The technology has raised a ruckus in recent months, as companies such as Wal-Mart move from bar codes to RFID to track merchandise and libraries place the chips in books to streamline loans. Privacy advocates worry that the technology will be used to track people without their knowledge. But for Stillman, whose public school is located in a gritty Buffalo neighborhood, RFID is about accounting for the whereabouts of his charges and streamlining functions. "Before, everything was done manually -- each teacher would take attendance and send it down to the office," he said. "Now it's automatic, and it saves us a lot of time." The charter school's 422 students wear small plastic cards around their necks that have their photograph, name and grade printed on them, and include an embedded RFID chip. As the children enter the school, they approach a kiosk where a reader activates the chip's signal and displays their photograph. The students touch their picture, and the time of their entry into the building is recorded in a database. A school staffer oversees the check-in process. The school spent $25,000 on the ID system. The $3 ID tags students wear around their necks at all times incorporate the same Texas Instruments smart labels used in the wristbands worn by inmates at the Pima County jail in Texas. Similar wristbands are used to track wounded U.S. soldiers and POWs in Iraq and by the Magic Waters theme park in Illinois for cashless purchases. But the Buffalo school is believed to be the first facility to use the technology to identify and track children. Stillman was tipped off to RFID by the vice principal's husband, who works at a Buffalo Web design studio that is partnered with Intuitek, the company that designed the school's system. Stillman originally wanted the RFID tags sewn directly into the students' uniforms, but teachers feared that the kids might simply swap uniforms to dupe the system, so he decided to have students wear the picture tags around their necks instead. Privacy experts expressed dismay at the idea of using RFID tags on children. "I think the Buffalo experiment is getting children ready for the brave new world, where people are watched 24/7 in the name of security," said Richard Smith, an Internet privacy and security consultant. "My main concern is that once we start carrying around RFID-tagged items on our person such as access cards, cell phones, loyalty cards, clothing, etc., we can be tracked without our knowledge or permission by a network of RFID readers attached to the Internet." Lee Tien, an attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation -- who has vehemently opposed a San Francisco Public Library Commission plan to use the chips to track its inventory -- was also critical of the program. "In general, all person-location-tracking technologies raise privacy issues, from hiding beepers on people's cars or in people's clothing to video surveillance," Tien said. "Insecure location-tracking technologies raise the further question of who is tracking, as well as who has access to any tracking records kept by the system." Intuitek President David M. Straitiff said his company built privacy protections into the school's RFID system, including limiting the reading range of the kiosks to less than 20 inches and making students touch the kiosk screen instead of passively being scanned by it. He pooh-poohed the notion that the system would be abused. "(It's) the same as swiping a mag-strip card for access control, or presenting a photo ID badge to a security guard, both of which are commonplace occurrences," Straitiff said. Additionally, Stillman said that the RFID-linked databases would require separate passwords to access students' disciplinary, attendance, health, library and cafeteria records. "It's as private as anything else can be when your information is stored on a server," he said.

Re:full story (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303350)

Here:









It's whitespace. You can borrow some.

may I be first to say (1, Redundant)

SirSlud (67381) | about 11 years ago | (#7303277)

1984?

Re:may I be first to say (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303432)

How about scoring this guy 5 for "Cliche"?

Re:may I be first to say (1)

DuckDuckBOOM! (535473) | about 11 years ago | (#7303527)

1984?
Some of the stuff posted here / elsewhere lately makes the Thought Police look like amateurs. Orwell's telescreens weren't portable and GPS-enabled.

DDB (growing ever more impatient for development of the Libby-Sheffield Drive, and beginning of the Diaspora.)

1st Porst (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303280)

Bloop

And the problem is???? (2, Insightful)

mobiux (118006) | about 11 years ago | (#7303286)

Tell me why keeping track of children in a school is such bad thing?

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

I8TheWorm (645702) | about 11 years ago | (#7303301)

Because RFID gets around the aluminum foil hats.

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

ankit (70020) | about 11 years ago | (#7303324)

Precisely my reaction. Why do you want to bring up privacy into everything!!??

Re:And the problem is???? (4, Insightful)

Valdrax (32670) | about 11 years ago | (#7303327)

Because we get them used to and comfortable with the concept of the government tracking their every movement when they grow up. If we don't imbue in their mind the wrongess of this being done to them, they'll be totally prepared and calmly waiting for when the next megalomaniac in charge gets the idea to finally implement the Big Brother society that will be the end of democracy.

If you're really unlucky, you might still be alive when that happens.

Re:And the problem is???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303441)

If you think youre living in democracy, youre sadly mistaken

Re:And the problem is???? (5, Insightful)

SirSlud (67381) | about 11 years ago | (#7303342)

I guess because if you have technology that prevents you technologically from being irresponsible, you can never learn how to be responsible?

What happens when they get out? "Wicked, I'm not being tracked anymore! I can do whatever I want to do, consequence free!"

I have strong feelings about technology 'absolving' humans from learning about responsibility and accoutability, and the merits of making the right choice when you're not forced at RFID-tag-point to do so.

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

mobiux (118006) | about 11 years ago | (#7303431)

I agree that children must learn the results of choice and responsibility, but wouldn't the parents come into play in that matter.

Just because some kid wears a name tag that lets him check out books and makes sure he is in class, doesn't mean that he isn't going to learn responibility in life.

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

normal_guy (676813) | about 11 years ago | (#7303454)

I guess because if you have technology that prevents you technologically from being irresponsible, you can never learn how to be responsible?

I don't know about you, but my grammar school experience was not a time when I had great expectations and responsibility placed on me. When I graduated to high school, less oversight and more responsibility. Then the big step of moving out and having basically no oversight in college. Then the real world: relying on yourself to get yourself places on time, and even educating yourself (no more professors!)

I rely on technology daily since I'm apparently not responsible enough to remember 3pm conference calls, 9am project meetings, and 15 ongoing projects with varying degrees of involvement. I wouldn't consider that 'absolved'.

Re:And the problem is???? (3, Insightful)

Alpha_Geek (154209) | about 11 years ago | (#7303344)

Because as far as /. is concerned RFID == evil.
It doesn't matter if its used for a reasonable purpose.

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

ankit (70020) | about 11 years ago | (#7303361)

And I was under the impression RFID is a great thing! I could find the stuff I have lost more easily atleast!

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

`Sean (15328) | about 11 years ago | (#7303525)

> And I was under the impression RFID is a great thing! I could find the stuff I have lost more easily atleast!

Like your children? :)

Re:And the problem is???? (5, Insightful)

WTFmonkey (652603) | about 11 years ago | (#7303449)

You missed the boat. The bad news is that by doing this as early as elementary school, the children grow up not seeing a problem with having their every move tracked. The tracking itself isn't the problem, it's the acclimatization to and ambivilance about the tracking that is carried throughout their lives that should be worrisome.

Now, whether or not kids should be tracked is a different debate. I don't think there's any doubt that the idea is good on that level. What parent wouldn't feel more secure leaving their kids at school with this in place? Of course it's smart.

But becoming accustomed to being tracked everywhere, anytime, all the time is something that children shouldn't have to grow up blindly accepting.

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

koreth (409849) | about 11 years ago | (#7303354)

Because they're people, and have a right to some level of privacy?

If they don't, after all, why do parents give their kids bedrooms with windowless doors?

Re:And the problem is???? (1)

PhxBlue (562201) | about 11 years ago | (#7303410)

Tell me why keeping track of children in a school is such bad thing?

Tell me, when did regular attendance sheets become inadequate for this? Why does the school need to spend millions of dollars for RFID, when it's no more accurate than the old fashioned "check the box for each student that's here" method?

Re:And the problem is???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303442)

It cost less than 25,000 dollars, and is quicker than that method. More time for important things like math.

Re:And the problem is???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303434)

There were days when I just left school for whatever reason. I was tired, I was sad, I wanted to have a longer recess.

Maybe just me, but this was me making a choice... freedom. I don't like the idea of being tracked down the second your exit the building perimeter.

Re:And the problem is???? (2, Insightful)

immel (699491) | about 11 years ago | (#7303493)

It's not keeping track of them in school that's bad, it's the possibility that the children will be tracked outside of school (and they are, reference the bus transmitters) that worries people. Stalkers, drug dealers, or even worse people (RIAA/MPAA?) could potentially track them.

Mark of the Beast (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303287)

Chip implants are soon to come!

Penalty for Destruction? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303292)

What kind of penalty would be imposed for destroying or disabling these tags? They can't be that difficult to find.

Re:Penalty for Destruction? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303390)

Well, we could be one step closer to the BS premesis of "The Net." Oh no, you're not in the database! That means that I must not know who you are or why you're here!

Heh. Bureaucratic morons.

666 (1)

Rassleholic (591097) | about 11 years ago | (#7303293)

I think the Beast is on speed dial now.

Oh no... (5, Funny)

ArmenTanzarian (210418) | about 11 years ago | (#7303299)

My High School had a no hat policy, so I guess tinfoil wouldn't even be an option!

Re:Oh no... (1)

nocomment (239368) | about 11 years ago | (#7303340)

No kidding, I guess big brother isn't so advanced after all. He's almost 20 years late on this technology.

Re:Oh no... (1)

Luyseyal (3154) | about 11 years ago | (#7303363)

Ours too. What's the point of a no hat policy anyway? I can understand a "no tall hat" policy, but a ball cap pulled tightly against the scalp or turned backwards does not interfere with viewing the chalkboard anymore than a basketball player sitting in the front row (as if... but you get the idea).

-l

Re:Oh no... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303452)

"What's the point of a no hat policy anyway?"

Niggers started using them to show their gang affiliation. As usual these animals ruin it for everyone.

Re:Oh no... (1)

ArmenTanzarian (210418) | about 11 years ago | (#7303463)

We were told the point of this was "respect" to the teachers. Even stranger than that was a rival high school (buncha thugs) were told they couldn't wear hats as they could hide weapons or show gang affiliation. Apparently pants and jackets _can't_ do that. I think it's just a way of breaking your spirit.

Re:Oh no... (1)

Xzzy (111297) | about 11 years ago | (#7303510)

> What's the point of a no hat policy anyway?

Historically, it has been considered rude to wear a hat indoors. That's where it got it's start.

Schools probably make a deal out of it as an expression of control over the students, but that doesn't change that it was at one point a universally accepted convention.

Re:Oh no... (1)

Kenja (541830) | about 11 years ago | (#7303513)

Just make a tin foil Yamaka and claim your Jewish.

Not surprising: +4,000,000,000 Patriotic (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303304)


Yet another ploy of Ashcroft et al. [whitehouse.org]

Cheers,
Kilgore Trout

George H. W. Bush - Not much
George W. Bush - Even less!

Workaround: (5, Funny)

Luyseyal (3154) | about 11 years ago | (#7303306)

Workaround: "Hey Sandy, if you carry my tag to English today, I'll carry yours on Thursday."

Thus: false sense of security. :)

-l

Re:Workaround: (1)

KU_Fletch (678324) | about 11 years ago | (#7303341)

Great, now the bullies don't have to beat you up on a daily basis to steal your lunch money, they can just steal your rfid.

Re:Workaround: (1)

steelshadow (586869) | about 11 years ago | (#7303499)

So a bully wants to carry around a stolen RFID card? As soon as it gets reported he's busted.

Re:Workaround: (3, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | about 11 years ago | (#7303347)

Or what about......The dog ate my ID. Or I forgot mine today. Come on now, these are kids we are talking about. Let's be realistic.

Re:Workaround: (1)

happyfrogcow (708359) | about 11 years ago | (#7303382)

hehe. thats kind of funny, but I'm sure the teachers would still be taking attendance. It would be silly for them not to.

anyway, tracking kids in school isn't that bad really. School is mandatory if you are under 18, so why not. If the kids aren't going they're wasting taxpayers money. If they aren't going, parents should know.

however, mandatory tags shouldn't be the case. It should be the parents decision to enroll their children in such a program. Too much government mandated regulations already..

Re:Workaround: (2, Insightful)

BladeRider (24966) | about 11 years ago | (#7303389)

They'll probably require that it be implanted under the skin. You have to think of the children! :)

Re:Workaround workaround (4, Funny)

torklugnutz (212328) | about 11 years ago | (#7303440)

Simply implant the tags into student's bodies. Surround the tag with an air-sensitive, explosive capsule so counteract removal attempts.

Re:Workaround: (1)

eyeball (17206) | about 11 years ago | (#7303487)

Workaround: "Hey Sandy, if you carry my tag to English today, I'll carry yours on Thursday."

Until it becomes manditory to have RFID's embedded somewhere in out bodies (like maybe our fillings, or surgically implaneted into the back of our neck)

Maybe you can... (4, Funny)

BMonger (68213) | about 11 years ago | (#7303307)

I think that we can all stop calling the privacy advocates paranoid now.

I'm going to continue doing so until they can find an effective way to keep tabs on me...

cheat around it... (1)

tazanator (681948) | about 11 years ago | (#7303314)

Well now the poor kid that gets told to do the homework or get a beating for the bullies will have 50- 100 of these RFID tags so it looks like everyone is in class.

Re:cheat around it... (1)

Valdrax (32670) | about 11 years ago | (#7303355)

It's gonna be real funny when the principal sees 50 kids all go to the same stall, though.

Re:cheat around it... (1)

tazanator (681948) | about 11 years ago | (#7303425)

well it would tip him off to a serious smoking problem :)

Security, indeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303315)

This is total insanity ...
There's gotta be a law somewhere against this... honestly, such a blatant violation of one's privacy. Think of all the hoops people in the medical professions must go through, and these people just go ahead and turn people into numbers...

Re:Security, indeed (1)

mcrbids (148650) | about 11 years ago | (#7303439)

This is total insanity ... such a blatant violation of one's privacy.

Really? How? Oh, you mean, the teachers will know if you are in class? Like, if they had a list of kids in the class and at the beginning of the class they checked to make sure what students are there?

OMG! They're going to KNOW what students are in class that day! EVERYBODY RUN AND GET YOUR TIN FOIL HATS!!!

For some real eye-openers, read some of the opinions of people in the early 20th century when the telephone was first invading the average living room - you'd be amazed at how many people felt this was an intolerable invasion of their privacy!

Can you imagine how they'd feel about caller id? Being able to go to google, type in that phone number and get immediate driving directions to their house? Don't believe me? Here are driving directions to my bank [google.com] .

When given the choice between power and privacy, people will almost always choose power.

just leave the rfid tag in your desk. (1, Funny)

abstrakts (610619) | about 11 years ago | (#7303318)

where's my perfect attendence award?

Not the eyes (4, Funny)

SpiffyMarc (590301) | about 11 years ago | (#7303322)

Minority Report was wrong... they don't track you by scanning your eyes!

I can't wait to walk into the GAP, so they can read my RFID tag and announce to everybody around that I recently purchased an unusually large amount of womens' underwear.

Re:Not the eyes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303477)

They'll actually be able to tell that without RFID. The top of your thong peeks out when you lift your arms.

Misleading story (both wired and slashdot) (2, Interesting)

ivan256 (17499) | about 11 years ago | (#7303328)

These are not the same tags they are proposing for inventory control in retail outlets dispite what both the Wired article and the slashdot submitter imply. These are designed to be read from a longer distance and used specifically to track people. You can still call anti inventory control RFID privacy nuts 'paranoid'.

Re:Misleading story (both wired and slashdot) (4, Informative)

helix400 (558178) | about 11 years ago | (#7303417)

Deep down near the end of the article, you see this:

"Intuitek President David M. Straitiff said his company built privacy protections into the school's RFID system, including limiting the reading range of the kiosks to less than 20 inches and making students touch the kiosk screen instead of passively being scanned by it. He pooh-poohed the notion that the system would be abused.

(It's) the same as swiping a mag-strip card for access control, or presenting a photo ID badge to a security guard, both of which are commonplace occurrences," Straitiff said."

Kinda takes the steam out of the story. Since whoever wrote this story left out or hid gigantic facts, I'm going to continue to call many privacy activists paranoid.

Re:Misleading story (both wired and slashdot) (1)

KU_Fletch (678324) | about 11 years ago | (#7303482)

These are not the same tags they are proposing for inventory control in retail outlets dispite what both the Wired article and the slashdot submitter imply. These are designed to be read from a longer distance and used specifically to track people.

Oh, well as long as they are only used to track peoplee from long distances... that's fine.

Next: the workplace (3, Insightful)

YllabianBitPipe (647462) | about 11 years ago | (#7303329)

You just know in a few months, some corporation is going to announce RFID tags for their employees. Heck, some companies already monitor email, webuse, they have cameras all over, they check when you come in if you have a door ID card. So they'll stick RFID tags in your badge and tell you to wear it at all times. And since people are so afraid of getting laid off, now's a perfect time to impliment such orwellian schemes.

Re:Next: the workplace (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303396)

There are already companies that make employees carry various kinds of tracking devices inside buildings or GPS's outside.

School budgets? (5, Insightful)

cubicledrone (681598) | about 11 years ago | (#7303338)

Isn't it amazing that schools always seem to have money for this crap and yet cannot seem to educate literate graduates or provide pencils, books and paper for their students?

They've got endless budgets for in-classroom cameras, RFID name badges and seminars about file-sharing but never enough for field trips, athletic equipment or buses.

It just never seems to improve.

Re:School budgets? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303490)

Look, not everyone can be as smart as you. If you came out of the public school system, then you're probably a testement to the fact that it isn't all that bad. I know I certainly am.

Re:School budgets? (1)

cgranade (702534) | about 11 years ago | (#7303514)

Moreover, they can afford "Starving Artist"...

Needs some improvements (5, Funny)

Hayzeus (596826) | about 11 years ago | (#7303339)

The real problem with this technology is that it's only one-way. Once these devices can be implanted directly into the skulls of students, We will se a number of benefits.

For example, we could remotely help them with their homework, automatically remove them from dangerous situations, make them do funny dances and speak with foreign accents, as well as invade neighboring countries, all with the push of a button.

Here's to the future.

Re:Needs some improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303406)

Totally different...that'd be more like The Visitors doing an anal probe on Cartman.

How does this violate a right? (4, Interesting)

JUSTONEMORELATTE (584508) | about 11 years ago | (#7303353)

How exactly does this take away from the child's freedom again?
They are still free to choose attendance or ditching. They are still free to choose to return library books on time or keep them past the due date.
Their choices have consequences, and this technology will make sure those consequences are dealt as impersonally as a photo-radar speed trap, but I can't really see where anyone's civil rights are being violated.
I'm pretty far left-of-center, and I think this illustrates a much bigger problem of breakdown in trusting relationships between parents, teachers and kids, but could someone explain this one to me please?

--

Re:How does this violate a right? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303450)

It really depends on wether you believe that a 'Right to Privacy' stands on it's own as an important civil right. Many people do, and recording individual student movements throughout the day would seem to fly in the face of that. It isn't the principal's business if I meet with the guidance counselor privately, for example. Or if I visit the Gay and Lesbian students club meeting before leaving the building...

The violated right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303496)

The right to be a human, not a computer peripheral.

As a parent... (1)

MoxCamel (20484) | about 11 years ago | (#7303357)

I don't have a *big* problem with this. If someone were to abduct a child from a playground, it would be extremely useful for a system to notice that a student has left the premisis. Maybe it even auto-calls the police.

Now if this were to find it's way into the workplace, that would suck. But not all monitoring technology is a bad thing.

Re:As a parent... (1)

Deaper (659229) | about 11 years ago | (#7303444)

Not exactly... Each student has the RFID tag implemented in their student ID card that they have to wear around their neck so if the student is abducted from the playground all that would need to be done is to remove the id card from around their neck. Plus they claim that the chips can only be read from about 20 inches away from the reader anyways. There are simply no benefits to this invasion of privacy.

Re:As a parent... (1)

nmos (25822) | about 11 years ago | (#7303451)

Now if this were to find it's way into the workplace, that would suck. But not all monitoring technology is a bad thing.

Right, so long as it's being done to someone else it's OK. When will people realize that if you won't defend other peoples rights noone will defend yours?

Pink says: (1, Funny)

bcolflesh (710514) | about 11 years ago | (#7303362)

No radio frequencies in the classroom - Teacher, leave those RFID tags alone All in all, it's just another kick in privacy's balls... - If you don't have your tag, you can't get any pudding!

no need for excuses anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303365)

hey jon i dont feel like going to school today can u please take my id so I dont need to get a fake physicians certificate

Revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303367)

Architect:

This must be a glitch in the matrix and should be fixed immediately. The humans are becoming aware of our control on them. At least they think it's only for observation.

I'll see if I can pay a visit to Ellison at Oracle in case he's the one leaking this information.

P.S. -- that Anderson kid's getting on my nerves.

-- Smith

Paranoid you say? Paranoid like a fox! (5, Insightful)

kid zeus (563146) | about 11 years ago | (#7303368)

Sweet Zombie Jesus, this is terrifying. Kids growing up in a world where their every move is in effect monitored, as are all objects around them. If you're old enough to know better, you can at least fight the concept. But to grow up in the middle of it as if it were natural... disgusting. We're going to be raising children who are either soulless or, in the case of those who can't deal with it, psychotic. What a truly hateful development. Somewhere Huxley and Orwell are weeping. And yes, I'm aware Orwell wasn't trying to predict the future but was in fact commenting on totalitarian regimes in his lifetime. He's still weeping.

Couple this with zero-tolerance policies (4, Insightful)

pmz (462998) | about 11 years ago | (#7303371)


and our kids are totally fucked. I predict an entire generation of useless paranoid humans who can't bear any responsibility, because of their paralyzing fear of irrational and inequitable punishment.

Even without these tags, I remember the animosity generated among kids when someone gets away with something (beats the system) while other kids get caught red-handed (brought a Swiss army knife to school, because, well, it's useful for stuff).

spoof! (1)

grocer (718489) | about 11 years ago | (#7303374)

RFID = compliant IEEE standard = MAC Address?

Even if there isn't a MAC Address, it must use some kind of base station that receives packets...DoS anyone? (Probably have to build a radio, tho)

children != cattle (1)

morelife (213920) | about 11 years ago | (#7303377)

No child of mine will be tagged or branded. Is this school or a concentration camp??

children == cattle (2, Interesting)

n1ywb (555767) | about 11 years ago | (#7303519)

Wake up, public school is all about treating children like cattle. Thats why I hate it so much. Dropping out of high school was the best choice I ever made, it was MY choice to exercise MY rights and to proclaim MY freedom from a tyranical overloard, my fat bull-dyke principal (that's not an exageration, she really is a fat bull-dyke). If you disagree, you can bring it up with my bachelors degree and my honors.

Homeschool your kids. Or group homeschool them. Or something. Don't send them to McSchool.

turnabout (2, Insightful)

Tumbleweed (3706) | about 11 years ago | (#7303379)

Okay, but will the principal & the teachers have RFID tags to track their attendance, too? And perhaps GPS systems tracking their cars to make sure they're not speeding to work in the morning? And Internet filters on their computers? And let's check the length of the male teacher's hair to make sure it's not too long, and the length of the female teacher's skirts, to make sure they're not too short, and oh yeah, let's have them blow into a breathalyzer each morning before they're allowed to enter the school, and by the way, the "Civil Liberties" class has been cancelled due to obsolescence. We've put the "Don't Be a Pirate" class in its place.

</rant>

Re:turnabout (1)

cubicledrone (681598) | about 11 years ago | (#7303494)

and by the way, the "Civil Liberties" class has been cancelled due to obsolescence.

Along with the Civics and History classes.

yabb! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303391)

they should put RFID tags on those chatty secrataries, I mean, administrative assistants instead, after all they're the one's demanding outragous salaries!

Good (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303404)

Children NEED to be watched, like you should have been when you were younger, you fucking nerds.

Just you wait.... (1)

carterhawk001 (681941) | about 11 years ago | (#7303409)

Its only a matter of time until some parent decides to sue the school over the 'health risks' of RF radiation. ?Deja Vu? [slashdot.org]

Pedophile's Dream (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303415)

Pedophile's dream. Now a pedophile can just: get a job in a school that has these things, plus cameras, working in the central monitoring office.

Then he watches. He chooses a student he likes, and then the RFID tags tell him which cameras to monitor, when. After all, disk space is limited, and he needs to know how to set up his scripts to capture the right stuff. He can now make a nice archive of shots of his favorites, and squirrel them away for whatever.

Oh, you say you have nothing to hide? Please post your mother's maiden name, and the names, photos, social security numbers, phone numbers, birth dates, school records, and addresses of each of your family members.

if parents consent.... (1)

smd4985 (203677) | about 11 years ago | (#7303421)

kids really can't object. if this tracking is up to the consent of the kid's parents, kids may not have much choice in the matter.

not a bad idea (1)

andih8u (639841) | about 11 years ago | (#7303437)

I don't see anything terribly wrong with helping the teachers keep track of kids. Imagine a few hundred kids on a field trip to a museum. It'd be a lot easier and safer if the kids were all tagged so if they went out of a certain perimeter the chaperones could go find them right away. There also wouldn't be the problem of continuous head counts or leaving someone behind. Tagging kids is a bit weird, but the world's gotten more than a bit weird. Parents are lojacking their children now, after all. RFID tagging older kids seems a bit pointless though.

If this becomes widespread (1)

PhilipPeake (711883) | about 11 years ago | (#7303467)

the temptation to build/deploy jamming system will become overwheling. The RF output from these devices is miniscule. Jamming would be so easy.

So if Walgreens grinds to a halt because none of their products responds to the RFID scanners any more, does this classify as terrorism ?

RFID Unit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7303480)

I would recommend that we put the unit back in operation, and let it fail.

This sounds pretty good to me (1)

g051051 (71145) | about 11 years ago | (#7303486)

I don't think there is any privacy issue in a school context. A student should expect to be under constant surveillance while at school, and careful monitoring of students, their activities, and school resources will result in safer schools and better education.

However, please note that this policy doesn't invade the personal privacy of students: they aren't being required to submit to searches, give up personal expression, etc. This is merely a measure to monitor compliance with existing school policies.

My only concern would be if the tags were abused, or subverted by the students.

Ok, and how (1)

EFGearman (245715) | about 11 years ago | (#7303495)

does this prevent someone from just carrying someone else's ID in their pocket? I mean, if my high school did this waaaaay back when I went there, I could have made some serious coin just carrying around some IDs.

This doesn't help if the teachers aren't making sure the students are actually there. And it sure as hell doesn't help them learn.

It's not as bad as you think (1)

jdhutchins (559010) | about 11 years ago | (#7303500)

The kids are wearing these on a name badge around their neck, so it's not getting implanted into their skin. That's the bood part.

It's still not good. Its potential for abuse, from BOTH sides, is tremendous. There's bound to be lots of problems with implementation, and people can discreetly carry around other's badges for them.

Technology is schools is way over-hyped.

How long until some sicko... (1)

indros13 (531405) | about 11 years ago | (#7303507)

...child molester gets himself a radio transmitter and tracker so he can easily find isolated prey...

This message brought to you by Extreme Outcome Predictors of America...

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