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LG CD-ROMs Destroyed by Mandrake 9.2

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the whoopsie dept.

Mandriva 685

An anonymous reader writes "The latest offering of Mandrake's distribution, 9.2, has been found to not only be incompatible with some LG CD-ROM drives, but to destroy them during the installation process. Mandrake have posted information on their errata page and further information can be found on this thread [google]. Along with over 350Mb of updates within a week of release, it's not been a good start for this latest release."

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Quick... (5, Funny)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309927)

Someone find a 1st level Cleric so they can cast Protection from Evil on these Lawful Good CD-ROMs. That should keep the evil Mandrakes from destroying them.

At least they should get a freakin' saving throw. What a harsh DM.

Re:Quick... (1)

Gojira Shipi-Taro (465802) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309953)

Best non-sequitir I've read in a long time. You're either a brilliant comic, deeply disturbed, or quite possibly both. Cheers!

Re:Quick... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309959)

Bah. Your 1st level neophyte Cleric's spell would last about as long as an ear bitten by Mike Tyson against the Evil Lord Mandrake.

This "Mandrake" has_got_to_be at least on the order of Sauron himself by the evil sound of his name...

MAUHAWAWAWAW!!!

Re:Quick... (1)

revmoo (652952) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309966)

Wow, I don't know whether to laugh or go take a shower after reading that :-)

Re:Quick... (3, Funny)

daeley (126313) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310054)

So do they wind up getting XP if they fail the saving throw? ;)

Re:Quick... (0, Offtopic)

Exatron (124633) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310083)

I'm a 10th level vice president.

"I feel raped." (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309931)

Indeed.

Re:"I feel raped." (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309974)

Me too. I am in an American prison though, which does explain a quite bit of my other problems too, including this sharpened plastic fork embedded in my crotch.

Well... (2, Funny)

13Echo (209846) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309942)

Perhaps the drives don't truly conform to ATAPI standards. This is probably the first drive ever that has been "damaged" by Linux. Sorry, LG, you probably should test these things.

Re:Well... (5, Insightful)

sketerpot (454020) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309970)

Yes, if the drive as actually destroyed then it's the drive maker's fault. No data should be able to harm a CD-ROM drive. I think that LG should be getting busy soon with making sure this doesn't happen in the future.

As for Mandrake, I'm sure that the updates are a good thing, unless they're stupid bugs that should have been fixed before release.

Re:Well... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309981)

Yes how silly of LG not to test with a version of an operating system which hadn't been released when they made the drives.

How exactly can this me LG's fault if mandrake is the ONLY distro that does this and it ONLY started doing it with this version.

Re:Well... (1)

addaon (41825) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310028)

No matter what I do, I should never be able to get the US to launch a nuclear strike. It doesn't matter what action I'm contemplating; my actions should be entirely disassociated from that destructive event. Similarly, there is no way that data sent to a device (as opposed to illegal, non-data signals sent on the same lines) should ever cause the device to permanently malfunction. The data is simply a customer of the device; the device should not cause destruction based on the advice of a non-trusted user. It can go fuck the user's data up (and the gov't can go put me back in my little box)... but damage to anyone or anything else should simply not happen.

Re:Well... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310046)

Actually, pretty much any IDE device could be destroyed by a hostile driver. There was some discussion about this on the Linux-Kernel list about a year ago.

Solution: Don't buy IDE.

Re:Well... (1)

jm.one (655706) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310071)

i guess now i know why SCSI is so popular for mission-critical systems...

Re:Well... (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310104)

Hmm.. LG is a el cheapo brand in many cases, so I'm not really surprised by these news. :-P

A drive shouldn't be physically destroyed by a logical error on a CD. Ever... Regardless what.

Ouch. (1)

chill (34294) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309948)

Exactly how does reading from a CD-ROM drive destroy the drive? Does it have to do with UDMA or what?

I haven't had software destroy hardware since a Commodore PET.

Re:Ouch. (1)

xaoslaad (590527) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309982)

apparently not even reading from the CD. The article says doing a network install does the same thing...

Re:Ouch. (1)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309990)

Oh, the old Pet. I remember that--a single POKE statement, and the thing would enter a single-instruction loop until the processor melted.

Classic computers. They don't build 'em like that anymore.

Re:Ouch. (2, Interesting)

XO (250276) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310023)

Actually, the POKE would change the power supply voltages, thereby smoking the whole thing...

Re:Ouch. For Extra Geek Points (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310063)

Commodore PET

And for extra points, what first poster can say exactly what PET stands for?

Re:Ouch. For Extra Geek Points (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310079)

Considering you could change PSU voltages to dangerous levels and melt the CPU and such, (see other reply's to grandparent post), I'd say it stands for...

Pretty Easily Torchable!

*rimshot*

Re:Ouch. For Extra Geek Points (1)

xluap (652530) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310095)

PET = Personal Electronic Transactor, if i remember correctly

Re:Ouch. For Extra Geek Points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310100)

PET == Psychiatric Emergency Team

Re:Ouch. For Extra Geek Points (1)

AJWM (19027) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310110)

PET - Personal Electronic Transactor.

Hence the name of the (long gone) magazine for Commodore owners, The Transactor.

My wife's dad had one, complete with small keyboard and built-in cassette tape drive.

Is this Mandrake-specific? (1, Insightful)

Beg4Mercy (32808) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309949)

Is it Mandrake specifically or any GNU/Linux distribution that damages these drives?

If you're a hardware manufacturer... (5, Insightful)

defile (1059) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309950)

...and software is capable of destroying your products, you're fucking fired.

Re:If you're a hardware manufacturer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309971)

It's the frog revenge........the revenge of the "cheese eating surrender monkeys"!

Re:If you're a hardware manufacturer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309996)

If you're a software manufacturer and your product is capable of destroying hardware, you're just as fired.

Re:If you're a hardware manufacturer... (5, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310022)

No, if you're a software manufacturer and can actually write software that destroys perfectly normal hardware you have a pretty sweet employment deal waiting for you at the RIAA.

KFG

Re:If you're a hardware manufacturer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310031)

Glad to hear it. Next time a Windows worm that only affects unpatched systems (like, oh, almost all of them) makes the rounds, we can count on you to help stick up for them to the /. crowd. ;)

MOD THIS UP!!! I'M FEELING INSIGHTFUL. (5, Insightful)

fmaxwell (249001) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310066)

If you're a hardware manufacturer...and software is capable of destroying your products, you're fucking fired.

So how do you propose putting firmware updates into CD-ROM drives, DVD drives, modems, etc.? Just about any peripheral which has flashable firmware can be rendered unusable by software.

What about.... (2, Interesting)

jdhutchins (559010) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309955)

Other linux distros? I'm sure if this was a real CD drive problem, it would show up on other distros, or is the Mandrake CD the only one expecting the CD-ROM drive to work?

I'll be that the LG CD-ROM is a WinCDROM, kinda like some modems are WinModems. Mabye the drive knows how to get boot info off of the cd, but nothing else. It may rely on a windows driver to do its work for it. If it is a WinCDROM, what does that mean for other hardware? Are we now going to see WinHardDrives? This could cause a major problem in the desktop linux world.

I haven't a clue if this is right; it could be a start, but probably isn't.

Re:What about.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310020)

if this turns out to be true, that hardware manufacturers such as harddrives and CDrom drives making their products tied in to Windows i am going to see to it that a Linux blacklist is created...

Re:What about.... (4, Informative)

Croaker (10633) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310053)

Well, after RTFT, I came across this:

...But yes, it is LG's fault. The current news is that it was triggered by the
addition of packet-writing code to the 2.4.22-rc2q5 kernel on Aug. 15, no news on how that determination was made. One must suspect that querying the drive for the format of the disk or its capabilities somehow triggers a firmware self-destruct bug in the CRD-84xx models.

So, I guess if you tend to use bleeding edge kernels, beware. Mandrake sometime tosses in non-"Linus blessed" things, I believe, so this might have been something you'd only get if you went looking for it.

I've installed 9.2, and it's been a mess. The missing kernel source package in the download version ws a major pain in the ass. Since I'm a silver Mandrake Club member, I was able to get the PowerPack edition as a download as well, but that kept messing up when trying to install. The checksums all checked out, so I have no clue why I got the various problems I did. I've finally gotten it stable, and able to do a few things I haven't been able to get working in the past, like DVD viewing (no, not through the stock Mandrake stuff... only through additional non-Mandrake packages).

Sad to say, Mandrake messed up this release big time. It just wasn't soup yet. It's really too bad, since I've had pretty good luck with them in the past.

Don't let Microsoft see the code! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309956)

They'll want it for all their install CD-ROMs.

To LG (3, Insightful)

Unominous Coward (651680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309958)

Do you think there might be a problem with your hardware if it can be destroyed solely with software?

I hope Mandrake gets sued (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310040)

class-action style. Good riddance.

Re:To LG (1, Insightful)

n3rd (111397) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310072)

Do you think there might be a problem with your hardware if it can be destroyed solely with software?

Probably not.

I can tell my monitor to use a refresh rate that will physically damage it. I can tell my hard drive to move it's heads off the platter to find cylinders that don't exist. I can overclock various parts of my computer until they start smoking.

Although there may be a problem with the hardware, software certainly can be used to destry many types of hardware.

Re:To LG (5, Insightful)

Liselle (684663) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310101)

If I try to tell my monitor to use a refresh rate that will damage it, it will tell me to screw off. My P4 will start to slow down, automatically, if it starts getting too hot, in order to keep it from burning out. Hardware suicide is more or less a thing of the past for a large portion of things.

I would consider it poor design on the part of the hardware manufacturer is something silly could burn it out. Are you telling me the next SoBig virus is going to make everyone's monitors explode?

Re:To LG (1)

jm.one (655706) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310107)

I`m just wondering when there will by a virus that gets as widespread as Blaster did and is writen to damage hardware instead of just reboot or install a trojan horse. You think you`ve seen people getting angry because of a computer-virus by now? You haven`t seen anything compared to what you would see...

Damaged? How? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309960)

How can they be damaged permanently ? UNless you blow a non-reloadable firmware.. i find it hard to belive you can really damage hardware..

Re:Damaged? How? (1)

thorgil (455385) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310060)

running the head to far in one direction?

hrm... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309961)

fuck you.

Rush to Market? (1)

diakka (2281) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309963)

Could these things be a result of trying to beat Fedora to market?

hmmm.. problem must be mandrake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309965)


mandrake must be the problem..

My LG CDRW 52/24/52 (HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8520B) works fine under LFS-3.0 with 2.6.0-test4 kernel...
(worked with 2.4 kernels also)

whoopsie?? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309968)

wow, just imagine if microsoft (M$ to you slashbots) had done this. The editors would be up in arms screaming at the top of their lungs how evil MS is.

But when it's open source like this or the problems slashdot is having, it's "oops", and "oh well".

Just another slashdot double standard for you.

Re:whoopsie?? (1)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310056)

The difference is that Mandrake 9.2 is free, whereas Windows XP Pro is $450 CAD. Imagine paying all that cash for XP Pro and then having it toast your CD-ROM...

Re:whoopsie?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310085)

I don't care if it's free or if it costs 1 million dollars. Software should not break hardware. Of course, we all know what anything 'Linux' can do no wrong. Bwahahaha

Re:whoopsie?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310069)

The customers *are* screaming. But Mandrake is frankly a rather un-used distribution, considerably smaller than RedHat or Debian or even TurboLinux.

If *RedHat* did this, we'd scream like banshees.

Re:whoopsie?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310090)

Actually, I imagine people would be saying the same damn things.. Like "Wow, MS may suck, but the only person that sucks more is the hardware maker that builds hardware that can be fried from the software"

Yay for moderation! Automod up anyone that is 'rebellious' or something..

Well, that sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309969)

Nuttin' like the smell of dead CD-ROM drives in the morning.

LG drives (3, Informative)

mrsev (664367) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309973)

I know quite a few people who have had big problems with LG drives. I think that they are very unreliable anyway. Lots of people I know also have LG burners that mess up cds when burning. Stay away. Anybody else know people with faulty drives?

Re:LG drives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310002)

I do know that I have an LG CD-RW (52/24/52) that was very cheap..but I wish I hadn't bought it. It's turned out about 1 bad CD for every three or four, at just about any speed that I've tried with it. I've had to use a 64MB memory buffer with cdrecord just to bring that number down to a reasonable level.

Re:LG drives (1)

Cuthalion (65550) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310009)

Try upgrading the firmware. I know for a fact that the LG GCE-8160b has had some really lousy firmware versions.

Re:LG drives (3, Informative)

ponzo (719063) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310062)

I work in a retail store and we sell at least 100 LG burners and 150 LG cd-roms every week and we probably get 1 or 2 returns a month. I really can't say anything bad about them.

Re:LG drives (1)

Cha$e (49107) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310111)

I have an LG drive that fried last month. I put in a CD-ROM of The Rosetta Stone's teach yourself Hindi program, and the machine shut down. Power button did nothing - have to turn off the switch in the back, wait 15 seconds, turn the switch back on, and then hit the power button. Now, if I put any CD in the drive, the machine immediately powers down. I would think it a driver issue, except that if I turn the machine on with a CD in the drive, it powers itself down while still in the BIOS stage of the boot. Anybody else hear of anything like this?
PS This is on my Win2k box, not my RH8 box.

Bad news for Mandrakesoft, worse for LG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309975)

At this point, please do not install Mandrake Linux 9.2 on any computer containing a LG-based CD-ROM drive or it will damage your CD-ROM drive!

That's bad news for Mandrakesoft, LG provides OEM drives to Dell and many other bigtime manufacturers, But you can't really blame them. It's the dumb manufacturers that build hardware that can easily be rendered useless by software...

Re:Bad news for Mandrakesoft, worse for LG (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310033)

That's bad news for Mandrakesoft, LG provides OEM drives to Dell and many other bigtime manufacturers, But you can't really blame them....

I didn't attach blame to Mandrake, until I read your comment. Whilst it defies belief that LG are capable of building a drive that can be destroyed by software, it equally beggars belief that someone can try to release a commercial x86 operating system without testing on the major assembler - Dell.

Cheers,
Ian

Hey it's linux it's ok right? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309978)

If Microsoft released something like this there would be 900 posts here bashing them. Something tells me this will get overlooked and will be forgiven pretty quickly. Hey after all, it's linux right?

Sometimes the tunnel vision here gets tiresome. I am by no means pro ms but being a zealot for either side is short sighted.

Don't tell Mr. Sherman... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7309984)

Just don't let the RIAA get hold of this technology!

Contrasting Slashdot responses (-1, Redundant)

alex_ant (535895) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309985)

Microsoft destroys CD-ROM (hypothetically): More proof that M$ is an evil moneygrubbing capitalist pig corporation.

Linux destroys CD-ROM: It's the CD-ROM's fault.

nothing to do with the media/image (1)

unborracho (108756) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309989)

It can't possibly be a problem with the cd-image or the boot media... quoted from the issues page:
Damage occurs even when doing a network install.
I don't think i've ever heard of anything like this happening in my life

Whoops! (1)

br4dh4x0r (137273) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309994)

What are the chances that LG will pony up replacements for the broken drives?

I'd say zero... until enough people flip out on Dell. Maybe then...

Re:Whoops! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310030)

Depends on which country you live in..
if it's a construction flaw then LG may be forced to fix or replace the drive.
In nice Sweden an some other european countries at least.

Re:Whoops! (1)

ponzo (719063) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310088)

True. In Canada and the US LG usually offers 1 year warranty on the burners and the cd-roms so if you are in the one year period you can go back to the place you bought it and get it replaced or at least they will send it back to LG for you.

Shhh.... (0, Flamebait)

kosmosik (654958) | more than 10 years ago | (#7309995)

Do not tell Steevie(B@m$ft.org) 'bout it.

trop du vin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310000)

Sober up, Mandrake froggys.

This seems to be a recurring mandrake problem. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310004)

Anyone else had their systems destroyed by DiskDrake?

Some number of years ago there was one version of Mandrake that came with a free copy of partitionmagic in the box. However, the box implied that it was part of the installation process. In fact you had to do something funky involving poking around on CD 3 in the box.

When installing normally, it brought up DiskDrake, which unlike many programs of its type-- for example, fdisk-- does not make it clear when writing parition tables "I AM REFORMATTING YOUR DISK WITH WHATEVER'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW". The "ok, writing parittions now" dialogue was unclear even more so. It was very easy to fall into DiskDrake during the installation and think that it was PartitionMagic.

My GF accidentally had her windows system trashed when attempting to install linux out of curiousity. She is now soured to linux forever and refuses to touch it, since it's the thing that ate her hard drive. I can't blame her, as at one point I fell victim to the same thing and had a machine at a place where i was working at the time's hard drive get wiped because I did not realize I had just okayed the overwriting of the partition table.

Now, given, had this happened in the installation of, say, Gentoo or something, I would have been like, okay, so a mistake was made in installing an infamously techie-specific distro. Should have known this was expert stuff and been more careful. But this was MANDRAKE. It was supposed to be the "luser-friendly" distro. How can the "luser-friendly" distro be so idiot-unfriendly when doing THE MOST DANGEROUS PART OF THE ENTIRE INSTALL PROCESS?

Needless to say, I haven't been happy with Mandrake since this point.

Not just Mandrake. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310006)

I have a G3 500 Mhz imac that got its CD-RW fried when installing panther tonight!

Linux bias (-1, Troll)

siphoncolder (533004) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310007)

Check out some of the posts, and find this sentiment:

"Not Linux! It must be the drive!"

Open-source software makes things better, eh?

This, coupled with the 350MB of updates Mandrake has already released doesn't fill me with confidence concerning the "superiority" of the Open Source software business model, guys. Try again.

Re:Linux bias (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310038)

Mandrake I have to agree with. They are sooo cutting edge. Debian and FreeBSD are another story.

Re:Linux bias (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310043)

Don't say the Open Source software business model is bad just because of one wack distro.

There are dozens of other distro's that don't fry cdroms.

Re:Linux bias (1)

unborracho (108756) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310061)

Microsoft releases service packs regularly for Windows that are at least 350mb in size... usually bigger. There is clearly something wrong with the LG drives if they are able to be destroyed by software. How on earth you implied linux destroys hardware, I will never know. The only relevant observation i see here is that software destroyed the drive.. not linux. It could have easily been a flaw in Windows that did this.

Re:Linux bias (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310064)

Nice Microsoft trolls going around these boards nowadays.

I think we all know the bottom score so far, hundreds of billions of dollars and euros lost because of blasters, email worms et al'.

Not to mention all the bugs, problems, incompatibilities that are inherit with Windows. How many hundreds of billions have been lost in the last 20 years because of that?

"Oh well, I'll just keep paying 150? for each upgrade to my buggy Windows, because it makes life worth living."

Re:Linux bias (5, Insightful)

addaon (41825) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310074)

Dude, software should never be able to damage hardware. Not in 2003. Part of this is just common sense -- how could anyone design hardware that bad? But beyond that, it is only a matter of time before someone writes a virus that includes this cute little effect. It is no longer possible to blow up a CRT by giving it an out-of-range signal, or to call halt-and-catch-fire, or to blow up your car's engine by overreving it (assume you haven't screwed with the rev limiter). It is not okay for normal usage to damage hardware, and in the computer world 'normal usage' means any data at all, even malicious or (in the case of Mandrake, it seems) really bad data.

Re:Linux bias (1)

Liselle (684663) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310077)

This, coupled with the 350MB of updates Mandrake has already released doesn't fill me with confidence concerning the "superiority" of the Open Source software business model, guys.

Pardon me for being picky, but what on earth does releasing updates and a business model have in common? A business model is how they plan to make money. Does Mandrake get a wad of cash every time they release an update?

Re:Linux bias (1)

defile (1059) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310093)

"Not Linux! It must be the drive!"

Software should never be able to destroy hardware. Whether you're using Windows, Mac, Linux, or IraqOS.

LG was obviously trying to get costs down (think about how cheap CD-ROM drives are nowadays) and "sanify control commands" was one of the line items that was cut.

More Information (4, Informative)

heli0 (659560) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310011)

People started noting this a week ago:

9.2 FRIED my CDROM drives [mandrakeclub.com]

the culprit (5, Informative)

spoonist (32012) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310013)

appears to be a kernel patch

I found this post [google.com] .

Nobody really knows what the problem is at this point, but yes, it is the case that ANY hardware that can be put out of commission by software is at fault, morally. The latest from the cooker list is that the problem seems to affect LG cdroms (not burners, not dvds) with the model number CRD-84xx, and that it seems to have been triggered by a patch for packet-writing added to the 2.4.22-rc2q5 kernel on Aug 15.

Warranty (1)

nuggz (69912) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310017)

Wait till someone writes a virus.
Actual hardware damage will be fun.

Does using Linux void warranties now?

Eh... killed by the bell? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310026)

I am not going to say that Mandrake should have tested their product... oh... I already said that. But I think that any hardware that can be killed by software should be killed.

Further information... (1)

Zocalo (252965) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310032)

Interesting choice of post to jump into the middle of the thread on, would that be a hint by any chance? If so, foolish, foolish thing to do; there are a lot of people capable of doing that that read Slashdot and one of them is almost certainly going to write the thing. I can only hope that they don't get caught, because if found guilty they are going to get one *hell* of a sentence for making a rash decision.

./ fails 'stuff that matters' slowgun again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310036)

as 1000's, if not 10's/100's of 1000's of folks are quietly marching about capitollist hill, SF, & several other locations today. not a word about it here? what is it they want?

if it were a penguin parade, a felonious FUDgePackers' bawl, or some bad news about won of va lairIE's phonIE payper liesense stock markup FraUD '.contemporarIEs', robbIE'd be on it up to his mortgaged .asp?

/. not reporting on stuff that really matters? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310086)

they don't do that, except in the cases specified buy their ?pr? ?firm? scriptdead corepirate sponsors.

marching? is there a band? some kind of product giveaway?

Code? (1)

addaon (41825) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310044)

Can someone point to the offending code in the install program? I'd like to whip together a quick Windows 95/98 program to produce the same effect. Then anyone who thinks this situation is outrageous (hardware being damaged by software? in 2003?), and who has a dell machine under warrantee, can run the program and give Dell, the angry giant, a bit of incentive to motivate LG.

Funny (1, Insightful)

friday2k (205692) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310047)

If Windows would do this to your drive there would be a public outcry. Here on /. it is more like "ah well, shit happens, it's mentioned in the errata so suck it up and get over it".

Re:Funny (5, Informative)

dissy (172727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310108)

> If Windows would do this to your drive there would be a public outcry. Here on
> /. it is more like "ah well, shit happens, it's mentioned in the errata so suck
> it up and get over it".

But windows could do this. All it would have to do is send one of the two normal APATI commands to this cdrom drive, and it will fry just the same.

LG stated the bug is in their cdrom drive, and one of two commands sent to it will execute the buggy routine in firmware, causing it to dump its firmware totally.
They cant be fixed because to flash firmware, you have to use a program that is in the firmware in the first place.

What really happened as far as I understand it now (2, Informative)

Foske (144771) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310048)

The kernel Mandrake uses enables a feature on CDROM drives. This kernel feature is officially not production stable yet, so other distro's don't use it YET. LG drives with buggy firmware die if this feature is enabled. LG doesn't support Linux, so this problem doesn't exist in their eyes.

Conclusion: It will happen to ANY distribution that uses kernels with this enabled. Mandrake unfortunately hit the trigger first in an attempt to have a slightly too cool kernel.

Problem on other distros too... (4, Informative)

AELinuxGuy (588522) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310050)

I've had this exact problem with the Cool Linux CD: http://emergencycd2.sourceforge.net/ This article just confirms the problem. I was using a Dell OptiPlex GX1 and the system would just halt on boot. Then on reboot the drive was no longer detected. The drive would not even respond to an eject - I had to do it manually to get my CD back. Unfortunately, I assumed that a CD-ROM could not be damaged by software and that this drive just happened to fail as I was booting...so I tried it on another system! Now I've got two dead CD-ROM drives waiting to be returned to Dell. Now time to play stupid about why the drives failed to get an RMA!

SuSE too. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310058)

I had an old 48X LG-CDROM that got fried by SuSE 8.0. I also heard that my freind had his monitor destroyed by Debian (due to the buggy Xfree86 3.3.7.debian).

Obligatory SCO post.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310059)

Luckily SCO will pay the damage for those of us that signed up with SCO....

Potential fallout? (2, Interesting)

jdreed1024 (443938) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310075)

I'm sure this'll get modded as troll simply because I raise a "what if" question that most folks won't like, but....

So, we all know the GPL says "No warranty..." etc. However, I'm willing to be this is the first time that an actual distribution -- something with a real company behind it (non-profits don't count, so don't post "you forgot GNU/FSF" as a reply) -- has put actual hardware at risk. I could easily see some small business, who installed Mandrake on their machines, get very upset that their CD-ROM drives released magic smoke. Yeah, ok, CD-ROM drives are dirt cheap these days, but that's not the point. This could lead to a test of the GPL in court. It will be interesting to see if anything happens.

No, I'm not saying anyone with a toasted CD-ROM drive has a valid case, but having a valid case is hardly required for filing suit. Will this lead to more disclaimers on packaging? At the very least, I'm sure the Microsoft PR folks are going have a field day with this, especially given the drives are found in a major manufacturer's computers (Dell), and not just some Joe's-computer-store brand. This will only fuel their "See, you lost a CD-ROM drive and because it's open-source, there's no one to cry to" argument.

Or perhaps someone will tell me this is not the first time a distro has created a risk for hardware, and this will all be moot.

This far into the thread... (1)

Linegod (9952) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310076)

and no 'Dude, you're wreaking my Dell'.... weird.

350Mb of updates within a week of release (0, Flamebait)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310081)

Cut to the chase:

Mandrake 9.3 anyone?

Advocating Kiddies? (0)

quantaman (517394) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310082)

From the Google Groups link:


> manipulate it. I am just waiting for the first Win viruses that kill LG
> drives by exploiting this flaw in the firmware!

It might be the best thing to happen if some script kiddies latch onto this
CDROM Drive hardware vulnerability and writea coupla' viruses that destroy
CDROm drives; that would force LG to rectify this vulnerability (that's what
it is). Then it's no longer anything to do with Linux / Mandrake :-)

Since when does /. put a link on the front page to a post that advocates writing viruses that destroys peoples hardware?!? It's not even that it was an important link that just happened to contain that information. There were numerous other, more informative posts that didn't advocate writing viruses that destroy hardware in the same thread that could of been linked just as easily. Why did the poster use that specific link and why did Michael post it!

No wonder! (1)

ratfynk (456467) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310094)

I have a older LG cdrw, No wonder it is so frigging hard to get recognised as a scsi-ide during inet. Slackware is the only one I can get to make it work as a cdrw, sometimes. I think it is time to give LG products a Penguin killer shithead manufacturer award! Someone with more pull around /. should look into this, are LG products and drivers that shitty to the OSS coders?

Sigh.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7310102)

This is going to be quite bad for Mandrake and Linux in general.
Who will pay to fix the drives then?
Mandrake will probably have a disclaimer.
LG will claim its Mandrakes and Linux
Dell machines are quite common, and they seem to be standardised on LG CDrom drives, so
Dell arent going to be happy bunnies either.
The media backlash is going to be quite large on this one.
There will of course be one winner! M$ and BillyG.
Not that they will milk this one.

Suspect this isn't part of the stolen SCO code then?

Do we have any details on the packet writer patch
that is in this kernel?

Not going to install Mandrake now. Nor any other distros for quite a while too in case the patch is in them too.

Guess its back to Windows.

LG's problem, not Mandrake's (2, Interesting)

penguin7of9 (697383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310105)

We have standards for that sort of thing. Presumably, the LG optical drives are standard ATAPI drives, not "Windows drives". If Linux destroys them with standard CD-ROM drivers, then it's a problem with the drives.

In fact, it's hard to see how any CD-ROM driver should be able to destroy any CD-ROM drive unless the drive has some kind of serious design flaw.

Screeching Monitor (2)

BeerMilkshake (699747) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310113)

Yes, software -can- damage hardware if you don't know what you are doing.

When I first installed Slackware in '96, I had a brand new ViewSonic 17PS monitor which was not recognized by Linux by default. I had to research the monitor capabilities and I hand-crafted the XF86 modelines.

When I first ran X, the monitor made this horrible screeching noise. Yikes! I quickly dropped out of X and found someone else's modelines and put them in, then the monitor worked fine (still does).

Linux, hardware and standards are all improving, but ultimately things can go wrong - always read the hardware HOWTO first...

Big deal. (1)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 10 years ago | (#7310114)

I've destroyed LG CD-Roms by simply looking at them the wrong way. This has got to be a distant second.

- A.P.
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