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Cygwin/XFree86 Leaving XFree86.org

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the oh-the-shenanigans dept.

X 446

An anonymous reader writes "The Cygwin/XFree86 project is leaving XFree86.org. For those that don't know, Cygwin/XFree86 is a port of the X Window System to Cygwin (which provides a *nix-like API on Windows). Here is the announcement and the start of the trouble. The XFree86 project has pushed away more developers than most projects ever have - is this the beginning of the end for XFree86?"

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FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320777)

FP

Re:FP (-1, Offtopic)

Ricwot (632038) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320793)

If you're going to be as sad as to claim a first post, at least manage to get it, and make it slightly relevent. Otherwise you're just a gimp

Re:FP (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320842)

you british BASTARD!1!11!

h to the izzo (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320782)

v to the izza
fo sheezy...

yo (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320785)

fuck poast

Here's who XFree86 should sign up instead... (-1, Troll)

Ceren Rocks (717225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320791)

How can people say BSD [freebsd.org] is dying when it has a mascot [freebsd.org] like this?! Linux [debian.org] needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks [hope-2000.org] and gorgeous babes [hope-2000.org] that BSD [openbsd.org] has to offer!

You just can't take Linux [redhat.com] seriously when its fronted by losers [nylug.org] like these. Would you buy software from them? I don't think so! You Linux [suse.com] groupies need to find some sexy girls like her [hope-2000.org] ! I mean just look at this girl [madchat.org] ! Doesn't she [madchat.org] excite you? I know this little hottie [madchat.org] puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox [spilth.org] . As you can see, no man can resist this sexy [spilth.org] little minx [spilth.org] . I mean are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass [kurtspace.com] ?!

With sexy chicks [kurtspace.com] like the lovely Ceren [kurtspace.com] you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD [netbsd.org] if she [kurtspace.com] told you to? Come on, you must admit she [kurtspace.com] is better than an overweight penguin [tamu.edu] or a gay looking goat [gnu.org] ! Don't you wish you could get one of these [drexel.edu] ? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close [kurtspace.com] to such a divine beauty [kurtspace.com] !

Join the campaign for more cute [madchat.org] open source babes [madchat.org] today!

Re:Here's who XFree86 should sign up instead... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320939)




j00 [slashdot.org] are teh ghey n00b

beginning of the end? (0, Flamebait)

joeldg (518249) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320797)

umm..
no.. The reason the push developers away is that many of these guys are trying to bloat xfree to hell.. if they didn't it would be 20x worse than windows..

Re:beginning of the end? (3, Insightful)

Ian Wolf (171633) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320845)

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that X was going away, I'd be a very wealthy man.

Re:beginning of the end? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320866)

If I had a trillion dollars for every time you said that, god damn I'd fucking be richer than a fuckheaded fucker like your stupid fucking ass. Fuckwad.

Re:beginning of the end? (5, Insightful)

cgranade (702534) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320940)

I wonder... do people say "X is going away" because they think it is, or becasue they hope it is?

Re:beginning of the end? (1)

Pyromage (19360) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321033)

But he never said X was going away ;)

He said one implementation, XFree86, may be going away. Unmentioned was that it may be destined to be superceded by a fork, such as Keith Packard's, or one of the others.

Re:beginning of the end? (5, Insightful)

cassidyc (167044) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320867)

Actually it was less to do with "Bloating it" and more to do with fixing bugs.

But then I read it.

CJC

Re:beginning of the end? (4, Funny)

DrWhizBang (5333) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321029)

Wow. It's obvious that you've been following this really closely. Bloat like updated drivers, bugfixes, and other fetures that everyone else has certainly do not belong in XFree86. I hope the XFree86 developers stick by their guns and refuse evil bloatware like back-buffers, vector graphics, and portability.

Re:beginning of the end? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321032)

...because XFree86 isn't bloated at all, no, of course not ;)

disclaimer: this is not a troll post! i'm running Xfree86 right now!!

Re:beginning of the end? (5, Insightful)

Zathrus (232140) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321049)

The reason the push developers away is that many of these guys are trying to bloat xfree to hell

Have any proof to back that statement up?

Harold was requesting CVS commit access only for bugs that pertained to Cygwin only -- they had no impact on other platforms. Hell, if properly ifdef'd they wouldn't even compile into the binaries on other platforms. That doesn't mean they're not bugs though, and it doesn't mean they shouldn't be fixed in the main tree.

We're not talking about features here. And there's a long line of people that have tried to get XFree86 to fix bugs -- either in the core or in drivers -- that have not only been denied commit access but also had their fixes ignored, their questions ignored, and been passively shoved aside when trying to get things fixed. The number of actually active developers (i.e. - number of people with commit access and are actually spending time on the project) on XFree86 is absurdly low for the size of the project.

Re:beginning of the end? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321082)

Bloating X is a problem that is handled by the X Consortium, which is very clear about what should be, and what should not be in a X server.
Problems with X Free are the following : they do not care about quite a lot of feature in X at all (such as a 32 bits mode allowing transparencies, and no, this is not a bloat). They refuse to accept pretty good set of drivers for no apparent reason (DRI anyone). And they often radically change the way they implement this or that without telling anyone who is not a close friend. Leading to quite a lot of fun if you are in a low level project(such as LibXCB for example, but DRI people are having fun too).

Kha

Leaving? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320805)

If developers are leaving the XFree86 arena, where are they flocking to? Is there a replacement readily available or is one in the works?

Re:Leaving? (1, Insightful)

physman (460332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321075)

There was talk last month of a system called Y (check out the slashdot article [slashdot.org] ). However this project is in its infancy, and so cannot be said to be an alternative so the question still remains is there an alternative and the answer would seem to be no (unless anybody can correct me on this). Intrestingly this reminds me of the British Conservative Party and the back-biting and in-fighting they are presently having with their leader IDS (Ian Duncan Smith)!

Cygwin... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320811)

Taste like crab... talk like people... CRAB PEOPLE... CRAB PEOPLE...

Re:Cygwin... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320907)

damn that was a strange fucking episode...

Not for a while.. (3, Interesting)

Mr Smidge (668120) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320812)

I'll certainly say that Xfree86 isn't going anywhere for a while, as it is all over the place now. But I do feel (and others probably do too) that it's about time we 'started again' with something like X but a whole lot neater and simpler.

Re:Not for a while.. (4, Interesting)

cgranade (702534) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320871)

Like YWindows [slashdot.org] ?

Re:Not for a while.. (3, Interesting)

Mr Smidge (668120) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321016)

Very much like Y.

However, some people are bound to complain at its integrated standard toolkit. I like the idea of a standard toolkit for consistency across applications, but to keep everybody happy (and for ultimate flexibility, which is what Linux is about, right?), it would be good for the choice of toolkit to be pluggable... Not based on top, as current toolkits are, but just swappable by Y. That way, we could all be using the same API and have things just the (consistent) way we want them.

Some native OpenGL and SVG support might prove useful too.. :-)

What else is there? (0)

neonprimetime (528653) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320874)

Maybe I'm just too much of a noob,

but what else is there besides XFree86?

Is there anything with a legit chance to

take over?

Or are we destined to code something new?

thanks

Re:What else is there? (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321087)

X.org on the legal side.
Xouvert on the coding side.
Freedesktop.org on the idealogy side.

morons sticking with /..org (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320817)

could this be the beginning of something else?

doesn't matter, we're hanging in there 'til the last postIE. tell 'em robbIE?

"beginning of the end"? (5, Interesting)

Horny Smurf (590916) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320820)

The end pretty much happened earlier this year when the most talented and prolific developers forked to form the xouvert [xouvert.org]


slashdot story [slashdot.org] on the topic.

Re:"beginning of the end"? (1, Flamebait)

bigjnsa500 (575392) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320884)

I just love it when people make websites with revision systems BEFORE releasing code. Morons.. Whatever happened to HAVING something, THEN making a website? Its like the website is more important than the code.

Re:"beginning of the end"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321003)

Uh... the point is to get people interested in helping.

Need anything else explained to you, numbnuts?

Re:"beginning of the end"? (4, Insightful)

dinivin (444905) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320918)

From their Savannah website: [nongnu.org]

Xouvert is a development branch of the Xfree86 source tree. It's purpose is to provide wide testing and integration for third party patches, and to test and stabilize innovative new ideas for submission to the main Xfree86 branch.

Doesn't really sound like Xouvert marks the end of XFree86. Indeed, it sounds like Xouvert is dedicated to improving XFree86.

Dinivin

Re:"beginning of the end"? (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321058)

On the Xouvert side the supposid reason for the "fork" is certain short term commercial interests. On the XFree86 side its a deep personality conflict.

The real issue however is one of roles (i.e. what exactly is the purpose of XFree86:

a) The best implementation of X for the x86 plaform
b) A very good cross platform implementation of X
c) The real reference implementation of X
d) The X implementation to support free software
e) The best possible layer between the kernel and the widget sets for free software desktops

etc...
The Xfree86 guys are in camps a and b. The Xouvert guys are in camps d and e.

Everyone on both sides is denying this is a permanent fork but given the deep idealogy I don't see how to avoid it.

Branch Becomes Trunk (gcc) (5, Insightful)

4of12 (97621) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321121)


Xouvert is a development branch of the Xfree86 source tree. It's purpose is to provide wide testing and integration for third party patches, and to test and stabilize innovative new ideas for submission to the main Xfree86 branch.

It's an interesting phenomenon associated with free software: enough talented developers get the perception that the current people in control are being unreasonable about release schedules, overall direction, features, bugs, indenting styles, etc. and fork their own branch.

A closely-related parallel here is how the egcs [gnu.org] folks wanted greater ability to change the gcc codebase than the gcc developers wanted to do.

Then, the egcs branch took off so famously that later it essentially became [gnu.org] the gcc development branch.

May the best X branch become the tree trunk.

Re:"beginning of the end"? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320944)

Sorry but I dont use any products that have to change the name of something from english to french for no other reason but to be french. BTW happy halloween [consumptionjunction.com]

Re:"beginning of the end"? Maybe not! (4, Informative)

Pope Raymond Lama (57277) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321068)

From the Xouvert HOWTO on the very link you posted above:
--
1.1 What is Xouvert?
Contrary to popular opinion, Xouvert is not a fork of the XFree86 project.

Xouvert wishes to provide a development branch of XFree86. What this means is, Xouvert is an attempt to create, implement, test, and bring new features and ideas to XFree86 sooner.

Xouvert has now just started. Currently, Xouvert simply is XFree86. The purpose of this document is to help people get to a point where they can help contribute to Xouvert.

Thanks for your "insight" (5, Interesting)

pimpinmonk (238443) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320828)

is this the beginning of the end for XFree86?
Is this the end of the beginning? Is it absolutely nothing? Jeez, talk about your random opinion. I don't see XFree dying, but more appropriately, I don't see this as possibly being the cause of the "beginning of the end." XFree-cygwin is definitely not propping the project up, nor are they the primary users.

Re:Thanks for your "insight" (1)

happyfrogcow (708359) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320868)

don't blame the poster. it's just a line lifted from the announcement by harold hunt.

Re:Thanks for your "insight" (1)

pimpinmonk (238443) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321078)

well i would blame the poster, because it sounds very different out of context versus what another person who replied to my post said.

actually, i tried not to be very harsh and didn't blame him, anyway, I just pointed out that it's a naive remark.

Re:Thanks for your "insight" (4, Informative)

Wakkow (52585) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321017)

He was quoting the announcement:

"What this means for XFree86

Some will say nothing. Some will say good riddance. Some will say this is the beginning of the end. Who knows? Who cares? Let /. figure it out."

Re:Thanks for your "insight" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321083)

No, you are wrong on a technicality. Nowhere in the parents quote of the comment in question did he quote what was originally quoted in the announcement. The originaly parent of this thread quoted the question by the poster, not the statement by harold hunt.

So pfft!

After reading the thread... (5, Insightful)

Sanity (1431) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320834)

...the core problem seems to be the rediculous difficulty in obtaining cvs commit access for the project. It is stunning and insulting that someone who has demonstrated their dedication to the project over two years is still not deemed worthy of being able to commit directly to cvs, after all, CVS is designed such that a problematic commit can be backed out very easily.

These guys seem to care more about being able to brag about their commit access in their email signatures than streamlining development of their software and making things as easy as possible for those willing to devote their time and talent to the project.

If ever a project was in need of a fork, and if ever some project developers were in need of an attitude readjustment - this is it.

Re:After reading the thread... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320914)


It is stunning and insulting that someone who has demonstrated their dedication to the project over two years is still not deemed worthy of being able to commit directly to cvs

You mean like why Theo de Raadt left NetBSD [theos.com] to start OpenBSD?

Re:After reading the thread... (1)

MoobY (207480) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321117)

You make an excellent point.

If ever a project was in need of a fork, and if ever some project developers were in need of an attitude readjustment - this is it.

And open source minded as we are, I bet they want your help. Or maybe, no, ehrm, they don't.

Penus Torvalds can push. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320836)

I can shove back tho.

Harry's right... (5, Insightful)

corebreech (469871) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320841)

And he presented his case well. These other XFree86 guys sound like the cast from Othello... way too serious for what is, after all, something that's supposed to be fun: working on an open source project.

You know, what kind of nut must it be to crack to get X running atop of Windows? You'd think they'd give Harry some slack just out of the complexity of what he's doing.

Another poster mentioned that it's the fault of the tools, and I think this is a good point. A truly usable code management system would allow for Bozo the Clown to have commit privileges and it wouldn't impact the overall effort at all.

Re:Harry's right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320881)

its been many years for many of us since high school literature classes. please remind us - what was othello about?

Re:Harry's right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321064)

"its been many years for many of us since high school literature classes. please remind us - what was othello about?"

Well there's this black guy... No wait. There's two black guys and two white dudes. And then this other black guy comes and stands next to one of the white dudes and the white dude feels crowded in and leaves and gets replaced by another black guy.

And then this new white guy comes along and stands next to one of the black guys and all of a sudden some black dudes go away and some white dudes go stand where they were.

It gets good in the final act when everyone is getting all stressed and all and trying to get into the corners and all these white guys and black guys start replacing each other.

This is discouraging (1)

Muda69 (718162) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320847)

I have been using XFree86 since it's inception and this is indeed discouraging news. Sounds like nothing but a big pissing match to me.

Re:This is discouraging (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321079)

And as with most pissing matches I expect some territory will be marked out, penis size and stream range will be compared and commented upon, the joint will stink for a while. . .

and a year from now no one who wasn't directly involved will even remember it happened.

KFG

In Soviet Russia... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320852)

XFree86.org leaves YOU!!!

So uhhhh.... (3, Funny)

DCowern (182668) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320854)

What this means for XFree86

Some will say nothing. Some will say good riddance. Some will say this is the beginning of the end. Who knows? Who cares? Let /. figure it out.

So uhhhhh... who wants to tackle this one? ;-)

Xouvert? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320857)

Can anyone comment on how active/alive Xouvert is?

Re:Xouvert? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320953)

Let's just say they make *BSD look alive.

Unite! (5, Insightful)

molnarcs (675885) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320859)

I think it would be best if all these projects that left Xfree86.org united - the Cygwin/Xfree86 folks, Keith Packard, and pull their resources to come up with a workable development model (yeah, and a workable X - all major projects - Gnome, KDE - are waiting for long promised features that all modern graphical subsystems exhibit except for X.)

"is this the beginning of the end for XFree86?" (0, Troll)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320870)

No.

KFG

Re:"is this the beginning of the end for XFree86?" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320919)

Kentucky Fried... Grapes? :)

Re:"is this the beginning of the end for XFree86?" (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320975)

"Kentucky Fried... Grapes? :)"

Kathmandu Fried Greens.

KFG

beginning of the end? (3, Interesting)

u19925 (613350) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320882)

how many XFree86 users are using Cygwin port? 1 percent? Let us face it, it is not the "beginning of the end" but is rather the "end of the beginning of the end".

Yeah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320917)

I mean, who in their right mind would use a free X windows implemetation on the platform that 95% of the world's computers run?

Geez!

Like anyone needs to Xdisplay applications to a Windows box from a Unix box. Nobody does that anymore!

I wish. (5, Interesting)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320887)

Don't get me wrong, XFree86 is great and all, but I wish there was a replacement. I would be willing to wager that >75% of those of us who run a Linux desktop don't need hardly *any* of the advanced features in the X Windows server. I would like to see a completely modular, X-windows core-compatible windowing system for Linux. Want to use some of the advanced features? Add in the module, recompile, and go!

not hardly no doubleunpositives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320967)

those of us who run a Linux desktop don't need hardly *any*

Sorry, I can't help myself. "Don't need hardly any", you say? Bleh! What would your gradeschool english teacher say about this? I imagine not hardly nothing no good!

(grrr.)

Re:I wish. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321048)

What advanced features don't you need?

Most likely, modern desktop users need much more of the advanced features (recent extensions such as video, OpenGL etc., in particular) than ever.

If you look at what the basic X11 feature set really is, it's really very simple.

Most likely the most complicated thing you aren't using is the color management stuff.

What most people experience as "X11 bloat" currently probably consists more of bloat on the widget toolkit side than on the XFree86 side.

XFree86 could use a lot of cleaning up, but it's not particularly bloated.

Re:I wish. (1)

striker64 (256203) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321055)

Why the recompile? How about Add in module, and go! .. sounds much better to me. If it's meant to be easy, there will be no recompiling at all.

I know this is off-topic, but one of the things that hardly ever gets mentioned in the windows and unix arguments is how well windows does at backwards compatibility. Granted, there are a few apps that are a pain in the ass to get to work, but overall almost any windows program will work on any windows version, and there is no recompiling ever! With linux distro's, virtually every time a new version of the distro is released, you have to either get a newly built rpm (or other similar packaging system), or recompile from the sources .. it just has to end, too much time is wasted trying to get programs up and running.

Re:I wish. (1)

CmdrTHAC0 (229186) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321073)

Why recompilation when we can already add "Load" directives to XF86Config? Dream big: why not go for auto-loading of modules like the Linux kernel?

Re:I wish. (5, Insightful)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321105)

I would be willing to wager that >75% of those of us who run a Linux desktop don't need hardly *any* of the advanced features in the X Windows server.

I would wager that >75% of all software users don't need *any* of the advanced features of the software they use on a daily basis. I would also wager that those in the 25% range drive over 95% of the innovation and development, and that those users _need_ (as much as anyone can need anything) those advanced features.

Doesn't anyone know about the 10/90 or the 20/80 rule anymore? (If no, look it up).

I would like to see a completely modular, X-windows core-compatible windowing system for Linux. Want to use some of the advanced features? Add in the module, recompile, and go!

1st, to me, modular means you don't need to recompile. 2nd, who really cares how modular X is? That surely wouldn't help me get cut and paste working (by this I mean between all X apps and beyond text data). That surely wouldn't help me get drag and drop working. These little features that are over 20 years old are welcomed!

Until these basic needs are met, I don't want to hear another "Is Linux ready for the desktop?" questions.

Best quote: (2, Funny)

Bombcar (16057) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320890)

What this means for XFree86

Some will say nothing. Some will say good riddance. Some will say this is the beginning of the end. Who knows? Who cares? Let /. figure it out.

Perseverance (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320894)

The XFree86 project has pushed away more developers than most projects ever have - is this the beginning of the end for XFree86?

I think not and here's why: I've been working as a consultant for one of the top banks in the US for the last 10 years. One of my roles is to maintain the COBOL-emulator for the VAX systems that we store customer data in. One of the integral pieces, as you may guess, is CygWin. We actively add elements and integrate third-party products with CygWin since it is the best at what it does.

The greatest challenge for our team is to enhance the Win32 abstraction layer so that it no longer interferes with the HAL on a multi-processor layer. We've made some progress and thanks to CygWin we're close to completion.

Which is nice.

Re:Perseverance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320978)

How do you run win32 code on a VAX?

Re:Perseverance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320996)

We don't. The systems running the tools under CygWin are querying the databases on the VAX boxes.

Re:Perseverance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321088)

...maintain the COBOL-emulator for the VAX systems...
Vaxen didn't support COBOL? Color me surprised - or perhaps I misparsed your comment. I'm just curious, could you clarify?

We don't need more fracturing ... (2, Insightful)

hobbs (82453) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320897)

One thing that arguably sparsely resourced open source groups need is more fracturing. Now, in addition to doing the porting work, the cygwin/xfree86 porters will need to deal with source and site maintenance. That's just time wasted essentially.

calling Chicken Little... (4, Insightful)

X_Bones (93097) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320901)

The XFree86 project has pushed away more developers than most projects ever have - is this the beginning of the end for XFree86?

Why the scaremongering, anonymous submitter? Just because one project isn't getting access to XF86's CVS tree and will have to maintain one of their own somewhere else, doesn't mean that everyone will abandon XF86. It's mature, has a ton of features, and has no viable replacement; who is gonna leave and where are they gonna go?

A better question to ask (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320904)




How is this going to affect us, Windows users?

Re:A better question to ask (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320924)

Well, you'll risk the use of a *nix-like API. Whatever that means.

so what are you talking about? (0)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320913)

For those that don't know, Cygwin/XFree86 is a port of the X Window System to Cygwin (which provides a *nix-like API on Windows).

Thanks. I still have no idea what this is.

I do know what X is (more or less). OK, I get that Gygwin is trying to make Windows users have Linux/Unix tools (I think that's what that says). So what is Xfree86 and what are we loosing?

Re:so what are you talking about? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321026)

So what is Xfree86 and what are we loosing?

Apparently, we're "loosing" the ability to use the English language.

Re:so what are you talking about? (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321120)

XFree86 is the implementation of X commonly used for Linux, BSD... It was the obvious choice for cygwin (which is after all named after cygnus a consulting arm of RedHat and the commmercial version is owned by RedHat). No one is losing much of anything. What's happening is that the free software X developer community and the XFree86 developer community are more and more becoming distinct groups.

good move - their whole patch system is whacked (5, Interesting)

graveyhead (210996) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320922)

I've been trying to figure out how to get this [webhop.net] fullscreen patch for Cygwin/X into the dist, but the xfree86 dev list tells me to submit to bugzilla. So what, I'm supposed to invent a bug and then solve it? Its a new feature and it would be nice to have a real place to discuss and enhance it (the xfree86 dev list is very aloof and hasn't been kind to me at all as a newbie x developer). I think it's a good move for Cygwin...

Re:good move - their whole patch system is whacked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321004)

Wait, can't you just run it in rootless? That's just like full screen.

Submit yourself to Bugzilla! rawrg! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321005)

I for one welcome our new Bugzilla overlords.

Re:good move - their whole patch system is whacked (1)

Khazunga (176423) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321112)

It is a bug. No, don't get offended. Request for enhacements are usually treated just like bugs. It's a change request, will get a patch that solves the problem, and will require testing before inclusion in the main tree.

XF86 developers are right when directing you to bugzilla.

configuration nightmare (0, Offtopic)

clustercrasher (675663) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320930)

After spending 6 hours at a Linux Install Fest with 2 Linux guru's, my dual monitor is limping along 800x600. Windows config took 15 minutes. What good is great software if the bar for entry is too high? Perhaps it is just Debian. I did have more luck with RedHat. I guess it is another 6 hours for me. Argh. The good news is the echo 3 > /proc/acpi/sleep worked. Linux is still the best server O/S. Hardware device and applications will probably always lag on Linux.

Re:configuration nightmare (1)

MuParadigm (687680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321084)


Actually, from what I see, hardware device support in Linux has been catching up. True, it still lags behind, but I don't see that "always" being the case. Lots of improvement should come with the 2.6 kernel, and with MS's next OS not coming out for 2-3 years, Linux device drivers should be able to catch up.

As far as applications go, well, as long as developers focus on MS compatibility, the apps will always lag behind for the simple reason that compatability for new Office "features" can't be added until they've been released by MS. The only way around that issue is for developers to concentrate on re-thinking the functionality of desktop apps and implementing their own features to compete with MS.

That may not be practical yet, because of the large installed base that needs that MS compatibility to migrate to Linux and to communicate the "WinWorld". But I do think hardware support will be just as up to date and cutting edge as Windows within a couple years. It's almost there now, and what is supported is usually more stable once it's configured correctly.

Re:configuration nightmare (1)

dsplat (73054) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321134)

my dual monitor is limping along 800x600

I'm reluctant to even ask, but what kind of video card do you have? One of the problems with Debian's stable release is that it has an old version of X on it. The server code is lacking a lot of driver updates that appeared recently.

XFree are really stupid people ... read why! (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320941)

I can understand their decision. XFree has matured to be a really broken pile of software which is badly maintained after all. There is a known CMS and XLIB locking problem in XFree 4.3.0 and upwards which they reject to fix (and this is known for many months now). Even patches and fixes exist for it and they still reject to fix it. When you use GTK+ 2.3.0 on it then it heavily crashes.

Read here the fixes [freedesktop.org]

I can imagine that there are to many trouble but I think that the remaining people working on XFree are fucking dumbasses and the primary troublemakers here. They threw the major leading developers out, those that liked to bring XFree up to new roots, fix many bugs, make it modern. And what do we have now ?

Xouvert as lame fork with people who may not be able to deal with it.

XFree as a lameass project full of bugs they not gonna fix, full of people who slowly develop it and who use old versions of xcursor, freetype, fontconfig and stuff like this. Ignore bugreports and fixes

FreeDesktop org as last bastion for people like Keith Packard and Jim Gettys to fix all the stuff.

I think we should start to boycott XFree.

Re:XFree are really stupid people ... read why! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7321080)

Who was that dumbass who marked this as Troll + Extra ? Are you some sort of XFree taskforce who do not like bad PR ? You can mark this Troll as much you want this all won't change the facts it covers. When you follow the initial title of this article then you see that this is a confirmed thing. XFree is a bad project. They have thrown out a lot of powerful people, they reject to fix the described issues. Marking my reply as Troll doesn't change the actual facts.

This is why... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7320943)

...you shouldn't work with your homosexual lovers on this project. Suddenly one guy decides that he no longer wants to be a "bottom" and then one thing leads to another and the code forks.

It's the truth behind the Linux/slashdot homosexual pound-taco-in-the-ass conspiracy.

word!

The good replacement (0, Offtopic)

einux (636727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7320979)

check out www.fresco.org it seems like _the_ replacement - and it also seems they could use some more develpers....

Just like Gnome was the end of KDE (4, Insightful)

bluGill (862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321025)

Remember when Gnome split from KDE? They fully intended to end KDE, yet today both are powerful desktop systems that have benifited from each other. (Last I cheked you can't even complile KDE with a couple GNOME libs - code reuse in action)

For that matter, linux was the end of BSD, or perhaps we should say OpenBSD was the end of NetBSD. Take your pick of history, BSD is alive in well despite what some anonymous cowards would have you believe.

This is a good thing, XFree86 has gotten a lot of criticism, let the critics go their own speerate ways and each prove their way is best. In the end the best way wins, or if there is no best way, all survive, and each focuses on the areas where its way of doing things is best.

Maybe XFree has had its day (2, Interesting)

Whammy666 (589169) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321095)

I like Xfree. But it's still basically X. The problem I have with X is that it's overkill for most client desktops. It's nice that X allows remote windowing. But how many users actually need that? (I'm ignoring the security implications this has as well.) The reality is that 99.9% of X applications have both the client application and X server on the same machine. So why have such a complicated networking layer to draw a window on a screen? Seems like a lot of unnecessary overhead to me.

I seem to remember there was a move to streamline X given this new reality. But I don't know what it's called. Could someone fill me in?

Another Troll for the Mills (0, Flamebait)

evronm (530821) | more than 10 years ago | (#7321097)

BSD is dying, and now XFree86 is too. Have fun, trolls!

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