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Mac OS X 10.3 vs. Linux

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the apples-and-penguins dept.

Apple 659

M.Broil writes "This is a nice and fairly complete 'first look' at Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther), but author Chris Gulker, who I happen to know was an Apple PR guy years ago, spends a lot of time comparing the Mac 'Panther' release to Linux, which he seems to use most of the time these days. He obviously likes a lot about Panther, but he doesn't think many Linux users will switch to it, and that a lot of 'Classic' Mac OS users may not want to move to it, either."

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linux wins (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356261)

first poasssst!

Re:linux wins (-1, Offtopic)

CelticWhisper (601755) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356265)

First non-anonymous post. w00t. (My very first first post! Wheeeeee!)

Re:linux wins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356274)

you failed it too.
clearly the title of first poassst goes to meeeee.

os x (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356263)

osx is linux x os

fp

Re:os x (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356269)

you failed it
my poast won

[Supplementary article] (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356271)

Welcome to the new alternative voice of Slashdot. Articles Slashdot won't print.

Don't like the article about Apple and Linux? Then how about reading this one instead? Even an omelette [slashdot.org] needs a little spicing up every once in a while.

And now back to the article of wackiness (with some truth sprinkled in) for your amusement:

I interrupt your daily Two-Minute Hate for something a bit more constructive. Yes we love Apple.. and we all hate Microsoft..... and Darl McBride.. boo hiss! It just makes me mad thinking about him, grrr! There, that felt better. Now that I got that out of my system, it is time for a few news items that I'm sure you'd find interesting. Just this quarter, the U.S. GDP rose to levels that are the best seen since 1984 [go.com] . Yay America! Go go, you're the best, keep it up, rah rah rah! Also, I would also like to thank our Lord and Maker for George Bush who will protect us from pornography this week [whitehouse.gov] . Might as well look at stuff like this [ctrl-c.liu.se] before the Bush administration wakes up from the hibernation mode it assumed during its war on Afghanistan (the U.S. people are freedom loving moderates, not Islamic killjoy extremists like the Taliban) and switches to full-fledge Christian foe-of-freedom fundamentalist extremism. Remember, pornography [reference.com] is not just about naked bodies, it's also about the grotesque. George Bush will protect you from all those smutty photos of dead Iraqis blown up by rockets for this week and forevermore. Now it's time for your government mandated daily one minute of silent reflection.. starting now.

- Profit Bob, Reverend of Truth

Props out to Anti-Slash.org [anti-slash.org] .
Oh yeah, and props out to Argon Vile. Your shit's the funniest.. now if only the rest of the world had balls like you.

And I think I speak for everybody when I say a nice big "Fuck you!" to all who compulsively mod down dissenters. But just in case I haven't offended enough people to get this post modded down, here are some more thoughts that the Sheeple won't dare let you debate:
  • Apple's hardware is some of the most proprietary locked down machinery in existance.
  • Microsoft develops software that people are actually willing to put down hard-earned cash to buy. Now, compare that to the Linux people.
  • The average Linux enthusiast's main concern is that the software they use is free of cost. When's the last time any of you Linux people actually bought a distribution and not copied it from someone else?
  • The RIAA produces music that people love enough to *cough* steal. Yes I know it's not really stealing because the RIAA still has a copy of the music and nothing was taken away from them and you wouldn't have paid for the music anyways. Yeah, whatever cheapskate! Americans have so much disposable income I find it hard to believe that you couldn't spare a Benjamin for the hours you will spend listening to music. Now, we may not all like Britney Spears but there are hundreds of other artists to choose from. Somebody must like to listen to at least some of it, otherwise Kazaa would be dead. The RIAA is right in sending lawsuits out to people who are caught distributing their music. And no, you aren't fighting for the little guy when you steal RIAA's stuff, you are expanding the profitability of the broadband industry and reducing the profitability of selling music. Because the broadband industry's growth thrives on filesharing, the industry must ensure that there are more files to share to keep growing. Thus, megacorporations develop such that the broadband industry subsidizes music production in order to continue the profitability of the internet business. In fact, by trading (as you like to call it) music, you are making it harder for artists to make money without the help of a big megacorp to sponsor their work! That means fewer indies will be profitable. You say you are fighting for the little guy, huh? Now tell me which little guy told you to keep up the good work, if you will. I don't expect to hear an answer as I suspect some of you have a habit of spicing up your arguments by putting words in the mouths of others.
  • The MPAA produces movies that people love, like the LoTR series and the Harry Potter movies seem to be all the rage. Yes, we may not have liked Gigli and shudder at the image of Jar Jar Binks.. and some movies lately may be lacking the depth of plot we like, but all-in-all we love their stuff. Let's at least 'fess up to it.

One line that sums it up IMO (3, Insightful)

maharg (182366) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356277)

A quick ssh from my Linux machine revealed that only the GUI had frozen

Let the flaming commence !

Re:One line that sums it up IMO (5, Interesting)

juuri (7678) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356370)

Actually if he had taken the time to debug he could have found the offending process and killed it. It pains me to see people who would do the same thing if an X app froze up your WM become stupid when it happens on another OS. Hell, many GUI locks on XP can be averted if you have terminal services running and want to login and poke around.

Is this the ideal behaviour for most people? No. But if this had happened on an X session would this reviewer have just assumed X itself was locked and kill it?

Re:One line that sums it up IMO (1, Flamebait)

cscx (541332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356400)

Hell, many GUI locks on XP can be averted if you have terminal services running and want to login and poke around.

Actually, the usual case is that the "Windows Security" dialog (with task manager, etc) is tied to the ctrl-alt-del keyboard interrupt, and is available about 99% of the time, even when you've hosed the GUI.

While this reeks "video driver" to me as a windows/linux user, APPLE MAKES THE DAMN HARDWARE... one would think they could avert things like this easily since they have very fine control over everything.

Apple and Linux are really lagging behind in the recovery area... when X gets hosed, it usually takes the console keyboard with it. Now Linux has support for that "Magic sysrq key" thingee if you compile it into the kernel to do things like reboot, but it would be great if you could do that, and it would spawn another virtual console running top or something.

Not everyone has a second computer they can ssh in from, let alone the fact that you're running sshd or not.

Re:One line that sums it up IMO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356447)


While this reeks "video driver" to me as a windows/linux user, APPLE MAKES THE DAMN HARDWARE...

I thought they bought from ATI and nVidia.

Re:One line that sums it up IMO (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356486)

Yeah, you can get a process list using sysreq. Of course, if you want to be able to read this when the screen is in graphics mode, you should configure your kernel to use the framebuffer with the same graphics mode. You can still use an accelerated X server, but the kernel will then be able to write the sysreq help screen or your process list etc to your screen even when your GUI misbehaves (which never happens for me anyway, but whatever). You can also use it to just kill all processes running on this virtual console.

Re:One line that sums it up IMO (1)

sinistral (80451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356429)

What's to flame? That's how I recover from GUI hangs.

Also, having a Linux box around can be very useful. I can just ssh -X to the Linux machine, and run programs on my Mac without bothering to compile them. Tunneling X over gigabit ethernet is a beautiful thing.

In college I went through a Mac phase (3, Funny)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356278)

This was back when the monitors didn't come separately from the rest of the machine (i.e. before that Mac clone fiasco).

I always loved the Mac interface because of its easy of use and very solid color support. I found that it was easy to make rainbows for my group's posters using the PageMaker software, much easier than anything on an IBM PC.

I eventually grew out of my 'rainbow' phase and am back using Windows and sometimes even Linux (Yellow Dog, for when I'm feeling a little 'crazy'!), but the experience just isn't the same. We Mac users are a happy community, and sometimes I just want to give old Steve Jobs a hand.

Re:In college I went through a Mac phase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356308)

I found that it was easy to make rainbows for my group's posters using the PageMaker software...

Surely this is a Mac users = gay troll?

Re:In college I went through a Mac phase (5, Funny)

Negatyfus (602326) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356330)

sometimes I just want to give old Steve Jobs a hand.

Am I the only one that finds this remark a little disturbing? My Gods, the mental image I got from this!

Re:In college I went through a Mac phase (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356498)

Mod parent (+1, Funny).

At least now I know I'm not the only one with a dirty mind

(Posted anonymously to protect the innocent. I'm innocent, aren't I?)

Re:In college I went through a Mac phase (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356376)

found that it was easy to make rainbows for my group's posters using the PageMaker software

Mmmkay...

sometimes I just want to give old Steve Jobs a hand

Are you sure you didn't mean "hand job?"

*sputter* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356487)

Are you sure you didn't mean "hand job?"

The club wasn't at all some fanboy club for Apple, as you seem to suggest. Rather, it was a pre-law club.

Our president (at the time) [prestongates.com]

Good to see some non biased coverage (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356279)

It's a good thing to see someone with geek knowledge reviewing OSX for what it is. Some good and some bad. I've been saying for years now that there's still many areas where OSX has yet to catch up to Linux. In the tightly configured server market, as a desktop, and in sheer number of apps it's getting better, but is still a little behind Linux IMHO.

OSX pushing forward can only help push its competitors forward also, something that's a good good thing

Re:Good to see some non biased coverage (1)

GraWil (571101) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356371)

So your suggesting that Linux currently:

(1) is a better desktop than OS X and
(2) has more (better?) apps.

Wow folks, that is some serious insight.

Re:Good to see some non biased coverage (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356426)

Exactly. At the moment the incredible choice in desktop solutions under Linux can't be ignored. When it comes to apps (server and desktop) the quality, secure and most updated apps are newest on Linux or originated on it.

Re:Good to see some non biased coverage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356387)

The problem GNU/Linux as a whole has is that it has no market incentive to actually push forward. Almost everything is done by volunteers for nothing in their spare time and this can stunt application development. Many open source projects are started by one person who needs it for something specific, he releases it, makes a project page on sourceforge, and forgets about it, leaving it in an unfinished state. Commercial projects, however, can't do that, or they won't sell many copies!

Classic sucks (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356281)

I don't see why a Classic Mac user wouldn't switch, the pre-X versions were total garbage

Re:Classic sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356312)

Mod parent to 5 please

what about all 3 major OS's (4, Informative)

narkotix (576944) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356283)

I came across this [thetechnozone.com] article a while ago
its not up to date but its a pretty good comparison

MacOS (3, Interesting)

Pingular (670773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356288)

is definetly getting quicker, and is already very easy to use. But I'll give you a (slightly altered) quote to sum up the situation: 'Linux makes the easy things difficult, but it makes the hard things easier and the impossible things possible.'
Wheras MacOS makes the easy things easy, the hard things hard and the impossible things not possible.

Re:MacOS (1, Redundant)

Frac (27516) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356321)

But I'll give you a (slightly altered) quote to sum up the situation: 'Linux makes the easy things difficult, but it makes the hard things easier and the impossible things possible.'

Wheras MacOS makes the easy things easy, the hard things hard and the impossible things not possible.


Great quote you got there. Too bad it's false unless you're willing to back it up with examples.

Re:MacOS (1)

Pingular (670773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356365)

Great quote you got there. Too bad it's false unless you're willing to back it up with examples.
Example here [debian.org] . If you're going to (mildly) flame me why don't you try learning how to use Google [google.com] first?

That's not an example (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356403)

You are an idiot of the highest order.

However, I may make an exception in the case that English is not your first language.

Re:That's not an example (1)

Pingular (670773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356422)

That's not an example
IMO your problem with the installation CDs can have one of two causes :
1. There is something in your already installed linux that prevents the install from running again. This should easily be solved by formating the partitions you are installing to during setup ( = create new filesystem on partition ).
2. Your CD set or CD drive is physically damaged. Do you have access to an other computer with CD? Can you look at your installation CDs there?
Oh, and as to your modem problem : Which kernel are you using? The /dev/ttyx becomes obsolete with the 2.2.x series, replaced by /dev/cuax. Could this be your problem?
Hang on in there! I always say : Linux makes the easy things a tad more difficult, but it makes the hard things easier and the impossible things possible, at least once in a while :-)
I fail to see how that isn't an example.

Re:That's not an example (1)

MrMickS (568778) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356446)

I fail to see how that isn't an example.
Because you originally said.
Wheras MacOS makes the easy things easy, the hard things hard and the impossible things not possible
The referred document was about what was possible with Linux. It said nothing about what wasn't possible with MacOS.

An example of why your statement is false has to be non-linear video editing and DVD authoring. These are both complex tasks that up until a few years ago would have been thought impossible for the majority of people. iMovie changed the former, iDVD changed the latter. Anyone can now do these things.

Re:That's not an example (1)

Pingular (670773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356466)

Because you originally said.
Wheras MacOS makes the easy things easy, the hard things hard and the impossible things not possible
Yes, but you completely failed to mention what I said before that:
But I'll give you a (slightly altered) quote to sum up the situation
Way to quote me out of context.

You confound stupidity researchers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356450)

The depth to which your stupity sinks is immeasurable.

And you still haven't posted an example. Yes, you've posted a quote.

A witty saying proves nothing.

Re:MacOS (3, Insightful)

mst76 (629405) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356366)

MacOS is definetly getting quicker, and is already very easy to use. But I'll give you a (slightly altered) quote to sum up the situation: 'Linux makes the easy things difficult, but it makes the hard things easier and the impossible things possible.' Wheras MacOS makes the easy things easy, the hard things hard and the impossible things not possible.
This is very true. OS X is more suitable for general day to day computing and mainstream apps. Linux is easier to customize for niche applications. You can set up Point Of Sale systems, kiosk type apps and terminals for (almost) nothing with Linux and old x86 hardware. With a bit of care, you can assemble your own specialized distributions on a 128mb compactflash or a live cdr, something I don't see happening with OS X.

Re:MacOS (3, Insightful)

nikster (462799) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356469)

that will continue to be the case for as long as apple does not sell POS systems, kiosk type apps, or old x86 hardware.

Re:MacOS (3, Insightful)

Llywelyn (531070) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356441)

'Linux makes the easy things difficult, but it makes the hard things easier and the impossible things possible.'

I admit I'm kind of curious what "hard things [are made] easier" on Linux that aren't also made easier under MacOS X? What impossible things are made possible that aren't that way under MacOS X?

Re:MacOS (1)

irc.goatse.cx troll (593289) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356476)

"what "hard things [are made] easier" on Linux that aren't also made easier under MacOS X? "
Scaling down to near-nothing or up to supercomputers.
"What impossible things are made possible that aren't that way under MacOS X?"
Sourcecode modification of your gui?

Re:MacOS (2, Informative)

Llywelyn (531070) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356502)

>Scaling down to near-nothing or up to supercomputers.

Scaling down is easy. You can disable the GUI and the extraneous services, though if you are going to do that for all of your systems its probably best just to install Darwin by itself.

As to supercomputers, the Terrascale Computing Facility would certainly seem to qualify. If you are talking things like crays, I'd call that a limitation of the hardware support and not a limitation of the OS.

>Sourcecode modification of your gui?

Well, you can run X11 with GNome if you prefer.

MacOS X 10.3 vs. Linux? Or MacOS X data sheet? (1, Informative)

michib01 (464760) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356294)

"MacOS X 10.3 vs. Linux" would make me think of an article detailing pro's and con's of the two OS.
The article is interesting for me: I don't know almost anything about the panther thing...
But it isn't a real comparison between Linux and MacOs X.
The author only says there isn't any compelling reason for switching fron linux to panther.

What makes MacOS X better... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356296)

Is that MacOS X has several high-quality specialised desktop applications [apple.com] to its name, and Linux hasn't got any.

Re:What makes MacOS X better... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356425)

Here are the equivalents:

Mac OS X v10.3 Panther. - Debian GNU/Linux
AppleScript. - Perl

iCal. - KOrganizer
iChat AV. wall [msg]

iSync. - Kandy

Safari. - Mozilla

X11. - XFree

iTunes 4. - XMMS

iPhoto 2. - xv

Applications

AppleWorks. - OpenOffice

Keynote. - KPresenter

DVD Studio Pro. - XCDRoast + cdrecord

Soundtrack. - Audacity

Backup. - GNU tar

Apple Remote Desktop. - VNC

WebObjects. - Tomcat

QuickTime Player. - XMMS

QuickTime Streaming Server. - icecast OGG streaming server

QuickTime Broadcaster. - oggenc

Oh, I'm sorry, you said "High-quality." I guess you're right.

Re:What makes MacOS X better... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356499)

try this (since you already mentioned kde apps):

Safari - Konqueror

and probably k3b instead of xcdroast (it's going to fit better with 'high quality')

[span style="ironic"]
now, maybe he meant 3rd party apps ... then one can fill the rest of the list with crossover + win32 apps for linux. d'oh

I wonder what will be the next 'unsupported for mac' adobe app. any bets on eol for photoshop?
[/span]

DAV over https? (2, Interesting)

sita (71217) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356297)

What I want to know is if DAV over https is supported yet.

Re:DAV over https? (1)

Trillan (597339) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356468)

On Mac OS X specifically, or as part of the protocol? I have to admit I haven't heard of DAV over https.

If it's Panther in particular and you have a server in mind, I'll be happy to check.

not switching? (5, Interesting)

Noodlenose (537591) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356304)

I was initially bitching about OS X, but since 10.1 I would never ever go back to 9. The commandline options, the GUI and the immense possibilities of having almost full compatibility with a huge UNIX backcatalogue are just impressive.

There is NO reason to run Classic anymore, except if you run classic hardware, in which you don't have the choice.

Dirk P

Re:not switching? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356349)

What? A sensible Mac user?

Finder windows offer a new pane, called a Sidebar, that weds the NeXT-like columnar file hierarchy view with a Windows XP-like list of storage devices and common sub-directories in the user's home folder.

NeXT needs help from Redmond. Yeah right.

Classic for VPC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356471)

I boot into Mac OS 9.2.2 to run Connectix Virtual PC 5.04. Classic requires far less processing power and RAM, so VPC gets more. I have an iMac G4 800 with 512 MB RAM and I can give those virtual PC's 320 MB RAM. Runs Debian Linux just fine (installed from Knoppix 3.3 CD).

User Education is a potential problem.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356483)

Every time I hear a user say "My Mac has locked up - can I do something to save my work still?", I just have to laugh.

Explaining to people that you have to assign max memory allowed per application also gets painful.

Trouble with going to Mac OS X:
1) A pile of G4 400 MHz macs that really aren't fast enough and would require a lot more RAM too.
2) Explaining the differences to users could take ages

Let's Do It !!! (-1, Flamebait)

aleman32 (558037) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356314)

Listen everyone:

MacOS != Windows

MacOS Base == Linux Base
(kinda)

If you're gonna support a side, give Mac your money; fsck longhorn. In those two years until its realease, we can advocate for the more intuitive and [partially] free OS that Mac is. And which the Linux desktop will eventually become.

God bless the penis
--Adam Corolla

Re:Let's Do It !!! (1)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356388)

If you're gonna support a side, give Mac your money; fsck longhorn. In those two years until its realease, we can advocate for the more intuitive and [partially] free OS that Mac is. And which the Linux desktop will eventually become

Smart, not only support a company that has a proprietary UI on a *nix with no intention of opening it, but also a company that has full control of its own hardware market as well.

Geesh... Even if you hate Microsoft, at least they support tons of hardware and don't force you to buy any brand. (And don't give me a Mice speech, Logitech mice work just a well as Microsoft mice on MS OSes.

Not going to defend Microsoft, but to play Apple as the god's gift ot the Open Source movement is the stupiest thing I have seen posted in a long time.

And please don't post Darwin Links to prove that Apple is all warm and fuzzy with open source.

The ASDL is NOT true open source, it is a disclosure out of public image and necessity due to the ripped off BSD and MACH technologies.

19th post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356317)

Look at me, I'm your friendly neighbourhood first post troll who forgot to refresh slashdot every 5 seconds. (Yes, I'm also AC. :)

I know lots of nasty linux bugs, few mac bugs (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356320)

I know lots of nasty linux bugs, few mac bugs

For example a relatively modern virgin install of full redhat linux with gnome could be make to soft-hang byt copyung a directory into its decendent further down the hierarchy... infinte recursion.

HAH! no version of any mac os allowed that idiotic bug and used checks to prevent it.

There are plenty more lazy shortcuts riddled through linux. The most glaring are the counltess places where no error detection allows bugs to become more dramatic. Fro example in some linux kernels there was assumption that certain writes to the boot device never fail to write, but had no feedback.

I do not care.

I use classic mac, and windows and sometimes osx, and think trying to comapre linux vs freebsd based mac is pointless. The mac will always have 8 times the market share and countless shrinkwrapped commercial apps.

Libux was predicted to overtake mac 55 years ago and it never happened then and will also not ever happen in another 5 years, if ever.

FreeBSD mac OSX won the race. and most of the source code is open.

apple just released the source to darwin 7.0 (full source to most of the parts of mac os that count) and did it coinciding with the release of the mac.

Re:I know lots of nasty linux bugs, few mac bugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356326)

i meant '5' years not 55 obviously. sorry for being lazy typist.

XCODE!!!! Amzing apple xcode. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356389)

Apple includes a full cd of developer goodies and timing analysys tools (CHUD) on the fourth cd in every box of the faster better Panther 10.3 OSX.

This xcode compiler-IDE environment allows distributed cpu distributed mac compiles. It also has lots of modern high tech link and compiler techniques and the cool stuff pioneered on NeXT Step in late 1990 that was partly implemented as proof of concept a few years later at Apple (DINKER - dynamic linker).

But the dynamic linker technologies in Xcode allow changing and radically altering single routines while an ap is still running, without having to compile without most popular optimizations.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jun/23xcode .h tml

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/

linux installs rearely have GUI based debuggers and GDB has some really ugly hacks to make it work with mice, but rarely are there any great low level (driver debugging) gui based debuggers on linux.

xcode makes programmers much more productive and this artcle refused to compare compiler tools.

naturally mac users can also use FINK if they want to and install most all other popular open source apps without RPM hell.

Also mac now includes full "The X Windows System" x11 on the thhird installer cd and includes "The X Windows System" sdk on the developer cd now, to aid in porting high end scientific apps momentarily before being redressed as pleasing cocoa interfaced apps.

The main reason to use macs is that they are cheaper than intel for cpu power, that is why the number 3 spot on www.top500.org list will be the Univ VT 1100 node mac clusster in nivember when the list is publicly posted.

intel, itanium, AMD cannot compete against the dual g5 in performance and price. Especially if you need 8 gigabyte of physical RAM (Mac) and PCI-X 133Mhz 64bit slots (Mac) and 64 bit integers (mac) etc etc etc.

Do not get me wrong.... LINUX is interesting, and almsot became popular, but most the people I know that supported linux that have jobs adn incomes all switched over to macs even before the dual g5 shipped and many more have switched to mac since. They run linux servers but use macs for enjoyment, and personal productivity.

Some also run macs as servers but not the ones taht have no need for science or no need of apples dirt cheap cheap Fibre channel 14 drive raid array. (xRAID).

ah welll.... i wish this article was written from a DEVELOPERS point of view.

here is a technology brief on the new compiler-debugger environment (yes it uses GCC at core and GDB as well) :

http://www.apple.com/macosx/pdf/Panther_Xcode_TB _1 0232003.pdf

(ignore spaces slashcode foolishly adds to >80 char links)

Re:I know lots of nasty linux bugs, few mac bugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356439)

apple just released the source to darwin 7.0 (full source to most of the parts of mac os that count) and did it coinciding with the release of the mac.
Funny you would say that. Many Mac users say that the part of MacOS that counts most is the GUI.

Even at this hour... (the Article) (2, Informative)

gsdali (707124) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356323)

News Forge appears to be getting the /. treatment, so here's the article:

An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3

By: Chris Gulker

Apple's BSD-based Mac OS X 10.3 Panther offers 64-bit processor support and new features wrapped in the latest version of a GUI that has its roots in the NeXT desktop. While Panther sets a new standard for ease of use and interface look and feel, it still lacks features that Linux users have long enjoyed.

Panther, billed as "the evolution of the species" and built on the open source Darwin project's version of BSD 5, really is an evolutionary step -- not a revolutionary new operating system. Panther does offer admirable user-interface consistency and ease-of-use, but its new Finder is bound to draw complaints from died-in-the-wool Mac users,

particularly the large base of users who still cling to Mac OS 9 "Classic."

*NIX users will find this one of the most polished GUIs ever bolted onto a UNIX-like OS and probably won't have issues with the file browser. Mac developers groaned audibly when Steve Jobs presented an OS X Finder based on the NeXT columnar file browser at the ADC conference in 1998, and Mac OS Classic users continue to resist it in favor of traditional Mac windows, icons, and folders. In Panther, columnar view is the default window behavior.

Apple has taken the sleek, brushed chrome interface featured on apps like iTunes and Safari and applied it to the new version of Finder, the always-on application that provides the Mac desktop and handles chores like connecting to servers and other shared resources. Gone are many of the shiny, translucent Aqua interface widgets and light gray pin stripes that debuted barely three years ago.

Finder windows offer a new pane, called a Sidebar, that weds the NeXT-like columnar file hierarchy view with a Windows XP-like list of storage devices and common sub-directories in the user's home folder. Buttons on the customizable window allow users to select iconic, list or column views and turn the Sidebar on and off.

While this will be handy for people who are at home with hierarchical file systems, it has potential to confuse others because it can mask parts of the hierarchy, particularly when the list or icon views are selected. At first glance, files appear to live at the top of whatever directory is selected in the Sidebar -- intervening folders and subfolders are not shown. Sidebar does not have an option for the tree view common to Linux and Windows desktop windows.

ExposZ allows for one-click tiling of all open windows.
A new feature called ExposZ allows one-button (or one-click) tiling of all the open windows as thumbnails, and is a very handy way to find a specific window on a crowded desktop with many apps running.

Panther continues Apple's commitment to making it easy to use Macs in heterogenous network environments. Mac OS X 10.3 offers easy one-click access to network servers in the underlying BSD 5 subsystem. A click-to-start list in the Systems Preferences Sharing panel turns on ASIP (AppleShare over IP), SMB, Apache, FTP, and printer sharing via LPD/LPR and CUPS. NFS, surprisingly can only be turned on using the command line or a GUI config app like Marcel Bresink's NFS Manager.

Panther also discovers and connects to virtually any Windows or *NIX server, although, in practice, the process didn't always work smoothly, and occasionally not at all. Panther generated username/password errors and refused to connect to a Red Hat Linux 9 box running NFS on a local subnet. For its part, the Red Hat box could see the Mac in its UNIX network browser, but returned an error when attempting to open a directory. For some reason, SuSE 8.2 worked fine, in both directions, and the Mac happily connected via ASIP to the netatalk server on the RH 9 box.

Panther also features Rendezvous, Apple's version of zeroconf, that does a good job of discovering supported server and printer shares on the subnet. Panther's new Finder doesn't cure one of my pet peeves: Finder still stalls while network processes like trying to connect to servers are in progress. The time-out seems to be shorter than it was in Jaguar, and the dread spinning beach-ball appears more quickly to let the user know the machine hasn't locked up.

And Panther does lock up. While I was investigating the screensavers, I clicked on the .Mac option that downloads and displays a high-key slide show of gleaming Apple products using the features of Apple's Quartz graphics system. Not only did the screensaver not load, but the GUI locked up completely. The mouse cursor would move, but everything else, even the clock, froze.

A quick ssh from my Linux machine revealed that only the GUI had frozen; BSD/Darwin was chugging along fine underneath Panther's hood, and I was able to do a safe restart from the remote terminal. Lacking another machine and a network, I would have had to do a hard reset on the Mac. For $129, you would hope to get a well-debugged product.

The Mac's distinguishing Finder app may not win many plaudits from longtime Mac users.
A feature I would love to see in Mac OS X is virtual desktops. My Red Hat/Gnome machine has become a productivity workhorse because I can have several projects -- with different apps, docs et al. -- open at the same time and switch between them as needs dictate. I think nothing of leaving apps and files open for days or even weeks on the Linux machine.

Panther's predecessor, Jaguar, was quite stable -- the Finder and apps would sometimes blow up, but they normally exited gracefully. This is a dot-zero rev of Mac OS 10.3, so we'll have to wait and see if Panther really is "Solid as a Rock," as Apple advertising claims.

Panther comes with a ton of Apple "iApps" that handle everything from multimedia chat to photo collections to music downloads to movie making, and Panther integrates them well into the operating system. For example, iPhoto slideshows are listed and available from the screensaver tab of the System Prefs control panel, and the Finder has an iChat menu that lists currently available buddies and user status. Apple's Safari will play back streaming music in iTunes, and QuickTime Player plays video in Finder and Safari browser windows.

Apple's Mail app has been revved to include better topic thread management, including a nifty e-mail summary feature, but its bare bones look and feel have evolved little. Mail's trainable Bayesian spam filters work quite well with a bit of training, and Mail integrates nicely with the Apple Address Book, which now supports syncing with Exchange servers as well as LDAP.

Mail integrates only minimally with iCal, Apple's calendar app, though it (or any mail program) is available from other apps to handle chores like emailing photos. Apple's integration is nice, but Ximian's Evolution is a better email/calendar/contact bundle, in my humble opinion, especially when teamed with SpamAssassin.

Notable additions to Panther include Font Book, a new font management app, integrated fax sending and receiving (long a Mac OS X weak spot), FileVault, which offers 128-bit AES home-directory encryption/decryption on the fly, a personal firewall and a XFree86 4.3-based X window system as an option of the installer package. There's also fast user switching, built-in 802.11 and Bluetooth support and revved versions of the DVD player, iSync and more.

Indeed, Panther comes with so much software it's hard to believe there will be much incentive for commercial developers to embrace the platform. Long-time Apple partner Adobe Systems recently dropped the Mac version of its Premiere movie-editing package and has chosen not to develop Photoshop Album and other new applications for the Mac.

Open source developers, on the other hand, will be interested in the tighter integration of X11 with Aqua. Many X11-based apps will just compile and run on Mac OS X, and features such as cut-and-paste between Aqua and X apps are supported. Apple apparently believes that open source, rather than commercial development, represents the future of Mac software.

Performance on my 2000-vintage 500 MHz G4 Power Mac was acceptable, if not snappy. I should note that the upgrade install took more than two hours; my last Red Hat install took 30 minutes. Performance on a single-processor PowerMac G5 was another experience entirely; even 32-bit apps displayed performance I can only describe as immediate -- owing, no doubt, to the G5 board's massive bandwidth and CPU power.

Will Panther tempt Linux users? Sure! But I don't think there will be widespread defections, given the price points of the Apple hardware required to run it. A bigger question for Apple will be whether its own faithful, the millions of users still on Mac OS 9, will find Panther compelling enough to make the jump to the future of Mac OS.

Chris Gulker, a Silicon Valley-based freelance technology writer, has authored more than 130 articles and columns since 1998. He shares an office with 7 computers that mostly work, an Australian Shepherd, and a small gray cat with an attitude.

Re:Even at this hour... (the Article) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356329)

Whore!

No its not ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356406)

as has been said before ... WHORE!

Switching... (5, Insightful)

Chicane-UK (455253) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356341)

He obviously likes a lot about Panther, but he doesn't think many Linux users will switch to it..

Well he can put me down as a Linux user who jumped onto OSX.

I really like Linux, but I just never got on with it as a desktop OS - lots of little things used to irk me, and the frustration of trying to get Linux working with much more modern hardware (like my NForce2 board) just made me get fed up with the whole idea.

Using OSX is like having the ultimate Linux distro.. you have THE best GUI available today, there are loads of Window XP beating applications shipped with OSX as standard, and hardware integration is obviously perfect - stuff just works. Plus you can quite easily get into the underlying UNIX core, and tamper with things - having such a functional GUI, and being able to fire up a terminal and use things like openssh, pico, etc right out of the box just totally sold me.

I still use Linux on my servers though.. you just can't beat that reliability and flexibility.. though I haven't tried out OSX Server yet.... :p

Re:Switching... (3, Interesting)

pigeon (909) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356397)

Exactly what I did.. I used to use linux on my desktop, debian, used it for quite some time, but after a while I got a little annoyed that every time I wanted to do something more "Exotic" like using bluetooth, it was a lot of struggle. With os X it just works (which is not always the case with windows either). For me OS X is the ideal desktop OS, it has the unix side, so I can use the unix tools, it runs the cool audio applications like logic audio, dtp apps and videoediting apps, it;s stable, it has a great gui and it's not windows, but the virtual pc emulation is good enough if I need to run some windows app. Which never happens. I still use linux on my servers, although I am migrating some of my servers to freebsd. I mean, OS X on the desktop, freebsd/linux on the servers: life is good.

Re:Switching... (2, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356467)

the frustration of trying to get Linux working with much more modern hardware (like my NForce2 board) just made me get fed up with the whole idea ..... hardware integration is obviously perfect - stuff just works

Send $2000 to my address via PayPal and I will ship you a machine with modern hardware that works perfectly out-the-box with Linux.

Actually, don't do that - my point is that you're comparing apples (hardware+software) and oranges (just software). Apple have a distinct advantage in this area, in that nobody installs OS X on their souped up built-from-the-bits machine or cupboard box, so it's a lot easier to get hardware integration running OK.

A recent switcher (5, Interesting)

mubes (115026) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356342)

Well, I went from Linux over to OS X for my 'daytime' OS just a month ago....and upgraded to Panther as it came out too. Just thought I'd add a couple of reflections;

I'm certainly not a linux newbie, started off with a slackware 0.99pl13 and been using various disties since, and it'll still run on my servers for the forseeable future, but I have to say that as a desktop OS OSX is hard to beat.

The bundled applications in the iLife suite are really something - plugging in a video camera and spooling a tape onto disk, editing it and burning to an indexed DVD took about 2 hours. Of course, there's plenty of stuff you can't do, but the OS basically makes the easy things trivial. Most of the things iLife offer can be done via Linux, but the beauty of OS X, for me at least, is that it all works _well_enuf_ out of the box - Linux is always a few hours tinkering to get the configuration you need. It's a shame that OpenOffice isn't better integrated into the system, but that's down to all of us getting our collective fingers out and doing something about it!

With the benefit of 'fink' theres plenty of GPL software out there, so in theory at least there shouldn't be much that you can do with Linux that's not possible on OS X (OK, OK, let's not get started about Aqua), but OTOH, linux gives you a sharp set of tools for doing the more sophisticated things that are difficult to do anywhere else.

Apple PowerBook quality, in my experience, hasn't been so great - my first machine went back because it had a duff DVD drive, current one has colour deformations on the screen, but that'll get sorted over time.

In short - OS X is a great OS for those people who want to do straightforward computer things (including content manipulation) but not for the dyed-in-the-wool linux hacker. Personally, I can't see myself going back to Linux for my desktop OS...

User experience (5, Interesting)

mirko (198274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356347)

Let's make it short.
ever since I switch to Jaguar (My Panther box is somewhere between Cork (IE) and .CH) , I have been able to :
  • Inline view any of the online-available movie trailers in my browser
  • User quality music software (Reason, Logic...)
  • Use Interface Builder
  • Standby/Resume an easy way
  • Use Excel, thus discover that Microsoft API may suck but what they develop for the Mac is quality stuff
  • Use Illustrator, Flash MX...
  • Not losing time configuring my computer No need to : it definitely pleases me the way it goes
  • Use my smartmedia/pcmcia adapter without going through 20 kernel/pcmcia-cs modules recompilations (it stopped being recognized around linux2.2.18)


What I could do on Linux and still can do on OSX:
  • code in perl
  • (ab)use the command line
  • develop, test and cross-compile software for my Zaurus


What I still cannot do (I used to be able to do it under Linux) :
  • Synchronize my Zaurus to the Address Book and the Datebook


So my point is not to troll (only people who disagree but won't argue might say so) but just to express the following : Linux is cool, nice, may even be optimized but my current powerbook is way faster than the P3/600 Linux laptop I had before switching (I don't care about existing models). I also benefit from many quality software and from a very cool development environement.
Finally, I won't step back because I just enjoy typing this on the sexiest computer I ever owned (I also own an Acorn RiscPC, a NeXTstation, a Bebox, a P4 PC, a Zaurus and a Sinclair ZX81).

Re:User experience (5, Insightful)

mvdw (613057) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356364)

I'm sorry, but someone who owns a NeXT Station cannot possibly own a sexier computer, unless he also has a hexagonal, liquid-cooled couch in his basement.

Re:User experience (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356368)

In my point of view, the new AlBook is a NeXT-laptop in colour. Same but improved OS, efficient hardware.

Re:User experience (1)

mst76 (629405) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356430)

Linux is cool, nice, may even be optimized but my current powerbook is way faster than the P3/600 Linux laptop I had before switching (I don't care about existing models).
I know how you feel. MacOS is cool, nice, may even be optimized, but my current thinkpad is way faster than the 68K/16 System 7 laptop I had before switching (I don't care about existing models either).

MacOS 10.3 (-1, Troll)

rock_climbing_guy (630276) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356350)

I know that the industry players will hype MacOS 10.3 for the masses, but what I want to know is, will it run Linux?

Mac OS X is what Linux wants to be? (3, Insightful)

Hackie_Chan (678203) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356355)

This is not to troll, but this is what I've been saying to my Linux pals a couple of time when Linux vs OS X has come up.... That Linux want to become Mac OS X.

Major applications ported to it. (no WINE)

Lots of games. (not Tuxracer!)

And it's cool... (not trying to copy existing GUI's)

Re:Mac OS X is what Linux wants to be? (0, Flamebait)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356373)

.. and maybe also easy to use, yet a powerful and flexible Unix shell?

My opinion (0, Troll)

1337 Apple Zealot (720421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356357)

As someone who runs Debian Gnu/Linux on thier G5, i can give my view. I can't RTFA because its slashdotted. Keep in mind that "Linux" to the end user often means KDE/GNOME.

First of all, The Aqua GUI can get in the way after a while, and there isn't really a good option to turn it off. KDE lets you terraform the GUI quite a bit. You can emulate the Aqua look with the "Liquid" style, but most KDE distributions use "Keramik" by default. Kermamik uses rounded, gradiented buttons, along with the "Crystal" icon set by deafult, but it can be turned off and switch to more flatter and simpler styles like .net and Plastik. The gnome styles are also quite simple, with Cleanice and Smokey being the simplest. Not to mention that KDE 3.2 and Gnome 2.4 have cleaned up their act, you will never have to touch a text file again. Also the hardware dectection has become top notch excellent. Forget having to edit textfiles, forget about cdroms that don't eject, forget about modprobing, its all automagic now!

Also there are THOUSANDS more apps for linux, in Debian there are 13000(!) different packages, offering a ploethera of software, The new GIMP with a easy GUI and CMYK support, the Fast OpenOffice 1.1, the sleek totem movie player, plus much much more. Not to mention you can run more with Wine, or MacOnLinux if you use a Gx processor.

Mac OS X on the other hand has broken binary compatibillity, fries Firewird disks, Costs $129 per point release, where linux is just a simple click of the "dist upgrade" button.

I am a apple zealot, but I don't like their OS, their OS has gone down hill ever since Mac OS 8. I have ran Linux on them ever since, and after trying MacOS Jaguar and Panther, I'm glad to use Linux.

Re:My opinion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356379)

Worst troll ever.

Re:My opinion (1)

GraWil (571101) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356461)

Right, because everyone wants to spend days installing [uni-marburg.de] and weeks debugging [debian.org] an OS on their brand new Apple computer. Many of the THOUSANDS of apps for linux can be compiled on OS X either with fink [sourceforge.net] , ports [opendarwin.org] , or even a ./configure; make; make install.

If it weren't for Ben [slashdot.org] where would you be?

Old Mac users and the Finder (1)

deep square leg (703399) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356362)

Apparently old mac users don't like the new Finder. However, this is one of the reasons I have never bought a mac before OSX, as a lot of the old UI components were bloody stupid. I expect that once these users get used to the new Finder, they will see how much more sensible it is.

MacOS X and Linux are not comparable! (3, Insightful)

kompiluj (677438) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356363)

You cannot compare MacOS X with Linux, despite the fact that these operating systems are similar technologically - they are based on *NIX-like architecture.
The reason for that is the simple fact that Linux is CLI (Command Line Interface) first, GUI second. And in MacOS X is the other way round - the interface is the most important part of the OS.
Of course, you can compare the Linux kernel with MacOS kernel, Linux CLI with MacOS CLI, Linux filesystems with MacOS filesystems, and GNOME (or KDE) with MacOS X GUI, you can even compare a disto of your choice (be it RedHat, SuSE, Mandrake, Gentoo, Debian or Slackware) - with MacOS X, but not LINUX as a generic OS, for Christ sake!

external hdd (1)

dizzy tunez (89390) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356375)

linux doesn`t erase external disks [com.com] (without any announcement whatsoever), does it?

Re:external hdd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356407)

No, it just permanently destroys CD-ROM drives [slashdot.org] .

Re:external hdd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356438)

linux doesn`t erase external disks (without any announcement whatsoever), does it?

No, it just permanently fries LG's [mandrakesecure.net] cd-roms.

Re:external hdd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356484)

You know, it just might, if it was the drive's chipset [macworld.com] causing the corruption.

BSD 5? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356377)

Panther, billed as "the evolution of the species" and built on the open source Darwin project's version of BSD 5
Wow, Linux users are so smart!

Where are the Classic users clinging on? (4, Interesting)

gsdali (707124) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356386)

I'm surprised that he reckons that vast swaths of Classic users are cling gin on. Even people who were held back by Quark not upgrading quickly enough are moving now. What's more OS X can provide a very classic like user experience if you want it to.

I'm also wondering about his assessment of the speed of OS X on his G4. Now maybe 16 years of Mac use has blinded me to how slow Mac OS X really is, but I find it (on a 500Mhz G3) pretty snappy and nothing to complain about. Maybe I should see the light and install Linux.

I think not though, productivity would grind to a halt as I tried to get Linux to do the things I wanted it to.

One things is to be said, I would have never ;learnt any *nix stuff or run any X11 programmes without OS X. OpenOffice 1.0.3 is now my Office suite of choice, although the sooner they sort out the terrible human interface the better. And that's my major gripe with Linux and other *nix flavours, is the terrible human interface. Now Aqua is not perfect but one thing Apple has managed to do over the years is keep the interface consistent and persuade developers to make their interfaces consistent with the OS. What linux needs is an Open Human Interface Standard if it want's to succeed on the desktop.

Re: TONS of os9 users according to GOOGLE and Jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356452)

Steve jobs himself admitted most people use os9 and not osx.

he held up a graph in may press show that started in january 2003 and wnet to may 2003 he admitted that in January 2003 there were only 200,000 regualr osx users but by may 2003 it was 7 million using osx and 7 million using os9.

Google clicks show that requests from classic os users is still slightly more popular than the slower osx.

google zeitgeist and other click-counting sites show osx is NOT that popular, though 8 times more popular than linux surfers.

Steve jobs admitted himself osx was a failure in 2003... in JANUARY 2003, though its come around finally.

Re:Where are the Classic users clinging on? (1)

sinistral (80451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356473)

My girlfriend runs slackware 9.1 on her P4/1.6 laptop, and the GUI is *slightly* more responsive than it is on my G3/450 desktop.

He may have noticed speed issues due to the automatic defragging. Some of my MP3s really lagged out my computer when I first installed Panther.

Stability (4, Funny)

rf0 (159958) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356392)

Well he does say

"I think nothing of leaving apps and files open for days or even weeks on the Linux machine.".

Now that is cool. Nice endorsment of Linux's stability. However I still think he should say that he does save once in a while as stable as Linux is it can't survive the power cord being pulled out the back or a child putting a pop tart in the CD-ROM drive

Rus

Re:Stability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356414)

Yeah, some apps are stable, unfortunately, there is a glut of overwhelmingly poor quality (unfinished, unstable, unpolished, unintuitive, poorly documented etc.) open source apps knocked up by people who just need its functionality quickly.

The People's Front of Unix (4, Insightful)

inkswamp (233692) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356394)

This simmering OS X vs. Linux thing that seems to have emerged lately (as evidenced by more articles like the one posted) humors me and bothers me. Mac users and Linux users should band together against the common foe. Need I name names? :^)

I'd hate to see users of two fantastic operating systems like OS X and Linux turn into bickering opponents not unlike the factious Judean liberation groups in Monty Python's Life of Brian.

IMO, there's more than enough room for lots of operating systems out there. I hope some of you posting comments favoring one or the other can keep the comments purely at a technical, respectful and impersonal level.

Re:The People's Front of Unix (1)

Safiire Arrowny (596720) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356494)

I think you're imagining this feud. I don't see why an article comparing two OSes bothers you.

How about Gnome 2.4 vs KDE 3.2 vs Aqua 10.3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356401)

The kernel is irrelevent int this case, since MacOS X is limited to a subset of Apple Hardware, while Linux can run on a lot more. If it was Darwin vs Linux, then Linux would be the winner before the battle even started

So, we need to go higher up. For example lets verse these apps together from the two major "Linux" GUI's vs the "Darwin" GUI.

Finder vs Nautilus vs Konqueror
Safari vs Epiphany vs Konqueror
Itunes vs Rhythmbox vs JuK
Quicktime player vs Totem vs Kmplayer
Expose vs Virtual desktops
Aqua vs Curve vs Keramik
iChat vs Gaim vs Kopete
iphoto vs Gimp

I haven't tried OSX 10.3 yet, only Jaguar, so I'd like to know your opinions about them.

to sum it up... (1)

jlemmerer (242376) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356408)

... MacOS has a smoother user interface. If you like a crisp and clean desktop buy a mac. if you work in the design or music business buy a mac. also buy a mac if you have too much money left and want a piece of art.
on the other hand side, as to customizing mac os can not compete with linux. also, in my opinion linux has more programs that are freely available (i know that osX is a bsd derivative, but I don't know if you can compile a lot of open source code on a osX platform). I work a lot on linux and mac, and each system has its uses. if you put up a server use linux, of you want to do some design work switch to a mac.

Re:to sum it up... (1)

sinistral (80451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356485)

You can compile plenty of open source software on Mac. Everything I've tried compiling works without any Makefile hackery. This includes Apache, PHP, Perl, OpenSSH...

Well, I'm sold (3, Interesting)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356417)

Having finally had the opportunity to sit down and use a Panther machine for a decent length of time, Expose has sold me. It is, without a doubt, the best task switching method I've ever used. While the default keyboard shortcuts are terrible, remapping them to some mouse keys makes switching between tasks incredibly quick & easy. It really is a "killer feature".

Are people working on getting something similar into KDE and/or GNOME ?

Trick or Treat, Negro Style (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356418)


Trick or Treat, Negro Style

Negro corpses washed ashore
"That one looks like a dirty whore"

Drowned cadavers dark and black
"That one must be full of crack"

Dead Negro eyes blank and hazy
"This one here sure was lazy"

Bloated sambos full of bile
"Trick or Treat, Negro Style"


do not forget to honor Apples new XCODE suite (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356423)

Apple includes a full cd of developer goodies and timing analysis tools (CHUD) on the fourth cd in every box of the faster better Panther 10.3 OSX.

This Xcode compiler-IDE environment allows distributed CPU distributed Mac compiles. It also has lots of modern high tech link and compiler techniques and the cool stuff pioneered on NeXT Step in late 1990 that was partly implemented as proof of concept a few years later at Apple (DINKER - dynamic linker).

But the dynamic linker technologies in XCode allow changing and radically altering single routines while an ap is still running, without having to compile without most popular optimizations.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jun/23xcode .h tml

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/

Linux installs rarely have GUI based debuggers and GDB has some really ugly hacks to make it work with mice, but rarely are there any great low level (driver debugging) gui based debuggers on Linux.

xcode makes programmers much more productive and this artcle refused to compare compiler tools.

Naturally, mac users can also use FINK if they want to and install most all other popular open source apps without RPM hell.

Also Mac now includes full "The X Windows System" x11 on the thhird installer cd and includes "The X Windows System" sdk on the developer cd now, to aid in porting high end scientific apps momentarily before being redressed as pleasing cocoa interfaced apps.

The main reason to use Macs is that they are cheaper than intel for cpu power, that is why the number 3 spot on www.top500.org list will be the VT University 1100 node mac cluster in november when the list is publicly posted.

intel, itanium, AMD cannot compete against the dual g5 in performance and price. Especially if you need 8 gigabyte of physical RAM (Mac) and PCI-X 133Mhz 64bit slots (Mac) and 64 bit integers (mac) etc etc etc.

record breaking 16 Gflop/s per mac (with FMADD) !!!:

A fused multiply-add (FMADD) is f0 = f1 * f2 + f3, which is two floating point operations in a single opcode. Each FPU on a G5 can execute an FMADD each cycle. So:
1 FMADD per cycle = 2 flop/cycle * 2 FPUs = 4 flop/cycle * 2 CPUs = 8 flop/cycle * 2 GHz = 16 Gflop/s per 2999 dollar list price mac with the fast DVD burner and pci-x slots and 8 gig ram limit and 4 S-ATA drive connectors, OPTICAL SPDIF in-out, usb 2, firewire 800, etc etc etc

Do not get me wrong.... LINUX is interesting, and almsot became popular, but most the people I know that supported linux that have jobs adn incomes all switched over to macs even before the dual g5 shipped and many more have switched to mac since. They run linux servers but use macs for enjoyment, and personal productivity.

Some also run macs as servers but not the ones taht have no need for science or no need of apples dirt cheap cheap Fibre channel 14 drive raid array. (xRAID).

Ah well... i wish this article was written from a DEVELOPERS point of view.

people fought the mouse from apple for years and fought icons and scrollable resizable windows.. the Mac won that war and now even pc users use MS Windows (a copy descended from the Mac GUI pioneered on apples September 1983 Lisa computer)

people fought mice and people fight osx but the osx will prevail

But freebsd, openbsd, netbsd all keep apple honest and on their toes.

Linux peopel never remember linux was a ripoff of MINUX source code originally, and a rippoff of GNU tools), True its come a long way in recent years, but a lot of those types of hobbyists ARE buying macs.

Xcode is one of the reasons.

Linux volume/homedir encrypted containers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356456)

One thing that caught my eye in the review was this:
Notable additions to Panther include ... FileVault, which offers 128-bit AES home-directory encryption/decryption on the fly
I've always wanted something like this for Linux, something comparable to PGPdisk on Windows or (if I'm reading the description correctly) FileVault in Panther. I want to be able to set up an encrypted volume which requires a password to mount, and is read/writeable seamlessly as "just another disk." So far all I've been able to find is Rubberhose, which is over my head, and is only in alpha anyway.

Can someone give me some pointers? Is there a good "on-the-fly" encrypted volume utility for Linux?

Mac User since 9 (3, Informative)

bbtom (581232) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356463)

I've used Mac since 9, and upgraded to X at around 10.1. Before that I used 95, and attempted Linux (but my shitty old computer didn't want to play - damn CD-Rom drives of that time).

I love 10.1 (and hopefully 10.3 once I can find 70 to drop for the students edition) - I can do 'boring' stuff on it, like run Word or Powerpoint. I can do arty / photographic things on there (Photoshop), and also run Apache, MySQL, PHP/Perl to develop websites.

In addition thanks to Fink I can use debian style package management tools with ease. Damn good OS.

I iknow lots of linux bugs and they are whacky (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356464)

I got demoted as a troll for posting FACTUAL information, so i will post these facts again but request that no one bother commenting on it. Without comments, and without seeking comments on these informative facts i am BY DEFINITION not being a troll because a troll implies trolling for responses and i formally request NO RESPONSES to these facts.

I know lots of nasty linux bugs, few mac bugs
For example a relatively modern virgin install of full redhat linux with gnome could be make to soft-hang byt copyung a directory into its decendent further down the hierarchy... infinte recursion.
HAH! no version of any mac os allowed that idiotic bug and used checks to prevent it.
There are plenty more lazy shortcuts riddled through linux. The most glaring are the counltess places where no error detection allows bugs to become more dramatic. Fro example in some linux kernels there was assumption that certain writes to the boot device never fail to write, but had no feedback.
I do not care.
I use classic mac, and windows and sometimes osx, and think trying to comapre linux vs freebsd based mac is pointless. The mac will always have 8 times the market share and countless shrinkwrapped commercial apps.

Libux was predicted to overtake mac 5 years ago and it never happened then and will also not ever happen in another 5 years, if ever.
FreeBSD mac OSX won the race. and most of the source code is open.

Apple just released the source to darwin 7.0 (full source to most of the parts of mac os that count) and did it coinciding with the release of the mac.

again... this is not a troll, so quite marking it as such, because i request no replies to my comments and this is an informative post.

There is NOT ONE lie in it and if a Linuxfanboy wants to keep modding down FACTS then they merely are reinforcing why people are switching from linux to mac in droves.

Thanks.

I hope they port MacOSX to PCs soon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356477)

It feels like my laptops [malefactor.org] are just going to waste with stupid windows and linux on them.

Amazing Apple XCode was not highlighted !?!?! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356488)

Oddly this post was marked as a -1 troll even though its 100% on topic (#7356423), 100% truthful adn information packed. Please stop MOD ABUSE. I had to repost it.

Apple includes a full cd of developer goodies and timing analysis tools (CHUD) on the fourth cd in every box of the faster better Panther 10.3 OSX.

This Xcode compiler-IDE environment allows distributed CPU distributed Mac compiles. It also has lots of modern high tech link and compiler techniques and the cool stuff pioneered on NeXT Step in late 1990 that was partly implemented as proof of concept a few years later at Apple (DINKER - dynamic linker).

But the dynamic linker technologies in XCode allow changing and radically altering single routines while an ap is still running, without having to compile without most popular optimizations.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jun/23xcode .h tml

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/

Linux installs rarely have GUI based debuggers and GDB has some really ugly hacks to make it work with mice, but rarely are there any great low level (driver debugging) gui based debuggers on Linux.

xcode makes programmers much more productive and this artcle refused to compare compiler tools.

Naturally, mac users can also use FINK if they want to and install most all other popular open source apps without RPM hell.

Also Mac now includes full "The X Windows System" x11 on the thhird installer cd and includes "The X Windows System" sdk on the developer cd now, to aid in porting high end scientific apps momentarily before being redressed as pleasing cocoa interfaced apps.

The main reason to use Macs is that they are cheaper than intel for cpu power, that is why the number 3 spot on www.top500.org list will be the VT University 1100 node mac cluster in november when the list is publicly posted.

intel, itanium, AMD cannot compete against the dual g5 in performance and price. Especially if you need 8 gigabyte of physical RAM (Mac) and PCI-X 133Mhz 64bit slots (Mac) and 64 bit integers (mac) etc etc etc.

record breaking 16 Gflop/s per mac (with FMADD) !!!:

A fused multiply-add (FMADD) is f0 = f1 * f2 + f3, which is two floating point operations in a single opcode. Each FPU on a G5 can execute an FMADD each cycle. So:

1 FMADD per cycle = 2 flop/cycle * 2 FPUs = 4 flop/cycle * 2 CPUs = 8 flop/cycle * 2 GHz = 16 Gflop/s per 2999 dollar list price mac with the fast DVD burner and pci-x slots and 8 gig ram limit and 4 S-ATA drive connectors, OPTICAL SPDIF in-out, usb 2, firewire 800, etc etc etc

Do not get me wrong.... LINUX is interesting, and almsot became popular, but most the people I know that supported linux that have jobs adn incomes all switched over to macs even before the dual g5 shipped and many more have switched to mac since. They run linux servers but use macs for enjoyment, and personal productivity.

Some also run macs as servers but not the ones taht have no need for science or no need of apples dirt cheap cheap Fibre channel 14 drive raid array. (xRAID).

Ah well... i wish this article was written from a DEVELOPERS point of view.

people fought the mouse from apple for years and fought icons and scrollable resizable windows.. the Mac won that war and now even pc users use MS Windows (a copy descended from the Mac GUI pioneered on apples September 1983 Lisa computer)

people fought mice and people fight osx but the osx will prevail

But freebsd, openbsd, netbsd all keep apple honest and on their toes.

Linux people never remember linux was a ripoff of MINUX source code originally, and a rippoff of GNU tools), True its come a long way in recent years, but a lot of those types of hobbyists ARE buying macs.

Xcode is one of the reasons.

I formally request that no one bother commenting on this post. Without comments, and without seeking comments on these informative facts i am BY DEFINITION not being a troll because a troll implies trolling for responses and i formally request NO RESPONSES to these facts.
thanks.

More is not (always) better, better is better (1)

skurken (58262) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356492)

I'm a regular Linux user and have been since 1994 but for the first time I'm considering switching my fav os for something else, MacOS X. Why? BETTER apps. Not more, not freer, not more open source, but better, more thought through applications (and that includes the GUI).

I think Nautilus is swell and the whole GNOME desktop is a great accomplishment for the open source community, but it's nowhere near the refinement of the MacOS GUI. The diffrences are not obvious right away since most people will just try to use the GUI as they would use Windows or GNOME. This will yield a working GUI, but you need to understand the MacOS philosophy in much the same manner as you must understand the terminal in order to get any effective work done. When you do, there is no turning back.

Oh, another thing: cut-and-paste, drag-n-drop, hardware acceleration, plug-and-play, third party driver support... those are working concepts in MacOS X. I miss that in Linux.

Whatever! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7356495)

I think this topic is so passe it's not even wort writing a decent reply too. Perhaps you should quit trolling forums and actually report some news. However, OS X is alot better as far as ease of use than any linux system will ever be. Every Linux distro I have used has always required an implied knowledge of *nix. OS X is like linux for dummies. However, it fails in the fact that it doesn't have alot of X11/GNU software and those bastards at apple don't want to use MIT shared memory in their mach kernel.

Another great review (1)

Schnitzel The Viper (706445) | more than 10 years ago | (#7356496)

Here's another great review [zutman.be] of Panther. Translation is available here [worldlingo.com] .
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