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Microsoft's new CLI

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the everybody-loves-the-cli dept.

Windows 688

An anonymous reader writes "Months ago a story ran regarding a job advert at Microsoft for a developer role to lead the work on a new generation of command line interface. It has now been disclosed at the PDC and its name is MSH (Microsoft SHell), codenamed MONAD. Here is the best description so far."

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688 comments

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CLIt (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357562)

That's what it chould be called!

Re:CLIt (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357572)

Well, MONAD does rhyme with gonad...

Re:CLIt (0, Funny)

Smidge204 (605297) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357610)

Well they're close... just one letter away from "Gonad"...

=Smidge=

Redundant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357725)

The first post pointing the rhyme out is moderated as Redundant, and the second is Funny? WTF??

CLI ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357565)

Cunt
Lickers
Igloo ??

Re:CLI ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357650)

You spent time thinking that up?


p>The only thing worse than a troll is a troll without wit.

fnar (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357566)

narber

microsoft chupa (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357574)

microsoft chupa

so, when will we see GNU's version (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357578)

named GONAD ?

Re:so, when will we see GNU's version (2, Funny)

EvilTwinSkippy (112490) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357831)

GONAD object network architecture doohicky.

let the jokes begin (-1, Funny)

squarefish (561836) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357581)

I've always felt trapped in Microsoft Hell
rhymes with GONAD!
and of course, my favorite song [epitonic.com]

Maybe they should call back.... (-1, Redundant)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357582)

Some of their old Xenix [wikipedia.org] developers.

Better yet, maybe SCO could lend them one or two developers in return for all that money they're getting from M$.

Re:Maybe they should call back.... (2, Funny)

rylin (688457) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357813)

SCO still have developers?

Re:Maybe they should call back.... (3, Funny)

EvilTwinSkippy (112490) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357841)

...maybe SCO could lend them one or two developers...

I don't think a ritual sacrifice counts as lending.

MSH? (5, Funny)

KDan (90353) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357589)

Ranks right along SHT as a crappy acronym. The first thing I would think of when seeing MSH is MicroSoft Hell, not Microsoft Shell...

Daniel

This seems familiar... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357591)

But hey, it's original if there's the "Micrsoft" brand name stuck somewhere in there, right?

Very Nice (1, Troll)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357595)

A new command line for Windows will be great for anybody that wants to do a bit of scripting on Windows.

The problem is that .msh files will be exectuted by default from the mail reader, the web browser, and the media player. Virus writers will be the first people adopt the scripts, and be the only ones to use them because Microsoft won't advertise, support, document, or otherwise promote the technology. As a result, administrators will have to find a way to turn of .msh scripting and nobody will be able to use it anyway.

Re:Very Nice (5, Insightful)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357628)

Anyone who wants to do a bit of scripting on Windows has vbscript, javascript, perl, tcl/tk, and a plethora of other options.

This is going to be for headless servers. So you can ssh into a box and administer it remotely, or through a dumb terminal on a serial port, etc, etc..

There's no good reason your mailserver or each machine in your SQL Server farm needs a GUI.

Re:Very Nice (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357694)

A new command line for Windows will be great for anybody that wants to do a bit of scripting on Windows.

Yes, it always felt "wrong" somehow to use a real, proven scripting language like Python on Windows. I guess I was just waiting for some new language that was designed by the whizkids at redmond, by microsofties, for microsofties.

Perhaps now I can rewrite some of those 2000-line BAT and CMD files in another scripting language that runs *native* on windows. Accept no substitutes, only the microsofties know what is *really* good for us.

:D (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357771)

"a real, proven scripting language like Python"

Bahahahahhahaha

You made my morning, Thanks!

Re:Very Nice (5, Insightful)

Kingpin (40003) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357707)

You get rated 'Insightful' for stating what OpenSource zealots hope. What if this shell actually knocks the socks off *sh?

What if Longhorn does indeed provide more security, not only in default settings, but more inherently in the OpenSource?

Do you think the average developer/manager at MS is dumber than your average OS participant? (This is not a tric.. Damn, I'm falling in myself..)

But really - if "we" are to compete, we will have to steal the ideas that "work" from MS camp, just as they're "stealing" "our" ideas that WORK.

Linux is narrowing the gap to MS on the desktop (albeit slowly), and MS is narrowing the gap to Unix on eg. CLI, stability and security. Their software matures too, you know..

And then there's Apple. They make fun stuff. The are not afraid to invent, and they have the money to launch stuff that the OpenSource movement cannot. I don't quite know where to place them compared to OpenSource and MS.

Re:Very Nice (3, Funny)

AllUsernamesAreGone (688381) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357734)

"What if Longhorn does indeed provide more security, not only in default settings, but more inherently in the OpenSource?"

Then we'll finally know that Duke Nukem Forever is about to go gold.

Re:Very Nice (1)

Kingpin (40003) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357743)


Well.. more inherently in the OpenSource, well THAT OS should have been OperatingSystem..
You get the point :)

The difference: (5, Informative)

moogla (118134) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357777)

msh exploits the transparency and "reflection" abilities of the object oriented features of the OS.

Read down the article for details on how they can now do things like mount the registry as a drive and walk it like a filesystem. Yegads!

bash (or some sh-variant) would have to be adapted to know specific things about linux to compete at that feature level, but it would become non-portable.

This is what the new sysfs interface is supposed to help with. Still, bash isn't object oriented (yet). The closest thing would be like perlsh.

I think people don't give MS enough credit for where they stand even today, frankly.

Re:Very Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357794)

What if this shell actually knocks the socks off *sh?

What if Longhorn does indeed provide more security, not only in default settings, but more inherently in the OpenSource?


What kind of freakin' fairyland are you living in? -- Frank Ramano

Re:Very Nice (0, Flamebait)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357763)

A new command line for Windows will be great for anybody that wants to do a bit of scripting on Windows.

Yes, it always felt "wrong" somehow to use a real, proven scripting language like Python on Windows. I guess I was just waiting for some new language that was designed by the whizkids at redmond, by microsofties, for microsofties.

Perhaps now I can rewrite some of those 2000-line BAT and CMD files in another scripting language that runs *native* on windows. Accept no substitutes, only the microsofties know what is *really* good for us.

(Yes, this is a repost, I screwed up w/ the other version).

Re:Very Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357805)

Why don't you go back to writing BASH viri that do things like set /etc/motd to:


This virus was written by a Slashdot Karma Whore

Re:Very Nice (2, Interesting)

ElectronicElf (710528) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357814)

The part that scared me is:

The example I was shown was that the registry was mapped to a drive, and you could navigate it like any other drive, with the results being returned from the commandlet as .NET objects!

Just what is needed, an easier way to corrupt the registry.

Original Article (-1, Offtopic)

Pingular (670773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357596)

The Redmond, Wash.-based software giant said it is working through ECMA International, the Geneva-based standards organization, to push the development of a standard set of language extensions that will create a binding between the International Standards Organization (ISO) standard C++ programming language and Microsoft's Common Language Infrastructure (CLI).

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Microsoft and ECMA officials said with a standard binding for C++ and the CLI developers will be better able to take advantage of the .Net platform and key features of the CLI. The binding will open developers up to more modern features, such as garbage collection and security.

Herb Sutter, Microsoft program manager and convener of the ISO C++ standards committee, said C++ is the most widely used cross-platform, vendor-neutral programming language, based on studies and job listings.

The CLI is a runtime environment that supports multiple languages and provides support for many of the modern features Microsoft wants to extend to C++ developers, including garbage collection, generics and others. ECMA already has standardized the CLI as well as Microsoft's C# language.

Sutter said Microsoft ships a set of extensions to C++ that enable .Net development for programmers, but there is a need for more support and a need for a standard.

"I'm an architect responsible for leading the team to make C++ work better with .Net," Sutter said. "To us, C++ is a very important language and we want it to be complete."

"C++ is the language most of our customers are using to write code today for Windows," Sutter added. "It's a very strong and mature language and it's widely used internally, inside Microsoft. And because C++ is so strategic we need to make sure we deliver on the promises [of .Net] so that you can write well for the platform with all the languages [supported by the Common Language Runtime]."

Sutter added that Microsoft has not done as good a job on managed C++ "as we felt we ought to."

Meanwhile, ECMA last week launched a new task group, known as TG5, in its programming language technical committee to oversee the development of the C++ binding. Sutter said the group will have its first meeting at the beginning of December, and he expects to have all the technical work for the standard completed by next September and a standard by the end of 2004. Microsoft, along with Dinkumware Ltd. and Edison Design Group Inc. developed a draft of the standard.

JP LeBlanc, vice president and general manager of the mobile and C++ solutions group at Borland Software Corp., Scotts Valley, Calif., said, Borland is very supportive of Microsoft's effort to push a C++ CLI binding standard through ECMA.

"We are a big believer in standards and by Microsoft taking this step it will help us better support their platform for C++ developers," LeBlanc said. "The significance for C++ developers is big. A huge problem of C++ on Windows in the past has not only been conformance to the C++ language specification but also binary compatibility and interoperability between the compilers and their associated C++ runtime environments."

However, LeBlanc said: "This standard needs to be explicit and complete so that Borland, a leading C++ solutions company, and other C++ technology vendors, can deliver a fully compatible and interoperable development environment to Microsoft's offering to developers. In addition, the specification must continue to support source code portability of C++ applications to platforms other than Microsoft's Windows [.NET platform]."

"CLI was designed to be a platform to support many different programming languages. But sometimes people have the impression that C# is the 'preferred' or 'best' language for programming on a CLI platform," said Thomas Plum, a C++ developer and vice president of technology and engineering at Plum Hall Inc. of Kamuela, Hawaii. The significance of [the ECMA standard] to C++ programmers is that it shows a commitment by Microsoft, and serious interest by other companies, in making C++ a first-class language for building applications on the CLI C++ platform."

Re:Original Article (1)

Nadir (805) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357686)

This is not informative at all. This guy just copied an article about the Common Language Infrastructure, but the CLI referred to in the article is about a Command Line Interface. Moderate the parent down please.

hah. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357598)

Take that, dirty Linux hippies! Take that, Thieving Macintosh Republicans!

Seriously, this is a wonderful thing. The shell has been one of the most lacking areas under Windows. I don't know how many times I've dropped into Cygwin or, before that, wasted time writing little C apps just to do basic bulk renaming operations and the likes.

Any word on whether they'll standardize the environment across all Windows products, or is this likely to be a server product only? Will this be the standard shell replacement, or will we now have command.com, cmd.exe and newthing.exe all living in parallel? I like choices, but Windows apps' ad hoc use of largeley-incompatible command.com and cmd.exe is already a source of pain.

Re:hah. (1)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357758)

Um... you post anonymously here, the exact same post you put in the writeup? What's the point? Everyone is still going to know who to hack. [livejournal.com]

Re:hah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357783)

I'm just a lamer who copied it from there, and to watch if some moderators acually modded it up. They did, and I'm not the guy who wrote it originally.

RiscOS (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357604)

One last thing: anything can be mapped to a drive, and drives don't just have to be letters.

Reminds me of this 15 year old Acorn technology which has always allowed one to develop its own filer modules to access whichever file or device type as if it were a directory.

Will the GNU version.... (-1, Redundant)

desslok (7863) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357609)

...be called GONAD?

MSH... (5, Funny)

Valar (167606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357619)

I saw MSH and immediatly thought MS Hell, not MS Shell.

Perhaps it should be MSSH?

And I'm not bashing either.

Re:MSH... (5, Funny)

JPelorat (5320) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357663)

"And I'm not bashing either. "

da dum tcsh!

Re:MSH... (1)

MikeD83 (529104) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357675)

In my opinion MSH, and particularly MSSH sound too close to their UNIX kin. We wouldn't want anyone to confuse a microsoft scripting engine with UNIX's SSH.

Or even MOSH (1)

temporalillusion (688393) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357688)

MicrosOft SHell More pronounceable than MSH...

3 months... (5, Interesting)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357621)

...that's the time before we get the first MSH viruses.

Am I being cynical when I think this just looks like VB for Consoles?

Re:3 months... (1)

Shalda (560388) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357808)

Yes, you are being cynical. It's much closer to C# :) As the article mentions, it's basicly a .NET frontend to common shell tasks, which could be really damn cool.

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MSH? (-1, Redundant)

Libor Vanek (248963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357631)

MSH - doesn't it mean MicroSoft Hell?

Microsoft's Hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357685)

MSH - doesn't it mean MicroSoft Hell?

[grammarnazi]
you forgot the "'s" in the middle
[/grammernazi]

Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357633)

I'd give up my middle nut for a shell like that!

this has a sister product, you know (4, Funny)

NotAnotherReboot (262125) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357642)

Along with MONAD, Microsoft is also developing MENIS, the Microsoft Enhanced Networking Interface Solution. MENIS and MONAD products will be tightly integrated.

Re:this has a sister product, you know (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357705)

So now we have the complement for GONAD (GNUs MONAD)!!! PENIS!!!

Re:this has a sister product, you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357711)

Actually the tight MENIS/MONAD integration will only be available in Windows 2007 (codenamed MAGINA)

Re:this has a sister product, you know (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357721)

...and is will likely be very MUSSY

Re:this has a sister product, you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357731)

And by the look of it GNU will be coming out with

Gonad and Penis :D

Bob

Re:this has a sister product, you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357792)

will they be sold as a single package?

Re:this has a sister product, you know (2, Funny)

jsupreston (626100) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357835)

And then they will probably redo XENIX to run on the NT Family as MUNT (Microsoft Unix on NT).

Re:this has a sister product, you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357836)

I'm pretty sure that would be a *brother* product.

I guess no more incorrect names. (1)

Fullmetal Edward (720590) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357645)

I guess Microsoft works is now going to be called "Microsoft - use a type writer" and they'll rename their Mac areas as "firing stations".

Now if only the RIAA would take the same idea and rename their lawsuits "Useless wastes of time".

Stop Bitching damnit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357647)

Isn't Microsoft allowed to change event its proprietary products?

so stop bitching

yea... but who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357649)

hmmm new feature + crappy os = worthless piece of crap that is completely unusable and is also overpriced for your convience

Just wait for iShell. (2, Funny)

1337 Apple Zealot (720421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357653)

Apple will surley make something for 10.4, called iSHELL, complete with anti-alaised fonts, tabbed shells, alpha blending, PRESS F9 and see all your shells at once, and of course support for throbbing Aqua buttons.

This made me laugh .... (2, Interesting)

Alranor (472986) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357657)

From the comments after the linked article :-

Finally a real Next Gen command shell... And one that looks to put the others to shame.

Nice leep frog MS...


Can anyone who knows more about these things than I explain exactly how this puts the various Unix shells to shame?

Re:This made me laugh .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357679)

Unix shell commands return text. This returns objects. Objects are cleverer and more useful than trying to parse random text as they carry meaning as well as data.

Re:This made me laugh .... (4, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357733)

You can do WinFS filtering through the "|" symbol. MONAD can also export natively to: HTML, XML, Excel, or plain command text in either a Table or List format.

Sure beats the hell out of using obscure grep commands to parse a blob of ascii.

And....the commandlets are developer friendly. You can make a commandlet by inheriting from the commandlet base class, and adding attribute tags to the public properties to make them parameters to the commandlet. .NET handles whether the user types "-?" or "/?", so you don't have to care anymore!

Sounds pretty easy for a developer to extend.

This is a good thing for MS to do. The slashbots are always whining about how MS takes standards and breaks them for it's own gain. Rather than taint your precious bash or perl, they started from scratch.

Re:This made me laugh .... (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357774)

Especially looking at the horrible syntax in the example. I mean what is wrong with:
foreach token ( `cat $file` )
do
do stuff with $token
done

Even worse, the example code only covered the first line of my example.

Re:This made me laugh .... (2, Insightful)

nyteroot (311287) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357778)

You should read the article, if it actually lives up to everything he's talking about, that shell will in fact be pretty damn cool. Returning objects instead of text is a very neat idea, and I'm rather dreading facing the resident Microsoft Weenie on my hall if he catches wind of this..

Following Free Software (2, Interesting)

Gago (720274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357659)

Yet another feature ....
The only thing that I would find revelant is that MS is definitly thinking in terms of "they have neat shells in Linux, how can we have something that stands the comparison ?". After Apple including KHTML and GNU parts in its operating system, it seems that Free Software are really getting the lead in software industry.

so much for old technology (4, Interesting)

thoolihan (611712) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357662)

It's interesting how the story changes. Ballmer would refer to GNU/Linux(especially elements like the use of the shell) as 1980's technology. Now there are making their own.

Maybe users will be able to help themself a little bit...
killall DRM && killall clippy && killall klez
-t

Re:so much for old technology (0, Offtopic)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357782)

killall DRM && killall clippy && killall klez

Try that on Solaris sometime. If possible, one of your most heavily used production servers.

Nothing new except overkill (4, Interesting)

Verteiron (224042) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357665)

From the article:

One last thing: anything can be mapped to a drive, and drives don't just have to be letters. (Ok, I lied - that was 2) The example I was shown was that the registry was mapped to a drive, and you could navigate it like any other drive, with the results being returned from the commandlet as .NET objects!

The user has been able to map a filesystem to a folder rather than a drive letter since at least Windows 2000, and I think it was possible even under NT4. Nothing new there.

The registry (along with many other things) can be mapped as part of the filesystem fairly easily, as demonstrated by this 264kB DLL file [regxplor.com] .

And as for returning search results as .NET objects? This seems rather like using a baseball bat to swat a fly...

Re:Nothing new except overkill (2, Informative)

SteveX (5640) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357735)

The 264kb DLL file is an Explorer add-on that lets you browse the registry using the Explorer. It doesn't let you do anything with the Registry from the command line.

Re:Nothing new except overkill (1)

Zak3056 (69287) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357807)

The user has been able to map a filesystem to a folder rather than a drive letter since at least Windows 2000, and I think it was possible even under NT4. Nothing new there

DOS2 included the "assign" and "subst" commands that allowed one to map a drive to a directory, or vice versa.

Re:Nothing new except overkill (1)

SteveX (5640) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357842)

Sure but only within the filesystem.. I think what they're talking about here is more like the Linux /proc filesystem, where you can make things other than filesystems look like a filesystem.

What a coincidence (-1, Troll)

Tim C (15259) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357666)

I was chatting with a friend on ICQ only this morning about OSX, and how cool it looks, and how tempting buying an Apple machine would be, if only we had the money.

Then I remarked that Longhorn could well also bring some very good stuff - after all, Win2k and XP are pretty-much rock solid as far as desktop expectations and demands go, and Longhorn's 2006 shipping date gives MS plenty of time to learn from OSX's example.

Looks like maybe I was right.

Re:What a coincidence (1)

treuf (99331) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357765)

Or maybe looks more like MS has a nice a vaporware to prevent you switching to whatever else you would like (be it OSX or linux or bsd or whatever non ms)

The names (2, Funny)

Samus (1382) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357690)

Whats with these names lately? It seems like MS is dropping u's left and right. First the drop the u out of WinFX and now MSH.

Script language from command line? Hmmm..... (-1, Flamebait)

AWhistler (597388) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357701)

That sounds like what I used to be able to do in 1979 on my TRS-80 model I where I could type in a whole line of BASIC commands, separated by ":", press enter and have it executed immediately.

And how is that different that the "while 1; do BLAH; done" in current shells?

Re:Script language from command line? Hmmm..... (1)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357852)

Your TRS80 wasn't multitasking. BASIC could only control itself, not other programs. Shell languages allow you to kick off , control and kill
other processes either on the command line or in a script program. And if you have to have the usefulness of that explained to you
then I suggest you stick with your Tandy.

Monad = Ultimate? (2, Insightful)

zetes (110457) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357708)

According to this page [newadvent.org] , it means "ultimate, indivisible unit". Interesting. :)

Z

Perl (2, Interesting)

martin (1336) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357716)

Most M$ admins I know (and they started out as *nix admins) use perl for their scripting on both O/S's.

Will be interesting to see how the GUI generation get on with a proper scritping language.

MS's CLI preview (5, Funny)

mopslik (688435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357719)

C:\> winword.exe
.___
// \
||@@|
|| ||
|\_||
\__/
_||_

It looks like you're trying to run a program. Would you like me to start WINWORD.EXE? [Y/N]

Re:MS's CLI preview (2, Funny)

SamBeckett (96685) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357795)

four words: hill air ee us

Wasnt this done before? (0, Troll)

adeyadey (678765) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357720)

With something called DOS..

Hell? (0, Redundant)

infinite9 (319274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357723)

MSH (Microsoft SHell),

Did anyone else read this as Microsoft's Hell?

MONAD (1, Interesting)

OneSmartFellow (716217) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357740)

is already a computing term

http://www.abercrombiegroup.co.uk/~noel/research/m onads.html

Is already a mathematical term

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Monad.html

and who knows what else, surprised MS didn't choose another word they could Copyright, and TradeMark

The Best of All Possible Worlds (5, Interesting)

Raedwald (567500) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357741)

'Monads' are part of Leibnitz's philosophy [www.ucd.ie] , which Voltaire [lucidcafe.com] famously satirised in Candide [literature.org] with the figure of Dr. Pangloss, who resolutely maintained that we live in 'this, the best of all possible worlds' despite a succession of disasters that would convince any sane man that he was wrong.

How very suitable for a Microsoft product.

Only a matter of time. (2, Interesting)

obfuscated (258084) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357742)

It's only a matter of time until some thoughtful person writes enough scripts to make MSH operate like Bash.

.Net? Hey Miguel! (0, Redundant)

Linux_ho (205887) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357757)

Since query results are .Net objects, maybe we can build a GNU shell like this based on Mono. Lessee, what to call it... MONAD... GNU... GONAD!

GONAD will be pure innovation. What's that you say? Linux has had a powerful programmable shell with consistent behavior for over ten years? Oh MAN, I thought we had something NEW here.

What about bash under Cygwin? (1, Interesting)

mcbunny29 (583989) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357761)


Why not simply use bash under Cygwin to get all the functionality of a decent shell?

Who need's another shell?

Or maybe MS could natively support unix bash under Windows.

Re:What about bash under Cygwin? (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357790)

I hate to break it to you, but bash sucks. Some of the features in this sparse little abstract sound really nice. Exporting a list command to spreadsheets, .NET objects, etc, beats the hell out of obscure ls | grep {'jibber $!9)20 jabber'} commands.

Who need's another shell?

Tell that to the unix nerds. bash, ksh, csh, perl, python, tcl, etc etc etc...

Re:What about bash under Cygwin? (1)

Torinaga-Sama (189890) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357820)

That would make my life much, much easier.

Microsoft has come a long way (4, Interesting)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357773)

For a long time, the windows command line was a joke. It was basically DOS-in-a-box, capable of running programs, and that was about it. Sure, you had net.exe and a few tools borrowed from the unix world.

Recently, Microsoft has actually begun to produce command line tools for system operations, controlling your services, networks, policies, and registry from the command prompt. But they still have a long way to go, these features are poorly documented (the policy editor's help lists a subset of all the policies you can edit with it. The KB article on it basically is a copy-paste of the help message, with explanations of the policynames provided), typically cryptic, and still don't provide the full set of features.

They may have come a long way, but they have a long way to go. And remember, this is just playing catchup.

Re:Microsoft has come a long way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357837)

Recently, Microsoft has actually begun to produce command line tools for system operations, controlling your services, networks, policies, and registry from the command prompt.

If by recently you mean since 1995 or so then you are quite correct. Seriously, all these tools have been part of the resource kit for Windows NT for years.

Better served by a standard *nix shell (5, Interesting)

ezavada (91752) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357775)

Microsoft is the only major OS that doesn't have a standard *nix style shell. The popularity of cygwin for Windows developers shows that there's significant demand for it. Imagine how much nicer it would be if instead of trying to "leep frog"[sic] the Unix shell they just adopted cygwin.

Re:Better served by a standard *nix shell (1)

bpechter (2885) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357844)

That may be true.

Does this look like DEC VAX DCL or what?

$p = get/process FileName
$p[5].ToString()
foreach ($p) { $p.ToString() }

of course... (1)

painehope (580569) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357784)

Ximian will soon announce a syntax-compatible shell, codenamed DeezNuts.

MSH? (0, Redundant)

dauvis (631380) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357796)

I would have thought MSH == MicroSoft Hell

*Text of want ad* (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357819)

Wanted: DOS expert.

Microsoft is developing a new operating system code named CLI. The release name of the project is expected to be "DOS NT".

We give extra consideration to programmers of command line operating systems. SUNOS, HPUX, BSD, AIX programmers especially welcome Linux programmers best keep that experience to themselves.

Please apply at jobs.microsoft.com if you feel that you qualify.

codenamed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7357824)

MYNAD ?

WTF?

Monads are an old philosophical concept (4, Informative)

Cranky_92109 (414726) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357828)

Although it's easy to make the gonad jokes, the concept of monads have a long history [newadvent.org] in metaphysics dating back to the greeks. Monads were central to the philosophy of Liebniz [utm.edu] , the co-discoverer of calculus.

Favorite comments from the Article: (1)

bshroyer (21524) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357830)


re: Codename "MONAD" 10/29/2003 5:18 PM David McGhee

What we will need next is intellisense for the command line!
re: Codename "MONAD" 10/30/2003 1:33 PM Jason Nadal

Yes we do! They're working on the UI last, from what they said in the breakout session on the topic. Intellisense was mentioned, and they do want to do it.

I really thought that the first post was sarcarstic, until I read the hordes of "Me Too" replies that followed. Call me crazy, but the last thing I want is Clippy monitoring my typing in tcsh.
re: Codename "MONAD" 10/31/2003 9:27 AM McGroarty
Take that, dirty Linux hippies! Take that, Thieving Macintosh Republicans! Seriously, this is a wonderful thing. The shell has been one of the most lacking areas under Windows. I don't know how many times I've dropped into Cygwin or, before that, wasted time writing little C apps just to do basic bulk renaming operations and the likes.

Cool! Now Mac users are Republicans by default. I didn't know that. :)

I cut my teeth at the DOS prompt. As a *nix user for the past five years, I now understand the power of scripting that can't be accomplished in a GUI, and isn't possible in a .BAT file. I agree with the poster above, and posit that MONAD will be a truly Good Thing (tm) for Microsoft.

MASH (1)

Lothar (9453) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357838)

That shoulds like a much better name.

awesome.. (1)

Suppafly (179830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7357845)

Nice to see that Microsoft is continuing the stupid naming scheme they started back in the old days with dosshell. Now they will have Microsofts-Hell also.
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