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GNU-Darwin: Three Years of Free Software Activism

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the motivations-and-results dept.

Apple 374

JigSaw writes "The GNU-Darwin Distribution is a free BSD operating system and a popular source of free software for Mac OS X and Darwin-x86 users, but it is also a platform for digital activism. Founder Michael L. Love wrote an editorial speaking about the roots, goals, problems and just about everything about GNU-Darwin. Free Software is at the core of GNU-Darwin and also anything political that has an impact on digital and even rights. Is this the first truly politically oriented BSD OS?" Nope.

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Don't forget... (-1)

SCO$699FeeTroll (695565) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383190)

...to pay your $699 licensing fee you cock-smoking teabaggers.

Re:Don't forget... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383199)


Although my precious and limited time (I am an IT-outsourcing consultant [rent-a-gook.info] ) did not allow me to read the interview [1415926535...4944592.jp] , I am sure it involves something that

  • does run Linux [microsoft.com]

  • proofs that Mirosoft is making bad software [kernel.org]

  • shows how stealing intellectual property simply cannot be wrong ("Actually, it is not stealing") because every fucking idiot [aol.com] does it

  • assumes that any law preventing child molesters [cmdrtaco.net] from distributing their filthy shit is an attack on Free Speech

  • promotes homosexual [slashdot.org] , interracial or interspecial cohibitation

Kathleen Fent is great in bed (-1)

(TK2)Dessimat0r (669581) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383192)

-INSANE-PRIEST--INSANE-PRIEST--INSAN
I___________,.-------.,____________I Slashdot
N______,;~'_____________'~;,_______N fucking
S____,;____LINUX FUCKING____;,_____S sucks
A___;___SUCKS, YOU FUCKING____;____A
N__,'____SLASHDOT RETARDS.____',___N Rob Malda
E_,;___GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD___;,__E is a
-_;_;______._____l_____.______;_;__- cocksucker
P_l_;____________l____________;_l__P
R_l__`/~"_____~"_._"~_____"~\'__l__R Slashdot
I_l__~__,-~~~^~,_l_,~^~~~-,__~__l__I fucking
E__l___l________}:{__ (O) _l___l___E sucks
S__l___l_ (o) _/_l_\_______!___l___S
T__.~__(__,.--"_.^._"--.,__)__~.___T Rob Malda
-__l_____---;'_/_l_\_`;---_____l___- is a
-___\__._______V.^.V___((oo))./____- cocksucker
I__O_VI_\________________ll_IV___O_I
N_____I_lT~\___!___!___/~ll_I______N Fucking
S_____I_l`IIII_I_I_I_IIIIll_I__o___S lameness
A_O___I__\,III_I_I_I_III,ll_I______A filters,
N______\___`----------'__ll/____o__N will
E____O___\___._______.___ll________E this
-_________\..___^____../(_l___O____- ever
P_________/_^___^___^_/__ll\_______P fucking
R_O______/`'-l l_l l-';__ll_l___O__R WORK?!
I_______;_`'=l l_l l='__/ll_l______I
E_____O_l___\l l~l l__l/_ll_l______E Your mother
S_______l\___\ l_l l__;__ll_l__O___S was good
T__o____l_\___ll=l l==\__ll_l______T in bed, she
-____o__l_/\_/\l_l l__l`-ll_/______- grunts like
-_______'-l_`;'l_l l__l__ll_____O__- an ape.
I_O_______l__l l_l l__l__ll________I
N____O____l__l+l_l+l__l__ll___O____N Rob Malda
S_________l__"""_"""__l__ll________S is a
A__O______l____o_o____l__ll____O___A cocksucker
N_________l,;,;,;,;,;,l__ll________N
E_____O___`lIlIlIlIlIl`__ll________E
-__________llIlIlIlIll___ll_____O__- By Dessimat0r
P__________`"""""""""`___""________P (c)2003 Trollkore
-INSANE-PRIEST--INSANE-PRIEST--INSAN

The bishop, while living, was a follower of God.
Now dead, his rotting fingers are able to raise
an army of skeletons from the grave.

Trollkore
"I hate you, I hate your country, and I hate your face!"

# Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) # Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated # Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) # Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Dear GNAA Sirs (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383212)

Please direct me to the nearest local GNAA chapter. I am in San Francisco, CA. Any help would be most appreciated.

Thank you,
LaTron Jackson

Anonymous Coward (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383216)



Google Ranking [top25web.com]

Darwin (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383218)

Darwin doesn't really have a place in the world, other than to be a PR post for Apple. GNU has the Hurd coming up, and I don't see both Darwin and the Hurd surviving in the long run.

Above all, I have a feeling that the FSF is going to double cross Torvalds and other Linux kernel developers. With the Hurd, there's no need for the Linux kernel anymore, and because Stallman convinced Linus and pals to GPL the kernel, the Hurd is going to have lots of code examples to choose from.

We need a non-GNU toolchain to put on top of the Linux kernel so that when the Hurd makes its power play, Linux won't be dependent on the GNU stuff.

Re:Darwin (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383252)

You can put hurd up in your ass as long as it sucks that much

Re:Darwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383255)

When Hurd comes out, we will all be playing Duke Nukem Forever over IPv6.

don't hold your breath

Re:Darwin (1)

hatrisc (555862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383276)

actually hurd is out and is very nice. however it's not exactly usable for most people yet. i wanted to start contributing, but, that plan was foiled when i saw the lack of up to date documentation and realized i have no spare time.

Re:Darwin (1)

cscx (541332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383387)

I don't know where you come from, but "not exactly useable" and "lack of up to date documentation" doesn't equate to "very nice" in my book...

Re:Darwin (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383277)

Hurd eh ?

I always though the first letter was ROT-12 encoded.
It's not *when* it comes out, it's *if*.

Re:Darwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383267)

Give me a BREAK.

If Stallman were to, as you so eloquently put it, make a "power play" and double-cross Linus, the FSF itself would instantly lose credibility overnight.

Stallman may be bitter, but he's not dumb. HURD is nothing but a curiosity at this point. It is in no way capable to suddenly sit in for the Linux kernel.

Re:Darwin (1)

WasterDave (20047) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383269)

I don't see both Darwin and the Hurd surviving in the long run

Errrm, why not? The Hurd seems to have survived the onslaught of Linux over the past few years, and Darwin is the core of a widely commercially deployed *nix. I can't see a good reason for either to fall over, to be honest.

Dave

Re:Darwin (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383304)

The Hurd seems to have survived the onslaught of Linux over the past few years

How could Hurd not survive? Something that was never born cannot possibly die.

Repeat after me: Microkernels are like pure OO programming, very attractive and sexy on the paper, but obese and slow in the real world.

Re:Darwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383334)

How could Hurd not survive? Something that was never born cannot possibly die.

Very, very Lovecraftian.

EVER HEARD OF MISCARRIAGES??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383352)

nt

Re:Darwin (4, Interesting)

kjs3 (601225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383349)

While I agree that Darwin has little more than sideline interest in and of itself, I disagree with the rest of your premise. Hurd, while technically interesting, is years (literally) behind Linux in terms of feature set and usability. It's a decade behind from a user/market acceptance standpoint. Even with "lots of code examples to choose from", Hurd has a significant way to go before it is more than a curiosity.

Quick...name one Fortune 1000 company seriously considering a move to Hurd.

Ultimately, it's not Stallmans call over what kernel is used. That's sorta the thing with the GPL. Since it's all GPLed, people can pick what kernel they like. Some folks will jump to Hurd. My own guess is that very few will abandon Linux, at least in the forseeable future.

FWIW...People who want to dispose of the Linux kernel now do have an option. Last time I checked, the Debian/NetBSD folks had something going, tho they has some "interesting" ideas about licenses. I haven't seen a mad rush that direction from either the Debian or the NetBSD camp.

That said...we could use a new toolchain on top of Linux. Not because of any "consipricy" on the part of Stallman and his cabal, but because the GNU compilers are vastly better at portability that optimization. Having something as good as the Intel compiler or the DEC Alpha compiler for ever arch would be nice...

Re:Darwin (5, Interesting)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383363)

We need a non-GNU toolchain to put on top of the Linux kernel so that when the Hurd makes its power play, Linux won't be dependent on the GNU stuff.

Why do you think that the advent of the Hurd would be a bad thing from which other systems need protection? Your entire post is an odd rant, for why rail against GNU software if you're a Linux user?I'm disappointed by the lack of progress in the Hurd (it should pick up after the port to the L4 microkernel, however), but if it achieved stability it would be a superior solution to anything currently on the market. The Hurd has a ton of ingenious improvements and renovations in POSIX architecture, and could truly be a better future for *nix users. Of course, I'm not getting my hopes up, it's been ten years and Debian Hurd is hardly usable. But a man can dream.

Anyway, I expect GNU-Darwin to be cannabalised for code after Hurd picks up. This isn't a bad thing, however, since code reusability is a good thing.

3 years? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383219)

yeah because we have only been doing this for three years.

I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEAD! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383224)

I SODOMIZE PORK CHOPS!

Re:I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383426)

I took a shit on your pork chop.

Re:I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383452)

My mom is a plumber

Re:I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383560)

she's at my place, cleaning my pipe

lolf (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383226)

bwah! fourth post?

I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEAD! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383233)

I SODOMIZE PORK CHOPS!!

Digital activism? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383240)

Problem is that for most people, digital activism amounts to bitching and whining on /. and maybe voting for people who have no chance of winning.

I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEAD! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383245)

I SODOMIZE PORK CHOPS!!!

How curious. "Remove it"? (5, Interesting)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383248)

We have been prepared to take the Distro off-line a couple of times as a form of political action. It is important to realize that the software freedom status of GNU-Darwin was tenuous before the change to the APSL, so we were ready to cut our losses, and remove GNU-Darwin from the internet, if necessary. Now things have improved very much.
Now, I'm probably mistaken, but if they took down their site, couldn't someone just immediately pop up a mirror site and carry on from there? If it really is free software under the GNU licence, how can they remove GNU-Darwin from the Internet?

Re:How curious. "Remove it"? (2, Insightful)

Arker (91948) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383289)

Now, I'm probably mistaken, but if they took down their site, couldn't someone just immediately pop up a mirror site and carry on from there?

You are and you aren't.

Nothing legal to prevent it. On that you're right.

But it costs money and time to make something like that available and keep it updated. What makes you think that there are enough people out there who would spend that time and money to keep this thing alive that don't care about Freedom? What on earth would be their motivation?

Re:How curious. "Remove it"? (2, Funny)

s20451 (410424) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383448)

What makes you think that there are enough people out there who would spend that time and money to keep this thing alive that don't care about Freedom? What on earth would be their motivation?

Well, I [openoffice.org] have [linux.org] no [freebsd.org] idea [mplayerhq.hu] . Maybe they don't have girlfriends and are trying to fill the gaping void.

Re:How curious. "Remove it"? (1)

Arker (91948) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383477)

I think you have just proven my point.

How many of those links go to sites maintained by volunteers who took over a project after the originators pulled out? How many are run by people that don't care about Free Software?

Re:How curious. "Remove it"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383490)

Free Software != Freedom, jerk-off!

Re:How curious. "Remove it"? (2, Insightful)

Voivod (27332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383550)

What do you mean by "care about Free Software" in this context? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Are you asking why anyone would work on and maintain an open source project without strong ideological reasons, such as considering closed source software amoral? In that case, I expect that the majority of open source project communities do not fit your criteria. BSD, Apache, MySQL, Bind... many projects exist because they filled a niche and the open source method just out-competed their commercial rivals. People participate in the projects for many reasons that have nothing to do with ideologies that require Capital Letters to discuss.

Re:How curious. "Remove it"? (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383488)

No question--any fool that thinks starting/maintaining their own fork is welcome to try it. (The question of if anyone will care about your fork and where you put it, I leave to the other posts.)

It was just the choice of the work "remove" that struck me: Shorter than saying "stop all our work and take our site down", but it sounds more like "take our ball and go home". With open software, you can go home, but you can't take away your ball.

Re:How curious. "Remove it"? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383355)

Now, I'm probably mistaken, but if they took down their site, couldn't someone just immediately pop up a mirror site and carry on from there? If it really is free software under the GNU licence, how can they remove GNU-Darwin from the Internet?


That would require someone outside their project to actually give a shit if they took it down. All their stunts in the name of 'activisim' have marginalized them even more than they would have been anyway.

MOD PARENT UP!!!!!! (0, Offtopic)

NaCh0 (6124) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383539)

It's times like these when I need points.

Political? (5, Interesting)

worm eater (697149) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383249)

Well, timothy seems to be suggesting that OpenBSD [openbsd.org] is a 'truly politically oriented' version of BSD. Yet the OpenBSD site says that one of their goals [openbsd.org] is to "[b]e as politics-free as possible; solutions should be decided on the basis of technical merit." So is it just not possible for a group of Free Software programmers to be non-political?

Re:Political? (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383290)

No no--when they say politics free, they mean operating system politics.

Meat-space politics come and go, but operating system politics cause flamewars at dawn with dueling forks.

It was our last-best chance for peace, it failed...

Re:Political? (1)

s20451 (410424) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383467)

Meat-space politics come and go, but operating system politics cause flamewars at dawn with dueling forks.

I'm reminded of what they say about academic politics: it's vicious, only because the stakes are so terribly small.

Re:Political? (4, Informative)

cscx (541332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383409)

The OpenBSD people HATE the GPL. The only GPLed package in OpenBSD is GCC... and that is slated for removal eventually.

When the maintainer of BSD's ipf pulled a 180 and changed the license to something more restrictive (I'm at a loss for details right now), the OpenBSD people told him to fuck off, and they wrote their own firewall, now known to everyone as pf. Pretty sad that it had to happen, since pf is now regarded as one of the best firewalls around...

Re:Political? (0)

kayen_telva (676872) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383423)

the story is from JigSaw

MOD THIS UP - DONATION PAGE FOR DARWIN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383432)

The GNAA will be happy to use excess funds towards GNU/DARWIN and GNU/LINUX and GNU/HURD and GNU/blahblah. In addition, we are not motivated by politics. So, for the donation address, scroll down.

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(c) 2003 SHAA enterprises. You are permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this document, but changing it is not allowed. Our statement of belief. [ub.org]

politrix as usual (1)

segment (695309) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383461)

Well, timothy seems to be suggesting that OpenBSD is a 'truly politically oriented' version of BSD

You must be with SCO to make a comment like this, so anti-BSD'ish. I mean, how dare you talk about Theo, no one said he was arrogant cocky pr*ck in this article, so you should really stop trolling. As for political correctness on the BSD's, look to the less spoken of NetBSD [netbsd.org] , where no one plays the zealotry games.

mY oS iS bEtT3r tH4n j0ors sissies I swear...

Re:Political? (1)

moonboy (2512) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383463)

Not sure, but Timothy may have been referring to the stance that the OpenBSD team has taken in the past with regard to encryption technologies. Essentially keeping development headquartered outside of the U.S. because of export restrictions. But then again, Theo is from and lives in Canada anyway, so I guess I could be wrong about the above.

Re:Political? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383494)

It's just not possible to be apolitical. Even stating that you will be apolitical is a political stance. You can only choose your politics.

Re:Political? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383522)

In Soviet Russia, politics chooses you!

That was scary (3, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383256)

GNU-Darwin is an activist distribution

GNU-Darwin has been an ardent defender of digital liberties, and it is a platform for digital activism. Given the current state of things in the US and elsewhere, strident expressions of democratic power are necessary.

blah-blah

We have been prepared to take the Distro off-line a couple of times as a form of political action.

Damn, my skin crawls just remembering it ...

Seriously, what's this political rah-rah attached to software making? sure free software is about freedom of speech and it's very preferrable for a million valid reasons, but gee, let go of the melodrama-mode button.

Re:That was scary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383351)

How many people would even care? I mean, Linux is pretty obscure in mainstream computing. The BSD's are almost never seen. But Darwin or GNU/Hurd? Who'd honestly care if they were gone?

Re:That was scary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383424)

I wouldn't!

Re:That was scary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383445)

Well, you know, like people say "Hey Michael, how's the great mighty BSD/Darwin crew?" - "They're both well".

Re:That was scary (1)

Scarpia10 (720654) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383408)

I have a really tough time taking this guy seriously. Way too much commentary, some of it completely unrelated to software - "we did blackout the home page as a war protest in March." Now, I wasn't exactly in favor of the war, but this guy seems really, really self righteous. I know I went to his homepage to find out how HE felt about the war... I don't know, but he seems more interested in hearing his own voice (seeing his own print?) than in producing software.

Re:That was scary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383410)

More often that not, "free software" is really about the ego of the proponent. Most people like to have a reason to feel smugly superior to others. And it's not really that much of a stretch from mindless zealotry about an OS to mindless zealotry about any other cause.

Re:That was scary (1, Interesting)

idiotnot (302133) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383544)

It does have an effect -- people who are opposed to whatever whacko statement they're making at the moment simply decide not to use their software.

On my s-list at the moment:
- GNUPG people for their antiwar stuff
- GNU/Darwin for several of their stances
- OpenBSD (well, Theo, mostly) for being upset when the hand that feeds them stops when they bit it.

The political crap doesn't further your cause, it only turns off users. For me, with GNU/Darwin, it's easy. I don't use it, because there are better [debian.org] unix-like platforms [netbsd.org] available for PPC. And there's no contest on x86.

Happy to be a part (3, Informative)

Galileo430 (614516) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383258)

Seems silly such an article is written about "3 years" of free software. Since clearly this "free" stuff has been around for quite a bit longer.

I see Darwin as FreeBSD's little brother that just happens to have picked up a nice job working for a respectable corporation. The only reason why anyone really cares about this distro is because Apple does. Not that that is a bad thing.

I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEAD! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383259)

I SODOMIZE PORKCHOPS!!1

Who do GNU-Darwin Think They Are? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383262)

That GNU-Darwin people decides not to link to "proprietary" libraries is, of course, a result of them using the GNU Public License so extensively-- and now the primary supported Darwin platform is not even supported in this project!

This makes me shake my head and think, "what the fuck?" This project is not only shooting itself in the foot by choosing a platform not fully supported by the OS, but is also screwing over the real meat of Darwin's userbase: PowerPC owners. This move is akin to opening a car garage (in America) whose mechanics are all experienced in servicing American cars, and then changing policy months later, stating that the garage will only work on foreign models.

Where's the fucking logic?

Seriously, am I the only one who is wondering who the Hell is in charge at that project? Kool-Aid Man? This move makes so little sense I can't tell if the people at GNU-Darwin are really that stupid, or if I am waking up in alternate realities every damn morning. I almost kind of hope for the latter.

This is the GPL in action, Mac faithful. Get down and kiss Apple's butt for choosing the BSD license.

Re:Who do GNU-Darwin Think They Are? (1)

Arker (91948) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383382)

What kind of kool-aid are you drinking?

"The primary supported Darwin platform" - PPC, most assuredly is supported by this project.

Quit spreading fud, and moderators, please quit moderating this kind of nonsense up!

MOD THIS HIPPIE DOWN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383503)

The 60's and 70's are dead.

Re:Who do GNU-Darwin Think They Are? (-1)

TRoLLaXoR (181585) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383515)

No it's not. Read about this asinine move here [sourceforge.net] .

Re:Who do GNU-Darwin Think They Are? (2, Informative)

Juanvaldes (544895) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383533)

You were saying? [slashdot.org]

Re:Who do GNU-Darwin Think They Are? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383528)

who the Hell is in charge at that project? Kool-Aid Man?

This line by itself has earnt my 'post of the week' award. Bravo!

You make your stand where you can (4, Insightful)

Crashmarik (635988) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383272)

While I seriously doubt a free os will be able to muster the clout to be taken seriously on theri Antiwar stand or for that matter their Anti DMCA stand. Its very good to see people taking a stand and getting out the message.

This does point out the bigger question of why the technical community is not taken seriously on political issues. If you caught the Diane Rehm show this morning, they were doing a piece on voting systems. While they did have a few C.S. people talking about the problems of electronic voting machines, the election officials managed to stonewall and treat their concerns as non issues. The trick for technical people of any stripe is to make certain that the opinion of their community is heared outside their community. GNU/darwin, free BSD, or linux will only serve as a platform for speaking to those allready within a particular community.

Re:You make your stand where you can (1)

Evil Adrian (253301) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383434)

This does point out the bigger question of why the technical community is not taken seriously on political issues.

The same reason actors aren't taken seriously -- because they're not politicians.

Re:You make your stand where you can (2, Insightful)

Otter (3800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383566)

The problem is that if you use your software as a lever for your political views, you only have leverage to the degree that anyone cares about your product.

Nobody gives a damn about the GNU/Darwin software; it contributes nothing new, it's unsafely done and it gets jerked around every time "Proclus" wants to make a political statement. The guy flames anyone who points out shortcomings in his distribution, rants at anyone who criticizes anything he does and one time accused the MacSlash editors of trying to smear him after they posted one of his press releases, verbatim, with no additional commentary!

It's not a coincidence that every post here is commenting on the controversies he stirs up, with nothing about the technical merit of his work.

I JUST TOOK A BIG SHIT ON YOUR MOTHER'S FOREHEAD! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383279)

I SODOMIZE PORK CHOPS!!1!

I PRINT OUT THIS STORY AND WIPE MY ASS WITH IT (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383284)

If I ever need toilet paper, I just print out the day's stories from Slashdot and then wipe my ass with it. Anyone in to butthole play/scat?

Not quite "fair" politically. (4, Interesting)

Qweezle (681365) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383291)

From the site:


In fact, we did blackout the home page as a war protest in March, and we blackened the whole website, after Apple used the DMCA, but we have never actually taken it off line. Fortunately, the situation has never warranted taking the package collection off line, which would be an even more drastic step, and our actual users have never been affected by these actions. In fact, we received many orders and messages of support as a result of our activism.


While I realize that MOST of the supporters of Darwin may in fact be politically liberal...this is not fair for the [conservative and otherwise] users that are not. I'm not looking to start a flame war, but I believe that inserting his political beliefs into his work project is less than elegant.

Re:Not quite "fair" politically. (1)

geoffspear (692508) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383366)

Why would any conservative support open source, free software? A real conservative should believe that anything done for any reason other than to make a profit is necessarily wrong.

Re:Not quite "fair" politically. (1)

zangdesign (462534) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383483)

A real conservative should believe that anything done for any reason other than to make a profit is necessarily wrong.

Actually, I think you've got Republicans and Conservatives mixed up there, dude. Real Conservatism and Liberalism have nothing to do with all the political horse manure that Republicans and Democrats have piled on it.

Real Conservatism is about slow, careful change. More tweaking than actual, sweeping changes to the social landscape.

Re:Not quite "fair" politically. (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383380)

Can't the conservative hackers create their own OS? I mean, we could have hundreds of different OSes, one for each political philosophy. You could look over someone's shoulder, see "Be/HURD", and think "Wow, an anarcho-syndicalist", or someone else, who's running "GNU/OpenBSD" and think "Gosh, that guy's a christian democrat", or yet another person, who's running Windows Me, and think "Wow, that person's a Republican".

Re:Not quite "fair" politically. (3, Insightful)

Arker (91948) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383395)

This has nothing to do with 'liberal' or 'conservative'. Plenty of left-wing warmongers out there (just look at the US Congress) and plenty of conservatives are anti-war.

Being against war isn't a right-left thing. It's a humanity thing.

Re:Not quite "fair" politically. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383479)

In other words, you're just a pansy.

Re:Not quite "fair" politically. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383548)

It's a humanity thing.

If you can't take the heat, get off the planet.

A nice idea, but I have my doubts that it'll work (2, Interesting)

FreeBSD Goddess (721137) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383295)

Most developers don't have a problem with opposing things such as the DMCA and the abuse of patents that runs rampant. That won't be an issue. It was also said in the article that, in March, the page was blacked out for a time in protest of the war against Iraq. I know the war is something that most Slashbots were quite opposed to. While it may not have been the right thing, there are some good things to come from it. One of which is millions of Iraqis now have freedoms they never enjoyed under Saddam Hussein. For the sake of the Iraqi people, hopefully the war will be a success and Iraqis will enjoy the freedoms that much of the world already enjoys. And hopefully the standard of living will rise in Iraq, too. My point is that some issues don't have a clear cut right and wrong. Taking a side, one way or the other, risks fragmenting the community, alienating developers, and just causing a big mess.

I'd like to think the editorial was right when it stated that the community hopes to pressure SCO into changing its ways, much like the effect they probably had on Apple. Unfortunately, the problem is here that SCO doesn't give a damn about the community. SCO is all about profit, pleasing investors, and making a quick buck.

Re:A nice idea, but I have my doubts that it'll wo (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383313)

Goddamnit you perv/cunt, will you please the fuck shut up? We know you're a man. You're worse than wil fucktard wheaton. You are also an early post karma whore. You think you are fooling anyone? Get the fuck out of here.

Re:A nice idea, but I have my doubts that it'll wo (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383324)

Good job, cmdrtaco(troll). By following me around all afternoon and evening making stupid little comments, you've proven that you have no life at all. And this is the last comment of yours I'm biting on. Run along now, kiddie. Your fun is over, little boy.

Re:A nice idea, but I have my doubts that it'll wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383362)

We'll see about that.

Re:A nice idea, but I have my doubts that it'll wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383325)

It should read 'shut the fuck up' - and it's worth repeating. Get lost, you fat fuck.

Re:A nice idea, but I have my doubts that it'll wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383327)

You my friend are my favorite Slashdot troll. Very subtle, well done.

Contradictory (1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383311)

In the SCO dispute, GNU-Darwin has no stake at all

For a body with no stake at all they have a lot to say about the SCO dispute in that document.

Reenactment (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383315)

Scene: the Whitehouse


Dubya: Ok, tomorrow we start dropping the bombs if the demands are not met.

General: Sir! We just got the news in! The GNU-Darwin distribution has taken down its website!

Dubya: Oh my god! Cancel the war!!

Re:Reenactment (2, Funny)

hayden (9724) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383573)

Scene: the Whitehouse

Dubya: Ok, tomorrow we start dropping the bombs if the demands are not met.

General: Sir! We just got the news in! The GNU-Darwin distribution has taken down its website!

Dubya: Darwin? Isn't that is Austria with all the Kargaroos? They said they were on our side!

broken images? (-1, Offtopic)

miguel_at_menino.com (89271) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383329)

Is it just me or are the slashdot images all screwed up?

Re:broken images? (1)

tritone (189506) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383335)

Not just you. Most of them are missing for me too.

Re:broken images? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383338)

Theyre not just screwed up they're not found.

Re:broken images? (1)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383360)

It's fixed, clear your cache. I presume you mean the smileys?

translation for normal people? (4, Insightful)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383339)

What seems to be missing from the article is an explanation of why anyone would care about the project. Is it because they think the Darwin kernel is technically superior to other kernels? In what way? Is it superior in ways that normal users would care about? If you've got a PPC box and want to put a free OS and free apps on it, why not just install a PPC version of Linux? There may be good reasons, but they aren't evident from the article.

The whole article just comes off like a crank piece to me. I'm against the war in Iraq, but if they think blacking out their web site is a real form of anti-war protest, that's pretty pathetic.

Re:translation for normal people? (1)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383384)

If you've got a PPC box and want to put a free OS and free apps on it, why not just install a PPC version of Linux?


You ought to just go ahead and put linux on it then, or perhaps plain old Darwin.

GNU-Darwin decided to support only x86, not PPC, some time ago in a fit of 'activisim'.

Re:translation for normal people? (2, Insightful)

Arker (91948) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383466)

While I am not sure why someone would want to run Darwin instead of Linux-ppc if not because they have to run one or more proprietary apps (that's my excuse) this is just nonsense:

GNU-Darwin decided to support only x86, not PPC, some time ago in a fit of 'activisim'.

I know it's nonsense, because I have a lot of their packages installed on my TiBook at the moment. Look here [gnu-darwin.org] . Packages for PPC and x86, no problem.

Re:translation for normal people? (1)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383492)

It's not nonsense.
Look here [gnu-darwin.org] in their own press archive, 3rd article from the top.
They still have their old PPC stuff in "matinance mode", but they only actually develop on x86. (unless they meekly pulled back from their position without bothering to make a statement to that effect).

Political OS (5, Insightful)

Chromodromic (668389) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383342)

Well, I'm not very familiar with Darwin, but now I can say, based on this story, that my mind is pretty closed to it. I would certainly be hard pressed to ever consider it for anything in a production environment.

I don't want politics with my OS. I don't want the distribution site going black because Bush decides to bomb koala bears or even humans for that matter. Call me cold-hearted, but if I'm in a production environment, and I need to deliver a box that's expected to be supported and work as advertised, I don't want to worry if the freaking OS "activists" -- whatever the hell they are, exactly -- are going to pull the Distro (capitalized, no less) because the Malaguan butterfly's habitat is endangered by oil drilling or 250 million U.S. citizens have strong opinions about war.

Screw that. Give me my FreeBSD, which, to my knowledge, is pretty much always available, regardless of what Dan Rather is spewing at any given moment, and give me peace of mind. Hey, I know that's a lot less eloquent than "give me freedom, or give me death", but in my mind, and with some of the pressures I face from clients, I really don't distinguish between the two.

Activists need to shut up and get jobs anyway.

Re:Political OS (5, Insightful)

11223 (201561) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383568)

Please don't confuse Proclus's trolling with Darwin, which is a fine operating system put out by a lot of good people at Apple, including Jordan Hubbard. Instead go to the OpenDarwin [opendarwin.org] web site, with people who are actually interested in improving the technology. The only reason GNU-Darwin offers bootable CDs is that an OpenDarwin team member mistakenly told him how to build a CD without linking to the Apple proprietary components; the OpenDarwin release ISOs do this as well.

GNU-Darwin also has a spotty history with replacing libraries with broken versions, installing stuff in /usr and /usr/local, and generally making a mess of the system. Please do not attempt to run GNU-Darwin and ask for support from the real Darwin folks; they will turn up their noses at you.

Pay no mind to Proclus's trolling. I'm just dismayed it ended up on Slashdot.

WHERE ARE THE WMDS? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383369)

We have all been lied to. We impeach an adulterer, but we don't impeach someone who sends our brothers and sons into the battlefield for corporate reasons?

Make sure you vote in the next election. And think before you do.

Thank you.

Re:WHERE ARE THE WMDS? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383400)

Make sure you vote in the next election. And think before you do.

What for? aren't Diebold machines supposed to do that for you?

Zealot! (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383391)

This guy's a zealot. I don't mind him choosing to do what he does, but I won't ever bother to try out GNU/Darwin because of his zealotry. I prefer a more relaxed environment where BSD, GNU, APSL, or other licenses are not so strongly advocated or political/religious views put forward that I can worry instead about what interests me.

Michael Love = troll (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383411)

I don't know why the fuck this douchebag and his GNU-Darwin hard-on are allowed anywhere near slashdot. Check his homepage if you want. He's a scientologist.

a blip on the screen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7383457)

three years of activism! hugalugalugalugalugalugalugalugalugalugalu, yeah bullshit. RMS jacking off in his hype-paid office all day is only activism for bacterial colonies across metro Boston.

Scary.. (5, Interesting)

Pave Low (566880) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383504)

This nutjob seems to think that people should be buying into his beliefs when all anybody cares about is the software. He makes the mistake of thinking people should care just like him one other issues because of one non-related issue.

Can you imagine if you were in a restaurant and the waiter berates you for being pro/anti-abortion, pro/anti gun or being christian/jewish/whatever??

I'm sorry, this guy is really no much different than the child molesters who tempt kids with candy , only to get them into the back of their vans. Harsh, but true.

The 'blacking out' of the site (4, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383559)

"In fact, we did blackout the home page as a war protest in March, and we blackened the whole website, after Apple used the DMCA, but we have never actually taken it off line"

Did they take the site offline when "The war veterans - unleashed by President Robert Mugabe to seize white-owned farms - are not, however, killing only people: they are slaughtering animals on an unprecedented scale."?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/ ne ws/2003/06/22/wzim122.xml

Did they take the site offline to protest the jailing and torture in china of people who speak out or worship?

Did they take the site offline to protest the actions of the goverment of iran to put down the student lead protest movement that has resulted in thousands being thrown in jail?

No? Why not? Do they only protest against things that are 'in style' and/or 'hip' with their 'progressive' friends?

GNU-Darwin Mirror (1, Insightful)

proclus (33875) | more than 10 years ago | (#7383583)

Our pipes are pretty full, but there is always the Sourceforge mirror.

http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net]

Regards,
proclus

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