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Mac OS X Update 10.3.1 Available

pudge posted more than 10 years ago | from the that-was-fast dept.

OS X 99

Milanek writes "Mac OS X Update 10.3.1 is available via Software Update. It includes both security updates and it should also address problems with FireWire 800 drives." Apple recommends that you update your firmware updates for your FireWire / Oxford 922 / firmware 1.02 drives, even with the fixes in 10.3.1. The update also includes fixes for printing, WebDAV, and FileVault. TiVo writes "SecureMac is reporting that Panther's FileVault does not securely delete the files after encryption." Anyone know if this is fixed in 10.3.1?

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Installed (3, Interesting)

tehdely (690619) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438740)

I don't have a FireWire 800 drive nor do I use FileVault, so I doubt I'll benefit much from any of the improvements, but it's just too much not to install the latest OS X update. :)

Unfortunately, it hasn't fixed the one bug I've been experiencing so far, which is with certain pop-up menu widgets. If it has a text-entry box and a pop-up widget, the menu will pop up for a split second and then go away, even if I keep the mouse depressed. This does not happen with normal pop-up widgets.

Odd.

Re:Installed (4, Insightful)

lullabud (679893) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438855)

you know, i used to install all the latest updates as soon as my mac found them. that all changed when i installed the 10.2.8 update and the ethernet card on my g4 tower quit working, and my dock went into a crash loop. from then on i have been waiting a few days.. no sense in rushing to upgrade when my software already works.

Re:Installed (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7440183)

the idea that Apple's update alone somehow caused your dock to continuously crash is very doubtful. network problems have been documented in several past updates - the general convention is, delete the network pref pane settings, reboot, and try again. you can watch your logs to figure out what you fucked up in the dock - probably some proprietary program / hack you installed.

don't blame apple for being uninformed.

Re:Installed (-1, Flamebait)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#7441495)

Because EVERYONE knows that it CAN'T be apples fault! So what if hey installed the update and stuff broke, it must have been his fault! It can't be apples!

You apple people are worse than the hate Israel people when it comes to lack of critical thinking skills.

Re:Installed (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7441617)

As opposed to the hate Palestine people? They are *so* much more logical.

Re:Installed (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7441767)

Well the Palestine people are the ones straping bombs to themself then killing women and kids.

Re:Installed (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7442655)

And we all know its just sooooo much better for them to be killing men instead of women and kids.

Women make kids, and (some) kids grow into men. It's not right for them to be killing anyone, but lets not make it seem like its so horrific cos OMG they are killing _women_ and _kids_ :O !!!

Fucktard.

-Raptah.

Re:Installed (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7443300)

My family (that is, including my wife and kids) will tomorrow morning be moving into your house. If you try to remove us, we will shoot you. Please remember not to shoot back at my wife or my child. Thanks.

Re:Installed (4, Informative)

Demolition (713476) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442282)

Well, in the case of lullabud's Ethernet issues, Apple may deserve blame. See the following Apple Knowledge Base article:

Mac OS X 10.2.8: Can't Connect via Ethernet After Installing Update [apple.com]

His other statement (about waiting a few days before installing an OS update) is good advice, echoed by Mac troubleshooting websites such as MacFixIt [macfixit.com] and MacInTouch [macintouch.com] . Both offer excellent coverage of (and cures for) issues brought about by Mac OS updates. Reading the troubleshooting reports before installing an update can prevent a lot of unnecessary grief.

I'll also note that Apple's own Discussion Forums [apple.com] ) provide a place to seek troubleshooting advice and/or a place to vent your frustrations. Since Apple employees monitor the discussion threads, it's possible that at least some of what's posted there is noted and acted upon.

D.

Re:Installed (2, Informative)

lullabud (679893) | more than 10 years ago | (#7445352)

i never said that the update alone caused the problems. in fact, i know that the update along with transparent dock caused the problem, however, knowing that was no consolation when my dock was crashing before my eyes and i had to ssh into my box to fix things. that experience has given me hesitance to update, lest i end up in some other problematic situation, whether it's cause is purely apple's or not. placing blame or even finding the cause is still not a solution, so i choose to try to not have problems in the first place.

FileVault (5, Interesting)

Nutcase (86887) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438763)

From my limited experience with FileVault, it securely deletes files... The problem is that it does it to files you need, when you don't ask it to. Or at least it did to me, when it nuked my entire keychain and nearly required a reinstall to repair. I have since turned it off.

It is said that this update fixes bugs with Filevault, and I have installed it, but i am still /very/ hesitant to reenable filevault.

Besides, It would be better to enable it by folder (any folder) instead of simply the home dir. I would love to just encrypt my documents dir and leave my music available. That would make more sense, and probably speed things up as well.

Re:FileVault (2, Informative)

burns210 (572621) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439514)

well, as long as you back things up, you should be able to have your laptop harddrive get nuked(or stolen, since it is suppose to be for security use) and not have a problem...

it is sad though, that such a cool feature is having initial difficulty. hope everything gets ironed out completely by Apple.

Re:FileVault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7439856)

"From my limited experience with FileVault, it securely deletes files... The problem is that it does it to files you need, when you don't ask it to. Or at least it did to me, when it nuked my entire keychain and nearly required a reinstall to repair. I have since turned it off." You misunderstand, apparently. The advisory is takling about the conversion process itself. Any corruption or loss of data after that is because FileVault is buggy in *other* ways. I just did a test on a securely erased hard drive with test files, and the SecureMac advisory is correct by my tests.

Re:FileVault (2, Informative)

NaugaHunter (639364) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439924)

This is already possible. Use Disk Copy to make a Disk Image with encryption. You can then make this as paranoid as you want - either highly: manual opening, and don't save the password in Keychain. Or low, with Applescripts to automatically open and close it during login and logout. Used with aliases and/or links it could probably be made fairly transparent. However, I've had one of these get hosed when it was automatically ejected after clearing a screen-saver, so your milage may vary.

Re:FileVault (1)

plj (673710) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442722)

I used to use this with Jaguar - but actually, I'm still using it, because I don't trust FileVault. As it uses your login passwd I assume somebody (the one who just stole your laptop...) could circumvent it by booting single user mode and resetting your password. Does anyone here know whether this is possible or not?

And no, OpenFW passwd does not protect against booting to single user mode - you can reset it by altering the amount of system RAM - easy, as you can't enforce physical security with a laptop - and then resetting PRAM three times (press Command+PR and boot)

I'd like to use FileVault, if I just could trust it, as it would be more convenient than my current setup.

Don't assume... (4, Informative)

Cadre (11051) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442917)

It's not possible for someone to reset your password to circumvent FileVault.

It's a symmetric encryption system and your password is being used as a key to encrypt your home directory. If somebody were to boot single user and change your user's password then login they'd just get an error because the new password couldn't unencrypt your home directory.

This release looks like it cleaned up those nasty home-directory-gets-nuked bugs and is probably pretty solid.

Re:Don't assume... (1)

plj (673710) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442980)

It's a symmetric encryption system and your password is being used as a key to encrypt your home directory. If somebody were to boot single user and change your user's password then login they'd just get an error because the new password couldn't unencrypt your home directory.

Well, that was exactly the information I was looking for! Thank you. :)

Re:FileVault (1)

raverbuzzy (603708) | more than 10 years ago | (#7444493)

Filevault uses the same method. It creates a encrypted growable sparse disk image that is mounted upon logon as your home directory. diskutil can recover space in these images just as filevault does and i'm willing to bet that all filevault is doing is passing commands to diskutil to do the work.

Re:Lack of secure erasure upon enabling verified. (2, Informative)

BoboTheMonkey (723136) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440182)

just created a new user account, created a new testing text file directly saved into the home folder of the new account, copied it a couple of times for good measure, enabled filevault, ... booted off of the norton cd, and indeed those files where found and recovered... so, securemac is correct in its advisory.

"From my limited experience with FileVault, it securely deletes files...Or at least it did to me, when it nuked my entire keychain and nearly required a reinstall to repair" the issue of files being destroyed in FileVault is another bug entirely, ... even though I hate being pompus, rtfa next time ... .or, if you're trying to be humorous, it's very, very dry humor.

Re:Lack of secure erasure upon enabling verified. (1)

Nutcase (86887) | more than 10 years ago | (#7444608)

I like my humor dry.

I wasn't talking about the securemac article. I was talking about how filevault nuked my entire keychain quite securely. Part joke, Part discussion on the merits of the 10.3.1 update. If I had forseen the confusion with the SecureMac article, I would have elaborated a bit more.

Re:FileVault (0, Troll)

mrpuffypants (444598) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440537)

But what about when the RIAA comes knocking? Then you'd be happy to have your 20 Gigs of KaZaa'd music encrypted before you throw the PowerBook out the window!

As they come through the door just yell "Suck on that! Encrypted and all I had to do was take a 35% performance hit in everything I do!"

Re:FileVault (3, Funny)

Pendersempai (625351) | more than 10 years ago | (#7441031)

As they come through the door just yell "Suck on that! Encrypted and all I had to do was take a 35% performance hit in everything I do!"

And they'd yell back "Suck on THIS! Here's a subpoena; now decrypt the volume or become a felon!"

:)

Re:FileVault (3, Funny)

martinX (672498) | more than 10 years ago | (#7443431)

I'm afraid that the head-clubbing that your goons dealt to me has made me forget the password. sorry.

Re:FileVault (1)

Theaetetus (590071) | more than 10 years ago | (#7444077)

And they'd yell back "Suck on THIS! Here's a subpoena; now decrypt the volume or become a felon!"

Hmmm... Contempt of court vs. $150k per song...? That's a tough one. ;)

-T

Re:FileVault (2, Insightful)

andreMA (643885) | more than 10 years ago | (#7449477)

By refusing to give the password, you buy time to try to have the subpoena quashed on merits (or lack thereof).

5th ammendment? (1)

McFly777 (23881) | more than 10 years ago | (#7452602)

And they'd yell back "Suck on THIS! Here's a subpoena; now decrypt the volume or become a felon!"

When does this become self-incrimination?

Re:FileVault (2, Informative)

Graff (532189) | more than 10 years ago | (#7444950)

I would love to just encrypt my documents dir and leave my music available.

That's easy enough to do, just make an encrypted disk image using Disk Utility (Disk Copy in pre-10.3). Copy everything you want encrypted to it. Then just open it when you need your stuff, it takes only a second to open. You can even make it a login item and save the password in your keychain so it automatically opens on login.

The only difference is you'll have a documents volume instead of a documents folder, no big whoop there since it all pretty much works about the same. If you want to make it look like it is in the same old spot then make a soft link [ic.ac.uk] from the Documents folder to the Documents volume.

How About Fixing Windows Printing (1)

BRock97 (17460) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438779)

My biggest complaint about what was promised but not delivered is the ability for Windows users to print to a Mac printer. I reinstalled my 950C on my eMac, made sure it was shared, and installed the proper drivers in WinXP. Nadda. My beef is that there is no error what so ever. It just sends the job and nothing happens. The printer center in X doesn't even start. Bah....

Re:How About Fixing Windows Printing (4, Informative)

austad (22163) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438889)

This works, but it's not documented anywhere. Change your cupsd.conf to allow access from your other machines, not just localhost. Then when adding the printer on your windows box, for the location type in:
http://:631/printer/printername

It will force windows to use IPP when printing to the printer, and it works great on my network.

Re:How About Fixing Windows Printing (4, Informative)

austad (22163) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438937)

oops, slashdot's filter took out the part before the :631, it should be the ip of your mac. I had it enclosed in less than/greater than signs.

http://[ip of your mac]:631/printers/printername

Re:How About Fixing Windows Printing (1)

tyrione (134248) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439467)

Glad you discovered the crux of your frustrations.

I think people get accustomed to the notion of 'ease-of-use' and forget that being a UNIX based Operating System the odds are something in the foundation communicating has been misconfigured.

This is true for Linux as well, NeXTStep, Solaris, etc.,.

For Systems Engineers or Systems Administrators in the Enterprise one is so accustomed to customizing deployed systems and testing the verbose outputs that such oversights are less common.

On the downside it is more time consuming.

The only refreshing note is one becomes more competent in the entire workings of the Operating System.

I love the feeling of increased competency.

Re:How About Fixing Windows Printing (1)

madcow_ucsb (222054) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440558)

Speaking of printing, is it possible to do borderless prints out of a photo printer yet? My friend had a mac running OS 10.2 but sold it because it wasn't possible to print borderless photos on any of the three printers he tried it with (a kodak, an hp, and a sony, I believe).

While I was very impressed with the OS in general (and I'm saving my lunch money for a G5 myself) I was very unimpressed with its printer support.

Re:How About Fixing Windows Printing (1)

Rommel (33210) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440926)

I have a Canon i950s and have no problem printing borderless prints from my iMac running OS 10.2.

I Wonder ... (2, Insightful)

Mad_Fred (530564) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438780)

Is it Apple who pushes restarts after updates just to be sure, or are other OSs much better at updating themselves without needing a restart? I even like how Windows lets me dismiss the prompts to restart until I decide to do so on my own better than Apple's approach. Sure, it may not make much practical difference, but the Windows way feels friendlier. Except when it reboots without warning of course ...

Re:I Wonder ... (3, Informative)

bpbond (246836) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438897)

This has been discussed previously on apple.slashdot. The short answer, as I remember, was yes, you can usually do one-by-one reloads of the appropriate libraries, drivers, etc., without a restart--but why would you go to that trouble? (Unless you're super-anal about your uptime.) Restarting is fast and easy.

Also, the installer doesn't force you to restart that instant; just hide it, go on working, and restart at your convenience.

Re:I Wonder ... (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439358)

because you want to keep your programs open, for whatever reason(serving, some f******* long calculation, some very slow transfer)? i'm not anal about my uptime but usually i got some chats and other connections open that i don't want to take down.

anyways, the gist could be in that they want you to restart(and not just dismiss it) because otherwise the secure updates wont really kick in.

though, if it's possible to just (re)load up the libs inpendent of each other.. why they don't do that automatically beats me. keeping up-to-date shouldn't involve booting at regular intervals though.

Re:I Wonder ... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7439562)

You don't HAVE to install the update 10 mins after it comes out. You could wait until you go to bed or you are done chatting.

Re:I Wonder ... (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439846)

* You don't HAVE to install the update 10 mins after it comes out. You could wait until you go to bed or you are done chatting.*

the point is, that if it is an important security update, you shouldn't wait needlessly. and mentioned calculations and transfers that make it unfeasible to reboot could last for DAYS.

having to reboot for updates sucks on both windows and macs, and anywhere else you need to do it. in windows it's super annnoying how some program installers hook some trivial things to the boot script and then need rebooting before they will work, some programs just tell you to reboot for no reason at all!

Re:I Wonder ... (2, Insightful)

TClevenger (252206) | more than 10 years ago | (#7445161)

Interesting, I never had that problem. Just minimize Software Update until you're ready to reboot, then bring it back up and click "Restart." I've never had it force me to restart.

Re:I Wonder ... (0)

alph0ns3 (547254) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439698)

Because linux can do it?

Re:I Wonder ... (2, Insightful)

sporty (27564) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438900)

Not all updates require restarts. Some which I suspect use kernel extensions, prolly do, just to ensure that they get unloaded and reloaded properly.

Re:I Wonder ... (3, Informative)

segvio (540235) | more than 10 years ago | (#7438976)

Command-Option-Escape. Force quit software update once it has done the install. You can also 'kill' the process the *nix way. You can now reboot when you want, with out the nagging dialog box.

Re:I Wonder ... (3, Interesting)

Nexum (516661) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439301)

Yeah... like recently a friend with a brand new Windows XP notebook brought it round to use my DSL to download some files...

I plugged it into the network, and loaded up IE... *nothing*, IE reports no internet connection.

Hmm, that should'nt happen, I'll go take a look in the Internet configuration options...

Ah, there's the problem, silly XP didn't/doesn't detect it has a network now, I'll just go to the LAN settings and change them... there we go, Accept>OK.

Type in an address... ... ... Oh no, still no internet.

Weird says I, that should have worked. Went and ran through the Internet Connection Wizard...

Yes I want to connect to the internet via a network, Yes it's a home network, Yes I'd rather like you to find the settings automatically.

WINDOWS XP WIZARD: "Windows XP is setting up your internet configuration, please wait"
(Window with animation of computer sliding down a wire toward another computer)

Still waiting...

Still waiting...

Still waiting (now taken a few minutes

WINDOWS XP WIZARD: "The Windows Internet Configuration Wizard has now successfully set up your internet settings (I'm ever so clever)."

ME: "Joy! At last!"

WINDOWS XP WIZARD: "But first of all, Windows XP needs to restart before these new settings take effect"

FFS - this is the LATEST operating system from MS, and I am REBOOTING to get it to access the internet from a HOME NETWORK!?!?!?!?

I couldn't believe it... My PowerBook on the other hand, I took it out of the box, it was already charged, and I powered it up, and it found the (wireless) network instantly, I had internet access straight away. (And the PC was connected with CAT 5 to the Router, so it didn't even need to bother with the added complexity of wireless). Sigh... I remember XP being bad... but I really actually gave it more credit than that.

Re:I Wonder ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7441112)

Is this one of those posts like the 16Meg file that took 21 minutes on a new mac to copy?

I call bullshit. I've changed network settings from fixed to DHCP and back, changed workgroup names, and never had a problem. If you're not just lying to try and make XP look bad, you *might* have had a crappy 3rd party driver.

Re:I Wonder ... (4, Insightful)

ZackSchil (560462) | more than 10 years ago | (#7441730)

I've seen Win XP do either one at different times. Someimes it needs a restart, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the hardware or something. Maybe when you run the Wizard it resets a lot of important stuff so a restart is needed but manually changing small things doesn't.

No matter which way you call it, it's just as, if not more sloppy than OS X's update restart thing. If I know what the security update is changing, I sometimes force quite the app that's telling me to restart and then reload ssh (or whatever component has changed) from the command line. If the uber-geeks at Slashdot would stop projecting or (if they're not blatantly trolling) start looking at problems objectively, they might gain some valuable skills.

"After patching Linux I can do X and keep my machine on!"
"Well have you tried a variation of X in Mac OS X to keep your machine up and benefit from updates? No? Why not?"

Re:I Wonder ... (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 10 years ago | (#7443759)

I think that for OS X like all *nix, it is probably a good idea to restart if kernel updgrades are invovled. In Linux, it is recommended to restart after a kernel upgrade. I think Apple urges the consumer to do so just for the sake of sanity. XP has the same issues, but XP applications like IE are so integrated into the core OS, that most of the time any changes to these apps requires a restart to work properly.

Re:I Wonder ... (1)

ZackSchil (560462) | more than 10 years ago | (#7443932)

On the really massive upgrades, you'll notice that after the update you're unable to lanch any new apps until you restart. The already open ones are fine but if you, say, try to open Quicktime Player after you run a major update, it will bounce in the dock forever and eventually settle down but not open. 10.3.1 didn't do that but I remember it happening with almost all the 10.2.x updates and some security patches. Anyone know what has to be updated for apps to stop launching like that?

Re:I Wonder ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7443769)

If the uber-geeks at Slashdot would stop projecting or (if they're not blatantly trolling) start looking at problems objectively, they might gain some valuable skills.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. ;)

but it doesn't matter, does it... (3, Insightful)

thatguywhoiam (524290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7443863)

I've seen Win XP do either one at different times. Someimes it needs a restart, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the hardware or something. Maybe when you run the Wizard it resets a lot of important stuff so a restart is needed but manually changing small things doesn't... No matter which way you call it, it's just as, if not more sloppy than OS X's update restart thing. If I know what the security update is changing, I sometimes force quite the app that's telling me to restart and then reload ssh (or whatever component has changed) from the command line. If the uber-geeks at Slashdot would stop projecting or (if they're not blatantly trolling) start looking at problems objectively, they might gain some valuable skills.

That's fine and good, and I see your point (assuming the XP machine was patching itself)... but at the end of the day...

He plugged in the XP laptop and it didn't want to work right away. The Mac laptop did. Now, if you are an 'average user', do you care about what's going on there? Or do you just want the damn thing to work?

Re:I Wonder ... (1)

Theaetetus (590071) | more than 10 years ago | (#7444147)

Got a worse one - configuring girlfriend's laptop with an 802.11g PCMCIA card and Windows XP to see my Linksys (not a Belkin!) router. Incidentally, my G4 and my Linux box connected to it instantly.

So, first put in the card. Found new hardware, install the drivers. Restart. Okay... Now run the connection wizard. Restart again. Didn't work - can't see the network... Oh, I see, it's still trying to use the Cat-5 port. Change that - whoops, restart again. Still can't see the network, have to run the wizard again. Restart again. Okay, it sees something, and now I can ping the outside world, but can't get DNS entries. Change bindings, restart again.

Etc. 2 hours later before it was working properly, and it still conks out for no reason once or twice a week, requiring a restart (no settings change, just reboot the computer, and it starts working again). Yeesh.

-T

Re:I Wonder ... (2, Interesting)

valkraider (611225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7446238)

Wow, I had this exact same problem! I have a regular home network, that I have 3 Macs (all now running 10.3.1) and two x86s running windows 2k.

A relative comes to visit, plugs in their shiny new $2500 Dell with Windows XP, and it won't connect to the network at all. It has an internal 802.11b card that won't connect to my 802.11b network - no matter what I try. So I give up, disable the wireless and try hardwired to the internal Ethernet port. Nope, still won't see the network. It took almost three hours and several reboots to get XP working.

By contrast, when we recieved our new AlBook, we turned it on and the airport Extreme saw our wireless connection, and started working. No hassles. I have also plugged it in wired to the network - still works just fine.

Now all of you guys are probably going to call me an Apple fanboy or addict or something like that. So what about the Win2k boxes I mentioned? They are both laptops and they both work fine with our wired AND wireless networks.

But the XP was a nightmare.

Re:I Wonder ... (1)

feldsteins (313201) | more than 10 years ago | (#7449979)

I even like how Windows lets me dismiss the prompts to restart until I decide to do so on my own better than Apple's approach.

Yeah I can see that. Of course there's situations where you basically want to make damned sure that people restart. Such as when applying security patches. When you have to restart for changes to take effect you don't want some boob clicking "later" and then rebooting the machine 12 days hence. And with the stability of today's operating systems that's easy to do. At least Apple's way you're free to ignore the Restart button and take care of your other business...but it won't go away until you click it.

Re:I Wonder ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7511028)

Mac OS 9 trained us to believe we always had to click a button on modal dialogs in order to continue, and old habits die hard now that we can multitask. The absense of a button other than "restart" on an installer is not a deficiency in design, just a way to keep the reboot reminder in the Dock while you go about doing other things in other apps until it is more convenient to restart. In my mind, this is better than cancelling the reminder and letting it slip your mind for a few months, which could easily happen with OSX's uptime.

Restarts are suggested only when updating processes that launch at boot or login or cannot be safely halted and relaunched-- even then restarts are usually not absolutely necessary, but can help prevent potential screw-ups, like launching an updated iApp that expects an updated login task. Developer laziness or "better safe than sorry" mentality probably wins the fight for requesting a restart rather than actually determining whether any harm can be done by not restarting.

I've gotten into the (possibly bad) habit of letting installers run in a background task while I keep using my apps and playing my iTunes. I've probably never actually rebooted immediate when a restart button first appears, only when I remember that I set an installer/update in motion a few hours ago, and I'm headed to the break room anyway.

/usr/sbin/softwareupdate (4, Informative)

babbage (61057) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439479)

For those that haven't seen it yet, updates can be done from the command line. The interface for the command has changed with Panther; it will accept a --help argument now, for example, and called with no arguments you get the help text (where under Jaguar this would have retrieved a list of current pending updates).

The command for the 10.3.1 upgrade is

sudo softwareupdate -i MacOSXUpdate10.3.1-10.3.1

Now go upgrade your work machine from home, or your home machine from work... :-)

Re:/usr/sbin/softwareupdate (1)

tbmaddux (145207) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440178)

updates can be done from the command line.
This works for me but not all the time. Sometimes it fails, as it is doing consistently with QuickTime 6.4 on a machine running 10.2.8 (I know this is a Panther-related main topic but bear with me). The update gets only to 50% installed and then hangs there, I have tried several times. I have succesfully updated this machine on the command line since failing to do QT 6.4. It's just this one update. Any advice for getting it to work remotely (I am 3500 miles away from it and unlikely to be near it any time soon)?

Re:/usr/sbin/softwareupdate (3, Insightful)

usr122122121 (563560) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440237)

I have succesfully updated this machine on the command line since failing to do QT 6.4. It's just this one update. Any advice for getting it to work remotely (I am 3500 miles away from it and unlikely to be near it any time soon)?
If you're 3500 miles away from the computer, I can't imagine having the newest QuickTime on it is a high priority :-p

Re:/usr/sbin/softwareupdate (2, Informative)

DonnarsHmr (230149) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442321)

I went through the same troubles until I noticed a stange dialog box on the screen when I got home. The QuickTime 6.4 installer prompts for user input part way through. If you're doing the upgrade remotely over ssh, the dialog opens on the remote screen. You have to physically access the machine, or use a protocol like VNC, to access the GUI remotely. AFAIK, there is no was to do this install solely through the command line. You have to access the GUI one way or another.

NV17? (1)

shlong (121504) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439756)

I can't find the upgrade on the Apple site and I'm not near my PowerMac. So the big question for me is whether this fixes the NV17 problem. It's getting pretty painful to run my machine on reduced RAM.

window selection (2, Interesting)

roninmagus (721889) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439831)

My buddy at school showed me this on his mac notebook.

One cool feature he pointed out was the ability to zoom out all the windows. You could then click on one you want, which is then zoomed into the foreground with focus.

I thought that was the coolest thing under the sun, no more alt-tabbing craziness.

Any idea if someone could implement this ability into X or the current top window managers?

Re:window selection (2, Informative)

BitGeek (19506) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440064)


You're talking about expose.

If you have apple's X11 server installed (comes with panther, but not installed by default) the xwindows are just like regular windows and expose cleans them up and lets you pick the one you want-- along with all the other open windows. Or just among the open x windows if you choose the "pick from apps windows" version of expose.

The x integration seems pretty well done, though I haven't used it much.

Re:window selection (1)

coolmacdude (640605) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440812)

He's talking about Linux, not X11 from within OS X.

Re:window selection (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7440493)

Any idea if someone could implement this ability into X or the current top window managers?

You could probably fake it, but it wouldn't be as seamless.

Expose uses the fact that apple's windows are actually OpenGL surfaces, and can be manipulated almost entirely on the GPU. Trying to let windows update while scaled, like Expose does, would be REALLY slow, as would any attempt at a scaling down animation.

Re:window selection (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7441746)

Actually it's not that slow on a 500Mhz G3 iMac with no Quartz Extreme capable graphics card. But it's instantaneous on my iBook with QE!

Re:window selection (1)

KH2002 (547812) | more than 10 years ago | (#7443634)

The old Formac video card I use for my SGI 1600SW flatscreen has no OS X driver, so I don't have acceleration on it. This makes using live video in Final Cut Pro impossible, for instance. Panther disables the card entirely by default. I used the hack found here:

http://macintouch.com/panreader08.html

to activate the card under Panther. It worked, and much to my surprise, Expose works quite well on this ancient, non-accelerated card.

Re:window selection (1)

Jesselovesscripts (719652) | more than 10 years ago | (#7448158)

yes. http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/ I love that you can set it to clicking the scroll wheel. uber efficiant (sp?)

Pretty much no. (1)

Onan (25162) | more than 10 years ago | (#7449137)

With any current X11 server of which I know, no. Apple made the mixed decision to implement a windowing system which is largely vector based, and which uses opengl textures for compositing of ui elements. Which is completely different from the behaviour of extant X11 servers.

I say "mixed" because Apple's approach has some fairly significant overhead for even the simplest of operations, but very complex operations (like Expose) are pretty much free beyond that.

You also see with with the "genie effect" by which windows minimize into the Dock, the "cube" effect of fast user switching, and true window transparency. They're basically showing off all the neat stuff that's easy to do, to counterbalance the fact that the whole windowing system is slow on older systems.

Xfree86 or a window manager could hack in some poor imitation of the effect, just as some terminals lamely imitate transparency. But doing it "for reals" would involve some huge bottom-up changes.

Re:Pretty much no. (1)

King Babar (19862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7466663)

With any current X11 server of which I know, no. Apple made the mixed decision to implement a windowing system which is largely vector based, and which uses opengl textures for compositing of ui elements. Which is completely different from the behaviour of extant X11 servers.

I say "mixed" because Apple's approach has some fairly significant overhead for even the simplest of operations, but very complex operations (like Expose) are pretty much free beyond that.

Instead of "mixed" I would say "forward-looking". There is some cost, but Apple has (I think correctly) decided that the cost is only going to be noticeable on hardware of this generation (pre-G5) and before. The benefits of the vector model go on and on forever. So what Expose does for every window on the computer (or in the application) you can expect Safari to be able to do for every tab in your window. For that matter, "Grab" *could* be made to grap a PDF of your screen instead of a tiff (this is actually a bug, I think; also, if you print to PDF from Grab, you only get the visible part of the window; that's *definitely* a bug. Everything can generate useful PDF.

Basically, once you drink the Kool-aid on the vector-based model, I don't think you'd really want to go back.

Re:Pretty much no. (1)

hobbit (5915) | more than 10 years ago | (#7492405)

So what Expose does for every window on the computer (or in the application) you can expect Safari to be able to do for every tab in your window.

This functionality already exists with Expose, by default bound to F10. All you have to do is uncheck "Enable tabbed browsing" in Safari's preferences :P

Why anyone would continue to use tabbed browsing given the existence of Expose is beyond me. Perhaps if Apple were to have the windows display their titles superimposed as soon as Expose is active, rather than only when they are moused over?

Re:Pretty much no. (1)

King Babar (19862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7505796)

Why anyone would continue to use tabbed browsing given the existence of Expose is beyond me. Perhaps if Apple were to have the windows display their titles superimposed as soon as Expose is active, rather than only when they are moused over?

I would agree with you if I thought that tabbed browsing was only useful for having lots of windows without the clutter. As it turns out, I use tabs to *organize* my browsing experience. So there are many times when I have a set of tabs open for my teaching materials, a set open for BLAST analyses I'm running, a set for, well, bloggish stuff, and then one for google/deja/yahoo. That could easily be 20 windows, or just 4 sets of 5 tabs. (Note that I *never* quit the browser, and it starts up when I login.)

And as far as "mousing over" the windows in Expose goes...please. What do you think keyboard navigation is for?

I think the best compromise solution is for Expose to give you the option of exploding out your Safari tabs when you select one of its windows. Or, if you use F10, then maybe it auto-explodes them.

In any case, it really does turn out to be life changing. The command that just *really* became extinct, by the way, is "Hide..."

Re:Pretty much no. (1)

hobbit (5915) | more than 10 years ago | (#7536051)

Fair points.

You're right that four collections of five is better than one collection of twenty. I still think that's better served by virtual desktops than some other paradigm, but I don't ever have twenty panes on the go so I've never really given tabbed browsing much time.

And as far as "mousing over" the windows in Expose goes...please. What do you think keyboard navigation is for?

I think it's for someone who would rather cover O(n) rather than O(sqrt(n)) distance to reach a given window ;P No, I'd rather have keyboard shortcuts too, at least for, say, the first ten visible windows.

By the way, have you tried going into F9-Expose mode (or whatever you have it bound to) and then Command-backticking? Wierd, it acts kinda more like Command-tabbing.

I have never used "Hide..."; but then, I never used Macs before OS X.

Anyone else (2, Insightful)

backlonthethird (470424) | more than 10 years ago | (#7439972)

going to wait on this one? Just remembering 10.2.8 here..

Re:Anyone else (1)

ce25254 (25706) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442083)

Still waiting on 10.3, personally, indefinitely. I don't have a real great reason to upgrade from 10.2.8 at the moment, as my computer runs quite stably.

Re:Anyone else (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7442181)

10.2.8 was a notable anomaly in Apple update history. It unintentionally disabled Ethernet on some-not-all 3+ year old dual processor G4s, not a good thing and inexcusable, but not exactly widespread or havoc-wreaking either.

I installed 10.3.1 with my customary (and statistically well-earned) Mac user confidence. No problems to report, as is the usual Mac custom.

Funny how the many years worth of seamless Mac updates never make news.

Re:Anyone else (2, Interesting)

stripes (3681) | more than 10 years ago | (#7447944)

10.2.8 was a notable anomaly in Apple update history. It unintentionally disabled Ethernet on some-not-all 3+ year old dual processor G4s, not a good thing and inexcusable, but not exactly widespread or havoc-wreaking either.

Er, and don't forget the other notable anomaly, one of the first iTunes updates forgot to handle spaces in file names (which are common on Macs) and could delete vast swaths of your stuff.

Other then those two I can't think of any bad upgrade experiences from Apple.

Re:Anyone else (1)

overbom (461949) | more than 10 years ago | (#7472131)

i installed it immediately with no problems.

one would think that it's pretty tough to screw up a 1.5mb patch.

New terminal how-to (2, Informative)

djupedal (584558) | more than 10 years ago | (#7440638)

[Mine:~] metoo% softwareupdate -l
Software Update Tool
Copyright 2002-2003 Apple Computer, Inc.

Software Update found the following new or updated software:
! MacOSXUpdate10.3.1-10.3.1
Mac OS X Update, 10.3.1, 1292K [required] [restart]

==========
The 10.3.1 Update delivers enhanced functionality and improved reliability for the following applications, services and technologies: FileVault, Printing, WebDav, and FireWire 800 drives. This update also includes the latest Security Updates.

Important Note: Apple has identified an issue with external FireWire hard drives using the Oxford 922 bridge chip-set with firmware version 1.02 that can result in the loss of data stored on the disk drive. Even with the improvements available in this update, Apple recommends you update the firmware on your FireWire drive. Please contact your drive manufacturer for more information.

No Secure Delete (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7440802)

File Vault does not securely delete anything.

OK, if you define 'secure delete' the way Aladdin do, then yes, it's a secure delete. But you're a sucker if you trust in this slipshod mechanism.

If you need a really secure delete, then take the time to read these two documents and learn a bit about what is involved.

http://rixstep.com/2/sd,001.html [rixstep.com]
ftp://rixstep.com/pub/gutmann.pdf [rixstep.com]

Who cares about insecurely deleted files? (1)

scrod (136965) | more than 10 years ago | (#7441811)

Just run
cat /dev/urandom > /ahugefile
until it fills up all available disk space on the directory on which your home directory used to reside. And of course you can run it three or four more times for good measure. Your swap files, however, are still written to disk in plain text, so it won't matter a week or two later, anyway.

Re: I care. (1)

BoboTheMonkey (723136) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442854)

It's about bringing system designed with security in mind at every step to all who want it, but such that it's done seamlessly in the background so an average user doesn't have to concern themselves about security because the system takes care of security for them. And it does matter because it's still too large of a statical chance for file recovery when viewed from the perspective that it would be so incredibly easy to implement a secure delete of the home directory after it has been copied to the disk image (aka FileVault).

Notify me of incoming calls (2, Informative)

macmurph (622189) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442283)

Ever since installing Panther, I haven't been notified of any incoming calls while I am online. The feature is turned on in the System Preferences>Network>Modem Tab... but incoming calls to my v.92 PowerBook modem aren't triggering the proper "answer, ignore" dialog box.

The 10.3.1 update did not fix this bug either.

Anyone else having problems with this flakey feature?

It used to work for me in Jaguar reasonably well.

Any problems with 10.3.1 yet? (2, Insightful)

watsondk (233901) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442466)

after losing 212GB in the Panther Firewire fsckup, its going to take a great deal for me to have any confidence in Apple ever again.

Anyone installed this update? with firewire drives attached?

Anyone come across any problems?

Once burned, now even more paranoid than usual

Re:Any problems with 10.3.1 yet? (2, Insightful)

valkraider (611225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7446084)

Of course the firmware update was unnecessary because it was all Apple's fault, right?

Apparantly there was a problem with the firmware in those drives as well - and the actual problem required TWO things to be exactly right. A certain condition in Panther had to exist at the same time as a certain condition in the firewire.

The simple fact of the matter is that no one party is at fault. Things like this happen, and it is impossible to protect against every possible variable that can exist!

As is true with any system - if you have important data that you can't afford to lose - keep it backed up during an upgrade. Backed up to a media that is safe, something like tape or DVD or something like that.

Firewire hard disks are still hard disks and are subject to the same risks as the disks inside the computer...

I was stupid and didn't move some stuff correctly which caused me to do some extra work to get it back after my upgrade... But that was my fault.. Live and learn, eh?

Re:Any problems with 10.3.1 yet? (1)

dpacek (696162) | more than 10 years ago | (#7449953)

I and a bunch of folk have been burning coasters like crazy since 10.2.8 or Itunes 4 or Panther. part of Apples's new strategy to sell more iPods....Break CD and DVD writing

Active directory roaming profiles (2, Informative)

Hunts (116340) | more than 10 years ago | (#7442697)

Since Installing 10.3.1 update, I've been unable to to use any logins that are taken from active directory. A bit of a problem since I use my windows login for my main account :/. I'm now having to login to my mac using the admin account.
Anyone else having this problem?

Free Update ;) (2, Funny)

hexdcml (553714) | more than 10 years ago | (#7443089)

Heh, silly mortal f00ls who paid for their copy of 10.3
I'll just sneaky sneaky download and patch my 10.2.6 system with 10.3.1.

:D Shhh! just don't tell Apple!

Re:Free Update ;) (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 10 years ago | (#7443707)

Er, you can patch your system with 10.3.1, but do you actually get all the enhancements (like Expose) that come with upgrading to Panther?

Re:Free Update ;) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7444084)

apple has some bad compression going to get all those panther CDs into a 1.3 meg download......

Re:Free Update ;) (1)

sinistral (80451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7445381)

Microsoft did it with Sobig. :)

Secure Erase and Defragmentation (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 10 years ago | (#7445128)

Has anyone checked to see if the automatic defragmentation of sub-20 MiB files performs secure erasures of the original sectors? The OS has the ability to empty the trash with secure erasure, but I don't see how that will find the portions of the disk where the file used to reside.

I'm only just now ordering Panther.

I did the upgrade from Developer Preview (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7445266)

Now it wont' boot. I get a circle with a line through it, and the little gray round hot dogs in a circle constantly spinning... serves me right...

powerbook "sleep" light dimmer? (3, Interesting)

ThreeToe (411692) | more than 10 years ago | (#7446416)

This is strange. Ever since I installed 10.3.1, my powerbook's sleep light (y'know, the one on the button to open the screen) has been much, much dimmer. Either my PBG4 is about to explode or Apple decided to chill it out a bit.

Anyone else seen this?

Re:powerbook "sleep" light dimmer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7446874)

Well that's a good thing. The light on my 12" PB is so damn bright it literally keeps my wife awake at night, which leads to spontaneous schtooping, as you might imagine.

Lid closes versus open (3, Informative)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#7448053)

This is strange. Ever since I installed 10.3.1, my powerbook's sleep light (y'know, the one on the button to open the screen) has been much, much dimmer. Either my PBG4 is about to explode or Apple decided to chill it out a bit.

Close the lid, instead of choosing sleep- or close the lid while it's asleep. Believe it or not, "lid open" sleep mode uses a much dimmer light.

I suppose it's possible Apple got a lot of complaints about the brighter mode(I know it was annoying as hell at night in my bedroom, felt like I was about to be abducted by aliens) and just set it to dim all the time.

Re:Lid closes versus open (1)

ThreeToe (411692) | more than 10 years ago | (#7448163)

Interesting. I think the problem is that my latch is very loose and sometimes when the lid is in fact closed the PB thinks it is "open." I've always had a PB12 with a slightly warped screen but it seems to have gotten worse in the past few months. Wonder what to do about it.

And yeah, the bright blue light drove me insane at night. I've taken to putting a towel over the machine while it is charging. Any Mac Haxors out there know how to modify this behavior?

The Update - A One-Man Psychodrama (4, Funny)

thatguywhoiam (524290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7447017)

INT. NIGHTTIME - HOME OFFICE

We see THATGUY, sitting in front of his POWERBOOK. On screen, an ICON is hopping up and down like an overcaffeinated Chihuahua. THATGUY signs heavily.

THATGUY
Oh no... it's here. 10.3.1.

(drums fingers on desk rapidly)

THATGUY
This probably fixes FileVault, and that FireWire bug.

(drums fingers)

THATGUY
And other stuff. Fuck.

In the BG, we hear audio of a CHORUS OF VOICES shouting negatives like NO DON'T DO IT, and ARE YOU INSANE and HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED YOUR LESSON? A single voice becomes louder in the din.

THATGUY
Must... update....

His FINGER reaches for the pulsating UPDATE NOW button.

ALL-POWERFUL SLASHDOT VOICE
Are you seriously going to do that? Really?

THATGUY
But I must! It'll be better... Apple is almost always bet-

APSV (BOOMING)
YOU FOOL. DON'T YOU REMEMBER THE ITUNES BUG? THE 10.2.8 DEBACLE? THE VERY BUGS WE JUST ENCOUNTERED IN PANTHER?? You have got to be the STUPIDEST L0SER EVAR!!11!!1

THATGUY
but... the Panther, she is beautiful, and I must help fix the-

APSV
IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT IF YOU LOOSE YOUR DATA

THATGUY
I have backups!

APSV (BOOMING again)
THOSE CD-RS ONLY HAVE A SHELF LIFE OF 6 YEARS YOU KNOW, SURELY YOU HAVE A WEBDAV-

As the voice is booming, THATGUY reaches and quickly clicks the UPDATE button. A stunned silence. He looks sheepish.

APSV
.....FOOL! YOUR IGNORANCE IS YOUR UNDOING. DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WHEN YOUR DRIVE IS FSCK'D.

THATGUY Well, you wouldn't help me before, now, would you?

APSV
True. FADE OUT

Re:The Update - A One-Man Psychodrama (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7471805)

APSV
IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT IF YOU LOOSE YOUR DATA

An intentional and mischievous mispelling, or just another slashot loser who doesn't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'?

Don't update Panther Beta (2, Informative)

pr0nbot (313417) | more than 10 years ago | (#7452240)

If you're running a Panther Beta, you'll see the 10.3.1 update in software updates. DON'T INSTALL IT. The kernel extensions it installs aren't compatible with the Beta kernel and your machine won't boot.

My developer 7B85 updated to 10.3.1 just fine (1)

Glyndwr (217857) | more than 10 years ago | (#7480625)

I beg to differ. My iBook G3 800 was running 7B85 and refreshed to 10.3.1 absolutely fine. I'm having some issues with the machine not going to sleep when I shut the lid, but those were there under 7B85 and I suspect it's hardware anyway.

Re:Don't update Panther Beta (1)

Night Goat (18437) | more than 10 years ago | (#7491798)

I admire your tenacity. Still beta testing, after the final product has come out? You're hard core.
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