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510 comments

I'M GOING TO BLOW MYSELF UP IN THE NAME OF ISLAM! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459252)

fp jew-lovers!

Re:I'M GOING TO BLOW MYSELF UP IN THE NAME OF ISLA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459263)

You can take your eight-armed elephant god and shove him up yer arse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Re:I'M GOING TO BLOW MYSELF UP IN THE NAME OF ISLA (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459513)

Shut the fuck up white American bastard. We will get all of you, one by one.

Fedora? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459257)

More like Gaydora if you ask me.

LINUX? MORE LIKE 'AIDS' IF YOU ASK ME (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459278)

Linux is DEAD. Long Live *BSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459261)

This is indeed a troll!!

Welcome slashdot community.

Re:Linux is DEAD. Long Live *BSD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459370)

LOL THIS IS REALLY Interesting. I would like to see massive migration to BSD in the next couple of years!

Usability Issues (-1, Insightful)

anaphora (680342) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459272)

The author discusses usability issues with Fedora. This is the number one reason I don't use Linux, I just couldn't get the damn thing to ever work right. I started out on SuSE LiveEval, I wanted to use AIM. Linux AIM didn't work right, gAIM wouldn't compile since I didn't have GCC, and GCC Binaries were 144 megs large. I ended up playing nethack for two hours and rebooting back into Windows. I still love the idea behind Linux, but maybe, just maybe they were right in taking RedHat off the desktop market and saying it just ISN'T READY for desktops...

MOD PARENT UP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459293)

n/t.

PARENT's A TROLL (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459348)

Mod down

Re:PARENT's A TROLL (0, Offtopic)

erroneus (253617) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459484)

Well I guess you would know better than anyone else whether or not your parent is a troll, but really... isn't a troll a mythical creature? Of course, I once thought midgets weren't real... that they were clever camera tricks first developed for the then famous "Willy Wonka" movie that, when I was four years old, I found to be both creepy and frightening.

But let's assume that trolls are still classified as mythical creatures and that you are aware of this fact. I can only assume that you are attempting to insult your parent which I find is rather disrespectful, though paradoxical in a way since if you parent was good, you would have been taught better than to call your parent a troll. Further, you are insulting yourself at the same time as your parent often defines your expectations of life and in a real sense, your identity.

Oh wait... you mean the message was written to spur a negative reaction from the readership. Oh, I get it now...

Re:Usability Issues (2, Interesting)

Ianoo (711633) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459354)

Why were you trying to compile things when using a binary distribution?

Re:Usability Issues (3, Insightful)

rco3 (198978) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459357)

Well. Good thing you finally told me. Here I've been running Linux on my desktop for years, thinking it worked. Silly me.

I have never had any trouble finding pre-compiled binaries for gaim. Not when I was running SuSE, not now that I'm running Mandrake.

But no, I was wrong. You, with your two hours of NetHack, you have brought me to the light. It's back to Windows for me. Thank you, oh gods of astroturf.

My interpretation? Not having software installed != usability issues. Last time I checked, Windows didn't come with a compiler installed either... and to run AIM, you had to install pre-compiled binaries. But Linux must be unusable if your demo CD doesn't have everything you ever wanted to use pre-installed.

Doofus. Seriously. Your logic sucks ass. Think before you troll^W^W^W^W^W post, OK?

Re:Usability Issues (2, Insightful)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459395)

"Well. Good thing you finally told me. Here I've been running Linux on my desktop for years, thinking it worked. Silly me."

Don't brush off criticism like that. Whether he's trolling or not, this "no no it works just fine!" attitude is one of the reasons I don't want to switch to Linux. I don't like being treated like a lying asshole because I have a problem with a solution that's disgustingly obvious to everybody who's climbed the Linux learning curve.

Re:Usability Issues (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459431)

All you need to do is find a furry tooth Linux geek and eat his brain, thus gaining his ability to put up with install instructions that include the phrase "fix compiler errors".

Re:Usability Issues (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459411)

Oh look, a condescending linux user. How new.

Re:Usability Issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459577)

Honestly, off-topic or no, and sarcasm aside, I think that's one of the bigger problems with getting Linux to the desktop user: people like the fellow in the grandparent post, riding their high horses in ivory towers.

Re:Usability Issues (1)

Liselle (684663) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459376)

I was underwhelmed by Fedora as well. I'm pretty technically inclined, but I am a complete Linux newbie. I have an old machine that I ressurected solely to toy around with Linux and expand my horizons, as it were, so I figured that Fedora would be decent, seeing as it's based on the market leader. It had a pretty-looking install, but that's where I stop giving praise.

I'm looking forward to a nifty Linux distro that's easy to use and that I can sink my teeth into without having to jump through hoops. It deserves to be on the desktop. I don't see it happening with this shot of Fedora though, uninformed my opinion my be. I'll be following it and seeing if they'll be making my life easier.

Re:Usability Issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459499)

I'm pretty technically inclined, but I am a complete Linux newbie

This distro isn't for you.

Re:Usability Issues (1)

Liselle (684663) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459540)

This distro isn't for you.

Well, it's good to see you've reached the same conclusion that I did, but it's sort of stating the obvious, no?

Re:Usability Issues (2, Informative)

optikSmoke (264261) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459573)

I'm looking forward to a nifty Linux distro that's easy to use and that I can sink my teeth into without having to jump through hoops.

I would suggest you try Mandrake 9.2. It is by far the best linux distro I've ever used. It is extremely powerful (software installation is made easy by urpmi and urpmi-based tools, similar to apt-get), and it can run de facto "industry-standard" RedHat software with ease (since it was originally based on RedHat). And, as of the latest version (I've been using it for a couple of releases on my desktop system) it is quite user-friendly. The 9.x releases have been good, but 9.2 truly is excellent in the usability department IMHO.

Re:Usability Issues (1)

fault0 (514452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459612)

> I'm pretty technically inclined, but I am a complete Linux newbie.

Fedora (and RH) were never made for such people. Try Mandrake.

Re:Usability Issues (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459403)

apt-get install gaim
emerge gaim
urpmi gaim
pkg_add -rv gaim
etc...

learn how to use the very basic tools before complaining that you can't get the damn thing done. you don't need to compile gaim to get it to work on windows, and you don't need to compile it on unix.
2 years ago i was exactly in your situation. 1 month later i finally realised how fool i was. in 1 month time probably you will realise it too.

Re:Usability Issues (2)

stevew158 (686944) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459419)

i installed fedora late sunday night and have had good luck with it so far. It seems to be a nice operating system and i got all the applications I wanted to run going in a few hours. Even got Wanda the Gnome fish to work with some help from the Fedora chat room at www.freenode.net. Thanks for a good 1st run all you guys at fedora

Re:Usability Issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459478)

I'd hardly call getting Wanda the Gnome fish a chat-room task. If you had trouble getting that working, there's something seriously wrong with Fedora.

Re:Usability Issues (1)

petabyte (238821) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459464)

Hmm, well, they're already starting to flame you so instead of jumping on that bandwagon I'll try and be more usefull as I write this from my Gentoo Linux desktop system *cough*.

Many of your complaints don't seem to affect Knoppix which is a live cd distro that includes KDE and gaim and gcc as well. If you want to go the other way, well, I believe they make a version of nethack that will run on windows :).

Oh and I think RedHat was plenty ready for desktops. I just don't think they would have made money there. If they want to go enterprise thats fine by me as, well, I'll still use other distros.

Re:Usability Issues (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459507)

You couldn't get anything to work right with linux, and yet you like Nethack? Thats insane. Linux is much easier to figure out than nethack.

Re:Usability Issues (2, Insightful)

be-fan (61476) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459508)

First, AOL's Linux version of AIM bites. Its unavoidable --- you have to understand which apps are popular for what. Its the same in Windows, its just that you already have experience with it, so you know that you should use Winzip or whatever.

Second, why were you trying to compile? SuSE has binaries of gaim. Just start up YaST, go to the installer, and install the gaim program.

Re:Usability Issues (1)

sisukapalli1 (471175) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459523)

I think you are trolling, but...

This is what I do when I install a linux distro:

(a) install *everything* -- disk space is not a big issue, and most services are typically not on by default
(b) whenever I need something new that I didn't do with linux (e.g. linux exploring Windows neighbourhood -- like Windows' "network places"), I do a quick search on google groups, get some answer in a minute, look at the menus, and it's almost always there
(c) most of the important software is avaliable pre-packaged from many places (simple search on google for the relevant package very often results in a quick solution)

Re:Usability Issues (1)

nemesisj (305482) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459618)

I agree with everything you said - redhat is not ready for the desktop, in my experience. RPMs are a nightmare to find and install, and compiling is really bad on redhat.

A friend got me turned on the Debian a few months ago, and now I'm a true linux convert - I run Debian and even have WINE for things I can't live without like War3 and Photoshop.

Debian makes installing almost entirely painless - you just type "apt-get install packagename" and that's it. Such a joy - it figures out your dependencies and everything.

The only beef I have with Debian is the install process, but even that's ok.

If you'd like some help, just shoot me an email or something.

Eugenia? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459273)

Should have known.

RedHat is dead... (-1)

Clippy (691243) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459283)

...long live SuSE.

bummer (1)

Sad Loser (625938) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459285)


I have been with RedHat since 5.1, and so the question becomes: Debian or Suse?

I need a very stable predictable platform, so maybe Debian, now it has a better intaller for a non-ubergeek like me, is the way to go.

Re:bummer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459325)

I need a very stable predictable platform

What, are you hosting psychicfriends.com [psychicfriends.com] ?

Re:bummer (1)

Pengo (28814) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459341)

Yup, trying to figure out same thing myself.

I have ran debian in the past but have had problems with Java running w/out segfaults on it without manually updating some of the base libraries, etc. Maybe it's better now, but I might just jump ship from redhat to SuSE for all my needs.

From what I have seen , SuSE doesn't lack anything redhat has, just free downloads. I guess it wouldn't hurt me to have to cough up money for a base release.

mandrake just doesn't seem like a reasonable option to use for work/server environment on stable production servers.

I guess I will be running redhat for the next 12 months as I slowly migrate to my only aparant option SuSE.

Re:bummer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459397)

since 5.1 and still afriad to try debian? what are you a pussy?

i am not an anonymous coward i just dont like to reg for stuff. (=

Re:bummer (0, Flamebait)

hdparm (575302) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459519)

Well, perhaps you need to try Fedora rather than making decision based on half-assed Mac / XP user's review.

Re:bummer (1)

slide-rule (153968) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459580)

I'm with ya... at least in the sense that I've been with RH since 5.2. I just let my "demo account" with RH lapse, being official as of today. Personally, while I can probably manage to hack, beat, and sweat my way through most any distro, I've got far more important things to do, and I've fallen in love with Mandrake. (yeah, 9.2 has more gotchas than people ever expected out of MDK, and I got bit by a few things during- and post-installation, but it is/was still *way* better than any experience I had with RH.) If you don't want to be uber-geek, give it some thought. I heard someone summarize thusly: "Redhat is like the Microsoft of Linux ... Mandrake is like the Mac of Linux", and my opinions thus far bear this out as rather accurate. Just one data point for you to ponder, even though you enumerated your choices as only debian or suse. *shrug*

Re:bummer - Just Say No to being RedHat's Testbed (1)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459604)

After RedHat giving me the shaft, I've been trying out various distros (Slackware, Debian, Fedora, Mandrake) for the past month, and Mandrake seems very good - Debian kernel, libraries and ports too old, and SuSE doesn't have free ISO's to burn CD to try out (yes I have been buying RedHat since 5.x). Mandrake is the first distro to recognize everything in my system without manual configuration of mouse, xfree86, CD writer. only rough spot thus far is changing permissions on /proc/bus/ to world read-execute and /proc/bus/usb so that normal user can use USB camera.

Re:bummer (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459620)

For less expereienced users, I'd say go SuSE. Pay a few dollars and get a slick easy to use product.

For folks with more compiles under their belt and who don't mind getting dirty hands, Debian is pretty sweet, and Gentoo is a very cool option as well.

Only to be expected, really (4, Insightful)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459288)

... I mean how many distributions are perfect, the first time around. RHN is available up until April, which gives them a bit of time to sot things out, if they're expecting a big migration from RH to fedora...

Simon.

Re:Only to be expected, really (4, Insightful)

GlassHeart (579618) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459625)

I mean how many distributions are perfect, the first time around.

I thought one major advantage of free software was that we could afford to release only when ready, rather than when the marketing department demanded? The article wasn't demanding "perfect". Some RPMs included in the distribution that wouldn't install!

I'm not anti-Linux. I like it so much that I want us to use on it the same (or higher) standards we judge software we pay for.

Having used (1, Flamebait)

jeffkjo1 (663413) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459289)

Having used Fedora (for roughly 3 minutes before fleeing); I must say it is completely unimpressive. Perhaps I haven't kept up with redhat as much as I should have, but I expected it to be a bit more intuitive.

As a slack user I wasn't expecting the world, hell, I wasn't even expecting North America... but I wanted a little more than the Canadian province of Ontario.

Re:Having used (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459440)

Um, Ontario is pretty fucking big and is home to some 12 million people. Unfortunate choice of province to make your point...

Re:Having used (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459568)

yeah. he shoulda said Ontario, California, eh?
hoser.

Thats because Fedora uses Gnome by Default. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459295)

Ever since Gnome 2.4 was released, I have found more and more gnome zealots who MUST absolutely advocate GNOME at every possible moment. Here is a guide to some of their claims, and what they really mean.

Unlike KDE, Gnome is free
Translation : GPL is freerer than LGPL. LGPL allows corporations like Novell and Sun to have propeitry forks and lock away their changes from the user. Now that Novell has taken over Ximian you can expect Gnome to get put under corpirate lock. With KDE you have the choice, you either PAY UP or pay with your source code.

Nautilus is much better than konqueror.
Wrong, if your using nautilus for anything more than a simple finder clone you can forget it. No split screen, no ioslaves and forget about being able to have a decent file dialog, not to forget that it is as unstable as hell and is STILL slow on >3 Ghz machines.

Gnome is easier to use
Yep, nothing like using gconf-editor to edit all except the most trivial of settings. Want tear off menus? Want a useable file dialog? You won't find it here.

Gnome has eye candy
Yes, my pirated Win32 fonts with the patent infringing font renderer. Bit stream vera sans looks like Tahoma put through a shreadder! Of course I still reboot into windows to print using "Comic Sans MS.

Gnome has a new web browser
Yawb! Along with Galeon, mozilla, thunderbird, konqueror, atlantis, lynx, netscape and w3m. Yes I need another browser! Not to mention that its got a religiously offensive name and it dosen't allow bookmark folders. It also crashes like a crazy! Apple chose khtml for a REASON! its stable and light!

Gnome is themeable
Yep, choose from High, low and medium contrast, default, and clean ice. Wan't to change the colour scheme? USE GCONF NOOB, plus if you complain about it we will tell you to fuck [gnomedesktop.org] off [gnomesupport.org] and go back to Windows [apple.com] or KDE [kde.org] .

Gnome has multimedia framework
Its a kludge of esd combined with broken xine libraries. No wonder it crashes all the time and dosen't work on 95% of video files

Gnome allows mac like operation.
x86 compatible 1 button mice are almost impossible to find, and it dosen't copy the whole macbar concept. Not to even mention their auto apply implementation is broken and dangerous! Plus if they did actually come anywhere close to copying the Mac the C&D letters would come flying up their asses.

Gnome is GNU software.
gnu/Yay, gnu/gnome gnu/for gnu/my gnu/debian gnu/linux gnu/500mhz /gnu/celeron gnu/packard gnu/bell gnu/box.

Inspired by the gentoo translate-o-matic.

Good points but .. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459542)

.. when will GNOME become usable ?

Fedora is buggy indeed (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459296)

The article finds me in agreement. Fedora is just too buggy for my taste. I tried it a few days ago and I also saw some of the bugs presented in the article (like the app installer not recognizing its own RPMs for the fedora CDs most notably).

Oh, well, back to Debian...

Expected Outcome (1, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459298)

Desktop linux is now unimportant to Redhat, so we should expect any efforts from them in that market to be dismal, at best.

They have moved on from their customer base, so its time for us to move on to something else that has a longer term future on the desktop, be it Debian, Slackware, even *BSD..

( just sort of suprised it happened THIS fast.. )

Nov18th - be there (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459305)

Don't miss Darl McBride at the Computer Digital Expo, Nov 18th. He will be speaking at 5pm.

Link to Expo website [cdxpo.com]

Seriously, please go see him. He is a highly intelligent man that, despite how he has been villianized here, truly cares about OSS. The recent legal activity has been motivated as much by his desire to fix what is wrong with open source as by his desire to represent the financial interests of SCO.

Once you hear him speak, you'll understand why he holds so much sway with CIOs everywhere. You might even change your mind about who is right and who is wrong in this whole ugly mess.

They've gone elsewhere (5, Insightful)

bahamat (187909) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459312)

The community of dedicated bug reporters/developers has largely shifted to Debian. Most users of RH/Fedora don't want to file a bug report when they find one. They want it to be fixed long before they ever have the chance to find it. I know a lot of people who use RH, and none of them are inclined to file bug reports. The bulk of technical Debian users run unstable, and submit bug reports as often as they encounter problems. I think the reality of the situation is that the strength of the community isn't in RedHat any longer.

Re:They've gone elsewhere (5, Funny)

RevDobbs (313888) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459391)

Funny, my girlfriend also rated me as a "Mild Disappointment". I too, cited a lack QA testing, but she just wasn't hearing it.

The community of dedicated bug reporters/developers has largely shifted to Debian.

Man... if only I could find a whole community of QA testers...

Re:They've gone elsewhere (1)

cdc179 (561916) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459531)

Right on. I have even had others see my bug reports in Debian(unstable) and contact me to see if I found a solution.

Bug reports will get seen by more eyes with Debian and get fixed faster!

Re:They've gone elsewhere (1)

kurtb149 (578487) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459556)

I have been using Fedora as my workstation for a month now and it is simply wonderful: support for dual monitors, free up2date, the latest Gnome software, prelinking, hyperthreading support, etc.

unofficial #fedora FAQ (4, Informative)

jroysdon (201893) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459316)

Those from the #fedora IRC channel on irc.freenode.net have started an unofficial FAQ.

I highly suggest browsing through the various issues others have had, before you decide to upgrade from RH or try a fresh install.

fedora.artoo.net [artoo.net] .

Re:unofficial #fedora FAQ (2, Informative)

jroysdon (201893) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459433)

BTW: We the FAQ contains info for nVidia [artoo.net] and RhythmBox [artoo.net] .

You'd think the guy would at least try RedHat's suggested support mechanism: irc://irc.freenode.net#fedora [irc] where we link to this unofficial FAQ and will help users solve these problems.

Folks there have been solving these questions as they pop up. Sometimes there is no fix, sometimes it turns out to be something stupid in FC1 that shouldn't be that way, but it is a .0 release, and there often are work-arounds or fixes.

Problems? Well yeah.... (5, Insightful)

Raxxon (6291) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459328)

It's something from RedHat. RedHat has had problems since the dark ages with x.0 releases, which is what Fedora basically is.

I'm having code compile issues because of the new linking setup myself. Code the compiled perfectly under RHL 9 blows up on FC1.... Can't say I didn't expect this to be a problem free migration. Reminds me of when RH first kicked out the glib updates... Code all over the place blew up left and right until everything else started updating.

Not bad for a V1... (2, Interesting)

DraKKon (7117) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459336)

Although is not RedHat Linux 10, its pretty good for a v1.0 ... 1.1 or 2 should be pretty kick ass.. at least I hope..

Re:Not bad for a V1... (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459458)

So if I take something at version 10 and rename it version 1, it's suddenly more forgivable if it sucks?

Anyway, that said, I think Fedora Core 1 is pretty nice, there is definitely more responsiveness, it looks like all those lowlatency patches and stuff are finally paying off, before Fedora test .95 or so, I really didn't see much difference, in fact it seemed worse, my xmms would skip a lot when changing desktops, and the kernel wouldn't let me nice anything, it would always renice X if I tried to give it less priority to keep xmms from skipping.

Re:Not bad for a V1... (1)

baximus (552800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459534)

I totally agree - I installed test3 and had very few problems with it. I then opted to replace my RH9 installation with FC1 almost immediately when it was released. So many things that took a lot of work in RH9 made it into the It Just Works department in FC1. Yes, there are still a few minor issues, but a lot less that in previous RedHats (which, ROCKED, in their own right, don't get me wrong).

Of course, this being slashdot, most of this discussion will be made of of (FreeBSD|Gentoo|Debian|SuSE|Mandrake|*) Zealots making the case for their distro, without taking an objective look at FC to judge it for it's worth.

Eugina = The Troll Queen! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459338)

Eugina is an anti-Linux troll, and a MacOS/BeOS Fangirl. Around 50% of her "articles" always critisize Linux but praises MacOS/BeOS like a Zealot. Ever notice that the "Report Abuse" button dosen't exist on her posts? Don't read OSNews, you WILL get burned by her trolling.

Re:Eugina = The Troll Queen! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459389)

Funny you say that, because I read in many other stories on osnews how Euginia is also an anti-MacOS troll and an anti-BeOS troll. All you have to do is read more stories and see how people are not happy with anything.

If Eugenia is seen as infamous, it is because it does something right: being critical when finds problems and praising when is due. But the real OS zealots don't want to hear anything negative about their beloved OS, and so they put the blame on her instead. It is easier that way.

I agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459566)

Even worse she acts like a nazi on OSNEWS. Forces her shit up on others. Not just that, she now started to post blog entries from some morons.

Fedora buggy (1)

stone2020 (123807) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459340)

Is it really that big of a surprise? Did you think they would get it perfect the first time it comes out? The question is whether the Redhat lovers of the world will fix it up or just buy Suse?

It's bad because... (0)

herrvinny (698679) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459345)

Nobody is working on it anymore. Without Red Hat's active support, forget about it. Everybody's switched to working on other Linux distros. Fedora is going to die out, and Red Hat Enterprise edition is going to die soon after that because the Red Hat people won't have any testers and people writing code for free for them.

What a shock (4, Insightful)

ViceClown (39698) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459356)

Another thumbs down from Eugenia Loli-Queru. This from the person who gave a sorta-review of Suse based on screen shots. Give me a break. Sorry for the flames but I stopped reading OSNews long ago because of her half assed ramblings. Let Ars or something get ahold of Fedora and then I'll know Im getting a well thought out review... good or bad. Next...

Re:What a shock (1)

GreyWolf3000 (468618) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459532)

Great. Shoot the messenger, and not the message.

Personal feelings aside, criticisms of this article should not exceed it's scope.

Re:What a shock (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459549)

It's not just her, I've seen many other half-baked reviews from that site. In generally it just seems like the writers don't know jack about the things they write about.

I agree to you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459587)

Eugenia is really a cancer on OSNEWS. So much unqualified shit.

Re:What a shock (5, Interesting)

*SECADM (223955) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459619)

Ars says "...After using it throughout the beta cycle, we can say that would be true if it wasn't for one small problem -- Fedora rocks. Hard." [arstechnica.com]

I don't trust Eugenia either. She seems much more obsessed with screenshots and themes than anything else(such as usability).

Heheh (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459359)

My disappointment started when I tried to upgrade Gaim 0.71 to 0.72. The third party Shrike RPM wouldn't work because of pspell dependancy problems. Downloading pspell and compiling it manually wouldn't work either as libpspell-modules were nowhere to be found in the newly compiled archive. So I decided to download the source of Gaim and compile it myself. All went fine with Gaim's compilation except the MSN plugin wouldn't load because gnuTLS that provides SSL to Gaim was not installed. I got to gnuTLS' FTP site downloaded the source, only to ask me for libcrypt. Downloaded the source of libcrypt, only to ask me for the source of GnuPG. I downloaded the gnupg, compiled fine, went back to libcrypt, only to bail out badly with severe compiling errors.

The author must not have RTFMed. Obviously, this is a troll. Open source software is perfect, and this is no big deal. Linux is definitely ready for the desktop, and M$ is teh sux. Let's just all ignore it. Oh, look! Over there! Another M$/$CO/RIAA/GNAA/MPAA/AAA story!!! Let's go!!!

So what's new? (3, Insightful)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459371)


> since Red Hat has shifted focus to Enterprise, with Fedora serving merely as a testbed for them.

That was kinda my impression of RH9, for that matter.

Corporate Improvements! (4, Interesting)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459374)

This is why people like me were bitching about Red hat's shift in focus.

Sure, Red Hat Enterprise Linux will be all but bulletproof and stable, but what about those of us who aren't using linux to displace Solaris or NT Servers?

What about those of us who want to do a little Gimping or serve our home LANs? At the risk of drawing the fire of the distro zealots, this is the precise reason why I switched to Mandrake at about the same time as RHAT's IPO.

LK

Forget about using gnuPG for gaim... (3, Informative)

MarcoAtWork (28889) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459378)

recompile using the mozilla nss and nspr libraries (there was a post on the gaim mailing list about how to do that) which is much easier to get to work.

Now, if anybody could find out how to compile galeon 1.2.x with Mozilla 1.4 or, better, 1.5 I'm all ears, I've tried the CVS version and no dice (and no, I'm not moving to Galeon 2, which is FAR less useable than galeon 1.2, I'm wondering if the developers actually -use- the thing)

Re:Forget about using gnuPG for gaim... (1)

BobaFett (93158) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459447)

Fairly straightforward: get galeon-1.2.11 or later, and run ./configure --help from the build directory.
There are a couple options for mozilla: --with-mozilla-snapshot=1.4 and two more, mozilla libs and include directories. You need to specify them all, point to /usr/lib/mozilla-1.4 or wherever it's installed. You can even edit the RPM spec for galeon and add these parameters to configure, and it'll build from there.

Ok, she lost me here: (1)

dameron (307970) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459381)

Applications indeed start pretty fast and especially some third party statically-linked apps (e.g. Lost Marble's Moho or Blender) load immediately. I have never seen Moho load so fast, not even on BeOS (which was its original platform).

Really putting that distro through the paces huh... :)

-dameron

Fedora Fine for Me (5, Interesting)

Sir Kewl (657440) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459382)

I am using Fedora right now to write this comment. While some of the bugs mentioned in the article are valid points, I have no problems with multimedia playback, using yum and rpm.livna.org to download mplayer, xine and xmms-mp3 was quite painless. Perhaps the author should have subscribed to the fedora mailing list before he tried the distro. The RPM problem has been fixed, installation of ATI 3D drivers was painless.

I just want to give a big THANK YOU to the whole Fedora team. The release had its problems but I am happy with my setup!

No offense to Eugenia (4, Interesting)

YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT (651184) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459406)

But I wish there were more people writing distro reviews. OSNews seems to be one of the few sources that get any play on here, ( heck, they may be one of the few sources full stop ), and it would be nice if we could get some variety of opinion / requirements / analysis from a variety of different viewpoints.

The gaming, productivity and utility software industries have hundreds of review sites spanning all over the web, and while I recognise that individual distro releases rarely represent as big a market impact to Joe Public as, say, the latest iD game, it would be nice to see a bit more heterogeny.

Just another thought - these reviews all seem to have to rush themselves, and rarely have time to evaluate long term issues or strengths that arise after a bit of persistant use ~ an example has been the recent rave reviews in the print media of Panther, which I adore, but had several showstopper bugs in .0 which nobody seemed to pick up on until they starting munching on user preferences for breakfast.

YLFI
p.s. Worst run on sentance ever.

Author's history.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459428)

The author has had more than a few of her OS reviews posted on /. and honestly, even the better ones can be described as 'mildly' received.

Use it properly. (5, Interesting)

reaper20 (23396) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459445)

This "review" is fundamentally flawed, because I have no idea where in the release notes or Fedora FAQs it states to do what she did to this box, this reads like a whine-fest because Red Hat did not fix her favorite bugs:

a) So, the first thing she does is install a third party RPM and then wonders why it blows up in her face? How about the RPMs that came with the distribution? So, the install is brand new already broken in a VMWare installation.

b) Why is she using apt and synaptic? They don't even come with Fedora.

c) The RPM from Sun installs the JVM in all the Mozilla browser's (I didn't install KDE so I can't speak for Konqueror) and even integrates into the GNOME menu.

d) The well known limitations of Fedora's multimedia capabilities plague every linux distribution. It's not Fedora's fault that US laws suck. It's as easy to add multimedia in Fedora as it is in debian, you add one non-free source and you're done.

Here's a hint, if you're the kind of person that worries about moving from gaim .71 to .72 right after you install your distribution, then Fedora probably is not for you. Or you could wait until updated RPMs hit the official repositories instead of grabbing Joe Bob's RPM build and wondering why your installation exploded.

Re:Use it properly. (1)

sethadam1 (530629) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459511)

b) Why is she using apt and synaptic? They don't even come with Fedora.

uh, yes it does [fedora.us] .

Re:Use it properly. (3, Informative)

reaper20 (23396) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459574)

Not in the default desktop installation -- yum however is included, with the /etc/yum.conf already setup. Even the little up2date applet (the blue one that turns red) comes out of the box talking to yum.

There's no need for apt on a Fedora installation at all.

Thank you (2, Informative)

crush (19364) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459548)

Eugenia is obviously interested in banging the same old drum again and again ..... some of these points were made to her the last time she reviewed RH9 and RH8 and yet she appears incapable of learning that RH is _not_ going to come with MP3 support until the IP situation is sorted.

She was also told that she should use official RPMs and yet she continues to ignore thsi.

I used to look at OSNews occasionally, but I think I just won't bother as it's irritation without information.

(Oh yeah ... Debian is my primary OS in case anyone is wondering).

Good job Fedora Core.

This isn't too bad... (1)

Qweezle (681365) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459450)

I doubt this will affect Red Hat, the company, in any way. It will very insignificantly affect Red Hat, the Linux development team. This is, as is said, just a test bed.

Look at Lindows, it took 3 previous incarnations to get to a version that was even worth paying anything for, version 4.0(that's still arguable).

What I'm saying here, is that let's just give Fedora a little bit of time, and it'll definitely mature, because Red Hat knows what they're doing.

Gaim (4, Informative)

Espectr0 (577637) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459472)

If she would have read Gaim's page, she would have learned that gaim needs mozilla's NSS and NSPR to get ssl support for the msn plugin.

Who cares ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459473)

Who the fuck cares what Eugenia and her 'OSNEWS full of bias' shit crapsite rates it.

How will IBM deal with it if Fedora is a dud? (3, Interesting)

darnok (650458) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459488)

My understanding is that IBM currently recommends either SuSE or Redhat for its Linux customers, depending on where the customer is based. Given that lots of "big" customers have small offices in the boondocks, what are they going to recommend?

Small site typically equates to "we want it cheap, we want it reliable and we want it now. Even though we're part of a big company, head office says we have to keep our costs very low. If we don't we shut up shop". Once you add up lots of small sites, they actually carry a bit of clout in a large organization; you'd better be able to deliver a solution that fits their needs if you want to retain that customer. Quite often, a small site exists solely to service one big customer; global HQ wants to keep that small site happy.

Non-enterprise RedHat fit the bill perfectly for small sites, but SuSE might be too expensive given the lack of a download-only release. I'd assume IBM was hoping Fedora might be a good substitute for non-enterprise RedHat, but if not, which way will they turn?

Re:How will IBM deal with it if Fedora is a dud? (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459579)

People who ask IBM for recommendations and support are generally the kind of people that want RH Enterprise Linux.

You are correct though, in that Red Hat is abandoning an entire market of small sites that don't want or need Enterprise Linux, they only need errata and more than 12 months of it.

OSNews (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459490)

I never believe a word posted on OSNews. The bad reviews of Fedora are only to be expected... you see, Red Hat has a number of enemies who have been waiting for the chance to slit its throat.

  1. Debianites -- Debian has long fumed at the fact that they are shown up in every catagorey by Red Hat -- in fact, the only thing that unites the bickering hordes at Debian is their hatred of Red Hat. Debianites criticise the most successful Linux distro incessantly... despite the fact that, without the huge amount of work done by Red Hat, Debian would be even more primitive than it already is.
  2. SuSEbots -- SuSE supporters are notorious for their hatred of Red Hat and, not unlike Debianites , take every opportunity to criticise it... for any reason. The only difference is that they don't spend the rest of their time wanking over the Debian Free Software Guidelines.
  3. KDE zealots -- Red Hat never had the KDE faith. So it must be destroyed. No matter that they invested huge amounts of effort into the kernel and GCC... the bastards made a theme (Bluecure) that made KDE and GNOME look similar. They must die. KDE zealots are notorious for their mad ranting and total inability to reason.

So, as you can see... Fedora could be the finest Linux distro ever released, and it would still be a "disappointment" to these people.

Re:OSNews (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459592)

>The bad reviews of Fedora are only to be expected.

I don't think so:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5066

Me too... (1)

jmkaza (173878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459526)

I've been waiting, and excited, about Fedora from the time I first heard about the project. An avid RedHat fan since 7.2, I was looking to Fedora to be a similar functioning distro, with more current default packages, and the same level of stability I'd come to expect with Red Hat. It isn't. I ran into the same problems with Flash and resolving dependencies from the CDROM. The menus and taskbar paused and came up jerky, and the overall distro seemed far from polished. I respect that the author spent enough time with it to discover even more problems. I gave up far earlier. I loved Red Hat 9. I swore by it. Now, for the first time since I started using Linux, I find myself looking at what's the best distro for me. I'm disappointed that by saying "we're focusing on the enterprise" they really meant "we're abandoning our current user base". I hate to say it, but on the projects I work on in the future, I think I'll be abandoning Red Hat. Can't wait to see what Novell/Suse will come up with together.

this distro, that distro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459527)

Look, RedHat is not Linux. There are plenty of other
linux distributions out there. I have been running
Slackware since 1995, and I have never been able to
understand all the hoopla about RedHat.

If Fedora sucks, maybe this will get a few people to
go try some of the other distros out there. There
are better distros than RedHat for just about
every purpose.

Shoot, whaddya think, all the people running DebIan
and Slackware are just idiots? Maybe you bought a
little RedHat FUD, eh?

Remove Gnome from Fedora (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459575)

And become a KDE distro. Redhat has stalled the desktop market by using gnome (don't argue, Gnome IS worse than KDE until they dump gconf and that file dialog). Then, with a real desktop environment to use, People will actually be able to use Fedora.

Go easy folks! (5, Insightful)

OldBen (14811) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459589)

It's strange to me how everyone is jumping on RedHat about Fedora. First how RedHat "abandoned the community" when they EOL'ed RedHat Linux, and how crying betrayal because what amounts to the 1.0 release of a new distribution has a few bugs? Take a breath, folks!

Fedora represents a shift to a new development model which is more community centric; of COURSE there are going to be problems with the 1.0 release. Is that a reason to bag the whole thing and declare it dead? Please!

I'm running Fedora 1.0 on a couple of machines. While there are a couple of quirks, I'd say that overall it's a fine distribution, and an improvement from RH 9.0. I'm certainly going to give it more than a week before I condemn the whole project! Meantime I'm going to reflect on the fact, that people seem to like to forget, that the whole OSS community owes a debt of gratitude to RedHat. RedHat has consistently failed to live up to conspiracy theories about "betraying the community".

No shocker here, Eugeina hates a RedHat distro (1)

christooley (215314) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459597)

Has she ever given any RedHat product a good review? I'll bet that a lifelong Mac user gives Windows bad reviews too.

Suse and Redhat (1)

budGibson (18631) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459607)

At home, I moved off of a Redhat 9 that broke my USB keyboard to Suse. I like Suse at home. Web surfing is better than it ever was under Redhat, and it makes a point of getting fonts right.

However, for the office workstation, I went for RH WS. Why? I like the blue curve interface, and I like the promised performance improvements. Further, Suse seems a little bit behind on security (passwords of 8 characters and a more limited character set).

I would have liked it if RH had maintained a decent, not super expensive, consumer edition. That's how I got into Linux. Perhaps RH thinks that demand will now come from the corporate sector and then push into the home sector again. They're cutting costs. Will the resulting market be big enough to sustain the current cost structure?

Remove Gnome from Fedora (Socre : 5, Insightful) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7459609)

And become a KDE distro. Redhat has stalled the desktop market by using gnome (don't argue, Gnome IS worse than KDE until they dump gconf and that file dialog). Then, with a real desktop environment to use, People will actually be able to use Fedora.

Purple Hat (2, Funny)

Neo-Rio-101 (700494) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459610)

You know, I think a feathered purple pimp fedora would be better suited for this distro rather than the Red Hat.

See, Fedora is pimped out with all the latest stuff... but underneath the covers the system is cheap and sleazy.

I tried updating my RH9 with Fedora, and it totally trashed Mozilla. I go type in something in the URL... and Mozilla vanished!

Plays to expectations (1)

smchris (464899) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459616)


I used StarOffice on OS/2 and Windows back when a native OS/2 version was current. Yet I didn't like OpenOffice 1.0 much. It would blink out quite often on my machine -- reinstalls and repairs notwithstanding. But I'm seriously bonding with OpenOffice 1.1.

Looks like Fedora is offering a similar experience. Here are hopes for a better 1.1.

So what did she expect? (1)

PhilipPeake (711883) | more than 10 years ago | (#7459627)

RedHat have given up on Linux for the masses, and are now only interested in you if you fit into one of two categories:

You are an enterprise willing to cough up several hundred dollars per Linux load.

You are a nerd who is dumb enough to take Fedora, QA it for them, and (hopefuly) provide them with fixes for whatever problems you discover.

This isn't Open Source give and take, its Open Source exploitation. As soon as Fedora starts to look somwhat stable, thanks to the hard work of the people who fix it, it will get replaced with the next release which will contain yet more code that RH is hoping you will fix for them. The nice stable code will then find its way into the enterprise releases - which you will have to buy if you want to reap the rewards of the hard work by the OS community.

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