Gore Vidal Savages Electronic Voting
CmdrTaco posted about 11 years ago | from the something-to-think-about dept.
1029
gribbly writes "aging author and social critic Gore Vidal savaged electronic voting in an interview with the LA Weekly. The interview deals mainly with (what's wrong with) the Bush Administration, but halfway down he says: 'We don't want an election without a paper trail...all three owners of the companies who make these machines are donors to the Bush administration. Is this not corruption?'."
did you know (-1, Offtopic)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467150)
now you know.
it's not offtopic (-1, Offtopic)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467354)
It's true!
Come on Gore.. (-1, Offtopic)
grub (11606) | about 11 years ago | (#7467167)
How much press will it get, though? (5, Insightful)
Denyer (717613) | about 11 years ago | (#7467168)
Re:How much press will it get, though? (-1)
shaka999 (335100) | about 11 years ago | (#7467197)
Media = liberal
Voting machine companies = conservative
Re:How much press will it get, though? (1, Troll)
DAldredge (2353) | about 11 years ago | (#7467236)
* we do not include Rush, talk radio, or Fox News (Number 1 in cable news) in our def of the media.
Re:How much press will it get, though? (3, Insightful)
javiercero (518708) | about 11 years ago | (#7467292)
Jeez if the media is "liberal" in American I just do not wanna think about how much those poor conservatives must struggle to get their point of view accross the news....
Re:How much press will it get, though? (1)
magarity (164372) | about 11 years ago | (#7467294)
Re:How much press will it get, though? (1)
mcmonkey (96054) | about 11 years ago | (#7467411)
So what you're saying is, the "media" doesn't exist!
Re:How much press will it get, though? (1)
fenix down (206580) | about 11 years ago | (#7467422)
Re:How much press will it get, though? (3, Interesting)
GMontag (42283) | about 11 years ago | (#7467315)
Re:How much press will it get, though? (3, Funny)
Rick.C (626083) | about 11 years ago | (#7467218)
But at least the press leaves a paper trail.
Re:How much press will it get, though? (3, Interesting)
HungWeiLo (250320) | about 11 years ago | (#7467391)
Re:How much press will it get, though? (1)
Usquebaugh (230216) | about 11 years ago | (#7467429)
Re:How much press will it get, though? (0, Insightful)
letxa2000 (215841) | about 11 years ago | (#7467257)
What I'd really like to know is whether the owners of those companies also contributed to the Democrats. It's standard operating procedure to donate to both parties so you're in business whoever is elected. And with something as delicate as voting equipment I can't imagine they'd donate to one and not the other.
This article has once again confirmed by belief that Slashdot is as much political as it is technological. Dozens of paragraphs of Bush-bashing and it gets on Slashdot for a passing (politically biased) comment about electronic voting? Can we be any more liberal, please???
Re:How much press will it get, though? (1)
Denyer (717613) | about 11 years ago | (#7467398)
Oh look (0, Troll)
JPelorat (5320) | about 11 years ago | (#7467170)
So? (-1, Flamebait)
nakhla (68363) | about 11 years ago | (#7467172)
Re:So? (1)
metallicagoaltender (187235) | about 11 years ago | (#7467196)
Would be better if they didn't contribute at all. (1)
Denyer (717613) | about 11 years ago | (#7467285)
One possibility is something similar to DVD-ROM hardware region locks, in which chips are 'burnt out' every time a signal is transmitted.
Re:So? (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467297)
wtg moderators (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467316)
Who cares about paper trails? (2, Insightful)
eurleif (613257) | about 11 years ago | (#7467182)
You mean ... (1)
burgburgburg (574866) | about 11 years ago | (#7467446)
Since the SC made him the Selected President*, that's the official descriptor now.
Why oh why (0, Troll)
Nazmun (590998) | about 11 years ago | (#7467186)
Also why don't most normal American's a have a problem with Bush yet?
Re:Why oh why (5, Insightful)
eurleif (613257) | about 11 years ago | (#7467203)
Re:Why oh why (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467390)
Any other grossly outrageous blanket stereotypes you've got rolling around in that highbrow forehead of yours that you'd like to toss out? All Israeli males are babyfuckers, something like that perhaps?
Re:Why oh why (1, Insightful)
proj_2501 (78149) | about 11 years ago | (#7467214)
Re:Why oh why (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467254)
It never occurs to people like you that you might simply be wrong. No matter what the facts, no matter how thin or tenuous the 'pattern of evidence', no matter how ridiculous the conspiracy, you're just right and anyone who has a differing opinion is either stupid or 'in on it'.
That attitude starts to border on religious fanaticism, you know.
Re:Why oh why (1)
JBark (170224) | about 11 years ago | (#7467262)
Because we shudder to think what would have happened had Gore become president.
Re:Why oh why (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467310)
Re:Why oh why (1)
Dav3K (618318) | about 11 years ago | (#7467361)
Re:Why oh why (1)
liquidpele (663430) | about 11 years ago | (#7467433)
If I had my way, you would need at least a high school education to be able to vote.
Re:Why oh why (1)
Ichijo (607641) | about 11 years ago | (#7467441)
Have a Diebold Christmas! (-1, Offtopic)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467192)
Not a phone was ringing, not even a mobile;
The wreaths were hung on the front door with care,
Not knowing a Wind Storm soon would be there;
The employees were seated, all quiet in their spots,
Things were too calm...Our stomachs were in knots;
and Moe with his spreadsheets with Deby in tow,
Had just settled down to discuss the cash flow,
When out in the parking lot there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter.
Away to the window like a quick puff of smoke,
I ripped up my hose and knocked over my coke.
The sun on the lawn showed a lack of any snow
Which gave the luster of Summer to objects below,
When, what to my wondering eyes should arrive,
But a 300M. Now that's a drive,
In the blink of an eye, he snapped back the seatbelt,
And I knew in a moment it must be Van Pelt.
More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;
"Now, Robert! now, Barry! now, Sherry and John!
On Diekman! on Kaplan! on Mickey and Don!
To the top of the heap to the top of it all
Outsell them, Outsell them, Outsell them all!"
And then, in a twinkling, he came up the steps
Swearing and screaming about each of the reps.
As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
In the front door Van Pelt came with a bound.
He was dressed like a prez', from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all pressed, no ashes or soot;
A bundle of contracts he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.
His eyes - how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
He said I've got RFP's...where the heck is Larry!
Orders for AccuVotes, Orders for Touch Screens,
Let's get moving and build some machines.
We've got AccuPoke, AccuFake...Voting's the theme,
And the visions encircle his head like a dream;
He had a smile on his face and whistled a tune,
As he thought about shipping 10,000 units by the end of June.
He was happy and cheerful, a right jolly ole Pelt
And I smiled when I saw him, in spite of myself;
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon everyone was smiling, the joy was widespread;
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
Picked up the phone and call the Cobb County Clerk,
He gave everyone a raise, like a good CEO,
And giving a nod, out the door he did go;
He sprang to his car, to his Team gave a whistle,
And away he did fly like the down of a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, as he drove out of sight,
Happy Christmas to all and to all...Keep Smiling!
sure, but... (1, Insightful)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467211)
Liberals are the ones who pushed for Motor-Voter legislation and now want to give driver's licenses to illegals. Who's up to their eyeballs in corruption?
Re:sure, but... (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467365)
Ugggg.... (2, Troll)
TedTschopp (244839) | about 11 years ago | (#7467212)
Re:Ugggg.... (1)
grasshoppa (657393) | about 11 years ago | (#7467288)
Besides that, why else would they so fight opening the source? Trade secrets? How many companies out there are making voting machines? Why is it a problem if they all open their source? If there is code "sharing" going on, they'd know about it almost immediately due to the nature of the process.
So why are they so opposed to it?
Re:Ugggg.... (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467319)
Many of the people involved, all of the way to the top, seem to have the attitude to where they are more concerned about selling machines to the public sector than creating a mechanism to where the process of voting can be improved.
I don't immediately worry about big business money going to the republican party that supports them interfearing with the votes. I worry about terrorist that can intefere with the election and elect Bush for a second term.
Isn't potential election stealing worrying? (4, Insightful)
Kinniken (624803) | about 11 years ago | (#7467325)
Proof? No, but what looks like frightening bugs in one of the most critical tasks of a democracy, from companies whose owners are heavily involved in politic. Now, that does not necessarily mean that election-rigging is under way, but IMHO it is cause enough for public scrutiny.
Both sides of the political debate here in the States and abroad would love to steal an election.
So what? Should we let them do it, trusting that some sort of balance will be kept by the rigging on both side?
Re:Ugggg.... (3, Insightful)
mapmaker (140036) | about 11 years ago | (#7467415)
Hiding the process used to count votes, and making that process unverifyable (is that a word?) once the votes have been counted, is an execellent way to steal an election.
Since all the electronic voting equipment manufacturers are insisting on hidden, unverifyable code, and all of them are "rooting for" the same political party, it isn't exactly a wacko idea to think there might be something fishy going on here.
Yes, both parties would love to steal an election. But one party appears to actually be implementing the means to do so.
Re:Ugggg.... (1)
edwdig (47888) | about 11 years ago | (#7467452)
By your logic, we shouldn't be complaining until we notice a candidate receiving 100 million votes from the state of Alaska.
The problem with electronic voting (-1, Troll)
PhysicsGenius (565228) | about 11 years ago | (#7467216)
I think we'll be seeing paper voting for a long time to come.
Re:The problem with electronic voting (1, Informative)
tomhudson (43916) | about 11 years ago | (#7467334)
A one-time pad isn't what you seem to think of. For example, I could have a cd-rw with a 100,000 1,024kbyte keys, all different. You have the same cd-rw. I send you a message encrypted with one of the keys - then I overwrite that key w. the burner. You decrypt w. the same key, and overwrite the key w. the burner. So long as we are the only 2 people w. the physical CD-RW, the "one-time" pad is good for 100,000 messages.
Gore Vidal is an idiot (-1, Troll)
ellem (147712) | about 11 years ago | (#7467217)
Yes you may mod me a Troll now.
Re:Gore Vidal is an idiot (2)
sulli (195030) | about 11 years ago | (#7467341)
Re:Gore Vidal is an idiot (0)
Lando Griffin (698606) | about 11 years ago | (#7467353)
better than... (1, Insightful)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467423)
Since I don't give a rats ass... (1)
MisanthropicProggram (597526) | about 11 years ago | (#7467424)
Demand a paper trail! (5, Informative)
Eraserhd (21298) | about 11 years ago | (#7467221)
Civil Disobedience (1, Funny)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467223)
No Paper Trail = No Trust (4, Insightful)
visionsofmcskill (556169) | about 11 years ago | (#7467230)
From that point the ballots should be counted in the traditional manner and used to audit the eletronic reports. If there is any significiant discrepency the paper ballots should take precedence. This procedure should continue until the eletronic voting process is as reliably accurate as the ballot method for a period of years.
After that point we can take the electronic method as the primary method, witht he printed results being automaticly placed into a ballot box connected to these machines.
If there is ever a time the printed ballot form should cease to exist i cannot for-see it right now. If there isnt physical evidence of the voting process somewhere, i feel highly dubious as to the integrity of the entire system.
--vision
Re:No Paper Trail = No Trust (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467290)
Corruption? (2, Funny)
jemfinch (94833) | about 11 years ago | (#7467231)
Jeremy
this (1)
Hubert_Shrump (256081) | about 11 years ago | (#7467233)
take it or leave it.
I hardly believe (2, Insightful)
bigjnsa500 (575392) | about 11 years ago | (#7467235)
Stop bitching and moaning and get out there and DO something about it. Jeez...
That's the last political statement I will make on /.
Re:I hardly believe (0, Flamebait)
dacarr (562277) | about 11 years ago | (#7467327)
Oh, wait, the primaries, let alone the generals, don't actually happen until 2004. Guess I gotta wait and spend the time bitching about Dubya, don't I?
Re:I hardly believe (2, Informative)
bigjnsa500 (575392) | about 11 years ago | (#7467371)
Re:I hardly believe (3, Insightful)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467389)
Re:I hardly believe (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467410)
You can call him what you want, but he's not *my* President.
As noted author, Gore Vidal, was ... (5, Funny)
burgburgburg (574866) | about 11 years ago | (#7467239)
No Whining Zone (1, Insightful)
syntap (242090) | about 11 years ago | (#7467249)
Oh, and no solutions are provided in the article either, other than to replace the current swag of corrupt politicians with a new swag of corrupt politicians.
With all things politic (1)
UrgleHoth (50415) | about 11 years ago | (#7467255)
Gore Vidal is a FAGGOT (-1, Flamebait)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467261)
Gore Vidal, Homosexualist (1)
handy_vandal (606174) | about 11 years ago | (#7467386)
Vidal prefers the term "homosexualist" [fawny.org] .
-kgj
Its not a bug, its a feature! (1)
ChesireKat (601712) | about 11 years ago | (#7467265)
---------
I can see it now
---------
"Sir, the votes came in. You have a unanimous vote."
"hrm. couldnt this be a bug?"
Nono sir, its not a bug, its a feature!
Fine hair products (4, Funny)
GoofyBoy (44399) | about 11 years ago | (#7467270)
Just another leftist whiner (0, Troll)
clustersnarf (236) | about 11 years ago | (#7467272)
OMFG TEH VOET WAS RIGGIED!!!11 I WANT OPZ SO I CAN KICK THEM!
All I've heard since GWB was elected was people who wanted some socialst in power saying things bad about the current president as if it really matters. These people take their toys and go home when they don't get their way. Not to mention cry about it forever.
I didnt hear the "vast right wing conspirators" whining this much when Bill "pants around my ankles" Clinton was in office for 8 years. Lying his ass off and basicly fucking us all in the ass.
And even now, with this "memo" from the Democrats about slandering Bush next year to win the election, using the powers of the Independent Council to lock up the current administration so they can sneak some socialist in and tax us all to death. WAY TO GO, keep whining about people who care about this country and stop using this "conspiracy" blip to explain all your cry baby rants.
OMG TEH CLUSTERSNARF MAEKS ID10T JOKES!!!!! WTF!! (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467421)
using the powers of the Independent Council
Dude. The Independent Counsel Act expired and will not be renewed after the Kenneth Starr debacle. If you don't even know that, why the fucking fuck fuck do you think anyone should pay attention to you?
Re:Just another leftist whiner (1)
citizenkeith (720680) | about 11 years ago | (#7467437)
Re:Just another leftist whiner (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467453)
Keep up the chanting, there's a good sheep.
He's a luddite, but a sharp luddite (2, Interesting)
Ars-Fartsica (166957) | about 11 years ago | (#7467273)
Vidal is one of America's sharpest social critics, although he only operates as a critic. He ran for office once but I suspect he would be a failure as a career politician despite his family ties.
Corruption (2)
MisanthropicProggram (597526) | about 11 years ago | (#7467279)
No, I'm sad to say, it's the American way.
enough (1, Troll)
Boromir son of Faram (645464) | about 11 years ago | (#7467282)
Re:enough (2, Funny)
bark (582535) | about 11 years ago | (#7467367)
Re:enough (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467375)
You do realize that Gore Vidal and Al Gore are different people, right?
Re:enough (1)
nearlygod (641860) | about 11 years ago | (#7467409)
Re:enough (1)
jratcliffe (208809) | about 11 years ago | (#7467419)
Re:enough (2, Informative)
saddino (183491) | about 11 years ago | (#7467420)
Re:enough (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467432)
yeah, we did lose, after all Bush WAS elected.... (0)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467456)
Have you OD'd on Fox News or were you just asleep for the last half of 2000?
News for... Policy Wonks? Bias that matters. (1)
Tailhook (98486) | about 11 years ago | (#7467293)
A vote for Hanging Chads (1)
j0keralpha (713423) | about 11 years ago | (#7467299)
A. we know how it works,
and B. it doesnt have to be rebooted and have its hardware and software swapped out and replaced with unverified components (see Diebold). How the hell are we supposed to trust an electoral system thats going to allow this?
Bush will win... (1)
56ksucks (516942) | about 11 years ago | (#7467301)
----
Time for Open Source Voting Machines (2, Interesting)
!Squalus (258239) | about 11 years ago | (#7467305)
This simply is too important to allow hacked machines to spit out as answer that somebody pre-determined in a back-room deal.
We can do something about it now, or we can pay the consequences of an untrusted election system come next year. The choices are few, the ooportunities many. Write me off as stupid if you just don't give a rat's, but you will sooner or later.
Paper trail (1)
apoplectic (711437) | about 11 years ago | (#7467326)
Paper trail for what?? (1, Interesting)
Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#7467332)
Hah! Did it matter in the 2000 election in Florida?
The trail is still there -- is someone doing anything about it?
Bah crap! The precedent is already there. It could be the Dem party which does that the next time...
Its all the same in the end.
Must be Bush's fault (2, Informative)
obsid1an (665888) | about 11 years ago | (#7467333)
And if Clinton was president odds are they would be donating to Clinton. It may be corruption, but at least it's universal.
A Republican agrees (1, Flamebait)
mcg1969 (237263) | about 11 years ago | (#7467352)
But despite my Republican affiliation and support for Bush, I agree that current electronic voting systems are shamefully flawed. The lack of a paper, human-readable ballot receipt prevents any sort of independent audit of the results to confirm their accuracy. And the various statements attributed to Diebold's C.E.O. about "delivering" the electoral vote to Bush is just ludicrious and rightfully cast serious doubts on his company's credibility in this arena.
Electronic voting can be done right. But currently it is not...
Obligatory Simpsons' Reference (3, Funny)
SplendidIsolatn (468434) | about 11 years ago | (#7467355)
Lisa: Friend? [scoffs] These are my only friends.
[holds up a book]
Grownup nerds like Gore Vidal, and even he's kissed more boys
than I ever will.
Marge: Girls, Lisa. Boys kiss girls.
Donors to the "administration"??? (2, Insightful)
magarity (164372) | about 11 years ago | (#7467360)
Everyone who pays taxes in the US is a "donor" to the executive branch. Perhaps you mean the Bush campaign? In that case, you may be suprised that most companies actually donate pretty equally to both sides just to cover the bases. What were these companies' total donations to political campaigns compared to just to just Bush's? Without that info, this is a meaninglessly paranoid "article".
electronic voting/paper trail (3, Funny)
jdruyjdruy (723939) | about 11 years ago | (#7467377)
I understand where he is coming from, but... (1)
Inebrius (715009) | about 11 years ago | (#7467396)
The rights of corporations often trump the rights of individuals. Just look at the recent laws on the books...if they were reversed so corporations could also be fined not per song per use per day, but per person ripped off, colluded against, lied to, and per person they commit fraud against - at the exact same rate individuals pay per song, per offense, per unauthorized use...you would see laws get changed and fines more representative of real damages...or maybe they would just change their practices as would the public (if both were liable for $150000xYxZ.
The point is, while the Bush administration scares me, so does the other side of the isle. The only ones I am not so fearful of are the ones with (I) or (L) or something else next to their names, other than (R) or (D).
Re:I understand where he is coming from, but... (1)
veddermatic (143964) | about 11 years ago | (#7467440)
He can't stand the Democrats. He just hates the Conservatives even more.
aging author (1)
Threni (635302) | about 11 years ago | (#7467397)
Huh? (5, Funny)
schon (31600) | about 11 years ago | (#7467404)
Really? The PATRIOT act was written in German?
makes sense.. (0)
deego (587575) | about 11 years ago | (#7467418)
Why I have stopped reading Slashdot (0)
Pres. Ronald Reagan (659566) | about 11 years ago | (#7467425)
Over the years, the Socialist bias of the Slashdot garbagemen has begun to come through. Rather than run an unbiased site and let the readers decide for themselves (a la Fox News), they have taken an anti-Bush, pro-Socialism standpoint.
Also, the utterly confusing and occasionally frightening of self proclaimed Communist Richard M. Stallman is nothing short of disgusting. Check out his website for proof of his Communist beliefs.
I thought this was a libertarian-oriented site, but more and more the readers and janitors have demanded protection and increased spending for minorities, themselves, the poor, and other social outcasts at the expense of our economy and at the expense of hard working, capitalist Americans. It's really disgusting.
Gore Vidal is an expert on this stuff... (1)
Rahga (13479) | about 11 years ago | (#7467436)