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Hordes of the Underdark Goes Gold

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the duergar-drow-and-svirfneblin dept.

Role Playing (Games) 221

MattW writes "Bioware announced that Hordes of the Underdark has gone gold. This is the second expansion pack for Neverwinter Nights, and the first to be developed in-house by Bioware. It's also the first CRPG to feature 3rd Edition epic levels. Looks like it will be fun. Some of the biggest requests from the custom content community are in, like custom talk-tables, that should allow for a much better level of customization for the game." I can't say enough good things about the Neverwinter Nights titles, but if this game is anything like the last couple, it's going to steal a lot of my time. I hope I manage to make it home for the holidays.

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Box Set (1)

darkstar949 (697933) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501443)

Does anyone know when some form of a box set with the game and the x-pac's will be going on sale?

Re:Box Set (3, Informative)

Erwos (553607) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501464)

NWN Gold comes with Shadows of Udrentide.

Which, I may add, makes a nice alternative to the original campaign when you're levelling up your 50 characters...

-Erwos

hello room (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501444)

hello room

Re:hello room (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501796)

your troll is extremely feeble.

Good news (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501446)

Good news; the expansion couldn't possibly suck more than the original campain.

Bad news; NWN still sucks.

Re:Good news (3, Informative)

darkstar949 (697933) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501455)

Most of the people that play NWN don't play the orginal story outside of maybe one time through. The real charm to NWN is downloading other people's senerios and stories to play.

Re:Good news (1)

Erwos (553607) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501499)

" Most of the people that play NWN don't play the orginal story outside of maybe one time through."

I have my doubts about this. Maybe not in _multi-player_. But I get the distinct impression from listening to people that single-player is an excellent place to gain some initial levels (to, say, 15).

-Erwos

Re:Good news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502042)

Especially if you're new to the style of play. I had to go through it twice just to see if my alignment really made a difference. It didnt. but it was fun getting my first 2 characters up in levels.

Re:Good news (0, Flamebait)

InceptionOS (589862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501469)

It's just as well you can type, for if you had to speak your mind, you'd
be speechless. Generally, there is nothing wrong with having nothing
worthwhile to say - unless you insist on saying it. A long period of
non-posting would be most welcome on your part. How true is Stanislaw J.
Lec's famous remark: "Every now and then you meet someone whose ignorance
is encyclopedic."

When god was handing out personalities, you must have been holding the
door. You're so boring, even a boomerang wouldn't come back to you.
There's nothing wrong with you that couldn't be cured with a little
Prozac and a polo mallet, or, better yet, suicide. Maybe you wouldn't
come across as such a jellyfish-sucking mental midget if you didn't have
that botched back street lobotomy that left you that crisscrossed
shoelace scar on your forehead; if your weren't so fat that when you walk
down the street, everyone yells "Earthquake!", or if you didn't have a
face so ugly that your mom had to get well-and-truly drunk before she
could breast feed you. Who am I kidding? You would.

In closing, I suggest the next time that you feel an urge to embarrass
yourself and bore others, that you summon all your might, and resist.

Re:Good news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501481)

Lem. Stanislaw Lem.

Re:Good news (0)

InceptionOS (589862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501505)

I was typing a bit to fast, didn't notice my mistake until after I posted...(sh)it happens. :)

LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501487)

Full of old ones, but the old ones are usually the best. :-)

Re:Good news (1)

heir2chaos (656103) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501512)

What the...? So, you are flaming this guy because he states that he thinks a game is horrid? I tend to agree with him, but would never flame someone for having their own opinion on the matter, even if they liked the game. Oh, by the way, will the Linux port of this expansion be ready before June of 2005?

Re:Good news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501526)

Dearest boor,

Please take your pretentious attitude, mindless rantings and dessicated penis to the door.

Goodbye,

The Editors

That was no more a troll than its parent (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501540)

Troll? I don't think so. Perhaps it's off-topic, but it's not Flamebait in the way that its parent was. I'd have moderated it Funny myself.

At least the reply contained some humor and the poster could string sentences of more than three words together, something that's getting ever more rare on Slashdot.

Airline alert! (4, Funny)

BallPeenHammer (720987) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501456)

I hope I manage to make it home for the holidays.

I'd like to see graphs of rising game sales vs. plummeting airline ticket sales.

Correlations, anyone?

A truly long lasting game. (5, Informative)

Martigan80 (305400) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501462)

Well even though it took a l-o-n-g time for the Linux client to come out, it is a fun game. In fact it is the only game I play on a daily basis on my Linux system. Granted I have had moments of outrage to long delay's it is a great game, and I'm so happy to see the company still support the game and develop for it. This is a game that truly allows the end user and developers to continue the legacy as long as there is a demand. If they actually make a NWN II I hope they will concentrate on bring the Linux release up to par.

P.s. The gfx is pretty cool, not great but I don't play a game solely based on gfx, I need good playability and challenging tasks.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (1)

Lussarn (105276) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501492)

I have been thinking of getting this game for Linux, is the ingame video "fiasco" fixed yet. Or do you have to use a standalone video player? How much of the game is ruined by not having the videos?

Btw. Does anybody know if this expansion is for Linux too?

Re:A truly long lasting game. (-1, Flamebait)

Bartmoss (16109) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501506)

The videos suck anyway, forget them. The most nagging omission is the toolset, that never got ported over to linux. But if you don't plan to design modules then this won't affect you much.

Since SoU was Linux compatible, I don't see why HotU won't, but I can't tell you for sure.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (-1, Flamebait)

BoomerSooner (308737) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501609)

Amen, if I wanted to watch a movie I'd go to the theater. I couldn't care less about stupid "mood setting" videos in games. The Baldur's Gate movies were very irritating since you couldn't skip them.

As far as the toolkit goes that thing is a monster to work with. I want a toolkit like dungeon keeper, easy easy easy. Although who has time for video games in this economy? I waited 2+ years for this release and have bought the SoU addon and haven't even got through 1/3 of the original game. Feeding the family somehow takes priority.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (1)

Lispy (136512) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501546)

Afaik the videos can be viewed with some form of linuxplayer, but frankly, I dont care. It really isnt necessary to see them, the game works fine without them. If this is holding you back you are really missing a lot of fun. This game is quite addictive and you should give it a try.

cu,
Lispy

Re:A truly long lasting game. (-1, Flamebait)

swv3752 (187722) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501569)

The videos are pretty lame. A couple of still images with a voice over does not make a "video". Just ask on the message boards for a brief synopsis of the appropriate chapter video. It doesn't affect play, though it might make the overall story make a little more sense.

And I do believe it was mentioned on the boards that it is supported for Linux. I do believe the Linux binaries will be in the box.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501985)

Well, I've just started playing the Linux version, and I much prefer it without the video interludes. You simply get on with the game.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (1)

swv3752 (187722) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502318)

The videos are pretty lame. A couple of still images with a voice over does not make a "video". Just ask on the message boards for a brief synopsis of the appropriate chapter video. It doesn't affect play, though it might make the overall story make a little more sense.

And I do believe it was mentioned on the boards that it is supported for Linux. I do believe the Linux binaries will be in the box.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (1)

Matrix272 (581458) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501644)

If they actually make a NWN II I hope they will concentrate on bring the Linux release up to par.

IF they make it? Why would it even be a question? You make a game that people like, and they buy it... you get more money. Now you have an established product with a fanbase. Why the hell wouldn't you make a sequel, especially from a game with such potential for a series?

Re:A truly long lasting game. (4, Interesting)

crawling_chaos (23007) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502204)

The problem is the triumverate of Atari, Hasbro, and Wizards of the Coast, who must approve all content sold under the Dungeons and Dragons name. They have decided that any D&D game can have no more than a Teen Rating, and a fairly soft T at that. From the vibe I'm getting on the Bioware boards, it looks like the creative people are tired of fighting those battles. Bioware has already announced that their next PC game will not be based on a licensed property.

Unless Hasbro unloads the D&D license to another company, I expect D&D games to slowly fade out. I very much doubt that the folks who made Temple of Elemental Evil really want to repeat the experience they had with them, and Bioware seems to be tiring as well.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (1)

KDan (90353) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501747)

Hmmm... I used to play this..... but I've got a girlfriend now... no time anymore.... barely got 4 hours of sleep last night.... ;-)

Daniel

Re:A truly long lasting game. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501905)

Hmmm... I used to play this..... but I've got a girlfriend now... no time anymore.... barely got 4 hours of sleep last night.... ;-)

heh, i used to have a girlfriend, then i got this game.

needless to say i now no longer have a girlfriend and have sworn off of nwn.

Re:A truly long lasting game. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501925)

infidel!

Re:A truly long lasting game. (1)

override11 (516715) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501996)

Miss Michigan keep you up late?

Community Content is awesome too (3, Informative)

DG (989) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501903)

There are some really spectacular community-produced modules too. CC1 and CC2 in particular were really very good. There are some really strong writers out there.

And Bioware has been keeping the Linux client up to date (and in some cases, even slightly advanced over) the Windows client. I'm VERY happy with the Linux support. Supposedly there is a Linux toolset coming too (OpenNights or something like that)

Thumbs WAY up BioWare!

DG

You have no concept of what a long wait is !!! (1)

IAmAMacOSXAddict (718470) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502333)

I waited almost 2 years for the game to come out, I'm so glad that it finally did, though the design pack was not included so I had to buy a windows version and a crappy old PIII to run it on. I have my PIII running headless connected to my mac (G5Dual2gig w/23"lcd) via Micro$loth's remote desktop client.

--
Bob

Good news.. (-1, Offtopic)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501467)


Yes this is good news but WHERE IS THIEF 3?! whine whine whine

Re:Good news.. (1)

Necrobruiser (611198) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501535)

Thief 3 is scheduled for June of 2004, so expect it next Christmas. On the upside, however, they've already registered the domain name [thief3.com] , and you can download the new trailer here [eidosinteractive.com] .

Re:Good news.. (1)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501573)


Yep, been there, saw the trailer, downloaded all the fan missions I could. I'm an admitted Thief Addict. :) Try it with LCD shutter glasses in a dark room (nvidia has generic 3D drivers for DirectX and OpenGL).. it'll eat your weekend.

Re:Good news.. (1)

Necrobruiser (611198) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502056)

Yeah- I saw the trailer, and just had to replay Thief 2 again... Those shutter glasses look cool- I'll give it a shot.

GOD I HATE THIS PURPLE COLOUR SCHEME (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501468)

it is so gay.

Re:GOD I HATE THIS PURPLE COLOUR SCHEME (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501529)

I agree. and it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility of suing CmdrTaco if your eyes get damaged by this horrible choice of colors and contrast

Re:GOD I HATE THIS PURPLE COLOUR SCHEME (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501549)

If you win have fun with the OSDN stock options!

Re:GOD I HATE THIS PURPLE COLOUR SCHEME (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501560)

yeah, the OSDN stock certificates are printed on high-quality paper. Good for wiping your anus.

AI (2, Informative)

musikit (716987) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501473)

i just remember going to a talk at gdconf last year where the lead AI programmer talked about decisions they made in neverwinter nights and said "please don't hurt me" when describing the AI system and problems they were having

followup article (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501478)

AOL News is doing a follow-up article

Click Here [aol.com] to see it

PARENT IS NOT A TROLL! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501755)

fools! That image warrants discourse immediately!!!

Re:PARENT IS NOT A TROLL! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501844)

How can ye escape the woman in the background holding the eel, preparing for penetration!?

Re:followup article (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502254)

Box set (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501486)

I believe there's one for NWN and the first expansion, SoU.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0 00 09MGVF/qid=1069164519/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/104-769983 3-0575100?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846

HotU Opinion (4, Interesting)

Bartmoss (16109) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501494)

Now, of course I haven't seen the game yet but I have followed the news as it leaked out of Bioware. It's truely wonderful what they've included in HotU. Hordes is a module designer's wet dream, really. From robes, to Ioun stones to skyboxes, to hundreds of new scripting functions. Especially nice - and available for all versions via the Live team/patches - are the improvement for the stores, like what does this merchant sell, what does he buy, and so on.

I ordered my copy today, and I am still mad at Bioware for not releasing a Linux toolset (editor) for the game as they had promised.

About the only feature that I am really missing is... spellcaster prestige classes. There's a bug in their code that doesn't allow them to do "casterlevel +1" for a prestige class. This is really sad.

Sorry if this sounds like an advertisement, but I am really excited about HotU (much more than I was over SoU). You should really check out Bioware (http://nwn.bioware.com) or the Vault (http://nwvault.ign.com) for some info.

Re:HotU Opinion (3, Informative)

Ferro_Man (252684) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501521)

About the only feature that I am really missing is... spellcaster prestige classes. There's a bug in their code that doesn't allow them to do "casterlevel +1" for a prestige class. This is really sad.

i thought they fixed that
with the dragon disciple and the pale master both needing that fixed...
you would think they could have done it

i am looking forward to the max level cap being raised to level 40 and the 6 new prestige classes...
some of them seem interesting enough to use
unlike the harpers scout of shadows of undrentide

no, spellcaster +1 is in (2, Informative)

MattW (97290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501607)

They have 2 new 2da fields -- Divine and Spellcaster level offset in classes.2da, so they say. They allow you to give a +1 spellcaster level to any PrC, and they're using it themselves for Pale Master (which gets +1 every other level per the books).

The custom talk tables are a REALLY big deal, however, since they allow you to add in custom strings, needed for custom classes, spells, etc, without including the 8+ Mb dialog.tlk file in a hak pak (or requiring people to put a new dialog.tlk in their override directory, since it wasn't even hakable before)

But yeah, HotU > Sou, big time. Although SoU had a nice official campaign, IMO -- more fun and better story than the NWN OC -- it was feeble. The PrCs were broken, the spell additions were either dull or unbalancing (say, flare and Isaac's * Missile Storm, respectively), and the 'new tilesets' were rather bare -- totally lacking placables and features that they didn't absolutely need for the SoU OC.

Incidentally, you can run the toolset under Wine, or so I hear. I'm pretty happy they did a linux version at all. In fact, if they'd done it simultaneous release, I'd be using it. (But who could wait a year?!)

Someone actually *liked* NWN? (2, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501514)

Not just a rant, but compared to Baulders Gate 1 and 2, NWN came up WAYYYYYYYY short. The engine, story, and "party" controls were all a huge step backwards. It's only step forward were custom levels being able to be made, but today that doesn't go far enough when people all want a great story and graphics engine (2D please, 3D sucks for this.).

Re:Someone actually *liked* NWN? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501591)

Try playing online on a persistant world server. It makes the official campign modules seem like training camp. Hell I never even bothered to play the OC for SoU, still haven't in fact, and I never even finished the original module. Multiplayer for NwN is where its happening.

Thats the point. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501634)

The whole point of NWN *is* the toolset. Look online, how many people are running stock games? Not many. The actual NWN games are fun, but the real fun is making your own, or playing other peoples homemade games. Theres a million and one games to choose from. Its not just one game.

Go back and play again (5, Interesting)

MattW (97290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501671)

There's a reason it seems that way. BG2 was expectation-shattering. I mean, BG1 was like: wow, this is a fun game, and nicely nonlinear.

BG2 was like: Wow, this is totally mind-numbingly amazing. It reproduced tons of fun kits, all the crazy spells like limited wish and contingency that we'd never seen in a game before, and the impossible hugeness of the game... you could play it 3 times and not find all the quests or read all the funny comments from the NPCs.

NWN, partially because of the huge success of BG2, had huge expectations attached. It definitely fell short, largely because the OC was just rather weak, partially because of a story that felt somehow mechanical, and partially because there were just too damn many chests... it literally slowed the game down.

Go back and play BG2 now though, and you'll realize without pause, its nearly impossible to control 1 character, let alone 6, and you'll find you REALLY want to rotate the screen around to see things from another angle... I find myself wanting to do that with ToEE all the time.

I would love to know how the sales compared to their expected sales... personally, I'd like to see them build on it. With a graphical update and a bunch of engine enhancements, NWN2 could be to NWN what BG2 was to BG. NWN already has a LOT of staying power: the City Of Doors and Dragonlance Adventures teams are producing projects far more impressive in scope than the OC, and containing more custom content than the first expansion pack. They've released custom modeling tools, creatures, and tilesets already. So there's actually a LOT of longevity left in the game -- because the biggest, best of the third-party projects are only going to start coming out now.

[OT] I'm glad someone mentioned Baldur's Gate (2, Interesting)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502257)

Have you seen BG1TuTu [fwstudios.net] yet? It lets you play thru Tales of the Sword Coast using the Throne of Bhaal engine. I've played it thru till the end just recently. It's great. Breathes new life into a game from the late 90's.

Jaysyn

Re:Someone actually *liked* NWN? (2)

critter_hunter (568942) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501723)

I tend to agree. The pathings, AI and speed were waaay down in NWN (well, maybe I should say "I could set them waaay up in BG, but not in NWN"). My henches, familiars and summons kept getting stuck everywhere. My familiar kept using up all its powers in the first encounter (and it was a bat: casting Fear over and over on ennemies which were affected by the first Fear spell ain't exactly useful). You often have to click 2-3 times on a locked door before Tommi actually starts unlocking it. Bleh.

The game also crashes every 3 hours or so on a clean (new install) Win2K with 768MB of RAM and a GeForce2. It took me 3 times to manage to install the game correctly. I don't know if I'm simply unlucky but to me NWN was a nightmare of instability.

I have a lot more issues with the game (you can only have one summon at a time, Create Undead sucks, all the dragons were too easy (I killed most of them without even a fight by casting Finger Of Death), the dwarves in the fire dragon cave are waaay too strong and lots of other nitpicking) but they didn't ruin the game as much for me as the AI and stability isues.

Re:Someone actually *liked* NWN? (1)

xMonkey (154829) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501850)

Honestly I thought the OC (original Campaign) Was the largest piece of poop ever made.

But the toolset and the player made mods made up for it. Plus I thought SoU was enjoyable and think that HotU will be unbelievable.

As far as the 'lack of party controls' goes, NWN isn't really designed for that, so if thats what you are looking for then you are out of luck.

However, HotU does increase your henchman to being able to take TWO of them, and provides support for UNLIMITED henchman in player made mods, so you can have LARGE parties.

But your henchman will continue to be more autonomous compared to BG, IWD series. This is mainly due to NWN focusing on multi-player realtime gameplay.

Re:Someone actually *liked* NWN? (1)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501924)

Yes, I liked NWN. I still do.

Nah, for me, Baldur's Gate party controls were step backwards and NWN was a step forwards. It's all a matter of perspective. I like the way NWN focuses on the character you control, rather than having to specifically control the complete strangers I met along the way.

And practically speaking, NWN does use a 2D engine that just happens to use 3D models. People seem to want vertical axis to be used better, though - I bet HotU will have some goblins jabbering about "we needs z-axis!" the way SoU kobolds went on about cloaks and robes and horses =)

And original BG engine apparently didn't allow people to bake bread. Savages.

Re:Someone actually *liked* NWN? (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502294)

No bread, but we could make dogmeat stew. Actually one of the neat things about BG was the fact you can script the game to do pretty much whatever you want.

For offline gaming, NWN can't hold a candle to BG.

Jaysyn

Re:Someone actually *liked* NWN? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502314)

I thought BG was a steaming piece of orc feces.

Development Still Too Complicated (5, Interesting)

Slider451 (514881) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501518)

While I loved the idea of NWN, it didn't meet the expectations I had brewing for the four years of hype leading up to it. Surprised?

The endless customizations are awesome and it really is the closest thing to tabletop D&D. But it takes way too long to put together a quality module, on the order of hours of work:minutes of gameplay. The defenders will say "Yeah, but I, as the DM, can just roleplay the characters and other things I didn't have time to add." True, but you still can't match the open endedness of a PnP game, where all you need is your imagination.

Again, love the idea, but still waiting for something that truly replaces tabletop. This isn't it... yet.

You've got a while to wait (2, Insightful)

sheetsda (230887) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501657)

still waiting for something that truly replaces tabletop

You're going to be waiting for quite some time. The problem lies in the fundamental openness of a tabletop game and the lack of the same in computer games: You can't do anything the designer didn't think of or didn't want you to do, and part of the fun of D&D is the creativity it requires to win on some occasions. Often you end up bypassing a trap or monster easily because you thought of something the DM didn't. (example from one of my D&D games) Suppose you're facing extremely fast but not very intelligent enemies, wrap a rope around their necks when they stop and hold on tight. When they take off again, pop goes the weasel. Until you can tell a computer game "I wrap a rope around its neck" and it correctly interprets and responds appropriately, no computer game will replace D&D.

Re:You've got a while to wait (1)

Slider451 (514881) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501740)

You can't do anything the designer didn't think of or didn't want you to do, and part of the fun of D&D is the creativity it requires to win on some occasions.

NWN actually attempted to allow for this with the included DM tools. They are pretty versatile and, with a little imagination (e.g. there are no animations for climbing or riding), can accomplish a lot. But they absolutely require the presence of a live DM.

Most NWN modules are single-player. In that case, there is no option to go outside the rules imposed by the module designer or the game engine. AI is long ways away from replacing the human DM.

Re:Development Still Too Complicated (1)

TheWhaleShark (414271) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501744)

The endless customizations are awesome and it really is the closest thing to tabletop D&D.

Actually, NWN is about as far away from tabletop D&D you can get. Most of the abilities are only light representations of the real tabletop mechanics, and by far the most glaring difference is the real-time combat, which can be an utter pain for spellcasters.

The Temple of Elemental Evil, released recently by Atari, is in fact MUCH closer to tabletop D&D. It has nearly full representation of the D&D 3.5 rules, and features turn-based combat. It is, IMHO, a much better representation of D&D than NWN. Of course, ToEE has no multiplayer, and is still kinda bug ridden and a bit boring, so NWN is a much better game overall.

But no, it's not the best representation of tabletop D&D.

Re:Development Still Too Complicated (1)

Slider451 (514881) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501802)

The Temple of Elemental Evil, released recently by Atari, is in fact MUCH closer to tabletop D&D.

The game engine may be better, but without an option for a live DM it can't get anywhere as near to tabletop as NWN.

Re:Development Still Too Complicated (1)

Creepy (93888) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501879)

The not-as-easy-to-use-as-hyped editor was one of the big disappointments after discovering the original campaign really wasn't very good (I'll stray a notch above sucked, because I've played worse).

The stick figure jerky animations and flat gameplay are my biggest gripes, though, closely followed by the "tiny" world feel. I'm not much of a fan of what's known in the development world as "areas" (maps that contain a segment of the world, but do not interact with other maps in the world -- e.g. monsters do not move between them) unless they're much larger than the ones in NWN or have a non-contiguous break (like a map view). If you think of the way games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc. do it - provide a large map and shrink to area when encounters are near, that's my preference. It gives a much bigger world feel, even though in some cases the world is smaller, and it also makes me much less bored walking across 25 map areas I've already cleared out because I forgot to do something trivial in the last town - random encounters would at least break the tedium...

Re:Development Still Too Complicated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502068)

I've played online D+D, but too often, it end up taking half an hour to kill a fucking pixie. I prefer single-player NWN if only because the fighting is more real-time.


The options are definitely more limited. Even old Sierra (King's Quest, etc) or zork seemed more open-ended with options and dialogue.

Re:Development Still Too Complicated (1)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502113)

I feel the need to comment on this from the other side...

As someone who has *never* played DnD (table top), I must say "don't let that stop you from playing NWN". It's the only game I've bought in recent memory, and it's the only one I have played consistantly since it came out. It's that damn good, and if you don't care about all of the tabletop DnD stuff, and don't want to see the dice rolls, you can ignore them (they're just in a dialogue box at the bottom of the screen).

In fact, playing NWN has made me wonder how it is to play the DnD table top game. But, in reality, I don't know that I could get into it.

Check out the MeBOY Review (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501547)

they got a pre-release version and took a indepth look at it. results seem pretty good

check it out [me-boy.com]

Dont click!!! Warning! (-1, Troll)

Lispy (136512) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501561)

Dont click! Gaypr0n Link. Please mod down.

Re:Dont click!!! Warning! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501575)

WTF are you, some troll that goes around accusing every link of being goatse/porno?

Please take your trolling antics over to Kuro5hin or some other site that welcomes such behavior.

it's a kiddyporn link. (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501584)

gross dude.

Re:it's a kiddyporn link. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501593)

What are you doing clicking on porno links?

Looking for naked women? (-1, Offtopic)

FatSean (18753) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501641)

What about you?

Such names... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501557)

I realize that these sorts of names are traditional in fantasy games and (bad) fiction, but jeez! I read it as Hordes of the Underdork. (Better than Hordes in my Underware, I guess.)

Many years ago, I wrote a random name generator program for these sort of names. Maybe I should sue?

My thoughts. (4, Interesting)

CFBMoo1 (157453) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501658)

NWN's original campaign got me interested. I charged through as a barbarian on a rampage and loved every minute of it. When I went to online play the game shined and shot me in the keister too for game exploits.

I really enjoyed the fact the Linux client came out for it. Once I switched over to Linux I have little reason for Windows anymore. Right now the only thing keeping Windows alive on my other machine is the fact I need the NWN Toolset. I really, REALLY!, wish they would put out a toolset for Linux. I feel sorta cheated for not having it.

I'll definatly pick up the HoU expansion but I won't be buying any new titles from Bioware or any other game company unless there's direct Linux support and no half way, "Oh here it is a day late." type deals either. I just hope they keep the HoU release in step with both Windows and Linux.

As for the client on my Linux Mandrake box, thing runs better then it did on Windows with the same graphics resolution. I'm flat out amazed and the picture seems slightly sharper and things are snappier for me. Nice job and keep it up and make things better! By that I mean make a toolset for Linux!

NwN Multiplayer is where its at! (3, Interesting)

The_Dougster (308194) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501668)

Some of the persistant world modules that are out there now are intensely fun. There is plenty to do all the time, tremendously challenging quests, and plenty of other players to for a party with. Then add to that you may have dm's online stirring up the soup and spreading mischief, and it all adds up to great fun.

Personally I never finished the OC, never even bothered to play the SoU campaign. The game sat kind of idle for a while until I tried out multiplayer, but now I feel like I am seeing NwN as it was envisioned to be. Wait until you are in an army of 20+ high level characters attacking some epic fortress, it is fantastic!

I'm not going to mention which PW I play on because I don't want all of you slashdot dorks ruining my fun. I leave it to you to find a suitable campaign which suits you.

I'm a Republican! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501697)

Oh, I'm a Republican
I got a small schling
I like to bomb niggahs
and make a lot o' bling

I got a bunch o' friends
in high up places
They helps me get dem
government graces.

You think I'm smart
I just know who's who
I couldn't run a fruit stand
without the red white & blue

I fancy myself
A brilliant tactician
But neither me nor m'buddies
Could even pass basic trainin'

See, I'm above all that
A fightin' and shootin'
I just say "Sic em!"
Then run the other direction

Don't need no history
Don't need no schoolin'
I got my ideology
To keep me a shootin'

Liberals! Faggots!
Commies and queers!
Socialist hippies
Full o' pussy tears!

I'll drop some crap
about Jesus the Christ
You'll buy it all
and vote for me twice

'Fact, Jesus is comin'!
Real soon, now!
So we gotta prop up Israel
That ol' sacred cow

Propaganda's m'friend
But I calls it "fact"
Even though I don't read
'Cept for Chick tracts

Facts? No! Don't need em here!
We're conservatives! We work on FEAR!
Don't like what we say?
Well FUCK YOU, bud!
We'll shove it down yer throat
and tell ya it's good!

Re:I'm a Republican! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501777)

Is that you G.W?

Re:I'm a Republican! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502256)

the sad thing is: i can't disagree with any of that.

hmmm (1)

Jacer (574383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501701)

There's a Linux version, it must be a good game... I don't mean to troll but NWN is a horrible game. It was easy, and the camera angles sucked. It was D&D, but where was the party controle. The hirelings AI was terrible, I hired a theif to disarm and pick locks ect and he kept getting himself into melee combat. If you want a really fun game, go pick up Baldur's Gate and/or Baldur's Gate 2.

Re:hmmm (1)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501810)

Easiness: Hum... try cranking up the difficulty and then trying some of the challenging mods. =) How easy the game is supposed to be is subjective, of course. I do not personally equate "needs hundreds of reloads to get through" as "hard", but rather as "frustrating". It remains to be seen how difficult the tricks in HotU are.

Camera angles: Camera unlocking was implemented ages ago, and HotU will have it enabled by default! Also they have skyboxes and fog distance (I think), so this mostly eliminates the need for camera hack.

Party control: IMHO party control sucks and I like the NWN way of controlling only one character (this is the way it works in the Greatest RPG Ever Made, Ultima VII, and what God has made, that man shan't misimplement). Aside of this, HotU will have up to two henchmen and lifts the henchman restriction.

AI: From what I heard, this will still likely suck. =/

Re:hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501815)

have you even played this game? The camera angles sucked?!? the camera was COMPLETELY free roaming, you could put the camera ANYWHERE you wanted. There was no party control because there was no party, that's the point, NWN was always envisioned to be a client for multiplayer. As for the hireling AI, I suggest you try talking to your hireling and telling them what you want them to do instead of assuming the game will read your mind and do what you want.

Re:hmmm (1)

Inebrius (715009) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502034)

The game was getting too easy for me, and then I turned the difficulty to the maximum setting. It helps a lot.

As far as henchman controls go, you can at least tell your henchman to stay a distance away from you, or to use a ranged weapon and stay out of combat.

I actually don't use a henchman. You don't need to with most of the classes. You can bash open chests, use knock (even as a cleric with the right discipline), or use a weapon that can knock as well.

The pathing could use some fine tuning. That is the only thing that I found frustrating about the game.

I have just started the second game and the difficulty is a bit higher than the first (even at normal level).

NWN was never designed to be a large party control game. The intent was to make a game in which you can control 1 player with many options, have a henchman, and possibly a familiar or pet. It was also designed to allow multiplayer, even though the modules officially released are for 1 player, which is the largest segment of the market.

Re:hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502226)

I played Baldur's Gate. It was horrible. The interface sucked. The graphics sucked. The multiplayer sucked.

I can't imagine how you can possibly compare BG to Neverwinter Nights - NWN is far superior to BG in all those categories.

I had a friend that suffered through BG and BG2. From what I heard about BG2, it was of the "killer dungeon" variety. Oddly enough, my DMG warns against creating adventures like that. So no, I never tried BG2. Perhaps it addressed one or more of the three issues above.

Re:hmmm (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502375)

Have you tried any of the Mods or Engine switches for the BG & IWD series?

www.teambg.com
www.weidu.org
http://japh.fwstu dios.net/bg1tutu/
http://weidu.org/iwg2/

These guys have done some pretty amazing things with the Infinity Engine.

Too much high level play (4, Insightful)

nicophonica (660859) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501708)

Hoards allows up to 40th level attainment. That's too high. D&D, both the board game and the various computer rpgs is best at low to medium levels. Temple of Elemental Evil is a great example of this. The first half of NWN was great but once your characters get above 12th a lot of it becomes tedious.

Re:Too much high level play (2, Insightful)

xMonkey (154829) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501754)

Yeah, I would agree with you, if it wasn't for NWN's community.

There will be some player made mods that take the time and really make some epic adventures. It will be fun.

Plus it gives lasting life to some of the player run PWs, if done right of course.

Re:Too much high level play (1)

PhoenixFlare (319467) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501874)

Key word there being allows.

And it only becomes tedious if you don't have a game system and/or a DM that can work with it. You should look at some of the character classes and skills at the Epic level sometime - Very impressive stuff, but also controlled, as well as being insanely hard to attain.

is ./ paid (-1, Troll)

Enquest (579041) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501719)

Is slashdot paid for this article, poitn to...

NWN is the future (well maybe not) (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501722)

Players making thier own games is the future of gaming. You see this trend starting way back in old school MUDs, continuing into Load Runner map editors, Tony Hawk skate park editors, The SecondLife MMOG, what Sims Online Should have been, etc... and NWN.

And for those who complain that hours of developement in NWN equal minutes of game time. Yes, you have to expect this.

If you want a system that provides REAL customization and expandibilty then it is going to be complex, and take time.

I do agree that NWN is far from replacing PnP, but it will be MANY years until a system is developed that could do so, and when the system does come out, it will probaly be 5x more complex than NWN currently is.

Anyway, you need games like NWN to get the ball rolling and show that there is an interest in end-user modding and it is a very good attempt. I enjoy it.

HotU looks awesome and has more expanded features than they could possible even advertise.

Application for new tub girl. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501724)

After Eugina Loli Queru [osnews.com] , aka Tubgirl [tubgirl.com] left for a job in Linux consolting. We now have a position for a new tub girl. Job description and duties : To perform various acrobatics in a bath tub while shitting overyourself. Candidates must
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WARNING NASTY PICTURE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7501963)


Very nasty picture....dont click the link.

NWN's shortcomings (2, Flamebait)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501735)

I think I best summarize what I think about this game with a pro/con list:

Pros:

- Highly flexible modding tools that are fairly easy to use.
- Available in a Windows, Mac and Linux version.
- Good availability of custom campaigns of varying quality.
- Many implemented D&D rules.

Cons:

- Very outdated game engine already when NWN went gold. Almost back to Doom II with a sort of pseudo-3D. Sure, the 3D is "real", but the feature set doesn't make it look like that. No swimming, no flying, no jumping (!), no crouching. What happened with the Z axis!? You can barely design campaigns that have slopes, much less rolling hills. Wha..!? Also, forget about any spells or monsters that involve levitation of any kind. Like Dragons. Yes, there are those in NWN, but they can't fly, just take a walk! Laughable for a modern game. Why didn't they just leave them out instead of banishing them to a life on ground?
- Poor and shallow built-in campaigns both in NWN and SoU using cliche stories.
- Modifications usually look similar to each other due to rather large tiles. Some custom tilesets are nice, and others amateurish. All campaigns using custom tiles grow considerably in download size.
- Almost completely lacking the proper RPG "feeling" in worlds composed of undetailed polygons and monsters with poor AI.
- Still many missing D&D rules or improperly implemented spells, etc. Mordenkainen's Sword is a monster (not a sword) for example. :-/

Dumbed down combat (2, Interesting)

Ih8sG8s (4112) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501857)

Don't get me wrong, I likes NWN, and even spent some time creating a module, but I find the combat uninspiring.

Bioware took lots of liberties in the combat and game mechanics. It's not even close to following the D&D v3.x ruleset.

If you like proper D&D tactical combat, you owe it to yourself to check out Temple of Elemental Evil. The game, as a whole is great, although there are a few bugs which are supposed to be addressed in an upcoming patch. It has THE BEST tactical turn-based combat engine I have seen, and it follows as closely to the letter of D&D 3.5 as you can get. As a matter of fact, the developers list (in the maual) the rare circumstances where the D&D ruleset is abandoned, why, and how it effects gameplay.

The combat in ToEE is D&D combat bliss.

Re:Dumbed down combat (1)

Photon Ghoul (14932) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502111)

I agree, that when comparing computer RPG D&D-inspired combat to the real thing that ToEE is the only one that comes close.

The only problem is - how do you successfully translate that into a multiplayer environment? Would ToEE-style combat even work in a game like NWN? I'm not talking about realtime vs turn-based, although that would be the major issue.

Anyway, would be fun if there was a possibility of such a game.

NWN vs Dungeon Siege vs Baulders gate (1)

B5_geek (638928) | more than 10 years ago | (#7501904)

This is a comparison/complaint/request for insight.

I am a long time fan and player of the D&D table-top series, and a long time AD&D compter gamer (C64 titles like Pools of Radience, etc.).

I have played NWN, Baulders Gate, Dungeon Siege, and others but I am still waiting for a satisfying experience.

*****
Experience

NWN & BG: Excellent XP model, great feel for character building.

DS : Excellent reward model (kill something and get a prize)

NWN & BG: Takes a long time to level-up (and some rewards a very minimal when you do)

DS: I LOVE the concept of increasing your skills based on what you do. (Hack with a sword = increase in strength) very realistic .

*******
Quests

NWN: easy to get lost/stuck in missions. The game is very scripted (the side-adventures dont' progress the game), if you don't finish the main quests then the game will not continue. This is very frustrating to clear a map and get everything done but talk to one person (who you can't find now) and are unable to continue on with the adventure.

BG: Same problem as NWN

DS: is VERY scripted too (the world is so small you have no choice but to find and finish every map)

********
Playablity

NWN & BG: there is little feel of team that your PC's have for one another. (A bag guy could be pounding the life out of your mage while your other guys can just stand there and watch. I find these games to be unplayable in some battles because even though I can pause the action and issue new orders, it usually happens to fast to do much about it.

DS: You can assign `personality` to each of your characters. The healers can stand back and auto-heal, your archers can stay at a distance and attack safely, the warriors can run into battle at the first sign of a bad guy. But most of all, they all react if one of the team is getting attacked.

*********
Summary:
NWN & BG are both cut from the same cloth. They both feel like multi-player games area requirement not an option. A single-player game is tedious, boring and much-like work.

DS: very playable as single-player game and very multi-play is a huge bonus. downside: It's too much like Diablo.

I would love to hear other peoples thoughts on these games. Am I missing something? Did I forget to click on a "stupid user" button?
I want to enjoy all of these games.

Re:NWN vs Dungeon Siege vs Baulders gate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502178)

In BG you can setup scripts so that your characters will act in certain ways (defensive mage, offensive cleric etc). You just didn't click the smart player button (;

It has been a while so I don't remember exactly how to do it, but just play around with the character menus, you will find it. As for NWN, you can talk to your henchmen and tell them to change their strategy.

Re:NWN vs Dungeon Siege vs Baulders gate (4, Insightful)

The_Dougster (308194) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502291)

You are missing the whole deal. Multiplayer is where NwN shows its stuff best. You really don't need henchman AI to be very good because you will have several human players on your team instead. And enemy AI is definately good. Enemy spellcasters will use their best spells to deadly effect, grunts will often target who they perceive to be the biggest threat.

For the single player game, BGI/II/ToB are hard to beat, but compared to live action NwN multiplayer on a good server with competent players and a well designed module, well it just isn't anything like NwN at all. NwN really has transcended to a new kind of game entirely. Think along the lines of counterstrike, except playing in Co-op mode, with the NwN engine, and a hodge-podge group of character classes. You should see the fireworks when you put a wizard, sorcerer, cleric, and a couple fighters together in a group and get in a decent sized battle. It is just amazing.

IGN Community MOD contest (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7502218)

FYI: IGN has a contest going for the best community created module for the transition from SOU to HOU.

Check it out: http://nwvault.ign.com/features/contests/IGNContes tHotU.shtml

So far I have only played Shadohaunt since it had such high reviews. After finishing it, I can certainly tell you it deserves it. decent plot, lots of laughs, and some neat items (the deck of cards is my fav ... two cards I know of: wyrm card ... RED DRAGON!, and the Knave card .. :( ... looose all backpacked equipment!! ... nasty but fun :)

I HIGHLY recommend playing it. My only complaint is that its abit too easy.
http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/modules/data/1 0661123 20015.shtml

Time and increase (1)

Quill_28 (553921) | more than 10 years ago | (#7502372)

In designing a module is there a time variable, and would you be able to affect when monsters showed up and their strength depending upon the time?

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