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410 comments

into the fent hole (-1, Troll)

(TK)Max (668795) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506669)

______
.-" "-.
/ \
| | < FROM THIS DISEASED MOUTH
|, .-. .-. ,| SPREADS THE WORD OF TROLLKORE.
| )(__/ \__)( | AWRY BE THE WORDS AND OPINIONS
|/ /\ \| OF THOSE WHO POST HERE. TAKE
(_ ^^ _) NO HEED OF THEM.>
\__|IIIIII|__/
|-\IIIIII/-|
\ /
`--------`
.::::TROLL-KORE FOREVER!!!
.::::I hate you, I hate your country, and I hate your face.

Re:into the fent hole (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506721)

what the????

GNAA Announces acquisition of SCO (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506671)

GNAA Announces acquisition of SCO
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"This GNAA shit is getting out of hand. Slashdot needs troll filters. Or better yet a crap flood mod that I can exclude from my browsing. Seriously, a good troll is art, what you dumb fucks are doing is just plain stupid." said spacecowboy420.

macewan, on linuxquestions [linuxquestions.org] said "Thanks for that link to the SCO quotes page. My guess is that they want to be bought out. Hrm, think they want GNAA to buy them??"

After careful consideration and debate, GNAA board of directors agreed to purchase 6,426,600 preferred shares and 113,102 common shares (the equivalent of 150,803 ADSs) of SCO, for an aggregate consideration of approximately US$26.9 million and approximately $40 million for gay niggers that were working in Lindon, Utah offices of The SCO Group.

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About SCO
The SCO Group [SCOX [yahoo.com]] helps millions of gay niggers in more than 82 countries around the world grow their penises everyday. Headquartered in Lindon, Utah, SCO has a network of more than 11,000 nigger resellers and 8,000 developers. SCO Global Services provides reliable nigger support and services to prospective members and customers.
SCO and the associated SCO logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of The SCO Group, Inc. in the U.S. and other countries. UNIX and UnixWare are registered trademarks of The Open Group in the United States and other countries. All other brand or product names are or may be trademarks of their respective owners.

This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances. Actual results may vary materially from the expectations contained herein. The forward-looking statements contained herein include statements about the consummation of the transaction with SCO and benefits of the pending transaction with SCO. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described herein include the inability to obtain regulatory approvals and the inability to successfully integrate the SCO business. GNAA is under no obligation to (and expressly disclaims any such obligation to) update or alter its forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.


If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

________________________________________________
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
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| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
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| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'

Michael was on a 'working vacation' (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506674)

testifying [cnn.com]

In other news (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506705)

All /. server have been sent up for colocation in at UMass.

FP!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506683)

ahahahahhahH!!!!! FP

ugh (4, Insightful)

fjordboy (169716) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506684)

First we have region encoded dvds so we can't watch dvds from out of our country or "zone" ... and now we won't even be able to fall back on "reverse engineering" our dvd players to play these things! Ugh. Just what we need, more complexity in an already needlessly complex market.

Re:ugh (5, Insightful)

sillybilly (668960) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506885)

In fact I welcome such a move - if it's free for everyone to make their own home movies, without having to pay royalties for mpeg2 compression patents, and you can still fit the same amount of movie in a DVD, then why not? I hope the players will have hardware to play EVD movies, and if so, I'm a consumer, whatever is cheaper/better for me I take it, no matter where it comes from. Why is it that we have free bzip2 and ogg vorbis and similar compression methods, but for video we all must pay royalties. The tmpgenc program used to be a complete freeware, used to do mpeg2's for svcd's and dvd's for free, but the mpeg consortium got on the author's case so now he must collect payment for his program, now you only get 30 days evaluation time. Hey if someone wants to give me something equivalent or better for free, I'm not gonna be stupid and say no.

Re:ugh (5, Insightful)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506904)

> First we have region encoded dvds so we can't watch dvds from out of our country or "zone" ... and now we won't even be able to fall back on "reverse engineering" our dvd players to play these things! Ugh. Just what we need, more complexity in an already needlessly complex market.

This is Tuesday. China's the Good Guy today.

Seriously - an alternative to DVDs that supports HDTV and has no copy protection, region control, or licensing (CSS) restrictions. How bad is that? If DVD had been invented by geeks, that's what DVD would have been!

Seems this is just the logical successor to VCD or SVCD. It's also backed up by tens of thousands of tanks whose commanders can tell Jack Valenti precisely where to stick it.

Re:ugh (0, Offtopic)

fjordboy (169716) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506936)

but I just caught on to dvds!

As long as there's no possibility for replacing cds in sight, I'm ok....

It's all about the money (2, Insightful)

X-Mustang (513919) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506908)

DVD player royalties is approximately US$5 to $10, depending if you are part of MPEG LA, 3C or 5C consortium. China manufacturers pump out more than 30 million DVD players a year, so imagine the massive outflow of cash to US companies holding the DVD patents.
EVD uses the same media format as DVD (ie. two 0.6mm polycarbonate discs with reflective layers read out using a coherent light source), so they still have to pay royalties to Time-Warner, Philips, Sony, Matsushita, Thomson-RCA, Toshiba etc for the disc patents.

Not good enough (3, Interesting)

r_glen (679664) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506689)

I don't think it's wise to force everyone into a new, irrelevant (unless you own an HDTV) format just to avoid paying American royalty fees. It took forever for people to fully embrace DVDs, even with all the benefits over VHS. This is not a great enough leap forward to be successful anywhere.

Also, the acronym EVD ("enhanced versatile disc") seems extremely contrived to sound just like 'DVD'.

Re:Not good enough (3, Insightful)

agutier (471583) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506741)

I don't think it's wise to force everyone into a new, irrelevant (unless you own an HDTV) format just to avoid paying American royalty fees.

Doubt they will force everyone, it will be enough for the format to be adopted domestically. As long as they market a combo DVD-EVD player, and push for releases of content on EVD in China, then what does it matter if you purchase this format or that?

DVDs are already segemented acording to their region, which might end up making it easier to introduce a regional DVD alternative. They don't have to target the US, just Asia, and other Asia electronics manufacturers might see the benifit of a regional technology for domestic consumption.

Re:Not good enough (3, Insightful)

tarquin_fim_bim (649994) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506745)

So, you imagine a high percentage of the Chinese population already have DVD players? We're talking about a 1.3 billion population here not California, the national savings would be inordinate.

Re:Not good enough (3, Insightful)

twistedcubic (577194) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506910)

I agree. A country that has 20% of the world's population has no business throwing all its money away to foreign monopolies. China can create its own standards, and have the rest of the world adopt them (and not vice-versa) becuase the foreign businesses couldn't resist the money-making opportunity. If China were buying Microsoft licenses at the same rate per populace as in the U.S., then they would be sending Microsoft enough money to buy a few countries of its own.

Re:Not good enough (4, Interesting)

Su||uSt (151462) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506776)

Wuh?!

"It took forever for people to fully embrace DVDs"

Were you not born until CD's had already replaced casset tapes? The DVD format was the most quickly adopted new media format ever. CD's were around since (I think) the late 1970's, relatively easy to get a hold of by the early-mid 80's, but not really fully adopted until the early 90's. That's around 15 years from invention to full adoption. It took DVD's something like 4 years to do that.

Then of course there were the superior formats that were never adopted (read: laserdisks).

Anybody old enough to know how long it took tapes to become common over LP's or eight tracks?

Re:Not good enough (1)

Peyna (14792) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506824)

I would imagine tapes went quicker; there were very few cars manufactured eight track players, and probably none with LP's.

It is notable that many retail places no longer even sell movies on VHS, but still sell music on cassette.

Re:Not good enough (4, Informative)

MrResistor (120588) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506920)

I would imagine tapes went quicker; there were very few cars manufactured eight track players, and probably none with LP's.

Actually... [consumerreports.org]

Seems like a disaster in the making to me, but people gotta have their tunes!

Re:Not good enough (1)

Su||uSt (151462) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506933)

There were a couple, I can't tell you who made them off the top of my head, but they used slot loaded players (much like card cd players now). They showed them on one of those history channel shows that talk about strange things that nobody ever bought.

Re:Not good enough (1)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506834)

tapes to become common over LP

That has, as far as I know, never really/fully happened. LPs had a better reliability than tapes for pre-recorded media. CD replaced LP, not the tape.

Re:Not good enough (1)

CowboyNick (612553) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506912)

This is not a troll, just inquisitive, but would you care to explain how laserdisc is a superior technology to DVD?

Re:Not good enough (1)

Su||uSt (151462) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506965)

Should have been more clear I guess, I meant laserdisc was superior to VHS (except for the size/switching discs thing). They are obviously WAY crappier than DVD.

Re:Not good enough (2, Informative)

thermopile (571680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506918)

This is getting off topic, but ....

Billy Joel's "Songs in the Attic" was the first album ever released on CD, way back in 1981. One could argue that CD's didn't really catch on until 10 years later.

DVD's were supposed to flood the market for Christmas 1996, but didn't quite make it in time. That's right, kids, 1996. The titles were originally released in Japan: Blade Runner, The Assassin, The Fugitive, and Eraser. (yechhh) Then the first ones in the US were on March 19, 1997, and were IMAX remakes. Batman and Space Jam came next.

Seven years ago. I think it's fair to say DVDs have taken a strong hold in a pretty short period of time.

Re:Not good enough (1)

Su||uSt (151462) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506951)

And I would consider DVD's to have been ubiquitous by 2000, 2001 at the latest. Your grandma might not have had one, but she probably has bought a new couch in 20 years either.

Re:Not good enough (4, Interesting)

fishbonez (177041) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506779)

The market in China is mostly VCDs with pirated DVDs being mostly for tourists and the high-end local consumers. It seems like they are positioning the EVD as a local alternative to DVDs. It'll probably replace VCDs as the local format of choice.

I suspect the EVD might actually be endorsed by the big US media companies. If the country responsible for a lot of piracy uses a peculiar local format, it essentially makes those discs region encoded. Of course the manufacturers in the US and Europe would also have to agree not to support the format for it to be effective at stemming piracy.

Re:Not good enough (1)

t0qer (230538) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506792)

Yes but you're missing the bigger picture here..

China has developed a new compression system. With the licensing restrictions on mpeg and mp3(Geesh just look at what you gotta go through to watch DVD's under linux) this could lead to a new popular standard, just because it doesn't have the draconic licensing restrictions that mpeg and mp3 have.

It goes even deeper than just a disc, set top 802.11 video recievers, sattelite transmissions, with no licensing needed.

Re:Not good enough (1)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506853)

Geesh just look at what you gotta go through to watch DVD's under linux

AFAIK, the impossibility to view a DVD under Linux is due to the CSS problems, not the MPG/MP3 problems.

Re:Not good enough (1)

r_glen (679664) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506858)

You don't think the Chinese government will impose restrictions of their own?

Re:Not good enough (1)

mrshowtime (562809) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506793)

"it took FOREVER for the public to embrace dvds." Yah, right! There have been almost 70 million dvd players sold since 1997 in North America. This does not include Game systems that also play dvds, which add another 20 million players to the above total. The number of DVD players sold have DOUBLED every year since 1997. On the China Front, the chinese could simply say "Look, let us use the DVD technology for free, or cheaply, or we will not build your dvd players for so cheap!" Lest we forget that China is a communist country and they can pretty much do whatever they want UN/WTO be dammned! :) Lastly, what Chinese person is going to pony up almost $300 for a new system that cannot even play their beloved vcds? Heck, they might as well get a ps2!

Re:Not good enough (1)

Uber Banker (655221) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506927)

Errrr.... you are wrong on the UN/WTO point as communist countries have as much say in the UN/WTO as if they were capitalist (and China is most defiately a capitalist country with socialist infrastructure that happens not to be a democracy). Infact, it is the USA which have the history of defying the UN/WTO, more so than any other countries in the world today.

Just thought I'd point that out incase you get modded interesting or insightful, which you are not, you are just wrong.

Also note this was announced last menth (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&q=ev d&btnG=Search+News) and that these EVD systems will also be capable of playing DVDs (somewhere on news.bbc.co.uk) hence will likely be able to play VCDs (MPEG2 n all).

Oh well, bummer.

Re:Not good enough (1, Interesting)

The Munger (695154) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506887)

It took forever for people to fully embrace DVDs, even with all the benefits over VHS.

I was a reasonably early adopter of DVDs. But it was more for the toy factor. What are these benefits over VHS?
1. Higher resolution video
2. Higher resolution, multi-channel sound
3. Extras

You know what I think? That's not a huge list. How's this for a list:
1. I have to pay for all of my old stuff again. Not so bad - it's a new format, someone has to be paid for the conversion
2. They're fragile. You can drop a VHS cassette onto concrete - don't try this with your DVDs
3. They still degrade. Not in the same way as VHS, but some of these manufacturers are putting out discs so cheap they're not even lasting as long as VHS
4. They don't actually hold that much. What's the longest thing you've seen on a single DVD? For any reasonable quality, you only seem to get about 4-5 (maybe 6) hours.
5. They're not recordable. Yeah, yeah I know - not technically true, but how many people actually have a DVD recorder in front of the TV? It's going to be 10-15 years after the standard has been in place before recording will be an everyday thing.
6. Layer skips. For anyone else who has digital TV, don't you find you notice it more when there is a sudden little pop of sound than a constant hum? I find the same goes for video and audio. It doesn't annoy me that much, but hell, I'm having a rant :-)

What do you think? I want more storage, that'll last until the next big thing and presented perfectly. Oh well, I might go some more DVDs.

Re:Not good enough (2, Funny)

l810c (551591) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506906)

Also, the acronym EVD ("enhanced versatile disc") seems extremely contrived to sound just like 'DVD'.

They should make it sound more 'Chinesey' like their Fireworks and Food:

'Eternal Visual Delight'

WHOEVER MODDED THIS INSIGHTFULL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506914)

You need get out a bit more, maybe talk to people.

On avoiding paying American royalties fees (5, Insightful)

Pac (9516) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506943)

just to avoid paying American royalty fees

Let me try to explain it here. Avoiding paying royaties to US and EU is a major component of any sensible comercial or industrial policy in a developing country. in market the size of China's any cent not leaving the country is a cent to be invested in a million of important things to the Chinese population.

Incidentally that is also one of the major reasons for countries like Brazil, India and China to be seriously looking at Open/Free Software - in the medium and long term, the savings in royalties not send abroad usually justify any short-term problems that may arise.

Re:Not good enough (1)

MrResistor (120588) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506950)

irrelevant (unless you own an HDTV)

You can get HDTVs in the 40-52inch range for around $1000 today, provided you don't have a problem with rear projection. I don't think it's going to be irrelevant much longer, especially with the FCC pushing it so hard.

Reverse Piracy? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506692)

How are they going to stop us from bootlegging
kung-fu movies?

Format? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506697)

Why attack the format? Finally, after so much work, we get a format that's capable of being used internationally, and now China just wants to get rid of it?

Producing content is one thing, but what the heck is wrong with having a shared format? Do they want their own version of the Internet, too?

Re:Format? (2, Informative)

NeverReminder (645621) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506748)

Because they 1) Dont want to pay royalties 2) Want more pie from this market 3) Because they can Since it's goverment funded, quite simple would be to raise custom fees for imported DVD, and force foreign companies to produce movies in new format for new market. Then companies will try to sale same EVD disks in other markets, just to cut some expenses, and we will get another pain in ass trying to make a rip from new media :)

Horrywood (4, Funny)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506701)

Oh well, I'll just have to do without all those great movies made in China.

Re:Horrywood (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506827)

Love the subject line... lol...

Re:Horrywood (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506902)

Ditto. I just spit red wine through my nose. If you've never done that, it feels like vomit.

Who is this really going to help ? (1)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506702)

So, China will have its own proprietary format, with no-one outside the country really caring much - the global market is far larger than the chinese one. Seems to me this is just another control mechanism over the media and modern culture...

Simon

Re:Who is this really going to help ? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506727)

seems to me just a higher quality vcd replacement they don't have to pay license fees when manufacturing players(or whatever) for.

.

Re:Who is this really going to help ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506762)

since when would the Chinese have to worry about paying licensing fees?

Re:Who is this really going to help ? (1)

mickwd (196449) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506881)

"Seems to me this is just another control mechanism over the media and modern culture..."

By trying to (legitimately) avoid DVD patents and regional encoding, it seems to me like they're trying to avoid control mechanisms over the media and modern culture.

China is 20% of the global market (2, Informative)

chmilar (211243) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506899)

China, at 1.3 billion people, is 20% of the world's 6.4 billion.

That's enough to sustain their own format, and to attract interest from foreign media providers.

If India was to team up on the EVD, they'd have 35%!

Re:Who is this really going to help ? (4, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506931)

Yeah, the domestic Chinese market is only 1/4 the world market, or 4 times larger than the American domestic market.

How on earth do they expect this to fly with a highly patriotic and semi captive market of only a billion or so people?

It's madness.

And certainly no one here on Slashdot would feel inclined to adopt the standard if the Chinese choose to make it competitive by releasing it as an open standard ala the CD.

We just love attempts to "DVDize" the Compact Disc.

What would be wrong about taking the format out of the hands of the MPAA and DVD Consortium? Just the fact that it comes from China?

Like the compass, silk, lacquer, gunpowder and noodles?

A good idea is a good idea. I think an open video format is a good idea. If that's what the Chinese are up to I'll go at least one round of The East is Red with them.

KFG

Re:Who is this really going to help ? (1)

hondo77 (324058) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506944)

...the global market is far larger than the chinese one.

If nobody else wants to be the market leader in just China, I'll volunteer. It will be a struggle selling to a market with over a billion people but I'll struggle along somehow.

WoO! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506703)

Americans can start selling home-made $3 Chinese EVDs! Turnabout, etc.

VCD? (1)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506708)

i heard yesterday that 20% of their gross national product is counterfeit goods including american DVD rips and software titles.

if they take out DVD in china, will they still rip american DVDs to their new format? if so, WHAT THE FUCK HAVE THEY GAINED?

as the CFO of my company put it, china needs to wake up if they want to play with the big boys in the global economy.

Re:VCD? (1)

thenextpresident (559469) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506772)

Of course, the western world should also wake up to the emerging Chinese market. A over a billion people, they aren't a market to ignore. However, most people still ignore the eastern markets like China and Taiwan.

I'm confused (1)

Joe Tie. (567096) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506709)

So are they talking about a new video compression format on already existing storage mediums, or mpeg 1 or 2 on something other than a dvd - like a vcd/svcd?

Sound Famalier? (1)

soliaus (626912) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506710)

First we have the great firewall of China, and now we get China == Microsoft?
Lets do our own format with everything so nothing works together!

Yeah, lets do that...

Are there any liscensing issues? (0, Troll)

Fux the Penguin (724045) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506732)

Since these video disc players are not DVD licensed, do they have the right to use DVD keys to decrypt existing DVDs? These keys, I imagine, are licensed along with the patent and royalty agreements. This will work great in non-DMCA countries, the USA, however, will likely stop them at customs after some mild lobbying from various patent owners and trade groups. It's very likely that these are destined for the huge chinese market, but they are probably hoping to skirt around the law and get these into the US as well.

Or, they may be more interested in distributing content without a licensing fee than in distributing players without paying a licensing fee. To produce a DVD, a license fee must be paid per disk. If they produce a disk using their new format, there is no fee. (This is a win for independent producers of content, as well as for countries keen on reducing cash transfersto the DVD consortium).

To make a player that plays just this new protocol, there is no license fee involved (I presme). The players they'll probably make will be APEX-like, playing DVDs, CDs, MP3s, and will probably pay a DVD licensing fee. At least, auditable units, or units shipped to the west will pay fees. Who knows about grey-market ones.

Yes, there are issues - with reusing others' work (1)

Gzip Christ (683175) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506937)

To make a player that plays just this new protocol, there is no license fee involved (I presme). The players they'll probably make will be APEX-like, playing DVDs, CDs, MP3s, and will probably pay a DVD licensing fee. At least, auditable units, or units shipped to the west will pay fees. Who knows about grey-market ones.
I'm sure there are licensing issues - with re-posting other people's Slashdot comments as your own. Way to copy a six month old post (read the last paragraph) [slashdot.org] without giving credit. Read the original poster's journal [slashdot.org] and you will see that he routinely copy-and-pastes other people's old posts to get more karma.

Ongoing (5, Funny)

Hi_2k (567317) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506736)

This has been an ongoing project. Newspeak for "Yeah, this is a dupe, I know it, but gosh darn it I'm gonna post it anyway!"

Good news! (2, Informative)

Rex Code (712912) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506743)

Other formats that China has backed in the past include things like VCD, SVCD, CVD (China Video Disc, an SVCD-like format in NTSC resolution), and others. These tend to be no-nonsense unencrypted formats that are easier to write software to produce (look how much more free software exists to burn VCD/SVCD/CVD than DVD), and are supported by most Chinese DVD players (APEX, for example).

This will help keep the ability to produce and distribute content within reach of everyone, instead of just the large media companies.

Tlorring. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506750)

Give me a G, "G"
Give me an O, "O"
Give me an A, "A"
Give me a T, "T"
Give me a S, "S"
Give me an E, "E"

What's that spell?

G.O.A.T.S.E [nero-online.org]

Licensing and market share (4, Interesting)

Eberlin (570874) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506752)

"It was developed by a company called Beijing E-World Technology Co. Ltd. using video-compression technologies licensed by On2 Technologies, an American company."

At quick glance, the license doesn't seem "open" which means you'll end up with another controlling factor one way or another...and someone will have to come up and battle with a different version of deCSS. If that is the case, it can't be good.

Secondly, DVD has a heck of a market share. I suppose if anything has a population to take a chunk out of market share, it would be China. However, from observation, it would be difficult to budge the hold that DVD currently has.

I'm thinking along the lines of Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3 -- with Ogg being free (though I'm not sure the EVD will be a free format) and MP3 having the market share. Ogg may have crept up in terms of getting hardware/software support, but it's still not dislodging the majority of MP3 users even though it's of a higher technical quality.

I suppose any disruptive technology to run interference on DVD would be a Good Thing(TM)

Re:Licensing and market share (1)

Cajun Hell (725246) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506817)

using video-compression technologies licensed by On2 Technologies, an American company."

At quick glance, the license doesn't seem "open"

Unless that tech happens to be On2's VP3, in which case it is open. Interesting you mentioned Ogg. Ogg as in Ogg Theora?

Haven't they been attacking dvd's for some time? (1)

Gyorg_Lavode (520114) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506759)

Haven't they been attacking DVD's by pirating the living hell out of them for some time now?

Re:Haven't they been attacking dvd's for some time (1)

hondo77 (324058) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506964)

I bet the Chinese government will somehow find a way to crack down on EVD player manufacturers that don't pay their license fees.

In Related News, Jack Valenti . . . (2, Funny)

StefanJ (88986) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506760)

. . . calls on President Bush for a preemptive nuclear strike.

"This isn't about marketing dominance or intellectual property rights," said the movie industry mogul, "They hate our freedom!"

Re:In Related News, Jack Valenti . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506878)

In realted news ... your a liberal tool. Isn't there a tree somewhere you should be hugging or a whale you should be trying to save? Bush won the election in 2000 and he'll win again in 2004. Get over it. You've lost the House, you've lost the Senate, you've lost the majority of the govenorships and you've lost the White House. Keep up the good work!

But... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506767)

But will it show this? [yahoo.com]

WARNING! LINKS TO NASTY WEBSITE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506777)

that is a nasty link to Butt Fish [aol.com]

Shut up. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506803)

:P

China's Problem (1)

Swanktastic (109747) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506771)

China has a serious "Not Invented Here" problem... Half of their "innovation" pet projects are the brainchild of some bureaucratic PHB, which i'm guessing are worse than the standard garden variety PHB.

Some more information would be nice (1)

noname3 (580108) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506787)

Will it support region encoding? What copy protection will it have? Will studios be able to force you to watch previews? Is the media radically different or just the encoding? Would I be able to play it on a DVD-ROM?

This article has more words but less info than the "G5 powerbook is coming!" one.

Re:Some more information would be nice (1)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506948)

Most probably - yes, optionally :)

It's backward-compatibile with standard DVDs, so it probably should have most of its (mis)features. But once you get an EVD rip of a DVD, you're free to do whatever you desire. :)

Ogg Theora! (5, Interesting)

steveha (103154) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506798)

My first thought was "I hope they are going to use Ogg Theora for this." Then in the article text it said that they have been "developed... using video-compression technologies licensed by On2 Technologies". Folks, Ogg Theora is based on the On2 compression technologies!

The Chinese market is huge. Many DVD players are made in China. It seems very likely to me that the EVD standard will at least carve out a niche for itself. Potentially, it will have sufficient impact that all future DVD players will be made EVD-compatible. It ought to just be a matter of putting some more stuff in the ROM of the DVD player. It this really is based on Ogg Theora, there will be no fees or royalties to pay.

Of course, the MPAA will probably drag their heels about releasing Hollywood movies in EVD format. But I would love it if there was a widespread standard based on Ogg Theora, so I could burn my own discs using nothing but free software and know that my friends have players that can watch the discs.

steveha

Re:Ogg Theora! (3, Informative)

Vann_v2 (213760) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506847)

China licensed VP5 and VP6 for use in the EVD standard, at least according to On2 [on2.com] themselves. However, Ogg Theora is based on VP3 but is not perfectly compatible. [theora.org]

VP5 and VP6, not Ogg Theora (1)

steveha (103154) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506940)

I didn't realize that On2 had other, improved codecs. VP3 (which Ogg Theora is based on) is an older one. VP5 and VP6 are newer ones.

Oh, well. I can still hope that the EVD standard will play Ogg Theora as a bonus. Most DVD players can play VCD, so that isn't too unlikely.

Thanks for the correction.

steveha

Way to go (1)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506799)

All i know is i want one, the unmarked DVD aspect will surely make it a good buy because it wount adhere to any of the MPAAs bull shit - ie fast forwarding and region encoding which is something the general public can grasp, so hopefully these things will sell around the world and introduce a new format while not making people have to update their collections :P

Predicting 0% marketshare for EVD (3, Insightful)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506802)

I don't see EVD being much of a issue outside of China because it does not offer any advantage to consumers (DVD has HDTV plans too). Unless China wants to spend $100 million (or more) marketing the new format to Western consumers, they aren't going to get any market share here. Even in China, it will be an uphill battle. I don't see why Chinese consumers would buy the more expensive format, unless they are Patriotic and have money to burn. Also, I'd bet that media production has reached critical mass for DVD. How will China convince pressing plants to adapt to EVD?

Re:Predicting 0% marketshare for EVD (2, Insightful)

pla (258480) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506981)

I don't see EVD being much of a issue outside of China because it does not offer any advantage to consumers

Reduced patent encumbrance means cheaper players and media. Everyone wants that (except the MPAA and the MPEG consortium).

Basing their codec on an open source one means that we'll have the ability to play these under Linux without breaking the law (and perhaps even encode our own material without uber-expensive authoring software (or breaking the law)).

No region protection means we can buy the $39 special at WallyWorld without needing to research it to make sure we can region-unlock it to watch imported movies.

Using a "modern" encoding technique, rather than crappy ol' MPEG-2, doesn't just mean it can encode for HDTV... It means, for standard DVD-sized frames (720x480 and there like), higher quality images in the same space, or more material at the same quality. How many DVDs have you watched where, if you paused it (and sometimes without even doing that) you could see encoding artifacts? Personally, I'd say I have yet to see a DVD where I couldn't see at least one glaring encoding artifact somewhere during the movie.


How will China convince pressing plants to adapt to EVD?

I may have missed something, but I had the impression that they made this as a sort of "DVD without the encumbrance", not "DVD with new stuff"... Basically a data-mode DVD with a new media compression format, which any existing plant could produce, and most existing players could read with only a firmware upgrade.

Though on that last point, I admit I do not know enough about the specifics of EVD to say that with certainty. Considering their stated goals, however, it seems almost guaranteed that they will try to remain as compatible as possible with existing DVD hardware.

No Comment (5, Funny)

Catharz (223736) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506818)

A spokesman for the Motion Picture Association of America did not immediately return a message seeking comment.

They probably had to get a couple of people in to help them off the floor after they fell out of their chair laughing.

How many 'standards' (2, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506843)

This is getting really stupid. How many 'standard' media formats can we handle?

It will all end up a big unuseable jumble if this trend isnt stopped...

While im not for 'one vendor' ideas, 'one standard' IS good.... ( oh, and make that standard open.. )

It's definitely not about freedom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506874)

Think about it: having their own format allows China to prohibit the sale of DVD players to their citizens, and thus to control what people in China get to watch.

Re:It's definitely not about freedom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506928)

Think about it: having their own format allows China to prohibit the sale of DVD players to their citizens, and thus to control what people in China get to watch.

And having their own space program prevents illegal emigration to Moon?

Good or Bad? (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506875)

Are DVD's good or bad, isn't CSS supposed to stand for all that is wrong with the DMCA and this new format AFAIK is unencrypted so why are people bashing it?
I welcome our Chinese EVD Overlords (sorry, had to say it)

high definition dvd (1)

zymano (581466) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506880)

EVD. Maybe too little too late. Instead copying DVD , how about getting ahead of the market and make something alot of us videophiles really want . Recordable hdtv.

Solid state? (2, Interesting)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506898)

Or at least with minor moving parts like a tiny mirror or such?
IMHO following the "disk" trend is a mistake. CD and DVD could have been made i.e. rectangular, with drive that would just sweep the laser ray over immobile surface. Cheaper, faster, less error-prone... and less resembling a vinyl record, so Sony decided it should be round and rotate instead, so people would prefer to buy it.

I still hope some next generation media won't follow dumb marketing trends and prefer efficiency over "legacy looks", but it seems China failed my hopes this time.

Re:Solid state? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7506963)

Consider the changing angle from the center of the disk (or rectangle) to the outside. Consider that you need two axes of motion rather than one.

Moving the media past a stationary sensor may well be easier than remote sensing under varying conditions, or moving the sensor. Hard drives still do it that way, after all. And if you're spinning something, it might as well be round; otherwise, you're just throwing away otherwise accessible storage area.

Do EVDs support the notion of "regions"? (1)

kwerle (39371) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506907)

If they don't, I'm all for them.
If they do, I don't care at all.

Video Codec Appears To Be VP5 & VP6 (3, Informative)

Effugas (2378) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506952)

I looked into this a bit [afterdawn.com]. Apparently Chinese manufacturers are starting to balk at the ~$350M going out to Japanese DVD patent holders, and the government is listening.

Remember -- fifty years ago, Japan tried to colonize Southeast Asia. Southeast Asia is still pissed.

Anyway, the video codec appears to be On2's VP5 and VP6 -- which, being much newer codecs than MPEG-2, support HDTV resolutions and DVD bitrates -- supposedly with quality as good, if not better, than Microsoft's solution. (Caveat: I was not impressed with VP3, the algorithm open sources by On2 and being tweaked heavily into Ogg Theora.) Not said is what's being used for the audio codec. While audio compression and video compression are two very different things, it's problematic when the two are grown utterly separate from one another. DVD has this problem -- MPEG-2 and AC3 (Dolby Digital) have slightly different frame sizes, making it much more awkward to edit accurately.

Yours Truly,

Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com

What surprised me most... [OT] (0, Offtopic)

RobertB-DC (622190) | more than 10 years ago | (#7506968)

What surprised me most was the URL [excite.com] of the story!

I remember using Excite as my search of choice for full-text searches, back before Yahoo! started charging for everything [google.com], including directory listings. Then, there was Webcrawler, once the home of the canonical robots.txt [searchengineworld.com] standard.

I even remember back in the day, when not [altavista.com] all [digital.com] AltaVistas were created equal.

Then came Google's PigeonRank [google.com] system, and it's been downhill (or uphill, whichever you see as a positive metaphor) ever since.

So the Excite.com link was a trip down memory lane. Not that I'm expecting the Good Old Days to return; when I tried to access the home page with my Opera [opera.com] browser, I got an error message [excite.com]: "The browser you're using is not allowing you to sign in to Excite." Don't worry, Excite.com... I won't be trying again.
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