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Debian 3.0r2 Released

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the wh00t dept.

Debian 285

FrankoBoy writes "As announced on DistroWatch, Debian 3.0r2 has been released this weekend, with some security issues fixed... and Rock 'n Diamonds dropped because of license problems. Here's the official announcement. This release had been slowed by an attack on Debian boxes discussed Friday."

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meeples. yeah. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543685)

meeples. yeah.

DBIAN SUKAS (-1)

Captain Goatse (715400) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543692)

THERe I sauid it, mnonnon has not onoww11

Slackware > Y00r distruibiton.

Re:DBIAN SUKAS (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543737)

Gentoo!

Re:DBIAN SUKAS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543831)

http://www.mslinux.org/ Oh hey MS is jumping on the bandwagon with thier own Distro :)

Debian Sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543837)

I wonder if they have updated XFree86 since 3.0r1?

Choice: Debian 3.0r1 stable with XFree86 4.1.0 or RedHat 9 stable with 4.3.0 - ooh it's so hard to choose... NOT!!!

Re:Debian Sucks (-1, Offtopic)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543899)

$ emerge -p xfree

These are the packages that I would merge, in order:

Calculating dependencies ...done!

[ebuild R ] x11-base/xfree-4.3.0-r3

Re:Debian Sucks (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543957)

Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot translator-o-matic

Gentoo Linux is an interesting new distribution with some great features. Unfortunately, it has attracted a large number of clueless wannabes and leprotards who absolutely MUST advocate Gentoo at every opportunity. Let's look at the language of these zealots, and find out what it really means...

"Gentoo makes me so much more productive."
"Although I can't use the box at the moment because it's compiling something, as it will be for the next five days, it gives me more time to check out the latest USE flags and potentially unstable optimisation settings."

"Gentoo is more in the spirit of open source!"
"Apart from Hello World in Pascal at school, I've never written a single program in my life or contributed to an open source project, yet staring at endless streams of GCC output whizzing by somehow helps me contribute to international freedom."

"I use Gentoo because it's more like the BSDs."
"Last month I tried to install FreeBSD on a well-supported machine, but the text-based installer scared me off. I've never used a BSD, but the guys on Slashdot say that it's l33t though, so surely I must be for using Gentoo."

"Heh, my system is soooo much faster after installing Gentoo."
"I've spent hours recompiling Fetchmail, X-Chat, gEdit and thousands of other programs which spend 99% of their time waiting for user input. Even though only the kernel and glibc make a significant difference with optimisations, and RPMs and .debs can be rebuilt with a handful of commands (AND Red Hat supplies i686 kernel and glibc packages), my box MUST be faster. It's nothing to do with the fact that I've disabled all startup services and I'm running BlackBox instead of GNOME or KDE."

"...my Gentoo Linux workstation..."
"...my overclocked AMD eMachines box from PC World, and apart from the third-grade made-to-break components and dodgy fan..."

"You Red Hat guys must get sick of dependency hell..."
"I'm too stupid to understand that circular dependencies can be resolved by specifying BOTH .rpms together on the command line, and that problems hardly ever occur if one uses proper Red Hat packages instead of mixing SuSE, Mandrake and Joe's Linux packages together (which the system wasn't designed for)."

"All the other distros are soooo out of date."
"Constantly upgrading to the latest bleeding-edge untested software makes me more productive. Never mind the extensive testing and patching that Debian and Red Hat perform on their packages; I've just emerged the latest GNOME beta snapshot and compiled with -O9 -fomit-instructions, and it only crashes once every few hours."

"Let's face it, Gentoo is the future."
"OK, so no serious business is going to even consider Gentoo in the near future, and even with proper support and QA in place, it'll still eat up far too much of a company's valuable time. But this guy I met on #animepr0n is now using it, so it must be growing!"

-


packages.debian.org already slashdotted (0)

epsalon (518482) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543691)

Even when the story was in the mysterious future.

Somebody knows what were the issues with rocks'n'diamons?

Re:packages.debian.org already slashdotted (1, Informative)

nubbie (454788) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543705)

Google cache [google.ca] of packages.debian.org

Re:packages.debian.org already slashdotted (1)

The_Bad_Bob (691779) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543747)

This still doesn't say what the issues are!

Re:packages.debian.org already slashdotted (0)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543785)

The issues were related to licensing incompatible with GNU/Linux.

Re:packages.debian.org already slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543791)

What the fuck does that mean?

GNU/Linux isn't a license.

Mod parent down.

The Reason - Re:packages.debian.org already (5, Informative)

stu42j (304634) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543799)

From the Debian 3.0r2 Changelog [debian.org] :

"Rocks-N-Diamonds contains sound, graphics and level data which
violate section 2.3 of the Debian policy manual. Some of the
game content originates with commercial sources that have not
provided explicit permission for their reuse."

BTW, aspell was also removed due to license reasons.

Rocks'n'diamonds (2, Informative)

reynaert (264437) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543840)

The rationale for the removal is pretty vague:
Rocks-N-Diamonds contains sound, graphics and level data which violate
section 2.3 of the Debian policy manual [debian.org] . Some of the game content originates with commercial sources that have not provided explicit permission for their reuse.
Bug #210233 has more information, but the bug tracking system is still down. It probably just means that levels, graphics and/or music have been illegally copied from commercial games, which is a pretty common problem with open source games.

Another attack on Debian boxes.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543694)

...was described as a Slashdot Article.

4th post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543695)

ownz yo' ass!

New Debian! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543698)

Does it include rootkits installed by the people that hacked all their distro servers the other day?

Christ, Microsoft's security servers have never been r00ted, yet Linux is supposedly more secure? LOLz!

Re:New Debian! (5, Funny)

Ilan Volow (539597) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543721)

But the Debian boxes were rooted in a freer, and more community-oriented manner than their Microsoft counterparts.

Re:New Debian! (4, Interesting)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543815)

Actually, the parent makes me wonder.

There have been a string of cracks against open source/free software interests recently: FSF, Linux kernel CVS, now Debian. I wonder if it's the same person/group behind these attacks, or if there's any pattern to the exploits. Has anybody looked into this possibility? If so, what have they found?

Re:New Debian! (4, Insightful)

Rufus211 (221883) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543833)

One thing that sticks out: watch your passwords! I think I read that the debian hacks were due to compromised passwords and the kernel hack was due to a compormised password. I guess it's both a good thing (software's secure so you have to social engineer) and a bad thing (social engineering will always work).

Re:New Debian! (1)

iantri (687643) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543844)

Incidentally, I have tinfoil hats for sale for just $5 a piece..

Just thought you might like to know. :)

Re:New Debian! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543900)

Like I said before [slashdot.org] , microsoft's windowsupdate.microsoft.com was owned by the code red virus. While microsoft was busy blaming their customers for not updating their servers, they forgot to update their own. The very servers that hosted the patch didn't have the patch installed. That is about as pathetic as it gets. People trying to update their boxes sometimes saw the code red page instead of the windowsupdate page. It was mentioned here [slashdot.org] , and a screenshot is here [wss.net] .

Re:New Debian! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543910)

Do you really think MS would let it be publicly known if their servers were rooted?

Besides, as the announcement clearly stated, the compromised systems didn't affect the archive in any way.

Re:New Debian! (2, Informative)

Xemu (50595) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543930)


Christ, Microsoft's security servers have never been r00ted

Bzzzt. Wrong. Argumentum ad populum. [datanation.com] Try again.

debian is a truly great distribution... (4, Insightful)

jms258 (569015) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543708)

debian rocks. i can't think of any other linux distro that has been around so long and consistently delivered a great base install and the ability to easily update the entire system. i know a lot of people like to complain about how behind the times debian always is, but this is only done to ensure that each release is as stable and bug-free as possible. the debian developers should be commended for all of their hard work that they've put in over the years, especially in the face of adversity such as the recent security breach.

Re:debian is a truly great distribution... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543751)

Crack-head modderators. The parent post get's an "offtopic" when it's clearly *ON* topic and even prasing the distro in the topic...

fucktards..

Re:debian is a truly great distribution... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543804)

Take it to metamod, or use your modpoints yourself. Deal with it, I moderated it up anyway happy?

Re:debian is a truly great distribution... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543926)

Yes, thank you. My points expired last night or I would've myself. Again, thanx.

Re:debian is a truly great distribution... (1, Funny)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543953)

.... and with kde 2.2 wow! Real updated.

Re:debian is a truly great distribution... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7544019)

Yeah not only that, Sarge doesn't even have X 4.3, I have to build it myself, 4.2.1 doesn't even support any of the newer graphic cards. WTF am I suppose to do?

Re:debian is a truly great distribution... (1)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544066)

WTF am I suppose to do?

Well you could get a nVidia card and use their modules...

Does this mean... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543711)

Disclaimer : Don't get me wrong, I love deiban, I use it on my Apple macs all the time, a user since Potato in 2000.

That we can get some uptodate software in Debian. Even Unstable is out of date. For example, Gnome 2.2, SodiPodi 0.31, OpenOffice 1.0 are still in Debian unstable even though their new versions have been out for MONTHS. Hopefully Debian will get some new maintainers soon.

Re:Does this mean... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543743)

unstable has gnome 2.4, sodipodi 0.32, OOo 1.1 (as of the last time I updated). If you want to troll, get your facts right. Besides still having XFree86 4.2, unstable is pretty uptodate imho...

Re:Does this mean... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543800)

If you want up to date software, go play with Gentoi or something equally stupid.

Re:Does this mean... (0, Offtopic)

SpiritC (163392) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543923)

erm... unstable out of date ?
sodipodi 0.32.uus.20031012-2 testing
sodipodi 0.32.uus.20031012-2 unstable
openoffice.org 1.1.0-2 testing
openoffice.org 1.1.0-2 unstable
libgnome2-0 2.4.0-4 testing
libgnome2-0 2.4.0-4 unstable
doesnt seem out of date to me ;)

My first debian (3, Interesting)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543712)

Way to go guys :-)

This is the first-ever Debian I'm going to download and try out. I figure I ought to be able to get to know it as well as I know RH before the RHN support is switched off next year.

It's not that I've decided to ditch RH - I may just cough up for the new RH packages, but I'd like to know what my options are :-)

Simon

Re:My first debian (4, Informative)

OMG (669971) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543763)

Good choice ;-)

The stable distri of debian has one problem: Many programs made a lot of progress in the last month and the distro doesn't reflect that so far. So you will need to add some more (unoffical) sources to your apt configuration. Check the manual for details.

One important page for finding the right source for a recent Mozilla, OpenOffice or X11 is:
http://www.apt-get.org/

Have fun! *eg*

Re:My first debian (0)

LousyPhreak (550591) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543918)

stable is imho actually not really considered to be used as workstation distro but for servers which need to rely on really stable and tested packages. One important page for finding the right source for a recent Mozilla, OpenOffice or X11 is: why not use the standard unstable dist? mozilla/openoffice are really new (not sure for x11 though, havent updated quite some time) and btw 'unstable' is in debian terms about as stable as a recent distro from redhat.

Re:My first debian (4, Informative)

Zigg (64962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544064)

XFree86 is certainly not the most recent. However, X Strike Force [debian.org] is working on 4.3.0 and you can get it out of experimental. Add

# Debian experimental
deb http://apt-proxy:9999/debian/ ../project/experimental main contrib non-free
deb-src http://apt-proxy:9999/debian/ ../project/experimental main contrib non-free

to your sources.list and you can select the newer version manually inside aptitude [debian.org] (which I highly recommend for package management anyway, if you're not using it.)

Re:My first debian (4, Informative)

Malc (1751) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543824)

Use Woody for a server. I haven't used it as a desktop, but it might be bit too old for you. If it isn't, it will be stable. Use the testing/unstable installation CD if you want an easier install, and then upgrade to the latest everything afterwards. If you use KDE, Google as the dependencies for kmultimedia are buggered at the moment. I use unstable on my desktop, and it's pretty good. The only complaints was X took more to setup than Mandrake (it doesn't like the fact that I have two video cards), KDE install took a while to figure out due to the broken deps, and there's a really annoying bug that puts some garbage in the default X window manager file instead of /usr/bin/kdm (or whatever it is). Generally though, it's good and up to date.

KDE Unstable (3, Informative)

theantix (466036) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543904)

I would suggest following the instructions on the debian/kde wiki [debian.net] for installing 3.1.X on Sid -- you have to install one package manually and then the rest go like clockwork.

Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot translator-o-matic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543715)

Gentoo Linux is an interesting new distribution with some great features. Unfortunately, it has attracted a large number of clueless wannabes who absolutely MUST advocate Gentoo at every opportunity. Let's look at the language of these zealots, and find out what it really means...

Gentoo makes me so much more productive.

Although I can't use the box at the moment because it's compiling something, as it will be for the next five days, it gives me more time to check out the latest USE flags and potentially unstable optimisation settings.

Gentoo is more in the spirit of open source!

Apart from Hello World in Pascal at school, I've never written a single program in my life or contributed to an open source project, yet staring at endless streams of GCC output whizzing by somehow helps me contribute to international freedom.

I use Gentoo because it's more like the BSDs.

Last month I tried to install FreeBSD on a well-supported machine, but the text-based installer scared me off. I've never used a BSD, but the guys on Slashdot say that it's l33t though, so surely I must be for using Gentoo.

Heh, my system is soooo much faster after installing Gentoo.

I've spent hours recompiling Fetchmail, X-Chat, gEdit and thousands of other programs which spend 99% of their time waiting for user input. Even though only the kernel and glibc make a significant difference with optimisations, and RPMs and .debs can be rebuilt with a handful of commands, my box MUST be faster. It's nothing to do with the fact that I've disabled all startup services and I'm running BlackBox instead of GNOME or KDE.

...my Gentoo Linux workstation...

...my overclocked AMD eMachines box from PC World, and apart from the third-grade made-to-break components and dodgy fan...

You Red Hat guys must get sick of dependency hell...

I'm too stupid to understand that circular dependencies can be resolved by specifying BOTH .rpms together on the command line, and that problems hardly ever occur if one uses proper Red Hat packages instead of mixing SuSE, Mandrake and Joe's Linux packages together (which the system wasn't designed for).

All the other distros are soooo out of date.

Constantly upgrading to the latest bleeding-edge untested software makes me more productive. Never mind the extensive testing and patching that Debian and Red Hat perform on their packages; I've just emerged the latest GNOME beta snapshot and compiled with -09 -fomit-instructions, and it only crashes once every few hours.

Let's face it, Gentoo is the future.

OK, so no serious business is going to even consider Gentoo in the near future, and even with proper support and QA in place, it'll still eat up far too much of a company's valuable time. But this guy I met on #animepr0n is now using it, so it must be growing!

Re:Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot translator-o-matic (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543938)

LOL. Well done, my man.

Wow... now it's as updated as Red Hat 5.0 (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543722)

Hallalujuah!!!!

Re:Wow... now it's as updated as Red Hat 5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543812)

thats so true.

what was the last RedHat distro to ship with a 2.2 kernel by default?

Rocks and Diamounds? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543730)

What a shame, I orginally found that game on Mandrake 8.1, Its really quite good. Even if its going away, there is still gnome stones which is is similar. Find it in the gnome games pack. While I don't use debian, its quite a shame that Debian seems to be removing this game. Apt-get (or urpmi it if you use mandrake) it while you can!

PLEASE CALCULATE MD5 SUMS! (2, Informative)

Amsterdam Vallon (639622) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543749)

The hack attack from last week (as cited in the write-up) could have grave effects on Linux servers worldwide if you don't check the MD5 sumations against your downloaded packages.

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543776)

This is something that most users do not do.

if you do not know how to do it, simply use the md5sums program on the files you download and compare the output to those given by Debian members

UNFAIR MODERATION ALERT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543839)

There was no reason to moderate this post down.

The fact is that Debian *was* comprimised, and unless you are a zealot who thinks that Linux is unhackable and you can blindly trust these packages, you should be checking their MD5's.

He wasn't suggesting that you don't use Debian or don't use Linux, he was just merely providing some common sense advice.

Re:PLEASE CALCULATE MD5 SUMS! (3, Interesting)

Meat Blaster (578650) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543847)

I wish Debian would do something like the following:
  • For each new release of a package, the maintainer must submit a PGP-signed checksum of the package to a central Debian authority.
  • The authority creates a MD5 list from all verified packages, and signs it with the authority's PGP key.
  • Upon issuing an 'emerge -u world', Debian grabs the MD5 list, verifies the authority's signature on the list, and then uses the MD5 checksums to verify the integrity of the downloaded packages before installing.
I thought a similar sort of mechanism was at least discussed, if not mostly implemented at some point. This model would at least secure the distribution chain, although it of course still leaves users at the mercy of the developer and anybody who's in the developer's system. I think it's been demonstrated that it's time to make this happen.

Re:PLEASE CALCULATE MD5 SUMS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543853)

Be careful what you say, suggesting that packages be checked is something that can get you moderated down -1, Troll.

Re:PLEASE CALCULATE MD5 SUMS! (1)

morelife (213920) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544042)

Be careful what you say, suggesting that packages be checked is something that can get you moderated down -1, Troll.

The very idea that package integrity should be checked goes against the grain of Slashdot's every founding tenet.

That trolling bastard should be squashed into -25 karma land - and with my karma I afford to can say that!!

Re:PLEASE CALCULATE MD5 SUMS! (1)

Hast (24833) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543895)

AFAIK something like this is already in place. It's just that apt-get / dselect are not configured to fail if the signature is incorrect.

You can help! (4, Informative)

eddy (18759) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544001)

Help test apt-secure [debian.net] .

no yuo! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543905)

no yuo!

Now? (4, Interesting)

psifishdot (699920) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543758)

Why are they releasing 3.0r2 now? Aren't they going to release 3.1 on December 1st [debian.org] ? Has sarge been set back?

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade

Re:Now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543775)

sarge has been set back. I dont think theres even an estimated date at this point. bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ showed 100's of bugs the last time i checked(one of the servers affected by cracker).

Re:Now? (5, Informative)

qtp (461286) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543961)

Not gonna happen.

Too many of the developers have been failing to address bugs in Sarge (testing) and instead have been waiting for or [packaging new upstream versions. This happens during every release cycle, and many developers just assume that this is common practice.

Eventually, Sid (unstable) will be frozen as well, so the maintainers are unable to upload new versions until the RC bugs in Sarge are fixed.

If the release manager would just accept that this is necessary in order to get a release out the door instead of assuming that reason will rule the day, the time between releases would likely be much more reasonable.

The problem seems to originate in the fact of most maintainers having only one machine at home with Sid installed. It is difficult to replicate (and thus fix) bugs in testing if you are keeping your machine up to date with unstable. Freezing Sid and testing at the same time seems to resolve this problem for most of the maintainers.

IANADPM, but I have been using Debian for 6+ years and observing this series of events occur semi annually Every year, policy and process changes are adjusted to mitigate the various difficulties involved in preparing for release, but the dist is growing at such a rate (I believe that Sarge will fill 10 CDs with packages) that new complications must be addressed every year.

I'm just amazed that they are able to achieve what they do, and that the quality of the release is so much higher than that of thier comercial competitors.

Re:Now? (1)

anarxia (651289) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544060)

It doesn't mean Sarge will be set back. Take a look at this :) [19 Jul 2002] Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 released [13 Jul 2002] Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 updated (r7)

Debian server updates (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543766)

http://www.wiggy.net/debian/

liscense issues (1)

Unregistered (584479) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543770)

I guess the sereve's slashdotted, so what do they mena by liscense issues? Is it no longer free enough or what? I thought that vrms was supposed to do that for people that want it instead of removing packages entirely. This sort of stuff is my major problem with debian. I don't like being limited by politics.

Re:liscense issues (5, Informative)

adrianbaugh (696007) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543870)

Debian has never really limited you by its politics, there are plenty of non-free packages available (in the helpfully named "non-free" section).
If you read the article you would know that this was removed due to containing commercial material for which usage permission had not been granted. Ceasing to distribute the package is completely the right (and legally required) thing for them to do; it doesn't mean you aren't going to be able to use other non-free packages on your machine. In fact, with over 4,000 packages available, Debian is extremely well-supplied with software of all kinds.

Re:liscense issues (1)

Unregistered (584479) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543879)

oh.
btw, the article is /.ed for me.

The sound you hear. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543774)

Is a hoard of Debian Zealots trying to convince you to switch. I'm here to pre-empt them.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks).

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debian has ZERO support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky. With Mandrake 9.2, i can just plug in my Digital camera, and a Icon appears on my desktop, it just works. With Debian, i would have to recompile my kernel, mount the device using a obscure usb module, and even then, there is no guareentee that an icon will appear on my desktop, I will have to mount it from the command line.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions [osnews.com] Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME A DISTRO is reviewed. I'm speaking from real world experiance here, My Old packard bell monitor caught fire because of Debian! [google.com] .

P.S (This is not a troll, its insightful flamebait!)

Re:The sound you hear. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543803)

the blatent inacuracy in your past makes me think the whole thing is a troll

you state that you are forced to use a 2.0 kernel

have you never heared of the bf2.4 flavor?

Re:The sound you hear. (5, Informative)

isorox (205688) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543842)

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks).

$ konqueror --version
Qt: 3.1.1
KDE: 3.1.3
Konqueror: 3.1.3

$ xdpyinfo |grep "XFree86 version"
XFree86 version: 4.2.1.1

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

WTF's a .ko? modconf does all that nasty module stuff

$ uname -r
2.4.20

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

You must have a *really* old monitor if it can't cope with an out of range signal. I admit its been A few years, but xf86config or xf86setup or something was fine when I set up my X.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

screen #0:
dimensions: 1024x768 pixels (260x195 millimeters)
resolution: 100x100 dots per inch
depths (7): 16, 1, 4, 8, 15, 24, 32

Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Yes, pay for the manuals and phone support if you want. For online stuff, I used to go to linuxnewbie.org [linuxnewbie.org]

Debian has ZERO support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle.

Well, my usb mouse (cordless, mouse # 2 so I can control xine from across the room, but not my main mouse) works fine, as does my USB mp3 player and sound card. My modem was fine too when I used one, but I don't have a scanner. Printer worked too, but I sold it when I emmigrated.


Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!)


It's a superior format

Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share

That's just it, Debian isn't a commercial distro, it'll go As long as people develop it. If it's not for you, fine. TBH If I had time I'd probably migrate my desktop away from Debian. My laptop's too slow to run a modern distro though. Use whatever floats your boat.

Re:The sound you hear. (1)

mackstann (586043) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543882)

That was what we call a "troll." You're supposed to ignore them.

Re:The sound you hear. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543988)

How did you install them though? By compiling it yourself? That can be nasty and could cause conflicts. For example you could compile another app or run apt-get and a dependancy on the old version you just replaced could show. Or your program will link with an older version when compiling. It just sounds like a pain to work with. This is the reason I despise rpm distro's.

I know Debian is popular here but the troll did have a point with outdated apps. Yes its stable of course but at what cost?

I prefer FreeBSD myself. Just as stable and more recent with no .rpm hell. I can just selection the versions I want through the ports.

Re:The sound you hear. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543940)

What a waste of time. All that 'insightful flamebait' and not a lick of research done beforehand.

Gnome in sid is at 2.4, KDE is 3.1, and XFree86 is 4.2 (with 4.3 available in experimental)

I'm currently copying images from my digital camera over USB, run my console on a nice 1600x1200 framebuffer, and X at the same res in true color.

Torrent please for the ISO's (0, Informative)

corebreech (469871) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543783)

Thank you for your support.

Re:Torrent please for the ISO's (3, Informative)

Malc (1751) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543838)

What are whittering on about? This is Debian and this bittorrent thingy isn't needed. Use jigdo, or a netinst ISO and apt-get. Kids of today!

Re:Torrent please for the ISO's (1)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543884)

I don't know jigdo. But I love torrent because it tries not to download the file from the source but from the downloading clients. Does jigdo do this too?

Re:Torrent please for the ISO's (1)

Jameth (664111) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544049)

How was this modded as informative? Was it intended to be? It just sounded sarcastic to me.

Honestly, none of the things he pointed to does anything about the bandwidth problem, as it all still comes from the server, which promptly dies, unless they've changed a lot since I last looked.

One follows the other (1, Informative)

t0ny (590331) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543794)

This... This release had been slowed by an attack on Debian boxes discussed Friday.

was caused by this... This release had been slowed by an attack on Debian boxes discussed Friday.

just some info for those playing at home.

DOH!! correction (1)

t0ny (590331) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543801)

This... with some security issues fixed...

was caused by this... This release had been slowed by an attack on Debian boxes discussed Friday.

just some info for those playing at home.

Security fixes in the release. (1)

SlashSpam (720086) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544024)

In reponse to "DOH!! correction [slashdot.org] "

No, the release was not delayed so that security fixes could be put in it. The release was delayed, but the security fixes in it, are not related to the cracking of the Debian file servers. Some rumors say the reason was password compromise, but I still don't know for sure what the reason was.

Anyway, the delay was that when you get your file servers cracked, its should be your first priority. They had the release ready before they were cracked.

Click to get more (recent) information [wiggy.net] about the crack/compromise.

/Spam .

mah-jong (3, Funny)

Jameth (664111) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543798)

There are security vulnerabilities in mah-jong.

I must say, those folks at Debian really do there jobs. I personally can't stand using Debian, it just doesn't agree with me, but if I ever need a damn stable server, I'm glad there are people out there looking at the security of mah-jong.

Re:mah-jong (4, Interesting)

stevey (64018) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543898)

That wasn't one of mine, but I've been auditing a lot of Debian packages [steve.org.uk] recently.

Games are an easy target as many of them are setgid(games); so that they may access a global high-score file.

Most of the vulnerabilities I've found [steve.org.uk] have been in games - easy to start with the low hanging fruit and work your way up ;)

Removed packages (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543805)

aspell - license problems
cyrus-sasl2 - minor security and other problems
micq - license problems
rocks-n-diamonds - license problems
tmda - unusable

SCO will be furious cause they forgot
Linux Kernel - license problems

Re:Removed packages (1)

adrianbaugh (696007) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543881)

That's what debian/HURD is for ;-)

Re:Removed packages (1)

psifishdot (699920) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543946)

Don't forget Debian GNU/NetBSD and GNU/FreeBSD!

Or try SUSE 9.0 via Ftp (4, Informative)

bstadil (7110) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543816)

While we wait for the Debian site to recover from the Slashdot effect, head over to SUSE [suse.com] where the latest 9.0 became available via ftp today.

We should be able to take that one down as well.

Question to all Debian Guru's (3, Interesting)

FrankConners (639830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543829)

Forgive my ignorance but I have a curious question about debian.. is there an unstable distro of debian out there (iso) that has all the latest packages like gnome 2.4.1, kde 3.1.x, etc. It would be nice to have a weekly iso with all the up to date packages.

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543863)

there are images of testing/unstable

http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/

however you can always install a minimal stable system and immediately change your sources from stable to unstable and `apt-get dist-upgrade` and continue from there

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (3, Informative)

damiam (409504) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543902)

Try Knoppix. It's a bootable CD with a full Debian-based desktop environment, with packages mostly from testing (but a few added in from unstable). You can install it to the hard disk in just a few minutes (much easier than the standard Debian installer), and you'll have a full Debian system.

However, why do you need a new ISO image every week? Just download a standard ISO and tell it to retrieve packages from Debian's servers. You'll automatically get the newest packages whenver you install.

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (1)

krammit (540755) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543914)

Have you tried Debian's Jigdo downloader? It's pretty easy to use and will download and build the ISO for you. Plus, it also supports download resumes. Give it a try and give their servers a break.

http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (2, Informative)

stevey (64018) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543916)

No, apart from the new ISO's being built for people to test the new installer.

The intention with Debian is that you only install once, you get the updates via apt-get.

I guess this sucks if you've got poor connectivity, but it's possible to download the list of packages needing updates and then fetch those at work - which is what I used to do, carrying my parallel port Zip disk to and from the office to transfer the .debs ...

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543948)

Do you do an upgrade and manually check which packages that need updating or is there some tool to help with this?

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (1)

stevey (64018) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543982)

That would be one way of doing it "apt-get -S upgrade" would show you the list of packages to be updated.

However the simple way of doing it is to install and use "apt-zip", from the description:

"Update a non-networked computer using apt and removable media"

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (1, Troll)

adrianbaugh (696007) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543934)

# vi /etc/apt/apt.conf APT::Default-Release "unstable"; APT::Cache-Limit 10000000; Apt::Get::Purge; # apt-get update # apt-get dist-upgrade Hope this helps. If you don't quite want the cutting-edge-ness of unstable, use "testing" as the default release. Goddammit, I have to type for a bit more to overcome this stupid lameness filter. What gives, Taco? Still not enough text to overcome the filter, this really sucks. I'll start posting words from /etc/words in a minute ('cos that youldn't be lame or anything). aardvark aaron ablabab abracadabra anonymous anteater. I can see a use for lameness filters for ACs but for registered users with halfway-decent karma they blow goats. TACO THESE ARE NOT JUNK CHARACTERS, THEY ARE IMPORTANT YOU GOATFUCKING MORON.

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (0, Troll)

adrianbaugh (696007) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543951)

After all that I forgot to post as plain ol' text... :-/ If someone ever gets round to re-writing slashcode to make it validate please could they replace the piece of crap posting system at the same time?

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (1)

Cecil (37810) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543949)

Yes [debian.org] . If you install from the network, there is no need worry about up to date packages. Make sure to tell it you're installing unstable.

Actually, tell it you're installing 'sid'. Otherwise when sid finally becomes stable and you suddenly start downloading the new 'unstable' packages, things get messy. There's an "apt-get dist-upgrade" command for a reason. Speaking from personal experience here...

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (1)

froh (553491) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543990)

Build your own iso's with jigdo http://atterer.net/jigdo/

Re:Question to all Debian Guru's (1)

SlashSpam (720086) | more than 10 years ago | (#7544057)

OK, this might be redundant by now (there wasn't any replies when I started writing this), but I post it anyhow in case it has additional information:

Debian [debian.org] GNU [gnu.org] /Linux [kernel.org] always has at least three releases [debian.org] in active maintenance: "stable", "testing" and "unstable".

There is different ways of getting [debian.org] Debian. A new way [debianplanet.org] of installing is prepared for Sarge [debian.org] , but works for other versions too I think.

/Spam .

Debian Users (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7543830)

Are you UNCIRCUMCISED?

Then you should FEEL dirty and ASHAMED! How can you have that aardvark hanging between your filthy puke inducing crotch when there is a treatment for the UGLY DICK condition? That's right, as a Linux chick I can't count the many times I've encountered this DIGUSTING problem.

Linux Guys are VERY GROSSLY uncircumcised do to the fact that the leaders of this movement are not. Linus "long foreskin" Torvalds and Alan "uncut" Cox are PRIME examples of ugly SMELLY SMEGMA dick. I suggest that we take up a collection and CIRCUMCISE these guys.

Until this is done, I'll only use GPL software from properly circumcised and beautiful cocked men like RMS. So NO Linux kernel for this HOT GPL chick..only the HURD until these filthy uncircumcised Linux guys get the operation and become clean.

Wouldn't it have been wiser... (5, Funny)

An Anonymous Hero (443895) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543875)

to wait until the servers are up?

$ curl -v http://lists.debian.org
* About to connect() to lists.debian.org:80
^C
$ ping lists.debian.org
PING lists.debian.org (146.82.138.7): 56 data bytes
^C
--- lists.debian.org ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
Is there a page somewhere that at least says what servers are supposed to be working at the moment?

casual desktop users may want to try Knoppix (5, Informative)

jab (9153) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543941)

If you are a desktop user and want to see a different perspective of Debian, Knoppix may be a better starting point. Debian 3.0r2 is Debian Stable, which is very good if you prize stability and don't really want your OS to change out from under you. Knoppix is basically a closely tracked derivative of Debian Unstable, and therefore has more recent software which is often desirable for desktop users. For example, the most recent Knoppix ISO was cut on November 19th of this year, so it is REALLY current.

The other nice thing about Knoppix is that it is very easy to try out, and it also makes for a very painless Debian installer. I use it all the time to install Debian Unstable onto x86 desktop machines (see knoppix-installer in /usr/local/bin). I've been a Debian Developer for several years now, and I've pretty much switched over to using Knoppix for all my installation needs.

Re:casual desktop users may want to try Knoppix (4, Informative)

Durin_Deathless (668544) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543986)

A word of warning though:

Before you decide to always use Knoppix as an installer, realize that it leaves a lot of livecd cruft behind. Scripts and things. Also, it can be hard to get some packages to install, since it is a hybrid of stable, testing, and unstable. You have to be careful.

installing software (5, Insightful)

trans_err (606306) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543971)

I hadn't realized how incredibly limiting some distros were until I decided to install Fedora on a friend's box. Comfortable with Debian, and knowing about Fedora's apt wannabe yum, I figured installing packages would be sinch. wrong.

Let me clearify installing a package in Fedora via yum is identical to apt-get, but the range of packages is very different. Quickly I realized everyone using the large commercial Linux's are stuck with a very small repository of software.

I really took for granted how great apt-get(ing) all my software really is. Before a few days ago I never would have imagined that to install something has common as Mozilla-Firebird I'd have to go and find some website that offered an rpm, which made me incredibly nervous (one thing about rpm's I did remember was mixing them can cause a lot of dependency issues).

Say what you must about Debian, but you can't ignore that it has one of the slickist methods of installing software and updating the system, furthermore, as all the software comes from a trusted repository I know it's most likely going to work perfectly with all my other packages.

aspell removed for "license problems"? (2, Insightful)

Rex Code (712912) | more than 10 years ago | (#7543995)

Aspell is GNU software, available from ftp.gnu.org, and licensed under the LGPL. Is LGPL no longer free enough? Or is this about the use of the GFDL for some of the documentation?

In any case, removing important GNU software seems a bit over the top.
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