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Rio Karma 20GB Reviewed

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the it-plays-ogg dept.

Music 355

asv108 writes "The Rio Karma has been out on the market for over a month now with very little mainstream press. Slashdot covered the product announcement back in August for one of the first mainstream devices that supports OGG and FLAC playback. I've posted a little review of the 20 GB Rio Karma, which, besides OGG/FLAC/MP3/WMA playback, has a great little dock that syncs the player via ethernet. One little known gem is that this player comes with java-based software that allows users to download the software directly from the player via any browser and sync the Karma with Linux, Mac OS X, and any other OS that Java runs on."

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355 comments

meeples. yeah. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554049)

meeples. yeah.

why no AAC? (2, Interesting)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554061)

is there some reason that players are not supporting the New MPEG audio format?

Re:why no AAC? (2, Insightful)

HebrewToYou (644998) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554096)

Umm, because they've no real incentive to support AAC. They *ought* to support MPEG 4, which is the codec, and not AAC specifically, which is DRM encoding. Market forces are not pushing for the adoption of Apple's standards, so Apple must rely on sales of its own product to push said standards. The interesting thing about this is that even this new Rio isn't that much of a contender versus the iPod. The prices are nearly identical and the form factor almost in favor of the iPod. NTM the ridiculous "hype" behind the iPod, including these recent commens on iPod "jacking" -- sharing ones iPod with a passerby. I own an iPod, and like Jack of AtAT says: someone comes up trying to stick their headphones in my jack and I'll mase their ass.

Re:why no AAC? (5, Informative)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554127)

The Karma can be purchased for $290 on amazon.com, with another $20 off with a rebate. That's $270 versus $400.

I bought one last week, and my roomate has the recent 20GB iPod. While I think his iPod is slightly nicer (in design), I don't think it's $130 nicer. But, to each his own.

Re:why no AAC? (3, Interesting)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554130)

Noooo..AAC is the audio coded for MPEG 4.

just becasue Apple DRMs AAC does not mean that AAC is DRMed. hell, you can DRM an MP3 if you like, all you need to do is encript it which is what Apple does. you can DRM an OGG or a FLAC file too.

Re:why no AAC? (1)

Zelet (515452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554132)

Actually you are wrong. AAC is an open codec. What apple uses is AAC wrapped in a quicktime thing to add the DRM.

Re:why no AAC? (1)

Espectr0 (577637) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554222)

They *ought* to support MPEG 4, which is the codec, and not AAC specifically

MPEG is not a codec, it's a file format, just like AVI is a file format and divx is a codec.

Re:why no AAC? (5, Informative)

Pheersum (243554) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554279)

You're wrong. AAC is the generic term for the codec of MPEG-4 audio. Apple's iTunes is AAC encoded with drm. An MPEG-4 file is a QuickTime file... did you know that? MPEG-4 video, AAC audio, with the wrapper being QuickTime... of course, things like DivX are MPEG-4 video in AVI.

Re:why no AAC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554301)

So that means DivX is QuickTime in AVI?

Why No AAC? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554162)

Because Apple sucks ass and is only viable because of the zealotry of a niche market who feel hip to own one.

Re:Why No AAC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554189)

what the fuck does Aple have to do with AAC?

ohhhh..Apple chose an industry standard format, so it must be bad.

pull your empty head out of your fucking ass you ignorent fuck-face and educate yourself as to what the fuck AAC is!!!

Re:Why No AAC? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554419)

shut up you dipshit Mac zealot

Apple is just another anal company that wants to DRM everything and AAC is their medium in which to do so

if there is one thing I hate more than stupidity itself is stupid mac users

I guess it's cool (4, Insightful)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554071)

But can't they make it less ugly?

I know everyone is trying to make these as small and unobtrusive as possible, but this little guy is a little too small and too oddly-shaped (a square???) to be comfortably used.

What would be nice would be a set of bluetooth headphones so that a wire from my pocket to my ear wasn't necessary.

Re:I guess it's cool (5, Informative)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554097)

I bought one a week ago, and I was afraid that was the case. However, I couldn't be more wrong. Holding it in my hand (Im right-handed) feels, well, right. The wheel is reasily accessible to my thumb.

Re:I guess it's cool (1)

quinkin (601839) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554107)

"a little too small and too oddly-shaped (a square???)"

Oh come on... a square is an odd shape???

"What would be nice would be a set of bluetooth headphones so that a wire from my pocket to my ear wasn't necessary.">

So buy one...

Q.

Re:I guess it's cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554122)

What would be nice would be a set of bluetooth headphones so that a wire from my pocket to my ear wasn't necessary

So buy one...

Built-in, dumbass.

Re:I guess it's cool (1)

log2.0 (674840) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554203)

Haha: Supported by All major Oses (OSX, Linux, BSD and Solaris with the lite version of the media manager software)

I think they missed the most popular OS there...

Re:I guess it's cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554242)

I think they missed the most popular OS there...

Amiga?

Re:I guess it's cool (-1, Troll)

Drakon (414580) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554348)

From the alt.religeon.computers Faq:
#
Is Windows an operating system?
Microsoft says Windows is an operating system, but they also said that OS/2 was the most important operating system in the history of computing. It doesn't matter what they call it, since everyone buys it anyway.

Linux users say that Windows isn't an operating system, but they also tend to hold the position that UNIX based systems are a better substitute for more people, and that programmers should give up all monetary aspirations and live as hermits. It's easy to hold those views when mommy and daddy are paying for MIT. Note: As of 1999 it is now even easier to hold these views when the public capital markets are picking up the tab.

my god. (5, Funny)

Valar (167606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554072)

What will we complain about now?
It plays ogg.
It sync via ethernet.

We're going to have to find a new gold standard, and fast!

Re:my god. (4, Funny)

rampant mac (561036) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554147)

"We're going to have to find a new gold standard, and fast!"

It only holds 5000 128kbps mp3 songs you insensitive clod! True /. nerds rip everything in 320kbps blade-enc with lib-froffer.0.024-alpha!

Sheesh!

Re:my god. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554195)

Shaddup, you script kiddie.

True Slashdotters use -q7 Vorbis, or perhaps FLAC.

Gnu/Karma anyone (2, Funny)

pardasaniman (585320) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554263)

Unfortunately the embedded market is run by proprietary monopolizing OSs.

The RIO unfortunatly comes with proprietary firmware. I strongly reccomend the birth of GNU/Karma.

(You thought we couldn't find anything to complain about!!)

Re:my god. (4, Funny)

glwtta (532858) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554177)

Well...
  • first off we'll whine about how this isn't a "story," but rather an "advertisement"
  • then I think we'll come up with some obscure codec that it doesn't play
  • then we'll bitch about the price-tag for a bit
  • then someone will declare that portable music players are balls to begin with, and that portable video players are where the future is (this will be presented in a very authoritative tone)
  • then someone will come up with a list of all the idiotic things that have been said so far

did I miss anything?

Re:my god. (2, Funny)

dubiousmike (558126) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554330)

"did I miss anything?"

You forgot one; Someone will create your laundry list of typical posts types.

Re:my god. (3, Funny)

buddha42 (539539) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554524)

first off we'll whine about how this isn't a "story," but rather an "advertisement"

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of 'Karma whoring'.

da da, ding

I for one... (4, Funny)

MikeXpop (614167) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554181)

won't buy one until it supports...

um... I mean until it syncs via...

until it runs... YEAH! Still doesn't run linux. Therefore I won't buy one.

Phew. For a minute there I thought I was going to have to buy it.

Re:I for one... (1, Informative)

Durandal64 (658649) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554334)

You know, they've put Linux on the iPod [sourceforge.net]. :)

Re:I for one... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554416)

Are you really that proud of yourself for having an iPod? Do you really expect anybody to go like "Oooooh... cool!" now? Do you think you can feel respected by buying an iPod?

and it doesn't include... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554521)

it doesn't include PIM features and touchscreen features like the Palm Tungsten T! Yeah! Or even better, the Sharp Zaurus!

(ok, seriously, I *am* waiting for the HD MP3/OGG players and PDAs to merge - call it a personal data store... but this still looks like a sweet little device).

Re:my god. (1)

orthancstone (665890) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554300)

I'll complain...the capacity.

I don't even have 10 GB of ogg files...so having all that extra space for the price does nothing for me. FINALLY a player that supports what I want but it has way more space than I need (and therefore won't pay for at the moment).

Oh well, good to see progress :).

OGG (4, Interesting)

typobox43 (677545) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554073)

It's nice to see that some mainstream players are finally starting to add OGG support to their products. It's about time for a change.

Cheaper price (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554075)

A cheaper place to find this item is www.newegg.com. Last I checked it was 295 w/ free shipping. They are a fairly reputable dealer.

Re:Cheaper price (1)

punker (320575) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554146)

I'm still kicking myself over this. About a month ago, Dell had this for $78, with a $20 rebate to boot. Too bad I didn't see it until the morning after when they pulled it.

Re:Cheaper price (1)

fantastic max (690355) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554182)

I'm still kicking myself over this. About a month ago, Dell had this for $78, with a $20 rebate to boot. Too bad I didn't see it until the morning after when they pulled it.

And those of us who did order it got it cancelled by Dell soon after.

Re:Cheaper price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554211)

Doesn't matter. They didn't honor the price and cancelled all the orders.

- Jon (someone who did get in on that deal)

Re:Cheaper price (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554296)

Amazon has it for $125 right now [amazon.com].

That's got to be a typo too. But Amazon, in general, honors misprints. Get it while it's hot.

Re:Cheaper price (5, Funny)

uradu (10768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554496)

> www.newegg.com [...] They are a fairly reputable dealer.

OH MY GOD! A heretic! Someones pass me the noose! Dude, calling The Egg "fairly reputable" amongst geeks is like drinking your gruel with extended pinky on a Viking longboat.

Rio Riot (3, Informative)

DanThe1Man (46872) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554082)

Though it dosn't support .ogg, Rio made a similar 20 gig player a year or two ago that is really cheap now. You can get one on ebay for around $120. [slashdot.org]

The Rio Riot is not too big either (2, Informative)

DanThe1Man (46872) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554131)

Before someone say's that this player is too big, its Dimensions are 5 1/2" x 3 3/4" x 1 1/4" (the iPod's dimensions are 4.2" x 2.43" x 0.78"). There isn't that much of a difference.

It's weight is 8.8oz while the ipod is 5.6 oz.

Yes it is too big. (3, Informative)

wemmick (22057) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554225)

First, the 4.2" vs 5.5" that's over an inch longer (or 30% longer) that it sticks down into your pocket. That's exacerbated by the extra half an inch of depth of the Riot over the iPod. And this auction [ebay.com] says it weighs 10 oz.

This Rio Karma, on the other hand, is small. Its longets dimension is only 3" and it weighs 5.5 oz.

Re:Yes it is too big. (1)

DanThe1Man (46872) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554415)

And this auction says it weighs 10 oz

here [mp3newswire.net] is my source for the dimensions.

I looked again on google and according to this site [dealtime.com] it is 10 oz. I guess the second is correct.

Re:The Rio Riot is not too big either (2, Interesting)

Chris Pimlott (16212) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554394)

When you're talking about something small, an extra inch is a big deal. And if you look at volume, the Volt is 3.2 times as large [google.com]. It's not the same at all.

Re:The Rio Riot is not too big either (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554503)

Using your numbers, it is only MORE THAN THREE TIMES BIGGER.

5.5" x 3.75" x 1.25" = 25.7813 cubic inches for the Rio, versus

4.2" x 2.43" x .78" = 7.96068 cubic inches for the iPod.

Not to mention that the iPod (even the bigger older models) can fit in nearly anyone's front shirt pocket, whereas you would have to have a really big pocket to fit the rio in it. If you buy your clothes in the big and tall shops, this might not be a problem, but I will stick with my iPod.

Re:Rio Riot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554294)

Good lord! That dress doesn't leave much to the imagination.

Re:Rio Riot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554428)

Sir:

I appreciate your exaltations, but please, I would prefer she just wore the dress I gave her.

Thank you and have a nice day.

The Good Lord

Yeah, right (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554083)

and any other OS that Java runs on.

Isn't there some law against using the words Java and runs in the same sentence?

Re:Yeah, right (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554103)

and any other OS that Java **** on.

Try any of the following:

plods
walks
crawls
crashes
leaks
gums

It's called Karma? (1, Offtopic)

Trejkaz (615352) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554091)

I mean c'mon... the news submitter is clearly trying to please Slashdot.

neuros have had the same features for a while (2, Informative)

croFrog (711292) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554128)

You can't go wrong with them. Plays Mp3's oggs's. Works with linux. Supports the community what more do you need. http://www.neurosaudio.com/

Re:neuros have had the same features for a while (1)

marderj (725013) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554275)

Neuros doesn't play ogg. If you can overlook that it's got some very compelling features that the Rio lacks like built-in FM modulator and HiSi (let's you record a sample off the radio, then tells you what song it is when you sync). They both look like excellent players though. Don't think you can really go wrong with either one.

Re:neuros have had the same features for a while (1)

wfrp01 (82831) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554436)

Umm, does play ogg. They partnered with xiph.org (the nice people who gave us the free codec in the first place) to make it happen. There's still some work to do, I think, but their support of xiph is a big plus in my opinion.

I haven't had the spendies to pick one up, though. Anyone have some first hand insight/comments?

Re:neuros have had the same features for a while (1)

tuffy (10202) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554476)

The Neuros seems to be toast. The "official" beta firmware plays vorbis, but only those encoded at low quality (5 or under). Otherwise you'll get nasty skipping. Better firmware available at open.neurosaudio.com hasn't been updated since late August. It plays high quality vorbis with barely perceptable "scratchy" sounds (very slight skipping, I guess), but it's billed as being "very beta" - though I haven't experienced problems.

Neuros owners were promised a USB 2.0 update to their existing units in August, but that's not happening either according to their founder. So the result is a USB 1 device with incomplete vorbis support.

Skip the Neuros and get a Rio Karma or iRiver device.

One little review... (1)

EvilBuu (145749) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554133)

times a thousand avid link-clickers equals no review.

I hope its favorable though, looks like a nice little player, little bigger than an iPod but it actually has more features (absent iPhoto dock, etc). If this gets popular enough to get the price on this and the iPod to drop a hundred then I could afford to get myself one for Xmas.

Compatibility? (4, Funny)

lplatypus (50962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554141)

How can I use this Rio Karma device to get a +1 bonus for my slashdot posts?

Re:Compatibility? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554258)

Oh I understand now... I think I already used the Rio Karma device to get a +1 bonus for my last slashdot post :-)

I'd better not abuse the Karma device so I'm posting this one as an anonymous coward

- lplatypus

fuck ogg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554153)

i'll stick with my ipod thanks. just cause something is "more free" doesn't make it inherently better. just my CAN $0.02.

Re:fuck ogg (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554328)

Your Canadian $0.02 is worth nothing to us.

Ogg *and* FLAC? (pedant alert) (4, Informative)

danaris (525051) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554159)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't FLAC fall inside the Ogg container? I know that most people think of Vorbis as just "Ogg," but it's just one of the parts of Ogg [xiph.org], another of which, if this page says what I think it does, is FLAC.

Regardless, it doesn't hurt to be accurate. It's great that it plays Ogg Vorbis and Ogg FLAC files, and has lots of other cool features; however, I'll not give up my iPod till you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Dan Aris

FLAC != Ogg (2, Informative)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554307)

FLAC is a lossless compression algorithm, Ogg is not. Other than that, they're identical. Well, except for the fact that Ogg offers streaming and 'bitrate peeling' functionality, where a server can prune out data and preserve (some semblance of) the original tune.

Wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554421)

In, your post s/Ogg/Vorbis/

Ogg is a container. Vorbis is the audio codec.

Re:Ogg *and* FLAC? (pedant alert) (1)

Durandal64 (658649) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554317)

Why support FLAC? Granted, I love a free, lossless codec. It's great for listening on your computer ... but you listen to your portable MP3 player with headphones. You're probably not going to notice the difference between lossless and lossy compression. Let's also not forget that playing lossless audio will suck up battery power because it'll take more of the player's RAM for the same amount of skip protection as compared to MP3, Vorbis or AAC. Portable players just aren't the market for supporting lossless audio, but whatever. If it wasn't a whole lot of extra effort on their part, why not?

The great thing about the iPod is that its firmware is upgradeable. This means that Apple could support Ogg Vorbis in the future, though I kind of doubt they will. They might end up undermining everything they worked for by dragging the MPEG group kicking and screaming to more reasonable licensing. But you never know ...

Re:Ogg *and* FLAC? (pedant alert) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554459)

My suspicion is that Apple will never support Ogg Vorbis directly on the iPod (a.k.a. The Biggest Reason For iTunes), for reasons having nothing to do with technology and everything to do with politics.

iTunes is so popular because Apple managed to get a huge number of songs licensed for download. The only way the music industry would have done that is if Apple assured them that the music would be protected with some sort of DRM.

If Apple makes solid Ogg Vorbis support available for iPods, they are afraid that people will start clamoring for unprotected files. That, in turn, means they either have to tell those people to piss off, or alienate the music industry and risk losing (or having a lot of trouble getting future) licenses.

Re:Ogg *and* FLAC? (pedant alert) (3, Informative)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554347)

Not necessarily. I thought FLAC used the Ogg container, and just renamed some .flac-files to .ogg: xmms refused to play them. It turns out that FLAC by default uses its own container, but, according to Debian's man page for flac (1), you can also encode with the --ogg option:
When encoding, generate Ogg-FLAC output instead of native-FLAC. Ogg-FLAC streams are FLAC streams wrapped in an Ogg transport layer. The resulting file should have an '.ogg' extension and will still be decodable by flac.

System Requirements: Microsoft OS (4, Informative)

olddoc (152678) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554191)

Look at the site and click on the system requirements and you'll see RIO states it needs Windows.
The least they could do is say GNU/Linux can be used but there will be no telephone tech support.

Humph! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554458)

Obviously designed for righties, and only works on Windows.

You'll never go broke playing to the lowest common denominator, but your product will never become an icon in its category, either.

Device with multiple use (1, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554192)

this player comes with java-based software

Great, I bet you can put a casserole on it and boil eggs while you listen to music ...

Looking for an audio jukebox (0)

Prince Cyph0r (679537) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554213)

I have read the reviews of the Rio Karma, The iRivaer ihp-120, and even the ipod, and I dont know which one to go with. These three players have a lot going for it; the iPod with its firewire and powerful hardware, the karma with the ogg and flac support, and the iriver with the ogg and FM support. It's just when you think something comes out that you think would be perfect for your needs, there is always some flaw stopping you from purchasing it, such as the ipod only being able to play mp3 and aac, iriver being expensive, and the karma that can't be read as a system volume. At one time, i was going to go for the ipod when I learned about the ipod linux project, as i thought that with some time, they will be able to successfully port linux to the ipod so that it will be able to play many types of files. There hasn't been any work on linux on the ipod, so I am once again leaning towards the karma or the ihp 120, but cant shake off the lack of hard drive recognition and past support of the rio karma, and the price of the ihp-120. Hopefully something nice will happen soon to further narrow down my decision...

Uh-Oh... (0)

Hanji (626246) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554221)

Why do I fear a sudden wave of
Karma: ....
jokes?

Re:Uh-Oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554445)

because they're all gonna be as SHITHOUSE as your attempt at humour!

tres cool (4, Informative)

byrd77 (171150) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554229)

Have had mine for three days now. Loving it.

Only problem is you have to use USB to upgrade the firmware and it's proprietary driver is Windows only. Once you've upgraded the firmware though, the java client works great. Be sure to dl the latest version though. The developer himself has a site, check out www.riovolution.com's forums for details.

I have mine hooked to my stereo in my living room with a wireless bridge connecting to my network. Files sync faster than USB2 over 100mb ethernet, slower over my 11b link.

Plays ogg like a charm. The UI is slick and the quickest and most responsive I've seen on an mp3 player (including ipod).

Well worth the ~$300 I paid. Pick one up today!

And yell at them to make the firmware upgradable under Linux.

features I'm looking for (3, Interesting)

David Jao (2759) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554532)

Hey, I hope you don't mind me fishing for responses, but I have a few things I'd like to ask you about the Rio Karma. I have not seen these things discussed in any online reviews so far.

Does the Karma support dynamic playlist building? That is, can you program a playlist on the device while it is playing music?

Does the Karma support gapless playback? I've heard about the crossfade feature, but I'm much more interested in gapless transitions between tracks.

Does it display non-western charsets in the song titles? Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. Even accented ISO-8859-1 European characters would be a good start.

Finally, does it play vorbis files at all bitrates? libvorbis 1.0 can encode 48kbps up to about 320 kbps. I was quite disappointed that my neuros was unable to play anything below 64kbps. Some of Garf's demo files contain entire songs encoded in vorbis at as low as 4kbps. I have not heard of anyone who has tried to play these back on a portable.

Note that I am very close to getting a Karma anyway, even if the answers are all no... but if you could tell me that some of them are yes, then that would really seal the deal.

Made for right-handed people (5, Interesting)

woogli (602307) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554262)

It's obviously 'designed' for right-handed people. Interestingly, the iPod doesn't appear to favour one hand over the other.

Just a thought. -- and I'm not even left-handed. :) Granted, that's the larger majority of the population...

Re:Made for right-handed people (1)

Scyber (539694) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554426)

Actually, I think the display rotates 90 degrees. So it works just as well for lefties

20GB is not enough! (2, Interesting)

El (94934) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554316)

I've already ripped 30GB of MP3s off my CD collection; best estimate is that the whole collection will take ~50GB. Good thing I'm putting it on a Creative Nomad Zen Xtra 60GB, instead of one of those wimpy Rios! (The Archos looks like it might be a good alternative to the Rio too, once they add a larger drive.)

Re:20GB is not enough! (1)

bitty (91794) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554447)

(The Archos looks like it might be a good alternative to the Rio too, once they add a larger drive.)

That's why you buy a 6 gig Archos on eBay and put in a bigger drive. A trained monkey could do it. Hell, even I did it.

Dell Woes (1)

blackmonday (607916) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554333)

About a month ago this player came up on Dell.com for 70 dollars PLUS a 20 dollar rebate. I bought it and 3 days later got an email saying it was a mistake. I figured it was but I took a chance. Apparently it happened to lots of other people too...

Re:Dell Woes (1)

KrispyKringle (672903) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554536)

They actually are required to abide by that, by the law (and if you said this, they probably wouldn't argue, since the legal fees are hardly worth it).

In order for a contract to be binding, you must have proper consideration (i.e., both sides must do or pay something) and `offer and acceptance.' In the case of a retailer, the offer and acceptance is really just the offer; it is taken as a given that the retailer accepts your offer to buy something for a stated price, if that price is listed. In other words, if a retailer offers something for a mistaken price and you accept, he must accept as well, since that acceptance was understood prior. There are similar situations, such as where I say, `I'll pay $50 to anyone who can cure my foot itch,' etc.

It should be noted that if the bargain is not reasonable, i.e. will not be believed by a normal, reasonable person, it isn't binding. But this was entirely believable and in-keeping with Dell's claim of having good deals ;)

You should threaten legal action and see what they say.

It is the third (-1, Offtopic)

chrispycreeme (550607) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554399)

definition in Merriam-Webster: Main Entry: slave Pronunciation: 'slAv Function: noun Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Old French or Medieval Latin; Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe Date: 14th century 1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another 2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence 3 : a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another This reminds me of a local sudent who objected to the word "lame" as refering to something... well, lame. He thought it was offensive to people with bad legs. Never mind the second and third definitions are: 2 : lacking needful or desirable substance 3 slang : not being in the know Give me a freakin break. If it's in the dictionary then we have to agree on the meaning(s)- or what is the point of a dictionary?

How come theres no posts on the iRiver iHP-120 (2, Insightful)

Spikeman56 (543509) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554409)

cmon folks the iRiver iHP-120 is one of the best players out there and is constantly invloved in the best HD-DAP debate against the iPod and the Karma. search the internet, check out head-fi.org, check for reviews on the internet and you'll find that the iHP-120 is no little player... all iRiver needs is more publicity... shame shame

Re:How come theres no posts on the iRiver iHP-120 (0, Redundant)

Spikeman56 (543509) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554449)

oh actually there was a post on this b4 but still the iHP-120 needs more publicity!

Yikes Slashdotted review... (1)

rune2 (547599) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554454)

Now if their webserver could only get a little karma. Wait, maybe the problem is that it is a Karma.

iRiver ihp-120 (5, Informative)

drivelikejehu (601752) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554470)

I came awfully close to getting the 20gb rio karma, then considered getting an ipod, until i found out about the iRiver iHP-120 [iriveramerica.com]. I chose this because it has the features I really wanted out of an portable mp3 player. First, it's the same size as an ipod 20gb (a few milimeters bigger, but that's nothin), and while the joystick/button design for navigation isn't quite as intuitive (or cool) as the ipod's, it's definitely usable, and from what I've seen from the Rio, probably alot better. It's also black, which I prefer to the ipod's white.

Now, moving on from usability issues and looks, it has some other features that I just couldn't pass up. First, it has an internal mic that can make voice recordings. Secondly, it also has line in and line out ports, that work as optical OR analog. For recording via the input, you can choose to record via an external mic, line in, or optical in. The external mic is a hell of alot hotter than line in, by the way. For all this recording, you can record to wav (optical does 48khz while the rest do 44), or to mp3 that is encoded on the fly, at bitrates ranging from 40kpbs to 320. This sold it for me, as I am an avid show taper (with a pair of clip on mic's and a sony DAT), and this will be fun to play with - I plan to do a double recording sometime to do a comparison of quality between the DAT and iHP-120, but I've already done a test recording at a show and it didnt sound bad at all. My only gripe would have to be that there doesn't appear to be a way to control the level of the line-in, but you CAN adjust the level of the external mic, just not while you are recording. Also, it doesnt show levels so you won't know if it's redlining until you actually listen to it. I'm hoping they might fix this in a firmware update but I'm not very hopeful, although from what my test showed, it might not even be needed.

Anyways, just wanted to chime in, I too think the karma is rather ugly, and the slightly bigger size of the iHP-120 is not a deterrant at all. I guess the only one would be the price - it's around $355 or so, a bit more than the karma but with the extra features, I think it's worth it. It does play OGG's, by the way, and transferring files is painless with USB as the unit shows up as another hard drive connected to your system - you can easily use it as a portable hard drive if you want. There's more reviews around the net if you look, for more indepth information.

Rio and Karma (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7554552)

Sounds like a good 80's compilation album...but I suppose that would be based on the definition of "good"

mirror (5, Informative)

asv108 (141455) | more than 10 years ago | (#7554556)

I set up a mirror [128.118.59.139] since the last time /. linked to my site it died within 10mins due to my host provider putting a ridiculous amount of sites on one ancient sparc machine.
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