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Spector Comments On Deus Ex 2 Demo, Game Now Gold

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the not-so-much-with-the-changing dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 47

Thanks to VE3D for pointing to an Ion Storm forum post containing Warren Spector's comments on the reception of the Deus Ex: Invisible War demo, which was released a couple of days back, and has garnered considerable controversy over perceived console-centric design and over-simplification. Spector, the project director on DX2, and creator of the original Deus Ex, comments: "We're as dedicated to the PC as we are to the Xbox", but agrees: "We've heard the comments about some of our UI choices on the PC side and we want to address them, whether through an updated demo or a PC game patch or both." He concludes with a clear message: "We stand by our game design choices... We honestly feel we've delivered a more focused, purer version of the game we set out to make the first time." Meanwhile, Blue's News is reporting that the game has officially gone gold, and is due in stores December 3rd for both PC and Xbox.

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I'm confused (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567281)

How can it go gold if it hasn't sold a darn thing!??

Re:I'm confused (4, Informative)

SamSim (630795) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567290)

"Go gold" means "the game is finished and ready to start being sold". You're confusing the term with phrases like "go platinum" from the music industry.

Re:I'm confused (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567318)

...

chemistry!!!

Re:I'm confused (1)

darkmayo (251580) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567443)

If I recall "Gone Gold" means they have pressed the master CD for this game.

Re:I'm confused (2, Informative)

mausmalone (594185) | more than 10 years ago | (#7571645)

Gold as in gold-backed CDR, not gold record. The final version of the game has been burned to a CDR and given to the publishing house.

Headshots... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567462)

Why don't headshots with a pistol take out enemies in one shot? That isn't very realistic.

This is another balance issue we're reevaluating. ... The goal with the current setup is to get the player to use more appropriate weapons if they want a one-shot kill. ... Also, we want weapons like the sniper rifle to serve as the best 'head shot' weapon.


Because, as we all know, pistols don't kill people; people kill people. I mean, sniper rifles kill people.

Re:Headshots... (3, Funny)

MikShapi (681808) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567516)

Why does it take 5 pistol rounds to the head to take out a guard?

Makes you wonder. The first four. You think the guard noticed?

Re:Headshots... (3, Informative)

Lightwarrior (73124) | more than 10 years ago | (#7568718)

It would be less funny if you knew that shooting a guard once in the face elicits a confused cry, the second time prompts a stern warning, and only on the third time do they attempt to set you on fire.

Throwing large steel drums at a guard only results in a stern talking to, no matter how many times you do it.

In the world of Deus Ex, those are the two chief concerns - a totally nonsensical damage model and an absolutely abysmal AI (it's worse than the first one).

There are no silent stabs in the back, no sharp-shooting headshots. But it doesn't matter, because the AI doesn't quite achieve the competancy of a brain-damaged dog.

-lw

Re:Headshots... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7571180)

Then there's the wonderful ragdoll physics. You know, I never realised that stabbing a corpse in the foot caused its arms to flail around like that. A bit overdone, perhaps?

Re:Headshots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7576256)

Don't forget that (in the demo at least) you can throw corpses. A long way.

You can chuck them on to roofs, over buildings, across huge voids... But this 'skill' is worthless. You can throw a corpse at someone, and they don't care. Also, if you can throw an immobile body some ridiculous distance, why can't you pick up a live person and throw them ;-)

Re:Headshots... (1)

mausmalone (594185) | more than 10 years ago | (#7571665)

Splinter Cell demo on Gamecube:

Sneak in the back way, use the fiber optic under the door so you're not spotted. Creep in, aim carefuly with the silenced pistol, and cap the cook in the back of the head.

So what do you get out of this painstakingly realistic game? The cook freaks out and hits the alarm so that the soldiers come in and kill you. Funny, a headshot seems to kill everyone else in the game.

Re:Headshots... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7568078)

The problem we were trying to avoid was the case where the player could simply run directly towards an enemy at top speed and shoot them once in the head with a pistol, thus conserving other types of ammo.

With this kind of thinking, Bruce [Willis] and Arnold [Schwarzenegger] would be out of business pretty quickly...

Re:Headshots... (1)

Kwil (53679) | more than 10 years ago | (#7571858)

Which problem is he addressing here?

The 5 headshots required, or the unified ammo system?

I'm sorry, I figure if the player is good enough run directly toward an enemy at top speed and manage to pull off a pistol shot to the head without the alarm being raised, they deserve some kind of reward for that. Conserving their other ammo seems like a good one to me.

Warren Spector (-1, Troll)

zero_offset (200586) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567494)

Are we supposed to automatically know who Warren Spector is for some reason?

Re:Warren Spector (4, Insightful)

Morgahastu (522162) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567527)

Are we supposed to know who Linus is for some reason?

He's a legendary game designer and doesn't need any introduction to most up-to-date game enthusiasts.

Re:Warren Spector (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567687)

If you don't know who Warren Spector is, I don't know why you're reading Deus Ex-related stories.

Re:Warren Spector (2, Insightful)

chrismcdirty (677039) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567797)

It could be because he/she liked Deus Ex, but didn't care to read every story and interview with the people that made it. Therefore, this person can still enjoy Deus Ex without knowing who Warren Spector is.

Re:Warren Spector (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7568676)

RE: Your sig "Fight fire with fire..."

Actually, when fighting large forest fires, they do fight fire with fire, by burning away a fire line to try to starve the main fire and keep it from advancing.

Re:Warren Spector (3, Insightful)

damiam (409504) | more than 10 years ago | (#7568017)

If you care about Deus Ex, you know who Warren Spector is.

Re:Warren Spector (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7572462)

There is a difference between being "fan" and "fanboy".

Re:Warren Spector (1)

AvantLegion (595806) | more than 10 years ago | (#7573323)

I don't know. Would a news story about football need to explain who John Elway is?

Re:Warren Spector (1)

zero_offset (200586) | more than 10 years ago | (#7573407)

A more accurate question would be, would a news story about football need to explain who Walter Camp is, and I would suggest that the answer is "yes".

Re:Warren Spector (1)

AvantLegion (595806) | more than 10 years ago | (#7573833)

How is that more accurate?

Warren Spector is still active. Even my John Elway question might not be so good. Perhaps Brett Favre would be better.

Re:Warren Spector (1)

zero_offset (200586) | more than 10 years ago | (#7574375)

Ah, now perhaps you see my point. Walter Camp invented football.

Re:Warren Spector (-1)

kahuna720 (56586) | more than 10 years ago | (#7580527)

He's that music producer guy who shot that chick at his house.

The Deus Ex demo suxor! Here's why! (3, Funny)

superultra (670002) | more than 10 years ago | (#7568923)

So I downloaded the demo [fileplanet.com] and am playing this Liberty Island level with the statue of liberty destroyed. I've got an AMD k6-2 380 with a TNT2 card. This sucker runs horribily! It's like a freaking slide show! This is supposed to be the Unreal engine, but there's nothing here. I mean, the statue of liberty level looks cool and everything, but honestly. It takes a 600 with a Voodoo5 to get any kind of decent framerate. Who at Ion Storm thought they could get away with just supporting 3dfx cards? This should work just as well on my nvidia card as it does on my brother's 3dfx card. Just because nvidia is new to the game doesn't mean Ion Storm should drop it! Unreal Tournament runs no problem, so what gives?

And the gameplay design. What horrible AI! You can shoot Bad Guy A who's standing beside Bad Guy B, and Bad Guy B freaks out for a minute but if you hide, he's goes back to business as usual, even though his smoking buddy is laying knocked out cold on the ground. How realistic is that?!? Wouldn't the guy go get friends or something? Wouldn't he call up his supervisor on some kind of futuristic radio? Give me a break, this is completely non-real Ion Storm. All you have to do is kill the guys one at a time, hide, and then kill the next guy. Whoopie. And there's more! Like the bad guys would actually leave a vent hole with boxes at the side of the building that you can climb up into. Honestly. The AI sux Ion Storm! They don't even dodge behind buildings, and all you have to do to run away from guys is enter a vent. You can shoot a guy with a poison dart, walk away and come back 5 minutes later and the guy is still standing there like you never hit him. Wouldn't he be looking for the bastard that shot him with the poison dart? Whatever. Don't give me this "Guess it was the wind crap."

The skill system SEEMS neat, but it's so unrealistic. As if within a period of 5 minutes gametime and a helicopter ride to a different level you suddenly become a better swimmer. Riiiiiight.

And let's not even talk about the inventory system. Sure, I got used to it within an hour, but it's like a freaking jigsaw puzzle! Why can't they just use what 's worked FOR THE LAST 10 FREAKING YEARS since Wolf3d and just give me 10 weapons, 1-10. None of this number slot crap. It's like they completely ignored everything that has been done before. Why do I have to inventorize all this freaking ammo! I'm like a walking weapons depot or something. good grief.

This is definitely not as scary as System Shock 2 either. Which, I might add, runs completely FINE on my system. They should have just made it like System Shock 2 and stuck with what works, throw in some conspiracy theories and leave it at that.

Let's not even talk about the physics.

I hear that halfway through the game you can't even sneak around anymore because there are these near-invincible commandos! sup wit dat Spector!?

I don't understand why I have to upgrade my computer just to play this game. It's like Ion Storm was just ignoring their customer base from System Shock 1 and 2 and Thief, which all run fine on my PC. This demo will definitely stop me from buying Deus Ex!

Er... Deus Ex 2 not 1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7569148)

You are talking about deus ex 1 not 2. And deus ex 1 even with some of its design problems is considered one of the best videogames in history, quite revolutionary for its time.

Re:Er... Deus Ex 2 not 1 (1)

Snowmit (704081) | more than 10 years ago | (#7570601)

You are talking about deus ex 1 not 2. And deus ex 1 even with some of its design problems is considered one of the best videogames in history, quite revolutionary for its time.

Yes. That's the joke.

Wrong demo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7569379)

From your description and the fileplanet link you sent, I think you're playing the demo for the original game, not the subject of this article..

Then again, the rest of your comments seem arbitrary and trollish. Good day to you.

Re:Wrong demo (1)

Snowmit (704081) | more than 10 years ago | (#7570792)

From your description and the fileplanet link you sent, I think you're playing the demo for the original game, not the subject of this article..

Then again, the rest of your comments seem arbitrary and trollish. Good day to you.


Yes. That's the joke.

Mod Parent Up. (2)

actor_au (562694) | more than 10 years ago | (#7569808)

You may be modded troll, but your post is the most insightful I've read since this demo was released. Its a beautiful piece of ironic prose.

I couldn't run the demo (2, Informative)

TerryAtWork (598364) | more than 10 years ago | (#7569993)

And I have a geforce mx 440 card with 64 MB - didn't like my pixel shader....

Re:I couldn't run the demo (2, Informative)

mausmalone (594185) | more than 10 years ago | (#7571694)

Congratulations! You have one of the most popular cards on the market, a GF4 Mx! The game doesn't run on your card at all!

I did get to see it on a GF3 Ti, though... and it got a solid 5 fps at lowest detail in 640x480. Good going ION storm, nobody programs as well as you!

Re:I couldn't run the demo (1)

Iammadmak (460794) | more than 10 years ago | (#7574778)

Same problem for me. Its just fantastic to see it after spending an hour downloading the demo off of gametab. From initial reaction, maybe thats not a bad thing...

Re:I couldn't run the demo (1)

TerryAtWork (598364) | more than 10 years ago | (#7576805)

I used bit torrent. I wouldnt think of getting a big file any other way these days.

Re:I couldn't run the demo (1)

fondue (244902) | more than 10 years ago | (#7579190)

Buy a real graphics card.

Disappointed (3, Insightful)

MikeMJH (699234) | more than 10 years ago | (#7570059)

DX2 was a big let down for me. I was expecting something like DX1, with reasonable performance. I've got a 1.33Ghz Athlon and GF4 ti4200, and the game ran very badly. Also, the UI made me feel like I was playing on a console. Lately there just doesn't seem to be any good games being released. . .

To the naysayers (2, Informative)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#7570408)

Athlon 1800+, GeForce3Ti500

Demo ran 'fine'. No tweaking, straight out of the box. If people are honest about the game not running for them, then I will admit that there must be some problems somewhere. What they are, who knows?

the UI problems can be tweaked. Surf around, and you can move the HUD out to the border of the screen a bit.

The controls are a little floaty. Again, surf around, things can be tweaked.

Have a little bit of faith. The dude says they'll patch. With any luck, it'll be a day and date patch, with at least the two .ini changes I've mentioned.

I've preordered, and have every intention of picking up the game next Wednesday.

Re:To the naysayers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7576262)

Have a little bit of faith. The dude says they'll patch. With any luck, it'll be a day and date patch, with at least the two .ini changes I've mentioned.

It's not just user-interface problems, and I imagine some of them will also apply to the Xbox version.

How are they going to patch that?

Re:To the naysayers (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#7577732)

IIRC, the Xbox release isn't gold yet.

Re:To the naysayers (1)

AllUsernamesAreGone (688381) | more than 10 years ago | (#7576263)

If this was a start-up company releasing their first game then your points would be valid - you'd expect to tweak. But for $diety's sake, this is ----ing Ion Storm, a well established company employing some very famous figures in game development! For them to put out a demo that basically requires you to dig around in the ini files just to make it playable is unforgivably unprofessional - it doesn't feel like they have made any effort whatsoever to polish the demo. It actually makes me wonder whether they even tried installing the demo before releasing it!

Quite frankly, if they can't put any effort into releasing a decent demo, I wonder just how much they actually want you to buy the game. I know I won't be paying a penny for it until I've actually seen it running on someone else's machine - I won't even trust reviews on this one.

Re: Pretty damn obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7577010)

It's pretty damn obvious when the demo has a black screen and pops up a windows prompt that says "Sorry this game required a video card with pixel shader support".

I have a GF4 MC 64 meg AGP 4x, so WTF? I bought the card less than a year ago and as mentioned elsewhere here, it's one of the most popular card configurations out there.

Re: Pretty damn obvious (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#7577709)

That's why I bought the GF3 a year ago instead of the lower end GF4: it was more advanced. The low end GF4 of about a year ago was actually a souped up GF2, not a dumbed down GF4. It was even on /. a few times.

Still, you are right in that lots of people bought the things.

He answered nothing (1)

M3wThr33 (310489) | more than 10 years ago | (#7570459)

I haven't perused the 11 pages following the post, but that post answered somewhere between jack and crap. Everything he mentioned we could fix OURSELVES in the ini or knew about already. Basically it was like taking credit for the ini-modders.

What he DIDN'T address was how lack of reloading, locking down weapons(Including the KNIFE and blunt objects), unified ammo, a mouse-less UI and removal of experience points isn't dumbing down the game.

Re:He answered nothing (1)

bmnc (643126) | more than 10 years ago | (#7574258)

you can use the mouse in the UI...i know i do! but they do need a better UI. i like drag and drop, not swap by clicking. this was obviously how theyve done it on xbox and have been to lazy to make it good for PC. I really liked the way they handled thhe bad press the demo gave them, and Im totally looking forward to DE2. I like the one ammo for all idea, it simplifies the gameplay allowing me to get onto thinking about how to play the game as opposed to manage my ammo consumption. the damage does suck, but i figure theyll fix this by the time DE2 ships in a patch. if only they get rid of those damned "helpful/tutorial/frustrating" screens, this game will be awesome.

Taking credit? (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | more than 10 years ago | (#7576898)

Taking credit for the ini-modders?

They could have designed it without any ini-settings, just hard wired values, like compile time defines. It's still much more their product than anyone else's, including ini-modders.

If it were binary game patches to fix these issues, that would be something worth describing as "taking credit".

Anyway, I do agree with the rest of your post.

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