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Implanted RFID Tag To Replace Cash?

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the no-pin-to-steal dept.

Privacy 793

Kulic writes "Wired is running a story about using subdermal RFID microchips to pay for goods. Applied Digital Solutions are marketing the VeriChip as the world's only implantable ID technology. CEO Scott Silverman says they could someday replace credit cards, but a final product is a few years away. They are also receiving condemnation from some fundamentalist Christians who believe that this is the fabled 'mark of the beast' of biblical lore." waytoomuchcoffee adds a link to a similar story at CNet.

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793 comments

NOT RIGHT (0, Insightful)

Amsterdam Vallon (639622) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567534)

This is not right. It violates privacy, integrity, and it makes me feel non-human.

Stop treating us like MACHINES and maybe people will start acting nicely again. I AM NOT A MACHINE.

Re:NOT RIGHT (4, Funny)

Channard (693317) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567562)

Quiet down, Unit 432101.

Re:NOT RIGHT (1, Insightful)

musikit (716987) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567602)

that is more like Unit 770-11-1234

Re:NOT RIGHT (-1, Offtopic)

davidstrauss (544062) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567632)

You could at least use his Slashdot ID.

Re:NOT RIGHT (5, Insightful)

Total_Wimp (564548) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567692)

More specifically, stop treating us like ATM machines for coporations. What if I don't want to or like to spend money? What if I don't want to give my time (going to work), my dignity (begging for loans), my privacy (everywhere!) and now my very body to make if more convienient for companies to grab my cash.

This proposal is like someone who asks to fuck you before they've bought you flowers or even kissed you. At least have the decensy to lie to us that it's real purpose is "medical information" or "education" before swooping down on our wallets.

TW

Re:NOT RIGHT (-1)

JamesP (688957) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567709)

How can a tag replace one of the best singers of the USA??? This is not right!!

No it will not (2, Insightful)

jackb_guppy (204733) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567540)

There is not any advanage to this unless you also believe that Home Land Secuirty is good for the country.

Re:No it will not (1)

cerberus1949 (118779) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567723)

Giving business and government the ability to track our location, movements, and associations 24/7 in exchange for the convenience of not having to carry credit cards seems like a pretty bad trade-off. On the other hand its just what John Ashcroft and his friends in the department of Fatherland Security are having wet dreams about.

Why not retina scans (2, Interesting)

upside (574799) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567542)

How is this better than biometrics?

Re:Why not retina scans (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567564)

If the chip gets compromised you can replace it. You can't do that with biometrics.

Re:Why not retina scans (2, Insightful)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567697)

Yeah, but biometrics are harder to forge, so you wouldn't need to replace it.

Re:Why not retina scans (0, Redundant)

rhs98 (513802) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567568)

At least you can remove it, where as biometrics are kinda permanent...

Re:Why not retina scans (2, Insightful)

Deathlizard (115856) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567603)

Outside of being able to use it via proxy, For Example, you stand in front of a vending machine, press a button and the pop comes out instead of having to look in or touch something, there is no real advantage.

In fact its less secure that biometrics. It can be scanned for it's ID and then retransmitted, it can be stolen,(OW!) and if your account is compromised, time to call the doctor.

Re:Why not retina scans (1)

leerpm (570963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567604)

You can replace an RFID with a new one. Hard to replace your retinas though. Think of it as a smaller credit card, but instead of carrying it in your wallet, it is embedded.

Personally, I wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of embedding. I think a smart approach would just be a small versatile chip that you could place on your watchband, a bracelet, or cellpone (whichever your prefer).

It would just be a new identifer number to match to you. How many bits are an RFID anyways?

Re:Why not retina scans (2, Interesting)

Fembot (442827) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567655)

What about people who have more than one credit/debit card?? Will that become an impossible thing of the past?

Re:Why not retina scans (5, Interesting)

aheath (628369) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567636)

An implanted RFID chip is not better than biometrics. It is an alternative to biometrics that has some of the same security concerns as biometrics. There is no reason why a determined thief would prefer to remove an implanted RFID chip instead of removing an eyeball, a finger or a hand.

I think that any biometric or RFID authentication technology should be combined with a PIN. It's just common sense to combine a secuity token that you posses with a PIN that you must memorize. This doesn't lead to perfect security, but it wraps the physical posession of an authentication token in another layer of security.

The best argument that I can see for requiring a PIN is the ability to assign a "duress PIN" to users. A duress pin enables the security token holder to signal their distress when they are being forced to use their PIN under duress. For example, if someone held up at gunpoint and forced to use an ATM, they can enter the duress PIN. Use of the duress pin would signal the bank to notify the authorities that a robbery is in progress at a particular location. In a computer security environment, a duress PIN could be used to provide access to a honeypot network instead of the production network.

I only hope... (0, Funny)

jkrise (535370) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567544)

Microsoft doesn't get to make these 'implants'. The Service Packs, bug fixes and anti-virus updates would kill me!

-

You Could Make It Fun.. (5, Funny)

AnswerIs42 (622520) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567546)

Have them implant the chip in your middle finger.

You can flip people off and then say, "No, I wasn't giving you the bird, I was buying a Coke."

who will be the first person to have their arm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567548)

removed by thieves to get the RFID?

Speedpass (2, Interesting)

rhs98 (513802) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567549)

Its kinda like the card in HongKong called octopus - http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/train/octopus.html Which is used on the MTR and in shops and busses. Its great and a neat idea - you just wave your walet over the reader and thats it.

Re:Speedpass (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567570)

And then somebody nicks your card and buys a nuclear warhead, or let's say three.

Mark of the Beast ? (5, Interesting)

ultranova (717540) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567551)

It does certainly bear similarities to said mark... I seem to recall that one had to had the mark to be able to buy goods.

Anyway, whether it's the mark of the beast or not, I'm not going to put such a chip on my body.

Re:Mark of the Beast ? (2, Funny)

leerpm (570963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567585)

I'm not sure everyone in the thread is going to get this joke. I believe the author is refering to the former German currency, called the mark. Though it has since been replaced by the Euro.

Re:Mark of the Beast ? (4, Informative)

HorrorIsland (620928) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567698)

Actually, the joke's on you. Revelations 13, verses 16 and 17 say...

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Of course, it goes on from there. Now at least you know...

I have a bad feeling about this (4, Interesting)

billmaly (212308) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567552)

Gut reaction here says that someone, somewhere, would setup some means of remotely reading an RFID tag, hacking whatever PW/encryption is on it, and draining bank accounts. I could see it for small transactions, tolls, fast food, gas, etc. but would be leary about this sort of thing for all financial transactions.

Re:I have a bad feeling about this (2, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567605)

now, I am going to steer clear of any sort of discussion regarding my absolute hatred of RFIDs and their privacy implications.

That said... What stops people now from rummaging through your garbage, finding your bank statements, and draining your bank accounts?

Who needs to hack any sort of PW/encryption to do it now?

Re:I have a bad feeling about this (2, Informative)

robslimo (587196) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567654)

What stops people now from rummaging through your garbage, finding your bank statements, and draining your bank accounts?

My paper shredder, that's what. Confetti type; cuts vertically and horizontally. Don't take your trash to the curb without using one first.

Re:I have a bad feeling about this (2, Informative)

Doctor7 (669966) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567693)

What stops people now from rummaging through your garbage, finding your bank statements, and draining your bank accounts?

I don't know what kind of information is on your bank statement, but mine and every one I've seen only have enough information to allow you to deposit into the account, not withdraw. Some hacking or social engineering would still be required to get to the point of being able to drain the account.

God let's get this over with (1)

Illserve (56215) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567553)

Let's mandate RFID injections so we can end the /. bickering over "personal freedom" and get back to laughing at SCO and MS bashing. At least until that's illegal too.

Nope. (4, Insightful)

Saint Mitchell (144618) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567556)

It'll not happen in the US. Waaaaaaaay too many fundamentalist Christians about. I agree with them on this one, not because it's the mark of the beast, but because I don't like the idea of something in my body being money. I still like the cred' stick idea from Shardowrun. Anonymous, secure and very convenient. Near impossible to counterfeit and no money to print.

Re:Nope. (5, Funny)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567618)

You know, I think this is the first time I've ever been glad that America is over-run by fundamentalist Christians...

Re:Nope. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567667)

I don't like the idea of something in my body being money
I quite like how money my body is. Ooh, baby, yeah.

Christians rejoice! (was: Nope.) (4, Insightful)

thule (9041) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567685)

I'm a Christian, and I say bring it on! A Christian shouldn't have anything to fear! Any "body mark" that could be a *requirement* for global commerce just means that the Bible's predictions are right and the Christian can rejoice that the end is near. Yay!

Again, why should I be afraid???

Just to be clear though, I'm not saying *I'm* going to *sign-up* for one.

1st Generation Device (3, Funny)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567558)

These devices used to be so big even goatse had trouble implanting one!

Why not put the chip in a watch? (1)

SpaceRook (630389) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567559)

Why not just put it in a watch or something?

Re:Why not put the chip in a watch? (1)

floydigus (415917) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567608)

Because then someone can steal your watch. Granted, this would actually be better than having someone steal your finger.

Almost being done (1)

upside (574799) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567619)

Nokia is doing trials with North European bank Nordea involving using an RFID tag embedded in a mobile phone cover for payment.

Re:Why not put the chip in a watch? (1)

jglien (79137) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567688)

I remember reading about Swatch doing just this in a trial for Swiss transportation payment.

Don't know if it was rolled out further tho..

Faraday Shielding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567724)

Put it in a ring watch or other jewelry and have an easy way to faraday shield the chip built in to the peice and I'll think about it.

Religion (2, Funny)

Psiren (6145) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567560)

Why is it that religion really brings out the nutcases. I hope that I can get one, just so I can wind the poor confused bastards up. What better way to spend a Saturday afternoon? ;)

Religion and Belief (2, Interesting)

handy_vandal (606174) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567591)

Why is it that religion really brings out the nutcases.

Because religion is about belief; and being a nutcase is about deranged belief.

This is not to say that all religious belief is deranged; far from it. But nutcase belief often has something in common with religion. If I hear voices in my head, is it because of my deranged brain chemistry? Or because God is speaking to me? (Answer: God only knows.)

-kgj

Re:Religion (1)

BeProf (597697) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567726)

First of all, not all religious people are "nutcases". I, for one, am an evangelical christian and am quite sane, I assure you. I know of no formal studies on the relative level of mental illness in religious vs. non-religious people, but based on my own observations, I'd bet the numbers would come out pretty much the same accross the board.

Second, evangelical Christians are not in agreement on the details of eschatology (the theology of the end times). Many evangelicals do fall into the pre-trib/pre-millenial (i.e. "Left Behind") camp that may be troubled by something like this, but many evangelicals, esp. those of the Reformed persuasion have either no strong position, are post-millenialists, or are amillenialists.

Third of all, why exactly would you take joy in "winding the poor confused bastards up"? If it's their choise not to use this technology, why does that bother you? Do you sit up at night thinking up ways to piss off the Amish? Do you yearn for the next time you can have a cheesburger or eat ham in front of an observant Jew?

I would never begrudge you your right to say and do whatever you want whenever you want, but I will simply ask that you think about what you're doing and try to show at least a modicum of respect to those who may not believe what you believe.

creators' newclear power to replace phonIE monIE? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567565)

eyecon0meter: more glorious 'victories' scheduled (Score:-1, Flamebait)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26, @07:13AM (#7567339 [slashdot.org] ) after seeing the geezers take it in the .asp, again, also, we're on full gag re: the 'news' of the eXPoneNTshill 'rise' in the previously bulleaved comatose ?pr ?firm? scriptdead fairytail economIE/stock markup fraud execrable bullshipping industrIE. readings are mildly skewed due to excess bs eye gas.

lookout bullow. the real news doesn't match, again.

for each of the creators' innocents harmed, there is a badtoll that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the aforementioned perpetraitors of the life0cide against the planet/population will not be available to make reparations, as the big flash is already underway.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators.... as the lights continue to come up, we'll all be able to 'see' a little better? [ Reply to This [slashdot.org] ]

FOR THE SAKE OF homosexuals EVERYWHERE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567713)

is there a name for this type of trolling?

Credit Limit (4, Funny)

PowerBert (265553) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567566)

I hope I don't go over my credit limit again, I don't want the bayliffs coming around and cutting ou t my credit tag.

And anther thing, how will will I show off my gold chip? Bye bye prestige ;-( Maybe I can get a gold/platinum mark on my forehead????

Re:Credit Limit (1)

isorox (205688) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567622)

Maybe I can get a gold/platinum mark on my forehead

Jaffa, Kree!

We're all dooooomed (4, Insightful)

kinnell (607819) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567571)

But seriously, who is going to want a microchip embedded in their body just for paying for stuff. Apart from the odd wierdo, most people get completely creeped out by this kind of thing. There will not be a market for this, and unless some sinister government thinks for soome reason that it's worth forcing its citizens to use this technology it's just not going to happen, because nobody will use it voluntarily. I'm sure there are serious uses for this kind of technology, but payment systems just aren't one of them.

But.... (1)

mormop (415983) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567652)

If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear citizen...

MUHAhahahahahahahahahaha.......

Re:We're all dooooomed (1)

Anztac (322182) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567734)

But seriously, who is going to want a microchip embedded in their body just for paying for stuff. Apart from the odd wierdo, most people get completely creeped out by this kind of thing.
And some people dream about it. Neat Stephenson had this technology in Diamond Age, except it was implanted into the hip, and used nanotech. Even if this particular tech wasn't that important, body augmentation was a serious part of the society in that book. Perhaps this is just the beginning of a trend towards that kind of future?

People won't adapt it (1)

quigonn (80360) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567572)

I don't think that people would adapt this. I extremely cash, because I can clearly see how much money I still have. When having the money "for real", I can somehow relate to it - it's touchable, countable, more than just a number on a display.

Electronic money - in whatever way, be it RFID tags or credit cards - just doesn't give me the same feeling.

The way I feel about money is also the way of many people that I know. So, what I have observed, people are generally quite conservative when it's about money, and so I don't think that RFID tags will be accepted as replacement for cash by the customers.

Re:People won't adapt it (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567631)

Your observations do not tally with mine. I carry as little cash as possible. Because the greedy banks charge shops so much for card use, I still need cash for transactions under 5 GBP, and I resent this, because it's damn inconvenient.

I still probably wouldn't be at the front of the queue for an implant, because that just feels too invasive, and I simply don't see what advantage it brings over a normal card. But electronic money is definitely the way forward.

Re:People won't adapt it (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567663)

That works for this generation, but what about the next one where it will be the in thing to be chipped, and they are conditioned to accept it. My parents wont use an bank machine for anything other than withdrawing cash, but I don't even think twice about doing all my bank transactions through it.

hmmm... it must be good... (2, Funny)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567573)

if the Christian fundamentalists hate it...

well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567629)

I'm not sure which is more disturbing implanted RFID or agreeing with people whose best explination for the dinosaurs is some supposed reference to 'bohemoths'.

Re:hmmm... it must be good... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567634)

> if the Christian fundamentalists hate it...

They've yet to come to terms with fossils and gravity, so i'd give them a few centuries to get their puny, larval brains around anything to do with computers. In the UK the Church Of England refused to use the service Demon, because of the name! What a bunch of fuckwits!

I think the Romans had the right idea.

I'm not sure which is worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567695)

The fact that Christian fundamentalists hate it or that I agree with them in this case *shutter*.

Mark of the SOMEthing... (3, Interesting)

ddilling (82850) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567574)

I don't know about any "Mark of the Beast" but having a chip that anyone can track, that I can't just set down? Um, yeah. Uncomfortable with that. I think my personal habits are well enough documented by shadowy figures I am unaware of already, thankyouverymuch.

(Yes, Disney, Best Buy, etc. count as shadowy. Don't you agree?)

Fucking fag (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567588)

(Yes, Disney, Best Buy, etc. count as shadowy. Don't you agree?)

No I don't agree, you paranoid, delusional, sick motherfucker. How about I shove my Best Buy-purchased copy of Little Nemo up your ass, you faggot asshole?

So you work in the Disney section of Best Buy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567645)

Or is it the Best Buy at Disney?

Re:Mark of the SOMEthing... (1)

isorox (205688) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567644)

Yes, Disney, Best Buy, etc. count as shadowy. Don't you agree?

No, they openly screw you in the ass, nothign shadowy about that

Been there... (4, Funny)

phillymjs (234426) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567583)

...done that. [imdb.com]

Lenina Huxley: That is correct, money is out-moded. All transactions are through code.
John Spartan: Alright, so he can't buy food or a place to stay for the night. And, it would be a waste of time to mug somebody. Unless he rips off somebody's hand, and let's hope he doesn't figure that one out.

~Philly

So what would stop... (2, Insightful)

Channard (693317) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567586)

.. transmitting a false signal and charging the goods to someone else? Or even nastier, finding someone with money to burn, kidnapping and or killing them and removing the chip? There'd have to be some sort of security mechanism for the chip to make sure the user was still alive.

And people actually agreeing to have these things in them? These may work some day, but I can't see them actually being in common use at any point. One to put in the same file as flying cars and pill-food

...er, well, the usual things, dumbass (1)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567620)

>Or even nastier, finding someone with money to burn, kidnapping and or killing them and removing the chip

if you're prepared to injure or kill to steal money, then guess what? YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT RIGHT NOW!!!!

One very important difference (5, Insightful)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567674)

Right now, if a mugger wants my wallet he can just take it instead of having to carve it out of my body.

It's the same as unremovable transmitter bands for children -- ie a horrible idea. If you're dealing with someone who is willing to kill or maim you to get money, the last thing you want to do is give them a reason to have to do it.

This is common sense.

Re:One very important difference (1)

rokzy (687636) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567730)

yes, because there isn't going to be any method of you reporting the chip stolen, or the chip being declined once your dead body is discovered is there?

I guess we should all leave our possessions outside our houses and the car keys in the ignition. If you're dealing with someone who is willing to risk gong to jail just for some material items, you don't want to give them a reason to come into your house and put your family at risk do you?

Re:...er, well, the usual things, dumbass (1)

davetrainer (587868) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567725)

guess what? YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT RIGHT NOW!!!!

Yes, but now the most enterprising criminals among us have the ability to glance at a crowded city block and immediately pick out the person carrying the most cash.

Mark of the Beast! (1)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567589)

For once I agree with the fundamentalist Christians. Cranial credit card implants? What next... usb hard drives in finger tips, infrared laser eye lense replacements, 5.1 audio augmentations, keyboard tattoed onto left forearm, plug-and-play genitals,...

All this mucking about with technology has got to stop, and I for one have started a new web site (easy payments via cranial credit cards accepted) to distribute a new "down with technology" flash cartoon.

Uhm. WTF are those people smoking, and can I have some, please?

Re:Mark of the Beast! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567639)

My genitals are already plug and play, thanks.

Plug and play genitals? (1)

rickthewizkid (536429) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567658)

Sounds good to me! As long as it works better than the "plug and play" in Windows 95! :)

Just my gives-a-new-meaning-to-plug-and-play's worth...
-RickTheWizKid

Some Good Advice (1, Funny)

HedRat (613308) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567600)

The talk about having a surgical RFID implant reminds me of some quasi-related advice I'd like to pass along. Don't EVER take your wife along when you see the doctor for a physical.

Doctor: I'm going to need some blood, a urine and stool sample and I'll need some sperm.

Me: Ummmm, okay.

Wife: Why don't you just give him your underwear?

From Revelation Chapter 13: (5, Informative)

GR|MLOCK (203716) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567601)

16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18: Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Now why on earth would we worry. Strange that the text actually says in the hand or forehead, not on. I wish I could read the originals as they were written...

Lets all jump on the RFID wagon its sooo in (2, Insightful)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567607)

Why does everyone and their dog suddenly think RFID is the new sliced bread? Just because its new and it does something semi cool doesnt mean its suitable for every application. With this for example its totally unsuitable! Not only is your fucking credit card number or its alternative availiable for anyone in range to scan, but now you have a bloody tracking device attached to you hand. Where-ever you go and what ever you do, if your in range of a scanner then someones got you and yes they will pretty quickly tie that innocent number to your name - "hey bob, can you help me with this box" - afew seconds later bob's hand has been scanned from inside the box and his number is sold on the black market tied to his name and address. This is the stupidest thing ive seen in years, at the very least it must be controllable so you can disable it at will.

Implanted RFID chip?... (4, Funny)

N Monkey (313423) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567609)

... That'd bring a whole new meaning to "paying an arm and a leg" for something.

Can you imagine being robbed?!!!!

I'm sorry it has to be said (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567610)

I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed, or numbered... my life is my own.

Hmmm... (2, Funny)

salzbrot (314893) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567611)

That sounds interesting.

It will probably make shoplifting impossible, combined with RFIDs on the products that could be stolen. The shoplifter sneaks out the store and hears a friendly spoken "Thank you for shopping with K-Mart!" message. D'oh!

I will go now and try to get one of the readers for those implanted RFIDs. Then I will place it on a busy street and bill every person only $9.99 that passes by to close to the reader ;-)

Oh great.... potential monopoly here... (1)

Bvardi (620485) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567613)

Does this mean when I get mugged they'll be taking body parts? :) Or that instead of people using the excuse "I left my wallet at home, can you cover the bill for me?" they'll be saying "I just had a really good loofah, can you cover the bill for me?"

It makes me a litle nervous - not quite for the privacy concerns many of the traditional tinfoil hat crowd will be worried about (which are not entirely non-valid concerns, but I don't see them as being quite as bad as they are often made out to be.) This concerns me because of the rise in things such as ATM and banking fees (Most major banks here in Canada recently started charging extra fees for using anything but their ATMS, and yanked their ATMs out of the convenience stores - conveniently leaving rebranded identical machines with a new no-name company listed on them in at least a few cases I can think of)

When you are RFID'd and if they manage to essentially change the monetary base to an electronic one, will this provide them with a monopoly (the banks) and allow them to raise service fees for electronic transactions - since you will not effectively have any other recourse?

Of course on the other hand - with rampant counterfeiting - this may be less of a choice and more of a necessity to move away from physical paper money that is relatively easily forged to a secure electronic transactional system.

Well, unless it's made by Diebold anyways.

Oblig. Simpsons Ref. (1)

handy_vandal (606174) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567614)

But one thing is certain: the RF-ID chips will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new subdermal overlords ... and I'd like to remind them that as a fat person with lots of surface area, I can be helpful in persuading others to get the implants and toil in their underground shopping malls ....

You should see the hate-mail ADS gets (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567617)

My wife used to work there. All this embedded-RFID stuff they are doing (this isn't their first attempt) really gets the loonies worked up. And a lot of the staff is pretty creeped out by it, too, truthfully. The sad part is they ditched several PROFITABLE lines of business to pursue this RFID stuff full-time. The only thing that has been paying off is embedded ID's for pets, and even that isn't doing so hot.

New Meaning (2, Funny)

JackJudge (679488) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567623)

I guess it gives new meaning to the phrase, "It cost me an arm and a leg".

The social implications make this non-feasible.. (4, Insightful)

StressGuy (472374) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567627)

This elimiates the anonymous purchase. No more slinking into the adult bookstore for that copy of "Wendy the Whip" Quarterly (or whatever) that is purchased with cash so it doesn't show up on your bank statement for your wife to see.
.
Seriously though, if you have absolute access to how someone spends their money, you essentially know everything about them. It becomes an extreme invasion of privacy making the technological hurdles somewhat minor in comparison to the social and political hurdles.
.
Regarding the mark of the beast; given that this is an implantable device, I can't help but find it interesting that the "number of the beast" is also the Unix mode number for universal device access. Don't know if that means anything, but it is an interesting coincidence.
.

Anything that pisses off Christians... (1)

VaxRat (585448) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567647)

is good enough for me.

Gives Identity Theft New Meaning (1)

syntap (242090) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567649)

After all the thieves and hax0rs warRFID'ing in the mall, manufacturing new RFIDs and running up my credit with black market tags, my arm will look like swiss cheese from all the replacements.

Ridiculous pipe dream.. (4, Insightful)

k98sven (324383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567659)

Just another example of people who think that just because something is technically possible and perhaps even practical in some cases, that is somehow automatically considered desireable.

Most people don't want this. Not now, probably not ever.

Credit cards have been around a long time too.. now wouldn't it be practical not to have to lug that heavy card around?

Why not have credit card numbers tattooed onto the card holder? That's been technically possible for a long time, and it could also be practical in some cases.

Would anyone suggest this? Why not? Same reasons.

Fabled? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567660)

Isn't referring to the Bible as a fable in a /. story just trolling the Christians?

Why? Why?? (4, Interesting)

Maradine (194191) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567664)

Why do fundamentalist Christians have a problem with this? Every time one of the prophetic things come to pass, they're like, "my god, the number of the beast! Satan is among us! You cannot do this!!"

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Know Your Religion! Guess what guys? The New World Order and the anti-christ's coming are a bloody prerequisite for your savior's return. Remember that bible thing?

You guys should be cheering this stuff on.

I'm conflicted.... (0, Flamebait)

phillymjs (234426) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567669)

I'm a firm believer that anything that sends those fucking Bible-thumping loonies into a tizzy is a good thing.

But I'm not crazy about the idea of being lojacked, because I can see the good old U.S. Government abusing such technology-- like making RFID implants mandatory for everyone, and sprinkling RFID readers all over the place, in every doorway, parking meter, fire hydrant, and other such everyday objects that people see so often they no longer even notice them.

~Philly

High Tech crime *rejoice* !!! (1)

curtisk (191737) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567672)

....but RFID-enabled humans are bit harder to tamper with.

Ummmmm.....yeah, REAL hard for traditional thieves if you don't have a knife

And how long until they can stand in a theatre lobby, say, with a handheld scanner, screening for the "high-rollers", ready to call upon the aforementioned thugs to roll the targets for their tags? No more guessing how much money is in the targets wallet, only go for the sure-bets

If I was to ever get one of those... (1)

Stile 65 (722451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567673)

...it would have to use Chaumian digital cash. Anonymous, untraceable.

I'd still be worried about muggers in the city cutting off my hand.

In Soviet US, thief cut hand off YOU!

Simple Solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567676)

If someone tries implanting a chip under your skin, cut off that body part.

Reese, Sgt. Tech-Com BN38416 (0)

Metryq (716104) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567677)

While watching THE TERMINATOR my brother was joking about Reese passing his arm over the UPC scanner in a supermarket...

"Can I get a price check on one soldier?"

Why is it ok (1)

howlinmonkey (548055) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567680)

to bash "fundamentalist Christians"? If anyone made these same sorts of remarks about Buddhists lighting themselves on fire because of their beliefs, they certainly wouldn't be modded as +1 funny.

I know there are certain assumptions made about people branded with that title, but understand that there are PhD's in EE, CompSci, and other disciplines who are fundamentalists.

Do you even know what it means to be fundamentalist? Or do you just look at the nutcases and make assumptions about everyone under that label. You know, like "Boy that (race) guy sure went nuts. You really have to watch out for those (race) people".

It is politically, and ethically, incorrect to do this with race, it ought to be just as incorrect to do it with any religion.

Yeah yeah yeah... (4, Funny)

Alsee (515537) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567681)

I could rant about how stupid these things are, about all the security holes in the system, about all of the abuses, about the violation of rights, and on and on and on. Instead I'd just like to say that if it does somehow get rammed down our throats then I want chip number 666! Thankyou.

-

Dedication is a virtue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567682)


"...sufficiently dedicated thieves may try to slice the tags out of their victims."

Implications for Muggings? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567686)

1) So instead of stealing your wallet, a mugger will now cut off your arm?

2) Solves all those problems with the police tracking people.

3) The next step will be to require all aeroplane passengers to be chipped.

4) Isn't this the ultimate form of slavery to money?

Those wacky Xtians... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7567708)

Those wacky polytheistic idol-worshipping Xtians (full disclosure: I'm Jewish) also believed that barcodes were the mark of the beast. (I guess the "beast" is one of their many, many false gods.) Here is one of many references [av1611.org] about what xtians think UPC codes are.

Countermeasures (2, Interesting)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567715)

Assuming these things are adopted, I see a few countermeasures to avoid being "read" by scammers or govt officials.

1. tin foil armband over the device to block reception/transmission of RFID bits.

2. removable bracelet with multiple dummy chips that confuses scanners with too many hits.

3. Scanner detector device that beeps when an RFID reader is in the neighborhood.

What I like about cash (1)

jeddak (12628) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567719)

is that if I'm mugged, it's at the mugger's discretion whether to let me walk away in one piece.

If this RFID thing were to replace cash, I'd have to worry about being cut up or killed, as the thief attempts to retrieve the tag, or kidnapped and coerced into paying for stuff.

To sum it up: with RFID, when the fool and his money are parted, so too are several of his fingers.

reruns (1)

Pompatus (642396) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567721)

I've seen this one before. Except RFID tags were replaced by blue numeric tatoos, the picture was black and white, and the narration was in German.

Tar and Feathers is too good for them... (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567729)

You don't have to be a Fundamentalist Christian to want to string up anyone who advocates the implantation of these devices in human beings.

The danger is that they will be "voluntary", as in you don't have to have the chip, unless you want privileges like the freedom to travel, medical care, a bank account, a driver's license and a job.

What's Wrong With Cash? (2, Insightful)

bfg9000 (726447) | more than 10 years ago | (#7567735)

I mean, really -- what's wrong with cash? Coins and bills have been around for a long long time, and have worked fine. Why tamper with a system that works? The systems not perfect, but it's not like I'm willing to give up my privacy and get chip implants because I can't sleep at night worrying about counterfeiters.

This is a non-issue, except that some desperate penny stock NEEDS to make it an issue in order to stay alive. I'll stick with cash, thankyouverymuch.
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