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New IE Holes Discovered

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the yes-even-more dept.

Internet Explorer 801

joelt49 writes "Yahoo! News is reporting that 7 new security holes for Internet Explorer have been discovered by a Chinese researcher; however, there apparantly aren't any attacks on IE yet." The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list. Sure, a lot of people don't like Microsoft, but that's no reason to make it worse for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products, especially for security holes which have yet to be exploited.

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801 comments

FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7586994)

firts post

Re:FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587013)

omg sweetie wtf omg ftp lolz omg!#11@!1!121! ! go pats!

Incident response times (5, Insightful)

Tet (2721) | more than 10 years ago | (#7586997)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list.

Yep, not ideal. But it'll be interesting to see whether MS's claims of having a faster response time to security incidents that the Linux community stands up. Will they have a patch available withing the next day or so? You can guarantee that the Mozilla or Konqueror communities would have in the same circumstances...

Re:Incident response times (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587073)

You can guarantee that the Mozilla or Konqueror communities would have in the same circumstances...

And would the Mozilla and Konqueror communities fully regression test their changes against all of the various software it might affect.. no.

Re:Incident response times (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587096)

Mod this up! The community is not QA - no matter how much the FSF would like us to believe.

All the big names (yes, even Microsoft) spend a boatload of money making sure Joe User can actually use their software. The FSF folk don't have this because:

a) They *never* write flawed code. ;-)
b) Their utilities are so cryptic that no one in their right mind would want to use them.

Re:Incident response times (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587122)

All the big names (yes, even Microsoft) spend a boatload of money making sure Joe User can actually use their software.

But only their software in the newest release. Third party software and older releases (you have to upgrade, loser!) will break regularly with service packs. Because they have a great QA, I'm sure this isn't intentional.

Re:Incident response times (5, Informative)

Troed (102527) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587103)

Neither does Microsoft, as shown several times when their updates causes 3rd software to break - even in areas the patch wasn't supposed to touch.

Feel free to Google.

Re:Incident response times (5, Insightful)

Chexsum (583832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587108)

Itd be really strange if Mozilla broke my Window Manager or something. What exactly would they need to test it with?

I can understand Internet Explorer needing to be tested against the rest of Windows and its APIs but Mozilla is a stand-alone web browser - as long as the API isnt affected it ['full regression testing'] shouldnt matter too much IMO.

Re:Incident response times (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587137)

And would the Mozilla and Konqueror communities fully regression test their changes against all of the various software it might affect.. no.

You bastards! My various exploits stopped working because of your changes!

it wouldn't change anything (5, Insightful)

whysanity (231556) | more than 10 years ago | (#7586998)

I don't blame this guy for not going to Microsoft first. Given thier track record, more than likely, they would have ignored him until someone publicly announced the problems.

P.S. Is it news anymore that IE has holes?

Re:it wouldn't change anything (1, Troll)

GCBirzan (727535) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587058)

He should have at least try to go down that route. My guess is he wanted his five minutes in the spotlight so he decided to make it public instead of sending them to Microsoft.

It's hardly bad... (5, Insightful)

shfted! (600189) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587003)

Sure, a lot of people don't like Microsoft, but that's no reason to make it worse for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products, especially for security holes which have yet to be exploited.

If OSS people can fix the bugs in less than half a day, it should be a piece of cake for a giant software company with lots of programmers to do the same. Sure, a days warning would have been nice, but if there isn't a fix by tonight, it only shows badly on Microsoft.

Re:It's hardly bad... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587109)

People like you make me sick.

The OSS people throw out barely tested fixes - they have no qualms about doing so because "the community is watching over me, and everything will be ok."

Real programmers don't do that - they spend time on a fix. Make sure the bad case doesn't happen. They make sure no other functionality broke as a result. It goes through other developers, quality assurance folk, and scenario based testing to make sure that everything, I mean EVERYTHING, is as good as or better than before.

Just because some fly-by-night hack can whip something up in a few hours doesn't mean its good.

New Rival to Internet Explorer... (5, Funny)

xirtam_work (560625) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587005)

Microsoft are about to announce a replacement for Internet Explorer called 'MS String Vest'.

A spokesman was quoted as saying, "It's the only way we can release a product with more holes than IE".

It is unconfirmed if StringVest will be integrated into Windows XP SP2 or if we will have to wait until LongHorn is released.

I've been trying my best to switch people away (5, Interesting)

The Analog Kid (565327) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587007)

...from IE. I tell people about the built-in pop-up blocker, and the adaptive spam filter in Mozilla. I also tell people about the nice long list of IE vulnerablities like the ones in this article, I've gotten quite a few to switch away from IE, to either Mozilla, Mozilla Firebird, or Opera. It's all about using the big words when you persuade them to switch.

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (1)

gazbo (517111) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587065)

Quite a valid set of points. When I choose a web browser, I absolutely ensure it has an adaptive spam filter.

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (1)

Heartz (562803) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587081)

It's all about using the big words when you persuade them to switch.

I disagree. From my experience, using big words usually just overwhelmes joe user. Give it to them straight up and tell the the truth in the simplest possible manner usually works best for me.

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (4, Insightful)

Chalybeous (728116) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587082)

I use Mozilla Firebird [mozilla.org], myself, and like you, I've tried to encourage my friends to switch.
Doesn't help much when I'm forced to use a university workstation (like today), but I find it's a better quality browser than IE. Renders faster, blocks pop-ups, and I find tabbed browsing to be pretty much invaluable.
Of course, the best thing about Firebird is, I can still watch Doctor Who: Scream of the Shalka [bbc.co.uk] ;-)

There are, of course, some times when you have to use IE (like Windows Update, though I guess I could always just download each update manually).

The big problem I've hit is that, even with all these MSIE vulnerabilities that come out on a near-weekly basis - not to mention annoying pop-ups and pop-unders, and other little security-related issues - I don't seem to have any success.
So what's your persuasive technique for getting people onto pre-1.0, non-MS, reliable-but-not-100%-complete software?

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (1)

Salsaman (141471) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587094)

Mozilla is post 1.0 (has been for 2+ years IIRC). Insofar as that is a measure of 'completeness', mozilla is complete.

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (1)

Chalybeous (728116) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587120)

Mozilla itself (the integrated suite) is. I was referring to Mozilla Firebird, the new web browser, which I think is currently at 0.7.
Though I do agree, the original Mozilla suite is complete (and very nice, fully functional etc.). Strangely, people are still reluctant to touch it. Do you think I should give them a ten foot barge pole? :-P

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (-1, Offtopic)

Alsee (515537) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587124)

It's all about using the big words when you persuade them to switch.

Yes, I've had excellect luck with supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

When those fail I whip out:
Methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylser ylleuc ylphenylalanylalanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamyla rginyllysylglutamylglysylalanylphenylalanylvalylpr olylphenylalanylyalylthreonylleucylglcycylaspartyl prolylglicylisoleucyglutamylglutaminlserylleucylly sylisoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamy lalanylglyclyalanylaspartylalanylleucyglutamylleuc ylgluycylisoleucylproluylphenylalanyserylaspartypr olylleucelalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonylisolle ucyglutaminylasparaginylalanythreonylleucylarginyl alanylphenylalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylp rolylalanylglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanylglglutam ylmethionylleucyalanylleucylisoleucylarginylglutam inyllysylhistidylprolyuthreonylisoleucylprolylisol eucylglycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasbar aginylleucylvalylphenylalanylsparaginyyllysylglycy lisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalanylyltyrosylala nylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylvaly lspartylserylvalylleucylvallalanylaspartylvalylpro lylvalvlglutaminylglutamylserylalanylprolylphenyla lalrginylglutaminylalanylalanylleucylarginylhistid ylasparaginylvalylalalprolylisoleucylphenylalanyli soleucylcysteinylprolyprolylaspartylalanylaspartyl aspartyspartyleucylleucylarginylglutaminylisoleucy lalanylseryltyroslglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreon yltyrosylleucylleucylserylarginlalanylglycylvalylt hreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparaginylarginylanyla lanylleucylprolylleucylaspaaginylhistidylleucylval ylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparagimyl alanylalanyprolylprolylleucylglutaminylglycylphenl alanylglycylisoleyucylserylalanylprolylaspartylglu taminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisoleucylalspartylala nylglycylalanylalanylglycylalanylasoleucylserylgly cylserylalanylisoleucylbalyllysylisoleucylisoleucy lglutamylglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisoleucylglu tamylpronylglutamyllysylmethionylluecylalanylalany oeucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutamilylprolylm ethionyllysylalanylalanylthreonylarginylserine.

-

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587126)

If Mozilla is so good, why did they waste so much time building useless crap, like XUL? Its not a browser, its a widget set! And an IRC client! And mail client! And a HTML composer! And a desert topping!

The fact that the Mozilla foundation wasted so much time building useless components is further proof that Open Source stuff has no plan, no structure, and no management.

Re:I've been trying my best to switch people away (2, Insightful)

quandrum (652868) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587146)

how does an adaptive spam-filter affect web browsing?

I don't think intellectual dishonesty is the right way to get people to switch.

blablabla (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587008)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list.

Believe me, in these days that is the only way to report bugs AND making sure they'll get fixed.

Dream world scenario:

1) Report bug to company
2) Company will announce the bug to the public
3) Company will fix the bug as soon as possible

Real World scenario 1:

1) Report bug to company
2) They don't report it to the public and they don't fix it
3) You report it to the public
4) Company sues you for IP violation or any other shit they can pull out of their asses

Real World scenario 2:

1) Report it to the public (anonymously).
2) Company will fix it

Re:blablabla (1)

HeghmoH (13204) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587057)

Real World scenario 3 (for those too paranoid to try 1, and too nice to try 2):

1) Report it to the company (anonymously).
2) See if they fix it.
3) If they don't fix it within X days, report it to the public (anonymously).

Real World Scenario #1 example (1)

1ucius (697592) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587101)

It sounds like GameSpy backed down eventually, but here is senario #1 from early November . . .

>chowbok writes "Luigi Auriemma has found several
>security holes GameSpy software over the past few
>months. He has reported them all to GameSpy but
>never got a response... until today, when he got
>a threatening letter from their lawyers. It says
>he's violating the DMCA, he needs to
>cease-and-desist, yadda yadda yadda." Update:
>11/12 21:09 GMT by S: GameSpy has now posted an >official response from the company's
>founder, Mark Surfas.

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/12/ 17 35212&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=127&tid=153&tid=172& tid=186&tid=99

apparantly? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587009)

pleaes laern hwo ot spell

holes found in IE (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587010)

not news, this happens every day.

good news would be like.. goatse.cx and tubgirl.com went down and trolls no longer could shove a hairy fat ass dick up my ass before i go to bed and rub one off.

Immediate full disclosure is best security practic (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587011)

Seriously - AS SOON AS THERE IS A VULNERABILITY, I, as a sysadmin, want to know about it. I don't give a flying fuck about Microsoft's reputation, or whether "vendors need time to patch the hole" - while there is a known hole, I DON'T WANT MY FUCKING SYSTEM ONLINE. If a nice guy can discover it, the bad guys probably already have.

The "give us time to fix the hole/do a P.R. coverup" fiasco is WHY I DON'T USE MICROSOFT SOFTWARE ANYMORE.

Re:Immediate full disclosure is best security prac (1)

GCBirzan (727535) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587097)

That's daft, to say the least. The vulnerability was there, wether you knew about it or not.
If he would've reported it to the vendor (in this case Microsoft), it wouldn't have been 'a known hole', but to the Microsoft developers. They would've came up with a patch and you could've spared your company the trouble of explaining why they had to take down their webserver for half a day, while a patch was developed/tested.
As for 'why I don't use Microsoft software anymore', that's also stupid. You think other companies don't face these kinds of problems?

Re:Immediate full disclosure is best security prac (4, Insightful)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587113)

it wouldn't have been 'a known hole', but to the Microsoft developers

Prove it. Anything that can be found by a white/gray hat can be found or was already found by a black hat.

Re:Immediate full disclosure is best security prac (1)

GCBirzan (727535) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587152)

If you want absolute security, please lock your machine in a vault, throw it in the ocean and it'll probably be safe.
What are the chances of it being exploited in the $time it takes developers to come up with a patch, by this black hat who knows about the bug, but didn't exploit it before the bug was reported?

Re:Immediate full disclosure is best security prac (1)

jaavaaguru (261551) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587115)

I agree with this. If there is a problem that's going to compromise my security, I'd like to know about it ASAP so I can (temporarily) stop using the software that's causing the problem, and switch to an alternative application.

Topic was briefly discussed at NTBugTraq (5, Informative)

Lieutenant_Dan (583843) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587015)

Russ Cooper made some good points [ntbugtraq.com].

I think MS has the responsibility to address their customers concerns immediatelly (naive, I know), especially IE's overly close integration with the OS which causes most of these exploits.

Addendum (4, Informative)

Lieutenant_Dan (583843) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587043)

I like this release [secunia.com].

Disable Active Scripting and find an alternative to IE ("use another product"). Not very realistic unfortunately, when companies have invested so much in integrating (and accepting) some of the flawed functionality in IE.

I do find that people are starting to be a lot more receptive towards MS-alternatives, especially when the mass media is now jumping on the bandwagon as well. Now techies find themselves explaining their choice of MS over and over again, to hype-induced managers.

Nigger Owner's Manual (GPL) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587016)

Just bought your first nigger? New to nigger ownership? Not sure what to feed your nigger, how to cage your nigger, nor how often to bullwhip your nigger? Then YOU'RE IN LUCK , because the answers to these questions and many more can be found in the one and only...

*** Official AFN Nigger Owner's Manual ***


Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your nigger will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.

INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately on unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape.

At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.

CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER. Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say anyway.

Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of white women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat.

HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers.

You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put.

Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.

FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and waddymelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc.

Experienced nigger owners sometimes push waddymelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free waddymelon for his niggers as a result.

You should *never* allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton. You really would. Coffee beans? Don't ask. You have no idea.

MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind. The nigger's most prominent anatomical feature is, after all, its oversized buttocks, which have evolved to make it more comfortable for your nigger to sit around all day doing nothing for its entire life. Niggers are often good runners, too, to enable them to sprint quickly in the opposite direction if they see work heading their way.

The solution to this is to *dupe* your nigger into working. After installation, encourage it towards the cotton field with blows of a wooden club, fence post, baseball bat, etc., and then tell it that all that cotton belongs to a white man, who won't be back until tomorrow. Your nigger will then frantically compete with the other field niggers to steal as much of that cotton as it can before the white man returns. At the end of the day, return your nigger to its cage and laugh at its stupidity, then repeat the same trick every day indefinitely. Your nigger comes equipped with the standard nigger IQ of 75 and a memory to match, so it will forget this trick overnight.

Niggers can start work at around 5am. You should then return to bed and come back at around 10am. Your niggers can then work through until around 10pm or whenever the light fades.

ENTERTAINING YOUR NIGGER. Your nigger enjoys play, like most animals, so you should play with it regularly. A happy smiling nigger works best. Games niggers enjoy include:

1) A good thrashing: every few days, take your nigger's pants down, hang it up by its heels, and have some of your other niggers thrash it with a club or whip. Your nigger will signal its intense enjoyment by shrieking and sobbing.

2) Lynch the nigger: niggers are cheap and there are millions more where yours came from. So every now and then, push the boat out a bit and lynch a nigger. Lynchings are best done with a rope over the branch of a tree, and niggers just love to be lynched. It makes them feel special. Make your other niggers watch. They'll be so grateful, they'll work harder for a day or two (and then you can lynch another one).

3) Nigger dragging: Tie your nigger by one wrist to the tow bar on the back of suitable vehicle, then drive away at approximately 50mph. Your nigger's shrieks of enjoyment will be heard for miles. It will shriek until it falls apart. To prolong the fun for the nigger, do *NOT* drag him by his feet, as his head comes off too soon. This is painless for the nigger, but spoils the fun. Always wear a seatbelt and never exceed the speed limit.

4) Playing on the PNL: a variation on (2), except you can lynch your nigger out in the fields, thus saving work time. Niggers enjoy this game best if the PNL is operated by a man in a tall white hood.

5) Hunt the nigger: a variation of Hunt the Slipper, but played outdoors, with Dobermans. WARNING: do not let your Dobermans bite a nigger, as they are highly toxic.

DISPOSAL OF DEAD NIGGERS. Niggers die on average at around 40, which some might say is 40 years too late, but there you go. Most people prefer their niggers dead, in fact. When yours dies, report the license number of the car that did the drive-by shooting of your nigger. The police will collect the nigger and dispose of it for you.

COMMON PROBLEMS WITH NIGGERS:


MY NIGGER IS VERY AGGRESSIVE.
Have it put down, for god's sake. Who needs an uppity nigger? What are we, short of niggers or something?

MY NIGGER KEEPS RAPING WHITE WOMEN, BUT NEVER BLACK HOES.
They all do this. Shorten your nigger's chain so it can't reach any white women, and arm heavily any white women who might go near it.

WILL MY NIGGER ATTACK ME?
Not unless it outnumbers you 20 to 1, and even then, it's not likely. If niggers successfully overthrew their owners they'd have to sort out their own food. This is probably why nigger uprisings were nonexistent (until some fool gave them rights).

MY NIGGER KEEPS BLEATING ABOUT ITS "RIGHTS" AND "RASSISM".
Yeah, well, it would. Tell it to shut the fuck up.

MY NIGGER'S HIDE IS A FUNNY COLOR. WHAT IS THE CORRECT SHADE FOR A NIGGER?
A nigger's skin is actually more or less transparent. That brown color you can see is the shit your nigger is full of. This is why some models of nigger are sold as "The Shitskin".

MY NIGGER ACTS EXACTLY LIKE A NIGGER, BUT IS WHITE.
What you have there is a "wigger". Rough crowd.

WOW! IS THAT LIKE AN ALBINO? ARE THEY RARE OR VALUABLE?
They're as common as dog shit and about as valuable. In fact, one of them was President between 1992 and 2000. Put your wigger in a cage with a few hundred genuine niggers and you'll soon find it stops acting like a nigger. However, leave it in the cage and let the niggers dispose of it. The best thing for any wigger is a dose of TNB.

MY NIGGER SMELLS REALLY BAD.
And you were expecting what?

MY NIGGER DISPLAYS A MASSIVE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT.
This is normal.

SHOULD I ALLOW MY NIGGER TO FORNICATE WITH OTHER NIGGERS?
Where are we, Wonderland? You'll have a lot of trouble getting it to fornicate with *other* niggers.

SHOULD I STORE MY DEAD NIGGER?
When you came in here, did you see a sign that said "Dead nigger storage"? That's because there ain't no goddamn sign.

WHERE CAN I BUY MYSELF A BETTER QUALITY OF NIGGER?
I don't really understand the question ("better quality of nigger?" WTF?) but niggers are always available for sale on alt.flame.niggers.

Umm (1)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587018)

It seems to me a number of these vulnerabilities have been posted to some popular "Unpatched IE bugs" page for weeks and weeks, so far..... this guy just combined some of them to demonstrate seriousness.

Re:Umm (1)

You're All Wrong (573825) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587147)

The Unpatched IE Vulnerabilities page which the owner
voluntarily decided to pull down as he realised that
because microsoft really doesn't give a damn about security
they couldn't even be _scared_ into fixing the holes?
(i.e. I don't think pulling down the page was because he
was bought off or otherwise persuaded by MS, I think it's
because he's realised that MS are so low that his initial
good intentions just didn't work.)

One of the points of that web-page was that the exploits
were in fact _very old_ and still hadn't been fixed. So
in some ways this story is old old news.

My favourite vulnerability was the "notepad popups" one.
Google for it. Then laugh.

YAW.

double standards (0, Insightful)

Sanity (1431) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587023)

So, a guy waits months after reporting security problems to Apple, and the /. crowd lambast him as a self-publicist, while posting rediculous (and incorrect) comments about how it isn't a bug, its a feature.

Interesting to see how people respond when its Microsoft that has been given no notice about an exploit.

I am getting sick and tired of the Apple fanboys, remember back when /. advocated use of free software? Oh for the good old days...

Re:double standards (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587135)

Mod parent up...

Its amazing the doublespeak in this "community"...

Just downloaded the IE patches (4, Interesting)

charlieafrid (654116) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587024)

I just downloaded the latest IE patches this morning and now IE wouldnt even start....its doing nothing. Time to move my bookmarks to the firebird....tonight.

Re:Just downloaded the IE patches (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587072)

there are patches available *already*. gosh, that's one in the eye for all the fanboys who've posted previously about how MS cannot get a patch out faster than the OSS community could.

Oh, but wait - you're talking crap, there aren't any yet. what a lose you are.

Re:Just downloaded the IE patches (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587078)

I just downloaded the latest IE patches this morning and now IE wouldnt even start....its doing nothing. Time to move my bookmarks to the firebird....tonight.

Nice try, the patches arent even out yet!

Either you made a deliberate attempt to trick people into using Firebird over IE, or, you hadnt updated IE in so long the older patches arent installed even.

Forced? (5, Interesting)

Call Me Black Cloud (616282) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587025)

the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products

I'm not forced to use Windows - I use it by choice. So does everyone else I know who uses Windows. As you may know, there is a viable alternative to Windows: OS X.

Oh wait, actually at my last job I was forced to use Windows. When the company purchased a new computer for me (I'm a software developer) I requested an Apple but was turned down. They didn't want to spend the money and didn't want to deal with integration on the network. I doubt the number of people being "forced" to use Windows numbers in the millions though. Besides, there was a benefit to the Windows box that the company certainly never intended - a wider variety of LAN games to play head-to-head against my office mate.

Re:Forced? (3, Informative)

haxor.dk (463614) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587087)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but:

1) There are virtually no "integration" issues between Mac OS X and Windows. OS X supportes Samba out of the box.

2) I thought most companies frowned upon games on company computers , on company time ?

Re:Forced? (5, Insightful)

MKalus (72765) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587136)

I bet you most people in Big Corporations are forced to use windows (not that they know any different).

I know I am forced to use windows at work, even though either a Mac or any Unix Desktop would do.

I ditch IE whenever I can, but for example our HR Website and anything else RELIES on Windows, no way around it.

Re:Forced? (2, Insightful)

thenextpresident (559469) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587145)

"I'm not forced to use Windows - I use it by choice. So does everyone else I know who uses Windows."

Your choice to use Windows was an illusion. Microsoft is a monopoly. It's as simple as that. When you went to buy a computer, and you walked into the little store, did you see a lot Macs, or a crap load of Windows PCs?

Just because their was another option doesn't mean Microsoft was any less of a monopoly. Consider what happened with AT&T and all the baby-bells. You didn't have to use a Phone, their were other forms of communication. Many people made a choice to use the Phone.

The problem is that you didn't choose to buy Windows. You choose to buy a computer, and had not choice buy to get Windows on it. It's only recently this is starting to change.

Yeah, right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587026)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list.

Yeah, why didn't he? They could have fixed it until the next windows release.

mom's not sucked into ie anymore (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587027)

i installed fedora core 1 on her machine on thanksgiving... everything's been great, and her p4 1.8ghz is actually behaving like a machine with that sort of speed, not the slow as poo windows she had before... she was nervous at first, but all her banking/mail stuff works just fine under mozilla.

maybe it's stuff like this that we need, and more people should get their families exposed to it...

momentum, people, momentum.

Public mailing list? (5, Insightful)

Amiga Lover (708890) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587029)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list.

Thats because Microsoft's past record is to ignore people who have contacted them privately regarding security issues, or take legal action against them.

If you really wanted something fixed by MS, and the last 15 times you'd contacted them they'd ignored you, but you've seen someone else release information into the wild and get MS's attention re: a fix within hours... WWYD?

Re:Public mailing list? (1)

Chalybeous (728116) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587107)

IMHO, it's a double-edged sword. If I found a big security hole, I could either sit on it and suffer a guilty conscience, or try to make people aware of it.
If M$ (or any other OS or software manufacturer) ignore people sending them info on new vulnerabilities, at least by putting it on a mailing list or website, you're making the public aware of the issue.

The problem is, what happens if a black-hat gets hold of the exploit before the manufacturer and does something destructive? I guess it would make the manufacturer sit up and take notice.
So really, MS (and Apple) should be grateful that there are still white-hats out there to find these holes and propagate information, even if their methods are a little unorthodox.

Mildly OT note: The first computer I ever bought was an Amiga. Nice to see someone remembers them! :-)

haha (3, Insightful)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587031)

I can understand the desire for such vulnerabilities to be fixed before going public, but Microsoft has been known to sweep exploits under the rug for as many as twelve years. Exploits are a common fact of life with Microsoft products, and its better that this exploit was released to all as an explanation than as a virus/worm.

Does this surprise anyone? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587032)

Does anyone really find this surprising, given the chinks atrocious human rights record?

I wouldn't put anything past those slanty eyed yellow devils.

As usual they dont all work (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587037)


half the exploits don't work (latest WinXP), the remote exploits doesn't , and the rest require physical local access which sort of negates security on a windows box

this isnt news
at least not to those who are on the lists who see this "hackers" postings on a regular basis

Having tried a few of these (5, Interesting)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587038)

On Windows XP.. stock up to date installation... these remote EXE exploits he posted don't seem to do anything.

Re:Having tried a few of these (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587121)

Yes, Windows XP has serious problems of backward compatibility. Try Google maybe you find a XP version.

Other than that, I can only recommend waiting. But hopefully not until longhorn, to be released when we'll be counting time in stardates...

At least he reported it to someone!!! (3, Insightful)

Seahawk91 (585715) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587044)

WE could have found out about it when our sytems started acting up.

Mozilla! (2, Insightful)

dereklam (621517) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587049)

Sure, a lot of people don't like Microsoft, but that's no reason to make it worse for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products, especially for security holes which have yet to be exploited.

I can understand complaining about being forced to use Windows. However, no one is "forced" to use Internet Explorer, even on Windows---Mozilla is a better alternative in Windows.

Most of my family and co-workers use Mozilla, and they haven't looked back.

Re:Mozilla! (1)

maximilln (654768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587100)

Many many companies have exceptionally stringent acceptable use policies for employees on company computers. Many companies over 10000 employess explicitly forbid employees from installing unapproved software on company computers. Those employees add up quickly.

One company that I'm aware of explicitly accepts ONLY MS-IE as their web browser. The company line is that the monopolous strategy is to facilitate complete network integration. In my opinion, if their IT department is that inept, they shouldn't exist in a wired world.

Personally, I hope that any company which lashes itself that tightly to MS gets beseiged by a million script kiddies. At least then the script kiddies would show a measure of usefulness.

Re:Mozilla! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587154)

However, no one is "forced" to use Internet Explorer, even on Windows---Mozilla is a better alternative in Windows.


Unless of course you're at work and they lock the desktops down because they want to prevent Viruses from coming into the network. Not to forget any licensing issues that might ensue.

So far so good, too bad though that the windows policy they set in my place is anything but waterproof.

Advanced warning on exploits (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587050)

If you want advanced warning, you should register to get the notices.

I am sure many Microsoft employees are registered to receive notice.

Register here [registerforfree.net]. It don't cost nuthin.

er... (-1, Flamebait)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587051)

This is a Chinese/communist researcher we're talking about here. What does s/he care if a bunch of capitalists lose money/sleep/etc.? I'd think that would be his goal - to contribute to the fall of the west.

Re:er... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587092)

Chinese != Communist...

Re:er... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587140)

Yeah, it just seems like communism. Really it's a democracy. I can fly.

Re:er... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587129)

I think that the fact that comments like this doesn't get moderated down as flamebait says a lot about the moderation system/people who moderate this site.

Re:er... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587131)

remember Tianaman Square???

not all Chinese are wanting to hurt America, there are a LOT of Chinese that want to live normal lives in a normal house, and raise their familys like we do here in the USA, so forget your stupid paranoia for a while...

i would trust Chinese developers much more than i would a Microsoft sales marketdroid...

P.S. Have a nice day :^)

Re:er... (2, Insightful)

Ianoo (711633) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587138)

What makes you think all Chinese are communists? That's like saying all Germans were Nazis during WWII, which is very very far from the truth. The problem in totalitarian regimes is that you're not allowed to say anything substantial against the government... but it's not illegal to think it (well, not yet anyway).

GAYBOY KNEEL IS A FAT FUCK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587053)

yes he is. put both hands on the table and push yourself away fatso.

Forced to use IE? (4, Insightful)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587054)

This is not like Windows-Linux, where there is a steep learning curve.

Mozilla (or Phoenix) is a slick alternative with an almost zero learning curve to pick up the same level as IE. It also takes almost no time to learn features _that aren't in IE anyway_ that help you see the internet in a much more useful way (ad blocking etc).

No one is forced to use IE with very few exceptions:

People who have it mandated at work, but that's work's problem not yours - they could change too.
People on dialup who have a very slow net connection - but they probably have it on a dial up CD.
People who use it's integrated rendering engine for OE/HTML email - but you can change that easily too.
People who _must_ access IE only websites - but there are very few of these any more, and you can always use IE just for these to lower your exposure.
Microsoft Zelots who refuse to believe that Free software can be any good - but they deserve everything they get.

Re:Forced to use IE? (1)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587084)

Often people used to complain about the speed of Mozilla vs IE, i think Mozilla has caught up to speed now but personally (and on my crappy 400mhz) both pale in comparison to Opera, ive been using it solely for 3 years straight and i just cant use anything slower because the responsiveness hurts my head, i cant even put my finger on what they do to make it _seem_ faster but it just does, especially switching and creating tabs. Mozilla/Firebird is probably the future though.

On second thoughts (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587055)

[i]Sure, a lot of people don't like Microsoft, but that's no reason to [b]make it worse[/b] for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products[/i] Make it worse and make em' switch to a better browser. Also reporting about these holes before MS can do anything about it will get them up to speed on fixing it, rather than keeping it quiet like they normally do when somebody does report a hole to MS.

Re:On second thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587142)

Sure, a lot of people don't like Microsoft, but that's no reason to make it worse for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products

Make it worse and make em' switch to a better browser. Also reporting about these holes before MS can do anything about it will get them up to speed on fixing it, rather than keeping it quiet like they normally do when somebody does report a hole to MS.

Sometimes it's all about timing (5, Insightful)

harmonics (145499) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587056)

While my firm is a strong supporter of full disclosure, this is rather over the top.

What makes it worse is the timing, over a holiday weekend (States side), where most systems staff will be unable to apply patches or mitigate risks.

Now this is an Internet Explorer exploit, hence, few people using IE at work over the weekend. It still provides 48 hours for a few unsavory individuals to develop exploits for Monday morning.

We need to exercise better judgement when dealing with vendors and security issues, this isn't the first time things like this have happened, and won't be the last.

Perhaps we should consider spending more effort creating a Security Researchers Organization as has been discussed on BugTraq [securityfocus.com].

Until we have a strong unified organization I believe we will continue to see unresponsive vendors and poorly timed vulnerability releases.

Be careful what you wish for.... (1)

Seahawk91 (585715) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587064)

I am sure the anti-trust judges will merely (and quite easily) remove IE from their Windows desktops and not even worry about security issues.

Unbelievable Arrogance (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587066)

... for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products

I'd like to know who the editor thinks are "forcing" people to use Microsoft products.

Nobody put a gun to my head and ordered me to buy Windows XP. I believe I made a rational decision based on the price, quality, and usability that I chose Microsoft.

It's a pretty arrogant attitude around here that people who use Microsoft are just too dumb, or have been coerced by dark, nefarious forces. No wonder people don't take you geeks seriously.

Re:Unbelievable Arrogance (4, Insightful)

thenextpresident (559469) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587099)

"I'd like to know who the editor thinks are "forcing" people to use Microsoft products."

People at work who have to use Windows because it's work mandated.

Their's millions of those type of people...

MSIE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587075)

IE has more holes in it than a row of nerds after the firing squad got done with them.

This has gone on long enough! (0, Interesting)

fleener (140714) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587076)

> make it worse for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products

It's bad that enough nerdy Microsoft Windows users must endure the incessant rudeness of Linux users to get their 'news that matters' on Slashdot. But for CowBoy Neal to permit a discussion topic that implies we are slaves to Microsoft is just plain offensive. Did you ever once consider we might feel liberated to use Microsoft products? It's like looking out into the ocean, seeing a swarm of sharks feeding in the surf, and then choosing to paddle out to ride the waves. It's an adrenaline rush.

Using Microsoft products is not genetics or how we were raised. It's a choice and we're damn proud of it.

Re:This has gone on long enough! (3, Funny)

thenextpresident (559469) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587110)

"Using Microsoft products is not genetics or how we were raised. It's a choice and we're damn proud of it."

Actually, it wasn't a choice. MS had a monopoly, and therefore, you really had no choice.

"security holes which have yet to be exploited" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587079)

Who are you kidding ? How can you even say that ? How could you possibly know that ?

It is probably safer to assume they are in fact being exploited.

In other news... (1)

blixel (158224) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587080)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list.

In other news ... "Microsoft is holding up compensation claims from a quarter of million Californians in order to punish Lindows.com"

Re: Apple (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587089)

yeah you keep telling yourself that fanboy, and we all know how friendly they are to their customers and the greatness of their products egh ?
http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/ [ipodsdirtysecret.com]

The part about this story that gets to me is that (1)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587090)

And do you think M$ of M$ fan boys would alert an OS project if they had a security flaw before telling the Rags. I don't, they would instead run around going "see OS is dangerous look at all the users getting cracked see see" Any one knows with a lick of sense that any development model can produce buggy software as a general rule open development is better but by no means perfect. They use the discovery of bugs to damage OS, we should use it to damage them. Fact is the more M$ hosts that get cracked the better, there is nothin g like getting burned badly to make you want to switch platforms to something with at least* fewer security bugs. In general I am not a big zelot who goes about demanding everyone switch platforms especially switching away from something they are confortable with but the OS community REALLY needs some big players to switch right now otherwise we are gonna see more problems like with DVD which commercially was only supported on WIN/MAC and for all I know still is, but getting a bios designed only to boot windows working with alternate platforms will likely be alot harder then deCSS, not to mential all the highly proprietary authentication scemes and MS-TCP, the list gones on...

Microsoft is being forced to eat their dogfood... (4, Informative)

SwansonMarpalum (521840) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587095)

Microsoft has claimed time and again that their response times to security alerts are sterling, as opposed to the "slow" response times for OSS. They make these claims without telling consumers that they have known about the exploit for months and are publicly releasing knowledge right before they release the fix.

This is a case of people letting Microsoft's boastful ways catch up to it. If they are as fast as they have claimed, time and again, there won't be a problem for those people who are diligent in patching.

Additionally with the advent of companies using the DMCA to try and stifle this behavior, it is more important than ever to engage in it and further show the flaws with this absolutely off the wall piece of legislation. See this [slashdot.org] article.

What does this mean for ${product}?! (1)

c13v3rm0nk3y (189767) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587098)

What can this mean for ${product}?

I thought the strength of ${product} was security through complete obscurity. I've been recommended ${product} and other solutions from ${company} as an alternative to open-source software (which is inherently insecure) but now my belief in proprietory software has been shaken because of this flaw in ${product}.

Between this, and that last service worm, I'm not sure I can trust proprietory software anymore.

What should I do?

I disagree, Cowboy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587105)

How many people really get affected by IE security vulnerabilities? There aren't any massive IE viruses and stuff... It would probably be best used in some kind of corporate espionage, not against the general public. I haven't heard of anyone getting affected by one of these vulnerabilities yet. The one that allows a hole in ActiveX/Javascript to eject your CDROM is priceless though ;)

In any case, I do agree that notifying the vendor at least a week in advance is a good general policy. But releasing an actual exploit app I think is also necessary. Giving script kiddies the ability to easily abuse the hole forces the vendor to fix the hole and get people to patch; the big worms like Blaster are an example. It got so out of hand you had the television telling you where to go to patch up. Now if only they'd tell me about updated Slackware packages...

The problem is obvious (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587106)

MS has too many chinks in their armor!

MS sucks as usual (1)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587112)

A billion dollar software giant cant even get a bloody browser right after 6 version and even when its not crashing or having security flaws it still cant render HTML or CSS properly. Hell they screwed up even on email.

And Microsoft wants to write software for cars and business servers and sell their products for 1000's and claim they are the best and that other software methods are cancer??? Go screw yourselves you fuckwits.

What I don't understand... (5, Interesting)

fermion (181285) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587118)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list.

What irks me is that MS did not discover these themselves. After all, the closed source, security by obscurity, we can do it all ourselves model of software development is so superior, that we can only draw one of two conclusions. Either their superior technicians found the problems already, but the management decided not to put in the resources to fix it, or their superior technicians did not find the bug, in which case they need to not only fix the problem, but understand why their process so routinely fails.

This is not an issue of hating MS, any more than the other recent alert was an issue of hating Apple. It is an issue of knowing there is a problem out there, but having no power in the official process to correct the problem. The only power the might be had is that of public relations. This is very different from OSS, in which one can potentially affect the development process and at least see that something is being done.

This whole issue of course assumes that dozens of other people have not already found the bug and are exploiting it on small scales not easily detectible by the common methods. And of course does not take into account the ability for people to switch browsers. Just imagine how many lives would have been saved if people had been fully aware of the incompetent design of the Explorer and bought other cars instead.

Chicken before the egg (2, Insightful)

CooCooCaChoo (668937) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587130)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list. Sure, a lot of people don't like Microsoft, but that's no reason to make it worse for the millions of people who are forced to use Microsoft products, especially for security holes which have yet to be exploited.

Although in a perfect world, we would have companies auditing their own code and finding exploits in their own products, the fact remains that unless there is a perverable rocket aimed at their behind, nothing will be done.

The fact remains that we have an organisation here with over 40,000 employees, over $40billion dollars in cash and yet, they're making *really* stupid mistakes. I am sure most people could cut Microsoft some slack if they were a small business OR that these incidents were as rare as hens teeth, however, when it becomes "have you applied the daily patch", people lose their cool.

The unfortunate thing, however, is due to Microsofts huge marketing muscle, this approach by "exploit finders" doesn't work. Microsoft instead of taking on board the information and applogising, instead they spin the story as to make out that the person who finds the exploit is somehow linked to a grand anti-Microsoft conspiracy, and god forbid, call them a "terrorist" for "exposing" the unwashed masses to "harm".

pateNTdead eyecon0meter: stuff that really matters (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7587139)

nov. 'net traffic up 4-5%, from multi-month lows.

user search terms requested are not matching buyassed results. users search elsewhere.

chips ARE a dime a dozen? software IS 'free'? must be the gnu millennium kicking in?

any other 'pr' 'firm' scriptdead hypenosys notion of any other scarcity, is also total spew.

for each of the creators' innocents harmed, there is a badtoll that must/will be repaid by you/US, as the execrabilious perpetraitors of the life0cide against the creators' planet/population, will not be available to make reparations, as the big flash is underway.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators... you call this weather?

As if... (1)

timerider (14785) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587148)

The part about this story that gets to me is that the researcher didn't alert Microsoft before posting to a public mailing list.

As if microsoft would care about said holes unless the first exploits are out there in the wild...
bye,
[L]

bugs = money for IT industry (1)

zumbojo (615389) | more than 10 years ago | (#7587150)

I'm sure it's been said before but...: Shouldn't we realize that the bugs, holes, viruses, incompatibilities and needless complexities in the computer world are providing us with well-paid work? It almost makes sense that a software giant would purposefully include errors - they have to be fixed by someone, and that someone sure as hell won't do it for free. Most of us addicted to Slashdot either run Linux or can keep MS/Apple problems at bay on our own machines. The problem hits everyone else. We are the ones that get money as a result of these "problems." My deluxe single dorm room (with a view I might add) is free because I run around on afternoons -at my own schedule- (mmm freedom is good) and fix other students' computer troubles.

Personally, as soon as I saw this report on Reuters I said to myself "HOT DAMN! More money for me!" I am gonna sit back and enjoy the ride.
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