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Cheap On-Line CD/DVD Storage Library?

Cliff posted more than 10 years ago | from the isn't-there-a-market-for-this dept.

Data Storage 106

ngoy asks: "I download gigabytes of stuff from Usenet and burn it onto CD's (and soon DVD's). I have countless numbers of spindles filled with apps, games, MP3's, and so forth. Does anyone know of a cheap (sub $400) storage library that can hold 300 CD's or more and is smaller than the refrigerator sized libraries of day's old? I know Pioneer used to make a 6 disc CD-ROM changer, based on their car stereo, but that is the largest I have seen for quite a while. Googling for jukeboxes gives me a range of prices starting at $2000 to $6000 on up. Sony makes consumer DVD players that have 300 and 400 disc capacities for $500 and $400, why is there not something similar for computers? If you stripped out the A/V stuff from the Sony, you should save another $50 to $100, so theoretically I should be able to buy a changer for around $300. Isn't there a market for such devices?"

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106 comments

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busted (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664303)

The MPAA, RIAA and BSA will be knocking on your door shortly.

P.S. Noone else is a filthy thief like you.

turn yourself in, pirate (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664315)

I download gigabytes of stuff from Usenet and burn it onto CD's (and soon DVD's). I have countless numbers of spindles filled with apps, games, MP3's, and so forth.

Hey, those jukeboxes are expensive, but why pay when you can steal? Sneak into CompUSA at night and "share" yourself a few!

Re:turn yourself in, pirate (1)

bluethundr (562578) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664911)

Hey, those jukeboxes are expensive, but why pay when you can steal? Sneak into CompUSA at night and "share" yourself a few!

Sony GPLd their hardware? Lemme atit!

Re:turn yourself in, pirate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665026)

Cuz you know he's the only pirate on this board, otherwise this story wouldn't have been posted. Oh, wait...

Re:turn yourself in, pirate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665073)

Well, for one thing, CompUSA won't still have the jukebox if he steals it from them.

Re:turn yourself in, pirate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7678651)

This is ridiculous!

I work in a business environment, what this guy is asking for is something we want (but, in our case, are willing to buy something like a "Powerfile" for). Easy 'legal' case scenario:

You have multiple machines, you back stuff up to CD on each. Rather than buying a big firewire drive and hopping that around, you burn CDs at regular intervals, and then drop all the CDs into the changer. That way, they're moderately "live", each computer can deal with creating files on CD... And MOST importantly: Should the jukebox ever give out, the media stored within is ALSO still readable on an individual's computer. We create magazines at my job, and CDs/DVDs make the perfect backup medium for a single issue's worth of text/images. With a juke, we can retain semi-online access to back issues for reference, without clogging the server (which we have optimized for SPEED, rather than capacity).

Honestly, at home, I would love* to have something like this... I think the gist of the question is: what are the technical obstacles to cheaper jukes for the consumer, seeing as the Audio* Jukeboxes are so comparatively cheap?

It's the perfect combination of storage space and failsafe-readable. Of course, the discs themselves can age into oblivion... But again, by THEN, we'll have another disc-like recordable that can fit several of the old discs onto one of the new ones.

It jjust makes sense, why the piracy assumption?!?

Hard Drive? (4, Insightful)

frantzdb (22281) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664322)

Why not just use a USB or FireWire hard drive? I can't imagine a robotic CD system being cheeper or more convenient.

Re:Hard Drive? (2, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664353)

exactly.. if needs to be accessed there's not much point in archiving it to bulky jukebox systems. they're bulky and not very convinient. my bro used to have a 4cdrom changer ide drive way baaaaaack in the day. it was kind of cool though, but not that useful even.

and their existance is also the reason why you don't see too many cheap jukeboxes around. also making them costs money as well.

Re:Hard Drive? (1)

ngoy (551435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7680200)

The point is that the Sony system is not really bulky compared to the stuff you normally see on the net. It is not that much taller than a a dvd (5"?) and is the same width as a stereo component. Other storage systems anywhere from 4 to 50 times larger, and do not have the same storage density. ngoy

Re:Hard Drive? (3, Interesting)

jeffkjo1 (663413) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664483)

Yea, the only problem with harddrives is they inevitably fail. CD's and DVD's fail also, but if one of them dies, you've lost that one DVD, if your HD dies, you've lost everything.

I backup frequently for just this purpose, and low and behold, I would also like a better method of storage than putting CD's back on empty spindles.

Re:Hard Drive? (2, Insightful)

El (94934) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664522)

the only problem with harddrives is they inevitably fail. That's why they invented RAID.

Re:Hard Drive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664563)

the only problem with harddrives is they inevitably fail.
That's why they invented RAID.

You know what that means then, right?

RAIDVD!

Re:Hard Drive? (0, Offtopic)

Elm Tree (17570) | more than 10 years ago | (#7669049)

Imagine a beowolf cluster of those!

Re:Hard Drive? (2)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665382)

So, as other posters have pointed out. A comparable hard drive rig woul dbe like 2000 bucks. Double that for RAID and you are at 4000 bucks.

Re:Hard Drive? (1)

uradu (10768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665626)

> comparable hard drive rig woul dbe like 2000 bucks.

Yeah, except he hasn't got anything on DVD-R yet, so why bother even starting? Archive straight to HD, which is a much more sensible thing to do anyway. A lot more reliable than CD/DVD, and can be backed up (to another HD) unattended and very quickly. There's really no excuse to "archive" to CD-R or DVD-R.

Re:Hard Drive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7668775)

Use 2 enclosures $50 x 2 = $100
http://www.thenerds.net/productpage.asp?un=1 76605& s=1

and 2 200GB hard drives $165 x 20 = $330
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.as p?DEPA =&sumit=Go&description=22%2D144%2D139&searchdepa=0

Total cost $430

Re:Hard Drive? (2, Insightful)

uradu (10768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665593)

> Yea, the only problem with harddrives is they inevitably fail.

Well, guess what? Your original CDs are still there, as a "backup". Sorry, no matter which way you toss and turn it, the HD solution comes out making more sense. No CD jukebox is going to be as reliable long-term: CDs can get jammed and scratched, the fairly delicate mechanism can break, there's wear and tear on the CDs even if everything works smoothly, and you end up with a system that is SLOW and can only handle ONE CD AT A TIME. A 200GB drive will run you $150 and can hold around 300 CD images, so two drives and a RAID controller still come in under the $400 figure. And you can serve up multiple CDs at the same time.

Re:Hard Drive? (1)

MikeXpop (614167) | more than 10 years ago | (#7676791)

"...if one of them dies, you've lost that one DVD, if your HD dies, you've lost everything."

Yeah, but if you used CD's instead of DVD's, that would be better. I mean, I've a DVD dies, you've lost 4.7 gigs. If a CD dies, you've only lost 700 megs.

Which really is what makes zip disks a better alternative. If a zip disk dies, you've only lost 100 megs, not 700.

The obvious solution? Backup using floppies. It's the only way.

Mod a Sony Changer (1, Interesting)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664324)

I've thought about doing it a few times. Take apart your DVD-burner. Put the parts in a CD Jukebox. They might even fit together without a lot of tinkering.

Re:Mod a Sony Changer (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664627)

Better yet, mod a coin operated CD jukebox-jukebox. The real thing they put in bars these days. Then rig it to not need money.

Or leave it coin operated and use it to tax yourself until you have enough money to buy what you've downloaded.

Re:Mod a Sony Changer (0, Flamebait)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665252)

I think it's fucking hilarious that all you idiots think this can only be used for piracy.

Where's all the whining about how deCSS is educational and Napster was a legitimate business?

Face it: pirating pays for itself, with or without this. 300 x 4.5gb == 1.3 terabytes that can be easily catalogued and removed piecemeal for long-term storage. Where's that fucking hard drive troll now?

Fucking hipocrites.

Re:Mod a Sony Changer (1)

toast0 (63707) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666077)

if you read the question, it's fairly obvious that this is illegitamite. If the poster hadn't mentioned he got it from usenet, it might be questionable, but you just don't get that much legitimate software, etc from usenet.

Re:Mod a Sony Changer (1)

jago25_98 (566531) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666779)

in his case perhaps but taking your own video footage could be a more legal and similar setup

Re:Mod a Sony Changer (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 10 years ago | (#7669426)

Yes, if one does install a DVD burner in a jukebox it could have legitimate uses like such as self-publishing one's own works or making a backup of a very large system.

For the former though, a duplication station that also incorporates label printing is a better fit than modding a consumer multi-disc changer. You'd want to automate all the time-consuming steps of process.

The submitter though isn't asking for a bulk burner. He's already burned a lot of disks and wants automated access to them. His dubiously acquired library has grown beyond his ability to handle.

benjamindees is right that such a system with a burner isn't strictly a piracy tool. He just made a bad presumption (particularly so in an Ask Slashdot discussion) that I was talking to him instead of the submitter.

Re:Mod a Sony Changer (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666955)

Actually, if it's his pr0n collection, it's (probably) legit.

Perfect solution - IDE disks (5, Insightful)

jmac880n (659699) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664342)

Why not buy a couple of cheap 200Gb IDE disks? Prices are drifting to close to $1/Gb. You use the CD/DVD images as backups (your data is probably pretty static, from what you say).

At work, we set up a server devoted to this. We load up ISO images, mount them with the loopback device, and export them via NFS.

Much better than changers. We used several of them before we hit upon this scheme.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (2, Informative)

Omega Hacker (6676) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664640)

Because a 400-disc changer loaded with 400 full DVD-R's is almost 1.9 TB. That's $2000 just of drives, not including the machine to put them in. There just isn't much comparison, assuming your requirements are weighted towards huge storage capacity and not high-speed/low-latency access.

If consumer CD/DVD changers for audio/video can be made at $1/slot, there is absolutely no technical reason the read couldn't be replaced with an ATAPI drive. Someone could make a killing selling such a product.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664979)

400 DVD-R's aren't exactly cheap either.

(at least last time I looked)

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (2, Insightful)

afidel (530433) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665039)

about $300 so nothing like the cost of that much storage in rotating media.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

uradu (10768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665668)

This equation only holds for relatively short periods. Historically few mediums have managed to keep up with hard drives cost-wise, and that is certainly going to continue. In a couple of years (probably the time it will take him to download/burn those 400 DVD-Rs anyway) you can probably get 1TB drives for the cost of today's 300GB drives, while at the same time the blue laser DVD will probably only just start hitting the market. So for a short time, sure, optical will be cheaper, but you have to wonder if it's worth the bother long-term. Backing up those hundreds of disks is a M A J O R piece of work, while if you had them on HD it would be a matter of minutes or hours at worst.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 10 years ago | (#7667274)

You can get 400 DVD-R's for $300??
jeez - I thought they were still $15 each.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7668827)

500 for $300 dollars [yesbuy.net]

even includes free shipping. $15? you must not have looked for a long time

price/storage space ratio (4, Insightful)

snooo53 (663796) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664828)

jmac880 hit the nail on the head here. I had the same idea about a jukebox changer a few years back, when hard drives were only in the 1-4 gb range. Load up one with cd-r's and you have enormous storage capacity.

The problem now, is that in the current market hard drives are dirt cheap, and are hundreds of times larger in capacity than a cd or even a DVD. It simply doesn't make economic sense to buy a DVD changer (and discs) for $400 or more when you can get somewhere in the neighborhood of a TB of hard drive space for the same amount (even lower than a $1/GB nowadays), not to mention lower seek times and more secure storage (some of those cd-rs I burned 4 years ago are almost unreadable)

Now I do think that a DVD changer would make economic sense if the larger ~27GB capacity DVDs come out soon and their price drops quickly. Then when you're talking about 25-100TB of storage in a changer it makes a lot more economic sense. For right now though, hard drives are the way to go.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

Praetor11 (512322) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665014)

Just for the record, if you look (and I mean look just about anywhere), you can get 7200 RPM IDE drives for around and just under 50 CENTS a gig. So come on, compare building a 400 DVD changer plus the price of burning the actual DVD's (not to mention the enormous amount of time) with that of making a nice RAID 1.5 (or ever just striped RAID, since you obviously don't care much for speed....) setup...

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

extra88 (1003) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666325)

Under $.50/GB? Where? Even the lowest listed on PriceWatch (I'd probably never trust the lowest price listed) is $101 for 160GB or just over $.63/GB.

a nice RAID 1.5 (or ever just striped RAID, since you obviously don't care much for speed....) setup...

RAID1.5 is too new for me to trust it. I'd stick with good old RAID1 if using only 2 drives and RAID5 if more than 2. And why mention striped RAID (RAID0), that provides zero redundancy and this guy it talking about backups! Also, when comparing hard drives to disc changers, I don't think the performance issues derived from RAID or rpm differences are an issue.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

stienman (51024) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665319)

Well, let's see here...

500 DVD-R disks - $258, total of 2.4TB of information
400 disk DVD changer - ideally $492, total of 1.9TB of information available

Total cost for a 2TB, near line storage device: $750. (probably ought to include the cost of a dvd+-r/rw, but it's still under $1000)

Can you even get 1TB for under $1000? Almost - a 200GB drive is around $150, so you can get 1TB for $1000.

There are good reasons to consider this sort of storage. Especially if you want to trade off power consumption for access time, to mention one aspect.

At any rate, to answer the original poster's question:

NO. No such "consumer" or "prosumer" device is going to be made now or in the near future. Such a device is intended to have sales exceeding 1,000 units, as a minimum, at a much higher price point. There aren't nearly enough people who want such a device to make it practical to sell at your price point. I remember the old CD-ROM changers that were meant for prosumers, and they died a quick death, though in theory you could change the CD-rom used for a DVD drive, but IIRC they didn't hold many discs, 50 or so. I think they came out before the carousel kind became common, and it was linear - took up lots of room for few discs.

-Adam

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

uradu (10768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665742)

> There are good reasons to consider this sort of storage.

Not enough to motivate even cheap Chinese manufacturers to bother.
The cost/GB notwithstanding, the jukebox approach has too many disadvantages. The three from a home user's perspective would be:

1. concurrent use
2. speed
3. reliability

Since pretty much the only kind of data that would take that much space is multimedia, you have to look at its usage patterns. If you were to store your MP3, movie and pr0n collection on there, you'd have a system that only one user could use at a time. If your S.O. were listening to some music, you couldn't do the same, and you couldn't watch a movie, and you couldn't even release your resulting frustration the natural way ;->

Assuming you live alone (not a big assumption here), you would still get frustrated with how long it takes to change MP3 tracks across disks. And every once in a while a CD would get jammed (like in those stereo jukeboxes), or be unreadable for reasons only CDs know, just when you're in the middle of being good to yourself. Now wouldn't that suck?

So why would I want to store my data in a jukebox again?

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

plsander (30907) | more than 10 years ago | (#7668118)

Add a smallish hard drive and do caching...

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

ngoy (551435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7680248)

>Not enough to motivate even cheap Chinese manufacturers to bother. >The cost/GB notwithstanding, the jukebox approach has too many disadvantages. But someone came up with this [tigerdirect.com] and it got manufactured. Not that it sells well. It doesn't even read the media!!! I am sure it would cost sony a whole 1 hour of engineering to convert their dvd players to be computer compatible.

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (1)

tfernand (703243) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665477)

Thats brilliant so you basically make the iso images then use something similar to: "mount -t iso9660 -o ro,exec,loop image.disk1 /mnt"

Re:Perfect solution - IDE disks (0)

anthony_philipp (710666) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665589)

cheaper than 1 dollar per gigabyte if you dont want 7200 rmp which is fine if you aernt using it much.

Please (2, Funny)

mike_lynn (463952) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664374)

Tell me your name and where you live so I can submit it to the BSA/FBI, er ... send you some tips.

Next on "Ask Slashdot" (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664426)

What's the best gun for robbing liquer stores?
Terrorist HOWTO
Money Laundering for Dummies
My lifemate fell onto a 1 liter soda bottle, and now its stuck. Should I call a doctor?

Re:Next on "Ask Slashdot" (0, Offtopic)

jcenters (570494) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664499)

My lifemate fell onto a 1 liter soda bottle, and now its stuck. Should I call a doctor?

So now we know the story of the goat.cx guy!

Re:Next on "Ask Slashdot" (1)

Uma Thurman (623807) | more than 10 years ago | (#7676364)

Who's the troll now?

What are you thinking?! (3, Insightful)

LSD-OBS (183415) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664442)

For sub-$400 (we're talking around $370) you can get yourself a more compact, more convenient and faster mass storage system that'll give you instant access to the equivalent of over 430 x 80min CDs. It's called an IDE hard drive. Specifically the Maxtor 300Gb.

Maybe you just want to see robotics in action?

Re:What are you thinking?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665418)

Mod parent up.

400 * 650 MB ~= 250 GB, scare up the $280 and head down to Fry's. Nothing juke-box like will come in under $1000.

Re:What are you thinking?! (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | more than 10 years ago | (#7676687)

Bottom line, if you *really* want to keep your data safe, be prepared to spend the cash to do it. As a rough guess, bottom cost would be 4x the cost per gigabyte of current drive technology. (Which is around US$0.75/gigabyte right now, times 4 is $3.00/gigabyte.)

If you're willing to be cheaper and risk the data, hook (2) USB external drives up and mirror from the primary to the secondary daily. That cost would only be $2.00 per gigabyte or so. (Archival to DVD-R is also an option instead of a second HD and would drop the cost to $1.50 or so per gigabyte.)

Help with your piracy? (0, Flamebait)

jpsowin (325530) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664444)

So you want us to help with your piracy? I can't believe this was even posted as a news item.

Re:Help with your piracy? (0, Flamebait)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664478)

Yeah, no joke, how pathetic is that?

I mean, I know everyone here at Slashdot hates intellectual property laws, but let's be real here.

The answer should be: Use the money you saved by being an ASS to artists and buy a crapload of harddrives.

Re:Help with your piracy? (1)

ngoy (551435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7680179)

LOL, I'm not the one that posts stuff on usenet. It is actually for my Paris Hilton porn collection. I haven't found a legimate copy yet of the video but downloaded so much other stuff in the process I need to archive it for later viewing. ;-P ngoy

wait a minute... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664466)

so, you're asking slashdot for help in storing all your porn and warez? what?

Hi, My Name is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664546)

Hi, My Name is ngoy and I have a download adiction.

On a related note (3, Interesting)

El (94934) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664573)

I'd be more interested in a device I can stack several audio CDs into at once so I can rip them all to MP3/FLAC/whatever without manually inserting each one. Does anybody else out there with a ~1000 CD collection feel this way?


By the way, the cheapest way of storing 400 CDs worth of bits is probably a RAID array of hard drives set up for mirroring... some motherboards now support RAID out of the box. 400 CDs x 700MBytes/CD = 280GBytes; that should be no problem. 400 DVDs, on the other hand, would be over 1600Gbytes, that could get pricey... but I don't know anybody who has THAT much porn!

Re:On a related note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664599)

a RAID array of hard drives

a redundant array of inexpensive disks array of hard drives?

400 DVDs, on the other hand, would be over 1600Gbytes, that could get pricey... but I don't know anybody who has THAT much porn!

Google has that much porn.

Re:On a related note (1)

kommakazi (610098) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664638)

Or perhaps you just don't know the extent of your friends' prOn collections!

Re:On a related note (1)

stu72 (96650) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664992)

This is close to what you want - perhaps it could be modified to rip instead of copy?

http://www.summationtechnology.com/orbitmicro.ht m

Guess what, dipshit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665271)

It's the same fucking device.

Re:On a related note (1)

kyz (225372) | more than 10 years ago | (#7667190)

I had a lot of CDs, too -- I just encoded them one by one. It took a month. MP3 encoding (the good kind, VBR, not fixed bitrate) took longer than reading the discs anyway... you don't want to know what 25 instances of LAME running does to your CPU load...

Re:On a related note (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 10 years ago | (#7669688)

I'd be more interested in a device I can stack several audio CDs into at once so I can rip them all to MP3/FLAC/whatever without manually inserting each one. Does anybody else out there with a ~1000 CD collection feel this way?

Didn't they have something like this for vinyl playback?

Yeah, I went down this road (1)

mckwant (65143) | more than 10 years ago | (#7671133)

Something like:

0. get CDDB information
1. rip the tracks off of the CD
2. have the robot change cds
3. Call this script again

I ended up doing it by hand, but during that process, I came up with a couple of reasons it won't work. Primary among them is that CDDB (or FreeDB, or whatever) isn't infallible. I think I had fifteen or so CDs that weren't recognized, and some of the entries had misspellings (e.g. is Bjork spelled with or without an umlauf?).

Yes, I know you can go BACK and change these things, but it'll be easier to do on the fly.

The best idea I came up with is to rip the cds to wav files separately from encoding them. Then, while you're sitting there (since you're looking to maximize YOUR time doing this), you can just rip to your heart's content. When you're ready to be away from the computer, set the encoder to encode, and let the processor work in the background, at least from your perspective. Come back later, stop the encoding process, and rip some more, lather, rinse, repeat.

The second best idea, which I ended up implementing, is to do it at work. If you've got a CD burner, bring your CDS into work incrementally, rip four or five a day, burn them to CD, and repeat. It's not fun, but at least you've got a backup. I had to rip my entire collection for the second time because the hard drive I was storing the first effort on puked and died. At least this way, you've got a backup. Or, in my case, two.

I'll be doing my entire collection for a third time, probably, since I realized that I don't ALWAYS want VBR 320b/s encoding. 160 or so is just fine for the car or plane, and I'd rather have 10 albums/CD than 5 while mobile anyway. So, I think I have to rerip everything, unless somebody knows how to downsample mp3s.

It's OK, as I also have to get RAID going on my currently nonexistant file server, so it's in the "later" bin.

I should probably go OGG while I'm at it, but, well....

Re:Yeah, I went down this road (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | more than 10 years ago | (#7676504)

I had to rip my entire collection for the second time because the hard drive I was storing the first effort on puked and died.

Been there done dat (recently). With (3) decent speed machines I was able to rip a few CDs per hour and plowed through most of the collection in about a week (got odds-n-ends left). Once I was finished ripping, but before I sorted the files out according to genre, I dumped them to DVD-R (as well as QuickPar'ing the files on the DVD), then tossed the CDs back in the storage box in the closet.

For downsampling MP3s, look into Easy CD-DA Extractor [poikosoft.com] ... also rips. (I've been happily using the software for a few years. Well worth the few bucks it cost to register.)

Translation... (1)

I Be Hatin' (718758) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664609)

I download gigabytes of stuff from Usenet and burn it onto CD's (and soon DVD's). I have countless numbers of spindles filled with apps, games, MP3's, and so forth...

Translation:

I download gigabytes of stuff from Usenet and burn it onto CD's (and soon DVD's). I have countless numbers of spindles filled with pr0n, pr0n, pr0n, and pr0n...

hack it together (3, Interesting)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664661)

get a Dacal CD Library [dacal.com.tw] (150-disc carousel cd changer, minus the CDROM drive) for $100 and spend a few hours and a few bucks building a little robotic arm to move the discs from the library's ejection slot into a CDROM and back. The library can be controlled via USB (proprietary software but it cant be THAT hard to reverse engineer). I have a pair of the old round ones, but have heard the new 'square' ones perform a little better.

Re:hack it together (1)

jjshoe (410772) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665222)

Very nice! i myself have looked into many options on doing the same thing as the submitter and had looked into the round version of this type of device. The issue with the round one being that it barely pushed cd's out at all... this one however that you can clearly see in their pictures pushes the cd out quite a ways, in fact, probly enough to be grabbed by a slot loading cd-rom drive. Slot Load [alancomputech.com] My only issue with this method is it is extremely hard to find a newer slot load drive, thus your probly not going to get high speed DAE. Which basicaly means instead of taking 5 minutes ot rip a cd, you could spend as long as 30 minutes on a cd when the reader gets hot.. you might also need to create a mechanism to help it eject the cd because i am unfamiliar with slot load's or how far they kick cd's out.

Re:hack it together (2, Funny)

KILNA (536949) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665290)

From the Dacal website FAQ:

Does CD Library works with computer only?

No, CD Library no only can work with computer, but also can operate it manually. Just dial the snob on the CD Library and users can see the number changes on the display. ...

The rest of the web site seems to have quite a bit of translation humor in it as well.

Here's a solution...kinda (2, Informative)

kommakazi (610098) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664674)

Buy (find? steal? "aquire"?) and old peice of sh*t server/PC with a SCSI motherboard or card that has a crapload of full size drive bays, fill them up with CD-ROMs, slap in a cheapo network card, install some free flavor of a *nix system and there you go. You can probably make a few of these relatively cheaply if you got the right hook-ups for getting "garbage" PC hardware.

Re:Here's a solution...kinda (2, Funny)

uradu (10768) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665781)

Finally, sleep with the manager of your local power plant to get a sweetheart deal on all that electricity.

Legos (1)

Webmoth (75878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664712)

Maybe you could try something like this [slashdot.org] .

Re:Legos (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7664789)

Oh jeeze. That page reminded me of why I hated Klerck so much. Gotta love the Three's Company parody though. Classic.

The PLP/PWP Theme Song
(sung to the tune of "Three's Company")

Come and look at our trolls
Come and look at our trolls
Slashdot org is our host
Slashdot org is our host
And you'll see an annoying comment called
Page Lengthening Post!

When I'm reading this site
When I'm reading this site
This upsets me the most
This upsets me the most
Cuz it makes all the pages hard to read
Page Widening Post!

You'll raise your threshold to zero and email Taco real soon!

Now let's all raise a toast
Now let's all raise a toast
Page Lengthening Post!

SONY=Overpriced consumer CRAP! (3, Informative)

bluethundr (562578) | more than 10 years ago | (#7664846)

Sony makes consumer DVD players that have 300 and 400 disc capacities for $500 and $400,

I must admit, I love standardizing on technologies when it comes to jamming components into my entertainment center. Long ago, I made the ill-advised decision to do so with SONY components. By far the worst purchase I made was the 200 DVD changer (back then a new-ish technology).

A number of things turned me of about this particular unit. For one, one of the most heavily sold features of the unit was it's ability to organize cd/dvds by category (buggy and worked not at all). The slots they gave for naming the DVDs was so sparse that I had to abbreviate the names and hoped I remembered what the ad-hoc acryonyms were meant to stand for. I considered this particularly unforgivable because by the time this box had been made available RAM had been SUPER cheap for a really long time. Then there were the icons they gave you to represent the DVDs in question. They were SOOOO bad and reminded me of my VIC-20 (not even C64!) days in the 80s and looked like they were designed by a derranged child to boot. I considered nearly every "feature" sub-standard and poorly implemented.

Possibly the BEST feature was what I call the "time bomb" feaure. It was like it had a clock counting down to when the warranty expired. Seemingly at 12:01 AM on the day that it did expire the player STOPPED recognizing DVD, scanning through each successive slot until it reports "NO DVD FOUND". Using a store bought DVD cleaner availed me naught. I called Sony support and they were about as useful as ever (that is to say as useful as a chocolate tea-pot) and was told that I had to shell out $150 bux to get the beast fixed. Caveat emptor, indeed! I now realize my naivte in trusting the SONY or for that matter blind faith in any product line. Not even APPLE ;) (j/k)

Re:SONY=Overpriced consumer CRAP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7666472)

the 200 disc carosel (for both the cd and dvd players) was a truly funky mechanism. ive read that the new 300 disc mechanism solves some of the problems, but from the pictures it still looks to me like its designed expressly to shatter your discs when the (nylon) drive gears wear a little bit and it gets a little sloppy....

and yes, ive seen one of these break a cd.

Cliffnotes (3, Funny)

man_ls (248470) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665111)

To summarize the submitter's comments:

"I have a fetish for breaking copyright law. Music, movies, apps, games, you name it, I've pirated it. I have so much of it that I can't fit it on my hard drive, so I burn it to CDs (soon to be DVDs) and sometimes sell it to my friends and other people over the Internet. CDs are becoming too expensive, so I'm looking for a cheaper way to store more illegal content for less money. Thanks!!!!"

That's what I got out of it (coming from someone who used to be pretty involved with a distribution site for illegal software, and now has current and valid licenses for every MS product that I use)

You know what they say about reformed whores... (0, Flamebait)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665286)

They're the worst kind.

Fuck you very much for your hipocrisy.
Were you too stupid not to get caught, or what?

Re:You know what they say about reformed whores... (1)

man_ls (248470) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665332)

Too stupid not to get caught?

Heh. No. I got out of it about 3 years before they started enforcing penalties.

It's called, I started making money, joined a professional organization with a code of ethics, and found it to be both (1) not difficult and (2) beneficial to follow it.

Re:Cliffnotes (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665302)

you name it, I've pirated it

Sculpture? Architecture? Chip masks? Boat hull designs?

Cut him some slack. (2, Funny)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665909)

For real. He's probably a college student, like I was a few years ago. Despite smoking pot, drinking, skipping class, and cramming for tests, eventually you find that there's still plenty of time left in the day to download shit. So that's what you do with the rest of your time. (Hell, it's not like you've got a job up there and can pay for things all the time.) You think 500GB RAID arrays grow on trees? This guy just cashed in his empties and is looking for an affordable way to keep his .RARs of Leisure Suit Larry and his Return of the King screener online.

And what's wrong with that?

- A.P.

Re:Cut him some slack. (1)

man_ls (248470) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665941)

Speaking of 500GB RAID arrays, I just picked up 2 of them (RAID 6) for $110 total. StorageTek 9393-600 DASD/SVA.

Eh, if he's a college student, then while it's still not legal or acceptable, it's slightly more understandable. There aren't many college students who can afford to purchase copies of 2003 Enterprise Server and the latest Office suit.

Re:Cut him some slack. (1)

toast0 (63707) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666118)

my school's bookstore routinely got copies of office xp for $15... that's really not that expensive and it's not the shity office for teachers and students that has just word and excel.

Re:Cut him some slack. (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#7677714)

Where did you get 2 StorageTek 9393-600's for 55.00 each? That is, if you don't mind me asking.

Re:Cut him some slack. (1)

man_ls (248470) | more than 10 years ago | (#7678656)

Local surplus auction...wanna buy one of them? e-mail me.

Re:Cliffnotes (1)

thdexter (239625) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666602)

He didn't want to get rid of his CDs, he wanted to get a CD jukebox for mass storage.

I'd had a won copy of Microsoft Windows XP, and a cracked copy of Office XP (from a 30-day trial version they sent me), but I've since migrated to FreeBSD, which didn't cost me a fuckload for shitty broken pieces of crap.

CD Organizer, slot load DVD-ROM and some hackin (1)

Judg3 (88435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665339)

First, go pick up this CD organizer [tigerdirect.com] . Holds 100 CDs/DVDs and runs $50. Connects via USB.
Now run out and spend $20 or so on a slotload DVD-Rom. Now all you have to do is work a little hack magic to place the slotload DVD-ROM where the CD/DVD ejects, and there's your jukebox.
It's slow, not very hightech, but it'll get the job done and run you $70 or so each.
I have planned on doing this for quite some time, just haven't had the time to sit and devote to it yet. Be a nice little hack though.

Re:CD Organizer, slot load DVD-ROM and some hackin (1)

NextGen (98789) | more than 10 years ago | (#7668695)

That one's cool, and there's another one (a bit more expensive) that I've seen. KDS USA's CD Organizer [kdsusa.com] . Buy.com has it [buy.com] for about $90. It's got a tower form factor, but it only holds 75 CDs. The one Judg3 recommended seems to be a bit more cost effective.

Yeah, it's this new fangled device... (1)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665794)

... called a hard drive. Cutting-edge stuff, so you may be spending a little more than $400. Well worth it and slightly faster than CDs.

Legos (1)

Maskirovka (255712) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665930)

You could probably coble something together with a lego mindstorms, a barcode scanner, and a mysql database for $400. Assuming you have loads of free time on your hands. Otherwise, buy a 300gb maxtor hd and call it good.

CD Carousels (0)

almightyjustin (518967) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666028)

Get two 150-disc CD carousels, available here [cyberguys.com] or here [cyberguys.com] in the $100 range. Haven't used one myself but looks like the kind of thing you're looking for.

Re:CD Carousels (1)

extra88 (1003) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666357)

Uh, you realize those don't actually read the discs, right? They just spit the disc you want out. The USB connection is so you can use a database to keep track of which disc is in which slot and to have the computer send the command to spit out the correct disc. Or you have a piece of paper with them written down and you punch in the correct number on the keypad. This is like the "Dacal CD Library" someone else posted.

He might like to have these, if he can't find what he really wants, but having to use a fleshy arm vs. a mechanical arm to put the disc in the drive is a definite drawback.

RAID boxen... (2, Insightful)

Zarf (5735) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666544)

you should consider a "network attached storage" solution or a simple IDE RAID solution ... you could go all spiffy and do 300GB hard-drives in a RAID adding more drives as you need more space. You could put this on your home network in it's own system that would be independent of your "workstation."

OR, you could simply reduce the amount of stuff you keep around. I doubt you really own/use more than a few spindels of stuff. If you had a terabyte raid of your own and managed what you kept on it... keeping only what you need to survive... I'd be impressed if you used the whole thing. How much Music, Movies, and Porn does one person really need?

Maybe I'm talking to the wrong crowd.

Warez 12 Step (1)

bhima (46039) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666627)

OK, so this guy is definitely a candidate for some sort of 12 step program (I'm not sure if it's warez or pr0n) but there is a serious question lurking under it all. How do you deal large amounts of back up data if you don't have routine access to a fortune 500 class data center? RAID doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling of safety given the failure rate of IDE drives. SCSI is stupid expensive per gigabyte for the crap he is storing. CD's lack the storage capacity and I've heard anecdotes of failure there. I am not aware of any long term performance data on DVD recordable media (Please do not point me to the manufactures, I don't believe them any more!). And media and file format obsolescence is starting to concern me, as I just went through some of our archives here at work: McBravo!? What ever happened to that app?

So how do you deal with say 50 times 12 gigabyte chunks or 100 times 1 gigabyte chunks of data which is not particularly valuable but would be expensive and time consuming if you had to recreate it.

Re:Warez 12 Step (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | more than 10 years ago | (#7676637)

So how do you deal with say 50 times 12 gigabyte chunks or 100 times 1 gigabyte chunks of data which is not particularly valuable but would be expensive and time consuming if you had to recreate it.

Burn it to DVD-R, adding recovery data using QuickPar [sourceforge.net] . That'll take 33 DVD-Rs.

For the truly paranoid, setup a 250Gb RAID1 box with an attached USB 250Gb backup drive in a corner and keep copies of the DVDs on it. (Or even multiple external USB drives where you rotate the drives online once per week.)

Why hard drives aren't popular for this: (3, Informative)

jago25_98 (566531) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666807)

- I think the main reasons people don't like to buy a bigger hard drive are:
- newer interfaces are out there "But I'd be missing out on SATA"
- no space for a new drive so wastage of old drive
- new big hard drive not properly delt with because it's not using the best hardware setup; i.e. it's own DMA cable/slot
p.s:
- own video footage could be a legitamate use
- the issue will probably continue as removable media formats change

- I really don't like the idea of having all my eggs in one basket like you do ith a hard drive. There has been times when I've switched on after a powercut only to find the drive controller no longer works and the only option is to send it off for data recovery; not worth the money since I'm skint but also a great shame to lose.

- Given what I've experienced with hard drives I hate them, they die after 4 or 5 years no matter what you do.
- I just don't trust them. I wouldn't mind them being so unreliable if there was some way to get at the data that doesn't cost company prices
- with CDs even if the metal costing peels off (like I have seen) you can usually still read parts. Unfortunately I'm not aware of a way to read cds in userspace other than windows so a reboot is needed when the kernel freezes...

In summary I suppose satisfactory technology just isn't there.

Re:Why hard drives aren't popular for this: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7672044)

Sure, your own video footage would be legitimate use, but why would someone be downloading their own video footage off of Usenet?

Maybe Peter Jackson likes grabbing those screener copies of LotR so he has something to watch on his home PC, but I doubt it.

Software Solution (1)

managementboy (223451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7667934)

How about you use Software instead of Hardware...? I use http://nick.spurious.biz/naamah/ for my MP3 CDs... http://videodb.sourceforge.net/ for my dvds Print numbers on the CDs and put them in a cupboard. works for me

Pathetic (1)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 10 years ago | (#7668175)

all you people saying "Just get an IDE hard drive" aren't listening to the poster. He doesn't want that.

I have 780G of space and it's not enough. Not nearly enough. I would need closer to 4 terabytes, and I have better things to spend my money on. Not to mention I would need about 20 hard drives. How many computers do I need for that?

If I could get a dvd-rom changer for $400, I'd do it.

I had one on my 486... (1)

Anztac (322182) | more than 10 years ago | (#7668602)

Back when I had a 486 I had a 6 disc changer from pioneer... it was a cool concept, the only real problem was that it had to tell the OS what every CD was, so it made 6 drives. Then periodically the Windows 95 would go through checking each one (for some reason) so if the CD was being used or not it'd cycle through removing one disc, and loading the next, reading a little bit, and putting it back, etc, for all 6. I'd hope they've figured out better methods if these type of devices exsist now, the same problems with 100+ cds would be impossible!

Re:I had one on my 486... (1)

ngoy (551435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7680413)

My dad's autoshop had the same thing for the Mitchell car repair manuals. It started fitting into one 6 disc cartridge. Then it grew to 2 cartridges. Now, the whole system is 17 CD's! You know what a pain in the ass it is to keep cartridges or cd's clean in an autoshop? Especially when the tech has to switch the cartridges to get to the correct year/make/model? ngoy

Options... (2, Insightful)

cr0sh (43134) | more than 10 years ago | (#7669250)

As numerous others have pointed out, you have many options. Personally, I like the "hack an audio jukebox" and "hack the USB jukebox" options. For ease, the USB one would probably be it. As you have probably noted already (and others here have as well), the cost for real jukebox cdrom systems are *insane*, considering what is really in them.

Why is this?

Well, they aren't priced for you! You see, a successful business doesn't offer just the lowest price on a product, but the lowest price on the product that the market will bear. Apparently, businesses (as a market) are *incredibly stupid*, and will bear the cost of multi-thousand dollar equipment that is probably produced for sub-$500 per unit (one can easily speculate as to the why of this, there are many possible, and probably interrelated, reasons).

Anyhow - you won't be spending this kind of money - so what about other options?

I have a good one: organize your disks and catalog them by a serial number in a database of some sort, and put the disks into Case Logic bindersheets in cheap binders. Store the binders (number the binders, too) on a bookshelf. Build the database so that you have some meta information, the cd number, and the binder number. Select on the meta, return the two numbers (maybe even a page number if you want), and you should be able to easily find the disk you want.

Not high-tech, not on-line, but fairly cheap, and easily expandable and resusable in the future.

The other thing to do: realize that most of your data is worthless. Yeah, MP3s, gamez, warez, pr0nz, whatever - it is worthless. If you want to justify the time/money/etc for a real cdrom/dvd jukebox or hard drive archive solution, then you need worthy data! This is one reason why businesses are willing to spend the money - because the data on those machines is their business. So start making data. Create movies, produce music, express artwork! You only have in front of you the most astounding machine mankind has EVER made!. That, and the rest of your life. Think of what Da Vinci made and left of his life - imagine if he had a computer!

What is stopping you?

Re:Options... (1)

ngoy (551435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7680495)

>the most astounding machine mankind has EVER made!.
>That, and the rest of your life. Think of what Da Vinci made and left of his life -
>imagine if he had a computer!
>What is stopping you?

Two kids, one wife, four dogs. Although four wives, one kid, and two dogs could work also. Seriously though, I have other hobbies, including woodworking, electronics (although not on the scale to allow me to make a robotic changer as some have suggested), photography, etc... My next big thing to buy is a desktop cnc mill such as the one here [maxnc.com] . But everything costs money. Although I did trade my father a working 27" tv for his Mitsubishi 60" which I think only has to get degaussed. But he didn't want to spend the money so free 60" tv for me. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't. ngoy

Two Words (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 10 years ago | (#7669606)

Lego Mindstorms!
Or this http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/changer.html
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