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Real Gun Pulled At Counter-Strike Tournament

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the real-life-frag-bad dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 355

Audiovore writes "Got Frag? has a press release and interview with the president of Cyber X Gaming about an event which took place after a Counter-Strike LAN gaming qualifier in Los Angeles at the weekend. Apparently, two guys from separate teams got in a fight outside, and when staff tried to break it up one of the participants went to his car, got a gun, and pointed it at the head of a staff member (who happened to be the son of the CXG president.) His team-mates then 'encouraged the person with the gun to fire', although the situation was then calmed down and the remainder of the event was cancelled."

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Oh man.... (3, Insightful)

hookedup (630460) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665363)


Now this is guaranteed be used as ammo (bad pun) for all kinds of 'family' and 'parent' groups all over the place.

Re:Oh man.... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665410)

Did it ever occur to you that maybe those groups (although often led by idiots, admittedly), may actually have a valid point and maybe these games everyone is so fanatical about really do encourage violence?

Oh, no. That's not possible. We're all too smart for that. Especially here on /., where we're much better at mechanical skills than we are at having even the vaguest notion of how human emotions work.

Re:Oh man.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665488)

Did it ever occur to you that maybe those groups (although often led by idiots, admittedly), may actually have a valid point and maybe these games everyone is so fanatical about really do encourage violence?

Oh, no. That's not possible. We're all too smart for that. Especially here on /., where we're much better at mechanical skills than we are at having even the vaguest notion of how human emotions work.


Notice how any posts that disagree with what most people want to hear (like this one) are immediately modded to troll? I guess people here can't deal with someone pointing out they might be wrong (if you don't believe me, post something positive about Microsoft in a discussion and see how quickly it gets modded down).

Re:Oh man.... (0)

Bozzio (183974) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665525)

parent rated as Troll???

This guy is simply expressing an opinion. Yes, it isn't the most popular opinion, but it's still valid. As for his use of sarcasm.. sure it might not help his point, but it's tame compared to most of the posts we see on slashdot.

I really can't see how the above comment can be justly called a Troll, but that's just my opinion.

Re:Oh man.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665541)

I'll correct this before everyone jumps on it.. I meant to write: "No, it isn't the most popular opinion, but it's still valid."

Re:Oh man.... (4, Insightful)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665753)

Did it ever occur to you that maybe those groups (although often led by idiots, admittedly), may actually have a valid point and maybe these games everyone is so fanatical about really do encourage violence?

You know, until I read this piece, I'd have disagreed with you. I don't believe the guy who went and got the gun is evidence that FPS games encourage violence. (A pro gun society is what has led to that in his case.) What I DO think is good evidence is his teammates egging him to pull the trigger! I mean what the FUCK?! Egging someone on to commit murder...

Never thought my opinion would change on this issue, but it has.

Re:Oh man.... (3, Funny)

Fred IV (587429) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666022)

I gave someone a bloddy nose with a Bible once, outside of a church. (Vacation Bible School and I did not get along). Does that mean that Bible Study causes violence too?

Idiots will do what idiots do. The vast majority of gamers will never hurt anyone, much less carry a gun around "just in case".

When all, most, or even a tenth of gamers start acting violently, maybe I'll consider that there's some kind of relationship between gaming and violence.

- FIV

Re:Oh man.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665432)

Very apropos .sig you've got there.

Re:Oh man.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665459)

Just shoot all families and parent groups then they won't be able to use this as ammo.

Re:Oh man.... (5, Interesting)

KanshuShintai (694567) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665494)

Except that the same kinds of things happen outside of sports events when someone's team loses (even for highschool games, where parents attack each other), and they don't complain about that (much). They'd have to shut them down first, since the people running samller video gaming events can still point fingers at the bigger guys. And we know that sports games are not about to be cancled because of some 'family' or 'parent' groups, because there is too much profit from them.

Re:Oh man.... (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665514)

Yeah. It's not like there has ever been violence or shootings after football, soccer, baseball, lacross, (insert sport here) games; especially when there is a monetary prize involved (like here). It's only VIDEO games that cause a few nut-jobs to become violent. It's couldn't possibly be the violent PERSON'S fault.

It's pathetically sad that your statement is true.

Re:Oh man.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665867)

It also sucks that your entire post is a word for word cliche that's been uttered about 10 gabillion times.

Sports not plagued by shootings: (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7666012)

Synchronized swiming.
Rythmic gymnatics.
Cricket.
Polo.
Lumberjack games.
Bobsleding
Luge
Cross country skiing
speedwalking

"Family" groups (4, Insightful)

Otter (3800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665787)

Actually, I thought the CXG guy came across as really touchingly fatherly -- it reminded me of the father-and-son team who tried to help Homer Simpson -- which probably means I should spend more time interacting with my own family and less time watching TV.

The real Grade A morons here, by the way, have to be the teammates encouraging the other Grade A moron with the gun to fire...

The American Response (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665365)

Clearly the problem is the game, which makes people violent. Not in the fact that this particular lunatic owns, and is ready to point a gun at somebody's head.

Re:The American Response (3, Insightful)

Dr. Bent (533421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665655)

Not in the fact that this particular lunatic owns, and is ready to point a gun at somebody's head.

So if he has just smashed his head in with a baseball bat, that would be better? Or perhaps the problem is that things that can be used to kill (cars, rat poison, blenders, etc.) can be bought by anyone in the US, including lunatics and...heaven forbid...gamers.

All types of political groups will try to spin this story to shift blame to whatever it is they're trying to ban. Video games, guns, violent movies, trench coats, whatever. The fact of the matter is that the blame lies with one and only one person...the idiot who decided to use a gun to win an argument.

Re:The American Response (4, Insightful)

AtaruMoroboshi (522293) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665666)

...you can't just hold a bat to someone's head and have a slight change in finger pressure kill them.

Re:The American Response (1)

Dr. Bent (533421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665675)

True, but then again, a bat doesn't have a safety...

Re:The American Response (2, Funny)

cgenman (325138) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665695)

The safety is the three feet between you and the guy with the bat. That space should be preferably filled with a door.

Re:The American Response (1)

Dr. Bent (533421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665734)

Well preferably, it would be filled with a brick wall, but it doesn't always work out that way. And if it wasn't bat, it could have just as easily been a car. And three feet (including the door) won't protect you from that.

Re:The American Response (1)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665766)

Would if it was a thick enough door...

Re:The American Response (1)

Dr. Bent (533421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665813)

It would probably also stop the bullet. This isn't an AK-47 we're taking about...

Re:The American Response (3, Insightful)

thelexx (237096) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665696)

If the game did not cause the fool to lose it, please explain to me exactly how a gun did. Personal responsibility can't be legislated into people. And I resent the implication that because SOME people are emotional retards who cannot handle the responsibility of owning a firearm, NOBODY should be allowed to. Australia disarmed their population, check out their crime stats before and after. (Here's a start: http://www.ssaa.org.au/buybackindex.html)

Have some quotes to think on:

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -St. Augustine

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

"......Certainly, the intrinsic value of life and the duty to love oneself no less than others are the basis of a true right to self-defense ... legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the State. Unfortunately, it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose actions brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason." -Pope John Paul II, Encyclical Letter from 1995, EVANGELIUM VITAE

"When the strong man fully armed guardeth his own court, his goods are in peace." -Jesus Christ [Luke 11:21.6]

"But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." -Jesus Christ [Luke 22:36]

"Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." -Mohatma Gandhi

Re:The American Response (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665883)

"There were 36 homicides last night. 480 sexual assaults. 3411 robberies. 3685 aggravated assaults, all at gun point. And if anyone thinks those crimes could have been prevented if the victims themselves had been carrying guns, I only remind that the President of the United States was shot last night while surrounded by the best trained armed guards in the history of the world." - C.J. Cregg

Re:The American Response (5, Insightful)

StocDred (691816) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665902)

Figures supplied by the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia may not be the most unbiased source of information on gun control.

Even if we do accept those numbers as true, the number of murders pre-gun buyback (99 in 1996) is still more than the number of murders in the most recent year shown (49 in 2001). Why isn't that shown to be a happy side effect of the buyback program?

Answer: because it's all in how you spin it. One little table and a bunch of out-of-context quotes do not an argument make.

And, at the risk of clouding all further rational discussion, do you really think that Jesus (if he wasn't fictional) had any notion of how powerful the weapons of the future would be? The difference between a sword and a gun is incredible, which makes quotes dealing with swords-and-violence not exactly comparable to the modern situation of guns-and-violence. Heck, our founding fathers couldn't even fathom the high-powered, super-accurate, full-automatic weapons of today.

Re:The American Response (1)

MiceHead (723398) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665912)

"But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." -Jesus Christ [Luke 22:36]

"Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." -Mohatma Gandhi

"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan


I realize that the last quote is part of your .sig, but you had me wondering for a minute...

Way to take out of context. (2, Interesting)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665998)

""Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." -Mohatma Gandhi"

Violence is cowardice. Cowardice is beating up people who are merely disagreeing. Cowardice is pulling a gun on someone because you disagree.

Re:The American Response (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665715)

I think a lot of it is the general social atmosphere of today. It's the game, its television, it's parenting, the public school systems are falling apart, it's the fact that neighbors ever talk to each other anymore. There is no more community. Just people watching each other suspiciously... just like the media nad the government wants. So we don't turn our suspicions toward them.

Re:The American Response (1)

hlee (518174) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665758)

Cars cause road rage - which has demonstrable costs. This is proof that cars make people violent. Hell, I've been a victim of a nasty incident myself but the idea of banning cars is ludicrous even though cars cause more injuries and deaths a year than just about everything.

There are always going to be bloody idiots around.

Here we go again (0, Redundant)

kaellinn18 (707759) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665369)

Video games blamed for violence in 5, 4, 3, 2...

This is easy (-1, Flamebait)

whoda (569082) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665388)


you stupid fucks.

FP! (-1, Offtopic)

mshiltonj (220311) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665390)

FP! Did I get it? Did I get it?

Re:FP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665394)

No.

Definately NOT a Surprise (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665393)

I'm sure this will get modded to troll immediately, since I'm saying something most /.ers don't want to hear, but this is really something to be expected.

People sit and spend days and days playing games like this where they learn to shoot at almost anything that might be a threat. Just like an athlete that practices for years to hone their reflexes so they don't have to think about actions, but just do -- or like a musician that practices for years so their skills are sharp -- gamers teach themselves to solve problems with violence and to use weapons quickly and easily.

So it's no wonder one of them decides that's the best way to solve their problem and that the others around actually egg him on to shot another human being.

People practice basketball for years to develop skills and be able to react without thinking. Musicians practice for years to learn how to use their instruments without having to think about what they do. In both cases, people are training their neurons by repeated action. And somehow we don't think practicing using a gun day after day doesn't do the same thing?

Get real. Violence leads to more violence, even if it starts with fantasy violence.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (4, Interesting)

kaellinn18 (707759) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665419)

Soldiers practice using weapons everyday so they can solve problems with violence, yet our streets aren't overrun with platoons of soldiers shooting civilians. It's used as a last resort. Don't be stupid.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665465)

yet our streets aren't overrun with platoons of soldiers shooting civilians

No. We've sent them to Iraq under the pretense of self-defense (notice how Bush and Rumsfield said, MANY TIMES, they knew exactly where the WMDs were, but wouldn't tell the UN and can't find any trace of them now?), where they're claiming to kill 54 insurgents when the locals say they kill 8 citizens.

Oh, that's right. It's a last resort. Although there was no proof they actually posed a threat. But they were probably as big a threat to us as Grenada, Panama, and North Vietnam.

But then, that doesn't count, does it? We are now "one nation, under God," so whatever we do, it is just and righteous and we shouldn't question it because we are the good guys and that means whatever we do, it has to be right, doesn't it?

Oh, and you might want to search recent news archives. I saw a few reports about six months ago about one base in particular where there was a high number of incidences of soldiers killing their wives in response to stress.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665795)

I read that article too. There's also, in general, around military bases, a higher number of assaults that would normally be expected.

Despite my problems with the US war machine, the military are taught to kill with some degree of thought. All FPS will teach the morally and mentally susceptible (like the guys asshole teammates eggings him on to pull the trigger and murder someone) is to kill with impunity.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (5, Insightful)

Rewtie (552738) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665423)

You don't have to play video games to be a 'tard who points a gun at someone's head. What about the team mates encouraging him? That's the more worrisome part to me. Any fool can shoot someone.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (4, Interesting)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665591)

"What about the team mates encouraging him? That's the more worrisome part to me."

Not much different from your typical high school students egging on a fistfight. Of course, nobody bothered to take notice of situations like this until students started to point the guns at each other instead of themselves.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

Rewtie (552738) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665615)

I was in my share of fights in highschool. I fail to make the connection between a fistfight and pointing a gun to someone's head... while I do understand the crowd/mob mentality, I don't understand why they would want a person to take another persons life... especially when it's the son of the guy fronting the cash for the event.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

Micro$will (592938) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665703)

I fail to make the connection between a fistfight and pointing a gun to someone's head

The problem is some kids are so afraid of getting their ass kicked they need something to bring them comfort. Its even worse if they already got their ass kicked, they feel the need to save face by killing the person that made them look like the pussy they are.

That's the ENCOURAGING part. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665893)

He's been practicing twitching, and is obviously very good at it if he spends the time to go to such an event. Just got done turning his nervous system over to the act-then think mode, with all the hormones from the activity itself, with the additional stress of some percieved inequity and resulting REAL fight. He goes to his car, and escalates things right to the cliff by commiting a violent felony from which there is no longer a way to escape without consequences. Then there is the peer pressure, from people he knows, likes, and probably respects and trusts more than most!

He still doesn't shoot!?

Everything but that small voice inside his head was screaming for a very different outcome. In many ways it isn't a surprise; it's a bonafide wonder the small voice won out.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

AnotherFreakboy (730662) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665433)

C'mon, Pulling a gun is nothing like pointing a mouse at someone. If people could learn skills by playing computer games (as opposed to simulations) everyone would be able to drive like a prop from playing too much Need for Speed.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665475)

You're right, pointing a gun and pointing a mouse are two different actions, but learning to use a weapon as a response to the flight-or-fight reaction, instead of learning constructive ways to solve a problem is very much the kind of reflex these games teach.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (2, Insightful)

Lshmael (603746) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665463)

This theory makes no logical sense. Yes, if I were to throw a ball at the head of a professional basketball player, he would probably respond by catching it before it hit his head.

But if I threw the same ball at a guy who played NBA Live or similar themed video games all of the time, he would be unlikely to "use his reflexes" to catch the ball. Instead, you would hear a crunch as his nose and/or glasses broke.

I can spend years of my life pointing and clicking at terrorists onscreen. However, if I got into a street fight, I would not be able to reflexibly point and click my opponents away. If the people in this incident were playing, say, Duck Hunt, you *might* have a point.

The same incident could have easily happened at a basketball tournament, a football game, or any other competitive event.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665523)

It does make sense. The training applies to more than just the physical action. It also applies to how we think -- do we stop and think out the situation, or do we learn a quick knee-jerk reaction? Do we deal with a conflict or threat calmly and logically, or do we automatically take the strongest reaction possible? I think the fact that the original post was modded to troll in 5 minutes is a good example. It makes a valid point. Most of us may disagree with it, but that's no reason to mod it to troll -- unless someone with mod points can't accept or doesn't want to acknowldge that there are other points of view that just might be right.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (2, Insightful)

Lshmael (603746) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665662)

My "calm and logical" thoughts make me think that according to that reasoning, all people who are trained to react quickly (whether they be police officers, soldiers, video gamers, or even players of certain card games) would be more violent. As I do not believe this to be the case, it must be assumed that the original poster (not sure if this person is the same as the parent or not) was unfairly singling out video game players.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665878)

As I do not believe this to be the case

That and a buck won't even get you a cup of coffee.

You can believe all you want. That won't change whether it is or isn't true.

I Agree With You 100% (1)

think_geeky (731012) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665915)

You're opinion is accurate, short, and to the point...well done (you helped change my opinion).

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

elveu (573261) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665520)

playing a game where you kill simulated people is significantly diffrent to honing your skills to kill. while playing games like counter strike may have impackted on the individuals violent reactions i am sure there are many more influences that contributed more to the individuals violent reactions. games may impact upon us but they are not solely capable of distorting a mind to such an extent.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665521)

I'd like to think I wouldn't go get a gun to solve a simple problem that most likely didn't even need to have a fist involved. That's really easy to say because I don't own a gun. However, I remember playing midtown madness for about 4 hours straight one night a few years back and took a break. I left the house in my car to go get a bite to eat and quickly found myself stuck in game mode. I caught myself driving very aggressively and having to try to stop at lights and stop signs. No, I didn't go up on the sidewalks and hit people or newspaper stands. Perhaps I am a retard, perhaps it is the constant repetition of playing the game. I don't know. All I know is that repetitive game playing has a profound affect on my mental state. I remember playing Diablo for about 10 hours in a row and I couldn't sleep because I kept dreaming about killing more creatures and collecting gold, over and over again and immediately waking up. Who knows how someone else is going to react to something similar?

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

TechnoPops (590791) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665554)

Just want to point out that this happened at a COUNTER-STRIKE tournament. It seems to me that the individual is to blame in this case, because this is a game where you should be learning how to take down terrorists, not take down some random person who happens to piss you off.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

Neop2Lemus (683727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665604)

No, I'm sorry, I have to disagree.

If you've ever been in a heated argument and the other guy starts threatening you with physical violence then all your instinctive alarms go off and you begin to see red. Thats just where violence begins and its best at that point to keep keeping your cool and speak quietly and slowly even if the other jackass isn't.

At least for me, there is a world-of-difference between that terrifying adrenaline rush caused by the possibility of actual violence and the violence in games. Two totally differenct worlds.

That said, angry lunatics shouldn't have easy access to guns, like being allowed to keep them in the back of their cars.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665638)

"Get real. Violence leads to more violence, even if it starts with fantasy violence. "

How often do baseball players take a swing at people with their bat?

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1, Insightful)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665657)

"People sit and spend days and days playing games like this where they learn to shoot at almost anything that might be a threat. Just like an athlete that practices for years to hone their reflexes so they don't have to think about actions, but just do -- or like a musician that practices for years so their skills are sharp -- gamers teach themselves to solve problems with violence and to use weapons quickly and easily."

Except, by your theory, these idiots wouldn't even know how to load a real firearm ("Where's the 'reload' key?") and have no idea what the phrases "single action" and "half action" mean ("Why doesn't it do anything when I press the 'fire' button?"). And even if they did understand what those phrases mean, they should be more likely to accidentally safe the gun instead of arming it ("I pulled the hammer back until I felt it click...").

Of course, they'd have a hard time buying a gun with those felony convictions they racked up driving the way they learned from Need for Speed...

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (1)

Babbster (107076) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665979)

Seriously, what does "half action" mean? I know about single- and double-action, but have never heard of half.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665667)

Ill make it a point to kill you with a fucking knife so the hippy communist scum that you are will try to get knives banned. Then ill kill you with piano wire, a garrot, a brick, a nail gun, a hammer....

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (3, Interesting)

obsid1an (665888) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665693)

So with that logic, I think I will go tryout for the Green Bay Packers because I rule at Madden 2004.

Seriously dude, get real. You've obviously never played any sort of FPS type of game so you don't understand that it's not about the shooting. That part gets old soon. It is about the people. It's about using teamwork to try to accomplish your goal. It's about winning. The majority of gamers are in clans because of that. Gaming is not about just about shooting people, it's much like any other team game.

Also, look at other sports like hockey, baseball, football, hell pretty much any. There are far more injuries in those games due to fights between players than there ever has been with gaming.

This incident while trajic, hardly reflects gaming as a whole. There are 1000s of lans happening both big and small, and every single one I have been to has been filled with tons of great and non-homocidal people. I can't say that about the baseball games I have seen.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (2, Insightful)

Phleg (523632) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665707)

Actually, according to your reasoning, the reaction this person would have had would be to challenge the staff member to a Counter-Strike duel.

Your logic is extremely faulty. You assert that training in sports causes your actions in that sport to become reflex, and training in a musical instrument causes you to become better, but then that training to have a twitch-reflex in moving a mouse at a target trains you to pull a gun on a human being. Irregardless of the validity of the conclusion you've reached, this is a complete nonsequitur.

Re:Definately NOT a Surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665995)

There might be a case to be made that it makes pulling the trigger cheaper. That's the theory the army operates under by training people to fire and man shaped silouttes. Especially given how little information we need to understand and percieve what is human or has a face.. One could also make the case that all that shooting at people is what saved they guys life. It's not unheard of for people to get shot involving themselves in what people consider a private battle. (Domestic disturbance calls are dangerous)

All those hours of pulling the virtual trigger, might have afforded him that moment in his head to decide that the staff member wasn't exactly "the enemy," and come to a rational conclusion. After all, he could afford the milliseconds of meditation, his reflexes would provide the cushion to decide to pull the trigger later if he needed too.

If he didn't play these games, maybe that precious moment would have siezed by his endocrine system screaming, "THIS IS IT! SQUEEZE NOW!" If he was more threatened (by whatever) and less able to understand the staff members signals. Who knows, he might have gone into a dissociative episode (which is an odd experience) at which point the headline's verb would be considerably more tragic, and breaking news nation wide. Hopefully, they'll send him to counseling as part of his sentence and study some of what comes out of that.

what a loser (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665409)

if you take games this seriously, theres something that wrong with you

Scapel please... (5, Funny)

gregoryj (648088) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665425)

Another reason for forced sterilization... oh wait, these guys were already at a gaming convention.

Welcome to the American Way (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665439)

So what? This sort of behaviour is common in the States, nothing new to see here, move along now. Seriously though, joe sixpack in America is used to this sort of behaviour, pulling a gun and being fully ready to splatter someones brains across the pavement is nothing out of the ordinary. Theres an excellent Documentary about this behaviour called "Bowling for Columbine", its an interesting doco and a must see for anyone with at least half a brain.

Re:Welcome to the American Way (1)

gregoryj (648088) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665478)

I guess I am not Joe sixpack. I will admit this is becoming more common-place but I wouldnt say this is ordinary by any means. We didnt all of a sudden have a gun problem. Right to bear arms has been around since day 1. I wonder how many people died during a croquet game gone bad? The problem lies elsewhere. Maybe its all those slacker parents... who knows. Bowling for Columbine... Yes, half a brain would be necessary.

Re:Welcome to the American Way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665532)

Example: See "President G. W. Bush" >:)

Re:Welcome to the American Way (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665926)

Hey, way to generalize man... I manage a coffee shop and have been a very gentle person most of my life. (I was kinda mean to my younger brother until around 17 when I realized how lame it was.)

I resent your comments and if I ever see you in person I'm gonna take a claw hammer and...

I mean... have a nice day!

Re:Welcome to the American Way (2, Insightful)

mohaine (62567) | more than 10 years ago | (#7666002)

Get a clue. I have lived in the states my whole life(30 years), and have NEVER seen a gun pulled in a violent maner.

Re:Welcome to the American Way (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7666011)

british people are so bitter (still) about losing wars and needing americans to protect them that they will jump at any chance to badmouth america. stop being so snotty.

The CS Crowd (5, Interesting)

hattmoward (695554) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665456)

Personally -- my opinion, not stated as fact -- I don't really like the people who play CS in general these days. They are complete assholes, they steal my shit when I'm hosting/visiting a LAN party, and are generally very violent, aggressive, and standoffish. There are some good players out there, but they're getting sparse. Of course, this is slashdot, and my post is +5, Obvious... We certainly have our share of idiots here! :) It seems to happen to online communities as more people concentrate in them... :/ Sad, really. BTW, has anyone seen those yoda doll trolls? So insane, they're completely hilarious... frickin morons! :)

Re:The CS Crowd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665720)

Most Definitely, the MAJORITY of people now playing CS are nothing but trailer trash red necks. If you don't believe me, just load up roger wilco and log into an open channel or two and listen to them go. They should be cast out from the umbrella that surrounds the rest of us gamers. Let those assholes die in the cold.

Come On.... (5, Insightful)

Sangloth (664575) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665476)

This could just as easily have been a Football game, it just wouldn't have garnered this attention. I remember 3 years ago they pre-emptively tear gassed students at the CU - CSU football game to prevent a riot. When the police were asked for justification, they cited the riots that had happened every year for the previous 5 years.
For that matter, we tend to have some kind of riot whenever the Av's Hockey team loses.

The actions of a single individual don't define a group.

Sangloth
I'd appreciate any comment with a logical basis...it doesn't even have to agree with me.

Games DON'T Cause Violence! (5, Funny)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665487)

This proves it! Once and for all! Videogames DON'T cause violence...

It's the pavement!

Nothing happened untill they went OUTSIDE, to the PARKING LOT, which has PAVEMENT! Let's look at the facts. Nearly EVERY drive-by shooting ever has been within 5 feet of pavement. Most gang violence in urban areas is near pavement!

It's time to do something about this pavement industry that's causing EPIDEMICS of violence in this country. Back in revolutionary times (when there was no pavement) things like drive-by shootings and gang violence didn't happen! I defy someone to find a whole in my logic!

Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!

Re:Games DON'T Cause Violence! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665516)

I know you're joking, but you shouldn't have asked people to point out holes in your logic. How about: you've not demonstrated causality!

Re:Games DON'T Cause Violence! (2, Interesting)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665701)

How about: you've not demonstrated causality!

Thats ironic, because neither have all the "Videogames are teh bad!" people ;)

Re:Games DON'T Cause Violence! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665549)

oh my, you're right. I could only find a half in your logic...

RTFA (5, Insightful)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665517)

From the article:
The police do have the names of the players and teams associated with the actions and we assume that this will reach a quick conclusion. I can tell everyone that the person that pulled the gun was not part of the BZ team, rather, friends of a certain member of that team.

I live in a country where people have riots and burn cars because their basketball team loses. Heck, sometimes when their team wins. No one ever blames the violence on basketball. Some nutcase friend of player pulls a gun and it's counter-strike's fault?

Re:RTFA (1)

gregoryj (648088) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665565)

Makes me want to find that guy and pull a gun on him. Hope my friends are around to encourage my rational decision.

Re:RTFA (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665738)

"I can tell everyone that the person that pulled the gun was not part of the BZ team, rather, friends of a certain member of that team.

Some nutcase friend of player pulls a gun and it's counter-strike's fault?"


Did he know the name of this person? If not, did he know the name of their friend the player? Most importantly, has this information passed on to the police?

If the group is truly "zero tolerance" as they claim to be, complaints and sanctions wouldn't stop outside the building's walls. They claim that they "will seek civil and criminal action against those who initiate actions viewed to be detrimental to the well being of others," so where is the link to the police blotter report with the perpetrator's name, reason for arrest and bail hearing date? You don't just ban them from playing a match again, you post the guy's picture, the details of his trial, and exactly how long the guy is spending in jail with a note that says "This could be you!" Wal-Mart does this to shoplifters, and this guy pulled a gun!

Guns don't kill people, idiotic slaps to the wrists kill people. And by not following up on this as rabidly as they should, CXG is showing that they themselves believe that it was their games that were responsible for this guy's actions. It makes one wonder just what CXG thinks of their customers' hobbies as well as their well-being. What they should be doing is showing exactly what the gaming community thinks of this behavior. Or do they think Lieberman is right?

Re:RTFA (1)

TC (WC) (459050) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665965)

Did he know the name of this person? If not, did he know the name of their friend the player? Most importantly, has this information passed on to the police?

It's neat how the sentence before the one you quoted was:

The police do have the names of the players and teams associated with the actions and we assume that this will reach a quick conclusion.

Scary in a way (1)

xQuarkDS9x (646166) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665526)

This is scary in a way that someone felt the need to go and actually SHOOT someone from an opposing team outside of the building. But then I guess I shouldn't be suprised, it IS Los Angeles after all, and that city is well known for high crime and gun nuts.

Perhaps the most disturbing thing of all is that the guys buddies were encouraging him to shoot.

If this guy had the Presence of mind (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665527)

To go BACK to his car, pull out a (most likely) LOADED gun he had LOADED beforehand and then go BACK to the guy who had pissed him off. He should be a canidate for the electric chair. Not wanting a gibsonesque future but he might not have killed someone already but he sure as hell would have with that MO.

Re:If this guy had the Presence of mind (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665961)

If this guy was travelling with a loaded gun in his car... I would venture to guess that he does that on a semi regular basis. In fact maybe he (the product of his environment) is the problem and not CS itself. This same guy could very well have pulled his gun on a 7-11 clerk over incorrect change while buying a pack of smokes.

pass me a bat... (4, Funny)

jermyjerm (705338) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665534)

I'd like to kick the ass of that guy and all his idiot friends who egged him on!

Wait, that wouldn't help solve the problem of gaming being related to violence, would it?

Re:pass me a bat... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665775)

How do you kick someone's ass with a bat? Wouldn't you need a boot?

rail gun? (0, Flamebait)

datazone (5048) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665572)

am i the only one who thought that some had a rail gun!

Look at the bright side... (1)

Dr. Bent (533421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665603)

...at least he didn't shoot the guy. I mean, if videogames make you want to kill people, wouldn't this guy just have come back from his car shooting first and asking questions later?

Of course, it could also be that he just didn't want to lose points for shooting civilians.

Obligatory Professor Farnsworth quote: (2, Troll)

Naikrovek (667) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665642)

"who needs courage, when you've got a gun?"

how weak, to pull a gun on someone, not to mention an unarmed someone. could he not win the arguement any other way? was his ego so easily bruised? how weak.

guess what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665660)

Guess what folks...Pulling a weapon out during a stupid arguement is nothing new. It happened before the friggin wheel was invented, let alone counterstrike. The stupid friends were always there as well.

Causation vs. Correlation (5, Insightful)

molafson (716807) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665683)

It is impossible to say whether or not video games promote violent behavior. I do not believe that they do, but I have no evidence to support this believe.

In any case, what we *can* say with certainty is that a kind of aggressive/macho/anti-social culture does develop around certain online games. You have only to play these games to notice the angry, sociopathic tendencies of many of their participants (e.g. the rampant cheating, trash talking, causing other nuisances, etc.).

Whether or not the game itself (CS) promotes this kind of behavior is certainly an unresolved question. At the very least, I think we can agree (as another poster pointed out) that certain games attract an element of player who is already disposed toward bad behavior. I do my best to avoid these games.

Re:Causation vs. Correlation (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665780)

"You have only to play these games to notice the angry, sociopathic tendencies of many of their participants (e.g. the rampant cheating, trash talking, causing other nuisances, etc.)."

Except is this related to the game, or to the medium in which it is played? All of these tendencies show up on your average IRC host, and if it were the game it would be happening at paintball tournaments as well.

Re:Causation vs. Correlation (1)

molafson (716807) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665859)

Except is this related to the game, or to the medium in which it is played?

Interesting point. However, anti-social behavior does vary perceptibly from game to game (some online games attract few assholes, others attract many). So it mustn't be the medium per se.

Good example with IRC though. I can't believe the stuff that goes one there sometimes.

Not his son (1)

complete loony (663508) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665724)

(who happened to be the son of the CXG president.)
Note to story editor, it wasn't his son, that's not what the release says:
... upon learning of the disturbance Chris Hill of CXG, and my son, was asked to try and resolve the matter and stop the fighting ...
... placed it to the head of Chris Hill

Re:Not his son (1)

complete loony (663508) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665754)

Then again english is weird, reading that sentence again it could go either way.

Re:Not his son (1)

Nasarius (593729) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665851)

"Was asked", not "were asked". One person.

Re:Not his son (1)

Audiovore (572647) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665996)

You skipped the part which shows that he was talking about one person:

....and my son, was (Was not were) asked to try and resolve the matter and stop the fighting; as he(Singular agian) broke up the fight he and others were jumped by people associated with Team BZ.

Anyway, Joe Hill is president of CXG.

Serious Crime (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665822)

I knew a person that got sent to prison for five years for taking an unloaded shotgun and brandishing it at some punks that were bothering him and his girlfriend. He just wanted to scare the guys away (stupid to do so with an unloaded weapons, seeing as they could have easily had a loaded one, but I digress)

This person should get at least as stiff a penalty. He thinks he the big bad man, well, let's so how big and bad he is in prison. Then he can have a couple of years to think how his life would have been different if he had thought a little.

Personally, I have little patience for idiots like this and wouldn't mind seeing them removed from the Earth. (Dark Side Points awarded)

SpaceCowboy

You can only say WOW. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665872)

I hate the way the media blows everything out of proportion. You can easily blame everything on something else. Now we have guys pulling guns out on people because of a dispute, there's something new for you. You can't really blame video games for this because this isn't the first time this has happened. There has been thousands of years of violence and crazy people who did fine on their own without video games. Just because it happened at a CS tournament doesn't mean it was because of it, but the cheering of the friends is disturbing.

Didn't someone actually get shot over CS in Korea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7665948)

I thought I saw a Slashdot article a few months back about some dude in Korea who actually pulled the trigger on someone after getting beat in CS?

H@x0r (1, Funny)

GearType2 (614552) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665960)

"...and pointed it at the head of a staff member"
So... he was obviously using an aimbot.

gun control (0, Troll)

DrunkClam (555170) | more than 10 years ago | (#7665963)

cus there are just too many idiots out there
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