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314 comments

Phew.. (5, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739595)


That's good, I was worried that this fancy-pants DRM thing wasn't going to take off.

No faster way to kill DRM (4, Funny)

cgenman (325138) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739670)

...than to get the patent lawyers involved.

How disappointing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739865)

With "kill" above in the subject and below in the sig, I thought you were suggesting killing patent lawyers.

That's always a good idea.

Re:Phew.. (1)

pbox (146337) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739933)

Yeah, good for THEM ... bad for US.

Say not to Digital Restriction Management!

More info on intertrust (5, Informative)

junkymailbox (731309) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739596)

For those interested:

Intertrust [intertrust.com] holds alot of United States patents. Those are listed at the USPTO office [uspto.gov]

They also have a patent litigation [intertrust.com] against Microsoft covered by Slashodot [slashdot.org] earlier

Re:More info on intertrust (3, Funny)

NoData (9132) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739821)

They also have a patent litigation against Microsoft covered by Slashodot earlier

Ha! Anyone else misread this as "They also have a patent on litigation against Microsoft..."

Wouldn't surprise me....

I loves me some barratry.

Re:More info on intertrust (4, Funny)

ENOENT (25325) | more than 10 years ago | (#7740021)

Intertrust: We put the "Arr!" in Barratry.

Unbelieveable... (5, Insightful)

insmod_ex (724714) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739601)

...I pay $50 a month for satellite and I cant even record any TV. Thats bullshit.

Re:Unbelieveable... (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739632)


I pay $50 a month for satellite and I cant even record any TV.

Cancel your satellite and be sure to tell them why you're cancelling it. Or keep it. Either way, you're voting with your wallet, it's up to you to decide how you'll vote.

Re:Unbelieveable... (2, Informative)

Frymaster (171343) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739687)

I pay $50 a month for satellite and I cant even record any TV.

oh, you'll be able to record... i mean, there are guys in the parking lot of the mall trying to sell me satelite decoders out of white vans every weekend. it'll only be a matter of time (measured in days) before the white van gang have the "satelite recorder" boxes.

Re:Unbelieveable... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739870)

oh, you'll be able to record... i mean, there are guys in the parking lot of the mall trying to sell me satelite decoders out of white vans every weekend. it'll only be a matter of time (measured in days) before the white van gang have the "satelite recorder" boxes.

I thought white vans were only for luring children into. What is this world coming to?

Re:Unbelieveable... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739720)

For $50 a month you can buy lots of good secondhand books and even a beer to go with them.

Re:Unbelieveable... (1)

Venner (59051) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739856)

Hallelujah.

Re:Unbelieveable... (1)

TCM (130219) | more than 10 years ago | (#7740004)

Wow, spending currency to obtain goods is 2, Interesting. /. people really need to get out more.

Not that I do, but that's beside the point!

Re:Unbelieveable... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739656)


As someone in another newsgroup said, it's troll season.

For what it's worth......

We have two people here (at the moment, anyway) who have certain basic troll characteristics:

They are unable or unwilling to take responsibility for their words or behavior.

They are unable or unwilling to consider the possibility that they have brought a great deal of dislike upon themselves.

I don't know for certain, but my feeling is that each of them is filled with self-hate, and is unable to face that issue.

OK.

I've dealt with self-haters before, and this is what you can expect:

The only thing they can do with their venom is to flush it out on other people. As a result, everything they say about you is a reflection of their feelings about themselves.

Because of their self-hate, there is nothing that you can say that is as bad as what they see in themselves. You can't hurt them, no matter how hard you try.

The only thing that relieves their self-hate is to see other people in pain. If you let them get to you, that only encourages them. That's why they're here in the first place.

The point is that flaming them hurts you more than it hurts them.

What makes it worse--been here, seen this before, too--is that these trolls are insiders. Yes, they hurt, they're depressed, they are at least as far down as any of us. What that means is that they know all the right buttons to push to make us angry. They have no conscience that prevents them from pushing those buttons.

That is the difference between them and us. They have turned abusive. Yes, that does make a difference. I've encountered some recovering abusers on the net, and I learned a few things from that experience. The one thing that sustains an abuser is denial; an abuser cannot allow hirself to be open to the slightest possibility that sie is harming another human being. They blame anyone and anything else in sight, but virtually all of that blame is directed at the victim, in one way or another. Abusers REFUSE to take responsibility for their behavior.

In dealing with an abuser, particularly from a treatment perspective, the first and most important step is to break that denial. It is not only breaking the denial about hurting other people. It is essential to break the denial that they are not responsible for their behavior. They must learn that they have to take responsibility for everything that they do, and it is a hard lesson to teach.

Until an abuser's denial is broken, it is dangerous to give them any sympathy. Sympathy gives them a way out, a way to avoid taking responsibility. Someone else made them the way they are; they're not responsible. This is utter garbage, and to give them this opening is truly a disservice.

So.

They are here to feed on our pain. We don't have to give them that satisfaction.

They stay only as long as we feed them well. If we want them to go, all we have to do is to stop feeding them.

The solution for trolls is in two parts. First, recognize and understand that they are here to hurt us. They way that they hurt us is to beat on us with their own rage. Recognize that everything they say about us is a reflection of their own self-hate. Even when they hit our triggers, it is their rage, their self-hatred that they are giving us. We don't have to let ourselves be hurt by the fact that they hate themselves. We don't have to accept that. We can let them drown in their self-hate, simply by ignoring them.

And that is the second part. If you want a troll to go away, ignore hir. When no one responds to them, they are left with their own venom. That is the last thing that a troll wants to have to deal with.

Let us build an ASD zoo. Let us build cages, and put the appropriate names on those cages. Then let us put a sign in front of those cages:

DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS.

Then, most importantly, let us not feed the animals. Killfile or ignore them, but do not respond to them, and do not accept their pain as your own.

Re:Unbelieveable... (2, Insightful)

ERJ (600451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739768)

You got a vcr? Then you can record. What it pretty much comes down to is, if you can see it and hear it, you can record it. Now, granted, it might not be digital quality, perfect replica, but you can still record it. For some reason the media industry doesn't seem to quite understand this yet...

The Ghost of Linux Past tsarkon reports (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739825)

Robot: THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, before the dawn of man as we knew him, there was Sir Santa of Claus, an ape-like creature making crude and pointless toys out of dinobones and his own waste, hurling them at chimp-like creatures with crinkled hands regardless of how they behaved the previous year. These so-called "toys" were buried as witches, and defecated upon, and hurled at predators when wakened by the searing grunts of children. It wasn't a holly jolly Linux that year. For many were killed.

Frylock Well, that still doesn't tell me why you--

Robot: I'm not finished. YOU should have gotten a snack. A war-like race of elves from the Red Planet landed on the ice-encased Earth, and they were immediately enslaved by the unevolved Santa Ape to make his confused toys using galactic GNU/Linux technology. Toys were made into recognizable shapes and given names like "vmlinuz," but these toys were also thrown at predators and defecated upon because they were so stupid. Linux still sucked, in a big way.

Meatwad: Boy, this IS a long story. Maybe I WILL get something to eat.

Carl: Yeah, I think I'm gonna get drunk while I listen.

Frylock So, about this GNU/blood...

Robot: Let's just wait for them. ...So you been in the neighborhood long, or...

Frylock Well, I mean we moved here, next to Carl--

Carl: Okay, we're back.

Robot: THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO the ice had made the globe invariable. Santa Ape did not know where the North Pole was. How could he? He was born before science existed. So he arbitrarily placed his workshop RIGHT HERE, long before they unionized, and Linux was celebrated at each full Moon in front of a great red ape--

Frylock Wait, wait, wait. Who? WHO unionized?

Robot: Wouldn't YOU like to know? Probably your mama.

Meatwad: It makes me sad that they had to open their toys in front of an ape and they were all made out of doo-doo. What kind of Linux is that?

Frylock It's okay Meatwad. This is all a bunch of bull. Except Linux is doo-doo.

Robot: You don't believe?

Frylock? Believe what? That you're a ghost and Santa Claus is an ape? That's the most ridiculous--

Robot: WAS an ape. Now he is a MACHINE.

Meatwad: I left cookies and a glass of milk for a MACHINE?

Robot: No, man, he's an ape. I mean, NO, he is a machine. You are trying to mess me up on purpose.

Frylock But I thought everyone back then was undeveloped, couldn't make machines with their crinkled hands.

Robot: But the elves came from the Red Planet. There was much defecation.

Frylock Yeah, yeah, you mentioned that. How long ago did you say this was?

Robot: THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO--

Frylock No, shut up. You still haven't explained why the pool is filled with elf GNU/blood.

Robot: I told you earlier. It was the Great Circuiting.

Frylock You didn't mention no Great Circuiting.

Robot: Oh, I didn't? THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO before the dawn of man as we knew him, there was a creature....
(Later that evening) ...and THAT is where babies come from, from machines.

Meatwad: Boy, that was some story. That kind of is different from what I remember being told about, you know, people loving each other, and you know physically.

Robot: NO! That is very wrong! You cling to you pathetic faith about fluid exchange. (Frylock is snoring) I am talking!

Frylock Ooh, I'm sorry. I nodded off. What did I miss?

Meatwad: Well you should have been listening cuz he said that the elves tried to unionize cuz Santa Ape was using their machines and then that turned into a war between the elves and machines, and the machines won, and then this here, this here where we're standing on, this is an elfin playground.

Robot: Graveyard!

Meatwad: Something, and that's why Carl's pool is filled with GNU/blood cuz he over there, that ghost, he's haunting it cuz Carl desecrated it cuz he lives here. Something to about babies too, babies get made that way.

Frylock Carl, did you get all that?

Shake: Hey Carl, wake up. You're wasted.

Carl: What?

Shake: You didn't hear a word he said, did you?

Carl: I guess not. What did he say?

Shake: I hate to be a buzz kill, but he said that your house is on elf graves and they're pissed off.

Carl: Alright fine, we'll do that.

Meatwad: And the GNU/blood's just gonna keep flowing, unless...

Robot: Unless Carl pays tribute to the elfin Elders in space.

Carl: I'll do it. What do I do?

Robot: You must give of yourself to the Great Red Ape.

Carl: Okay, how much?

Robot: Sexually.

Carl: Wonderful.

(Later, Carl is packed to move)

Frylock Hey, man, you know you don't have to move. You could do that other thing that the robot talked about.

Carl: I know it's been a while, right, but I'm not going to get humped by a giant red gorilla in space, okay? No thank you. So get lost. I got a guy coming over here to hopefully put an offer on my GNU/bloody house. I don't need you over here freaking him out. (Gets into the shower) Oh God! (Carl comes out covered in GNU/blood)

Frylock Whoa. I'll tell you what. Why don't you go next door and use our bathroom?

Carl: That's just what I want to do is, you know, get nude in your house.

Schooly: Eew, Carl. How you gonna sell this house full of GNU/blood, G?

Carl: (showing someone around the house) So, it's a full, you know, full 3/2. We got good schools here. You got the bonus room there with the...

Robot: We travel to Mexico tomorrow.

Carl: ...with the shrieking robot, and there he is, and in the summertime you got this. (Shows him the pool)

Man: I got a question. How long does this GNU/blood last?

Carl: I don't know. Let me talk to my GNU/blood guy here.

Robot: The elfin GNU/blood will flow forever for eternity from the elfin graves, forever.

Man: This is @#$%& great. I'm gonna line this thing with gargoyles for the sacrifices.

Carl: What's your name again?

Man: Danzig, mother@#$%^&

Carl: Huh.

Danzig: Now, uh, is there a way to get the GNU/blood to flow up the walls?

Robot: I don't see why not.

Carl: That's good right? Going up a wall? That's elf GNU/blood too. That's not cheap, you know.

Danzig: How much you want?

Carl: I don't know, maybe, I don't know, a million?

Danzig: Killer. Draft a check tomorrow.

Carl: You're serious. Thank you, God!

Same Old (1)

blunte (183182) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739874)

That's like when I'm NOT ALLOWED to press the fucking STOP button on my DVD player during the first several seconds of the the DVD.

And while I'm ranting off topic, FUCK YOU to the anti-fair-use people who won't let me skip previews on DVDs. I paid for use of the movie I bought. There should be no limitations placed on me with respect to previews and my ability to NOT watch them.

Who are these people who create these rules?

Re:Unbelieveable... (2, Insightful)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739880)

Always a way around it, never fear.

Re:Unbelieveable... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7740003)

You must be a little slow if you can't figure out how to work a VCR. And if you're complaining about not being able to record digital quality, get a DirecTivo. It records the raw stream straight from the satellite and plays it back whenever you want. Two channels at the same time, even. And you've been able to extract that unencrypted, unprocessed video from a Tivo for years. Well, maybe you haven't but the rest of the world has been able to do it.

Hrrm (4, Insightful)

GnrlFajita (732246) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739606)

Anyone know any more details than are in the article? As much as the idea of DRM makes me cringe, I know it's here to stay and therefore a unified standard would be a good thing ( iTunes on my MD player?). But the article has exactly zero info on the "RM" part of the DRM, specifically the most important question of how many copies can be made (i.e., one onto your computer, one to archive, and one to your media player?).

Re:Hrrm (4, Insightful)

BJZQ8 (644168) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739641)

I can't imagine any scenario where DRM would make things more open and transferrable between devices. Instead of sharing music between your iPod and your MD player, it will instead prevent you from playing music from your iPod V4.3 on your iPod V4.4. When corporate types are given a tool of any sort, they always seem to use it as a hammer. (When all you have is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail!)

Re:Hrrm (4, Insightful)

nate1138 (325593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739665)

Bullshit. DRM isn't here to stay if you don't let it be. I know it seems tough, but just refuse to buy anything with DRM included. Vote with your wallet. So you won't have the coolest new toys, but your soul will stay intact.

Re:Hrrm (4, Insightful)

JudgeFurious (455868) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739794)

Absolutely, 100% the fucking truth.

I buy nothing with DRM.

NOTHING.

It might very well be here to stay but if that ends up being the case I'm not going to be the asshole who made it that way. Society, if it feels strongly enough about this to want to do something should make it our collective "mission in life" to make any product with DRM built in a financial failure. The only way they're going to stop pushing DRM down our throats is if we convince them that there's no money in it and that the consumer will not buy it.

Re:Hrrm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739926)

So, you got no DVD drive? No post 64bit computer, no Harddrives for that computer, no monitor....

So, are you becoming Amish then?

sneaking it in (4, Insightful)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739946)

iPod, iTunes, SD cards, Texas Instruments graphing calculators, game consoles, and so forth all have DRM. The items that don't forcefully use DRM are the ones that sell.

Re:Hrrm (2, Funny)

jazman_777 (44742) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739970)

I buy nothing with DRM.

NOTHING.

Bully for you. You won't be like all the other /. ranters who then add in a whispter, "after the Return of the King comes out on DVD." Or whatever movie/music you just gotta have.

Re:Hrrm (1)

jazman_777 (44742) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739944)

I know it seems tough, but just refuse to buy anything with DRM included. Vote with your wallet. So you won't have the coolest new toys, but your soul will stay intact.

Many have bought Microsoft. Many of us have bought computers with Microsoft stuff on them, and run them (gaming, anyone?). How do we reclaim our souls?

Re:Hrrm (1)

MunchMunch (670504) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739912)

"specifically the most important question of how many copies can be made"

I believe the article said or strongly implies that copies cannot be made. Pure speculation, but I assume that this means that it's some system whereby when a file is copied, the DRM dictates that the original must be destroyed.

Buried alive... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739621)

KHAAAAAN!

0100101101001000010000010100111000100001 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739674)

01001011010010000100000101000001010000010100000101 0000010100111000100001

"There are about 800 cannibals in Germany" (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739622)

Re:"There are about 800 cannibals in Germany" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739698)

I'm not trolling. It's simply true. Why can't we admit that some sexual perversions are just wrong? Here's part of an article from a British tabloid, The Sun. Don't read it if you have a weak stomach.

A VIDEO of a cannibal eating his victim left judges and lawyers speechless and pale with shock yesterday.

It shows the death of Bernd-Juergen Brandes, killed by Armin Meiwes.

The film opens as Brandes pleads with Meiwes to cut off his penis. Brandes, 42. says: "Slice the thing off now!"

Meiwes cuts at the organ but the knife is too blunt. He fetches an 18cm butcher's knife and cuts off the penis.

Brandes slumps backwards but there are no cries of pain. Instead he half laughs and says: "Look - it's gone!"

He is bandaged in a bid to halt the blood flow. Meiwes then starts to fry the penis in butter on a stove.

His victim, sitting upright but with glazed eyes, tries to eat the fried flesh but says: "It is too tough."

"BigBrother.com" now available (4, Informative)

malibucreek (253318) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739625)

FWIW... more doomsday from Newsweek [msn.com] : How the Internet could become a tool of corporate and government power, based on updates now in the works.

Re:"BigBrother.com" now available (1)

LordK3nn3th (715352) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739992)

While this cyberslack has its downside-porn, credit-card fraud and insincere bids on eBay-it was considered a small price to pay for free speech and friction-free business models.

Objective reporting? So much for the "liberal" media... including porn in a list of fraud and dishonesty just doesn't seem like integrity to me.

Re:"BigBrother.com" now available (2, Insightful)

instantkarma1 (234104) | more than 10 years ago | (#7740010)

Lawernce Lessig's Book, "The Future of Ideas" covers the loss of the internet as a commons for us all. Big Business & Government are stacking the legislation in their favor at the expense of this commons, which certainly stifles innovation.

In other words, we are collectively shorting ourselves in the long term for short term profits and security.

This sucks.

Did they... (4, Funny)

Penguinshit (591885) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739631)

...just say "DRM" and "Open Standard" in the same sentence?

Re:Did they... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739671)

Hmm, open DRM standard. Oh what [slashdot.org] fun we can have copying away.

Better yet, just

mkfifo /dev/sound
tail -f /dev/sound > record &
Oh what fun.

Re:Did they... (2, Funny)

prockcore (543967) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739929)

[Did they]...just say "DRM" and "Open Standard" in the same sentence?

You just did as well.

Re:Did they... (2, Funny)

Penguinshit (591885) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739945)


oh.. you're right..

ack.. arrrgh! I'm mellllltiiiiinnnnnnnggg!!!....

Re:Did they... (1)

TCM (130219) | more than 10 years ago | (#7740031)

Where is the problem? OpenPGP successfully provides selective access to "content" as well, doesn't it?

Er, consumer? (5, Insightful)

DarkBlackFox (643814) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739633)

"DRM is an accelerator which will boost digital sales of media, because it will convince media companies their content is protected. It should not be a competitive weapon," he added.

Err.... Last time I checked, sales were more dependant on the consumer than the peddler. I'd hope it's more important to convince consumers their right to use what they are investing in isn't in jeopardy.

Good luck selling non-DRM electronics... (2, Insightful)

siskbc (598067) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739732)

Last time I checked, sales were more dependant on the consumer than the peddler. I'd hope it's more important to convince consumers their right to use what they are investing in isn't in jeopardy.

...if all media that MOST people want to listen to is DRM-only. Of course, since a DRM-free market will sell more shit than a DRM-crippled media market, manufacturers WANT you to have as much freedom as possible, as it's good for their profits.

The only problem with that is that some of the major hardware manufacterers are owned by companies that reside in the same corporate parent as a large media company (example: Sony and Columbia). So don't expect Sony to lead the anti-DRM charge.

Re:Good luck selling non-DRM electronics... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739898)

Good point, but unfortunately, we're already losing the battle. DVD players are DRM devices, and they are the fastest selling consumer device ever sold with 60 million units sold to date.

Re:Er, consumer? (2, Insightful)

BenSnyder (253224) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739761)

In order for a consumer to exist, a market with sellers already in the market also needs to exist. I think that quote was intended to mean that media companies will feel comfortable about creating the market when they feel that their IP is safe.

Now, needless to say that the market already exists, and flourishes in the ways we're all familiar with. That they don't recognize that is the fault of their own hubris. The works (songs, movies, etc.) are obviously already available online for phree. But it's true, until DRM is figured out, you won't be able to pay them for the privilege of (what I consider to be with DRM) a defective product.

*sigh* (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739644)

DRM is bad. Although it is effective at stopping pirates, it also hurts the people who want to legally use what they pay for. Everytime any attempt has been made to stop pirates, it has done nothing but hurt those who paided for it. Take iTunes: You can't take your music to platforms where iTunes doesn't exist. Take the bogus CD track on some music CDs: Couldn't play them in your PC, some CD players, some car CD players, etc.

Although DRM will stop pirates, it stops legit users too.

Fortress of Insanity [homeunix.org]

Re:*sigh* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739662)

Did you mean: DRM is bad, mmmkay.?

Re:*sigh* (1)

fshalor (133678) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739925)

I wouldn't say it's effective yet. But it does make things annoying.

1. SAMS system on DAT players/recorders. (oh...why would you want to copy your original recording?)
2. Sony and the MD crisis. (That was cool. Now; how do I get the blasted music OFF the fsckin recorder?)

There are always ways.

legitimate users too? (3, Interesting)

rbird76 (688731) | more than 10 years ago | (#7740039)

the only purpose of DRM (or at least the only purpose that is likely to work) to restrict the rights of users over the works they "purchase" and the machines they "own". Professional-grade copiers will crack DRMd works and sell them - preventing that from occurring is likely impossible. DRM is here to take users' fair use rights and give them (mostly) back to them, charging them for the privilege. That way, companies can make money while providing less of a product - the dream of corrupt, evil industries or regimes everywhere. No wonder they keep pushing it.

Adoption rate (2, Insightful)

trentblase (717954) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739651)

They say they hope to replace a "confusing array of proprietary systems", but they don't say what they're going to do to get people to use their system. It's not a "global DRM" system if they don't even have any large media companies on board.

Oops (2, Insightful)

trentblase (717954) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739667)

I overlooked the fact that Sony is in itself a large media company. But I still don't see why other media companies would choose this over anything else.

Stable Door... (5, Insightful)

nick_davison (217681) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739653)

Does anyone else get the feeling the horse has left the stable, walked down the street, gone in to an electronics store, bought an IPOD and got the hell out of town already?

The problem is that there are perfectly good alternatives without DRM technology. Why would anyone by something new that restricts their existing options? Even worse, why would a consumer pay the extra $x for their media player to buy the rights from a DRM patents company?

Perhaps it's time companies stopped chasing after the music DRM market, let it go, and simply learned their lessons for the still [largely] unfought movie market?

Re:Stable Door... (1)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739702)

Simple. Because new music will be released with it and on old player would people people can listen only to old music.

Re:Stable Door... (1)

ncc74656 (45571) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739737)

Simple. Because new music will be released with it and on old player would people people can listen only to old music.

You say that as if that would be a Bad Thing...given what gets passed off as "music" nowadays, I'm not so sure that would necessarily be a Bad Thing.

Re:Stable Door... (1)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 10 years ago | (#7740020)

Speaking as someone who spends more time trying to track down obscurities from his old vinyl collection on CDs rather than checking out the latest thing, I'm with you! But I'm sure that DRM will be important to the record companies as their income must mostly be from new material.

Re:Stable Door... (2, Insightful)

EvilSporkMan (648878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739749)

Two words: Analog hole. Also, I'm pretty sure one could write some sound card drivers that piped WAV data to disk instead of to speakers...

Re:Stable Door... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739804)

Done, by accident. [sourceforge.net]

Re:Stable Door... (1)

elmegil (12001) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739826)

At least one already has [highcriteria.com] . For Windoze anyway....

Re:Stable Door... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739766)


Why would anyone by something new that restricts their existing options?

Because it will be a criminal offense not to submit to DRM? Seriously, the neofascists have already infiltrated almost everywhere. Arlene McCarthy, the witch who is trying to bring software patents in in europe, is ALSO in charge of a new organisation to define the legal requirements for european computer security. And "trusted computing" is bound to creep in, given she's Microsoft's little bitch.

Remember, if the fascists (corporatism is a synonym for fascism as defined by Mussolini, BTW) can control everything you are permitted to see and hear, you might not be able to even perceive the bars of the cage they've put you in.

FREE SOCIETY NEEDS FREE INFORMATION. END INTELLECTUAL "PROPERTY" NOW.

Re:Stable Door... (5, Insightful)

Isca (550291) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739773)

The bad thing is that companies such as this one are positioning themselves for the next round of laws, the ones where they say it's illegal to purchase any new device that does not confirm to the DRM standards.

Sure, there will be people who can get around whatever restrictions, but if DRM is built into everything, it becomes harder for the avg joe to get around them.

Most people won't complain about these issues if it comes slowly... first, the broadcast flag will be used very very sparingly... then a little more, except that they'll sell that tv show to you through your cablebox at 3:00 am in the morning when you want to see it--- then pretty soon, that will be the format for everything.

The good news is that anything you ever want to see will be available for a cheap price (because of competition).

The bad news is that anything you ever want to see will be available for a cheap price (nothing will be free, except infomercials).

-chris

Re:Stable Door... (2, Interesting)

tr0p (728557) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739807)

I don't think these top-heavy ad-hoc markets will add up to a "big brother internet". Who wants that? I don't think it can get that bad, but if something like the big brother net can happen by pulling the wool over everyone's eyes midswing through the information age then it was probably inevitable by nature. If it happens it will be because we are better off with it.

Not even Intel, AMD, and Microsoft combined have the influence to "lock-in" everyone, I don't think its possible. Anybody here read Steven Johnson's "Emergence"? The system is most powerful when its run from the bottom up.

Re:Stable Door... (4, Insightful)

swb (14022) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739890)

The problem is that there are perfectly good alternatives without DRM technology. Why would anyone by something new that restricts their existing options? Even worse, why would a consumer pay the extra $x for their media player to buy the rights from a DRM patents company?

The only scenerio that makes *any* sense to me is if some new DRM device came on the scene and had inexpensive access to a massive library of content. Such as a set-top box with access to nearly every movie or TV show ever made -- no restrictions on when you watch them, how often you watch them, as long as you paid your monthly fee.

The problem is the DRM pushers want expensive usage fees, content packages, content limits and all kinds of other restrictions that make it undesirable AND they want to DRM it.

I think they'll be able to sell DRM once they realize that the flat fee and a huge library will make people notice the DRM less. Until then...

What is the object of DRM systems? (5, Insightful)

johndiii (229824) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739672)

Copy protection did not work for computer software. A sufficiently determined individual can always defeat such a system. And distribute the results. Yes, they can be prosecuted using the DMCA, but that will not stop it.

In this case, it is more instructive to look to the profit motive. When they implement a new DRM system, they can sell us new CD and DVD players, and new CDs of all the old music that we've bought (twice, maybe) already. The "replace your old LPs" profit center was a huge one, until it was knocked down by (1) DVDs and (2) saturation. Now, they are hoping to recreate it through technical means.

Re:What is the object of DRM systems? (1)

knowles420 (589383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739736)

good thing i have devices to play music and video that were made pre-latest-drm-fest. if not, there's always my computer.

Re:What is the object of DRM systems? (1)

johndiii (229824) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739775)

Yes, but say, in five years, you want to buy the new Michael Jackson, er, Metallica CD. It won't play in your computer; it won't play in any of your dedicated pre-DRM CD players. So what do you do?

The answer is clear. Don't buy from these people. Stop buying from them now, not later. I don't think that this (the DRM initiative) will actually succeed. They want people to spend more money for less convenience. But they can try.

Re:What is the object of DRM systems? (1)

EvilSporkMan (648878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739824)

I go down to my buddy's house, cable analog out on his CD player to analog in on my sound card, and dump the thing to disk. Then I compress it to MP3 or OGG and skip merrily away.

Re:What is the object of DRM systems? (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739961)

Generally speaking, a copy protection schemes does not stop even the most casual party from copying software. There has to be something else that encourages them to license the product.

In software that extra something is either the carrot of value added services or the stick of the BSA taking all company assets to cover huge litigation bills and the resulting fines. The labels are tying to implement the stick with music and movies, while virtually ignoring possible carrots, like pricing the product so it is easier to license than copy, or adding original content to the product to justify the cost.

These schemes can also help protect the innocent from mistakes. This is the value in some software based DRM in terms of security. I see no security benefits from this DRM scheme.

And of course they are playing a dangerous PR game in which they have to balance the power of the DRM against the loyalty of the customers. If the kids think you are dissing them, they will go somewhere else.

Universal = Better? (5, Interesting)

geekychic (732496) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739673)

For the company, doesn't diversity in standards actually help them protect their materials? It seems that having only one standard would just concentrate everyone's efforts on breaking it and therefore would get cracked faster.

Re:Universal = Better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739906)

Ssssshh! They might hear!

Is this DRM here to stay? (1)

saskboy (600063) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739676)

I say it will be, but there will always be alternative means that although may be illegal, will be as easily obtainable. An example are the DirecTV dishes in Canada. Although the RCMP has begun doing raids to stop people from "stealing signals", it won't be long before they realize their time on that is a waste of resources.

Remember 3 years ago when it was said that we'd all have harddrives with built in DRM by now? Where are they?

Re:DRM hard disks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739764)

Remember 3 years ago when it was said that we'd all have harddrives with built in DRM by now? Where are they?
DRM hard disks are here, but the IDE controller decrypts it for you. If you don't believe me, try switching the platters into another drive. You'll find out.

Re:DRM hard disks (1)

saskboy (600063) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739882)

I'll have to trust you on that, or wait until someone else confirms or denies, because it just so happens that my hard drive repair clean room is out of order at the moment.

Re:Is this DRM here to stay? (2, Funny)

NaugaHunter (639364) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739841)

Remember 3 years ago when it was said that we'd all have harddrives with built in DRM by now? Where are they?

They're putting them in the flying cars.

Wait... wrong thread. I meant they're being used for the new, improved rings of power.

Filthy Corporate Dogs (1)

Dinglenuts (691550) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739679)

This is fine with me. One standard will just make it easier to defeat. And it will be defeated.

Boy, I sure hope they pull this off.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739680)

The benefit of a universal system is that it only needs to be cracked once.

Right now, we have to crack every new Joe DRM system on the block.

So, let's hurry this up and get it over with so we can put all of this behind us now.

Let's Limit Patents (4, Insightful)

serutan (259622) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739681)

Does anybody else think it would be a good idea if the life of a patent were shortened by a specific amount every time the rights changed hands? The idea would be to discourage companies that exist only to acquire rights to things without actually creating anything.

After all, the original purpose of the patents and trademarks system was, "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries (United States Constitution, Section 8)."

It doesn't say anything about promoting or supporting a "rights market" for clever business people.

Re:Let's Limit Patents (1)

cobbaut (232092) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739828)

Does anybody else think it would be a good idea if the life of a patent were shortened...

Please no, i have this bright idea of starting a company to patent DRM.

Shares anyone ?

And it will be as crackable... (4, Insightful)

ansak (80421) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739688)

...as DVD country codes and the various "disposible" digital cameras whose contents have been analysed and the results posted here on a regular basis, right?

How many times did we hear rumours of pay-per-run services being the wave of the future in the last 10 years? But the best way to keep this from being adopted, is for us as the consumers to boycott such products in the stores and for us as the voters to remember what democratically elected individual supported the adoption of the DMCA-like laws required to back it up.

F-IW [abelard.org] ...ank

Re:And it will be as crackable... (1)

Deagol (323173) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739960)

Maybe. I haven't been able to find a way around the DVD-Audio copy protection discussed on the 'net. I don't know how long DVD-A has been out, but I'm not holding my breath for a crack. Given the fact that DeCSS was possible because of some vendor's goof (left the keys out in the open, pretty much), I'm not surprised that DVD-A has not been broken just yet (that we know of).

Of course, the "analog hole" will pretty much always be around. But the joy of ripping the raw bits off the disc may be a long way off.

A universal DRM system would be great... (-1, Troll)

athorshak (652273) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739706)


for me to poop on!!

Not to worry... (1)

EvilSporkMan (648878) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739712)

Linux - DRM-apathetic since 1991! Seriously, Linux is going to be around for some time, and with the source for most stuff all over it CAN'T go back in the bottle. Just keep noncompliant software around and DRM worries will be a nonissue. Remember, content can be either viewable or completely secure, not both, and there's always sneakernetting.

This is great news! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739721)

This means we'll only have one format to crack, instead of four hundred! :)

woo hoo DRM consolodation (-1, Redundant)

sPaKr (116314) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739753)

This is great. We need ONE end all system that Everyone uses, it should include ALL content and All devices! This is Great. So as hackers we will only need to break ONE system, instead of a bunch of little ones. Sweet.
On hack to rule them ALL

Global Revenue Streams (2, Insightful)

Marcus Erroneous (11660) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739756)

Hmmm, reasonable terms. Another company looking to get everyone established as a revenue stream for them. One more person in my wallet everytime I turn around. Reasonable until they need to meet the street's expectations, then "reasonable" changes. I know, it's not inherently bad, and it's not. It's just not inherently good either and today's benevolent manager will eventually be replaced by tomorrow's pointy-haired boss who has numbers to meet for the year. I'm not against capitalism, I'm just suspicious that this is another attempt to put an armlock on a popular service and then apply their leverage.

I love this Logic... (5, Insightful)

jpmoney (323533) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739762)

"DRM is an accelerator which will boost digital sales of media, because it will convince media companies their content is protected. It should not be a competitive weapon," he added.

So let me get this straight:

1. Companies encrypt their data
2.
3. Digital sales of media are "boosted"

They're leaving out the entire... well... consumer and adoption step that I think is a bit important. Just because they build it, it doesn not mean that people will come. Didn't they learn anything during the .com boom?

Lack of diversity will lessen protection (5, Insightful)

Cash Mitchell (601903) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739772)

Unless the given DRM technology is truly unbreakable (probably not), having one standard widely implemented will probably be worse protection for content owners. It is similiar to genetic diversity in a population. The benefit of having many different content protection schemes is that if any one is broken, the others will most likely be unaffected. Thus by adopting one imperfect DRM standard, they may in fact be greatly lessening the ability to protect their content.

Whee! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739783)

Time for me to rent a few Public Storage lockers and start buying up cheap, DRM-free consumer electronics.

I'll wait a few years, and then once you can't watch a movie on TBS without Jack Valenti's say-so, I'll eBay everything at tremendous profits.

One Phrase, Two Meanings (3, Insightful)

LaCosaNostradamus (630659) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739786)

Go right ahead, Intertust (i.e. Philips/Sony). Make sure your DRM stickers on your equipment are bright, cheery and clearly identifiable so I can find which stuff to NOT buy.

"Consumers want an open system, and the electronics industry wants it too," Ruud Peters, chief executive of Philips's intellectual property and standards unit, told Reuters.

That's the finest example of "two different meanings for the same phrase" that I've seen all year. Consumers have most of the "open system" they want right now.

Wankers.

No, Really, You Can't Copy These ... (1)

SoSueMe (263478) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739815)

To quote a line from Shrek (just happen to be making a copy now):
"Really?"
"Really, really."

This might last about 20 minutes after it hits the market

All of this could have been avoided.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739846)

...if consumers had not illegally copied IP belonging to producers. It was so easy, simply buy the item. But no, you had to abuse this trust that benevolent companies such as Sony, Time-Warner, had placed in you. So now we get this.

Don't bitch, this was entirely preventable.

Prediction: DRM will continue to hurt the economy (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739847)

The article includes a quote of what has been accepted wisdom, accepted unchallengingly by regulators (see the commentary to the FCC regulations concerning the so-called Broadcast Flag, for example, which accepts at face value that DRM will boost sales, without in any manner examining that assumption):

"DRM is an accelerator which will boost digital sales of media, because it will convince media companies their content is protected. It should not be a competitive weapon," he added."

This quote is simply wrong. DRM has already damaged sales of hardware and content. I predict that increased DRM will not be an accelerator but will continue instead to be a de-accelerator and drain on the economy which will reduce digital sales of media.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." -- Edward R. Murrow

ok and not ok (4, Interesting)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739868)

From TFA:

"The electronics industry recognizes that Microsoft is a formidable player, but consumer electronics makers do not want to become dependent on Microsoft. They need an interoperable and independent system," Peters said.

DRM sucks, DRM is evil, DRM is the tool of terrorists, robber barons, and Republicans. That having been said, though ... I would much rather see a DRM standard that is vendor-neutral from a computer platform perspective, instead of Palladium Everywhere (also known as "Dystopia" to us Linux folks).

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to see no DRM at all, and I intend to vote with my wallet as much as possible. But if DRM does happen anyway, I would have a very strong preference for Intertrust instead of Palladium. At least with Intertrust there's the possibility that some vendor will offer a Linux version of the protected player.

Would you pillory me such... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739927)

...if I release my own personal creations with DRM? Would you rather I have my work copied freely without potential recompense (note that I don't automatically assume I will be successful in selling such work), after I have followed the rules of U.S. law and payed fees and taxes for being in business?

Re:ok and not ok (1)

myg (705374) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739973)

And the minute a company offers a Linux player I'll happily write my own kernel drivers that capture the content as it is played.

Short of every CD I buy coming with a security officer (who would no likely be outsourced from India) to watch my behavior there is little a DRM system can do. Its a pointless marketing blip.

There is always my trusty logic analyzer and ICE unit to get at the content too.

Oh Boy! (4, Insightful)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739983)

More stuff to crack! Never a boring day, is there?

Really though, if it weren't for all this cat and mouse shit, all these parasite companies wouldn't exist and all the crackers would have to get a real life...

You can't have too many universal DRM schemes! (2, Informative)

gearmonger (672422) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739995)

In case anyone was worried about DRM dragging down consumers' ability to enjoy their content, the sheer number of "universal" DRM systems being proposed should effectively castrate their effectiveness.

At least for a while...

Revolving door that screws the customer (4, Insightful)

Hellasboy (120979) | more than 10 years ago | (#7739996)

They spend millions to create technology to hinder people from doing what they would like with what they paid for, in that process they increase the price to help pay for this technology.

Increased prices lead to decreased sales. DRM get's cracked, sales increase and companies yell that they are losing money to piracy. To offset this potential loss of money, they increase prices.

They spend millions more to create new DRM to hinder people from doing what they would like with what they had paid for. Increase the cost to offset this spending.
It just continues.

anyone catch the following in the article?
"'Consumers want an open system, and the electronics industry wants it too,'"
[very next paragraph]
"Microsoft, for instance, has opened music stores on the Internet that sell music encoded in such a way that they can only be played back with a Windows Media Player."
how is this good for the consumer or even open for that matter?

Universal DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7739997)

How do they plan on enforcing how the inhabitants of the planet Zorkif use their machines?

Sometimes even Subscribers feel like trolling- so (0, Troll)

Loosewire (628916) | more than 10 years ago | (#7740018)

Intertrust can suck my cock
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