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Microsoft's New Core OS Team Learning from Linux

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the open-the-os-and-really-learn-from-linux dept.

Windows 732

sokk writes "Seems like Microsoft is paying attention to the Linux way of doing things. According to itworld.com, a new central engineering division will work on the core of Windows: "The Windows Core Operating System Division (COSD), within the company's Platforms Group, will be responsible for the core OS platform, including development, program management and testing, Microsoft said in a statement sent via e-mail.". A little further down the page analyst Rob Enderle: "They have been studying Linux extensively. Part of their study has been on how Linux has been able to maintain a high level of consistency in the kernel while groups around it maintain maximum flexibility,". "

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732 comments

Of course they're learning from Linux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746693)

The best way to improve is to study mistakes.

Re:Of course they're learning from Linux (2, Funny)

boomer_rehfield (579777) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746715)

If that was the case then they would have already learned from their own.

Sir you have replied to a first post (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746730)

Thereby proving that you are unable to learn from the mistakes of others.

Microsoft does not have this failing.

Re:Of course they're learning from Linux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746864)


Sir Haxalot was tired after another long day of karmawhoring at slashdot. "Hacky," his mother called, "time for dinner!" Sir Haxalot came upstairs from the basement where the bright lights of the kitchen temporarily blinded him. "Mommy, it's too bright in here!" he complained. His mother smiled "Come here, Hacky. Let mommy make you feel better."

He followed her voice but kept his eyes tightly shut. He felt a hand massage his crotch.. "MMmm... mommy, you know I like that..." "Yes dear, mommy knows.." The hand undid his zipper and pulled his turgid member forthwith.

A warm mouth gently licked the head of his penis. It didn't take long. Only moments later a jet of hot wad shot into the mouth.. "Did you like that?" his mother asked from behind him.. "Wha..?!" he asked, suprised. Opening his eyes he saw his daddy eagerly swallowing every drop of his cum.

"DADDY!! You came back!" cried Sir Haxalot. "Hello son," his father replied, "I had a lot of thinking to do and this was the best way I could think of to apologize for leaving you after that intense round of sodomy 3 years ago."

"That's OK, daddy. I know you had problems keeping your job as the school janitor. I don't believe anything the other kids said about you touching their pee-pees and putting your pee-pee in their bums."

His father lost his smile "Son.. that's what we have to talk about.. it's true. For 17 years as a school janitor I was a filthy sodomite. I'd take little 12 year old 'pee-pees' in my mouth and get them hard. Once the lad was past the point of caring, I'd get him to stick it in my bum. Then I'd have my way with them. It was a good 17 year stretch but now, with these new damn laws, I'll have to keep my penchant for anal excursions strictly here at home. 'Home is where the Hard is' you know."

After dinner the Haxalots were frolicking naked on the floor, standard after-dinner play for them. "Daddy.. remember that time you spanked me and a finger accidently went up my bum?" "Yes, son.. and actually it wasn't a mistake. I was staking my claim." replied Hacky's father. "Well.. I was hoping you'd do it again, but this time with your whole hand." Haxalot's mother jumped up "Oh my! He wants to be fisted! I'm so proud of you, son!" she beamed. Haxalot's father applied a generous helping of Crisco shortening to his hand. Sir Haxalot bent over the coffee table which had been the scene of so many anal-rapings by his father.

Haxalot's father gently slid his index finger into Haxalot's bum. "Uh oh.. looks like you didn't prepare.." said the father as he pulled out his finger, smeared with feces. "Here you go," said the father, "here's that teenage moustache you never were able to grow." and with that he wiped the feces across Sir Haxalot's upper lip. "Yay! Now I'm a big boy like the toughies at school!"

(there's more.. just sit tight. It's all coming together..)

Re:Of course they're learning from Linux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746883)

one chance
one chance
one chance
to fail sleep walking

SIR HAXALOT IS NOT ON TEH SPOKE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746699)

cuz he's too busy masturbating to gay porn.

Re:SIR HAXALOT IS NOT ON TEH SPOKE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746788)


Sir Haxalot was tired after another long day of karmawhoring at slashdot. "Hacky," his mother called, "time for dinner!" Sir Haxalot came upstairs from the basement where the bright lights of the kitchen temporarily blinded him. "Mommy, it's too bright in here!" he complained. His mother smiled "Come here, Hacky. Let mommy make you feel better."

He followed her voice but kept his eyes tightly shut. He felt a hand massage his crotch.. "MMmm... mommy, you know I like that..." "Yes dear, mommy knows.." The hand undid his zipper and pulled his turgid member forthwith.

A warm mouth gently licked the head of his penis. It didn't take long. Only moments later a jet of hot wad shot into the mouth.. "Did you like that?" his mother asked from behind him.. "Wha..?!" he asked, suprised. Opening his eyes he saw his daddy eagerly swallowing every drop of his cum.

"DADDY!! You came back!" cried Sir Haxalot. "Hello son," his father replied, "I had a lot of thinking to do and this was the best way I could think of to apologize for leaving you after that intense round of sodomy 3 years ago."

"That's OK, daddy. I know you had problems keeping your job as the school janitor. I don't believe anything the other kids said about you touching their pee-pees and putting your pee-pee in their bums."

His father lost his smile "Son.. that's what we have to talk about.. it's true. For 17 years as a school janitor I was a filthy sodomite. I'd take little 12 year old 'pee-pees' in my mouth and get them hard. Once the lad was past the point of caring, I'd get him to stick it in my bum. Then I'd have my way with them. It was a good 17 year stretch but now, with these new damn laws, I'll have to keep my penchant for anal excursions strictly here at home. 'Home is where the Hard is' you know."

hi (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746703)

i eat nigger shit

Re:hi (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746844)

Susan?

now wait... (0, Offtopic)

Janek Kozicki (722688) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746705)

till M$ makes windows opensource

Re:now wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746795)

That sure would blow EVERYONE away...
I know it would never happen, but could you imagine if at the release of Longhorn, M$ announces that they are releasing all of their home user software as Open Source under the BSD license?

There's such a slim chance of that happenening... but if MS did that.. it would almost certainly bring them back into my good books. (although, admittedly, they would be near the bottom of the last page, hahah)

At the VERY least, it would be interesting if they open sourced all legacy OS's, like Win3.1 - Win98.

Makes you wonder.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746706)


...whether they'll be "borrowing" some Linux code during their studies...

Re:Makes you wonder.... (3, Informative)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746830)


No way in hell this will happen. MS has too much to loose from it. Even code used from BSD has to be uber-approved before it can be used.

More Power To Them (4, Insightful)

anotherone (132088) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746708)

It's not like Linux developers haven't learned (or blatently copied) anything from Windows.

Re:More Power To Them (5, Funny)

Duncan3 (10537) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746732)

Nah, Linux developers have cut out the middleman and are copying Apple directly now :)

This is a perfect example of (1, Insightful)

2names (531755) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746928)

why up-modding should have no limit. One of the funniest EVER!

Errh, from the CORE of Windows!? (-1, Insightful)

Idou (572394) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746822)

Yeah, that sounds REALLY interesting, moderators . . . I think this poster got confused with the KDE team (which is COMPLETELY different from the Linux kernel project) and the moderators didn't seem to notice, which really damages my faith in the /. system (not too late to redeem yourselves, though).

Or do you really think Linux developers are copying code from the Windows' core into the kernel (perhaps we have found the cause of some of the more unstable releases . . .)?

I think I will go meta-moderate now . . .

Re:Errh, from the CORE of Windows!? (0, Offtopic)

CrosseyedPainless (27978) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746881)

Mismoderation really damages your faith in slashdot? You deserve a +5, Funny for that one!

But I agree, I don't see what the poster's point is. Maybe you're right on the KDE thing....

Re:More Power To Them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746846)

Frankly, that is just how the world works. If we don't learn from one another then a lot of time is wasted solving the same problems. Rob Enderle is an idiot and offers up no actual proof that they are directly learning from the way the linux kernel is developed. Rob tends to comment on IT related stories without ever offering technical backing. This case is no exception. He is a known microsoft trumpeter who makes claims that will get him airtime so Bill Lumberg's stock can go up a quarter of a point.

Re:More Power To Them (1, Insightful)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746872)

There's a difference there.

MS has source available.

If linux users had such source available to look at, you better damned well believe there'd be no more need for MS, anywhere.

Re:More Power To Them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746906)

Why learn from Linux when you can just use the Linux kernel? Nothing in the license says that you have to use GNU/X/BSD licensed software on it.

I'm waiting for the punch line. (-1, Offtopic)

7x7 (665946) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746714)

C'mon, where are all the witty comments? This certainly isn't one.

This really is not news (5, Insightful)

smaug195 (535681) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746718)

Microsoft isn't stupid, Linux is a great study in OS Development, and they are using it to their advantage.

Re:This really is not news (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746767)

Sure it is news. It allows smelly linux hippies to feed their misguided arrogance, which is truly caused by an inferiority complex.. This complex is fed by the fact that they cannot even give away their product and noticeably impact MS' market share - all they can impact is each others's share and, if they're lucky, Sun's. although Sun does a good enough job alienating their customers that they don't need any help.

Re:This really is not news (4, Funny)

cscx (541332) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746828)

I'd say. Wait till Bill Gates dumps his haircut and grows a full-out Santa Claus beard in the style of Jon 'maddog' Hall.

Re:This really is not news (4, Insightful)

runlvl0 (198575) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746925)

Indeed. In fact, it sounds like they're not studying the technology, they're studying the management practices.

"They have been studying Linux extensively. Part of their study has been on how Linux has been able to maintain a high level of consistency in the kernel while groups around it maintain maximum flexibility," Enderle said.

It's doublefunny that "The newly formed division... will report to Senior Vice President Brian Valentine [microsoft.com], the Redmond, Washington, company said."

That's Brian Valentine, of "Linux is the long-term threat against our core business. Never forget that!" [theregister.co.uk] and Our products just aren't engineered for security." [infoworld.com]

Best of luck with that.

Matrix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746929)

Doesn't this remind you of Agent Smith absorbing Neo? Brace for a reboot!

robbIE now more of an overpaid shill, than having (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746719)

anything to do with any stuff that really matters?

Better watch that innovation (5, Funny)

Craig Maloney (1104) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746727)

Microsoft better watch out! That GPL software might corrupt their innovation!

Re:Better watch that innovation (3, Funny)

niko9 (315647) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746841)

I thought the GPL gave you cancer? Have I been on prophylactic chemotherapy for naught?

Re:Better watch that innovation (0, Offtopic)

the_mad_poster (640772) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746912)

Have I been on prophylactic chemotherapy for naught?

I can say with the utmost certainty:

maybe.

Same old, same old from Microsoft (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746731)

Denigrate it loudly while duplicating it quietly.

Re:Same old, same old from Microsoft (5, Insightful)

prockcore (543967) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746886)

Denigrate it loudly while duplicating it quietly.

It's the opensource way!

Just an organizational change? (5, Insightful)

bartash (93498) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746733)

Is there any evidence that this is anything other then an organizational change? I mean apart from the thoughts of an analyst who doesn't really know? Analysts get compensated for getting their company's name in the press.

Ms (4, Interesting)

the_real_rs (727832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746734)

Maybe someday we can all work together and learn from each other. Linux got a few ideas from windows. and windows from linux. Hey if windows can be more stable and work more for the user, more power to Microsoft.

Re:Ms (4, Insightful)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746869)

I agree, this is amazing! If true, it would mean Microsoft is actually attempting to compete!

Linux has taken primarily good UI design from Windows, and now windows seems to be modeling Linux's layered and flexibe design.

It's SCO-kay (0)

ebusta (719367) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746738)

I wonder if SCO would give Microsoft's core the stamp of approval once it's completed in 25 years.

Re:It's SCO-kay (0, Offtopic)

Lane.exe (672783) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746863)

Let's think about this now -- where exactly will SCO be in 25 years?

C'mon... you know the answer!

That's right! Nonexistant! Good job!

OK then (4, Insightful)

Salsaman (141471) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746742)

"Part of their study has been on how Linux has been able to maintain a high level of consistency in the kernel while groups around it maintain maximum flexibility.

Maybe because it is open source ? The consistency surely comes from having the entire codebase to refer to, and the flexibility from people being free to suggest any patches they like to the kernel.

Not really. (4, Insightful)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746902)

I mean, I'm sure openness is a factor.. but from the beginning, things were this way.

I think it's more about focus.... or maybe lack of focus...

See, the kernel teams worries about the kernel, and exporting usable interfaces to that kernel. Not that interesting to Mom & Pop jones, but of great interest to other developers... like those who, say, build distributions.

MS takes a whole systems approach... the libraries and kernel and everything altogether.. they don't have a group just concened with releasing the best kernel... they have to meet whatever requirements happen internally.

It's flexible because in the open source world, the kernel team doesn't have to compromise for lazy app developers, or vice versa.

Social not Technical (5, Insightful)

Michael Crutcher (631990) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746743)

Looks to me like this article is saying that microsoft is looking to Linux development not because they believe that linux has technical aspects that they'd like to emulate (as many here might comment), but because they want to learn how to structure their organization to best develop the new OS core.

Microsoft might say that they admire the way that linux contributors interract, but I think it will be a cold day in hell before the admit that they're implementing technical features of linux.

Re:Social not Technical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746850)

They also don't want their developers looking at Linux code so as to insulate them from any potential GPL violations.

legacy support (2, Insightful)

Diaspar (319457) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746744)

Later windows versions always had a handicap of having all this legacy to support, and many design decisions were influenced by this. It's definately a step in the needed direction for them, to find out how to make the system flexible enough for new stuff while keeping the core relatively consistent.

FIRST SCO POST! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746749)

omg, haha dude will $CO sue Micro$oft now?!?!? loloolo

Interesting concept... (5, Insightful)

scovetta (632629) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746751)

I'm going to go against the grain and NOT make this an "I told ya so" MS-bash. From a business perspective, it makes sense for them to learn from Linux, just as it would make sense for Linux to learn things from MS. Each do things differently that work. It's generally regarded that Linux has a better core, better security, and fewer bloat-features that introduce vulnerabilities. It's also generally regarded that Microsoft has superior usability/UI. In the end, for my mom, Microsoft wins. If this new MS team can improve the core to the point where it's as good or better than Linux, then the only reason anyone would use Linux would be cost.

At the same time, Linux's usability has been improving, it'll be interesting to see what happens when MS and Linux converge to the point where they're both as usable AND both as secure/stable/etc.

Re:Interesting concept... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746833)

I know the answer to that....they'll both have 3% market share

That convergence might happen... (2, Interesting)

sean.peters (568334) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746876)

At the same time, Linux's usability has been improving, it'll be interesting to see what happens when MS and Linux converge to the point where they're both as usable AND both as secure/stable/etc.

And then you'd have two operating systems of more-or-less identical capability, except one is free and the other costs hundreds of dollars. Monopoly power is only going to get you so far in that situation.

Sean

Re:Interesting concept... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746920)

In the meantime, you can have a lil' sneak-peek preview here [apple.com]...

Re:Interesting concept... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746932)

It's also generally regarded that Microsoft has superior usability/UI. In the end, for my mom, Microsoft wins.

Yeah, because your mom probably learned on ms. The reason why it is preceived that way is because for most people, it is all they have ever known.

Study all you want.. (4, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746753)


.. they can't learn to have a love of what they do. That's a huge difference between Open Source and proprietary.

Re:Study all you want.. (1)

The_K4 (627653) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746812)

Microsoft (ands it's employees) DO have a love of what they do.....it's just that what they do is MAKE MONEY! :)

High level of consistency? (0, Troll)

burgburgburg (574866) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746756)

Microsoft doesn't need to study anybody to maintain a high level of consistency as regards the kernel. It is consistently bloated and buggy. It's first thing on the requirements doc and they keep up the effort every single day.

Heh (4, Funny)

CormacJ (64984) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746758)

First they ignore us
Then they despise us
Then they ridicule us
Then they become us...

sharing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746759)

Maybe they should learn to share first.

Interesting (5, Interesting)

fw3 (523647) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746760)

"creating a new central engineering division"

Microsoft is going to become more centralized to better compete with a competitor based highly distributed, decentralized development.

I'm amused, of course the proof will be in the bits.

At least they are thinking along the right path... (5, Insightful)

CokoBWare (584686) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746768)

If M$ won't adopt Linux, at least it will use ideas developed in the open source community to help Windows become a better operating system. Isn't that what we all want? Better operating systems?

Re:At least they are thinking along the right path (2, Interesting)

Atomizer (25193) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746862)

Isn't this Slashdot? I though we wanted: (Linux) World domination, fast.

Microsoft Math (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746769)

Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates has called Longhorn the biggest Microsoft release of the decade and bigger than Windows 95.

2006 - 1995 = 11 years. Oh yeah, Windows 95 didn't release until 1996.

Re:Microsoft Math (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746807)

Hey faghat -- first of all, Windows 95 was released in (late) 1995. Secondly, "the biggest Microsoft release of the decade" and "bigger than Windows 95" are separate, non-related statements. Learn to read, you homosexual.

News in History: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746771)

Microsoft's New Core OS Team Learning from Apple.

Oh, now I get it. (5, Funny)

Our Man In Redmond (63094) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746777)

Linux is anti-American, unconstitutional, hippie-dippie, probably communistic, causes cancer in laboratory animals . . .

and now Microsoft wants to be more like Linux. Got it.

It is only a matter of time... (0)

Dragoonkain (704719) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746779)

This only leads the way to a real merging between windows and linux. It is only a matter of time and resources before it happens. Microsoft is just trying to find out how to encorperate it all into 1 big package. Come back to this post in 10 years and you'll see my "I told you so" reply..

This only shows (1)

pbug (728232) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746783)

That microsoft is scared of linux. Because they want to know their 'enemy' in a sense. But also just from a pure techinical stand point is also good to know how other people do things so you can learn from them and improve on how you do things

Prelude to patent hassles? (1, Flamebait)

Rex Code (712912) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746784)

My immediate concern is that a huge company like Microsoft that owns patents on all kinds of trivial concepts will next be telling us, "Hey, we found the following Microsoft patented technologies in there while we were poking around! But don't worry, we're a nice company. Just get rid of the infringing code and we'll let it slide. Oh wait, that's 97.5% of your kernel by our estimates."

Hard to say though, as they haven't been that agressive before, and indeed came up on the short end of the stick in a recent patent dispute.

Re:Prelude to patent hassles? (1)

JamesP (688957) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746856)

Remember that the GPL is viral...

So the moment M$ people look at it, their brains begin to get all fuzzy and funny and before you know, everybody is coding a GPL Windows...

but but ... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746789)

According to the Microsoft apologists and mr Gates himself there is no innovation in Linux...

Soon to come: a new development process invented by and patented by Microsoft.

Funny thing is ... (4, Interesting)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746790)

This is the way that NT started. Dave had total control over the core (and the people) while Bill had control over the API on up. Then Bill took back control of all of it. Bill should have left Cutler in control of the core.

Makes sense if youre MS (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746796)

Seriously, If you were MS wouldnt you want to know how a bunch of wierdo hackers from around the world keep things like the kernel SANE ?

With all the development and patches, etc most of us take the kernel stability for granted.

MS Has absolute control over every aspect of their development and CANT EVEN COME CLOSE to the code procedures that surround kernel development.

Kinda funny such a diverse group hacker can build a proccess for kernel patches and updates that is superior to a company that has control over all aspects of their kernel development.

I would love to see the results of their studies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746813)

The same way The Cathedral And The Bazaar and the Halloween Documents gave us more insight on the way FOSS works, the result of their studies would probably be useful.

Article Time Travel? (0)

Koualla (704483) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746817)

Is it just me, or is this article back from the future? It's only 4:25am local time as I write this, but the article says it was posted at 5:16am.

Regards, Ross.

Center of Gravity (1)

KoolDude (614134) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746818)


The newly formed division, described by Microsoft as a "center of gravity for advancing engineering excellence within Windows,"

Isn't center of gravity the point to which all bodies around eventually bash into ? Now that Microsoft has agreed to it, let's continue with our bashing :)

Yes folks, it's called capitalism. (4, Insightful)

Exmet Paff Daxx (535601) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746823)

Red Hat, Inc. is now Microsoft's #1 competitor in the marketplace. Has Red Hat been studying Microsoft for years? One need only look at kernel support for NTFS or the Samba project to answer that. Now in order to keep up with this arms race, Microsoft must in turn study Linux in order to keep up.

Capitalism demands this fierce escalation: it's called competition.

Ctrl-C Ctrl-P == Studying? (1)

Bishop923 (109840) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746824)

Granted, you couldn't really just copy and paste Linux kernel code directly into Windows source, but this should be enough to get the tin-foil hat guys going...

Re:Ctrl-C Ctrl-P == Studying? (5, Interesting)

Unregistered (584479) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746922)

Windows coders are not allowed to get anywhere near linux (or any other code). If a win coder needs to use a linux box, it will have absolutely NO source code on there anywhere. Code contamination scares the hell out of ms becasue if they end up with contaminated code the will be liable for huge amounts in damages and need to rework a large portion of windows(cause everything is intentionally over-integrated) in order to replace the offending code.

Why not study Linux (1, Interesting)

Howler (17832) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746827)

Developers on both sides of the fence tend to take what they like best about the other and incorporate it into their own.

Take the the desktop GUI for example. Despite what many people think about M$ they did create a fairly easy to use and consistant user interface. Both KDE and Gnome keep implementing the little things that will help them be more consistant and useable. (they have come a long way!)

Perhaps what M$ hopes to learn is not only about the kernel as stated in the article, but how Linux does things in general. The current root/user paradigm seems to work a whole lot better if you ask me than to give Grandma root privs on her Windows machine only to have her accidently delete something pretty critical because an E-mail said to.

Bottom line is there is a lot to learn on both sides of the fence.

take this a little bit further (3, Interesting)

BigGerman (541312) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746831)

So you got a bunch of MS core people who are _encouraged_ to look at the Linux kernel.
They got some really bright people there you know.
And what that bunch of bright hackers would want to do pretty soon? Contribute. Just like that Microsoft fellow from the original Haloween documents described - he had the urge to make changes, to improve the open-source code he looked at.
Even it they are prohibited from doing so (which I doubt - engineers and lawyers don't mix), the certain cross-contamination of the ideas is bound to happen.
This will lead to the whole bunch of interesting things - from super-SCO-sized legal battle to Longhorn Linux.

"They have been studying Linux extensively..." (5, Interesting)

Kevin Burtch (13372) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746834)


"Part of their study has been on how Linux has been able to maintain a high level of consistency in the kernel while groups around it maintain maximum flexibility,"

MS, here's a clue: Stop using undocumented/proprietary hooks into your OS from your apps.

Linux is the way it is (in reference to the above quote) because people stick to the "API"... partly because there's no other way, but that's another topic/philosophy alltogether.

the assimilation of methods (4, Interesting)

TeamLive (699650) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746836)

Microsoft is at another point in its company evolution where it sees a good idea and assimilates it into it's business and product strategy. It is unsuprising, given the fact that the company has in the past profitted from the innovations of others by refining and mass marketing them (i.e. Windows came from observing the innovation of Apple and Xerox's PARC, Internet Explorer came from the observing of Netscape, and the continuing development of PocketPC which came from the observation of Palm.) One can now only hope that they actually implement the philosophy of open source development that has made Linux one of the most robust and flexible operating systems, or whether they simply copy features.... time will tell.

Release Date (3, Informative)

thebatlab (468898) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746839)

"By closely controlling the OS core, Microsoft will be able to better ensure that Longhorn will arrive on time and meet its quality and security objectives, Enderle said. He expects Longhorn to come out in the fourth quarter of 2005, provided that a beta becomes available as planned in 2004."

Looks like they're still looking at a 2006 release. (Come on, fourth quarter 2005 always means 2006).

The question is, will assembling this team help them meet that goal or will the initial organization of it take away some time and delay the project more?

I can't say from experience on what the effects of forming a new style of management to a project, no matter how capable that style is, will do as a project is underway but I'd assume there would be some hassles to start things off with and get the ball rolling.

who wants Longhorn? (2, Interesting)

rm_monterey (671976) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746842)

"Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates has called Longhorn the biggest Microsoft release of the decade and bigger than Windows 95." What's all the hoo hah about Longhorn? 64-bit support for the masses *who don't yet have 64-bit processors?
Well, maybe by the time it's finally released there will actually be some breakthrough for Windows equivalent to them adding TCP/IP stack in Win 95.

Rob Enderle is not a reliable source (5, Interesting)

gvc (167165) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746847)

Rob Enderle makes more media pronouncements than just about any other analyst. In general he has no expertise and no information on which to base his statements.

I would completely discount any report that uses him as a source.

Don't take my word for it. Use Google and judge his veracity and competence for yourself.

Studying the Linux Kernel model? or replicating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746857)

So does this mean they intend to revamp the windows/nt kernel to be more modular like Linux? And/or base the entire thing on how Linux is designed?

Recall that Rob Enderle=Microsoft Apologist (4, Interesting)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746866)

Note that Rob Enderle is the author of In Defense Of the Microsoft Monoculture [internetwk.com], which was highly debated [slashdot.org] on /. a couple months back. It surprises me that he should point out the consistency and flexibility of Linux, since his earlier writeup made him look as if he was paid my M$ to mouth major anti-Linux FUD.

Re: Ok Then (1)

shoemakc (448730) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746896)

The consistency surely comes from having the entire codebase to refer to, and the flexibility from people being free to suggest any patches they like to the kernel.

And the OS core group has no communication with the API and apps groups? If that was the case then I certainly wouldn't need a study to tell me something was very wrong.

-Chris

Breaking News!! (0, Offtopic)

JohnnyGTO (102952) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746907)

This just in: The SCO Group and Daryl McBride announced today a new lawsuit directed at Microsoft for even thinking like their software product, recently copied by the evil GPL. McBride says "If the software industry continues to steal our ideas, such as thinking, ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US!!!"

Nothing new. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7746908)

Microsoft is doing what they've always done. It's called Co-Opting...I'm supprised they haven't started this earlier.

They need a man like Linus at the helm (2, Interesting)

jhines (82154) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746913)

MS needs a really level headed guy at the helm, like great cars, great operating systems come from a single person's drive and motivation, not a committee.

He has the ability to say "no" in a way that doesn't upset everyone.

Dave Cutler of VMS and WinNT fame comes to mind also.

Answer to their question... (4, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 10 years ago | (#7746926)

"They have been studying Linux extensively. Part of their study has been on how Linux has been able to maintain a high level of consistency in the kernel while groups around it maintain maximum flexibility,"

I know why and they will never be able to achieve it.

Linux does not suffer from one crippling problem that EVERY big software company has.

Management and Marketing.

If you eliminate the managers, the PHB's and the marketing team from ever communicating to the programmers, then you can do this.

I have seen management utterly destroy some of the most amazing and elegant software ever made.
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