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AMD's 'Newcastle' Budget Athlon64 Chips Analyzed

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the that-was-just-noise dept.

AMD 266

Edward Scissorhands writes "CNET News.com reported on Thursday that AMD had released a new "budget" Athlon64 CPU. Appearing on the AMD roadmap under the codename of "Newcastle", these chips are identical to the 754-pin Athlon64 3200+ in every way except for the size of their L2 cache (512KB vs. 1MB). CNET suggests that some of these chips may be 3200's that don't pass QA as having full 1MB caches. Newcastle chips are about half the cost of their 1MB cached counterparts, though preliminary benchmarks from Anand indicate favourable performance/price."

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GNAA Member Penisbird has 14 INCHES! SUCK IT (-1, Troll)

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fascinating (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788531)

no, really.

i'm fascinated.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788532)

fp?

YOU LOSE ASSHOLE! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788838)

I'm sure (-1, Funny)

Pingular (670773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788537)

the people of Newcastle [newcastle.gov.u] will appreciate this.

Re:I'm sure (1)

Pingular (670773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788565)

Sorry, that should be Newcastle [newcastle.gov.uk]

I'm sure... (3, Funny)

TwistedSquare (650445) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788579)

the people of Newcastle [newcastle.gov.uk] (working link) will. Long has the North been associated with cheap ;-)

Re:I'm sure (-1, Offtopic)

Leffe (686621) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788608)

With a name like 'Pingular', you must surely be an insider, could you help me with the following piece of data. It is kind of confusing for someone that does not sleep with an AMD chip under his pillow. There's just too many numbers, I can't even decide on where to start.

Something I noticed though, is that there are random english words thrown in, I beleive it's to make the language 'cool'.

Speed Rating 3000+ 3200+ Unrated nratedActual CPU Speed 2.0Ghz 2.0GHz FX51 -- .2GHz x48 -- 2.2GHzx46 -- 2.0GHzx44 -- 1.8GHzx42 -- .6GHzx40 -- 1.4GHzL1 Cache 128k64k Code Cache+ 64k Data Cache 128k64k Code Cache + 64k ata Cache 128k64k Code Cache + 64k Data ache 28k64k Code Cache + 64k Data CacheL2 Cache 12kb 1024kb 1024kb 1024kbMemory Type nbuffered DDR Unbuffered DDR Registered or egistered ECC DDR Registered or Registered CC DDRMemory Speed Supported Up to DDR400 Upto DDR400 Up to DDR400 Up to DDR400 on ater models, Up to DDR333 on earlier modelsMaximumCPUs 1 1 1 xx-- 12xx -- 28xx -- 8On-Chip Memory Controller es es Yes YesHyper Transport Speed Upto 1.6GHz(800MHz Clock) Up to .6GHz(800MHzClock) Up to 1.6GHz(800MHz Clock) p to 1.6GHz(800MHz Clock)rocessor(s): AMD thlon64 3000+AMD Athlon64 3200+Intel Pentium 4 .2GHzIntel Pentium 4 3.0GHzAMD Athlon64 FX51RAM: x 512Mb OCZ 3500 Platinum Ltd2 x 512Mb Mushkin CCRegistered High Performance 2:3:2Hard Drive(s): eagate 120GB 7200 RPM (8MB Buffer)Video AGP & IDE us Master Drivers: VIA Hyperion 4.51 12/02/03)Intel Chipset DriversVideo Card(s): TIRadeon 9800 PRO 128MB (AGP 8X)Video Drivers: TICatalyst 3.10Operating System(s): Windows XPProfessional SP1Motherboards: Soltek L-K8AV2-RL (VIA K8T800 -- 754)Asus P4C800-E (Intel 75P -- 478)Asus SK8V (VIA K8T800 -- 940)

Re:I'm sure (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788695)

Pingular is a known troll and karma whore. Please mod his posts down every time you have the chance.

Thanks.

Many companies do this... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788541)

This is what many companies do. If certain chips cannot pass Q&A then remark them down and you do not lose your inventory.

cheers
Rick

Re:Many companies do this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788552)

So every so often, you'll get a gem amidst the coals.

And just in time for Xmas!

Re:Many companies do this... (3, Insightful)

GrenDel Fuego (2558) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788591)

And just in time for Xmas!

Not quite. They're on the roadmap for Q1, which would just miss christmas at the earliest.

Re:Many companies do this... (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788643)

If you've been following AMD at all in the last few years, you'll know that roadmaps are a very poor estimate. They will make a press release stating that such-and-such is in production, but you might see it in-stock only 6 months later by the time they get it right.

Pisses me off too, I've been aching for a worthy replacement to this old XP2000, but there hasn't been any meaningful increases in clock speed yet. AMD64 may be the answer once they get to 3.2ghz and up.

Re:Many companies do this... (5, Informative)

Zathrus (232140) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788657)

They're on the roadmap for Q1, which would just miss christmas at the earliest.

To be technical, Q1 would just miss this year at the earliest.

That said -- you didn't read the article, did you (feign shocked surprise)? The chips aren't supposed to be out yet according to the roadmap, but they are. You can order them at a reseller [newegg.com] near you (they're available cheaper elsewhere, but I like vendors that never, ever give me trouble, ship on time (or ahead of time), and have good return policies) right now and AMD added them to their pricing sheets on Dec 15. So it's an official product that got out ahead of time.

Of course, unless you have someone who stocks them locally you'll be hardpressed to actually get it before Christmas. There's always overnight shipping, but that'll eat a large chunk of the money you're saving over the 3200+.

On Topic "In Soviet Russia" Post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788721)

They're on the roadmap for Q1, which would just miss christmas at the earliest.

In Russia (Soviet or otherwise), Christmas is on January 6. That is in Q1.

Re:Many companies do this... (1)

mocm (141920) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788729)

They are already out here in Germany. I still can't decide if i should get one now, or wait for the 939 socket.

Well, my time-travelling webshop... (4, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788930)

Not quite. They're on the roadmap for Q1, which would just miss christmas at the earliest.

...has 5 in stock [komplett.no] , and that's here in Norway even. So it might not arrive before Christmas, but if you hurry you'll probably still go 64 bit in 2003 :)

I'm perfectly happy with the PC I have though. Usually, whenever Christmas is nearing I get questions about whether I'd want something for my computer. This year, for the first time in as long as I can remember, the answer is "not really". No big itch to scratch... I have CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD enough, broadband, most everything really.

I must say, I'd still like to improve noise and style though. Performance, well it's not that critical anymore. But the noise is pretty bad, even after I replaced my WD disks with Seagate. And I admit a Shuttle XPC + LCD looks ten times better than my beige box. Maybe next PC, but that one is not now. Not for a while yet...

Kjella

Re:Many companies do this... (4, Informative)

Sivar (316343) | more than 10 years ago | (#7789044)

Not quite. They're on the roadmap for Q1, which would just miss christmas at the earliest.

Roadmap or not, you can buy 512K cache Athlon64s right now [newegg.com] .

Darn... (1)

Coaster-Sj (614973) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788543)

They are out just a bit too late for the christmas rush.

Really? (1)

Slash Subscriber * (734839) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788923)

I hadn't considered upgrade CPU's to be a big contender for stocking stuffers or under the tree, but maybe I'm just out of touch...

bad bad bad (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788562)

a processor named after a beer?

Re:bad bad bad (5, Funny)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788783)

Why not? They already a version of Linux is named after a beer (Redhat 7.0=Guinness). So all they need is motherboard named after a snack, then you've got a whole party:
Yes, I've got Newcastle with Pretzels. They're running with Guinness.

Re:bad bad bad (2, Informative)

the_bahua (411625) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788793)

An excellent beer to namesake your chip with, though. Smooth, reliable, and makes you dizzy.

Bad, but actually... (1)

JawFunk (722169) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788874)

I think they dedicated these "flawed" chips to the Newcastle Stock Exchange [newsx.com.au] . Fits the Australian profile of doing business.

[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (4, Informative)

unborracho (108756) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788564)

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTYw [hardocp.com]

Kyle of HardOCP makes a bunch of speculations as to AMD's purpose for releasing these chips, and comes to basically the same conclusions that CNet does.

He sugguests that these chips are also just the ones that only had partial working cache (a portion of the cache was working, the other portion was not) and to save money they are selling these as a "budget" chip. Seems like a good idea to me!

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (5, Interesting)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788611)


That's pretty standard practice in hardware manufacturing. It also explains the reasons why some hardware (Radeon 9500, etc) can be "unlocked" and turned into the real thing. They don't actually test "every" part at first, just samples of a batch. If X% fail the full spec, the entire batch is remarked as reduced-spec parts. They they are individually tested at the lower spec. It stands to reason that a certain number of these part would have passed the more rigorous full-spec tests, thus us "cheap" buyers can sometimes get lucky and get a nice piece of hardware for a small price.

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (2, Informative)

Rhubarb Crumble (581156) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788731)

That's pretty standard practice in hardware manufacturing.

Going back IIRC to the 386SX, which was a 386DX with a nonfunctioning (and hence deactivated) FPU....

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788773)

Indeed. I would imagine that most serious hardware manufactures have a multi-tiered plan for part failures. If part X fails, try it as a Y. If that fails, try it as a Z. Anything to reduce the amount of discarded products...

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788777)

Close, the 486SX was a 486DX with the pin(s?) for the FPU ground off...the 386SX was an implementation of the 32-bit 386 instruction set on a 16-bit data bus. The 386SX could be implemented easily in motherboards originally designed for the 286 CPU, so it was attractive for those manufacturers who wanted to get products to market quickly/save on design by reusing an existing design.

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (5, Informative)

Zathrus (232140) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788817)

Argh. No.

The 386SX was a completely and utterly different chip from the 386DX. The SX only had a 16-bit data path while the DX had a full 32-bit data path. This is not a minor change in the chip or board layout -- in fact, one of the major reasons that Intel released the 386SX was to reduce transition costs from 286 motherboards -- there's considerably less difference between 286 and 386SX than 286 and 386. The 386SX had no feature differences -- it was just slower.

I believe what you're thinking of is 486DX vs 486SX. The 486DX was the first Intel chip (in the 80x86 line) to integrate the FPU onboard. The 486SX didn't have the FPU, or the FPU was disabled post-manufacture (most likely due to failures in the FPU module, while the rest of the chip was fine). This is something that can be done during product test.

The funny thing about that was the poor schmucks who bought a 486SX and then decided they wanted the FPU after all... there was a second processor socket onboard, and when the "FPU" was plugged in it simply disabled the primary CPU completely -- the "FPU" chip was a full fledged 486DX. IIRC, there was another varient where the second CPU sat on top of the first CPU (and disabled it), but I can't recall for sure.

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (1)

Rhubarb Crumble (581156) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788858)

I believe what you're thinking of is 486DX vs 486SX.

Damn, you're right.

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (2, Informative)

ocelotbob (173602) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788977)

IIRC, there was another varient where the second CPU sat on top of the first CPU (and disabled it), but I can't recall for sure.
Such a chip existed, but it was for upgrading older systems, like the 286 to a 486. Obviously because other parts of the chipset weren't as fast, the performance wasn't the same as a true mobo swap, but it was good enough for some people. Such upgrades usually used the 486slc2 chip. Information on these chips, much like the chips themselves, is a bit hard to find, but I remember a bit of temptation to get one back in the day.

Re:[H]ardOCP has had this story for a few days now (2, Interesting)

Bun (34387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788757)

Tell me about it. With a resistor mod [darkcrow.co.kr] , and a quick BIOS flash [3dchipset.com] , I turned my 9500 into a FireGL X1. Doesn't OC at all well any more, but it was still worth it. Rock stable with everything I could test it....maybe I should have bought a lottery ticket instead.... ;-)

Sure, until you are... (2, Insightful)

cnelzie (451984) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788980)

...the poor sap that can barely afford to spend the extra money on the 'value' board, you listen to someone's spiel about how you can 'unlock' the 'magic' or something and you end up frying your once perfectly good, yet low-spec'd board and are stuck having to go back to your old parts, if those aren't fried as well.

Re:Sure, until you are... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7789010)

Well, at least you're not bitter.. =P

Looks like AMD.. (5, Interesting)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788573)

.. has another winner on their hands. Excellent performance at a fraction of the price. 2 GHz, 64-bit performance for about $200 is nothing to sneeze at. Bring on the 64-bit apps/drivers! (And, of course, the MS OS.)

Re:Looks like AMD.. (1)

lcde (575627) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788674)

(And, of course, the MS OS.)

[flame]insert flame here[/flame]

:D

Re:Looks like AMD.. (4, Insightful)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788839)


=P Well, like it or not, everyone knows it's Windows that currently drives the consumer market. The release of a Microsoft 64-bit OS is what will determine if/when the 64-bit desktop market takes off. The release of XP 64, followed by 64-bit aware device drivers will start the snowball. I would love to see some applications written to take advantage of those extra registers! (Linux apps aside.)

Re:Looks like AMD.. (1)

lcde (575627) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788942)

I fully agree with you. Just trying to get rid of the bad case of the mondays :).

I've thought for some time now that 64-bit will take off after the gamers latch on. I'm really surpised that MS is taking so long to release a ia32-64 version. I don't remember them taking this long for Intel's ia64.

You would think that with Apple's G5s they would hurry up and get something out to make it seem like Apple's idea isn't that special.

That would just seem like good marketing to me.

When I was your age... (0)

Renegrade (698801) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788946)

"I would love to see some applications written to take advantage of those extra registers! (Linux apps aside.)"

<Abe Simpson> When I was your age, sonny, we used Motorola 68K CPUs which had sixteen registers (address and data) instead of eight like in those x86 units. And they were all 32-bit in all models of 68K, I tell you! And never you mind that linear 32-bit addressing... Why, back then you could go to a movie, eat at a fancy restaurant, and buy a gallon of gas all for a nickel... Zzzzzz..</Abe Simpson>

Ask Slashdot: Minolta Dimage Z1 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788581)

Has anyone used the Minolta Dimage Z1 and if so what was your experience with it? What is the Linux compatibility like?

AMD changing pin # anyway (5, Interesting)

3DKnight (589972) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788583)

after 2004, the 754-pin sockets will make way for their new 939-pin sockets. AMD has said that they will continue upgrades for 754-pin 64-bit chips up to i think 3700+ After that you will need to buy a 939 pin motherboards. Though I wonder what the shelf life for the 754 pins are, since not that many programs can even make use of 64bit cpus yet.

Re:AMD changing pin # anyway (4, Informative)

unborracho (108756) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788632)

There haven't been any official statements that their new processors are going 939-pin.. that is a speculation by a few highly-voiced individuals and off-the-record statements

Re:AMD changing pin # anyway (5, Informative)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788644)

well since they run 32 bit code natively and FASTER than the top of the line P4, I would say the shelf life is good.

Re:AMD changing pin # anyway (4, Informative)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788811)

As it is the 9xx pin FX jobs don't really have that much of a reason to exist yet because the performance increase is marginal, maybe 5%. Sometimes dual channel actually slows things down by a percent or two. I hope that this changes before the 7xx pin version goes away. I imagine that at a higher clock the difference becomes more noticable.

The only reason to get a 9xx pin chip is to get multiprocessing in the form of Opteron.

Just what I was waiting for (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788596)

This is a very good incentive to go 64 bit. I was thinking of getting a 2500 Barton, since my 1800 finally kicked it last week when the cooling fan gave out (this was right after a re-format, so the temperature monitoring system was not installed yet). However, since this came out, it might be a good time to go 64 bit. The chip still packs punch, so its not really what we would tend to think of when the term "budget" comes up (AMD Duron...Intel Celly). Plus, it won't be that expensive to replace if you take the OC too far.

Re:Just what I was waiting for (4, Insightful)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788650)


Yeah, it makes you reconsider that Athlon XP 2500+ purchase. 64-bit is temping, but you have to keep in mind that the 754-pinout on the chip is doomed. AMD already announced that they will move to a 939-pinout for most future 64s (Opterons are 940, so I assume they are just removing the "multiple-cpu" pin.) If that's the case, you may not have a very long upgrade path (3700?)

Re:Just what I was waiting for (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788682)

Perhaps I was mistaken. There have been other posts indicating that AMD did not officially announce this, but rather it is just a popular rumor. Might be good to find out before you purchase.

Re:Just what I was waiting for (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788697)

Normally I find that by the time I'm ready to upgrade the CPU that I'm ready for a new motherboard with the new bells and whistles. (Like SATA)

Re:Just what I was waiting for (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788728)

Fortuantely for me, I have a relatively new 333MHz FSB MB, but only an XP 1700+ CPU. That gives me a pretty big upgrade path for next year or so. Maybe even 2 (Barton 2500+ soon, followed by a Barton 3200 in the next year or 2.) Combine that with at least 2 video card upgrades plus RAM and I'm set for some decent cheap computing for a couple of years at least.

Re:Just what I was waiting for (5, Insightful)

Coaster-Sj (614973) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788743)

I know some people are conecerned about having large upgrade paths but I find that I'm really not one of them any more.

Usually by the time a processor drops in price enough that I think it'd be worth replacing an older CPU there is a new FSB or something that makes me want a new motherboard + ram to go with it.

Lately when I've been buying computers I've came to the conclusion that Motherboard, Processor, and Ram are pretty much a package that will never be upgraded independantly (Short of adding more Ram). Unless I have a processor die I'm really not worried about changing it.

Re:Just what I was waiting for (1)

maraist (68387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788853)

Anymore, the vid-card, sound-card and high-perf ethernets are the only things I care about. MB + CPU + Mem + Case become an old Linux machine / firewall / vncserver (for aim).

Considering that the average MB+CPU is only $200, this isn't a bad deal.

Roadmap? QA? Preliminary Benchmarks? Fascinating. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788604)

No wait, the other thing: tedious.

You always disable half the cache! (1)

Saville (734690) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788613)

I remember this back in the PentiumII/Celeron days, but does this happen anymore? Has anybody looked at the chip to see if it is any smaller or the same size as its bigger brother?

Re:You always disable half the cache! (1)

Saville (734690) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788641)

Opps. :)

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTYw

"AMD did also verify that the "new" core is 193mm2 in die size. This is the same size as specified on the original 1MB L2 Athlon 64 cores as noted here back in September of this year. "

Does 512k vs 1 meg cache make much diff? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788623)

Does 512k vs 1 meg cache make much diff...what kind of performance hit would you see?

Re:Does 512k vs 1 meg cache make much diff? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788660)

If an application is frequently accessing a reasonably small set of code and data, and the total size of the accessed code and data is less than the size of the L2 cache, then the application can run from within the cache, which is much faster than main memory. The size of the L2 cache directly affects the point at which this speed benefit can be realized.

Re:Does 512k vs 1 meg cache make much diff? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788833)

Er, you could read the article. It's right there in the graphs. (Short version: not much.)

We reviewed this days ago (5, Insightful)

ruiner5000 (241452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788626)

Didn't we? Athlon 64 3000+ review [amdzone.com] .

In conclusion the Athlon 64 3000+ is one of the best CPUs AMD has never announced. It makes a sub $1,000 system that is 64 bit capable easy to reach, and is able to perform quite admirably even with half of the cache of the other AMD64 CPUs. Will AMD make more 512kb cache Athlon 64s in the near future? How long will Socket 754 continue? Is this 3000+ an overclocker of merit? Stay tuned. For now if you have been craving for a powerful and cheap system with 64 bit onboard then the Athlon 64 3000+ is your CPU. It has no competition in its class, and likely will not for months to come.

Let's see, 1 year since Slashdot has approved a story I've submitted. Let's keep the streak alive! ;) HP shipping Mandrake biz PCs. Who cares!

Re:We reviewed this days ago (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788678)

The irritating part is that they post the utter CRAP that Hot Hardware writes and don't post your much better reviews.

Re:We reviewed this days ago (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788944)

As bad as Hot Hardare reviews can be, I prefer them to the fanboy drivel at AMDZone.

Re:We reviewed this days ago (1)

Saville (734690) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788985)

Maybe it's because of the generally grumpy tone found on the main news page of amdzone?

I didn't know HP was shipping Mandrake. I wish that had made it as a story. :(

price? (5, Informative)

Nate Fox (1271) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788640)

$213USD seems to be the lowest on pricewatch, for those who are wondering
http://www.pricewatch.com/1/3/5867-1.htm [pricewatch.com]

It's all Bush's fault (5, Funny)

Luscious868 (679143) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788646)

This move by AMD is clearly the result of Intel not contributing enough to Bush's reelection fund. Bush and his evil neo-con allies have it in for Intel and are using AMD as a front to destroy it. No blood for processor preformance!

Ha ha ... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788710)

I don't know what's funnier ... your comment or the possibility that, given the political leanings of a lot of the people who post here, some people will think your serious and not realize it's a joke.

Re:Ha ha ... (2, Funny)

Luscious868 (679143) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788725)

I don't know what's funnier ... your comment or the possibility that, given the political leanings of a lot of the people who post here, some people will think your serious and not realize it's a joke.

:-) ... hehe .... I know ...

Re:It's all Bush's fault (4, Funny)

ed__ (23481) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788929)

uhhh, maybe a little blood. i can always use a faster processor

some of us (0)

unbiasedbystander (660703) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788654)

for those of us who still have our heards stuck in the 32 bit realm, just pretend they're giving us the choice between 256K or 512K...

Cheap CPU's get cheaper. (3, Interesting)

dilvie (713915) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788662)

This is good news. The next month or so will be a great time to buy those boring 32-bit CPU's that nobody cares about anymore. Moore's law rocks.

Anandtech and other review sites (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788671)

Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but are sites like Anandtech trying to be useless? At least they do include comparisons to the P4 in this review, where often they don't give you enough context to really compare across the board, but now they've switched to using Flash for the charts. Why? It's not like they're "live" or anything.

Compared to decent, thoughtful sites like StorageReview, where they at least they let you compare any model to any model, I hope Anand and the other forever-amateur just-enough-info-to-make-you-think-its-worth-buyin g sites soon sink into the mud.

Re:Anandtech and other review sites (1)

Nasarius (593729) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788830)

You're right, it's absolutely insane to use Flash in this case. The charts aren't interactive. Why exactly can't they just store their pretty graphics as JPEGs or whatever and make everyone happier?

Re:Anandtech and other review sites (2, Informative)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788915)


Obviously, to keep other sites and everyone else from "stealing" their charts. I know it's a pain in the ass, but Anand is a pretty large and profitable review site. If their charts were just JPGs, what's to stop some unscrupulous site from snatching their pics, changing the colors in a batch job, and reposting the results as their own? Granted, they could probably just screen-cap their pics now, but that involves a little more work.

Re:Anandtech and other review sites (2, Informative)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 10 years ago | (#7789164)

They can still copy the Flash files as well. Makes no bloody difference, expect they are using non W3C standards. Bad, very bad.

If it didn't pass QA (1)

morelife (213920) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788686)

Why would anyone want it?

The cache is allocated physically. It isn't a question of it having 1023 Kbytes instead of 1024 so then being sold as a 512K model...

Re:If it didn't pass QA (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788747)

Cache is not all or nothing. Let's say 934k of 1024k work. Turn off 512k including all the non-working memory and voila -- sellable budget processor. AMD chose the 50% line arbitrarily -- they could have chosen 75% and gotten fewer, higher performance processors or 25% and gotten more, lower performance processors.

They can't actually tell you how much of the cache works because OEMs like to sell identical machines, i.e. all with 512k cache, not 512k cache or more.

Re:If it didn't pass QA (2, Informative)

cK-Gunslinger (443452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788754)

I'm not sure, but I would think that as long as they could find 512K of contiguous cache that passes, they could use just that without any major modifications.

Re:If it didn't pass QA (1)

Rhubarb Crumble (581156) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788801)

Why would anyone want it?

Because 99% of the CPU works, and you know which bits don't, and can live without them?

The cache is allocated physically. It isn't a question of it having 1023 Kbytes instead of 1024 so then being sold as a 512K model...

Maybe not 1023K, but something along those lines it exactly what it is. I'm guessing here but presumably the cache part of the die is divided into cells (say, 32 cells of 32K each, or whatever) and if more than half the cells are working, you can use half of them and map them transparently so the processor 'sees' a single 512K cache rather than a 1024K cache with holes in it.

Net result: instead of having a broken CPU which you'd throw away, you now have a perfectly-functional-if-slightly-slower CPU. Makes sense or what?

Re:If it didn't pass QA (4, Informative)

Kazymyr (190114) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788821)

The cache is allocated in blocks. There are 2 512k blocks, and if there are bad cells in just one of them, it is disabled and the chip is sold with only 1 512k block enabled. If there are bad cells in both, they throw it away.

The new 'dual celeron'? (2, Interesting)

Henk Poley (308046) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788698)

Could this become the new 'dual celeron' like a couple of years ago?

Re:The new 'dual celeron'? (1)

cloudmaster (10662) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788812)

After you connect a couple o fleads on the top of the chip with heavy pencil lines, of course... :)

BTW, I like my dual Celeron machine. Abit BP6 may be a crappy, unstable board, but I still like it.

Bah (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788713)

This 'Newcastle' is nothing more than a Duron with a waffle iron attached to it.

Not quite fresh news... (3, Informative)

Kazymyr (190114) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788719)

Overclockers.com did a mini-feature on the Newcastles last week, including why you shouldn't buy one too soon.

Re:Not quite fresh news... (4, Informative)

Kazymyr (190114) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788762)

Link for the above [overclockers.com] .

Re:Not quite fresh news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788825)

It Lies.

You can always say that holding off for 6 months till the next product cycle is going to yield better results. The biggest issue is that a rolling analysis like that means you never get your CPU that you want and the reviewer got his for free....

Re:Not quite fresh news... (1)

Kazymyr (190114) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788846)

It's not about getting better results, it's about AMD's pricing scheme. Go read the article.

How many pins is too many??? (3, Interesting)

manganese4 (726568) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788750)

Given current mechanical properties of the materials that encase the actual chip, the connections from the chip to the pin and the ability to insert chip into a motherboard, is there any impending barrier to the number of pins for future chips?

AMD is overpriced (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788782)

Used to buy AMD chips, not any more. Intel now provides better price/performace ration on 32-bit Intel P4 2.8(!) GHz outperforms AMD Athlon 64 3200+ on most tests.

Ummm...did you RTFA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788850)

And look at their test results? Apparently not, because the 3200 outperforms Intel's 3.2GHz. Fucking moron.

Re:AMD is overpriced (3, Interesting)

voss (52565) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788866)

Maybe on taste tests(youre not supposed eat THOSE chips) , but most real world tests show the Athlon 64 3200 going neck and neck with the P4EE (a jury rigged chip with 2mb of cache that sells for $974 on pricewatch. The only way a pentium 4 2.8 could outperform an athlon 64 is if the Athlon 64 was on a PCchips motherboard and I think the Athlon would beat the Pentium 4 2.8 even then! :P

Re:AMD is overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7789156)

> Maybe on taste tests

Not really. Go through the tests performed during THG review of Opteron and Athlon64.

Intel P4 2.8(!) GHz outperforms AMD Athlon 64 3200+ on almost all tests.

See http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/index.htm l

Is it not an extra bonus that it's 64 Bit (1, Insightful)

XMichael (563651) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788823)

Did the article not miss one MAJOR item in the review ---> the Processor is 64 bit capable, taking into account that Windows and nearly all games arn't ready to take advantage of it, this processor will continue to set performance standards as the software becomes 64 bit ready?

Whoop, I hope I understand that correctly (-;

Re:Is it not an extra bonus that it's 64 Bit (4, Interesting)

The One KEA (707661) | more than 10 years ago | (#7789062)

Yes, but conversely Linux can take advantage of it - SuSE, Mandrake, Red Hat and Gentoo all have functioning offerings available for purchase or download.

The only game I know of off the top of my head is Epic's Unreal Tournament 2003.

Either way, the Athlon 64 3000+, IMO, might just be what AMD is looking for to really break into the market. If the price goes below $200, then things will definitely start to get interesting for Intel.

The origin of the name Newcastle (5, Interesting)

andy666 (666062) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788884)

In Moby Dick, Newcastle is an assistant to the navigator who does all the computations.

Re:The origin of the name Newcastle (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7789054)

Correct, but not the reason why AMD chose the name. Consider the others:

Athens
Troy
San Diego
Winchester
Paris
Odessa
Dublin
Oakville
Egypt...

I would wager that Newcastle was chosen because it was a place, but it's kinda cool that it has another link to computing. Are there any computer links for the others I wonder (apart from Winchester)?

Low-priced alternative (4, Interesting)

dorlthed (700641) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788902)

I like this idea, and from a product-line standpoint, it's a good one. After the Athlon XP line started, I sort of missed the situation with the Thunderbird/Duron, where there was always a low-priced alternative for budget systems.

Perhaps now they will create a sort of "64-bit Duron," a lower-priced and less-powerful version of the Athlon 64. This way, in the future, if I want to create a bargain version of a AMD64 computer for a family member or friend, or buy one, there is a cheaper processor available for such a system.

I sort of missed having that alternative available; this creates a bit of processor nostalgia for me :p

hmmm.... (4, Interesting)

theMerovingian (722983) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788905)


These 'reject' chips might be the reason Emachines offers such a cheap 64 bit computer. [com.com]

"32bit computing is dead" (5, Insightful)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7788907)

... or so claimed AMD. Maybe this is why - they are releasing 64-bit chips at prices comparable to mid-range 32-bit ones! Way to go AMD :-)

I have no particular beef with Intel, btw, it's just that AMD always seem to aim more at value for money. I like that :-)

Simon.

Mmmm, Newcastle... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7788949)

Does the label read:

"Made with sand from the banks of the Tyne"?

Why Aye Man! (3, Funny)

turgid (580780) | more than 10 years ago | (#7789042)

AMD processors, designed by James T. Nail and fabricated on Tyneside.

Crocodile shooooes!

But..... (0, Redundant)

defaultXIX (106977) | more than 10 years ago | (#7789146)



Does it run linux?



ducks and runs for cover...

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