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China's War Against Wires

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the stephensonian-detritus dept.

The Internet 244

hodet writes "On sections of Beijing Road, you can barely see the sky. On Tibet Road, they dangle in garden-hose rolls and knots intricate enough to confound a Boy Scout. Over on Hefei Street, one enterprising apartment dweller even used them to hang-dry selected cuts of meat. Tech-happy Shanghai, the most wired city in China, has a problem: wires. Telephone wires. Fiber-optic wires. Electrical wires. Wires no one can seem to identify. Black wires. Blue wires. Magenta wires. They're everywhere, and they're gumming up the works."

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GNAA's War Against Heterosexuality (-1, Offtopic)

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Re:GNAA's War Against Heterosexuality (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793140)

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Re:GNAA's War Against Heterosexuality (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793145)

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Re:GNAA's War Against Heterosexuality (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793183)

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Re:GNAA's War Against Heterosexuality (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793328)

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Re:GNAA's War Against Heterosexuality (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793409)

dick

in your eye

thank you.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793034)

frost pist!!!

Actually.. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793039)

Those words are from Ted Anthony, not hodet.

Really? (2, Interesting)

gostats (647325) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793040)

I though that was just real in the "imaginary world of cell phone commercials". (At least on TV it is!) -You won't understand this post if: 1. You've never seen the cellphone commercial I referenced. 2. Your tivo can skip all commercials so maybe you did see it but it looked like a commercial for spagetti instead.

Not that big a problem (3, Interesting)

Amiga Lover (708890) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793048)

Personally I've never been bothered by wires up above me. I'd rather have them up there and instantly accessible than deal with the crap of having lawn, road, path and other services dug up, just so a couple of people on the street can see the sky.

Hint. You can see the sky anyway, wires or no wires. Wasted effort aiming for underground, if you ask me. Wireless tech is a good replacement, but isn't going to work everywhere.

Re:Not that big a problem (5, Insightful)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793062)

Did you read the same article I did?

They are up in the sky, and they *aren't* instantly accessible. Above or below ground isn't the problem, so much as that they have intersections with 30+ pairs of wires running across them. Who do they belong to? Where do they connect? No one knows!

If no one comes to claim them, they will be cut. *That* is the heart of the article, the simplification, regulation, and control of the wires. Not whether it's above ore below ground. It's only written to seem that way.

Re:Not that big a problem (1)

aardwolf204 (630780) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793250)

Who do they belong to? Where do they connect? No one knows!

What I would like to know is, what are the wires that follow train tracks? Ancient telegraph lines perhaps? Who owns them? Are they still used? If not, why the hell are they still there?

Re:Not that big a problem (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793373)

What I would like to know is, what are the wires that follow train tracks?

If it is an electrified line, then they are the power for the train. If not, then they are probably there from where the track was run on overhead power at some stage in the past.

That's the case here in Australia anyway, perhaps it's different stateside.

Re:Not that big a problem (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793066)

> Hint. You can see the sky anyway, wires or no wires.

hint. radiation. I sure want as less of that as I can get.

Re:Not that big a problem (3, Funny)

gantrep (627089) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793084)

Radiation? What radiation? You mean electromagnetic radiation? Just put on your tinfoil hat and run a wire from it to a cold water pipe and you'll be fine.

Re:Not that big a problem (5, Funny)

LittleBigLui (304739) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793204)

run a wire from it to a cold water pipe


that's one more wire radiating electromagnetic dirt! can't we make that grounding wireless?

Re:Not that big a problem (4, Informative)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793081)

Most power in the UK is delivered to homes via underground cables (although the 132,000 V national grid stuff is nearly all on pylons). The problem with running local cables overhead, besides appearance, is that storms tend to bring down trees, which pull down any nearby cables. The big pylons are well out of the way of trees.

Lots of digging up roads though (5, Interesting)

rpjs (126615) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793269)

It's not just power that we put underground - the only overhead infrastructure you see in an average British street is BT telephone wires and then usually only the last bit from the nearest telephone pole to the home.

However, the downside is that what with utility privatisation and deregulation, we now have over 100 companies with a statutory right to dig up the roads as when they require. This means we often get cases of roads being dug up by company A, resurfaced and then a couple of days later getting dug up again by Company B. IIRC there are some roads in London that have been subject to works for more than 50% of the time in recent years.

The govt keeps legislating to make the utilities co-ordinate with each other (I remember working on the Street Works Act system for the local authority I used to work for back in the mid-90s) but it never seems to have much effect. The latest wheeze is "lane rental" - allowing utilities to dig as they want but making them pay for the economic cost of the disruption to traffic that they cause.

Mind you, I do think it looks nicer having everything underground. I find the overhead electric cables they have in the suburban US quite ugly.

Re:Lots of digging up roads though (5, Interesting)

atomico (162710) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793359)

In many european town/city centres, to avoid constant digging and re-digging, narrow tunnels are built where power and communication cables, along with gas and water pipes, are neatly racked along the tunnel walls. It is the typical case of high upfront investment paying off over the following decades: no more digging, no more overhead cables.

Re:Lots of digging up roads though (5, Funny)

rpjs (126615) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793374)

That sounds like far too sensible an idea to ever catch on in the UK!

Re:Lots of digging up roads though (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793380)

The UK USA aliance is a shitehole, thats why i left it along time ago. Never looked back at that dump.

I say pack the bags and fuck the UK, im not an indigenent or nationlistic arsehole like the rest of the fanboys.

Re:Lots of digging up roads though (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793442)

Perhaos, but it works. Where I live in the U.S. everything was underground and all in conduits. The only time they ever dug up the street or yards were to lay conduit along with required pull-string.

Its a great idea! I'm shocked more people don't do it.

I used to live in another part of this country that did the same thing but it seems to be pretty rare, its a shame. Ahh well, eventually people may learn, although I doubt it.

Re:Not that big a problem (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793148)

Here is an idea - instead of constantly fawning over China, why doesn't slashdot run a story about their brutal imprisonment and torture of Falun Gong followers?

Re:Not that big a problem - yes it is, with photos (5, Informative)

tedshultz (596089) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793195)

The wires are such a mess that they would be considered a clear safety hazard by most peoples standards. I was in Shanghai (one of the most advanced cities in china) and I took some photos of both how low the wires were [wisc.edu] (as low at 4 feet off the ground!) and the over head rats nest [wisc.edu] . There was worse, I just didn't have my camera at the time.

Re:Not that big a problem - yes it is, with photos (-1, Offtopic)

fruey (563914) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793445)

Sarah is quite cute [wisc.edu] .

Kudos if that's your lady, dude.

Re:Not that big a problem (1)

nathanh (1214) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793240)

Personally I've never been bothered by wires up above me. I'd rather have them up there and instantly accessible than deal with the crap of having lawn, road, path and other services dug up, just so a couple of people on the street can see the sky.

Above-ground wires do bother me. I live in an area with underground power, underground telephone and underground cable. The landscape looks great when there are no cables to obscure the view. I really notice the difference when I visit Sydney or Melbourne; their overhead cables are everywhere! It's very ugly.

Of course, I live in a neighbourhood where nearly everybody has a front garden and people take pride in the appearance of their homes. If you like to live in a techno-squalor then sure, it probably doesn't mean much to you.

Re:Not that big a problem (4, Interesting)

misterpies (632880) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793307)


Actually these days (in countries with a modern infrastructure - so excluding most of the US) underground wires are run through multipurpose conduits rather than just being laid individually. You only have to dig up the road once -- to lay the conduit. After that it's a simply task simply to pull across new wires (and pull out old ones) from one manhole to the next - there are special machines for threading them through the holes.

Most of the time when the road is dug up, it's to repair services such as water, sewage and gas - not really the sort of thing you can run overhead anyway.

Who'd of known... (5, Funny)

Ignis Flatus (689403) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793052)

... that stealing cable TV would be such a problem in a Communist country?

Re:Who'd of known... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793385)


Join us now and share the software;
You'll be free, hacker's, youll be free.
x2

Hoarder's may get pile's of money,
That is true, hacker's, that is true.
But they cannot help their neighbour's;
Thats not good, hacker's, thats not good.

When we have enough free software
At our call, hacker's, at our call,
Well throw out those dirty license's
Ever more, hacker's, ever more.

Join us now and share the software;
Youll be free, hacker's, youll be free.
x2

take that ass to the floor (-1, Flamebait)

erichmjansen (731836) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793053)

someone should hang hammocks and rent that shit out.

Looks Like... (5, Funny)

VariableSanity (578725) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793054)

Why does this article make me want to look behind my desk? I think its the picture of clothes hanging from the wires... maybe that is where my right sock went!

Re:Looks Like... (4, Funny)

Amiga Lover (708890) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793060)

I lost a pair of glasses, for nearly 3 months I had to go without them.

I found them eventually, hanging on a piece of cat5 just below sight behind my desk.

Re:Looks Like... (5, Funny)

aardwolf204 (630780) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793255)

last time you moved your equipment from one room to another, when you booted up did you notice that a third of the wires you once had in your old setup were unused...

where do these buggers come from? its like they're breeding and no matter how hard i try to keep the female ends on the other side of the desk from the male ones it seems to happen every time.

And why is it that even though CAT5 cables are male-male they too seem to multiply!

Re:Looks Like... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793268)

Your 8 port switch is a whore

That's nothing! (3, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793057)

I mean, compared to the mess of wireless in the US of A. Several technologies in handsets, numerous carriers, multiple standards, disparate services, lack of inter-operability etc. etc.

No wonder China is developing a home-grown wireless solution tailored to it's needs.

-

Re:That's nothing! (2, Insightful)

powlow (197142) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793108)

big business is always creating problems where they don't exist...

a new mediums with no inter-operability problems...solution : put up barriers...like dvd...and happening now with wireless...

Tell the Afghans (4, Interesting)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793072)

A large proportion of their overhead wiring (power/telecoms) has been looted for its metal content. They're not all buying cellphones just because they like the mobility.

Re:Tell the Afghans (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793119)

Umm.. Fuck the Afghans? Who cares about those ragheads.

Re:Tell the Afghans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793191)

not stuck up arrogant Americans, that's for sure.

Re:Tell the Afghans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793345)

Not Americans? Why did you single them out? Anyone else helping the Afghans?

Looks like San Francisco (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793074)

With all the electric bus wires and supporting wires along with cable, telephone, electricty many San Francisco streets, especially in many outer neighborhoods, look worse than the photo in this story.

It's ok... they still dig the streets up for gas and plumbing.

Re:Looks like San Francisco (1)

fuzzybunny (112938) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793273)

I always thought this was because of earthquakes? Especially the Marina, Sunset and Richmond are built on fairly shaky ground--rather than running around digging up ruptured cable shafts every time something moves, you can just leave it above ground, where it's got some give.

Re:Looks like San Francisco (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793323)

Perhaps but if pipes that have little flex (high pressure gas, water, sewer) can run underground then so can electrical wires.

There are many 'shaky' areas that have underground utilities.

I think basically it costs more to bury them
than to hang them... at least the initial cost.

Why should we care. (-1, Flamebait)

gantrep (627089) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793075)

If wiring like this is legal, they should either stop complaining or get their evil evil government to change the law. If it's illegal, I'd just start cutting the eyesores with some snippers. At any rate, I think China has more important problems the rest of the world should be concerned with besides wire proliference.

Establish a standard, and wait (4, Interesting)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793085)

The average income in China is rather low. That means, wire is expensive.

However, if a standard, unified, cooperative standard was released for packet-based communication was released to the public domain, and a reasonably cost-effective solution was available to anybody regardless of size, you'd see the obviation of many of these wires...

Oh... wait... that's called the Internet, isn't it?

Seriously, wires are only strung 'cause it's cheaper than the alternative. If there was a standard, effective method of effecting a point to point communication, over IP or whatever, and it was reasonably priced, all those extra wires would go away.

Re:Establish a standard, and wait (1, Insightful)

gantrep (627089) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793099)

I'd like to see you distribute AC house-current by IP. The problem there isn't just communication wires....

Number 17 please? (0, Funny)

Threni (635302) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793087)

Chlicken with special flied wires?

Rodent contraceptives (5, Funny)

CityZen (464761) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793092)

From the article:

> Wires are just one urban challenge. Bedeviled by ballooning rat populations,
> Shanghai has turned not to poison but to rodent contraceptives.

Who gets the job of fitting all the little guys with condoms? :-)

Re:Rodent contraceptives (1)

dkaimal (645075) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793433)

I knew the pied piper would find a paying job someday!

Japan is just the same (4, Informative)

lingqi (577227) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793101)

For people who has not been to Japan, rent "Serial Experiment Lain" to get an idea of what overhanging wires in japan looks like. luckily people are sane enough (or at lease shy enough, anyway) to not dry their meat on the lines; but one of my commuting routes passes a road that above it is nothing but juxopositions sy shards of visible sky, cut into pieces by wires going every which way.

but when you dont have the chance to burry things, i guess it's inevitable. (side note, after earthquakes japan tends to use the rebuild phase as a chance to organize some of this stuff, which is neat)

Re:Japan is just the same (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793230)

after earthquakes japan tends to use the rebuild phase as a chance to organize some of this stuff

In Japan, the glass is half full :-)

Re:Japan is just the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793265)


In Japan, the glass is half full :-)
In Soviet Russia, YOU half full of glass!

Re:Japan is just the same (1)

jesser (77961) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793249)

I don't remember the number of wires from Lain, but I do remember the sound. Now whenever I hear an electric hum I think "Lain".

Lain (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793272)

> ... sane ...

There's nothing sane about Lain.

Awesome series, great soundtrack, but sane? No.

Oh, you weren't saying Lain was sane...OK; fair enough.

Re:Japan is just the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793438)

Heh, rent ant watch Serial Experiments Lain anyway. Is is THE best anime i've ever seen.

--Coder

just pull it out! (5, Interesting)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793105)

The reason it so bad is that they're letting practically anyone string wires. Need a line to the building across the street? Just throw it across. Nobody'll even notice one more wire! I'm sure that the vast majority of those wires are no longer in use - the article talks about attempts to identify who owns what and remove the stuff nobody can claim.

A few years ago I was doing IT work and the company had rented an office suite in a big 30yr old building. We were pulling cat5 about 40 meters between rooms, along the main hallways. There was a four inch thick layer of ancient wires held up by the cieling panels. At least a hundred times as many wires as there were people working on that floor! The telephone closet was even worse - huge masses of jumpers going back to the MPOE where there was no connection on the other end. There were 25pair cables for old multi-line systems... everything you can imagine. We just left it all there because we had no way of knowing which 0.05% of all that cable was still live.

Then last year I rented an office in a newer building. Lifted the cieling panels and found a rats nest but not too bad - I think it was about 10 years worth of junk, and it was a smaller place. There had been about five previous tenants and they'd all just installed new systems on top of the crap the previous one left. I just went up there and pulled out EVERYTHING except for one wire - for the thermostat. After that, installing the CAT5 wiring we needed was trivially easy, and since there wasn't a rats nest to dig through everwhere you went, it was easy to route everythign neatly and hang it way up high where it'd be out of the way of future installations.

Anyway regarding China: there's really no solution other than to dig in, start identifying the old wire, and pulling it out. It's not really that expensive, and it gets easier as you go!

Re:just pull it out! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793116)

Is that the advice you give your boyfriend when you worries aloud about passing his AIDS onto you?

Re:just pull it out! (1)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793118)

Forgot one thing... now that I think about it the building was probably about 40yrs old, and the reason there was so much crap up there was also because the ceilings were filled with asbestos so nobody wanted to spend too much time up there.

Re:just pull it out! (5, Interesting)

Angostura (703910) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793150)

London Telehouse is similarly amusing. This was one of the first purpose-built Internet colo facilities; the first in London. They rented out rack space, but didn't control who put wires where. Now they, like the Chinese have a situation where they don't know which wires thet can safely yank. A riser cabinet the size of a small room will be just filled with cables of all sizes and hues that no-one has a clue about. More amusingly, there is no so much cable in the underfloor spaces that when you walk along the corridors the floor plates rock from side to side as you tread on them.

BAD IDEA (2, Informative)

RMH101 (636144) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793352)

you're renting a suite on the first floor. the other five floors above you have to get their cables in through the same risers you use. rip out *a single cable* that breaks something upstairs and you're looking at a lawsuit for lost productivity and the swift application of the Cat5-of-9-tails from several BOFHs.
Even worse if you pull something like a fire alarm cable that isn't immediately noticed...

Pfft... (5, Funny)

dupper (470576) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793134)

They sould see my desk behind my computer. Just last month I lost 3 good men in an expedition to unplug my monitor.

Re:Pfft... (1)

fuzzybunny (112938) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793260)

Offtopic, but Ikea makes great velcro cable ties. They're about 1" wide and maybe 10" long--superb for keeping things orderly.

Asking the masses? Askslashdot? (5, Funny)

millwall (622730) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793143)

"So China is doing what China usually does when confronted with such dilemmas[...]: It's mounting a campaign, asking the masses for help"

So why didn't China post this in Askslashdot?

Tesla-coil terrorism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793152)

Watch the arcs collapse the grid...

Not just China! (4, Informative)

fastdecade (179638) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793153)

Huge problem in Kyoto, Japan's ancient capital. It used to be a pristine, elegant, small city. Its streets are now a tangle of cables.

This is a problem for societies such as China (now) and Japan (opst-war) which expand too quickly. In the pace of progress, it seems too difficult, too regressive, to take the time for really clever use of technologies, such as building cables underground, digging out walls and restoring the surface again, and, nowadays, wireless where possible.

If you look at well-preserved places, they still have modern conveniences like aircon, alarms, etc. But they are willing to spend more, often a lot more, to get the best of both worlds.

Re:Not just China! (4, Interesting)

fuzzybunny (112938) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793242)


With Kyoto, it's not just wires--it's general shoddy urbanization. The city has no metro, so public transportation consists of fairly shabby buses, the traffic is insane, and in between historical landmarks, the place is laid out in a grid pattern filled with boxy, unattractive 1960s office buildings (at least the downtown areas.)

It's really too bad--this is pretty typical of those parts of Japan as a whole that I managed to see (caveat: mainly built-up areas between Himeji and Tokyo.) Buildings were put up and cities planned, seemingly with purely pragmatic concerns in mind, with little regard for aesthetics. Damn shame, really.

Growing Pains (5, Informative)

gotpaint32 (728082) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793157)

These are typical of any area undergoing modernization. It is kind of elitest for anyone to say that they lacked planning. (even though they are) Just look at the United States when it was undergoing its telecommunications boom in the early 1900s; (wired one not the wireless kind) countless phone, telegraph, power and who knows what else lines were strung all over the place.

This is just what happens, planners can't always be expected to accomodate for the booms of a volatile industry, the private sector is pretty resilient, it will work to help itself in the quickest most efficient (not necessarily pretty) way possible. Once the government has had time to catch up and realize the ensuing chaos, then they can work to make everything nice and orderly again without disrupting the oh so important rapid expansionary growth shown in these industries.

http://www.albionmich.com/history/histor_noteboo k/ R0112.shtml

Big government sucks!

Re:Growing Pains (2, Interesting)

Chatmag (646500) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793182)

I remember the same thing in post war Germany. What wasn't bombed out, had wires running everywhere. That was in the mid '50's when I first went to Europe. Later, in the '60's, it wasn't as bad, so I'm assuming it took Germany about 10 years to clean up the wire tangled cities.

Re:Growing Pains (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793306)

Just look at the United States when it was undergoing its telecommunications boom in the early 1900s; (wired one not the wireless kind) countless phone, telegraph, power and who knows what else lines were strung all over the place.

Yeah, but there is one very important difference in technology since then. Back then, there were no automated phone switches at all. In the very early days, lines went from point A to point B directly and were dedicated to communication only between those two points. This tends to increase the number of wires exponentially. (That is not an exaggeration -- it really is exponential.) Then they went to manual switching, which was great, but which requires all cables to be run to a single point where the person sits in front of a giant patch bay and tries to be polite all day long. Then giant, power-hungry mechanical stepper motor switches. (Each click on a dial telephone moves the stepper to a new position. Pity all the mechanical contacts have to be cleaned regularly by hand.)

These days, we have cheap, reliable digital phone switches. AND, we have multiplexing for our digital circuit-switched traffic. AND, we have fiberoptic cables that can carry hundreds of phone calls all at once. And digital technology is so cheap that you could build tiny neighborhood switches for phone lines if you wanted (thus saving cable back to the central office), or even switches for individual homes (so that only one wire must be run even if you have 10 phone lines). And anyone building things today can spec things out so that most cables carry lots of multiplexed traffic instead of being married to a multibillion dollar investment into twisted copper pairs meant for a single analog voice line.

The point being that is possible to do the same stuff with orders of magnitude fewer cables than, say, the first quarter of the 20th century. The ability to put more switches in more places and the ability to carry more traffic over a given number of cables both make the job a whole lot easier.

Cat got your tounge? (something important seems to (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793161)

HURR HURR [somethingawful.com]

Time to get Slashdot.CN? (0, Offtopic)

taweili (111177) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793172)

If story like this even make it to /. or it's just a slow news day?

DIE DIE DIE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793179)

That is all.

Gumming up the works? (2, Interesting)

sakusha (441986) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793184)

The wires ARE "the works."

Anyway, this isn't just China's problem. Alex Kerr's quite interesting book "Lost Japan" discusses the blight of utility poles and wiring.

aut0tr0ll is teh sp0kE!? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793237)

Hello master.

sid=90275
formkey=3BNy8ImvB4

This is a joint venture that will be mutually advantageous to both parties involved.

aut0tr0ll is teh sp0kE!? (-1, Troll)

Jack Froidalbungle (730156) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793241)

Hello master.

sid=90275
formkey=ds38b0WVzQ

This is a joint venture that will be mutually advantageous to both parties involved.

Look under your desk (3, Funny)

aardwolf204 (630780) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793244)

I read the article (gasp) and then looked directly under my desk... doesnt look like I'm doing much better. So when is Power Over IP going to come out again?

Another interesting thing to ponder, last time you moved your equipment from one room to another, when you booted up did you notice that a third of the wires you once had in your old setup were unused... where do these buggers come from? its like they're breeding and no matter how hard i try to keep the female ends on the other side of the desk from the male ones it seems to happen every time.

Yet another thing to consider. I just came back from a 200 person LAN party [eastcoastlan.com] this weekend. A buddy in my clan (read: geeks that LAN together, not CS \"noobs\"); was relieved that he brought his trusty Dell QuietKey keyboard rather than his wireless logitech. The clan sitting directly behind us all were using these devices are were having trouble with interference all the time. Probably could have fixed things with using different channels but by the looks of things (19" LCD, green Antec cases, blue LED casefans) these guys didnt know a CAT5 from a Hello Kitty Personal Vibrator [jlist.com]

Re:Look under your desk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793314)

Another interesting thing to ponder, last time you moved your equipment from one room to another, when you booted up did you notice that a third of the wires you once had in your old setup were unused.

Nope, never had that happen to me. But then, I've had 3 or 4 jobs where I had to help maintain a wiring closet.

I was in Shanghai last year (3, Interesting)

HunterZero (102709) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793271)

And my father goes over there on a fairly frequent basis for 2-3 months at a time. Always sticks me with taking care of his affairs while he's away... *grumble*

Anyways, I went all over that damned town. I spent an entire day walking around (mostly because I got lost) and I don't honestly remember there being that much of a massive wire problem overhead. I'd remember it because I'm a geek at heart and got thrown out of more than one cyber cafe for playing around to how to break their censorship software. But I'm getting off track. Sure, there were plenty of lines overhead, but no more so than any large city I've been in, reguardless of country. There's nothing wrong with running wires overhead, you just have to be certain of what you're running and not run useless wire. If it's useless I completely agree with tearing it down.

Personally, I still think that we should run fiber through the sewage systems to all locations. Everyone has to have sewage, and no one really cares if we run something through it. Why it isn't a standard I don't understand. The expense in the short term is offset by the long term gain in my opinion.

Re:I was in Shanghai last year (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793294)

The problem is maintenence. Who would want to go down there to fix anything that went wrong?

Re:I was in Shanghai last year (2, Informative)

NickFitz (5849) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793340)

Everyone has to have sewage

Hence the sophisticated delivery mechanisms [bbc.co.uk] that have been put in place.

aut0tr0ll is teh sp0kE!? (-1, Troll)

Jack Froidalbungle (730156) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793276)

Hello master.

sid=90275
formkey=hYYZUlzjdc

This is a joint venture that will be mutually advantageous to both parties involved.

Enterprising indeed... (2, Insightful)

infonick (679715) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793281)

"Over on Hefei Street, one enterprising apartment dweller even used them to hang-dry selected cuts of meat."

Seriously, if the power/fiber/phone lines are that close to a building, there must be really old standards in place. You can imagine the fun someone would have if they tapped a fiber line for spamming.

Come to think of it, if someone pulled that off, he/she would never be found because all the wires are in such a mess. It would be like looking for a needle in a field of haystacks!

This is red-blooded capitalism! (0, Troll)

Serveert (102805) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793292)

Darn socialists in the US wanna regulate my wires! :tinfoilhat:

Easy solution (5, Interesting)

Blackneto (516458) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793322)

I didn't read the article but...
Just publiclly annouce that people have 30-60 days to prove whats theirs and why it's there. Anything that isn't claimed is gone.

We have this problem in our datacenters at times. Projects end or people don't need the servers anymore and don't RTS them. Time comes when theres a problem or we need to know who owns a server. When nobody fesses up we just shut it off till somebody screams.

Paradise... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793332)

I'm packing my suitcases I'm moving over there!

Finding a Broker (4, Interesting)

awol (98751) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793363)

You used to be able to find a broker in Shanghai, by following the yellow cable out of the exchange building and around the streets of the town as it stopped by their offices.

Actually that's not quite true, but there was a yellow cable that left the exchange building and went to various different installations where exchange activities (including trading) took place. It was just hanging off the poles and you could easily track amongst the spaghetti at the time. That was back in '96, the last time I was there. I dread to think what it must look like now.

why robbIE needed to have his own dating service? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793371)

maybe he has plans on being just another fauxking felonious stock markup fraud softwar gangster billyonerror? the monIE's gooed, if you can get it/out. in time.

14-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 642,190 Sale at $25.45 - $25.61 per share. $16,395,0002
14-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 1,357,810 Sale at $25.611 - $25.9 per share. $34,971,0002
14-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 2,000,000 Planned Sale $51,380,0001
13-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 1,000,000 Sale at $25.54 - $25.71 per share. $25,625,0002
13-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 1,000,000 Planned Sale $25,980,0001
12-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 624,900 Sale at $25.65 - $25.811 per share. $16,079,0002
12-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 375,100 Sale at $25.82 - $26.06 per share. $9,730,0002
11-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 1,230,650 Sale at $25.69 - $25.85 per share. $31,714,0002
11-Nov-03 GATES, WILLIAM H. III
Chairman 769,350 Sale at $25.851 - $26.021 per share. $19,954,000

all for won, they say. lookout bullow. happy gnu year/millennium.

there's monIE in pimping fake won eyed girls? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793375)

it's a wonder everybodIE isn't doing it?

Standardised prefabricated concrete roads (1)

Moderation abuser (184013) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793390)

With covered troughs built into the pavements for the amenities; power, telephone, cable, whatever. Want to build a new road, prepare the foundation and then drop a concrete road block into place.

It would reduce the amount of digging up of roads and therfore traffic chaos in cities like London as well.

Re:Standardised prefabricated concrete roads (1)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793401)

Good idea in theory, but they cause extreme tyre noise and they look nasty with all the joints. I can't see them being acceptable in London, although I understand they're more popular in the US.

Re:Standardised prefabricated concrete roads (1)

Moderation abuser (184013) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793457)

You have the option of putting a tarmac covering over the top of the road surface, it isn't going to be dug up regularly. The only bits which might would be at intersections and it's easy to design for that.

The key is to build support for the amenity cabling, piping and ducting (All stuff that seems to be an afterthought at the moment) into the pavement in a standard, easy to access manner. Want to fix or lay a cable, lift the top off of the pavement with a crane.

Damn, I should have patented this.

Yes, much of Asia is a wired mess (4, Interesting)

Conspire (102879) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793402)

As an expatriate living in Taiwan and China for 13 years now, I can confirm the fact that most of the big cities here are a big wired mess. Taiwan is perhaps even worse than China, because there are many cable companies and cable is strewn everywhere. I mean it is a mess, and not a very great site to the eye either.

Shanghai is much better than Taiwan, although still needs some improvement. I think the biggest problem is there is concrete everywhere, so unlike the US where they lay cable underground in the mass sprawling suburbs of the cities. It is hard to do that when you have no suburbs and the cities sprawl for a hundred kilometers, all concrete jungle!

Interesting enough, I was way deep in Mainland China near Mongolia a couple years ago, and there were huge tracks where they were laying fiber on the sides of the road. I mean this was in the middle of NOWHERE, only coal mines and steel factories I was trying to figure out why they were laying fiber optic cable there. "If only they did that in the cities", I thought to myself at the time. sheesh.

Booming China (2, Funny)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793408)

If a lot of people are involved in running bandit cables, and a bunch of other people get paid to remove them, I can see why their economy is doing so well.

Excellent! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793419)

I, for one, would like to welcome our long, skinny, electrfied, Chinese overlords!

Dr. Seuss's wires in China. (3, Funny)

Alsee (515537) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793423)

Telephone Fiber Electrical wires.
Crossing and shorting and starting great fires.
Sagging and snagging and causing us ires,
down to the street and around all our tires.

Intricate knots to confound a Boy Scout.
Perplexing knots that no one can get out.
So many knots that I know nothing about.
Gordian knots I say without a doubt.

On Tibet Road they dangle
each and every angle
on telephone poles
n garden-hose rolls.

Black wires Blue wires Magenta you see,
it's a rainbow put there to serve you 'n me.

On Beijing Road you can barely see the sky
Wires no one can seem to identify
growing and climbing and reaching so high
all over China's tech-happy city Shanghai.

Wires to hang-dry selected cuts of meat,
Wires as planters for growing rows of wheat.

Wires for poppy-san, wires for mommy-san.
Wires for you-san, wires for me-san.
Please do not forget some wires for Nissan!

Wires in rows for power that glows,
under my toes and under my nose.
The question I pose is where it all goes?
Where it all goes? But nobody knows!

We are betwix it how do we fix it?
How do we nix it? Let us sub-six it!

Oh what a feat I jump from my seat!
Under the street down under our feet!
That is no cheat! That would be a treat!
That would be neat that answer I greet!
Could that be beat down under concrete?

-

creators' disempowerment of unprecedented evile (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793439)

is going well, thanks to y'all. it's no contest really. the evile execrable has been having it's way with US for far too long already. prepare to brighten/lighten up.

In Soviet Russia (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7793450)

Wires wage war against YOU!

Funny, (4, Interesting)

Kludge (13653) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793460)

When I was in Shanghai last year I took this pic [merrill-samuelson.com] out of amusement.

India's War For Wires (1)

wombatmobile (623057) | more than 10 years ago | (#7793469)

In India they can't get enough wires. [tribuneindia.com]
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