Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Human Trials Of Anti-Smoking Vaccine Begin

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the pleasure-reduction dept.

Biotech 119

Makarand writes "A Nicotine vaccine that may help smokers to quit has made it to human trials. The vaccine is administered as a series of eight shots -- patients receive two shots per visit during four different visits. The vaccine works by stimulating the human immune system to produce antibodies that bind with the nicotine molecules to form a larger complex molecule which cannot pass through the blood/brain barrier to get into the brain. As a result smokers will not feel the 'high' from the cigarettes they light up and lose interest in smoking. Preliminary studies have shown that this vaccine is safe in humans." (Each link goes to a slightly different version of the same wire story.)

cancel ×

119 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Feline Poop! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7823444)

Fuck you, all of you motherfucking LamdaMOOer motherfuckers!

There's more than one type of addiction (5, Informative)

Dr Tall (685787) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823466)

Maybe this could be used to treat physical addiction, but I don't see how it would help psychological addiction. You can become clinically addicted to something without your body being dependent on the substance; you just feel an uncontrolable urge to smoke, not for the high feeling, but just because you always smoke on the way to work, always smoke at parties, etc.

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (2, Interesting)

sigxcpu (456479) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823521)

If you were right, the tobacco companies would not need to waste time and mony (and risk legal action) by adding amonia to the cogaretts just to make them more addictive.
Take suger for instance. People get used to eat somthing sweet to cheer up. But there is a measurable biological effect caused by blood glucose level.
Would that be a psycological addiction or a physical one? No matter what you call it, if you will not enjoy smoking you will find somthing better to feed your psycological needs.

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823584)

by adding amonia to the cogaretts

I want some of what you're smoking!

BTW- What the hell are you talking about?

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

sigxcpu (456479) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826346)

LOL

try google for ammonia cigarettes
(the short version is that its being done...)

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (2, Informative)

Naerbnic (123002) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823526)

The thing is that psychological addiction is also due to a chemical effect of the drug on your body. Physical addiction is strictly because of a pleasurable sensation of a drug on your brain. IIRC, This is drugs like Cocaine, which give you a definite "high". Nicotine, while not giving a noticable high, is still extremely habit forming, since it changes the chemistry of the body. When you stop smoking, the amount of dopamine (a chemical used to transmit nerve impulses) in your body drops, often lower than what it was before you started smoking. After you smoke, dopamine levels increase in your body (either that, or nicotine fools your body into thinking there's more dopamine). In any case, your body craves some sort of normal levels of dopamine. Since cigarettes give you that, you have a huge urge to smoke. If the dopamine increase effect of nicotine is cancelled (apparently what this drug is attempting to do), your body loses the connecting between smoking and high dopamine levels. Thus over time, your body begins producing more dopamine naturally, until you no longer crave cigarettes.

And just as a precaution, IANA Medical Professional.

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823648)

This vaccine would probably work much better in combination with something to refocus one's cigarette obsession. There's a nicotine inhaler that looks vaguely like a cigarette (it's cylindrical, roughly), and the reason it is shaped that way is to permit you to "smoke" it like you would a normal cigarette.

If you can refocus your attention onto something else - say, a lollipop, or a toothpick - then you accomplish the bulk of what this is trying to do, namely, get people off of cigarettes.

I'd love to see this concept applied to harder drugs than nicotine, though. Imagine actually being able to cure a cocaine addict. What a way to win the war on drugs :)

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (2, Insightful)

Dr Tall (685787) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823668)

This vaccine would probably work much better in combination with something to refocus one's cigarette obsession.

Totally. The way it is now strikes me as a forced cold-turkey situation. Certainly these people go through withdrawl symptoms just like any other person trying to quit.

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826303)

In my personal experience, the only time I managed to quit for good (8 months) was a cold-turkey one. I also adopted the AA strategy of counting the days I've abstained from tobacco to get the self esteem punch whenever I wished to light one (what a shame it would have been to reset the count... a failed exam blew it though).

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 10 years ago | (#7827725)

the only time I managed to quit for good (8 months)
I feel compelled to point out that abstaining for 8 months is not "quitting for good".

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

PacoTaco (577292) | more than 10 years ago | (#7829700)

It was good while it lasted. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

dnahelix (598670) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823846)

What is your point? Are you saying they shouldn't try this because it might not help all smokers?

"but I don't see how it would help psychological addiction."

If this proves to be safe, then you can just sit back and watch what effect is.

I myself used to smoke, and think it probably was more of a psychological addiction because I didn't think it was that hard to quit! So put that in you pipe and smoke it!

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

Dr Tall (685787) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825402)

What is your point? Are you saying they shouldn't try this because it might not help all smokers?

My point is not only that it might not help all smokers, but that it might hurt the smokers who are both physically and psychologically addicted by sending them through physical withdrawls yet not helping the other part of their addiction.

I agree with you, though, that if it has the potential to help certain smokers, it ought to be given a shot.

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (1)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826392)

Many smokers just don't have enough strenght to endure the withdrawal. During that period temptation gets so high that many simply fall to it and fail. After all it's just a matter of a fortnight and it dies away so if this stuff helps me to force through this period I might try it. Also, once a smoker, always a smoker so if after an arbitrary amount of time you concede to one you've had it, it's back to square one (and this treatment seems to remove this pretty obnoxious aspect). I'm eagerly waiting for the results... BTW, tobacco companies should be forced to invest part of their profit on these anti-addiction researches (through a blind scheme of course... ;-)

Re:There's more than one type of addiction (3, Insightful)

CmdrWiggle (697247) | more than 10 years ago | (#7829516)

I used to smoke two packs a day - and have "quit" smoking several times. The first time, I quit cold turkey. It was hard, but do-able. The largest contributing factor to my cravings was that my last memory of smoking was good. I loved smoking. After I quit, I constantly craved the feeling that I had when I smoked.

After several years, I started again. In the meantime, I started taking Wellbutrin (Zyban). Even though I didn't take it to quit smoking (I took it for ADD/depression), the Wellbutrin made the cigarettes taste awful. Without trying, I couln't smoke more than three or four a day - and I usually put them out half way through because they were nasty. Then I just stopped. I literally have not had a single craving since. I attribute this to the fact that my last memory of smoking was awful, and I don't want to do it again. And I was a hardcore smoker. At one point, I even considered quitting Wellbutrin just so I could keep smoking (even though it worked wonders for my real problems).

My point is that, if the vaccine makes the cigarettes taste awful, it will break the psychological addiction first, because you simply don't want to smoke. As a result, you smoke less, thus breaking the physical addiction as well.

They need to get this down to one shot (4, Insightful)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823496)

Seriously, people are going to get cold feet after a visit or two to the doctor when they're starting to really feel the pull of addiction, and realize that they are permanently destroying their ability to get a fix.

They need to get this vaccine down to something that can be administered in one visit, so people don't have a chance to get cold feet after the begining.

If they can make this something joe six-pack-a-day can just do one afternoon on an impulse, then I'll be really impressed.

Of course, then how long will it be until cigarette companies come out with anti-vacine cigs?

Re:They need to get this down to one shot (-1)

astrashe (7452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823548)

You're exactly right -- I hadn't thought of that.

Re:They need to get this down to one shot (2, Insightful)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823837)

Off an Impulse? Hell, I've considered qitting for the past 4 years! If this stuff doesn't develop allergies to tobacco (which would be dramatic given the fact that people smoke anywhere) I for shure would joyously get the shots... all of 'em! You know, if anything I will finally be able to just smoke for the sake of acting cool a Saturday night without getting myself screwed into addiction. From the first day I lit a cigarette I liked it too much... I was hooked since the very start, all I did was increase the dose as the years passed.

Re:They need to get this down to one shot (2, Interesting)

bartok (111886) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824164)

What's nice about this is that you could give the shots to all children of a certain age and then the tobaco industry would go bankrupt in no time.

Re:They need to get this down to one shot (1)

geoswan (316494) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824543)

(From the original article)

Although the vaccine does not reduce the cravings or withdrawal symptoms of quitting, it will reduce the rewarding effects of smoking.

So, if it was possible to administer the vaccine in a single dose, the subject goes through all the withdrawal essentially at once, with no possibility of sneaking a couple of smokes to take the edge off. That could be cruel. Is it possible that the multiple dose aspect is considered a feature, not a bug?

Re:They need to get this down to one shot (1)

s0l0m0n (224000) | more than 10 years ago | (#7827328)

Of course, then how long will it be until cigarette companies come out with anti-vaccine cigs?

Oh... That's dastardly!

I'm worried that someone will decide that it's necessary for people to be vaccinated against smoking. I can easily see parents vaccinating their children at a young age, corporations requiring that as part of a 'Smoke free workplace' policy employee's be vaccinated, insurance providers not providing to those who are not vaccinated, or the government forcing people to be vaccinated either in the military or as part of an addiction treatment program for other substances.

I'm also curious as to whether or not a similar vaccine could be used against other drug users. I can very clearly see an Ashcroftian future where you just CAN'T get high.

That would really, really piss me off. Freaking mind control via chemical inducement, I tell you!

Fucking Smokers (3, Troll)

Black Rabbit (236299) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823528)

I can deal with the problem of smokers not being able to quit their filthy disgusting habit, but how about the more sociopathic problem that seems to plague the better part of them, therefore society as a whole?

Ever notice what happens when a smoker opens up a fresh pack? The plastic wrap goes onto the ground. Then, once the smoke is finished, it goes onto the ground too. When the pack is finished, it tends to end up on the ground too. In other words, smokers are some of the most sociopathic polluting assholes on the planet! Ever have a look around a typical smoking area around, say, a public building? Butts everywhere, despite the usual presence of buttcans and ashtrays. They don't use them or need them, because they consider the world as their ashtray!

Fucking assholes! These people don't need a vaccine to deal with their smoking problem. They need a simple boot in the ass, or several hundred as the case may be, to teach them a much needed lesson about simple politeness and courtesy! All before even getting into the usual controversies about polluting the air that I have to breathe without my consent.

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

Black Rabbit (236299) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823682)

Never mind that the point I make is valid. The evidence is clear, as I point out. I guess I just got modded down by militant smoker!

Re:Fucking Smokers (0)

Black Rabbit (236299) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823712)

...and back up again!

Thanks!

Re:Fucking Smokers (0)

Liquidrage (640463) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823726)

You post wasn't true. It was a stereotyping rant. You didn't post evidence. You posted your opinion. And it was an opinion I would call ignorant at best.
Where I work there are no wrappers all over the ground. There are no cigarette butts all over the smoking area. And the smoking area is far away from the building so as to not disturn non-smokers.

And I quit sometime ago so I don't think I qualify for militant smoker (not that I modded you down though I would have had I had any mod points today).

Re:Fucking Smokers (4, Funny)

Black Rabbit (236299) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823773)

...and the evidence I see is abundantly clear! I see the byproducts of their pleasure all over the place, from the packages to the butts. I see little piles of butts at traffic intersections and in parking lots where these people choose to empty their ashtrays. I see people tossing their still-lit butts out of car windows. (A good friend of mine lost his truck to fire when one of these hit his hay-bale laden truck at highway speed, burning it to the ground in minutes.)

If you don't have to put up with this trash all over the place, then consider yourself lucky. It's a part of daily existence where I am. despite fairly and increasingly stringent anti-smoking regulations.

Re:Fucking Smokers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7824171)

I see the byproducts of their pleasure all over the place, from the packages to the butts.

And when I'm done with you I'll leave your pummeled bloody body in the gutter along with my cigarrette butt you sniveling cunt. Crawl back in your hole and assrape your mom like usual.

A good friend of mine lost his truck to fire when one of these hit his hay-bale laden truck at highway speed, burning it to the ground in minutes.

Fuck you, your redneck freinds, and their hillbilly sports cars. Clean the fucking thing out once in a while and it won't catch fire, if this story is even true which I highly doubt. It reads like the tired old "I hate Nazis because my $RELATIVE was killed in a concentration camp" bullshit sob story.

BTW, my grandfather died in a concentration camp.




He fell off a guard tower.

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

GreyWolf3000 (468618) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824471)

Look up the definition of sociopath. Nothing about the careless behavior of some smokers is sociopathic.

Not even close (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7823739)

If you count air pollution, old tires, rusting steel, oil and gas, and amount of the world covered in interstate, the most sociopathic polluting assholes are the people who drive cars. You probably drive to work with real smug look, you puckered-rectum health nazi.

Re:Not even close (1)

Black Rabbit (236299) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823789)

I don't own a car. I use public transit.

Re:Not even close (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7825801)

You're a self-righteous bastard. I'm glad that it's physically impossible for you to get to the place where I live.

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

Stigmata669 (517894) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823740)

hehe, quite literally flamebait.

Fucking Whiners (4, Funny)

abulafia (7826) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823778)

I can deal with the problem of assholes not being able to help themselves quit their filthy discusting behaviour, but how about the more sociopathic problem that seems to plague the better part of them, therefore society as a while?

Ever notice what happens when a whiner opens their mouth? The first thing out of it is a bitch session about how someone else is screwing up their life. Once the stop frothing at the mouth about that, they have to start rebutting others. Then, they whine about getting modded down on Slashdot. In other words, whiners are some of the most sociopathic assholes on the planet! Ever have a look at the social habits of whiners? They empty a bar in no time. They don't need to go out because everyone hates them already, but they do anyway, just to make others unhappy.

Fucking assholes! These people don't need a vaccine to deal with their whining problem. They need a simple boot in the ass, or several hundred as the case may be, to teach them a much needed lesson about simple politeness and courtesy! All before getting into the usual controversies about what impact whining has on the economy, or how it kills kittens.

Re:Fucking Whiners (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7823802)

That was imaginative. Do you cut, paste and edit all your replies?

Only when there is a point to be made. [n/t] (1)

abulafia (7826) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823974)

Mockery serves a purpose, as does the lameness filter. Wait, at least one of those does, at least...

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823790)

Hey flamebait, while I do agree with you about the unpoliteness of throwing butts on the floor I assure you that whenever I find an ashtray I _alwais_ use it. Never, ever have I thrown an empty pack on the floor let alone the plastic wrap. If I were to swallow the bait I could complain about the foreigners' habit of littering Campo de Fiori with empty bottles and assorted bodily fluids... after a night of pub crawls Rome becomes a drunkard's bin...
Will you be so kind to keep those fundamentalist overtones for yourself? You know, every country has it's joke about it's people's nature and the USA target is: prohibitionist hysteria .
Back on topic I'll wait and see if this vaccine develops anaphylactic reactions to nicotine; if it doesn't I'll be one of those using this cure. I've come to the conclusion cigarettes are digging a grave for me but I can't give up (people smoking everywhere around me, frustrations and stress buildup, whatever...ah, shure, addiction...)

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

Black Rabbit (236299) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823818)

Then do your part and get your fellow smokers to do the same!

As for the USA comment, I'm Canadian, you insensitive clod! At least we have a 98% success rate at beer bottle returns!

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

abulafia (7826) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824057)

It is not my part to do anything.

See, there's this notion you seem to have that I, as a smoker, am somehow a member of the Secret Brotherhood of International Smoking Initiates, or something, and therefore am both responsible for the behaviour of other smokers as well as capable of influencing their behaviour.

Both assumptions are of course completely and utterly silly.

If you disagree that these assumptions are silly, then get back to me with your success rate at convincing all your fellow Canadians to speak English.

Filthy, frightful behaviour, those Quebecians...

Re:Fucking Smokers (2, Interesting)

geoswan (316494) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825031)

Excuse me? It sounds like you are claiming to be a good citizen because, "I assure you that whenever I find an ashtray I alwais use it."

So, what do you do when you need a smoke, and you can't find an ashtray? You realize that, the way you phrased it, it sounds like you think it is okay, if you can't find an ashtray, to light up anyway, and throw your butts on the floor? Is this what you meant?

When I was young, and full of beans, I used to get into confrontations with people smoking in places where smoking was officially prohibited.

Smokers are addicts, and are capable of wild rationalizations. Anyhow, I would get my dander up, and engage in a tense confrontation -- mano a mano. By the time I was 20 or so I decided that I was putting my health at greater risk by confronting the asshole smoker -- maybe get a broken nose from getting in a fight.

About ten or fifteen years later I started speaking up again. But I did so in a totally different way. I'd ask them, in the nicest possible way, if they knew it was a non-smoking area. Sometimes smokers didn't know, they managed to remain unaware, and they stop. But, if they don't stop, I don't appeal to authority. Instead I ask, as a courtesy, if they will stop out of consideration for those of us who are sensitive. While this is less effective than the tense confrontation approach I figure it is safer for me, because it won't provoke a fight.

I resent this. I shouldn't have to do this.

I am with blackrabbit on this issue. Even smokers who are capable of being decent people, good citizen, can be assholes when presented with temptation. They are in a non-smoking area, but there is no one else around, so they feel free to light up. Bzzzt. Back when we accomodated this destructive habit public places were designed to be well enough ventilated to clear away smoke. Well, they aren't anymore. And, if they once were, the ventilation has been turned down. If it is not a smoking area you are going to piss off non-smokers for for a considerable time after you have got your fix. If the ventilation is really bad, maybe for hours.

Let me close with an anecdote.

About fifteen years ago I was waiting to pick up my cousin at the airport. That part of the airport is under construction. The lounge is clearly a non-smoking area. Clearly marked with signs, no ashtrays present. And, because of the construction, it is very poorly ventilated. Well this older guy is standing next to a waste receptacle, having a smoke. So, I go over to him, and politely ask him if he is aware that this is a non-smoking area, and ask him, as a courtesy to refrain from smoking.

He denies it is a non-smoking area. He asks "if this is a non-smoking area, why are there ashtrays," as he points at his trash can. Maybe, from a distance, this trash can could be mistaken for an ashtray. But, when I said, "Sir, that is a trash can," its garbage bag lining was a sure clue that it was a trash can.

Then he says, "If this is a non-smoking section, why aren't there any signs?" So I silently point to a couple of the nearby signs.

When this has sunk in, he stubs out his cigarette, and says to me something like, "Okay, I am putting it out. But I am not doing so because of you. I am doing so because I am good citizen who obeys the law."

Although I did my best to talk to this guy in a way intended to not humiliate him, I am sure if you asked this guy what I had said he would have described me as being a complete asshole.

This guy's addiction blinded him to how ugly his behaviour was.

This guy's addiction blinded him so he could mistake a trash can for an ashtray. This guy's addiction blinded him so he could be oblivious to the many non-smoking signs in this lounge. This guy's addiction blinded him to not noticing that the room was crowded, poorly ventilated, and he was the only one smoking.

He probably was a good citizen -- except for his blindness over his addiction.

You want to be a good citizen? No rationalizations! Be considerate.

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

Jon Howard (247978) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825685)

Let's try these on for size:

  1. We already have laws against littering. How is it any different for a smoker to drop their butt than for a fat guy or child to drop their chocolate bar wrapper? Here's an idea, for starters, a butt is made of organics which biodegrade easily and rapidly, while a candy wrapper is often plastic. Plastic lasts damn near forever, where a butt's paper and cotton lasts a week. Both are littering and reprehensible, no doubt, but they're both already illegal - thus no cause for new anti-smoking ordinances.
  2. Most locales have fire codes which prohibit combustion indoors, unless in a kitchen, or otherwise properly designed and ventilated area. It's already illegal to burn things indoors unless in a proper location - again, no reason to make anti-smoking laws here if current laws are enforced.
  3. Tobacco smoke suffers a stigma which several other harmful smokes do not. When's the last time you smelled Hickory or Maple burning and thought about passing a law to specifically cover the combustion of those woods? Most people find their scent appealing, though their smoke would just as surely kill you as that of Tobacco. The difference is simply that they are not a known addicitve substance which somehow elicits the inner-coward of many people to pass laws against them, for fear of their own susceptibility to another's vice.

If someone wants to smoke, it's not your job to stop them. If someone's smoking in an improperly ventilated area, then they are potentially suffocating you and should stop. If someone is littering cigarette butts (or plastic, or toy cars, or hand-grenade pins, etc), they're littering. It's not the cigarette that makes them do it, it's the fact that they're an asshole.

Addictions can make people into assholes, but they don't always. The fear of losing control of oneself, and therefore losing one's identity, to an addiction has created far more.

Take a look at Black Rabbit's posts again, but replace "smokers" with "blacks" or "gays" and consider how creating a stereotype can benefit one's narrow ideology, should that ideology be based on fear.

Re:Fucking Smokers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7825994)

The difference is that smoking is a choice, race or sexual orientation is not. Well, race isn't anyway!

Re:Fucking Smokers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7826160)

Heh, I can't count the number of times I've stubbed out still smouldering butts left by smokers who just flick them onto the pavement... or onto dry grass. If any smokers take offense at the depiction of smokers as inconsiderate litterbugs, take it up with the smokers who ARE inconsiderate litterbugs, not with the people who notice them as being the representative sample of smokers that they come into contact with.

Smoke all you want, it's your life, it's your money. Just don't burn down any buildings while you're at it - that kind of second-hand smoke we can all do without...

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 10 years ago | (#7828412)

Here's an idea, for starters, a butt is made of organics which biodegrade easily and rapidly, while a candy wrapper is often plastic.

Filters are made with cellulose acetate, a plastic which is slow to degrade.And they're packed full enough of toxic chemicals from the smoke to be an ecological hazard. [longwood.edu]

When's the last time you smelled Hickory or Maple burning and thought about passing a law to specifically cover the combustion of those woods?
Woods fires are generally ventilated so that the vast majority of combustion products are directed away.
If someone wants to smoke, it's not your job to stop them.

So long as they're not causing me, or any unwilling person (including their own children) to do so, yes. (Just as my right to enjoy a good beer doesn't include the right to piss on other people.)

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826281)

I am an addict (btw, I just put one of these damn ones out) and yes I do throw butts on the floor as I phrased it. Unfortunately I was already thinking about the next part of my post where I describe Rome's city center streets so I implicitly referred to that scenario. So yes, I do throw butts on the floor but actually when I'm out on the street (and no, I don't empty car ashtrays at semaphore stops) and there's no dang ashtray in sight. I think in Hong Kong it's a finable offense but over here it's rather normal (there are pathetically small ashtrays embedded in some stylish street trashcans but they tend to be full of anything but cig butts). I hope this vaccine strategy works, I've tried the patch, the gums, even managed to quit without any nicotinic surrogate (which being the only period totally off nicotine I consider my only true success) for as much as 8 months but I've always relapsed. I just wished I was part of that population that smokes just for play and doesn't really get hooked

Help (1)

Red Rocket (473003) | more than 10 years ago | (#7829667)


I've tried the patch, the gums, even managed to quit without any nicotinic surrogate (which being the only period totally off nicotine I consider my only true success) for as much as 8 months but I've always relapsed.

Ask your doctor for some Wellbutrin. (sorry...tried to look up a link for you but all I get from Google is online pharmacy ads) It's a mood elevator but it appears to be very good at relieving nicotine cravings. I know people who have used it to quit smoking and said that it was totally effective.

...and no, I'm not shilling for a pharmaceutical company. I think they're evil, democracy-destroying bastards, actually. Not as evil as tobacco corporations, though. The 9/11 hijackers killed about 3000 people a couple of years ago. Tobacco corporations kill that many people every two-and-a-half days . Who are the real terrorists?

Non-smokers Uber Allies (1)

sideshow (99249) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823791)

Did you quit heroin today or something?

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

Leroy_Brown242 (683141) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824216)

The same basic problem here, causes all sorts of things. A false normality.

A smokers world is different than non-smokers in one big way, smoking. (duh!)
Non-smokers see polution, litter, poor smell, bad health decisions, and a ton of other things. smokers see this as thier normal way of life. The smoke, the stench, the yellowing teeth, all normal. Just like how popping joints can become second nature.

One thing that really pisses me off are people who smoke around thier kids. A parent holding thier baby with a lit cigarette in thier mouth makes me want to call child services. )Not that it would do any good, since there are smokers there too whpo find it normal.)

You could really take this a step farther. People who beat thier kids, shoot heroin, sleep around, steal, driving fast, and a ton of other things though.

Re:Fucking Smokers (1)

Jon Howard (247978) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825705)

Let's try these on for size:

  1. We already have laws against littering. How is it any different for a smoker to drop their butt than for a fat guy or child to drop their chocolate bar wrapper? Here's an idea, for starters, a butt is made of organics which biodegrade easily and rapidly, while a candy wrapper is often plastic. Plastic lasts damn near forever, where a butt's paper and cotton lasts a week. Both are littering and reprehensible, no doubt, but they're both already illegal - thus no cause for new anti-smoking ordinances.
  2. Most locales have fire codes which prohibit combustion indoors, unless in a kitchen, or otherwise properly designed and ventilated area. It's already illegal to burn things indoors unless in a proper location - again, no reason to make anti-smoking laws here if current laws are enforced.
  3. Tobacco smoke suffers a stigma which several other harmful smokes do not. When's the last time you smelled Hickory or Maple burning and thought about passing a law to specifically cover the combustion of those woods? Most people find their scent appealing, though their smoke would just as surely kill you as that of Tobacco. The difference is simply that they are not a known addicitve substance which somehow elicits the inner-coward of many people to pass laws against them, for fear of their own susceptibility to another's vice.

If someone wants to smoke, it's not your job to stop them. If someone's smoking in an improperly ventilated area, then they are potentially suffocating you and should stop. If someone is littering cigarette butts (or plastic, or toy cars, or hand-grenade pins, etc), they're littering. It's not the cigarette that makes them do it, it's the fact that they're an asshole.

Addictions can make people into assholes, but they don't always. The fear of losing control of oneself, and therefore losing one's identity, to an addiction has created far more.

Take a look at Black Rabbit's post again, but replace "smokers" with "blacks" or "gays" and consider how creating a stereotype can benefit one's narrow ideology, should that ideology be based on fear.

Never Smoke - Yummy Ashtrays Full Of Crud! (3, Insightful)

BigBlockMopar (191202) | more than 10 years ago | (#7828530)


I can deal with the problem of smokers not being able to quit their filthy disgusting habit,

I think you fail to understand the nature of addiction. It must be a nice perspective that you have.

The craving for a cigarette feels every bit as instinctive, internal and hard-wired as the cravings for food, sex, and a trip to the bathroom when the bladder is full.

If you, presumably as someone who has never smoked, wishes to understand the agony of quitting smoking, I suggest that you simply deny yourself peeing for a week. Tell me how it feels. That's exactly what quitting smoking is like.

Most attempts to quit smoking never make it past the first day. The worst for me was always day three.

After a week or so, the brain starts to get over the cravings, but they never really completely go away.

Ever notice what happens when a smoker opens up a fresh pack? The plastic wrap goes onto the ground.

Not mine; even when I accidentally drop it, I pick it up and take it to the trash.

Then, once the smoke is finished, it goes onto the ground too.

That happens because all the anti-smokers ran around, from the depths of their ignorance about the nature of the nicotine addiction, screaming that "If we take the ashtrays out of public places people won't smoke!".

Bullshit. I have been in a situation where I could have sex or I could smoke - this was an ex who told me that we'd have sex if I didn't smoke that evening. Guess which one won out?

So, if flicking a butt on the ground - which is abhorrent to me - is the cost of having a cigarette, then it's a cost I will bear. Again, I've foregone sex for it.

I would use ashtrays if they were around. I'm not putting the butts in the garbage can; I'm sure you can appreciate the risk of fire.

When the pack is finished, it tends to end up on the ground too. In other words, smokers are some of the most sociopathic polluting assholes on the planet! Ever have a look around a typical smoking area around, say, a public building? Butts everywhere, despite the usual presence of buttcans and ashtrays. They don't use them or need them, because they consider the world as their ashtray!

When you smoke outside, you're so accustomed to the lack of an outdoor ashtray that you reflexively toss the butt on the ground. It's unfortunate.

Fucking assholes! These people don't need a vaccine to deal with their smoking problem. They need a simple boot in the ass, or several hundred as the case may be, to teach them a much needed lesson about simple politeness and courtesy!

I agree with the littering, but I wouldn't agree that smokers throw their empty packs or wrappers on the ground any more than the various sasquatches who throw gum wrappers and losing lottery tickets on the ground.

The only way to address the butt litter will be to have more ashtrays in more public places, but that's not going to happen because of all the idiots who will say it encourages smoking. (Heh... looking at an ashtray always grosses me out; if anything, it's a deterrent.)

All before even getting into the usual controversies about polluting the air that I have to breathe without my consent.

Well, for the most part, it will only affect you in a bar or restaurant. Smoking in the workplace is essentially verboten now.

Coping with it is very simple. If you don't like smoke, sit in the non-smoking section of that bar or restaurant. If they don't have a non-smoking section, go to a bar or restaurant which does.

"Quitting smoking is easy; I have done it a thousand times." - Mark Twain.

Smoking is:

  • extremely painful and difficult to quit
  • simultaneously a stimulant and a depressant
  • symptomatic of attention deficit disorder and almost as effective in the treatment of ADD/ADHD as Ritalin or dexedrine (talk to your doctor, don't start smoking for any reason)
  • beneficial in the prevention and control of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases (talk to your doctor and use a nicotine patch instead)
  • extremely addictive: often, smoking one cigarette in the school yard is enough to hook you
  • extremely pleasurable on the first cigarette After that, you simply consume the nicotine to keep yourself feeling "normal", the way you did before you ever lit up the first one
  • extremely gross! You should see the shit you cough up, and the flavor is never pleasant

There are two messages in this posting.

Message one: Never smoke. Do not ever put a cigarette, cigar or pipe to your lips for any reason. Do not ever smoke a doob which was cut with tobacco.

Message two: If you've never smoked, you can't understand it. That's a good perspective, but don't let ignorance, assumptions and propaganda color it. Smoking is evil, yes. But jacking up the price of a pack and all the cute little Department of Health public service announcements on late night TV won't do a thing to stop it.

(Ironically, the PSAs usually make me crave a cigarette, while seeing a full ashtray sitting on the table beside my recliner makes me not want one.)

The nicotine vaccine appears to prevent the absorbtion of nicotine during relapses - that's an excellent way to permanently prevent the brain getting the fix. The agony of quitting smoking would still happen, and sneaking all the cigarettes in the world wouldn't stave it off. The cravings would eventually drop to controllable levels.

Lont time smoker's point of view (4, Insightful)

c.r.o.c.o (123083) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823605)

I have to admit that I have been smoking for the past 9 years. Considering that I'm only 24 years old, that's a very long time. I've tried quitting cold turkey, I've tried the patch, the gum, and they all worked up to a point. Every time I tried quitting smoking, I stopped for a few days, but afterwards, I just had to start again. It wasn't the addiction that much, but simply the fact that I enjoy smoking too much.

Before I get all the replies describing all the side effects of smoking, you should know that I can do 150 push-ups every day, I can ride a bicycle for 30kms in about an hour through Toronto (which has its share of hills). So I'm still pretty healthy. When I'll get older this won't be the case anymore, but that's still a way off, so it doesn't feel like such a threat.

I guess this vaccine might work for me. If I can't derive pleasure from smoking, then I might have a chance of quitting. Because my willpower in this respect sure isn't helping.

Re:Lont time smoker's point of view (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7824098)

If you enjoy smoking then you obviously don't want to quit. Stop kidding yourself.

If you wanted to quit then you should be wracked with guilt every time you put that little white stick in your mouth.

Consider this: You've been smoking since you were 13. According to research this is going to knock years, maybe even tens of years off your lifespan. Think about dying before your parents. Think about dying and leaving your future wife alone to provide for herself. Think about leaving your children fatherless. Think about not living to see your grandchildren grow up.

Re:Lont time smoker's point of view (2, Interesting)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824427)

Man, that doesn't help one little bit beleive me: my dad used to smoke and guess what, he's dead. Did I quit? Oh no, I'm still struggling with the damn things, and I swear I hate the smell, the chest pain and the throat ache in the morning. All this "hate" really works when my nicotine blood concentration is good and the idea of smoking another cig is quite disgusting; once it goes down there's no question... the stink becomes a craven perfume, the small choke when inhaling a sweet caress and the taste a palatable wine. No way the stuff you're suggesting will ever work... has it stopped idiots driving against trees, explorers traveling into the unknown, soldiers putting their life at stake for whatever? No. So please get us a damn pill to swallow and rid of this damn thing...

Re:Lont time smoker's point of view (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7825484)

here,here. Good post.

Re:Lont time smoker's point of view (1)

JiffyJeff (693994) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826446)

Mod this post up! I am a former smoker, who has dealt with nicotene gum ever since I quit (2 years now). Nicotene addiction is something completely ridiculous and unthinkable until you are personally trying to kick it. Since nicotene affects your brain, and will-power is also maintained by your brain, it's hard to fight off cravings. To me it seems about as easy to not blink when someone throws something at your face or to skim over the letters in a book without reading the words. Especially given the later, once it's learned, it's hard to unlearn.

Re:Lont time smoker's point of view (1)

rubinson (207525) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824406)

Every time I tried quitting smoking, I stopped for a few days, but afterwards, I just had to start again. It wasn't the addiction that much, but simply the fact that I enjoy smoking too much.

This is pretty consistent with what most of my friends who smoke tell me. A number of years ago I heard a story on NPR about addiction. They interviewed a representative from a national drug agency (perhaps NIH, I don't recall). What he emphasized was that it's not the physical addiction that's the problem, we can control that (the patches and gums are examples). But the psychological addiction is what's difficult to kick. (He was actually talking about all drug addictions, but he made special mention of smoking.)

But in reading your post, I realized that I'm not sure what constitutes a psychological addiction. Is it simply the pleasure, as you suggest? Because most of my friends emphasize the role of stimuli. It's easy to quit smoking -- until you go out to a bar or coffee house, or you've been driving for 30 minutes, or you're at a party, etc.

Re:Lont time smoker's point of view (1)

VultureMN (116540) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826032)

But in reading your post, I realized that I'm not sure what constitutes a psychological addiction. Is it simply the pleasure, as you suggest? Because most of my friends emphasize the role of stimuli. It's easy to quit smoking -- until you go out to a bar or coffee house, or you've been driving for 30 minutes, or you're at a party, etc.



Damn right it's the stimuli. I've tried to quit several times before, and at one point even got to the 3 month mark. No physical cravings at all were left after that much time. But I went and visited some friends and we went out to our usual haunts (bar, coffeehouse, restaurant), and I had an irresistable urge to light up. I didn't even get any pleasure from starting again; just overwhelming force of habit. Now I'm back to where I started and I have to start the whole freakin' process over again. Bleah.

Zyban (1)

Fished (574624) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825448)

Go to your doctor and ask him to prescribe Zyban/Wellbutrin. It works by mimicing the "high" you get from smoking (i.e. raising dopamine levels), and was pretty effective for me.

Re:Zyban (1)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826342)

Which is what makes nicotine surrogates a pathetic setup for failure (for me at least). Let me elaborate: tobacco smoke sends a dose peak within 9 s from inspiration; all the rest simply stabilize high blood levels of the substance. Now, sometimes I think that transition low-high makes the brain bloody happy. So here I am, smoking my lungs into a dumpster...

Re:Lont time smoker's point of view (1)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826441)

Well, it means you've never really quit... it takes more time to metabolize all of the nicotine in your body. Believe me, if you light one within the first couple of weeks you're just giving in to nicotine starvation. Only if you light one after months (ah the fool!) you're doing it for the simple "pleasure" of smoking (and also falling back into addiction... remember, after so many years your brain is pretty much set up for nicotine dependancy. .02 from an ex-ex-smoker.

Quitting Smoking With Smokin' Pencils ... (0)

leoaugust (665240) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823642)

From the Article

  1. Although the vaccine does not reduce the cravings or withdrawal symptoms of quitting, it will reduce the rewarding effects of smoking.
  2. ...
  3. It is designed to curb the "high" smokers feel when they light up.
  4. The theory is that if nicotine cannot enter the brain, smokers don't experience a cigarette's pleasurable effects and slowly, they'll lose interest in smoking.
  5. "So it just becomes like smoking a cigarette that has no nicotine in it," Hatsukami said.

I guess another way to look at this upside-down, which a few people like me may visualize would be:

  • I want to smoke something that has no noctine in it.
  • Here is my Pencil. I light it and smoke it. I don't feel the pleasurable effects of nicotine.
  • Although smoking the burning Pencil does not reduce the cravings or withdrawal symptoms of quitting, it will reduce my rewarding effects of smoking.
    • It is designed to curb the "high" smokers feel when they light up.
    • In fact I feel really "low" smoking all this wood/graphite. It is wanting to make me thrown up.

Nowadays whenever I think of smoking I think of how I felt like throwing up. Bingo, I have been cured of smoking. And Boy was it Cheaper than getting that vaccine! And less painful getting "shot" of it too !!

Conclusion Drawn: Smoking Pencils can help you Quit Smoking.

Thank you for all the research dollars ! They are paying for my new wheels.

If you loved my logic, here is another example for you about the Scientist and the Frog. [philippinestoday.net]

Re:Quitting Smoking With Smokin' Pencils ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7823677)

Geez, could you at least be stupid in a logical way?

Re:Quitting Smoking With Smokin' Pencils ... (1)

Tango42 (662363) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823679)

The flaw in your logic is that when you discover the pencil doesn't make you feel good you will go back to the cigs. If you have the vaccine you can't go back. (unless you stop having the vaccine shots, which is a problem someone has already pointed out)

Re:Quitting Smoking With Smokin' Pencils ... (1)

leoaugust (665240) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823736)

It's not really a flaw, it is the strength. Extending my ealier "logical" arguements ...

Using the vaccine, once you discover cigs don't get you "high" any longer, you would find something else to get a similar "high." And this is called crossing the "gateway", i.e a gateway drug. And worse you might never get the same high with anything else, and you will be setting on an endless search ...

By smoking pencils you know that cigs can still get you high if you want to. And you don't need to go around chasing something else. There is no time wasted searching - The choice is right there confronting you.

So, the real test is not in whether the cig exists or not, and not whether you can smoke it or not, but it is a question of "Do you want to get High?"

Re:Quitting Smoking With Smokin' Pencils ... (1)

Tango42 (662363) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824042)

That means you are relying purely on Will Power, if Will Power works for a person, then they don't need to worry about any special methods, the vaccine is for people who can't do it with just Will Power.

Re:Quitting Smoking With Smokin' Pencils ... (1)

cpeterso (19082) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824783)


The danger of cigarettes is not the nicotine. It's the smoke. Smoking nicotine-less cigarettes could still give you cancer. Chewing nicotine gum probably won't.

Reason Magazine has a pretty interesting article ("Snuff Treatment: Lying in the name of public health" [reason.com] ) about the US gub'mint lying to us about the dangers of chewing tabacco. Even though it is 90% less hazardous than cigarette smoking, numerous US health agencies repeatedly claim chewing tabacco is "just as dangerous" as smoking cigarettes.

Re:Quitting Smoking With Smokin' Pencils ... (1)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 10 years ago | (#7828046)

> # "So it just becomes like smoking a cigarette that has no nicotine in it," Hatsukami said.

Yeah. Something puzzles me about this. Your analogy of "Smoke a pencil! It's unpleasant!" hits it on the head. Smokers, riddle me this. (I'm a nonsmoker.)

An alcoholic who likes the taste of beer can drink non-alcoholic beer. (OK, obviously he doesn't like the taste of beer that much, but you get my drift :) He's doing himself no harm. I don't think I'd even call him a "drinker".

A reformed caffeine freak who likes a warm cuppa can drink decaf. (He's a sick person who needs psychological help and some real coffee), but he's no longer a caffeine freak.

A nicotine addict who enjoys the smell of cigarettes and/or the habit of having something in his hands to smoke can get himself "vaccinated" and light 'em up. He's getting no nicotine from his smokes, but damn it all, he's still a smoker. Still stinks up the closet whenever he hangs up his coat, and so on.

And yet, aren't most of the negative health effects (lung and other cancers) associated with smoking the result of the actual act of smoking (inhaling smoke), rather than nicotine addiction?

The act of smoking is certainly the only negative quality-of-life (read: "smells bad") factor here.

What I'm trying to say is: What would be wrong with going to the drugstore (and it's be a drugstore!), picking up a pack of nonprescription nicotine patches/gums labeled "Joe Camel Hides", or "Camel Chews", slapping one on, and enjoying your drug fix without bugging the rest of us.

We nonsmokers would win - we don't even know you're using. And because you're not smoking up our air while you get your fix, it's none of our business that you're using.

You'd win - you'd get your fix any time you wanted, and you'd cut your lung, throat, and other cancer risk to that of a nonsmoker. (Might cut your heart disease risk too, at least you're not inhaling CO. Not sure by how much, since nicotine's still a stimulant.)

Heck, even the tobacco companies might win. It's gotta be cheaper to produce the nicotine in a patch than it is to pay people to grow, haul, dry, and process all those tons of tobacco into cigarettes. And with nicotine-by-patch being widely available and destigmatized, overall usage might go back up.

My drugs of choice are alcohol and caffiene, for which liquids are ideal delivery devices. Gaseous or solid delivery of alcohol doesn't sound like fun. Solid caffeine, however, is available in the form of Penguin Mints, which are a cool, refeshing twist on summer days when I don't feel like getting my fix via coffee :)

Smokers, as a user of alcohol and caffeine, I've nothing against your drug of choice. I just don't understand why the "cigarette" has to be the only delivery device for it. Why hasn't the market responded to what seems to be a pretty big pent-up demand for a more discreet nicotine delivery device?

Easy to quit... (3, Insightful)

traveyes (262759) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823673)



If you WANT to quit, you will. You don't need any drugs, devices, or enemas.

Everyone I know who has tried (and failed) to quit, failed because they did not want to quit smoking. They tried to quit because they just felt they should.

You can quit when you actually WANT too.

Mind over matter, and shit like that....

Re:Easy to quit... (1)

DarkDust (239124) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823794)

If you WANT to quit, you will. You don't need any drugs, devices, or enemas.

Everyone I know who has tried (and failed) to quit, failed because they did not want to quit smoking. They tried to quit because they just felt they should.

You can quit when you actually WANT too.

Mind over matter, and shit like that....

Having quit smoking myself a few months ago I absolutely agree ! If you don't like to quit you won't make it. I wanted to quit because my girlfriend smokes too much. She kept coughing while sleeping, keeping me from sleeping. So I said to myself, if I quit she has to quit too as I would otherwise annoy the hell out of her (I am currently };-)

I figured out that the worst part of quitting smoking was... what to do with my fingers ? Smoking gives your fingers and hand something to do, especially when you're nervous this is an important part of smoking.

My trick was simply having my cool wooden trick jo-jo with me :-) I regained a lot of my jo-jo skills while quitting smoking ;-)

Re:Easy to quit... (2, Interesting)

acousticiris (656375) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824335)

Everyone I know who has tried (and failed) to quit, failed because they did not want to quit smoking.

Never underestimate the power of a physical addiction, my friend.
Having been a former smoker, I can tell you I wanted to quit. I wanted to quit about 1700 times. I succeeded on the 1700th try. You know its bad for you, you can feel it every day when you light up, but there's that tinge of happiness that comes from the action.
It's been 10 years since I quit and even now there are still times I'm jamming on some code...get pissed off at it and think "Gee, if I could just go outside, light up and relieve my stress, I could get back to this mess of code and maybe make some sense of it."
10 Years and I wonder if they succeeded in eliminating all of the health risks and side effects if I wouldn't light up right now.

Also, it's not really mind over matter. That same mind is telling you "one more won't hurt you, you can go back to quitting after you have one more...". You go through this sort of multiple-personality situation where you have one half of you telling you not to touch the damn things, and the other half telling you that you're life would be entirely easier if you just give in.
Some people find it easier than others, I found it to be one of the most difficult things I have had to do. And I remeber that every time a temptation rolls my way.

The interesting thing I noticed when I was a smoker was how many people who had never smoked in their life (or never were addicted) would tell me how easy it is to quit. It was also amazing how many of these people had their own unhealthy habbits (being a geek, I've seen plenty of other geeks who happen to have a few hundred extra pounds they would be well off to get rid of). Now they're not putting anyone else at risk with their bad habbit, but I wounder if I walked up to someone who was fat and said "eat healthy and exercise every day like I do, it's easy." how many people would agree with me. (Hint: not many!)
Cigarrettes feel like food to an addict.

Re:Easy to quit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7825943)

One thing to keep in mind though is that some of those people claiming to never have been addicted to anything might be trying to slip one under the radar. Being addicted to speed I think would give one a fair idea of the troubles involved in breaking an addiction, but it could hurt their professional and social lives if news of their old habits got out.

Re:Easy to quit... (1)

traveyes (262759) | more than 10 years ago | (#7828028)

Never underestimate the power of a physical addiction, my friend.

I hear ya... I chewed for 10+ years. I shouldn't have said it was "easy"... and yes, I still crave it from time to time. Nicotine is nasty!

But still, when I actually wanted to quit, I did.

How long before... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7823686)

...your kids will have to be vaccinated against drugs before entering public schools.

good idea (1)

penguin7of9 (697383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824200)

People experience the effects of drugs differently because they differ genetically. That probably influences their susceptibility to addiction. It would make a lot of sense to try to even the playing field by vaccinating kids before they become addicted.

Of course, it shouldn't be mandatory. But it should be offered free to any parent who wants it for their child. And it should be carefully tested and monitored initially to make sure it doesn't have any unintended consequences.

Re:bad idea (2, Insightful)

corpsiclex (735510) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824775)

I disagree. I smoked when i was 13/14 for about a year before I quit. I obviously don't think smoking/drugs is a good thing, but I think that (however ridiculous it may sound) the experience of feeling the effects of different drugs should not be robbed from people without their consent. And it isn't like you can undo the effects of a vaccine once you are (what society considers to be) old enough to responsibly make your own decisions. I think the decision to use drugs or to experiment with feeling high should be made by those that it truly concerns, the individual. Not the individual's parents. I can also tell you that for me, quitting smoking was a valuable experience. I didn't quit for my parents, I quit for me and for my friends and my life, and it really did help me grow up quite a bit.

Re:bad idea (1)

penguin7of9 (697383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825262)

I smoked when i was 13/14 for about a year before I quit.

How lucky that you managed to quit. Most teenagers who start can't quit, and they lose decades of their lives.

the experience of feeling the effects of different drugs should not be robbed from people without their consent.

Parents have the right to have parts of their children's penises removed without their consent and with little demonstrable benefit. Talk about robbing people of experiences. I'd worry about that long before I'd worry robbing kids of the experience of becoming drug addicts.

Re:bad idea (1)

corpsiclex (735510) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826040)

Parents have the right to have parts of their children's penises removed without their consent
i agree with you completely that

Re:bad idea (1)

the_mad_poster (640772) | more than 10 years ago | (#7828033)

... the experience of feeling the effects of different drugs should not be robbed from people without their consent.

Erm... now, I'd be against the government or any other entrenched institution making it mandatory (nothing quite like mandatory vaccinations against "illegal" or "immoral" behavior, is there?) but give me a break! That's like saying that people should not be robbed of feeling the effects of different diseases without their consent. It could be argued that there's the difference in being infected and choosing to shoot up, but given that we don't consider children under 16 capable of making pretty much any decisions for themselves, that's not really an issue. Hell, we don't consider people intelligent and mature enough to make decisions on chemical ingestion until the ripe old totally arbitrary age of 21 here in the U.S.

If parents want to decide beforehand that their children will be immune to the addictive properties of harmful drugs like cocaine and nicotine, so be it. Parents have every right to guide their child's development in a responsible manner, so until an individual is X years old, it's not up to them.

or.. (1)

rf0 (159958) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823796)

ban smoking and make sure people don't start. Surely that would be cheaper for the health service. Of course that doesn't take into account the amount of tax the goverment gets off the sales

Rus

Re:or.. (1)

Unordained (262962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7823983)

... or we could even put on our tinfoil hats and wonder if the government would prefer -not- to ban smoking, or even do too much to prevent it. if something's bad, we usually either ban it or leave it alone (protecting it as freedom of something or other, or, for once, staying out of people's homes) ... but instead we tax it up to that "magic level" where it doesn't discourage people too much, and brings in a nice revenue. ethics and consistency be damned.

Re:or.. (2, Insightful)

IM6100 (692796) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825844)

The cost to 'the health service' of smoking is complex. Smoking causes a considerable number of people to live shorter lives than they would otherwise. Living shorter lives can actually reduce the cost to 'the health service.'

The whole 'ban smoking' thing sounds pretty fascistic, though. It's a plant that grows naturally. It's an activity that many people enjoy. The fact that other people (busybodies) disapprove isn't really relevant.

Maybe we should ban a whole lot of things that make people less productive to 'the hive.'

Re:or.. (1)

ZerroDefex (707459) | more than 10 years ago | (#7829838)

Remember a little event called the Prohibition, when America tried to ban alcohol? That went over real well, didn't it?

how I stopped (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7823842)

A friend of mine was smoking American Spirit's. They advertise themselves as having no added chemicals and just being "pure" tobacco. It's well known that brands like Camel and Marlboro put added chemicals in their smokes, for whatever reason. Apparently a good amount of the addiction in these brands comes from some of the added chemicals, not just the nicotine.

Anyway, my friend said that as soon as she switched to American Spirit, she just didn't feel the need to smoke as much and the though of it kind of disgusted her. So I switched too.

After about a month, the very thought of smoking just disgusted me to the point where I stopped doing it. I started smoking their strongest ones, of which I could only finish about half a cigarette, then went to the medium, then their ultra-lights.

It's ironic using cigarettes to quit smoking, but it worked for me. The only side-effects I've had is that I feel much better. The smell of smoke in bars even disgusts me now.

Re:how I stopped (1)

jrpascucci (550709) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825239)

Um...could it merely be that you were forcing yourself to smoke lousy cigs which made you disgusted? :-)

Frankly, I wish all the money that we're taking from the Tobacco companies in settlements, all the money we spend on anti-tobacco ads, all the money we take in to taxes on tobacco, and, heck, throw in the money we spent developing this vaccine had gone in to Lung Cancer (or just Cancer-in-general) Research.

But, it didn't, and it won't. It goes to lawyers. It goes to pork. It goes to propping up a overly beaurocratic, social-welfareish political system. And, oh yeah, a little bit of some of the money goes to substandard treatment of destitute ex-smokers.

Thank you, anti-smoking lobby and political hacks on both sides of the fence, for making the world a better place by decreasing the tax base which should have been all along going to fund cancer research.

Re:additives & diary of an addiction (1)

A55M0NKEY (554964) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825349)

There may be something to that. Most cigarrettes put urea or ammonia in the tobacco to raise the PH. At a high PH, the nicotine assumes the free-base form which is more quickly absorbed. The same trick ( using baking soda instead of dried piss to raise the PH ) is used to turn cocaine into the more potent and addictive crack form.

I started smoking a few years ago with cigars. At first I would puff one once in a while because it was something to do with my friends. I would not inhale ( who the hell inhales cigars anyway? - Ouch! )

I did enjoy cigars. I did eventually form a habit for them. Basically any chemical you ingest that you enjoy is habit forming since once you learn that in certain situations a substance can make you feel better, it takes willpower to not ingest that substance when it is available in those situations.

Tobacco to smoke can make you less bored when 'hanging out' aka 'listening to boring people jabber'.

A Pepsi can make you cool and refreshed on a hot summer day, or cleanse your mouth with bubbles after some food. One could say I am addicted to Pepsi too. Water will meet my biological needs but soda is more refreshing.

I felt my addiction begin with cigars. I could feel the mild 'nic-fit' feelings I had at the time. I didn't know if this was as bad as a nic fit could get or not, but I didn't think it was *THAT* bad. I tested whether or notI could quit or not. After a day the 'nic-fit' feeling went away. Soon, nicotine's effect was gone without a trace. Downtime still exists. Not hungry but wanna take the eyes off the screen for a while at lunch anyway. I'll just go outside and smoke a cigar. It's winter? I'd sit in the car and listen to the radio smoking a cigar.

After the thrill of quitting successfully would wear off, I'd be bored and realize that there was no 'nic-fit' 'compelling' me to want to smoke. But I was bored, and could enjoy a cigar or a pipe and it wouldn't be that bad. I stayed away from cigarrettes at the time because I didn't want to inhale or mess up my lungs. A couple or three cigars a day or even a pack of 8 Backwoods Wild Rum Flavored if I happened to be bored and was 'hanging out' with a bunch other smokers wouldn't give me mouth cancer. Or it might, but I was willing to take that small chance for the added pleasure it gave my life.

Let me clarify: 'Hanging out' is boring - not constantly, but with many periods of boredom in there. Boredom and natural restlessness - not peer pressure is what makes the tobacco intake go up in a crowd. Smokers generally don't give a damn if you smoke ciggarettes or not.

'Ciggarettes' is the operative word. Smokers won't care if you smoke a cigarrette, but they often object to a stinky cigar or pipe. I was a cigar smoker 'hanging out' his friends who was not inconsiderate enough to light up a stogie. I was bored, restless and slightly nic-fitting, of course I would pick up a pack of camels on a beer run.

Wow! Ciggarettes sure are convienient! You can smoke em lots of places you can't light a cigar or pipe. Maybe they don't have the flavor of gourmet tobaccos but they are still something to do when there is nothing else to do. You have to smoke like a chimny though to have enough smoke coat your mouth to get a relaxing buzz and that's expensive! Have to start inhaling... Oh well there go my lungs... But I've been known to smoke a joint now and then. If I only use cigarettes at those social times when I might smoke a joint then that's once-in-a-while and isn't likely to cause the health problems associated with chronic smoking. I don't like pot that much though. Haven't smoked it in about 6 months and wouldn't miss it if I never smoked it again in my life.. I don't like being impared. Rather smoke a ciggarette.

Gee these cigarette things are potent. I smoke one and it gives quite a buzz.

Notice nic-fits in no-smoking zones are getting a bit worse. Better try quitting again. Can't concentrate for a day, but then all better. Yup still can quit. Have been smoking almost a pack a day. That's no good for me. Should make it permanent. Week or two goes by. Am bored. I'll have one. Oh yeah that feels real good. Know immediately I am 'addicted' again. Don't care. I can quit again as easily as I did before. I think I'll smoke for while more and quit later.

Ok, a pack a day. Need to smoke at lunch to concentrate in the afternoon. Light up immediately when I get out of work.

Haven't smoked a cigar in a long time. It's the middle of the evening and I tend to go to the convienience store to get another pack This gradually moves to two packs a day since the half pack from the night before dries up at lunch and I end up getting another one for the evening when on the way home. Almost $10.00 a day, very expensive and very unhealthy.

Quit again ( have done this a few times ). Now nic-fits are somewhat severe. Cold turkey makes it impossible to concentrate that whole day. Time drags on. It sucks. It can be willpowered through.

Day 1 w/o a ciggarette - ok. The evening was not as bad as the morning. At times I wondered if quitting was worth it.

Day 2 was easier but concentration still somewhat foggy. Time still somewhat slow.

Day 3 A few urges but concentration returning. Tomorrow I'll be fine.

Day 4 Yup - fine. Am no longer nic fitting at all. Quitting smoking sucks! I don't want to do that again. All I have to do is remeber I don't want to be a smoker when I am bored or stressed and there are ciggarettes around for the rest of my life. The first ciggarette you smoke after quitting is always exquisite. Not exquisite like taking your hand off a hot burner. You aren't tortured by nic cravings eternally. It is just that becoming a nicotine addict is becoming a nicotine gourmand. Nicotine is good. Good like a chocolate bar is good. It is the only thing that can salve your brain like it does, just as chocolate is the only thing that can melt in your mouth the way it does. When you are addicted to nicotine you appreciate subtle sensations someone smoking their first tobacco wouldn't even notice. I didn't notice a thing until I'd been smoking for a while.

And a ciggarette is the 'best' way to start smoking again because it hits you with the whole rush. You are super sensitive to it ( hehe I sound like Cosmo ) after quitting for awhile. Probably some of that is because of the urea they mix in the tobacco to turn the nicotine into the 'crack' form. That almost immediate and clearly felt rush immediately after inhaling can really drive home where that wonderful feeling came from.

But it's not wanting the rush that makes you start smoking again. It's knowing that smoking another cigarette *will* help you deal with the situation be it boredom or stress or whatever. It will help, but it also means you'll have to quit again. But then if you start again you never really quit at all... If smoking helps me get through the day, then maybe I don't want to be a non-smoker. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow I certainly hope I'll have had a cigarrette while waiting for it.. Of course smoking is as deadly as any badly driven bus only not immediately..

Do I choose to take the risk? A good number to remember is that supposedly smoking kills 1/3 of the people who start ( though anti-smoking statistics are notorious for being almost fraudulently misleading - too bad because the real statistics could be advertised honestly which would speak against smoking. The truth would be much scarier than bullshit spouted by anti-smoking zealots who you know are lying to you ). Supposing ( without looking it up ) that smoking kills 1/3 of those who start, how many of those quit permanently? Of those who don't quit permanently, the fraction that die of it must be even higher. ( maybe even approaching 1/3 hehe )

If you start again, you are no longer in the fraction that quit permanently. You will smoke until you get sick of it for one reason or another ( health fears/expense/whatever ) and then keep smoking until you can muster another 3 days worth of willpower.

A note on stop smoking aids containing nicotine: Maybe some people find them helpful, but there is one thing wrong with them - they contain nicotine! They're frikken nic-teasers! They delay the time ( 4th day cold turkey ) when physical urges cease! I can't imagine putting up with that for months.... Maybe ONE patch to bring you down, but then you'll have 3 days of physical urges after that, and that first day you will still be bored and want a ciggarrette. Maybe substuting ONE DAYS WORTH OF cigars ( throwing any extras in the toilet ) for the one patch would help ameliorate the I smoked a cigarrette - I got a buzz association but that fourth day completely nic-free is golden.

Getting there sucks but is doable by anyone and really not *that* bad. Remembering why you quit and choosing not to smoke ever again afterwards even though smoking really is good and really does help you deal with things is the hard part.

Re:additives & diary of an addiction (1)

curious.corn (167387) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826472)

Wonderful post... very good description and I totally agree with the conclusion. It sucks being addicted to something you'll have to avoid permanently (especially when everyone around you is smoking the damn things). BTW, tho only time I managed to quit for a decent amount of time (8 months) was a cold turkey and every time I was bored and thought "... hell, one won't do me bad..." I used the AA strategy "... but then you'll have to reset the day-count, that would be a shame..." It did work pretty well...

nicotine (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7824061)

Doesn't nicotine look like a neurotransmitter? (I forget which one, but your brain is chock full of nicotinate receptors). I'd be wary of a nicotine-binding antibody, it might well bind to a neurotransmitter... and that would not be good.

Re:nicotine (1)

D+iz+a+n+k+Meister (609493) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824414)

Good point.

This just shows how much people have blindly accepted the view that if you smoke, you're worse than Hitler. People will recklessly modify their immune systems to "vaccinate" themselves from nicotine addiction.

I'd rather die a much more "natural" cancer death, than die from a statistically insignificant reaction to a "vaccine" put out by a company looking to make a quick buck on the misery of others.

BTW, cold turkey 2 years ago after smoking for 11.

I'm glad (1)

Carmelia (718891) | more than 10 years ago | (#7824189)

I'm glad it didn't have to come to that for me to quit smoking.
Yeah, I used them patches but it was because I love my friends, anyone who knows someone who quit smoking cold turkey knows what I mean :)

Anyways, I'm glad because at least I can feel prouder about having quit with littler help than those future vaccinated guys.
Also, patches help you a lot psychologically because it's very very gradual. You have about four months to give up the patches and during that time you learn to kick off addiction, it's not just nicotine addiction, it's all the impulsions that make you an addicted person. In other words, I learned how to not substitude my nicotine addiction with alcohol/your favorite drug :).
But if the end result with the vaccine is less smokers in the world, I'm all for it.

Smoker's high? Really? I'm missing out. (1)

Madame Sosostris (732780) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825839)

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't really get "high" off cigarettes. I get a little woozy off the first one of the morning, but it's not a pleasant feeling. Subsequent cigarettes have no real effect (and I only smoke ten a day). They don't make me more alert, or keep me awake.

It might be that there is an effect, one so subtle as to escape my notice, but if it's that subtle I doubt it factors greatly in my addiction.

If they could invent a drug that would stop me from feeling like Spike Spiegel every time I lit up, maybe they'd have a chance...

Don't Start (0, Flamebait)

Chasuk (62477) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825935)

Off-topic rant BEGINS

I'll be honest, I don't care how many people smoke, or how much death or suffering it causes (second-hand smoking deaths are grossly exaggerated if you read the current research about it). I've loved very few people who was actually stupid enough to start.

If you are such a fucking moron that you start smoking, then you will eventually reduce the surface population by one smoker, and my clothes won't stink as much when I go to the club. I just hope that it happens before they have children.

Think about it: a person adopts a habit that reduces his lifespan, makes his clothes stink, his breath bad, and his teeth yellow, just to be cool or tough? Are such shallow cretins really contributors to the gene pool, anyway? Youth isn't an excuse. If it was, we would all be smokers. But the non-cretinous teens never start smoking. "I like smoking" isn't an excuse either: if it were discovered tomorrow that 350,000 people a year died from eating bananas, bananas would rot on the shelves, and only the suicidal would start eating bananas.

My own children (both late teens) have never smoked, nor have any of their friends. When I expressed surprise at this recently, they both said to me, hurt: "You mean you think we would hang around with losers?"

Yielding to the temptation to smoke is a personality defect that usually means you have other, more striking defects which eliminate you from my list of potential friends, anyway. It shouts to me "I am weak" or "I am an unthinking moron" so loudly that you will never become more than a tolerated acquaintance.

Yes, this is a troll, except that I believe everything that I have typed.

For what it's worth, I don't think the law should ban smoking anywhere. It is the right of every smoker to be a stupid fuck. I just won't go to any restaurant that allows smoking, and let my dollars set their customer-smoking policy.

Off-topic rant FINISHES

Re:Don't Start (1)

derubergeek (594673) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826010)

You obviously would have hated Einstein.

Re:Don't Start (1)

Vegeta99 (219501) | more than 10 years ago | (#7829889)

I hereby yeild using mod points to simply responding to the rant!

I smoke. I'm not a moron.

Why? Addiction. Moderation. I fucking like the taste.

So, I'm probably gonna die a few years sooner than every other non-smoker just because I chose a disgusting (to some), expensive habit. Big deal.

If it were discovered tomorrow that bananas were deadly, we'd still be eating them. McDonald's food is unhealthy, but the parking lot is still packed and the drive-thru is backed up every lunch hour of every day. It all depends how you look at it. Someone likes McDick's, so they eat there, even if they know it's gonna make them a fat fuck. They just look at it as being (semi) tasty and quick, not deadly. I like smoking, I like the social part of smoking, so I quietly overlook the it's-gonna-kill-me part.

Do you drive? I don't suppose you avoid travelling because you might sometime be met with a 65MPH head-on collision with a tractor trailer.

Only a matter of time before it's mandatory (-1, Flamebait)

kaltkalt (620110) | more than 10 years ago | (#7825986)

They'll start putting it in the water, or giving the shots at birth, etc. Whatever happened to freedom? Freedom means being allowed to do things that are dumb/unhealthy/dangerous. And don't give me any of that "your second-hand smoke hurts me" crap, as we all know that's a load of crap. Now, if you want to quit smoking for health reasons, good for you--you have my best wishes. But when possible, the gov't will start giving mandatory anti-THC/opiate/alcohol/etc vaccines at birth.

that being said, i think the word "vaccine" in the title of this thread is highly misused... it seems these shots allow people to quit smoking much more easily.

Re:Only a matter of time before it's mandatory (3, Informative)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 10 years ago | (#7826230)

And don't give me any of that "your second-hand smoke hurts me" crap, as we all know that's a load of crap.

That's a load if I ever saw one. Go have a look at the incidence of childhood asthma among children with parents who smoke versus those who don't. Come back and let us know what you find.

Consider that the University of Wisconsin medical school estimates annual health care costs of $4.6 billion for treating the asthma, ear, and respiratory infections of kids living in smoking households.

I watched my girlfriend suffer for years living with a smoking parent. When they finally quit, the immediate improvement in her health was remarkable. Smoking affects no one but the smoker? Give me a break.

Why is Smoking Legal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7826236)

I don't understand why the most lethal form of nicotine use (smoking) is unrestricted for any adult while less lethal forms (gum and patches) require medical prescriptions. Isn't this ass-backwards? That's like letting people use morphine unrestricted, but requiring a prescription to use aspirin. If we're going to let people use nicotine, why not let them use it without killing themselves and those around them?

Quitting Smoking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7829172)

In the early 1980's there wasn't the huge political backlash against smoking there is now. Newscasters commonly had a cigarette in their hands on-air and, I remember clearly, my grade school teachers used to smoke in their break room. A soon as I was able to buy cigarettes, I started smoking and, of course, got addicted.

For those of you who don't smoke, addiction is like this: I smoked because I had to. I didn't enjoy it, I smoked because if I didn't I felt sick. Imagine the worst flu you can have and one cigarette will cure it instantly. I told myself that I enjoyed it, that there was no reason to stop, only 20% of the people who smoke get sick, it wouldn't be me, and as many other lies to support my addiction as you can imagine. Smokers are accomplished liars, I know, I was one.

Now, let's talk about quitting:

1: Any help is good help.
- "The Patch," Gum, Inhalers, or any other form of NRT (Nicotine Replacement Therapy) do help but will have no effect at all without other forms of therapy.

- MAOI's and other drugs can also help a smoker quit, but again, they are pointless and worthless if used by themselves.

2: Virtually All smokers are at least thinking about quitting.

3: Smokers have no idea what the costs to others are of their smoking
- They have no idea that you can smell a cigarette from across the block.
- They can't fathom the fact that they stink and you can smell it hours after they are finished with their cigarette. To them, they smell fine.
- ...not to mention the well-documented dangers of second-hand smoke.

4: Smokers have no idea what the costs to themselves are:

- Smokers miss work -- even while they are at work. The addiction is so bad that when it comes time to have a cigarette, it's all a smoker can think about. There is no room to think about work.

- Smokers have a greatly diminished ability to do physical work, to breathe, to smell, and to taste. As a smoker, I had no idea about what I was missing, but when I quit, the difference I felt was amazing.

In short, It's nice that there might be a new product to help people quit. I used the patch, and it took the edge off, but it didn't quit for me. The program I used was at stopsmokingcenter.net, and I would not have been able to quit without it. There is no easy route for a smoker to take. Smoking's a powerful addiction and smokers need all the help they can get.

no, smoking really is an addiction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7829691)

neuroscience has demonstrated that smoking causes the brain to release antidepressants; these are chemically identical to (but far more pure than) some prescription medication. many people who smoke are simply mildly depressed individuals who have discovered that they can self-medicate with something legal and effective -- these people don't need to "quit smoking", they just need "a better/more-socially-acceptable prescription".

yes, i think smoking is disgusting. yes, i think california's "no smoking in bars/restaurants" law is stupid (it should really have been handled as an air quality standards issue, with free market economics doing the rest). but i can't demonize anyone's personal choice of medication -- as long as people are polite and clean up after themselves, i don't care what drugs they like.

Before you start on rants: a nicotine *vaccine* (1)

seestuffgo (736308) | more than 10 years ago | (#7829781)

Before you people all go off on rants based on some basic misunderstanding, consider this

(1) A nicotine vaccine does NOT solve the chemical addiction at all. Your body would still have the cravings for the a cigarette, because when you smoke it...the nicotine doesn't make it to the brain. Your brain still yells out: "give me something to stop this withdrawal"

(2) A nicotine vaccine actually would help the emotional side of the addiction. The emotional addictions follows thus: your body needs a chemical, you associate that chemical with a cigarette, and therefore you smoke a cigarette to meet your body's need. If you stop associating the cigarette with meeting the body's need, then you stop having a desire for a cigarette. Now you just want some nicotine (e.g., patch, gum, etc.). Else, you can feel free to smoke that cigarette for the other purposes (social, comfort, etc.).

It's like decaf coffee. Doesn't fix your chemical craving for caffeine, but it's sure as hell nice to drink when you want to warm up.

(3) Notice too that they call this a "vaccine". Is the point of a vaccine to cure something after you've got it? Not really. It's a preventative measure. So while you can argue the merits of trying to "prevent" nicotine addiction (and also, who on earth would pick up the habit if they already know they don't want the nicotine from it)... this is not a therapy aimed as a one day fix.

It's not a nicotine de-addiction treatment: it's a nicotine vaccine

Smoking Vaccine? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7829910)

If this vaccine and others are at all viable, possible, and not merely expensive 'tonic cure-all' solutions to what are basic social behavioral issues rather than 'health' issues. . . how far off could it be to bio-engineer 'safe' products to smoke rather than try and curb centuries old habits and customs?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>