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E-Voting Firm VoteHere Discloses October Break-In

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the what-are-the-28%-thinking-exactly dept.

United States 172

linuxwrangler writes "In the ongoing saga of electronic voting 'security,' eVoting company VoteHere is the latest to reveal that they were the victim of a computer break-in. According to VoteHere founder, Jim Adler, the concern isn't about their source code which they plan to reveal 'eventually,' anyway, but is about the possible release of salary and other HR data. Astoundingly, the 'hot poll' associated with this story has (as this is being posted) 28% of respondents saying they would trust their vote on the internet and 41% saying 'not now, but maybe soon.' Feel free to cast your vote." Reader nSignIfikaNt points to the Assocated Press' article as carried by CNN.

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slow prox.. and to all a good night (-1, Offtopic)

(TK3)Max (736288) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832512)

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TROLLKORE HEAD, I'M IN YOUR BED
I'M FIZZY FIZZY WIZZY, I'M OFF MY HEAD
jizz

Re:slow prox.. and to all a good night (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832533)

You know, that might be funny (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832544)

if that server's response time was faster than Steven Hawking in a 100 yard dash. I want to stick my pee pee in your poo poo hole.

Re:slow prox.. and to all a good night (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832949)

God, that is worse than goatse [goatse.cx] . Maybe I have just become immune to goatse [goatse.cx] , but this was fucking sick!

TROLL KORE i5 PHA1L YOUR (-1)

SpongeScrodSpareCock (717608) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832935)

*_t_r_o_l_l_s_e_x_*_t_r_o_l_l_s_e_x_*_t_r_o_l_l_*_ [goatse.cx]
t_______________________________________________s_ _
r_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______p_ _
o|_______|_____________\_________|_______|______o_ _
l|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____n_ _
l`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____g_ _
s_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
e__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
x___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
*____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____s_ _
t______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____c_ _
r_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____r_ _
o_______/\_|___C_____)/I-H-ATE\_(_____>__|_/__o _ _
l______/_/\|___C_____)__E-W-E___(___>___/__\____d_ _
l_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___*_ _
s_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__s_ _
e____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__p_ _
x____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_a_ _
*___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_r_ _
t___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_e_ _
r___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|*_ _
o___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|c_ _
l__|_________/_/________|____|_____|_________|o_ _
l__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|c_ _
*_t_r_o_l_l_s_e_x_*_t_r_o_l_l_s_e_x_*_t_r_o_l_l_k_



VoteHere, Inc. is a global software company delivering advanced e-voting technology to election providers since 1996. Our technology ensures that every vote is counted as intended while ensuring voter privacy. VoteHere's product offerings include VHTI, election verification technology, and RemoteVote, online voting election platform. VHTi provides election verification for electronic voting systems, giving you provable end-to-end election confidence. More on VHTi >> RemoteVote is a reliable e-voting platform to power secure, remote electronic elections world-wide. RemoteVote is available through our licensing partners.

PCLinuxOS 2K4 Preview 4 is a live Knoppix style cd based on Mandrake 9.2 that runs entirely from a bootable CD. Data on the CD is uncompressed on the fly, allowing up to 2 GB worth of system and programs on one CD including a complete X server, KDE 3.1.4 and Gnome 2.4, and large packages like OpenOffice 1.1final and Mozila 1.5 plus plugins. Since it runs solely off the CD, PCLinuxOS makes an excellent portable Linux demo or system rescue disk, but its completeness makes it a good general purpose desktop as well. PCLinuxOS should work on most modern computer hardware. Recommended memory to run is 256mb or more. A lot of work has been done over the past 4 weeks but a lot of work still needs to be done. TheDarb has set up a mailing list if you would like to track the progress of this project. If you have perl programming skills or would like to learn to build your own live cd then please check the mklivecd website and get on their development mailing list. Disclaimer & License Agreement The Software Products and attached documentation are provided "as is", with no warranty, to the extent permitted by law. PCLinuxOS will, in no circumstances and to the extent permitted by law, be liable for any special, incidental, direct or indirect damages whatsoever (including without limitation damages for loss of business, interruption of business, financial loss, legal fees and penalties resulting from a court judgment, or any other consequential loss) arising out of the use or inability to use the Software Products, even if PCLinuxOS has been advised of the possibility or occurrence of such damages. LIMITED LIABILITY LINKED TO POSSESSING OR USING PROHIBITED SOFTWARE IN SOME COUNTRIES To the extent permitted by law, PCLinuxOS or its distributors will, in no circumstances, be liable for any special, incidental, direct or indirect damages whatsoever (including without limitation damages for loss of business, interruption of business, financial loss, legal fees and penalties resulting from a court judgment, or any other consequential loss) arising out of the possession and use of software components or arising out of downloading software components from one of PCLinuxOS' sites which are prohibited or restricted in some countries by local laws. This limited liability applies to, but is not restricted to, the strong cryptography components included in the Software Products. The GPL License and Related Licenses The Software Products consist of components created by different persons or entities. Most of these components are governed under the terms and conditions of the GNU General Public License, hereafter called "GPL", or of similar licenses. Most of these licenses allow you to use, duplicate, adapt or redistribute the components which they cover. Please read carefully the terms and conditions of the license agreement for each component before using any component. Any question on a component license should be addressed to the component author and not to PCLinuxOS. PCLinuxOS reserves its rights to modify or adapt the Software Products, as a whole or in parts, by all means and for all purposes.

i feel like (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832983)

we're seeing the grand finale of a troll fireworks display. wow.

GNAA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832513)

- Slink around, shuffling your feet and bobbing your neck like the lazy retard
you are.
- Walk down the middle of the street because you don't know what a sidewalk is
for.
- Hang out at carwashes and mini-marts because everybody knows these are the
best places to be a dope, I mean dope.
- If you're a nigger bitch, shit three nigger babies into the world before 17
years of age. This assures that welfare money will support you, so your
nigger men have more time to commit crimes. Oh yes, make sure each nigger
baby has a different father.
- Bastardize the English language in the name of nigger culture. Make sure
that several terms have multiple meanings and others have ambiguous meanings
and that only 50% of nigger words are even complete words. Real niggers will
know what you're trying to say.
- As a culture, make sure there are always more bucks in prison than in
college at any given time.
- Hang out in packs of 10 to 15 and make sure everyone acts as annoying as
possible. This helps to promote nigger individuality.
- Always talk loud enough so everyone in the 'hood' can fucking hear you, and
if they are niggers, they will know what your saying, bro.
- Wear clothes that are 10 sizes too big, making sure the pants hang off your
ass. Also huge pants facilitate stealing (let me translate that: "it be
easier to lift dat 'box at the Kmart, homes"). If you have to hold them up
while you walk, it only looks badder.
- Park at least 5 junk cars in your yard while being careful not to use the
driveway. It's OK to abandon them in the street as long as it's in front of
someone else's crib.
- Exaggerate every motion, every tonal inflection and grab your dick a lot.
Have red carpet, blue walls, brass and overstuffed furnishings (all rented),
purple bathrooms and keep all windows covered so that no light can enter and
no cops can see in while you...
- Do drugs, sell drugs, make drugs.
- Turn your backyard into a junk yard. If you don't have a backyard, turn
your mother's into a junk yard. Eliminate every blade of grass.
- Travel around leaching off relatives, friends, salvation armies. Abandon
your children with them also.
- Smack your kids and yell at them a lot. Make them feel less than human and
that they have no future, which they don't because they're niggers like you.
- Drink cheap wine and malt liquor every day, forgetting that "malt liquor" is
just fortified cheap beer.
- If you're a nigger buck: fuck anything that moves, no matter how ugly she is.
After two eight-balls, even the ugliest, fattest nigger bitch will look good.
- Be charitable and covet fat, ugly white chicks. After all, they're niggers
too. They can't help being so undesirable to white men that they have to
fraternize with black dudes on a 20/20 trip. And white ho's are a special
trophy too, especially the not so ugly ones.
- Spray paint everything in sight with scribbles that mean nothing to White
people but mean things to fellow niggers (except niggers from another hood
who will probably try to kill you for tresspassing on their turf)
- Use the term "motherfucker" in every sentence. It's one of the most
versatile words in the nigger language, being a noun, verb, adjective and
complete mini-sentence in event you run out of thoughts.
- Stop in the middle of the street, blocking all traffic to converse with
fellow niggers and have complete disregard for everyone else.
- Delay everybody at the checkouts while you and 3 other dudes fumble around
for the $1.42 for the bottle of Magnum.
- Clog isles at Kmart with strollers, bastard kids and your fat selves. If
you're a cashier, never look at or be cordial to a customer and always talk
to other niggers while you ring up the customer.
- Overcharge customers at Taco Bell and pocket the difference.
- Drive your car while slouched so low that you can barely see over the wheel
(gangsta drivin').
- Get a job under affirmative action. Then sit around all day pretending that
you earned the position and that the other co-workers respect you. Whenever
you fuck up, scream "racism!" & hope you get enough Generation X liberals
in the jury.
- Never, I mean NEVER, take any responsibility for your actions. Always blame
others including Asians, Latinos, Mexicans, and especially Whites for your
sorry ass stupid lives.
- Advertise your "nation" (gang) with a bewildering array of colors that mean
nothing to any one but other nig's. Oh yes, if another nig violates your
"nation" i.e. garbage strewn empty lots and burned out tenements, shoot
their ass.
- Look for identity in murderous criminal gangs when you can't find it in
broken nigger homes because your mother was a 15 year old cokewhore and your
father is in jail doing 5 to 15 for pistol whipping a mini-mart cashier.
- Be all concerned with east/west connections, cellular phones, beepers, drive
by's and other trivial bullshit that Whites will never understand anything
about (what's to understand?)
- Lament ghetto gang life while at the same time...
- Listen to rap "music", which glorifies "gangsta" life, crime, drugs, murder,
early death, oppression of women. Rip off other legit music to fabricate rap
music which probably takes an engineering degree to "write" (because of the
technical know-how to operate the machines) while not requiring any music
talent at all. Then get some young criminal scum to perform it, after
changing his name to something stupid like Snoopy Dog. Spell the name of the
group with phonetics and use a number in it because nig's really like that.
At least rap is an opportunity, e.g. for young black criminals to further
their criminal careers. Rap needs only four things to be successful:
a producer, a promoter, a front-man flunky, and MTV to shove it down our
throats. Be sure to say absolutely nothing important during the 5 pages of
dialogue in a given rap joint other than "look at how much of a nigger I can
be." Then roll a joint in the joint and think about the joint while stylin'
to the joint.
- Show other lame-ass races the black race is unique by having a
culture/lifestyle that results in diseases/poverty/birth rates for blacks
consistently rising while it falls for the others.
- Fear and loathing of dogs is set in the genes for nig's. Of course bigotry
against blacks is set into the genes of dogs. So be sure to get a dog, tie
it up in the cold and mud and neglect it until it dies. Then start all over
again.
- Always have ten excuses involving hospitals for why you can't pay your
bill. When or if you finally settle up, pull out a big wad of bills out of
the welfare check to do it. Cash must be used because you long ago fucked
up your credit and checking account.
- Cram 5 generations into a two room government apartment and still be able to
neglect your kids.
- Die young. The #1 cause of death for nigger males between 15 and 30 is
murder.

DUH GNAA FAILS IT AGAIN! BIG FUCKING SHOCK! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832522)

Pardon me while I go deficate in HORROR!

I want to stick my pee pee in your poo poo hole.

I WANT TO STICK MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832514)



(Note to the TrollKore folk: I apologize for hijacking your ASCII art but I thought it was great. I'm not official TK, but as the "PEE PEE/POO POO HOLE" guy I thought I'd help you guys out. I hope you all succeed!)

I want to stick my pee pee in your poo poo hole

_ MM MM MMNMMMM MMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMM MMMNM MM M Fuck your mother
_ M_M_r'_.',._.',.',._.__________________.',._.',.', ___r_@MM Fuck your mother
_MM_W_M'_.',._.',.'---|Trollkore Forever!|---,_'_._`__7M_X_M Fuck your mother
_M,___M'_.',._.',.', _'------------------'_,_'_.',____M__B_0 Fuck your mother
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_M2_S_M_;_,_Xi'_.',. .',.',._.',.',._.', ',._.',.',___M7__ii@ Fuck your mother
_MS_@MM_X0'_.',._.',.',____S_____;i'_.',._.',.',__ ____MM__M_M Fuck your mother
_MWMMM'_._`__a0BMMMZ.',._`__XB_rS___.MMMMMMMMMB'_. ',___M__M_M Fuck your mother
_MM_MM____MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMr'_._`_:MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MW___MM_MiS Fuck your mother
_ MMM2__MMMM.____.MMMMMMMMMM __ XMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM._BM:MX Fuck your mother
_ MMM__MMMMM|._. |MMMMMMMMMMM _ MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM__MMMM Fuck your mother
_MMZ__BMMMMM||o| |MMMMMMMMMMM _ MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMB____MM Fuck your mother
_M____MMMMMM'----'MMMMMMMMMMM _ MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMW_WM__M Fuck your mother
WM__i_MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM _M MMMMMMMMMMM.____.MMM,_____M0 Fuck your mother
MX__r_MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM'_._` MMMMMMMMMM|._. |MMM'_._`_MM Fuck your mother
MZ____7MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM __._Z_ MMMMMMMMM||o| |MMM__X___ZM Fuck your mother
MM__Z__MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM; __MM_MM_ WMMMMMMM'----'MM__a____M0 Fuck your mother
_M__,r___XMMMMMMMMMMMMM ___:MMM_MMM:_ MMMMMMMMM MM____7____M Fuck your mother
_MM'_.',____,M0'_.',_____,,MMMB_MMMM_,____ZMMM:___ raW_____MM Fuck your mother
_ M_____ii_X___7__S_,2____SMMMM_MMMM'_.',______2:r'_ .',___M Fuck your mother
_ MM'_.',._.',._,_'_._`_8:MMMMM_MMMMM_;__;ii.',._,_' _._`_MM Fuck your mother
__ MM'_.',._.',.',______;WMMMMM_MMMMM_M'_.',._.',.',_ __.MM Fuck your mother
____ MMM'_.',._.',.',_____MMMMM_MMMMM'_.',._.',.',___XM MM Fuck your mother
____ 0MMMMr'_._,_'_.',____BMMM@_ZMMM;'_._,_'_._`__aMMMM M Fuck your mother
'_._` MMMMMM_M_,__;'_._,_'_._`_i'_._,_'_._`_i____MMMMaMa Fuck your mother
'_._` M__BMMMM_2_ZM__@r___Z'_.',___,,__._'___M__;M@___M Fuck your mother
'_._` MM___M2MMM8M___Z___XM___X,____M._r_____MMMM@____M Fuck your mother
'_._` MM___M___ZMMMMMMMMMMMiMMM_____WMSMMMMMMM_ZM____MM Fuck your mother
'_._`_ MW__MM__W__X___M___iMaXMMMMMMBM_S__7__:_MM____MX Fuck your mother
'_._`_ MM__XMM2MM_M___M___,r__M' ._`_r__B_aMBM_M2___iM Fuck your mother
'_.',__ M2__M__@__MMMMMMMMMr _M__M._MM_ZMZMM_;MM____MM Fuck your mother
'_.',___ M___MMM0_Z___M_ _MMB7MM2MM_M__S_____MW_____M Fuck your mother
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'_.',___ MM'_.',___2XMMMWMMMM0MMMMMMMMMMMM__r_____2M Fuck your mother
'_.',____ MM_:'_.',______;_____8'_.',._.',.',____MM Fuck your mother
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'_.',._.',.',___ rMMMZMM___;____B_____rMMMM Fuck your mother
'_.',._.',._,_'_._` irXS2MMMMMMB8ZMMMMX: Fuck your mother


I want to stick my pee pee in your poo poo hole

Why the Internet? (-1, Flamebait)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832526)

The internet is good for two things: 1) porn, and 2) warez.

I'd rather leave deciding the next leader of the free world to a bunch of morons in tropical climes than to trust the internet to carry voting information.

Re:Why the Internet? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832570)

don't forget - most of the morons you speak of moved to our beautiful tropical climes from cold northern ones when they retired.

Re:Why the Internet? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832671)

Linux is good for two things: 1) gay porn, and 2) stolen intellectual property (see SCO).

Bill G didn't see the internet coming but he knew just when to invest in the political system.

Re:Why the Internet? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832695)

The only morons in tropical climes are the snowbirds that have migrated down to retire. We don't want you here. Go away!

See? (5, Funny)

Shky (703024) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832542)

Problems with voting are clear and simple proof that fascist dictatorships are the only way to go.

E-Communism and E-Oppression would be far more successful, no doubt.

Re:See? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832866)

Problems with voting are clear and simple proof that fascist dictatorships are the only way to go.

E-Communism and E-Oppression would be far more successful, no doubt.

Mmmmmm.... DMCA

Measure the Slashdot Effect! (5, Informative)

c0dedude (587568) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832548)

Neato! I caught this story right when it went on slashdot's main page, 0/3 comments and got the vote tally, we can safely say that this is pre /. effect. Now, I think I know which way most slashdoteers are going to vote, and we've already seen vote skewing here [forbes.com] when a sig told people to vote no on Verisign all through September and October (it got around 5000 votes at the end of the month as I recall), let's see how slashdot affects a slightly larger traffic/voting site:

So here are the current vote totals, pre /. effect:

24692 Responces
27% Yes
41% Not today, but maybe soon
29% Never (Likely to spike? Let's see!)
2% None of the above

Re:Measure the Slashdot Effect! (1, Redundant)

focitrixilous P (690813) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832629)

I agree, and cannot see my vote going o'er the internet anytime in the future, but we (as a slashdot collective) are forever hopeful that our beloved Linux/BSD will find a way to do just about anything. While current e-voting has been massivly flawed, surely some enterprising devloper will come up with something about the problem someday. Until then, I'm content to make the trek out to a polling place once a year.

Re:Measure the Slashdot Effect! (4, Interesting)

whorfin (686885) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832737)

But isn't participating in this poll itself a form of 'voting' ?

Re:Measure the Slashdot Effect! (1)

ewhac (5844) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832899)

Where's the entry for Hank, the Angry Drunken Dwarf?

:-),
Schwab

If their internal network can be compromised... (5, Insightful)

Sikmaz (686372) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832549)

Why should we trust their voting systems without auditing?

Re:If their internal network can be compromised... (2, Informative)

MikeCapone (693319) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832590)

Exactly.

Lets not forget that these evoting corps seem to be doing everything in their power NOT to make it secure.

More E-Voting SNAFUs [slashdot.org] .

I just wish I remembered the news source that mentioned that the big 3 corps that made the voting material were big republican donators. Anybody has a link?

Re:If their internal network can be compromised... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832998)

I just wish I remembered the news source that mentioned that the big 3 corps that made the voting material were big republican donators.

Most people making over $40k/year outside of Hollywood and New York are Republicans so there's no conspiracy there. People want to keep what they earn and not have it taxed away by liberal Democrats to fund their "great society" socialism experiments. I will say though that the neo-con Republicans are doing a fascinating job of driving me even farther away from the party by spending us into a huge budget deficit. The point is to cut taxes and reduce spending morons, not cut taxes and increase spending. The defense department should've been cut to 10% of it's current size and the 400 billion dollar savings should've been applied as a tax cut. Nobody in the world wants America in their land so bring our troops home as a national defense force, lock down the borders, and stay the hell out of world affairs. The world hates us for interfering in their internal affairs so why rub salt on a wound? Let them fucking live in the 10th century if they want.

Re:If their internal network can be compromised... (3, Insightful)

Beryllium Sphere(tm) (193358) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832824)

You can't trust anything important without auditing. You can't even trust paper without the opportunity to do independent recounts.

There was something encouraging in the article, evidence that the company understands the concept of detection and response:

"It's true that systems would always be compromised," he said. "The point is, you want to know about it. ... If you can detect when those things happen, that's what's vitally important. Any ballots that get compromised will get detected, and that's what's crucial."

Not so good is that the article says their systems will allow voters to check their ballots after leaving the polling place. I hope the reporter misunderstood. Chaum's paper explains how you could verify that your vote got counted, was valid, and was what you expected -- but you don't want to be able to see what candidate the vote was for. That way lies intimidation and verifiable vote-buying.

What Slashdot didn't mention... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832947)

Is that it was a secure Linux network guarding an internal Windows network. So much for that always-secure bullshit posturing Slashbots love to put up all the time (never mind the breaches of Debian, GNOME, Gentoo, and the two break-ins at GNU/FSF...go ahead, biased mods, mod me down for stating simple facts).

Um... Suggestion... (1, Interesting)

LordKazan (558383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832553)

Why don't we make a very small linux distro that works with small puters with touchscreens and make a secure voting system.

Just to bite our thumb at them.

Re:Um... Suggestion... (1)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832834)

Such a distro would also be a great way of advertising the many Linux-based point-of-sale solutions available.

In fact, (before they lost their minds), our buddies at SCO were touting a Linux POS distribution that would run on similar equipment.

Re:Um... Suggestion... (2, Informative)

York the Mysterious (556824) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832921)

I don't think the problem is that these systems run Windows though that's certainly not helping the security situation. I believe the problem is more the secrecy these companies are taking as well and the inherent risk to the accuracy of the voting that comes with computerizing the process.

umm...ok (4, Insightful)

Savatte (111615) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832554)

can you really trust voting results/percentages of an e-voting firm that was hacked?

Re:umm...ok (4, Funny)

BuckaBooBob (635108) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832816)

Any Company on the internet Can be Hacked...

In Actuality MS could most likely come up with the Most Secure E-voting Software

Voting Atendant: "Sorry all of our E-voting computers are plauged with a Blaster Worm variant and will not work.. Please use the standard Manual Process.."

Where do you want to vote today?

Microsoft is responsible (really!) (3, Insightful)

the man with the pla (710711) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832562)

I'm not trying to troll here...but hear me out: People simply don't trust electronic voting...as a geek this makes me very sad, because voting is something that could and should be more automated.

Now, ask yourself, why is it that people don't trust comptuers?

Answer: Microsoft's abhorent trackrecord with regard to security has an awful lot to do with it. It's not the only factor, but it is *huge*.

All these windows bugs do effect us linux geeks: The perception of computers in general has suffered greatly.

--
Join Jihad against slashdot's editors. Join anti-slash [anti-slash.org]

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (4, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832615)

That may be why the uninformed are affraid (can you blame them?), but that's no reason to not trust e-voting.

E-voting is a reason not to trust e-voting. Slashdot just has story after story of how these big "trust us, our stuff is fair" e-voting companies have problem after problem after problem. Things are bad now, but imagine the kind of stuff that might come up if it was legislated that the 2004 Presidential Election had to be done on these systems. What happened in Florida (which was largly the fault of people who were too desperate to not loose to care about anything else, since the recounts and recounts didn't change anything) would look like a cakewalk compared to finding people who got to vote in 12 districts, those who's votes were counted 10,002 times, and the fact that anyone with a "A" or an "E" in their last name (BUT NOT BOTH) could only vote during odd numbered minutes of even numbered hours in districts that are prime numbers or some other rediculous things that at this rate seems it could easily turn up.

I'm all for MS bashing when they deserve it, and they may be the number one reason people don't trust e-voting (allbeit indirectly); but there are REAL reasons why people shouldn't trust it, and if it were to get reported more, then people still wouldn't trust the things, it would just be for the "right" reason.

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832868)

Someone that spells as horribly as you should be careful about drawing conclusions. Stick to dot-to-dot.

P.S. The recount showed Gore won.

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (2, Insightful)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832893)

I think what he was saying is that it's the *implementations* that are faulty, not the concept.

Perhaps the current incarnations are faulty because they involve insecure proprietary software made by inept, politically-motivated companies; but that doesn't mean that e-voting is inherently impossible to do correctly.

There's a real feeling among "regular people" that computers aren't to be trusted. It will only hurt OSS and proponents of universal computing when Microsoft capitalizes on this mistrust (that they helped create) by introducing "Trustworthy" computers that only run Windows.

The technologically informed must make it clear that the problems with e-voting (and secure computing in general) are not technical ones and will not be solved by blindly trusting faceless corporations or closed-source government voting booths.

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (2, Insightful)

swillden (191260) | more than 10 years ago | (#7833104)

The technologically informed must make it clear that the problems with e-voting (and secure computing in general) are not technical ones

Aren't they? Depends on your definitions, I suppose, but I would say the main problem *is* a technical one, and that it's intractable. The problem is that technology is inherently opaque, unless you have a great deal of specialized training, and even then you can never really be sure unless you're allowed to disassemble the device.

Sure, there are ways you can build systems that can be verified, and processes to verify them, but the costs are huge (I design and build secure systems for a living) and you'll *never* convince people as thoroughly as you will if you simply print a paper ballot that they can read and drop in a locked metal box.

If you're not trying to troll ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832653)

I'm not trying to troll here...
Then claiming allegiance to Anti-Slash is a funny way to back it up. I notice your post is first on Anti-Slash [anti-slash.org] begging for upward mods.

For those who aren't familiar with the Anti-Slash mandate, here's the extract from their FAQ [anti-slash.org] :

When not directly exposing the flaws of slashdot, jihadis strive to lower the singal to noise ratio in slashdot comments. This serves to turn the slashdot readership away to sites with better content. We host many tools to aid in the lower of S/N.

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (4, Insightful)

nlinecomputers (602059) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832707)

I'm not trying to troll here...but hear me out: People simply don't trust electronic voting...as a geek this makes me very sad, because voting is something that could and should be more automated.


Why should voting be more automated? The only reason ballot counters are used is to rig the election. Several contries around the world conduct elections with hand marked and hand counted ballots and do just fine. Automation just makes it that much easier to rig the vote. Voting SHOULD be difficult, hard to quickly count, and should envolve lots of people in the process. When one person or a small group gets to count the ballot or gets to build an automatic system to count the ballots it is far easier to bribe or threaten that small group and rig the election. Any kind of automatic system should be questioned, be it scantron systems, pull lever voting machines, or computers. It is all designed to hide the vote from the public NOT make voting safer. I don't trust computers not because I am ignorant of what they can do because I know exactly what they are able to do and how easy it would be to rig an election.

If it is not a paper ballot and the ballot isn't counted at the polling place in public view then you shouldn't trust that vote. Most places in the USA the ballots are not counted at the poll. They are hauled away to the court house and counted out of public view. No way to be certain that the ballot box is the same one that left the polling place and no way to have the public watch the counting. This is by design to aid in vote fraud. We haven't had a free election in most places in the country in years.

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (1)

man2525 (600111) | more than 10 years ago | (#7833017)

I don't trust computers not because I am ignorant of what they can do because I know exactly what they are able to do and how easy it would be to rig an election.

So do others. Diebold even employs a computer programmer who was jailed for falsifying computer records.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.ht ml [wired.com]

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (1)

b0nes (700040) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832734)

I'm not trying to troll here...but hear me out: People simply don't trust electronic voting...as a geek this makes me very sad, because voting is something that could and should be more automated.
Now, ask yourself, why is it that people don't trust comptuers?


now ask yourself, why is it that the vast majority of voters use computers, if at all, with distrust? check the voting records out. does your father/mother use a computer much? if so, how much do you help them with it? my point being, how well do they understand it? understanding=trust

Answer: Microsoft's abhorent trackrecord with regard to security has an awful lot to do with it. It's not the only factor, but it is *huge*.

FUD. the majority of users do not even understand when they have been compromised, much less why. otherwise, M$ patch system may have worked reasonably well.

All these windows bugs do effect us linux geeks: The perception of computers in general has suffered greatly.

ahhh, the nub of your argument - linux rules, all else must be shite, especially M$. with all due respect to your beliefs, this is a non-starter as an argument. honestly, if linux gets up there in terms of usage, do you seriously expect majority of the users to understand it anymore than windows? remember, DOS and windows x were once relatively low-distribution programs as well, promoted by enthusiatic geeks.

Trust (1)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832904)

I wouldn't trust any OS with voting. I don't care what OS. I've worked on far too many systems, and seen how easy it would be to tamper with any system.

Voting is one thing that should not be automated. Sometimes simpler (and manual) is better.

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832982)

I'm not trying to troll here...but hear me out: People simply don't trust electronic voting...as a geek this makes me very sad, because voting is something that could and should be more automated.

Oh, you're trolling.

Now, ask yourself, why is it that people don't trust comptuers?

They don't have the time to spend learning the operating system. It's that simple (and the reason why Linux is so less accepted right now...far too overly complex).

Answer: Microsoft's abhorent trackrecord with regard to security has an awful lot to do with it. It's not the only factor, but it is *huge*.

Of course it doesn't. People don't blame Microsoft for things like that. They blame the HACKERS.

All these windows bugs do effect us linux geeks: The perception of computers in general has suffered greatly.

Not because of any track record. Man, Slashdotters will turn ANYTHING into an anti-Microsoft post. This is about an e-voting firm!

Re:Microsoft is responsible (really!) (1)

obey13 (731453) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832987)

Whether or not Mircosoft is responisble for the publics mistrust of computers, an easy solution would simply to for the voting machine to make a print out as well as recording the voters choices. There would then be a double record of the vote(In case of any electronic problem), and the pice of paper would also make a mistrustful public less wary.

Vote on the internet (5, Funny)

soliaus (626912) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832571)

Astoundingly, the 'hot poll' associated with this story has (as this is being posted) 28% of respondents saying they would trust their vote on the internet and 41% saying 'not now, but maybe soon.' Feel free to cast your vote.

So what, your telling to vote on the internet to tell them that I dont want to vote on the internet? Quite astounding indeed...

I WANT TO STICK MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE (-1, Troll)

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Trust In E-Voting? (5, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832580)

Am I the only one who is ready to never trust e-voting ever again? I was a little worried before I knew anything about it. The more I learn, the more terrified I get. With everything that goes on in the computer world, e-voting is SCARRY.

Let's ignore hacking and break-ins. Those are too easy. Vendor bugs are bad enough. There have been bugs that cause automatic medicine dosers in hospitals to give out too much medice and almost (or completely) kill a paitent. I'll go vote for candidate Ham Sandwich, but how do I know some bug won't cause every vote for his oppoent, Mr. Mayor, to be counted 100 times? These things just seem to happen more and more.

So what WILL have me trust it? Let's set it up like a slot machine is set up. It has it's software burned into some ROM. It should be thouroughly tested by independant labs, the code should be available for me to look at, and I should be able to read the ROM chip after the elections are done so I know that it's got what it's supposed to on it (not that many people would do this, but it should be an option). When I'm done voting, it should print out a paper punch ballot that I can look at to see that it voted the way I told it to. The voting commisions can use the electronic results, but a random 5% of all districts every election should check the electronic counts against the paper ballots to make sure nothing weird is going on there. And most importantly of all (and like a slot machine), YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CHEAT. Shock it with 10,000,000 volts to make sure it doesn't mess up and let me vote twice. Punch it and kick it and do anything possible (and then some) to make sure it still functions correctly, just like a slot machine. Slot machines go through all that because they might be responsible for millions of dollars. My vote should be worth more than that, and there for should have TOUGHER standards behind it.

In short, I don't trust e-voting. The only way I'd LIKE to see e-voting is that you choose your candidates on the computer, then it prints out a punched ballot (with names and all, so I can see it did things right) that I turn in, and THAT'S my ballot; the machine is nothing more than a ballot punching tool and holds no results of it's own. I should be able to do it all by hand if I want. This is the only way I'd like to see e-voting, and the description above is the only way that I'll accept it.

Re:Trust In E-Voting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832652)

Theylve never let you print a ballot at home.

That would allow people to sell/buy votes. You could meet whoever was buying your vote outside the polls, show them your preprinted ballot, then take it in.

Although.. hrm.. I suppose you could print out one ballot matching what the vote buyer wanted, and print a second one and fold it up in your pocket. Thatd work, unless they trucked people in to vote, strip searched them before bringing them there, then provided them prepared 'ballots' to take in.

Re:Trust In E-Voting? (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832847)

I wasn't suggesting that, although I do like the idea of just sending an absentee ballot to every registered voter and forgetting polling places all together. There are some good resaons to do this (doens't clog up places like school which causes all sorts of problems, increases voter "turnout"), but also has it's problems (icreases voter "turnout", so more idiots who know nothing and would never vote would). I think there is somewhere in the US that does this, maybe Oregan?

Re:Trust In E-Voting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832992)

I think one of the major problems with mandatory absentee ballots would be people leaving it on their desk to do later and then forgetting about it until CNN announces who the next president is. Voting that way would seriously fuck over the procrastinators of this country. :)

Re:Trust In E-Voting? (2, Informative)

Barto (467793) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832684)

I don't have a problem as long as the program used is open source, and the program running on election day is verified to be that same program.

You can take steps to keep track of, record and back up electronic votes if something goes wrong. Remember, bad things can happen with paper voting too (eg vote counting buildings catching fire, flooding). There isn't that much difference with e-voting, PROVIDING you take equivalent digital precautions.

Here in Canberra, our voting machines run Linux, with GPLed e-voting software. Find the code at http://www.elections.act.gov.au/evacs.tar.gz

Barto

Re:Trust In E-Voting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832828)

Am I the only one who is ready to never trust e-voting ever again?

[Obligatory 2000 election whoring]

The real question: Am I the only one who is ready to never trust voting again?

[/Obligatory 2000 election whoring]

MIRROR IN CASE SLASHCOCK GETS SLASHDOTTED (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832583)

Your Rights Online: E-Voting Firm VoteHere Discloses October Break-In

Posted by timothy on Monday December 29, @10:11PM
from the what-are-the-28%-thinking-exactly dept.
linuxwrangler writes "In the ongoing saga of electronic voting 'security,' eVoting company VoteHere is the latest to reveal that they were the victim of a computer break-in. According to VoteHere founder, Jim Adler, the concern isn't about their source code which they plan to reveal 'eventually,' anyway, but is about the possible release of salary and other HR data. Astoundingly, the 'hot poll' associated with this story has (as this is being posted) 28% of respondents saying they would trust their vote on the internet and 41% saying 'not now, but maybe soon.' Feel free to cast your vote." Reader nSignIfikaNt points to the Assocated Press' article as carried by CNN.

( Read More... | 8 of 18 comments | yro.slashdot.org )
PCLinuxOS 2K4: Mandrake Meets The Live CD

Posted by timothy on Monday December 29, @08:59PM
from the and-it's-not-knoppix dept.
NoahsLinuxArk2K3 writes "For those of you who may not be familiar with PCLinuxOS, it's a Linux distro derived from Mandrake Linux 9.2, developed by none other than Texstar from PCLinuxOnline (best known for his RPM work for the same distro). The new distro is primarily a Live CD, but can also be installed to the hard drive. It is still in preview release, but at 306 hits per day, it's already #8 on the DistroWatch charts. This review is the first of its kind to surface and it is looking very promising." Update: 12/30 03:18 GMT by T: A semi-anonymous reader writes "For those who dont have a high speed connection, PCLinuxOS 2K4 Preview 4 is available from OSDisc.com for a few bucks." Probably soon it will be at cheapbytes, too.

( Read More... | 34 of 100 comments )
OnStar Considered Harmful

Posted by timothy on Monday December 29, @07:51PM
from the go-ahead-we're-listening dept.
Frisky070802 writes "A few weeks ago Slashdot ran an article on the privacy issues in EzPass. Some of the comments referred to other things Big Brother could do with GPS in cars, and now the New York Times has run a column on what else your car is saying about you (free registration req'd). From the article: 'Aviel D. Rubin, the technical director of the Information Security Institute at Johns Hopkins University, said that every new technology with the potential to invade privacy was introduced with pledges that it would be used responsibly. But over time, he said, the desire of law enforcement and business to use the data overtook the early promises. "The only way to get real privacy," he said, "is not to collect the information in the first place."'"

( Read More... | 123 of 181 comments )
The Expensive Hobby Of Kite Aerial Photography

Posted by timothy on Monday December 29, @06:45PM
from the where-do-you-get-6mp-for-cheap dept.
GoneGaryT writes "The BBC is running a cool article - strapping your digital camera to a kite and doing D.I.Y. aerial photography. Examples of suitable kites can be found here. Anyone want to try this from the top of an apartment building in London or NY? A pretty accessible pastime, so long as you can afford to lose the lot in a sudden gust!" High-res digital cameras have come down somewhat in price since the last time we mentioned this.

( Read More... | 63 of 111 comments )
10 Ads The US Won't See

Posted by Hemos on Monday December 29, @05:53PM
from the it-rots-your-brain-it-does dept.
prostoalex writes "Some ads made by world's leading advertising agencies for well-known brands will never be seen in the United States. The Gucci G-Spot turned out to be too risque, video for Drug-Free America was deemed too disgusting, Internet's favorite Honda "Cog" commercial won't air due to the high prices for a 2-minute spot, and Japanese commercials with American actors have contracts preventing the companies to run the same ads in the US. AdAge provides a link to the pictures and video (Windows Media .ASF format, alas) of the 10 best unaired commercials." I can get the ASFs working under VLC.

( Read More... | 218 of 312 comments )
Science: Mars Crater Theory Tries To Explain Missing Beagle

Posted by simoniker on Monday December 29, @05:00PM
from the put-face-on-mars'-eye-out dept.
JayBonci writes "CNN is running a piece regarding the failure of the Beagle Mars probe being possibly attributed to a crater landing. It's an interesting story about the variety of forensics being used to try and pick up on the lost craft."

( Read More... | 181 of 293 comments | science.slashdot.org )
Developers: Embedded Linux VPN Router Near Release

Posted by simoniker on Monday December 29, @04:11PM
from the embed-this dept.
An anonymous reader writes "A new open source project aims to build a VPN router that supports all major routing protocols on a standardized hardware platform running embedded Linux. The "Linux Router Project - LR101" started in mid-2003 and plans a first release in January 2004. It is based on a dual-NIC VIA EPIA mainboard and a Travla case, along with Red Hat 8, zebra, FreeS/WAN, IP-tables, an other open source software, all compiled from source."

( Read More... | 60 of 105 comments | developers.slashdot.org )
Israel's Finance Ministry To Distribute OpenOffice

Posted by simoniker on Monday December 29, @03:22PM
from the free-things-are-good-things dept.
dudeman2 writes "Israel National News reports that The Israel Finance Ministry said Sunday it will begin distributing Open Office for free as of next week. The ministry said that it would begin to distribute thousands of Open Office CD-ROMs at public computer centers and later on at community centers throughout the country, 'in a bid to reduce the technological gap between the rich and poor in Israel'."

( Read More... | 199 of 403 comments )
KDE 3.x Installation On Solaris Discussed

Posted by simoniker on Monday December 29, @02:30PM
from the mooninite-os-also-popular dept.
Jim Hall writes " A recent Sun-hosted article looks at installing and running KDE 3.x on Solaris Operating System (Solaris OS) -based workstations. Author Corey Liu tries to shy away from the debate over GNOME vs. KDE, and focuses on how KDE is installed on Sun workstations and the Solaris OS. Both GNOME and KDE are available at freeware Web sites for users of the Solaris OS. While Sun recently began to favor GNOME as the default desktop environment on the Solaris OS, some people still enjoy using KDE."

( Read More... | 72 of 150 comments )
Science: Old School Data Mining, Maritime Style?

Posted by simoniker on Monday December 29, @01:41PM
from the welcome-to-the-pirate-age dept.
jason0000042 writes "The BBC is reporting on Cliwoc, the Climatological Database for the World's Oceans, which pulls data about climate change from 18th and 19th Century sailing ships' logbooks. It's like a window in time that could help us better understand global climate change, if they can decipher the olde timey language of the 1750's. Personally, I can't wait to know if we're going to melt down, or alternatively, have an ice age."

( Read More... | 144 of 204 comments | science.slashdot.org )
Book Reviews: XForms Essentials

Posted by timothy on Monday December 29, @12:50PM
from the left-intentionally-blank dept.
mseaborne writes "So, why should anyone be interested enough in XForms to want to read XForms Essentials in the first place? Well, if you make your living sweating over hot JavaScript and HTML, fighting against technologies never really intended to help you write even fairly simple forms that require such mundane, work-a-day functionality as cross-field validation, data prepopulation, or even reliable data typing; then XForms may be for you. If there are forms you would love to deploy over the Web, but they are too many, or are too complex to even attempt with HTML 4, then for you too, XForms could be the answer." Mark is also an interested party in XForms' success and improvement; he says he "joined the XForms Working Group after all the hard work had already been done." His review continues below.

( Read More... | 6707 bytes in body | 69 of 119 comments | books.slashdot.org )
Ask Slashdot: Wireless APs in Homebrew Coffee Shops?

Posted by Cliff on Monday December 29, @12:05PM
from the instant-cybercybercafe:-just-add-water dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Having seen lots of complaints about the overpriced T-Mobile Wireless APs in Starbucks ($10/hr) got me thinking about setting up a wireless AP for the small, family-owned coffeeshop in my town under the tip jar model. I'm assuming ~$100 for the router, ~$500 for a PC to use to control quotas (to prevent over-zealous Kazaa users, block spammers and script kiddies and other would-be abusers) - but what software should I be using? Do enough people have 802.11a/g cards that it would be worth it to invest in that rather than an 802.11b router?" Has anyone considered making a Linux distribution for use by cybercafes, to handle wireless access and anything else such an outfit might need?

( Read More... | 498 bytes in body | 384 of 496 comments | ask.slashdot.org )
UK Approves of 5.8GHz For Rural Broadband

Posted by Hemos on Monday December 29, @11:02AM
from the making-best-use-of-the-air-waves dept.
Tandoori Haggis writes "BBC News reports a major decision by UK Government to approve the use of 5.8 GHz C-band for use with wireless broadband. A prime consideration is the desire to provide broadband access for rural areas where broadband cable might be prohibitively expensive to impliment. Previously there had been resistance to freeing up 5.8GHz because it is in an area of the RF spectrum used by C-band radars."

( Read More... | 68 of 106 comments )
NYT: 14 Media & Technology Convergence Trends

Posted by Hemos on Monday December 29, @10:15AM
from the where-are-we-going dept.
securitas writes "The New York Times Business/Media section looks at 14 media and technology industry convergence trends and ideas to watch in 2004 (Google link). Trends range from the stampede to flat-screen TV/display business, Japan's 3G mobile phone experiment, biometrics as a global ID system for security, identification and authentication, the impact of PVRs (personal video recorders), Internet advertising and paid search engine listings, the Google IPO and venture capital technology investment, what the movie studios call piracy but what is really copyright infringement, and many other trends and ideas. It will take you a while to read through all 14 pages, but it's definitely good food for thought. Which 2004 technology and media trends and ideas did the New York Times staff miss? Discuss."

( Read More... | 69 of 98 comments )
Toshiba Adds VoIP to PCs

Posted by Hemos on Monday December 29, @09:27AM
from the cutting-out-the-telcos dept.
securitas writes "PC World/ IDG reports on the new Toshiba SoftIPT SoftPhone software that turns Windows XP-based computers into VoIP telephones. The software features call answering and forwarding, voice mail retrieval and conference calling and costs $200. Now if only Toshiba managed to come up with a version of the software that runs on 802.11 WiFi handhelds like the e800/e805 ... More details in the press release."

( Read More... | 63 of 92 comments )
Tech Titans Prepare to Battle Over Next DVD Format

Posted by Hemos on Monday December 29, @08:46AM
from the battle-royale-over-billions dept.
securitas writes "The New York Times Technology has an excellent feature by Ken Belson about the coming battle over the next-generation DVD format that consumer electronics and technology giants are already preparing for. The article covers the (high-definition) HD DVD group, led by Toshiba and NEC, and the Blu-ray Group, led by Sony and Matsushita (Panasonic/JVC). Mass production is expected to begin in 2005, but both sides are expected to show prototypes and aggresively pursue partners at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas next week. Add to the mix a nine-company Chinese faction that says it will develop its own DVD format because - fearing their technology could be used by Chinese rivals - the Japanese manufacturers haven't shared much information, even within the DVD Forum. Finally, Disney, Microsoft, IBM and Intel have yet to weigh in. The worst thing that could happen would be another Betamax/VHS-type war. In that case, 'Everyone is a loser, particularly Hollywood studios, the retailer community and, most importantly, the consumer,' says Warren N. Lieberfarb, developer of the original DVD format."

( Read More... | 294 of 400 comments )
Science: Measuring Pollution In Humans

Posted by Hemos on Monday December 29, @07:59AM
from the you-come-out-to-3.5%-filthy dept.
CHaN_316 writes "Scientists have begun measuring pollutants in our body and the results sound like a chemical clean-up site. They've found things such as flame retardants, chemicals derived from DDTs, mercury, uranium, cotinine, and many more. The concern is a lot of this stuff is ending up in mother's milk. But hey, at least in the event of spontaneous combustion, I'll be partially protected."

( Read More... | 299 of 385 comments | science.slashdot.org )
Science: Linux-Based Robot To Explore The Forest

Posted by timothy on Monday December 29, @06:57AM
from the sasquatch-is-running-scared dept.
crashoverride025 contributes this link to a BBC story about Treebot, "A Linux-based mobile robot equipped with a webcam and sensors swings into action to help monitor forests." Despite the Tarzan reference, it looks like this robot moves along a cable, rather than swinging from place to place.

( Read More... | 52 of 79 comments | science.slashdot.org )
Free Software In Iran, KDE In Farsi

Posted by timothy on Monday December 29, @02:38AM
from the pretty-screenshots dept.
Elektroschock writes "KDE, the leading *nix desktop environment, is translated to Farsi (=Persian). Now native language KDE can be used in Iran as well. Farsi is written from left to right. Full story at Dot KDE. Arash Zeini (KDE Farsi) wrote an intresting article about FLOSS in Iran. His view: "It is not a secret anymore that FLOSS is gaining momentum all over the world. We witness an international move and acceptance of FLOSS in the private as well as in the public sector."" Update: 12/29 16:37 GMT by T: That should read "Farsi is written from right to left." (Thanks to Thomas Zander for pointing that out.)

( Read More... | 285 of 467 comments )

Eventually (5, Interesting)

BooRadley (3956) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832586)

The CEO of this company says he doesn't want to politicize the break-in. That's great. But to say they are going to eventually release the code to their app is not very useful to his cause, unless the code itself may be a source of embarrassment, and he's doing some sort of damage control.

Someone probably rooted their linux mail server with a cracked account, and took the code for their app in the process.

Anyone want to bet they are in violation of the GPL, and we might just see the code itself under posted to the net any day now?

Re:Eventually (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832683)

You kidding? If a Linux server got rooted, the press would be all over that--Linux security hole jeopardizes democracy.

~~~

Re:Eventually (1)

inode_buddha (576844) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832690)

Ummm, IIRC the CNN article mentioned that something similar happened at Diebold. Yes, damage control happens. (Shit happens...) How much does anyone here want to bet that the same individual/organization is responsible? I'm not normally *that* paranoid, but 2x the same type of event is more than coincidence in my book. Especially when it comes to the types interested in tipping national/global power. Comments, anyone?

Not only NO, but HELL NO! E-Voting sucks. (0, Troll)

politicalman (692933) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832604)

Internet voting is a very bad idea.
People have died (are dying) for this right.
To have it taken away by a successful technocrat is unacceptable.
Real paper ballots that need to be counted and can be stored
(and found in some deceitful persons trunk)
are much better than the arguments that will emerge after every single election
when even a hint of hacking (cracking) has appeared.

Poll? What poll? Vote? What vote? (4, Insightful)

shanen (462549) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832610)

The poll has apparently been closed already. Not sure what to make of that, but perhaps yet another political slant. At least CNN isn't as imbalanced as Faux News.

Anyway, on the substantive issue of reliable voting, computer security is NOT a done deal. This networking stuff is great in many ways, but there's a big problem when everything is connected together. You hack into one part of the system, and you've exposed various other parts to attack. The old idea was to make a secure perimeter with firewalls and DMZs and so forth, and you could keep something safe inside, but that's called the "eggshell model" now--turns out to be relatively easy to breech and you still need strong security for EVERY machine with ANY sensitive information on it. Someone in the office took his notebook computer home for the weekend, and you can never tell what Trojan backdoor is inside your network now.

Of course, the BIG threat here is abuse of power. No one needs to be protected from weakness, but powerful people often want MORE. Not an independent event--that greed is usually part of how they got there in the first place. Consider the recent example of Arnold in California and the selection in Florida in 2000...

If our votes are to have ANY meaning, they must be protected, and it is very clear that some people will play ANY game that will win more power. Voting machines as secret slot machines? Would you trust Las Vegas THAT much?

Simple. Print the ballots. Let the voters LOOK at what the ballot says, and save it. It's convenient that the machine can also report the results quickly--but NOT convenient that any computer can be hacked.

TrollKore (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832617)

props to TrollKore. I am thoroughly enjoying their work on this shitty site. If you don't like TK then you're a faggot.

TRoLL.

Salary data! (3, Funny)

magarity (164372) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832624)

the concern ... is about the possible release of salary and other HR data.

Mobilize the national defence! The management salary figures have been compromised!
What, vote tampering? So?

Slash editors (0, Offtopic)

BigDumbAnimal (532071) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832631)

What is Timothy thinking with linking 2 article to a common slahdot story?
How can the other editors post a dupe?
What has happened to slashdot!

Where will the dupes we all depend on come from now?

You know the vote was hacked .. (3, Funny)

cfuse (657523) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832657)

When Natalie Portman of the hot grits party is elected.

Re:You know the vote was hacked .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832699)

I'll be more suspicious when President Neal occupies the Oval Office.

~~~

Whoa--the spin! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832668)

The same individual may be tied to the theft in March of internal documents from Diebold Election Systems of Canton, Ohio.

"I have no problem debating the merits of electronic voting with anyone, but breaking and entering is not an appropriate forum for technology debate," Adler said.

They're trying to paint the opponents of black box voting as electronic terrorists. Transparent to us, but it'll work on the sheeple.

~~~

EFF.org petition for electronic voting standards (5, Informative)

USAPatriot (730422) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832672)

The EFF is organizing a petition to encourage IEEE to set trustworthy standards for electronic voting. Read about it and join the petition here:

http://www.eff.org/Activism/E-voting/IEEE/ [eff.org]

"EFF supports the IEEE in taking on the issue of setting standards for electronic voting machines. We also support the idea of modernizing our election processes using digital technology, as long as we maintain, or better yet, increase the trustworthiness of the election processes along the way. But this standard does not do this, and it must be reworked."

Re:EFF.org petition for electronic voting standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832857)

Brought to you by the makers of WEP [slashdot.org] and WPA [esecurityplanet.com] ...

Re:EFF.org petition for electronic voting standard (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832954)



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My Submission Was Better (5, Funny)

tealover (187148) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832676)

I questioned whether it was Alanis Morrisette-like irony or real irony that a company charged with securing internet voting had their servers hacked and also alluded to the possibility that the 2004 presidential election will make us all remiss for the stability of the 2000 elections.

It was actually one of my better submissions. It was funny and yet pithy. It had pith. Real pith.

...

But this submission is ok, I guess...

So what's new? (5, Funny)

dejinshathe (736132) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832682)

From the little I hear about US elections (and let's face it that's gonna be all the cock-ups & bad press) I wasn't aware that people a) voted much, or b) had much faith that the votes were fairly counted and apportioned anyway...

Then again, perhaps I need to find an alternative to Michael Moore as my sole window into US POlitics.

Am I missing something here? (4, Interesting)

Maclir (33773) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832691)

Why the love affair with "technology assisted" voting? What is wrong with the good old paper "secret ballot" that is counted by hand. Canada can do it. Australia can do it (and actually invented the "secret ballot").

No chance of dodgy software. No hanging chads. Automatic audit trail. Either number the candidates in your order of preference (automatic runoff style / preferential) or simple tick the person you prefer (or hate the least).

Probably (4, Insightful)

anti-NAT (709310) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832750)

The only valid reason I've heard of for e-voting is to purely speed up the counting of the votes, so that the result of the election can be known much quicker than via hand counting.

Commonly people seem to assume that this means replacing paper votes, or rather, more specifically, replacing an auditable paper trail.

So we have a additional-efficiency model verses a replacement model.

For some reason, the model that has been adopted (and maybe encouraged by the "US" governement aka GWB) by these E-voting companies is the replacement one. Who knows why, although the conspiracy theorists would suggest Florida 200(? - I'm Australian, don't know exactly when the last US election was).

Of course, as all slashdotters know, under the replacement, electronic only model, security and accountability are a lot harder to do. All these e-voting security stories, such as this one, are evidence of that.

Re:Am I missing something here? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832762)

Where's the money to be made in paper ballot voting?

Re:Am I missing something here? (1)

dejinshathe (736132) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832798)

Oh, there's no money in it.

All you get is the government you voted for. Or so goes the theory, anyway...

people will sue (1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832912)

Because someone who can't read or doesn't have arms will sue them under the national disability law. Now you can sue anyone for almost anything and win.

How can we trust this company? (4, Insightful)

sllim (95682) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832694)

Securing HR data and salaries is basic, basic stuff. I would have some sympathy if Joe Schmoes Pizza barn had there salary and HR data compromised, after all they make pizzas, IT is way down the line for these people.

But lets face it, if you want to manufacture eVoting technology then securing the network is a crucuial part of that technology.

If THEY can't secure there own HR and payroll data then how am I supposed to trust them to handle evoting competently?

Nice (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832711)

If Bush is reelected next year with this technology, he'll be happy to announce that he won with 194% of the votes.

An Even Bigger Issue (0, Flamebait)

tealover (187148) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832717)

Aren't many of the companies in the e-voting business heavily funded and/or backed by Republican interests?

Republicans in the U.S. will basically do anything to preserve power. Let's not forget that Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State charged with making sure the Florida election process was fair was the Florida co-Chairperson of the Bush Electtion team.

She swears she put the interests of the voters ahead of Bush's. She is now a congressperson contemplating running for Senator (thanks Jeb!)

Also, a cousin of Bush's, working at Fox News and head of the projection team charged with calling the states callled George Bush Jr. 5 times the evening of the election.

He swears he didn't give Bush any information. That wouldn't have been "Fair and Balanced", would it?

<hides from Fox legal>

Re:An Even Bigger Issue (1)

Alan Hicks (660661) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832842)

Aren't many of the companies in the e-voting business heavily funded and/or backed by Republican interests? Republicans in the U.S. will basically do anything to preserve power.

Oh please. Yes many of them are funded/backed/owned/whatever by Republicans. What difference does this make? Your paranoia may be well founded, but so far there has not been a shred of evidence that any illegal tampering with the voting system has been done specifically to give one party or another an advantage. I won't say it hasn't happened, but neither will I go around spouting off conspiracy theories without a shred of non-circumstantial evidence.

She swears she put the interests of the voters ahead of Bush's.

Again, can you prove otherwise? Do you have any non-circumstantial evidence, or are you simply assuming some one did something illegal because it was convienient?

For the record I am not a Republican, though as a conservative I typically vote that way. What you are doing, it quite simply spreading FUD. Fear that crooked republicans are fixing elections. Uncertainty that they can be trusted. Doubt that they should ever be elected. You have not offered any proof to support your claims.

Darl, is that you?"

In four years... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832722)

...they'll ask:

"Hey, did you vote for Arnold this time?"

"Yeah, man. Six times!"

So, how is this worse than non-electronic voting? (5, Interesting)

Justice8096 (673052) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832793)

About fifteen years ago, when last I checked, there were many dead people voting in Philadelphia - however, it was found that roughly as many dead people voted Democrat as Republican, so neither party bothered to invalidate the vote.
It is also only within the last few decades that states have inacted laws to keep campaigners away from voting booths where they could "help" people choose whom to vote for.
Voting in the United States has long been wrought with fraud and inaccuracies, and as long as that fraud is equal on both sides, the system has worked.
Now, if there were more than two viable parties, then it might be a problem. But since there aren't, I will consider my vote as secure electronically as it is non-electronically.

Why are businesses being trusted? (2, Interesting)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832810)

Isn't it painfully obvious that any for profit company will be wide open to corruption when stakes this high are involved? Even in the absense of corruption the drive to keep costs down and profits up means tons of security gliches like this. After all, all too often by the time $hit hits the fan the boys in charge have already deployed their golden parachutes.

Why does everyone assume a private business has to or should be involved anyways? I'm not saying kicking private interests out would solve all the problems, but it would certainly help.

That said, until people stop voting based on what TV tells them to this is all moot. I know ardent supporters of George Bush who depend on government programs he's actively trying to eliminate. People don't vote rationally, and I don't see any reason why they're going to start.

details of intrusion? (1)

iescope (206575) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832832)

is there any? e-voting aside, it'd be nice to know how it was done for the rest of us interested in securing our networks.

Real problem with iVoting. (3, Interesting)

wirelessbuzzers (552513) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832836)

The real problem with internet voting is not that people could hack it. That is an important concern (more that someone could hack voters' PCs, rather than the vote talliers), but it is not the most important. Vendor hacks/bugs could be circumvented by open source. Supervision wouldn't be much harder than it is with current voting systems.

There are a couple more important concerns. One is social engineering... most people have no intuition for computers, and this opens up an avenue of attack much worse than the whole Florida butterfly ballot scandal. Second, the possibilities of coercion, blackmail, bribery etc go WAY up if you can watch someone, or grab server logs, or use a remote desktop, or the like.

Who is winning the FP war? (-1, Troll)

Luke727 (547923) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832850)

TrollKore is much more artistic, but the GNAA is always right in your face. It's kind of like the Chinese vs the Blacks. AND THE WHITES ARE CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE! HELP ME!

Bob Costas speaks (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832867)

Trollkore has the GNAA bent over the sink and is preparing to deliver the coup de grace. I don't know how much longer the contest has to go but there's basicaly no chance of the GNAA catching up at this stage.

slashdot confirms it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7832991)

GNAA is dying. No big loss there.

My take on this: unconvincing -- and listen up.. (5, Interesting)

BevHarris (700957) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832873)

Obviously, that a company which specializes in encryption gets hacked is rather idiotic. If that's true, they need to step out of the arena for good, because the product they were offering was encryption to "protect" our votes.

Now, what many of you might not know is that the VoteHere source code has been used in entrapment attempts. Specifically, with me, and I documented the entrapment effort at the time. Pure retaliatory crap designed to find a way to get activists to shut up.

Next, it is not surprising they will try to link it to the Diebold files. But that's bullshit, too, and here's why:

The FTP site wasn't hacked, it was sitting there. Look in any user manual and you'll see the address.

The memos weren't hacked either, they were obtained with an employee ID number.

Now, are you ready for this? I've had dealings with both the Diebold memo leaker and this supposed "VoteHere" hacker. The second person is NOT the same as the first, and I find it extremely interesting that VoteHere is trying to claim it's the same person. I am dead-certain it's not.

This "VoteHere" hacker tried to dump the VoteHere source code on me; it was simply dumb; first of all, VoteHere was supposed to be going public with its source code, so who in their right mind would want to steal it. I certainly didn't want to touch it.

Then this "VoteHere" hacker agreed to a telephone interview with me. He made some claims about who he was, but was unaware that I had additional information from inside sources that would allow me to test the veracity of his claims. The first question I asked was a test question; he put me on "hold" and then came back and offered a lame-ass guess which immediately caused him to fail the ID contest.

I believe this is going to turn into an entrapment scheme. Some activist somewhere is going to get nailed, probably that's already in the works. That's because they were running around offering this honey pot and, unfortunately, some naive activist probably bit on it.

By the way, I asked the supposed "hacker" point blank how hard it was to hack into a company that specializes in encryption. Every time I asked a tough question, he had to put me on hold and go ask someone what to say. His answer was totally unconvincing.

The voice on the phone was quite distinctive, and matches another voice I've heard on the phone. I will be only too delighted to share what I know with the authorities. Just hope I get an honest cop.

The timing on this is very interesting. The chairman of VoteHere, Ralph Munro, is former Washington State Secretary of State and a few things are starting to pop in relation to the use of unauthorized voting software under his watch, and an ethics complaint that's being filed, or has been filed.

I'll be on the Mike Webb Show at 11 p.m. tonight (Pacific time) and will discuss this at more length.

Bev Harris
Black Box Voting

Re:My take on this: unconvincing -- and listen up. (2, Informative)

shanen (462549) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832977)

Bev Harris is one of the leading activists on this issue, and has written extensively on it in various forums. I don't think she's technically that strong, and I was quite surprised to see her name here on SlashDot, but she knows a lot on this issue. Didn't know to include a link to her well-known Web site. I think this is the correct URL: http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

Someone should mod her comments up even higher.

Hold would-be vendors feet to the fire. (3, Interesting)

abulafia (7826) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832885)

A simple method, when sourcing products that are difficult to verify, is to demand a contract that is extremely punitive in the event of failure. This works well when combined with random auditing.

So, in this case, if for some (non-apparent, to me, at least) reason we really, really need paperless voting, the proper framework would look (as an extremely naive first pass) like this -

Potential vendors are made aware that some unknown number of elections, districts, machines, and people would be audited via unknown means.

Potential vendors would be forced to put up a large bond that would be forfeit if a flaw was found that compromised the voting record. (Yes, I mean the whole record - these are infallible counting machines, right? Operator error would be a contractual issue to hash out.)

Any dispute between government purchasers and vendors would be decided via arbitration in full and complete view of the public which is employing the machines, no exceptions.

Anyone who wished to vend would be welcome to.

I will bet you there will be takers. I know I'd be excited to at least have a shot at this.

The reliability of internet polls? Ha! (3, Interesting)

geoswan (316494) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832901)

This is laughable.

If you think internet voting is unreliable, you really shouldn't trust internet polling. There is no authentication to make sure the poll isn't being spoofed.

Some years ago the provincial government here in Ontario decided to force the six municipalities that made up Metropolitan Toronto to amalgamate. The municipalities decided to hold a referendum. An widely publicized internet poll was conducted predicting that the public would vote strongly in favour of amalgamation. When the referendum was held, the public voted 4 to 1 against amalgamation.

I can't remember exactly how wildly off the poll favoured amalgamation. I think it was something like 2:1. So, the poll was off by a factor of 8. Wildly off.

Honestly (3, Interesting)

iamdrscience (541136) | more than 10 years ago | (#7832993)

Honestly, as much as I'm concerned by this and "e-voting" in general, I'm really glad that they're willing to say that they were broken into. Furthermore, it's good that they were planning on disclosing the source code, even if they never really put forth a definite date.

E-voting has a lot of problems and the way it's being executed has just as many, but this is definitely a step in the right direction when compared to the problems of Diebold.

A Good Use For The Internet (3, Insightful)

Dark Bard (627623) | more than 10 years ago | (#7833038)

Where the internet would be useful is in making registration and obtaining absentee ballets easier. I work a lot of hours, as do most of us, and find registration a pain. It's rediculous to have to register months before an election. I was buried in work and found out late at night it was the last day to register for the last Presidential election. If we could register on-line and obtain ballets it would definately make things more accessable. Verifying identification is an issue but most aren't checked for ID as it is and none of those are verified. As far as electronic voting, I'm against National ID cards but most of us have drivers licenses with magnetic strips. An ATM system that uses those as verification could improve security. The system would only use the drivers license to access an electronic form. It would record that the individual voted but not which form was used. Any system can be hacked. The only way to largely avoid that is to network the voting machines at each location by firewire. An electronic count could be sent but would have to be verified by a verbal number given over the phone by some one at the polling location. A print out of totals could act as a third verification. It doesn't prevent tampering before the fact though. One possible way to avoid pretampering would be to have name order assigned on the day with more than one person required as in nuclear sites. Any pretampering would not know which name was being represented by any given code number. No system is foolproof but there is a fair amount of tampering already. Can you say Florida?

Bad Karma (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7833054)

Has there ever been a story on Slashdot that is positive towards electronic voting? It seems that everyone that's making an effort is always treated negatively on Slashdot

If it's so important to the /. community then where are the stories about the open source/other/better efforts? (Are there any?)

So much for another vendor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7833068)

So a company that can't secure its own corporate network is charged with creating a secure means of people to vote in elections?

Next thing you know, they'll get someone like Paula Abdul to be a judge of other people's singing talent.

Oh, wait.

Not trying to troll, but... (1, Insightful)

Loki_1929 (550940) | more than 10 years ago | (#7833088)

Seriously, folks; trusting an internet vote to determine new leaders for the world's most powerful nation?

27% Yes

40% Not now, but maybe soon

Fucking idiots. That's about all I can really say in response to this. I'm just too disgusted for words.

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