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Depenguinator "Upgrades" Linux to BSD

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the now-thats-just-creapy dept.

Upgrades 616

cperciva writes "Many systems around the world have been possessed by penguins and dead rats. It would be nice to exorcize these evil spirits, but this can be difficult without physical access to the machines in question. Thanks to a new depenguinator, it is now possible to upgrade Linux systems to run FreeBSD 5.x without requiring anything more than an SSH connection." Clever idea.

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This one goes out to all my dead homies (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834251)

have a nice GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Love Always,
News For Turds

How can I upgrade to Windows ME? (-1, Troll)

slash-tard (689130) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834252)

and whats SSH?

Re:How can I upgrade to Windows ME? (-1, Offtopic)

Zero_K (606548) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834260)

And again I miss fp by a matter of seconds...likc the teenage male who tends to pre ejaculate I stand here wondering...why me?

You have been rooted, welcome to BSD (5, Funny)

diersing (679767) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834255)

I'm now scared.

The next root kit is announced and within days all machines have been *upgraded* to BSD. Argh

Re:You have been rooted, welcome to BSD (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834324)

Hey, at least we know they won't be rooted again. "Linux security" is one of the funniest oxymorons I've heard.

Re:You have been rooted, welcome to BSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834358)

Almost as good as "FreeBSD hardware support" or "Useful BSD desktop"

Re:You have been rooted, welcome to BSD (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834395)

The only thing worse than linux zealots is linux zealots AND bsd zealots.

iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --syn --dport 22 -j DROP (2, Funny)

JCCyC (179760) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834365)

PHTHBBBBBTTTTT!!!!!

Re:You have been rooted, welcome to SCO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834443)

Darl ("Where's my $699?") McBride should use that $50M from the Canopy Group and pay someone so he can do this with OpenServer.

The Fed will then have to open an office dealing not with 419 scams, but 699 ones.

Re:You have been rooted, welcome to BSD (5, Funny)

skaffen42 (579313) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834515)

I think we finally have proof that BSD is dead. I mean, this is the clearest attempt at daemonic possession I have ever seen.

Hmm... (4, Insightful)

RobKow (1787) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834256)

How do you moderate an entire article as flamebait? ;)

Cool stuff, but the write-up is a little, uhm, polarizing?

Re:Hmm... (3, Insightful)

the uNF cola (657200) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834268)

Yup. No different from the linux polarized messages we see from time to time. Nothign to see here.. just some people proud of their work :)

Re:Hmm... (3, Insightful)

technoid_ (136914) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834277)

Just think, if it was about "upgrading" windows boxes to Linux it would not be considered flamebait. It would be applauded by the slashdot sheep.

Gee, could it be that we have some double standards...naah, couldn't be that....

technoid

Re:Hmm... (1, Interesting)

codepunk (167897) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834315)

The download would be to large, 10000 patches plus the service packs plus windows. After a 6 day download all you would be left with is a useless baseline os that can do nothing but catch worms and virus. So to make this cool new OS do something you pull out the ole checkbook and stroke a large one to ole bill.

Re:Hmm... (2, Insightful)

Tim C (15259) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834453)

All of that, to upgrade a machine from Windows to Linux?

Still, perhaps you actually meant it that way round - while I've never had a virus or worm on my Linux boxes, I've never had one on my Windows boxes, either.

Re:Hmm... (4, Funny)

sempf (214908) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834278)


Could be worse, we could be talking about a package to upgrade Linux to Windows 2003.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834349)

Could be worse, we could be talking about a package to upgrade Linux to Windows 2003.

Upgrade?

Re:Hmm... (3, Funny)

richie2000 (159732) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834383)

upgrade Linux to Windows 2003.

You are upside-down - up has become down and down is up. Please turn yourself over.

I myself have upgraded twice, first from Win2000 Server to Red Hat 8 and then to Gentoo.

I WANT TO STICK MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834288)

I want to stick my pee pee in your poo poo hole

Depenguinate ?? (2, Funny)

KoolDude (614134) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834377)


How do you moderate an entire article as flamebait?

May be you can write a program to flamebaitrate the article. Nobody said only people who freebsduse can verbgenerate, rite ?

I'm gonna sit back at a safe distance (5, Funny)

CompWerks (684874) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834263)

and watch this flame war. Marshmallows anyone?

Re:I'm gonna sit back at a safe distance (-1, Offtopic)

rbolkey (74093) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834418)

Thank you. Fig Newton?

When I do this, (1)

Krapangor (533950) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834264)

will this make me a necromant ?

pateNTdead eyecon0meter kode self-updating? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834266)

that's right. this stuff is unbreakable, & wwworks on several (more than 3) dimensions.

morons build vessel that floats on any suBStance? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, @02:53PM (#7829639)
you can bet your .asp on that won?

creators/humankind converge to repel unprecedented evile? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, @02:51PM (#7829610)

& why not? what other options are there for us?

eyecon0meter: survival most sought after feature? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, @02:48PM (#7829586)

creators' badtoll over corepirate nazi execrable (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, @02:46PM (#7829567)
disposal?

newclear power dissed/cussed? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, @02:41PM (#7829536)

newclear powered blips explore corepirate nazi (Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 29, @07:53AM (#7826913)
cesspool?

pheWWW.

lookout bullow. the daze of the phonIE payper liesense ?pr? ?firm? hypenosys stock markup FraUD softwar gangster execrable, is WANing into coolapps/the abyss, at the increasing speed of right.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators.... get ready to brighten up?

mynuts won: solar(is) power included?

Now all we need is.. (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834267)

.. a worm to upgrade all windows boxes to linux remotely :D

Dummy! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834442)

Linux is viral (due the the GPL) you're the worm! ;)

Re:Now all we need is.. (2, Funny)

Mark J Tilford (186) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834465)

What, don't you remember Tuxissa?

Similar tool for Debian (5, Interesting)

tuxzone (64722) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834270)

Looks like a great tool. Unfortunality for the daemons, I want to replace my dead rat (7.2) with a Debian branded penguin. I would love to do that upgrade online. Any tips or tools?
Thanks!

Re:Similar tool for Debian (2, Informative)

CaptainBaz (621098) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834323)

you need debootstrap. now is not the best time to be looking for the rpm, as people.debian.org is still down after the brk() attack, but the relevant section of the install docs is here [debian.org] .

Re:Similar tool for Debian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834498)

people.debian.org is still down after the brk() attack

Quick, I want to run the system built by this people.. Where do I sign up?

Re:Similar tool for Debian (5, Informative)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834330)

Use debootstrap. It will create a minimal install in any folder. Then chroot, and there you go, a small Debian system. Using that, you can either install Debian on another partition while running another distribution, or I suppose you also could replace your current install with Debian by booting into single user mode, and replacing your old system with Debian.

While you should be able to simply chroot into your new system and start adding stuff, I'd be a very good idea to boot it first. Debian will need to run some scripts on boot to finish configuring itself.

I'd go with the first option. The second one is too easy to screw up if you don't know what you're doing.

Re:Similar tool for Debian (2, Informative)

Killeri (238792) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834337)

I would guess the easiest way to do this is to get a Knoppix CD image, unpack it to disk and then boot from it, just like the source article describes.

Re:Similar tool for Debian (1)

vasah20 (530238) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834389)

I did this when switching from MDK 8 to Debian.

I've heard nightmares about configuring X in Debian, so I went the Knoppix route and have never been happier.

Re:Similar tool for Debian (2, Interesting)

heikkile (111814) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834345)

I have once installed Debian over ssh, after I got the owner of the box to boot Knoppix. I guess DeadRat might work as well - except that you need to be careful not to mess with the partition(s) where the system is living. The Knoppix CD contained Debian's install software, and Debians website had a guide (somewhere - lost the link ) on how to a very manual install. I had to do all the disk partitioning etc from the command line, but that should not scare a slashdot reader...

Re:Similar tool for Debian (4, Informative)

Marsala (4168) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834457)

Well, I don't know of a tool, but how about HOWTO [sourceforge.net] ?

Have a good one. :)

I always knew those daemons were trouble... (2)

Nate B. (2907) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834275)

They're lurking in a nice Linux system just waiting for the moment to come alive and do their dirty work.

Perhaps we penguinistas need to perfect a means of exorcising our systems of these evil daemons! Pure Linux, I say, pure Linux!

Re:I always knew those daemons were trouble... (1)

jhigh (657789) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834478)

It's time to go to the mattresses. Let's make those daemons an offer they can't refuse.

next remote ssh exploit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834276)

Oh Great... Does this mean we'll see Linux boxes being turned into FreeBSD boxes when next remote ssh exploit is discovered?

Having Used the latest FreeBSD (5.2(r2)) (1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834284)

Having used the latest FreeBSD which I say is probably more together as a group than the NetBSD (Which I've also used) I'm not impressed.

the *BSD's just don't have the polish of a Linux especially not the speed with the advent of the 2.6 kernel.

Sorry, for certain, specialized server stuff I've no problem recommending *BSD, for a workstation, I take Linux and don't look back

Re:Having Used the latest FreeBSD (5.2(r2)) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834517)

Some child modded you down for stating an opinion.. Go slashdot moderation system!

-1 Troll (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834286)

This post is a troll. Like the GNOME announcement.

Divide and conquer. Working for the evil coproration. Feed the trolls.

The Exorcist (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834287)

I give it a couple days, at most, before someone does the same thing to install Linux. ...and since THAT one would remove the little red "demons".....

Flame war! (2, Funny)

GeckoFood (585211) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834290)

Oooooh! Fire! Pretty!

*BSD SURE KNOWS A LOT ABOUT "ZOMBIE" PROCESSES CUZ (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834296)

It is official; Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dbblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Depenguinator? (1, Funny)

Channard (693317) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834297)

Found next to the Bat Anti-Shark pills in Batman's utility belt, maybe? Still no reaction to the news from Mr Flibble, though

Re:Depenguinator? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834470)

That's anti-shark SPRAY numnuts

Wow... a Linux bashing article on SlashDot! (4, Funny)

tommck (69750) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834303)

This is going to go over like a pregnant nun!

Re:Wow... a Linux bashing article on SlashDot! (0, Funny)

Doomrat (615771) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834388)

But in true petty zealous geek style, the word upgrade is between double quotes. You can just picture a fat, snotty nerd making the quote signs with his fingers as he says the word.

Re:Wow... a Linux bashing article on SlashDot! (1)

tommck (69750) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834452)

Yeah... I remember one time a guy told me that "uber geeks use BSD". I bet he felt so cool that he didn't use what the other geeks used :-)

I think I might have just crossed the flamebait line, but so be it.

immaculate (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834494)

If nuns didnt get pregnant, how would they breed?

pff, old stuff (4, Interesting)

sweede (563231) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834304)

This isnt new, I changed 3 of my dedicated servers (2 debian 1 redhat) to Gentoo using a doc thats almost 2 years old that was based of a "how to remote install BSD"

you can do this with any system that lets you bootstrap the OS from the harddrive (i.e. gentoos stage tarballs).

Re:pff, old stuff (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834415)

Was the doc two years old before after you started installing Gentoo ;)

Just kidding, love the stuff.

Instant system trash (5, Insightful)

Fizzl (209397) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834310)

So, it writes a bootloader, ramdisk loader scripts and a bare bones BSD image to the beginning of your disk, trashing the partitioning (not sure about the last bit. That's the impression I got).

Effective, yet mischievously evil.

Well. Uhoh.. I don't know what to think about this. I mean, it's kinda neat. It's called depenguinator to make clear it's going to get rid of your linux, butbut...
I still think the way of operation is very crude and evil.

It says:
This code is beta-quality at best. Do not use this unless you know what you're doing.


I'd personally go as far as saying:
Do not use this unless you are reallyreallyabsolutely sure you want to permanently destroy your current system.

Re:Instant system trash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834445)

  1. I'd personally go as far as saying:

    Do not use this unless you are reallyreallyabsolutely sure you want to permanently destroy your current system.

Erm...backups anyone?

Re:Instant system trash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834449)

Yeah, seems like a bad idea to me too. I once did this to a box that was running Debian and upgraded to linux from scratch. This is a VERY blind technique. So, if FreeBSD won't boot on that box without further configuring, you've got a dead box until someone local can reboot it again to linux. You've gone from having a working OS to not having a working OS. Also, this is nothing new. All it basically does is have ssh at install time so you can install via ssh.

Re:Instant system trash (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834466)

-1, Obvious

Windows - Freenix (5, Interesting)

aking137 (266199) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834317)

I've often wondered if this could be done with Windows - if one could make a (perhaps large) Windows executable that, when you double click on it, assimilates your system and turns it into a Linux box. (Which could in turn provide the depenguinators with lots more machines to work on.)

Win9x should be more straight forward - you can boot a linux kernel directly from a real DOS prompt using loadlin (although this may not be necessary), and it's possible to have the whole root filesystem stored in one file on a FAT32 filesystem, so the .exe could create the root filesystem (maybe something like a base debian or gentoo install), put everything in place, change how the machine boots, and restart.

Superb! (0)

Pseudonym (62607) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834413)

Not only do we now have the Linux vs BSD flamefest, you've managed to work Windows into it as well! You, sir or madam, have my admiration. Well done!

Pass out the marshmallows. It's going to be a fiery one.

Re:Windows - Freenix (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834436)

I've often wondered if this could be done with Windows

Most, if not all, distributions have something like that. Suse, for example, can be easily installed next to or over Windows with just a floppy or bootable CD. In my opinion this is even easier then first downloading to Windows and do the instalation from there.

That way you do not need the loadlin, a dosprompt or FAT32 (PSome machines do not HAVE FAT32 anymore).

One could write something to atomate the writing of the CD or the floppy and that is about it.

Night Of The living Dead (2, Funny)

fafaforza (248976) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834319)


The dead are going after the living!

Do not use this unless you know what you're doing (3, Insightful)

e_AltF4 (247712) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834321)

>5. Make sure that the first 40MB of space on your hard drive is not being actively used. ...
I'm afraid that is NOT a trivial thing in 99.9% of all machines

Re:Do not use this unless you know what you're doi (4, Interesting)

sparkes (125299) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834403)

"upgrading" from one OS to another is never trivial.

I would think that on most i386 systems running linux the first 40mb or so is /boot or swap.

Swap is a simple case of swapoff then setting it up again in the freebsd setup (perhaps using the old /boot?)

and /boot is going bye bye anyway.

As a confirmed debian user (running it across multiple platforms) I wouldn't use this anyway and would suggest any user looking for a clean upgrade to a BSD from GNU/Linux would be better off backing up /home and other stuff that you want to survive the upgrade (/var/www perhaps) and nuking the whole thing using OpenBSD. If you are 'upgrading' from GNU/Linux to a BSD at least make it the safest variant ;-)

Re:Do not use this unless you know what you're doi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834416)

Actually it isn't difficult in most cases. Your /boot partition should be at the beginning of the disk, and will typically be more than 40 MB. It is also typically never used or accessed once the system is booted. This is usually at the beginning of the disk because some BIOSes and boot loaders still have problems with booting the kernel from a place on the disk that is beyond the first 1024 cylinders. This makes it dangerous to merge / and /boot partitions and just use root.

That is usually followed by a sizeable swap partition, which is also bigger than 40 MB. This is because the beginning of the disk is usually faster than the end (more sectors on the outer tracks).

So, actually, it is nowhere nearly as difficult to ensure as you are suggesting. It would certainly work on just about every RH install (including default ones) I have seen in the last few years.

a return salvo? (1)

Mazzie (672533) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834329)

How long do you think it will take the penguins to fire back with a dedaemonizer?

Wait, would that be considered a downgrade to Linux if they already depenguinized? Or would it then be a repenguinizer?

err (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834334)

You miss-spelled "downgraded"

Nice troll, (1)

o'reor (581921) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834341)

and I'm gonna feed it. I think upgrading from Linux to BSD must be like upgrading from CSS2/XHTML to the HTML formatting used by this guy. Has the guy heard about HTML 3.2 ? :P

Re:Nice troll, (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834385)

offtopic, i'd rather use 3.2's [br] to [br /] -any- day of the year.

Niiice! (0)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834355)

A troll that made it to frontpage of Slashdot!
Any more examples of trolls that the editors accepted as actual stories?

Re:Niiice! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834423)

ever seen any of michael's?

Mookore "Upgrades" BSD to Windows XP. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834362)

1) type in reboot at the $ prompt
2) Insert Windows XP installer disk
3) Find out that the CDR with Windows XP on it has been "upgraded" to Knopppix
4) Run QtParted on knoppix to remove BSD from it
5) Click the Install to Hard drive option on the K menu.
6) Log out
7) Reboot into the power of the Penguin.
8) ???
9) Post BSD is dying troll and slashdot!

< MooKore, because only SWINES like trollkore use BSD >
\ ^__^
\ (oo)\_______
(__)\ )\/\
||----w |
|| ||

Let me get this straight... (0, Flamebait)

eviltypeguy (521224) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834366)

Let me get this straight, we're supposed to remove "inferior" RedHat distributions (such as 7.3 which Progeny is going to support) or Debian, because an unstable release of FreeBSD 5.x would be better for our systems, peacefully obliterating all of our data while this script is running as well? WTF?

"upgrade" using only ssh? hmm.... (1)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834368)

I wonder if there's a security risk here... so I can "upgrade" someone's linux installation to freebsd using only ssh, assuming permission is not blocked? That sounds like a potentially dangerous piece of software!

Re:"upgrade" using only ssh? hmm.... (1)

TCM (130219) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834454)

DUH, of course - if permission is not blocked - you can as well do rm -fr. It's not like some random kid on the net can upgrade your Linux if you have port 22 open to the world. Get a clue.

Linux is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834372)

It is official; Netcraft confirms: linux is dying

yadda, yadda, yadda...

You know the rest of the troll :)

In The spirit of the Holiday's (1)

mrmdls (684047) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834378)

Time for the Slashdot Chorus to start singing, "Chestnut's roasting by the open Fire"

Re:In The spirit of the Holiday's (1, Funny)

iapetus (24050) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834441)

Wow. The IT industry really is in a slump. I can remember the days when Slashdot readers could afford more than one chestnut between them...

Dead Rat (3, Funny)

lunenburg (37393) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834384)

Dead Rat? OMG! I get it! It's like you took "Red Hat" and changed some letters around, and now it's like insulting!

That's what makes it funny!!!!111

Re:Dead Rat (0)

TCM (130219) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834468)

I like "hatred" more.

does FreeBSD have something like apt-get or yum ? (1)

Jackson-The-Cat (245063) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834396)

Does FreeBSD have something like apt-get , or yum for fetching binary updates? I know you can patch the sources easily, but having to do a make world on 300 boxen is not my idea of time well spent.

Re:does FreeBSD have something like apt-get or yum (0)

Scott Lockwood (218839) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834401)

Yes. It's called ports. If you know how to use ports, it's possible to write a one-liner that will upgrade all the installed packages on a system (lord knows why you would do such a thing, but you can).

Re:does FreeBSD have something like apt-get or yum (0, Redundant)

cperciva (102828) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834451)

Would you be looking for FreeBSD Update, perhaps?

Useful! (1)

SynKKnyS (534257) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834397)

Where was this when I needed it about 3 months ago?! This is PERFECT for one of those Dedicated Server hosting providers that don't let you touch your box at all.

Oh, and "creep" not "creap."

THEY FEED ON THE LIVING! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834402)

It is official; Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dbblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

-1, Troll (-1, Troll)

RevMike (632002) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834404)

Why would anyone want to do this? BSD is dying!

Attention! You with the mod points. Yes, you.

Note the subject. If a message identifies itself as a troll, it can't really be a troll, but is rather an attempt at humor. (Conversely, any message that denies being a troll is most likely a troll, but hat is a different topic.) If you feel like wasting mod-points on this, do it on the basis of whether it was funny or not. Don't waste your mod-points calling it a troll.

The question we all want to see answered... (1)

hak hak (640274) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834426)

Those `upgraded' boxes... we know that of course they run NetBSD [netbsd.org] , but do they run Linux?

Not really an upgrade.... (4, Insightful)

bobthemuse (574400) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834427)

So all this does is write to the boot partition and load a barebones copy of bsd on a ramdisk? Not terribly impressive. Now if there was a script which could make a list of my RH packages, backup all my config files, generate an BSD install script, then most importantly, intelligently copy my config files from their old RH default location to the new BSD location, then I would be impressed.

Not really difficult, just time consuming. Of course, this assumes the RH system was installed through packages only, would break on most anything compiled, but the script described above would be a start.

Re:Not really an upgrade.... (2, Informative)

cperciva (102828) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834514)

So all this does is write to the boot partition and load a barebones copy of bsd on a ramdisk?

It also inserts a system configuration file into the filesystem image; and the filesystem in question -- UFS2 -- is one for which Linux support is rather lacking, so the filesystem image has to be built entirely within userland (thanks NetBSD!).

Darl McBride (0)

dark_day (581199) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834433)

there's also the Darl McBride version that makes your Linux server require a SCO licence to run.

BillG has a nice wide grin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834450)

With an impending Linux vs BSD war, guess Bill G must be having a nice time. Merry Christmas and a happy new year for BILL

Developer laments What Killed FreeBSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834461)

The End of FreeBSD

[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

= Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

Depenguinator... (1, Funny)

Unominous Coward (651680) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834473)

Not as useful as a defenestrator.

FreeBSD's final Christmas (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834477)

Outside this frigid tumble-down shack, dry leaves before the wild winter hurricane fly. Here within, at the corner by the cold hearth rests an empty stool. A crutch without a master stands perched against the wall. These forlorn and lonely objects serve as mute reminders of their departed owner, FreeBSD.

This crutch and vacant stool have become orphans, not unlike the now dead FreeBSD. No longer will FreeBSD hobble about on its cripple's crutch. Like the empty hearth, and the vacant stool, FreeBSD lies cold and still. FreeBSD's corpse, lifeless beneath frozen earth and December snows, will see no more Christmas cheer. No, there will be no Christmas ever again for FreeBSD, for FreeBSD is dead.

Goodbye, FreeBSD. The pain of life forever stilled, sleep for all eternity in that long winter's nap. Fade gently into Earth's frozen bosom where in dreams even cripples walk and blind men see.

Question : Does anyone care about BSD anymore? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834482)

I really think Slashdot should remove the BSD section of the site. All there is 90% trolls and 9% people comlaining about the trolls, with hardly any insightful comments. Sure BSD has its niche, but it is effectivley irrelevent to 99.9% of readers who don't use it.

BSDs base of supporters have moved on to non trolled sites. Removing the BSD section would be a boon for slashdot, and a bore for trolls. So, do you think Slashdot should remove this section, because agreeing with the trolls, it is almost "dead" on this site, so let it live in its niche.

Elegy for *BSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834488)


Elegy For *BSD


I am a *BSD user
and I try hard to be brave
That is a tall order
*BSD's foot is in the grave.

I tap at my toy keyboard
and whistle a happy tune
but keeping happy's so hard,
*BSD died so soon.

Each day I wake and softly sob
Nightfall finds me crying
Not only am I a zit faced slob
but *BSD is dying.

finally... (1)

thoolihan (611712) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834490)

I can safely live in a world running
ps -waux
instead of
ps -ef

-t

Thanks, thanks! (0)

EduardoFonseca (703176) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834492)

This is the best story ever. We are going to be able to watch the flamefest AND his server dive into oblivion: http://mrtg.daemonology.net/ [daemonology.net]

Great! Thanks CmdrTaco!

What We Can Learn From *BSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834496)

What We Can Learn From BSD
By Chinese Karma Whore [slashdot.org] , Version 1.0

Everyone knows about BSD's failure and imminent demise. As we pore over the history of BSD, we'll uncover a story of fatal mistakes, poor priorities, and personal rivalry, and we'll learn what mistakes to avoid so as to save Linux from a similarly grisly fate.

Let's not be overly morbid and give BSD credit for its early successes. In the 1970s, Ken Thompson and Bill Joy both made significant contributions to the computing world on the BSD platform. In the 80s, DARPA saw BSD as the premiere open platform, and, after initial successes with the 4.1BSD product, gave the BSD company a 2 year contract.

These early triumphs would soon be forgotten in a series of internal conflicts that would mar BSD's progress. In 1992, AT&T filed suit against Berkeley Software, claiming that proprietary code agreements had been haphazardly violated. In the same year, BSD filed countersuit, reciprocating bad intentions and fueling internal rivalry. While AT&T and Berkeley Software lawyers battled in court, lead developers of various BSD distributions quarreled on Usenet. In 1995, Theo de Raadt, one of the founders of the NetBSD project, formed his own rival distribution, OpenBSD, as the result of a quarrel that he documents [theos.com] on his website. Mr. de Raadt's stubborn arrogance was later seen in his clash with Darren Reed, which resulted in the expulsion of IPF from the OpenBSD distribution.

As personal rivalries took precedence over a quality product, BSD's codebase became worse and worse. As we all know, incompatibilities between each BSD distribution make code sharing an arduous task. Research conducted at MIT [mit.edu] found BSD's filesystem implementation to be "very poorly performing." Even BSD's acclaimed TCP/IP stack has lagged behind, according to this study. [rice.edu]

Problems with BSD's codebase were compounded by fundamental flaws in the BSD design approach. As argued by Eric Raymond in his watershed essay, The Cathedral and the Bazaar [tuxedo.org] , rapid, decentralized development models are inherently superior to slow, centralized ones in software development. BSD developers never heeded Mr. Raymond's lesson and insisted that centralized models lead to 'cleaner code.' Don't believe their hype - BSD's development model has significantly impaired its progress. Any achievements that BSD managed to make were nullified by the BSD license, which allows corporations and coders alike to reap profits without reciprocating the goodwill of open-source. Fortunately, Linux is not prone to this exploitation, as it is licensed under the GPL.

The failure of BSD culminated in the resignation of Jordan Hubbard and Michael Smith from the FreeBSD core team. They both believed that FreeBSD had long lost its earlier vitality. Like an empire in decline, BSD had become bureaucratic and stagnant. As Linux gains market share and as BSD sinks deeper into the mire of decay, their parting addresses will resound as fitting eulogies to BSD's demise.

Uh-oh (1, Funny)

essdodson (466448) | more than 10 years ago | (#7834503)

This code is beta-quality at best. Do not use this unless you know what you're doing.

Apparently the software was not designed to be used by the majority of the Linux community.

*BSD is dying (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7834508)

Fact: *BSD is dying

It is common knowledge that *BSD is dying. Everyone knows that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The erosion of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.

Fact: *BSD is dying

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