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MP3 Winners and Losers for 2003

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the getting-pretty-tired-of-2003-wrapups-now dept.

Music 408

An anonymous reader writes "Richard Menta over at MP3newswire.net just posted his annual winners and losers list in digital music for last year. The big winner is Apple for dominating MP3 portable player sales and the dramatic success of its iTunes service. Napster savior Roxio and the small independent record labels also made the winners list. The losers list include SonicBlue and MP3.com. Interestingly, Ogg Vorbis made the losers list, not because of the codec per se, but because iTunes has both catapulted the AAC format to number two and stimulated Microsoft to pour more of its efforts ($$$) into WMA and the iTunes clones, leaving little room left for the open source alternative. The 2001 and 2002 winners list are worth a look too and each have links to that year's losers list."

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408 comments

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864189)

FP

FP45 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864435)

OWNED [rulez.org]

Michael is a horrible editor who should be fired: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864192)

Why? Why fire one of the most active editors on slashdot?

Although they claim this is a news site, michael openly admits [slashdot.org] his extreme bias and his affinity towards slanting the facts to fit his predetermined notions.

michael was hired in the middle of hijacking the www.censorware.org [sethf.com] website in a very immature, unethical, and corrupt manner.

michael will frequently censor entire threads down to -1 [slashdot.org] , simply because he doesn't agree with it.

Even worse, sometimes michael (or some other slashdot editors) will mod a thread [kuro5hin.org] down to -1 [slashdot.org] , and revoke mod point priveledges if anything, *anything* in that thread is modded up.

Of course, this is just a partial list. michael's unprofessionalism, hypocrisy, and immaturity are well known to most long term slashdotters. It's amazing that despite this, and despite everyone's complaints to him and CmdrTaco, he has yet to change. This should not continue. michael should be fired now.

Re:Michael is a horrible editor who should be fire (-1, Offtopic)

CrankyFool (680025) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864211)

Well, certainly having an AC point this out to us in the middle of a discussion on a completely different topic has convinced me. Your wit, charm, and on-topicness (on-topicsity? on-topicsisity?) are irresistible! Down with Michael! Down with the lot of them! Anonymous Cowards of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but modpoints!

Re:Michael is a horrible editor who should be fire (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864244)

Relax man, he's just a slashdot editor and shouldn't affect your life. It's not like we're talking about anyone with any clout, you know.

Re:Michael is a horrible editor who should be fire (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864387)

Micheal, please login nexttime.

Re:Michael is a horrible editor who should be fire (1)

DeltaSigma (583342) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864250)

I'm captivated by your campaign. If you tell us what you intend to do to get Ogg Vorbis to all the poor youths in america, I just might vote for you in 2004...

Sorry, but anyone paying $300+ for a music player (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864200)

...is also a loser.

Re:Sorry, but anyone paying $300+ for a music play (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864222)

oddly enough so are people who sit at a web board and wait to make posts on new subject matter.

Re:Sorry, but anyone paying $300+ for a music play (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864237)

yeah, it's a good thing you're above all that

Re:Sorry, but anyone paying $300+ for a music play (2, Funny)

Jippy_ (564603) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864300)

Wait.. You mean you can't afford $300.00 of disposable income to throw giddily at an MP3 player or other unnecessary item?

Right, and I'M the loser.

Re:Sorry, but anyone paying $300+ for a music play (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864420)

No, I mean I didn't fall for the hype and pay grossly inflated prices when my RCA Lyra costs half as much and holds more songs than I'll ever need.

But if you're happy with your purchase, all the more power to you. And when you see IPod billboards everywhere you look, you'll understand where your extra $150 went.

4th FUCKING POST LOSERS N/T (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864209)

Important Stuff:
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Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
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Oh boy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864214)

This is terribly... interesting. *yawn*

Yup, winners alright (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864219)

Real big winners with iBook problems abound [blackcider.com] . Yay, we're incurring two class-action suits! We're the winners!

MP3.com.co (1)

MattRog (527508) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864220)

What ever happened to MP3.com -- the company?

Re:MP3.com.co (4, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864252)

It was bought by CNet. There was a minor bit of excitement as Michael Robertson, MP3.com's founder and current big-cheese at Lindows.com, noted CNet's plans were to close the entire thing down and maybe start something afresh using the domain name (essentially, they bought the domain name for a godawful amount of cash) and felt they should at least pass on MP3.com's music archive to someone else to store.

MP3.com declined, as far as we're aware the music archive that was at that site is now dead, and so is the site itself.

There's a bit about it here [theregister.co.uk] if you're interested.

Re:MP3.com.co (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864280)

Er Vivendi, sorry. CNet bought the domain name from Vivendi. Vivendi owned MP3.com itself. And Slashdot doesn't like me trying to correct a mistake I see straight away, so I need to wait a few minutes and in the mean time have little to do. So here's a joke:

A married man was having an affair with his secretary. One day, their passions overcame them and they took off for her house, where they made passionate love all afternoon. Exhausted from the wild sex, they fell asleep, awakening around 8:00pm.

As the man threw on his clothes, he told the woman to take his shoes outside and rub them through the grass and dirt. Mystified, she nonetheless complied. He slipped into his shoes and drove home. "Where have you been?" demanded his wife when he entered the house. "Darling, I can't lie to you. I've been having an affair with my secretary and we've been having sex all afternoon. I fell asleep and didn't wake up until eight o'clock." The wife glanced down at his shoes and said, "You lying bastard! You've been playing golf!".

No, I didn't think it was that funny either. Someone emailed me it.

Re:MP3.com.co (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864259)

they were bought out by some other company a couple months ago, and dropped the mp3.com archives.

Re:MP3.com.co (2, Informative)

Rkane (465411) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864294)

FuckedCompany.com [fuckedcompany.com] has a nice little blurp on it, as well as the letter [internalmemos.com] sent out to users. See the current mp3.com [mp3.com] homepage for a cheezy rendition of mp3.com's future.

ITMS is the true winner (-1, Insightful)

Aens (737179) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864223)

I just wanted to say that the iTunes Music Store has reinvented how I view music.

Now when I want a piece of music, I have it, instantly. And with my iPod, I can listen to it wherever I go, with no worries!

Bravo Apple, for the Invention of the Year [time.com] !

Re:ITMS is the true winner (2, Funny)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864232)

See to me, dealing with Quicktime for Windows or any Apple software on Windows is more of a PITA then going to the mall and buying a CD.

Re:ITMS is the true winner (-1)

Aens (737179) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864247)

Quicktime has always been buggy for my PC, but that's why I switched to my Mac. iTunes on the PC, however, is just gravy. Have you tried it out?

Re:ITMS is the true winner (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864279)

Yup, tried it. Slow, requires QuickTime. Uninstalled it after 15 min.

Re:ITMS is the true winner (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864356)

Most people have no problem with it. Time for a newer PC perhaps.

Re:ITMS is the true winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864278)

yeah i get my music instantly too, its called kazaa.

Re:ITMS is the true winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864304)

> Now when I want a pieve of music, I have it, instantly.
You get a crappy aac version of it, yay!

You can download the piece of music off of kazzaa(napster, etc.) instantly too, people have been doing it for years now. then you can go out and buy the cd, without the compression.

Re:ITMS is the true winner (1)

MoneyT (548795) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864452)

Hmmm, somehow I doubt Kazza has a dedicated server to give me my music as fast as my computer and the internet will let me, a guarantee of the quality of the file I'm getting or is a legal way for me to own the music. Likewise when i get the file off Kazza I have to hope that the person who ripped it has the intelligence to point and click (because a lot of people apparently don't). And of course, I also have to hope the file is properly labled, as apparently there are people out there that think Pat Benatar is Miriah Carey. And out of curiosity, what prevents me from buying the CD without the compression after I buy it from iTunes? Though why would I do that. If I wanted the music uncompressed, I would have bought it in the first place, and then if I wanted a portable version, I would have ripped it myself.

Microsoft reports on your music! (0)

SailfishMac (732653) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864310)

WMA(9) is a nightmare, you cant convert it to decent MP3 to listen on your flash portable MP3 players either, you lose the tags too. . iTunes you just burn a audioble cd and rip into MP3 at high bit rate and your done, making a backup in the process. . Microsoft reports on your music listening habits and your library. Only fools rush into WMA(9). . See my music hit list 2400+ hits from 230+ artists or my entire Library . http://homepage.mac.com/hogfish

Re:Microsoft reports on your music! (1)

TrancePhreak (576593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864417)

in the same right, AAC is the same way. You can burn WMA's to CD as well, but that doesn't make the quality of the file you got any better. Lots of flash portables and some HD based players also play WMA files, no need to convert them in the first place. But I guess if you're on a Mac then you get locked into one brand that works.

Re:ITMS is the true winner (5, Insightful)

fastidious edward (728351) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864317)

From the article:

The big winner is Apple for dominating MP3 portable player sales and the dramatic success of its iTunes service.

The dramatic success is Apple using its iTunes service to promote its iPod. iTunes has made a miniscule amount, purely a leader for the iPod. The iPod was here before iTunes, iTunes was envisaged as a way to make iPods more successful. iTunes was as much as a breakthrough on the music distribution scene as MP3 players were on the musical device scene were, but iPod deserves the praise, if iTunes weren't here another would have filled the gap, iPod and other MP3 players created the inertia and it is them that should get the praise.

Re:ITMS is the true winner (3, Informative)

timeOday (582209) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864330)

I just wanted to say that the iTunes Music Store has reinvented how I view music.

Now when I want a piece of music, I have it, instantly. And with my iPod, I can listen to it wherever I go, with no worries!

That description also fits Napster ca 1998 perfectly!

Of course the player back then would have been a Rio for sure. In fact if you remember, Diamond pioneered the idea not only by releasing the product, but by fending off an RIAA lawsuit [wired.com] that challenged the legitimacy of such products! (Of course the iPod is DRM'd so maybe it doesn't really owe to this legacy).

Re:ITMS is the true winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864440)

exactly.

but, of course, apple is the only company that invents, or innovates :)

Re:ITMS is the true winner (0)

TheCleo (735991) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864424)

Same for me. Now I browse for music as I'm having my morning coffee and then listen to mixes of my new music and existing music during the day on my iPod. Buying and setting up playlists is actually an enjoyable experience thanks to Apple.

True to a point... (5, Insightful)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864225)

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that one of the original arguments against Vorbis adoption was "But all the MP3 hardware out there uses a dedicated MP3 decoder chip, so they can't just 'upgrade the firmware' to support Vorbis", along with countless other arguments that deal with the fact that in any given project, 1 codec is easier to deal with than many.

Well, because we now have MP3, AAC, and WMA, all becoming popular, that means that instead of hardcoded support for 1 format, any company that's serious about making music software or hardware is probably going to want to support a plugin style architecture, which means that supporting a 4th, 5th, 6th, etc, format becomes much easier, so things like FLAC and Vorbis have one more barrier to entry removed from their paths.

Re:True to a point... (5, Insightful)

Lshmael (603746) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864266)

Yes, but if no online music stores are using Ogg Vorbis, it is unlikely that consumer demand will increase. As a result, most of the music player companies will not have the impetus to make a Vorbis plugin, hindering it in the "Codec Wars."

Re:True to a point... (4, Insightful)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864445)

if no online music stores are using Ogg Vorbis...

This has nothing to do with the popularity of mp3. mp3, like everything else, is more popular simply because it is more popular. It came out 1st, has hardware decoders, and people know what you mean when you say mp3 (a free/cheap music format for my computer, hardware player, etc). People just dont know or care if ogg is better. Also, mp3's were around for _years_ before there were online stores for them.

Not quite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864353)

Most portable mp3 players are made to do integer mat h really fast, but not floating point. When portable mp3 players started to become popular, the Ogg Vorbis codec was still only running under floating point math. At some point they released an integer decoder called tremor, but by that time the ipod had already come out and everyone had a cheap little mp3 player

I personally like Vorbis, and use it for my own CD's, but I doubt it will ever be a common format. None of the music stores are selling ogg, and I doubt any will in the near future

Sorry - WMA has won. (-1, Troll)

ProtonMotiveForce (267027) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864228)

WMA will be the dominant format going forward... I recently started ripping everything in either lossless WMA (archives) or 160 WMA (for portable player). It sounds better at a smaller size than MP3 - end of story.

It's also looking like it may be the format of choice for video. It could conceivably be the compression technique used for next gen HD-DVD.

About the only reason to use MP3 anymore is if you're married to Linux/MacOS.

Re:Sorry - WMA has won. (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864254)

"About the only reason to use MP3 anymore is if you're married to Linux/MacOS."

Or if your MP3 player is just that, a MP3 player. That having been said I use WMA on my portable player.

Sorry - YOU have lost. (4, Insightful)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864291)

For choosing WMA, for endorsing WMV.

Why?

Because Microsoft isn't a team player. There is no real technical benefit to WMA or WMV: All the 'next gen' codecs are better (ogg, wma, aac) than mp3, so the only real advantage to WMA is secondary.

Do you trust Microsoft? I don't. By using WMA, you give them more power and more clout, and like any big organization with the power to dictate international and national standards... I don't trust them. Unless of course you *like* paying taxes. Instead of money, though, Microsoft collects in marketshare and power.

Anyway, I hope you like living in a Microsoft future... I'm trying to avoid that, myself.

Re:Sorry - WMA has won. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864293)

A friend of mine got a computer with Windows Me and proceeded to use Windows Media Player to rip all his CDs into WMA format. Only later did he find out that he couldn't convert them back to wav files, burn them to an audio CD, or play them on his other computer.

Yeah, WMA is the future. barf.

Re:Sorry - WMA has won. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864329)

"Only later did he find out that he couldn't convert them back to wav files, burn them to an audio CD, or play them on his other computer."
  • Maybe your friend should learn how to use basic audio conversion software.

Re:Sorry - WMA has won. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864296)

MP3 is also a nice format for distributing music to 5% more people than the guy using WMA.

Re:Sorry - WMA has won. (2, Insightful)

P-Nuts (592605) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864299)

About the only reason to use MP3 anymore is if you're married to Linux/MacOS.

Huh? If you're married to Linux, you probably go the whole open-source, patent-free hog and go with OGG. And if you're married to MacOS you probably like iTMS and AAC.

disagree (4, Informative)

real_smiff (611054) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864322)

MP3 was won.. long before WMA appeared. It offers transparency on all but a few special samples at around 200kbps, and with storage getting cheaper, slightly more efficient codecs (Ogg Vorbis, for example) don't offer enough of an advantage for most people to move. I won't touch WMA with a long barge pole.. just because you made the (mistake IMHO) of going over completely to it, doesn't mean anyone else has to. Go read some very informative discussion at Hydrogenaudio.org [hydrogenaudio.org] for specific technical reasons not to use WMA.. other than being from Microsoft etc. Of course, there is a danger that many people will use WMA just because MS make it easy for them to get into it... but why that's a reason to advocate WMA, i can't imagine. It's unlikely MP3 support will be dropped in hardware any time soon I think... i'd be more worried about your sound quality and portability of those WMA files.

arg - beaten to it again (1)

real_smiff (611054) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864348)

again in the time it took me to compose that, 1000 other /.ers ripped the guy to pieces. sigh. :) Time to take typing lessons?

Well done, sir! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864336)

I salute you for putting this Lunix bigots in their place.

Re:Sorry - WMA has won. (3, Insightful)

Zigg (64962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864412)

About the only reason to use MP3 anymore is if you're married to Linux/MacOS.

No, the only reason to use WMA is if you're married to Windows. You won't get much use out of it outside that little circle...

big losers (5, Funny)

Savatte (111615) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864239)

In my opinion, anyone who downloaded Creed was a loser, not just for this year.

Re:big losers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864307)

and also anyone that pays money for a slashdot subscription. Seeing duplicate stories and slashvertisements 15 minutes sooner isn't worth paying for.

i can't concentrate today (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864241)

no, it's not because it's friday. and it's not because almost everyone took the day off. it's because i didn't do my morning masturbation. i yank off every morning but didn't have time today. so here i am trying to work on the code but all the time thinking about jennifer connelly's big tits rubbing in my face. oh lord how i wish i could go home early and jerk myself silly while watching one of her flicks.

Re:i can't concentrate today (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864260)

That post, my friend, is called "over-share."

NAPSTER? (5, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864242)

I don't know how they can be considered a winner. Quite frankly, the only think they have going for them is their logo. Everybody and his uncle is setting up a store to sell WMA downloads, and Steve Jobs has stated that profits are almost non-existant.

Re:NAPSTER? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864319)

except that it is another thing to drive iPod sales

Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (5, Insightful)

Krapangor (533950) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864248)

DRM is coming.
Yes, we'll all start to whine and complain but there is no way to stop it.
Without DRM to whole business chain of the entertainment industry is fucked. So they'll enforce it.

With this background fact, you won't wonder that OGG was turned down. The encryption shemes will make sure that the song only play on certificated players. However a player which supports formats which can be used to illegal copies will never get such a certification. So the manufacturers will avoid these formats at all cost.

When you watch this development the original movitivation of the OGG development team seems to very naive and economically clueless. While there might be some niche applications for OGG, it will be useless for the downtrodden masses. Basically the development of OGG has merely an academic value.

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (1)

Clinoti (696723) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864295)

Good point, I was thinking that despite the leetist hatred of Microsoft the strenghing of their format, by their own and through another complete vendor is a nice (yes I said it) business move. Market driving forces > *.

But I completely see where you are coming from, the DRM ability and movement just got a huge push.

However (you had to see that coming) the old closed vs. open argument in relation to consumer abilty to utilze goods under anymaeans that they see fit I.E. non proprietary locking is going to come full circle as people hopefully will question the validity of DRM when an mp3 they got from a friend wont play on their new ipod system.

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (1)

shario (109443) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864361)

Besides, the name is just plain weird. You don't want to recommend anyone a product whose name you have to explain every time :)

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864442)

How is "ogg" any weirder than "emm-pee-three"?

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (4, Funny)

harlows_monkeys (106428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864365)

DRM is coming

DRM can be used with Ogg. Oops. There goes your whole argument.

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (1)

McDutchie (151611) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864399)

With this background fact, you won't wonder that OGG was turned down. The encryption shemes will make sure that the song only play on certificated players. However a player which supports formats which can be used to illegal copies will never get such a certification.

Formats like MP3, you mean?

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (5, Interesting)

dotwaffle (610149) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864401)

OGG is not an academic project. It really is very efficient and very nice sounding, far better than WMA or MP3. I admit, I have not tried AAC. And DRM may be coming, but it sure as hell isn't going to stay. Look at Region Coding... It's being phased out as people realise that it is in fact a way for companies to weasle money out of people when they could in fact buy the same product, from the same manufacturer and artist, several months earlier in the case of the UK, and at a lesser cost. Needless to say, DRM will be a bad idea, as it restricts not only where the user may use the data, but when, and also from which agent they purchase it - they will HAVE to get an authorised version from the publisher of the music, and have to get permission to copy it to a CD, or their iPOD or the tape for their antiquated car stereo (yeah, I still have a tape deck). I will go out of my way to buy a higher quality CD rather than a rubbish quality MP3 off the internet. 128Kbps MP3's really are awful if you have spent more than a fiver on your speakers. 192Kbps OGG (equiv to at least 256Kbit MP3, or maybe more) preserves almost everything, and until companies get real and start providing lossless music downloads, I'm sticking to buying CD's. Sure, I may still download music, but as I think the radio is awful quality, and the adverts are sheer annoying waffle, I feel good knowing that by downloading (I admit, pirating) these tracks, I am exposing myself to their music, and consequently may purchase more.

Take four star mary, I got interested in them back in 2000. I listened to one of their tracks that came on a compilation album. I liked it, so I downloaded a track or two more. Still, I liked it, but wasn't happy with the quality. Knowing they are a small time band, I went out and bought an album. I now own both the albums, and some merchandise, and have seen them live. I'm sure this rings true with other too. Downloading one or two tracks doesn't harm the artist or the industry, downloading an entire album when you like their music and could have afforded buying the CD DOES. It's down to the guilt of the involved party on whether they should contribute or not.

It's all about what people deserve, and if the recording (and indeed, movie) industry want to force us to pay through the nose for it all, they're going to have egg all over their collective faces when users start looking for alternatives. iMusic only works because it's cheaper than buying CD's, and doesn't force you to commit to one format - Microsofts way would more than likely commit to WMA.

To go back to my original point, with the right word of mouth techniques, OGG could go far. Really far, especially as it can't be stifled like WMA. You know what I mean, and you know it makes sense. It's not bad business, it's good business. Trust your customer, and they're more likely to make a return visit!

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864404)

proud owner of a troll card: look at his posts from the past

Re:Not surprising that OGG was turn down. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864441)

"Without DRM [the] whole business chain of the entertainment industry is fucked."

So let's see, the entertainment industry (making literature, music, and drama for profit) has existed for several thousand years without DRM. Now the world is finally experimenting with DRM because the entertainment industry can't survive two weeks without it.

Get off it already. People have been duplicating books since there were pens. They've been duplicating audio recordings since audio cassettes. They've been taping movies since VCRs. Media piracy pre-dates the RIAA.

Here's the REAL facts. Most people don't pirate, even when it's easy. Even fewer people will pirate if there's trivial technical difficulty. There are already laws against pirating media that can be applied quite well even without any DRM in place. And it is impossible to design a DRM system that "protects media" AND ensures all of the fair use rights of consumers. We're being asked to choose between protecting media that ALREADY HAS LEGAL PROTECTION for an industry that's DONE JUST FINE WITHOUT IT and the rights we've had to our media all our lifetimes. We can't have both. I certainly know which one I choose.

And the winner is ... (0, Offtopic)

asadchev (735149) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864249)

... Madonna,
for her hit mp3 "What the fuck do you think you are doing?" [anti-dmca.org]

Re:And the winner is ... (1)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864447)

After seeing her latest antics with Britney Spears, I'd have to ask Madonna the same question.

a surprising runner-up!! (3, Funny)

coronaride (222264) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864261)

The best portable music device is the metal plate in my head! Too bad I only get the Fiesta music station... :(

Once again, Apple fucks the OSS community. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864268)

First it was Quicktime and now this. Yet another closed media format that Apple pushes for Windows and OS X and noone else. Thanks again Apple!


For all the inevitable Mac Zealots who will now hurl insults and invective at me for questioning the one great company, here is an undeniable fact that you cannot deny: Mac users can use any and all open source software but FreeBSD and Linux users cannot use any desktop software produced by Apple.

Re:Once again, Apple fucks the OSS community. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864402)

[...] here is an undeniable fact that you cannot deny: Mac users can use any and all open source software but FreeBSD and Linux users cannot use any desktop software produced by Apple.

Oh? [apple.com]

-----

Michael: Is your ego bigger than The Cause? [sethf.com]

Wrong again, fucktard. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864407)

How is MPEG-4 AAC, an open, licensable standard, [vialicensing.com] a "closed media format"????

Re:Wrong again, fucktard. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864446)

Because it's protected by patents and requires licensing/royalties.

That makes an Open Source decoder or encoder all but impossible.

Oh come off it :P (2, Insightful)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864438)

I'm being facetious but it's true!

Any and all Linux users can use the full suite of Apple software under Mac OS X; all you need is a Mac. Sure, that forces you to run OS X, but at least you can run OS X under Linux through MacOnLinux.

And the BSD folk will have to settle for OS X itself, which is a flavor of BSD...

The desktop software produced by Apple isn't free, as in beer, or free, as in liberty, but free as in concession: You give and they give, and both win.

Or you can run Windows under VMWare...

Apple's goal is not OS equality (which is why they don't offer their software on all OSes, as that requires tremendous QA resources) or OS alternatives... they only care about making money, and making happy customers. That's it.

If you want to be an Apple customer, you need Apple product. That means hardware+software, or Windows+iTunes. They aren't a charity, any more than you are.

A Missing Loser? (4, Insightful)

illuminata (668963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864269)

How come there was no mention of Emusic on the loser list? They switched to a much more restrictive user agreement and had a mass exodus of their subscribers.

I love Apple's DRM (-1, Insightful)

SlashdotCEO (737177) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864272)

Apple got the DRM right:

iTunes lets you rip to AAC, MP3, WAV, or AIFF. iTMS purchases are limited to a protected version of AAC, but they can be freely burned to CD, after which there's no protection anymore. Other music players should be able to add the ability to play non-protected AAC files fairly easily. The protections on purchased songs really just keep you from putting them on P2P networks, web sites, or emailing them to other people. The latter can be gotten around if they also have iTunes AND you trust them with your authorization password.

Re:I love Apple's DRM (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864335)

Just keep one thing into perspective. DRM protects music from YOU. The music industry doesn't want to risk their property to be ummm...say.....shared!

If you ask me, I would rather pay a flat monthly fee and get unlimited MP3 downloads. That would keep me from having to leach off of P2P networks where the source and quality of the files are dubious at best.

Re:I love Apple's DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864352)

>but they can be freely burned to CD, after whcih there's no protection anymore

except that their useless. (can only listen to them on a cd player, useless for reripping)

2003 called (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864290)

It wants all of its '* of 2003' stories back.

Re:2003 called (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864318)

your mom called. She wants my 12-inch cock back. Tell her not to worry though. Once she can find $50, I'll ket her suck me off again.

Re:2003 called (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864366)

Your dad called. He, too, wants your 12 inch cock back - in his ass where it belongs.

Define "little room" (2, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864292)

Because on my box I've got vorbis files, but there seems to be a distinct lack of ACC and WMA files.

Ah, I get it. You mean little room left in the commercial, RIAA endorsed online music store field.

What has that got to do with an open source solution? Is there "no room" for Linux because of all the money Apple and MS are pouring into their operating systems?

Open Source means will continue to serve very well for Open Source ends.

KFG

Re:Define "little room" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864367)

exactly.
i still buy cds, but i always rip an .ogg copy to my hard drive to listen to. i like the sound of ogg best, so that what i use.

Re:Define "little room" (1)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864455)

If you mark your hard drive with a green felt marker it'll sound even better!

mp3.com (5, Interesting)

nnnneedles (216864) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864301)

I once visited mp3.com when they we're still going strong. They had something like 400 employees and very luxurious buildings with graffitti on the walls and everything.

They were having a talent show there, and I expected to see some of the thousand of bands they had signed up performing. Unfortunately, it was the employees themselves who were the talent. With the bosses performing their own poems and so on.

I feel sorry for the guys working there, as you could smell the money being burnt everywhere you went, and they probably had no idea they were already dead.

This was almost 3 years ago, and back then they had already been working for six months on the next generation music-selling tech that they are currently advertising on their site.

The point to all this is: Don't employ 400 people unless you are generating huge amounts of cash.

Re:mp3.com (1)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864415)

luxurious buildings with graffitti on the walls and everything.

Wow that does sound like a cut above!

Don't feed the trolls! (4, Funny)

JoeLinux (20366) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864306)

Great, just when we get the trolls content here, ANOTHER website stirs them up.

Ok, just so it's put down, please select your Ogg/Vorbis argument from the following menu:

1) Ogg/Vorbis is supported by (obscure mp3 player). Why should I get that (*drool*) new, affordable iPod?
2) Ogg/Vorbis can work in a DRM-based business model! Here is how: Step 1: Get five candles and a live goat.
3) Ogg/Vorbis is the best. Me and my four friends will not buy anything that won't support that. I'm sure Apple will be shaking in their boots from this ultimatum delivered from my parent's basement.
4) Hey! Why don't I just convert the mp3 collection to Ogg/Vorbis?
(Followed by: "Idiot: those are both lossy mediums."

Ok, I'm done.

Joe

In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see 'em.

Re:Don't feed the trolls! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864345)

The fact that you see these things pop up EVERY time on slashdot would probably indicate (to a SMART person anyway) there there is a significant pro-OGG community out there. Just as Apple has always gotten along as a second-place company, I think OGG will continue to get along as the third (or fourth, fifth, whatever) format. It's greatest weakness (no DRM) is also its greatest strength, even if Apple's super-fashionable hardware of the day doesn't support it.

Re:Don't feed the trolls! (1)

JoeLinux (20366) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864390)

I tend to think that it's the same 10 people (exageration) that post, offering up the wonders and beauty of Ogg. I am a firm believer that the free market will shake out what is best.

MS tried to fight that trend. Linux is starting to bitchslap them. Long live Linux. It will be a beautiful day when the argument isn't whether or not to install Windows or Linux, but rather, which version of Linux.

Joe

Never enter into a gun fight with a handgun that does not begin with ".4"

Re:Don't feed the trolls! (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864350)

Sorry, I got my post in before yours.

KFG

Re:Don't feed the trolls! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864351)

Why should I get that (*drool*) new, affordable iPod?
There are affordable iPods?

Re:Don't feed the trolls! (1)

Cryptnotic (154382) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864464)

Step 1: Get five candles and a live goat.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit!

Poppycock! We need a standard! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864309)

Until there is a STANDARD format for digital music, I will not buy from any online music stores.

The great thing about CDs is you can put it in any player and it plays (until recent "Protection" shit). If I buy my CD at HMV, it plays on my JVC Stereo, my Sony Discman, my Mac, my Windows box, my Linux box, etc. It shouldn't matter where I buy it from.

Now, if I buy through iTunes, I get tied to iTunes and iPod for playing. Yes, I can burn it to CD and re-rip, but what's the point, then?

They need to standardize digital music files so shopping at any online store will allow it to be played on any player.

-----

Fuck you, Michael [slashdot.org]

Ogg? (3, Interesting)

kupo zero (581452) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864325)

I don't really think Ogg Vorbis is a loser this year, in fact I think otherwise. It got tremendous exposure from being the main audio format in RH, and a lot of open source big wigs are pushing for it. It at least caught my attention, all my CD rips are now in Ogg Vorbis format.

I know who loses... (5, Insightful)

vudufixit (581911) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864327)

The consumer - we get sued, screwed, and DRM'd out of our right to enjoy the music we purchase the way we want to.

IRiver (4, Informative)

Gyan (6853) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864341)

The iHp-120 is a winner too and it plays Ogg.

ogg has a special place in my heart (5, Interesting)

bryerton (524453) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864347)

As a game developer, using ogg vorbis as a royalty free, open source audio decoder rocks. I can use it on the two platforms I care about (mac and pc) for free. Booyah.

OGG VORBIS (4, Funny)

molafson (716807) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864405)

Just as every cassette left in a car for a fortnight is destined to turn into a 'Best Of Queen' album [loq12.at] , every discussion of digital music on Slashdot must eventually become a polemic re: Ogg Vorbis.

I have an iPod - In My Mind (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864411)

I'm sure you've seen a lot of tech-savvy people smugly showing off that new hunk of entertainment hardware, the iPod personal stereo. Well, I might not have the scratch to get one, but frankly, I don't want the white-corded wonder. I have my very own iPod--in my mind.

I hear those little things carry up to a month's worth of music. Well, so does my mind. I can call up any song I've ever heard, any time I want. And I never have to load software or charge batteries. There are no firewire cords or docks to mess with. I just put my hands behind my head, lean back, and select a tune from the extensive music-library folder inside my brain.

Thirty gigabytes? So what? I know 7,500 songs, maybe more. Some songs, I forget I even have until they come around on shuffle. Why, just the other day, my mind started playing David Naughton's "Makin' It," a song I hadn't heard in years. And the sound quality was great!

Easy downloads? You don't know the meaning of the word "easy." And I don't have to know the meaning of the word "download." You may get MP3s off the Internet, you smug scenester, but I can get music off the television, the radio, even a passing ice-cream truck. If I don't want to waste the memory space on a high-fidelity copy, I just don't pay very close attention. Now, that's what I call convenience.

All I have to do is hear a song once or twice, and it's stored forever. I can call it up any time I want. Beach Boys. Beatles. How about some Bach? Or some Billy Joel? Sing me a song, piano man of my mind! And those are just the artists whose names begin with "B."

I can browse by artist, album, song, or music genre. Boom! I'm doing it right now! The "repeat" feature? Heck, songs from my iPod don't ever have to end. I swear, I had "Music Box Dancer" going through my head for three days straight last week.

You say those iPods have customizable playlists that allow you to line up songs of your choosing? Primitive! I can put together a playlist, say "Best-Ever Heavy Metal Anthems," while I'm sitting in traffic. My mind is light-years beyond that, though. Does your iPod have the "That Reminds Me Of Another Great Song" feature? Well, my mind does!

Does your iPod have a powerful feature that can play back the great songs of summer 1993, as they sounded coming out of Mike Tollefson's boombox in the back of the school bus? Of course not. That particular playlist is in my brain, which your pitiful iPod will never be able to autosync with.

But wait, you say that my iPod isn't wrapped up in a pretty little white case? Oh, I guess you haven't heard of a pretty little white case I like to call my skull. There's plenty of room for all of my contacts, too. Check this out: Paula, 398-9172, 195 Webster Place. Ha! Take that, Apple.

Sure, it doesn't hold all the music I've ever heard, but if I can't remember a song, it's usually not worth having anyway. Except, I'll admit, that one by The Tubes that I think was called "She's One In A Million Girls." The file somehow got corrupted with part of that J. Geils Band song about the centerfold. But every product has its bugs, right?

Even so, my mind has features your iPod will never have. Does your iPod have real-time remixing? No?! Well, if I don't like the original lyrics to Kansas' "Carry On Wayward Son"--zip, zip, zing--my mind can change them! Adding a cool bass line or a rocking keyboard flourish to any piece of music? No problem! Adding images of myself performing on stage with the band? Done!

Does your iPod turn you from just another bus-rider into a lonely figure finding his way down Baker Street? Guess what? My mind can! And it does it all with no moving parts, man. None. 'Cause it's my mind.

ipoding on the cheap (0)

gr8gatzby (624204) | more than 10 years ago | (#7864436)

today i bought a new in box 10gb ipod for $10.74 at the local goodwill. even the shrinkwrap was untouched. w00t to goodwill!

Re:ipoding on the cheap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864449)

If this is a true story, you owe some anonymous, thieving crackhead somewhere a debt of thanks.

Congrats! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7864466)

Yesterday, I bought a urine-soaked mattress for $4.29. Goodwill rules!
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