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Video Scratching Goes Mainstream

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the wiki-wiki-wiki dept.

Music 180

Boomzilla writes "Pioneer has released a digital audio and video turntable (the DVJ-X1), which allows you to manipulate and playback synchronized digital audio and video. You can manipulate DVD visuals in the same way as you would music i.e. real-time digital video scratches, loops and instant cues. The video and audio streams will stay in sync, even when they're being reversed and pitched. I guess this is the logical, commercialized version of that which has been done before. It's being shown at CES, and there are several pictures on the official Pioneer site."

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GNAA Ported to XBOX (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908577)

GNAA Ported to XBOX
By GNAA staff
New York, NY - GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) this afternoon announced completion of a project started almost 6 months ago, porting of Windows CE.NET environment to Microsoft's XBOX gaming platform.

In a shocking announcement this afternoon, GNAA representative lysol demonstrated the XBOX running Microsoft's own Windows CE.NET 4.2 operating system.
"This is quite an important achievement," lysol began. "By porting Windows CE to XBOX, GNAA will be able to create a beowulf cluster of all XBOXes and use them to recruit more gay niggers. Next step will naturally be porting our GNAAOS framework to the new system, which will allow us to highly increase our gay nigger membership.
Unlike the Microsoft's custom OS, based on Windows 2000 kernel currently running on the XBOX, with a custom (and somewhat limited API), Windows CE.NET will allow running a whole range of Win32 applications on the XBOX by simply recompiling them. Because the differences between Windows CE.NET Win32 API are minimal, any type of gay nigger software can be easily ported to run on the new platform. GNAA is expecting to begin work on porting GNAAOS framework "real soon now", according to GNAA representative goat-see.

For more details, please visit GNAA official website at http://pepper.idge.net/gnaa/ [idge.net] .

About GNAA
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Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
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Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here [nero-online.org] .

About Xbox
Xbox (http://www.xbox.com/) is Microsoft's future-generation video game system that delivers the most powerful games experiences ever. Xbox empowers game artists by giving them the technology to fulfill their creative visions as never before, creating games that blur the lines between fantasy and reality. Xbox is now available in the continents of North America, Europe, Asia and Australia.

About Microsoft
Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq "MSFT") is the worldwide leader in software, services and Internet technologies for personal and business computing. The company offers a wide range of products and services designed to empower people through great software -- any time, any place and on any device.
Microsoft and Xbox are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corp. in the United States and/or other countries.


If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.
By moderating this post as "Underrated", you cannot be Meta-Moderated! Please consider this.

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Re:GNAA Ported to XBOX (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908659)

Video Scratching. What is it all about... is it good, or is it whack?

Re:GNAA Ported to XBOX (-1, Troll)

ez76 (322080) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908827)

do you like SCRATCHING? [what is it]

do you listen to the world famous supreme team show?

TROLLGNAA DECLARED NULL (-1, Offtopic)

fastidious edward (728351) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908725)

The GNAA and TROLLPOOR are hereby declared the one and the same. The original creation of a frustrated 15 year-old in England (sources report this to be Sir Haxalot/Pingular himself) they have attracted a global following but are on the verge of collapse following their recent and humiliating routing here on /. where they were unable to put up any resistance other than TK/DK/Quackinator(#), a lone script kiddie using multiple accounts, who was forced to give up less than 24 hours ago when his mommy forced him to bed. Even the $699 bot beat their ass that day.

The rank of college misfits that formed the GNAA footsoldiers has ebbed away after their first semester results revealed they almost got their asses kicked out of college, "d00d, we're never going to get a Java programming jon in 'The Valley' at this rate" they said to themselves (daddy kept them in skool with a charitable donation), oblivious that the .com boom had ended 4 years ago, 7 years before their graduation, and that programmers with skill were needed, the day unemployment hit 'The Valley' was the day all below-par low-value-added work got shipped to India where someone would do it better for less and be grateful, despite the anacronous bitching the mediocre-skill-endowed /.ers do.

It is eniveitable some kind of ASCII-art inspired script-kiddie-wannabies will always lurk on /., but the fallacy these people are part of an intelligent movement is forever gone.

Trollkore, GNAA and CLIT are dead, long live the /. troll. '``sword` ` ```.-"`````"-. '' ' 8'` GNAA & trollkore suck gay ass
|``skull` ` ``/```sword```\ ' ' 7'` GNAA & trollkore suck gay ass
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|``skull` ` `|/````/ \````\| ' '3'` GNAA & trollkore suck gay ass
'````(@_` ` `(_````^ ^````_) ' '2'` GNAA & trollkore suck gay ass
|' .... )`\___\__|IIIII|__/___ ____ ____ _____ blood of trollkore
' ( )@8@{ {____|-\IIIII/-|____ ____ ____ _____> and CLIT and GNAA
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' clit (@`` kore ``---`---`` ` ' ' 'GNAA & trollkore suck gay ass

Tove,you beautiful baby, get the sexy going... (-1)

iluvtrolls (717573) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908588)

Hey All! Have you ever seen Linus Torvald's wife Tove Torvalds [linuxgazette.com] ? Not to be rude but can't that beautiful baby get a makeover and put on the sexy [freebsd.org] ?! I mean, Linus has become very metro [chrisabraham.com] recently and he is a very trendy metrosexal [wired.com] ! You see, Linus used to look like a complete dork [computec.ch] . But now, if I was a faggot [cmdrtaco.net] , I would be all over this guy today! In the meantime, I'm sure Linus [wired.com] is getting his share of the booth babes [scorchedearth3d.net] ... ;)

Re:Tove,you beautiful baby, get the sexy going... (-1, Offtopic)

fastidious edward (728351) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909029)

As Mayaan [scorchedearth3d.net] gazes at him on the floor [scorchedearth3d.net] she imagines him having phonesex [scorchedearth3d.net] with another woman [scorchedearth3d.net] ...

As Nitzam dreams, he thinks of many women [scorchedearth3d.net] other than dear Mayaan. [scorchedearth3d.net] In [scorchedearth3d.net] fact [scorchedearth3d.net] he [scorchedearth3d.net] dreamt [scorchedearth3d.net] of [scorchedearth3d.net] lot [scorchedearth3d.net] of [scorchedearth3d.net] women [scorchedearth3d.net] night [scorchedearth3d.net] , an [scorchedearth3d.net] awful [scorchedearth3d.net] lot [scorchedearth3d.net] . But his [scorchedearth3d.net] dreams [scorchedearth3d.net] were [scorchedearth3d.net] a href="http://www.scorchedearth3d.net/images/e3/boo thbabe16.jpg">cut short [scorchedearth3d.net] when (ohh, she is specially nice on the left) [scorchedearth3d.net] [scorchedearth3d.net] girlfriend [scorchedearth3d.net] realised [scorchedearth3d.net] his [scorchedearth3d.net] dreams [scorchedearth3d.net] were [scorchedearth3d.net] very [scorchedearth3d.net] REAL [scorchedearth3d.net] .

here.

SHOULD I JOIN THE DARK SIDE? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908589)

I'm referring to the lame notion that the dorks over at Anti-Slash [anti-slash.org] may actually be chipping away at the enemy [slashdot.org] . Slashdot is a cesspool of limpdicked self-rightous lameness as we all know. My problem is, as much as I'd love to see Slashdot go down in flames, and as much as the fat pasty I'm-Better-Than-Slashdot geek faggots [anti-slash.org] seem to want the same, I can't seem to bring myself down to their level of karmawhoredom at the moment. Karmawhoring is an "artform" that just seems to reek of sucking AIDS-ridden cock. Yet both myself and these losers [anti-slash.org] have the same noble goal. I certainly have the skills and the resources to wreak havoc, but at what cost? I'm at a crossroad to help them or crapflood their site (something which they say they will fix... kinda sounds like Slashdot's "lameness" filter). In the fight against evil [slashdot.org] , is it worth it to team with a dark side to fight another dark side? This is my quandry. I must meditate [jackdaniels.com] on this.

Re:SHOULD I JOIN THE DARK SIDE? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908637)

Demented and sad... but social

Re:SHOULD I JOIN THE DARK SIDE? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908800)

Crapflood 'em. No question.

Re:SHOULD I JOIN THE DARK SIDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909443)

Join them, and together you can rule the galaxy.

About this device (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908598)

Sorry but I dont see any mention anywhere in this article about whether or not the device runs alternate operating systems. It is absolutely insane that a company would release a product these days that does not run linux. I vote that we give these dolts a DOS attack that will make sure they never make THAT mistake again. I am sick and tired of all these "mainstream" morons who use Windows. Anybody who uses Windows is a worthless steaming pile of ignorance, and does not deserve to be near a computer in the first place.

Hello Smithers (5, Funny)

Sarojin (446404) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908621)

You are very good.. at turning me on

Damn..that thing looks sweet.. (2, Funny)

cOdEgUru (181536) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908623)

This THING [pioneerprodj.com] is enough to get any geek laid!!..

Just imagine walking in to a Club with this. Even if you have hardly an inch on your face with out a pimple, you will still get laid...

Re:Damn..that thing looks sweet.. (1)

el-spectre (668104) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908865)

well, it'd get most geeks off... dunno 'bout getting laid...

Re:Damn..that thing looks sweet.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909158)

It's enough to get a geek laid, if the target is another geek that wants one.

Buffering? (2, Insightful)

SexyKellyOsbourne (606860) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908624)

How big of a buffer does this thing have? If this thing uses DVDs for a turntable, then it must mean it has over 5GB of RAM to get around the lag of spinning the disk to find the part of the video.

Unless, of course, it only goes over the span of a few seconds, but since video/audio streams take up a ton of data, then it must have something like 512MB of ram built in to do it.

That, plus they have to find a way to capture the results of the delta frames, or else they're going to have artifacts.

Pretty amazing stuff.

Re:Buffering? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908646)

Parent's sig is nero-online's last measure, if anyone wasn't familiar with this troll already.

GOATSE LINK IN SIG (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908672)

Mod down please.

HOW ABOUT YOU SUCK MY COCK, FAGGOT!??!? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908688)

You once again prove your FAGGOTRY by being a fucking FAGGOT! Consume my shitbits, FAGGOT!

That much RAM... (4, Funny)

irokitt (663593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908816)

Hmm...

It has RAM, and a DVD drive. Therefore, it can be made to run Linux!

Re:That much RAM... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909288)

of course it runs netbsd

Buffering, Mixing, Scratching and Backwards Maskin (1)

Sensitive Claude (709959) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908867)

Unless, of course, it only goes over the span of a few seconds, but since video/audio streams take up a ton of data, then it must have something like 512MB of ram built in to do it.

Well, I think the concept is to mix and scratch like you would LP records in hip hop music. Well, not really mix since you would need another player and the equivilant of a cross-fader, but that would be cool.

So really, you only need to handle the amount of memory to manipulate a few seconds. But why not do overkill?

Other things you could do with this is play at fast speed. The equivilant of playing a 33rpm record at 45rpms.... and with fine pitch control. Not to mention playing things backwards. For these you might need more memory.

Re:Buffering? (1)

pjwalen (546460) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908975)

Pioneer's digital mixing equipment generally doesn't come with a cheap price tag. 512 might be a not so generous estimate with the cheap costs of DDR these days. It wouldn't be unreasonable to see the buffer even as high as a gig or two. From Pioneer it isn't unreasonable to purchase a turntable for $2000 or more.

Re:Buffering? (2)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908998)

Buffer *all* the audio, and use tivo-like functionality for the video. It's ok if the video looses exact synch for a moment.

The audio going a little off would probably ruin the product, so they *might* have to buffer the whole thing. I'd guess that it's two levels of cache: RAM, HD, and DVD. If the user scratches too far, the video drops a few frames while it reads ahead off the HD and pounds on the DVD to fill the buffer in the new direction.

I'm sure they could make something at least semi-usable that only had RAM for under 2 minutes of (compressed) video. Think of how fast a DJ would have to spin that nob if he wanted to get all the way to the beginning before a DVD player could pull the data down.

If this thing behaves exactly as it should, I want to shake hands with the project manager. Nice fucking tech.

Re:Buffering? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909491)

If this thing behaves exactly as it should, I want to shake hands with the project manager. Nice fucking tech.

I've read that it does, in fact, perform exactly as advertised. Nice fucking tech indeed.

Re:Buffering? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909544)

One thing worth taking into account (from a dj):

If the user is scratching forward, the output still only needs 32 fps for normal video- I'm not very familiar with DVD compression, but it might be possible to skip certain packets of data and only read what will eventually be outputted.

In other words, why bother reading all the data?

Re:Buffering? (1)

holloway (46404) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909671)

Huh? Why couldn't it be read live? The average DVD seek time is 70, with 300 mSec for a worst case scenario. A good drive may be able to lower this seek time further, so it seems that there's little cacheing required for dvd scratching.

DVD delta frames vary in length -- it's a per DVD choice, right? Maybe they might need cache for that, but there are drives fast enough to compensate for this.

Other than porn video money-shots... (-1, Offtopic)

mikeophile (647318) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908625)

How useful is this?

Modded Redundant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908702)

I suppose it's redundant to you because looping money shots is your prime form of entertainment?

Re:Modded Redundant? (1, Offtopic)

ez76 (322080) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908862)

Come again?

MOD PARENT UP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909073)

+5 FUNNY!!

Re:Other than porn video money-shots... (4, Insightful)

afidel (530433) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908916)

Actually I've found that doing porn really tends to not go over so well with most crowds. Instead I use a lot of kung-fu, anime, war shots, and old black and white films. Nuclear weapons test footage also works well. I add to that custom 3D renders and live effects, and get a show that most people like. I tend to do this while I am mixing live and let Geiss's Milkdrop run when I'm taking a break =)

Re:Other than porn video money-shots... (1)

Saeger (456549) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909266)

porn really tends to not go over so well with most crowds.

You only DJ in the U.S.? Sex isn't such a big taboo in other parts of the world. Or maybe it's a universal thing that the girlfriends in the crowd don't want the guys thinking about sex with anyone else.

--

Re:Other than porn video money-shots... (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909354)

Yeah I VJ in the midwest, not the bible belt but probably more conservative then the coasts. Of course the crowds that tend to go to the clubs and parties I VJ are pretty liberal. I think it has more to do with it being porn and the objectification of women then the sex part, hell I've seen people having sex in the corners and that didn't really raise any eyebrows. Besides there's nowhere better than the rust belt for good electronic music Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh has probably one of the best scenes in the world.

5, insightful (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908627)

Before you mod me troll
Or add me as your freindly foe
There is something you ought to read
So please, listen to this plead.

Let's see it in action. (4, Interesting)

ActionPlant (721843) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908634)

We could already do basically the same kind of thing with iMovie, although with more of a workspace interface, but it was still nice and cheap.

Still, a scrub machine for the masses. Could make for some interesting deejay team competitions; visuals used to be automated. It's nice to see a more hands-on approach to a technology we've otherwise left to the A/V club geeks.

Damon,

Re:Let's see it in action. (4, Informative)

FatalTourist (633757) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908830)

Live video mixing is nothing new. I've seen several shows with crazy live video, usually smaller name groups in clubs. VJ Central [vjcentral.com] has reviews of many different pieces of software that allow live mixing. Most of them allow routing of MIDI control (keyboard, knobs, sliders) to the software.
This device is cool because it gives video mixing the same feel as a turntable. Maybe the VJ will take center stage now instead of being hidden in the back

Re:Let's see it in action. (1)

Jeffery McGrew (541937) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909554)

Live video mixing is nothing new


You can say that again. The Emergency Broadcast Network were doing it over ten years ago, and AFAIK were the first to tie a MIDI control to Video. If you've never seen their stuff, I highly recommend it. Way ahead of thier time. I think you can still buy their video on Amazon.

You can see some of thier earlier clips here. [guerrillanews.com]

Not as good as their video, but still great for 1991(!)

Max Headroom (3, Funny)

saramakos (693903) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908640)

Scratching and looping? Sounds exactly like "Max Headroom" from the early 80s!

Re:Max Headroom (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909096)

The 80's? Max Headroom was and always will be 20 minutes in the future.

Oh no...think of what Lucas can do with this!!! (3, Funny)

Eberlin (570874) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908653)

Not only has he already re-edited his own stuff, imagine what he can do with DVD's of other people's movies!!! He'll frickin' P-Diddy his way back into the mainstream with remixes of The Sound of Music, Casablanca, and The Godfather.

It's not copyright infringement, it's sampling!!! Now a "meesa jar jar binks" is just about the same as an "uh huh yeah!"

Re:Oh no...think of what Lucas can do with this!!! (1)

glesga_kiss (596639) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909219)

Well, he wouldn't be the first. I've been following the trend of bootleg music for a while, where people make unauthorised versions of songs. Because they are not releasing commerically, they are "free" to sample pretty much anything. In the last year or so, this has become very popular, especially with the European commercial successes of 2manyDJs [allmusic.com] .

Many of them have also started to produce video. A couple of good ones that come to mind are Eclectic Method [eclecticmethod.net] and Cartel Communique (who's site is down). Well worth a look.

Final scratch (3, Informative)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908671)

Re:Final scratch (2, Informative)

nv5 (697631) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908787)

I like the FinalScratch approach, too - but it requires a computer. And there are surprisingly many people, who are more comfortable with dedicated hardware, like recording workstations, cd and dvd recorders etc.

So I think both approaches will be around for a while. By the way, I don't think FinalScratch can do video yet - or did I miss that on their site?

Re:Final scratch (1)

glubbs (526448) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908801)

Erm ... that's audio

Re:Final scratch (1)

Cryptnotic (154382) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908835)

The same concept should be able to map any linear data (audio, video, etc) to the track on the record.

Re:Final scratch (1)

glubbs (526448) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909481)

Kinda like Ms Pinky [mspinky.com] , if I'm correct.

Re:Final scratch (1)

Phork (74706) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909022)

I saw a product that was basically final scratch for audio at last years macworld SF. But instead working with sound into the computer, it had a small camera tpye device mounted at the end of the sytlus, and a special record with black and white squares on it. The software they were showing with it had it acting as a controller for quicktime. Unfortunatly i can't remember the name of the company.

Your .sig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909147)

Others gargle and spit! get it right!

4 Years. (-1)

DJ FirBee (611681) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908673)

I'd give it four years before this sort of thing is an absolute pop culture throughout cities in America. People will line up to see artists sync video/sound and lights live in their locations. I have no doubt about it whatsoever. Better get off my ass and check so that I can see it before it's bigger than mayonaise.

What's the point? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908675)

What exactly is the point of this?

FIRST! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908682)

First Post!

Important Stuff:
Please try to keep posts on topic.

Re:FIRST! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908861)

First Post!

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!

Fucking troll.

Coldcut's Natural Rhythm is a great example (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908697)

Staccato beats perfectly synchronized with footage of plant seeds exploding and such.

Revolutionary.... (5, Funny)

_Pinky_ (75643) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908715)

At least for my porn collection!

yum (3, Interesting)

highwaytohell (621667) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908762)

This thing looks awesome, any DJ would be drooling at the mouth over it. It gives them a chance to mix visuals as well as their turntabling. With a huge screen behind you and one of these babies you could mix your viinyl with some visuals. Its great to finally get something that is so hands on with video.

Re:yum (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909059)

well, im a dj, and i think i'd be more keen to leave the visuals to the visuals people, in the same way that they leave me to do the music side of things.. its cool, ubt i think its a big call to say "any dj would be drooling" - many will, but not all.

Re:yum (2, Insightful)

bugbread (599172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909764)

Except most DJs are probably pretty busy with their decks, and wouldn't have much time for a third video deck. What I can see, however, are DJs who want to try their hand at VJing using this as a smooth gateway (like Final Scratch is used as the gateway between Vinyl DJs and PCDJs).

Pioneer Ad (1)

ejaw5 (570071) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908869)

Can someone link a old Pioneer car audio tv commercial? It had some dude rockin' in his car on a shaking bridge Tacoma-Narrows style and after he realizes his stereo is causing the shaking he turns off his stereo and says "uh...sorry"

This wil not be as couls as it sounds (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908880)

Although I would love it to be cool video remix is just not that cool looking. People have been doing this for a long time with various systems and I have seen quite a few of them. I used to work for MTV back when they had a techno show (AMP) and they tried to mix video but it just didn't work. There was no way to match rythm and even if you could it just didn't look particularly intereting. It seemded like it would be cool and you wantedted it to be but it ended up have only slightly more novelty than Microsoft's clippy. I have also seen a few groups that tried it with more advance equipment in more recent years and it mad for a nice compliment to a music DJ but these guys used a bunch of short weird and distorted clips mixed with CG. It was cool but no one person could have done it. I am also not so sure scratching would go too well either. Mostly because one of the things about scratching is that music scratching is done by going back and forth over a sound thus creating a NEW rythm and tone. However, picturing someone going back and forth over video clips just conjures silly images that I would imagine could even be a little dizzying to watch. So while they might of solved some techinical hurdles I think the artistic side has a long way to come.

Re:This wil not be as couls as it sounds (1)

talnkyo (580248) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909667)

I see two possibilites to this, from an artistic standpoint. The first is, since music is abstract, you use abstract imagery. Kaleidoscopic designs and the like would be great to scratch, methinks.

The second is, many music videos have little bits where there is time distortion. Stuff like somebody walking backwards then forwards again for a split-second. In the video "Never Come Back Down", BT bluescreens a breakdancer being scratched over a normal scene. It's really quite impressive.

Re:This wil not be as couls as it sounds (1)

bugbread (599172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909777)

If you're using conventional subject matter (people, animals, etc.) then this is true, but if you're using prerendered digital art, abstractions, patterns, etc. it would probably work very well.

Re:This wil not be as couls as it sounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909806)

I loved amp, but not as much as I like the new Monster Video mix on MTV2, produced by Promo Only. They do beat mixing of videos (both Urban and Dance), not in real time, but they do use scratching of videos and I must say it does look good. I myself have used the new Pioneer DVJ-X1 and it is awesome.

what's next? (2, Insightful)

iammaxus (683241) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908883)

In the early days (the really early ones), manipulating text easily was a challenge for computers. Then images and sound were the next hurdle. Compression schemes were not standard and memory limitations limited the kind of things that could be done and prevented realtime editing. I have long been wondering when video will reach the stage that sound and image are in now. I didnt think it was any time soon, but apparently DVDs/mpeg2 allow some semblance of this realtime, free-form editing possible for the other medias. Now what really interests me is, what is next for computers to conquer (and yes i know video is hardly conquered yet)? 3d video? (and i dont mean stereo, i mean 3d recordings of entire rooms or people ie scifi "holo" displays) or is there something even more amazing that i cant think of...

How will it look.... (2, Interesting)

Flat Feet Pete (87786) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908889)

I'm not sure that the points that it makes sense to scratch audio at are appropriate for video wobbling at the same place. Most of the cool (coldcut etc.) previous stuff that people are mentioning, was small bits of video triggered rather than wobbling.

Woudln't mind a play though ;).

I'm interested to see if they come out with a mixer to support it.

Done before and again... (3, Interesting)

Sebastopol (189276) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908927)


A little history for you electronic arts folks who dig this stuff:

I did this same thing in 1989 using a Roland Alpha portable keyboard and MAX running on a Mac 2. Max was a great program for the Mac that let you graphically build a control system for any peripherals (almost like Labworks for MIDI/Appletalk). The scripte we wrote could queue video sequences by pressing a piano key, and you could scratch using the pitch wheel, turning it into a video jog wheel.

During the performance, three musicians would jam on midi instruments (drums, roland wind thingy and a guitar synth) and another program on MAX would improvise based on what we were playing. The video artist also stood on stage with the ROland Alpha, jamming with us and using a small monitor rather than facing the projection screen.

Technologically, it was HOT.

In practice, the music was a cacophony and the video didn't change fast enough to keep up.

Re:Done before and again... (4, Funny)

sakusha (441986) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908995)

Well that's nothing new. I attended an art history lecture where a professor described how the ancient Greeks used arrays of tinted glass with candles behind them, behind shutters activated by strings attached to a keyboard. They would take ergot to trip out, then listen to lyre concerts with freaky light shows.

Re:Done before and again... (2, Interesting)

Flat Feet Pete (87786) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909165)

If you're a max fan Pure Data [pure-data.org] may be worth a look. Similar concepts and open-source.

True home page is here [ucsd.edu]

How long - (2, Interesting)

ir0b0t (727703) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908957)

-until the image of an actor could be digitally sampled and then cast in a new movie? Like the commercials that use licensed images of Elvis or Humphrey Bogart to advertise contemporary products but an entire feature using a sampled image of Bogie that cannot be distinguished from images made from the actor. I see a whole new area of licensing and intellectual property battles. Then again, I'd love a chance to redo Star Wars Episode 1. The story just cries out for new casting. At least erase Jar Jar.

Scratching DVDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908976)

I actually found a device to do this much cheaper. Anything sharp works quite nicely. However, after I was done, the movie didn't play back the way I wanted it to. I even drew little arrows to point to which areas of the disk to go to in which order. However, it does seem to be blipping out more now... although it is skipping, but not as much as I intended. I'll probably have to buy a new DVD player for the scratching feature to work properly.

Quality (1)

vpscolo (737900) | more than 10 years ago | (#7908984)

Yeah but will it make modern music any better? Rus

EJ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7908987)

mixmusicvideo.com


This an optical encoder disk that you put on a turntable. Scratches video quite nicely. Works very well for mixing hip-hop music videos.


These kids are at Macworld in SF this week. Check them out.

So that's how he did it... (1)

mog007 (677810) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909011)

Remember in Batman Returns when Batman used a CD of the Penguin's private conversation against him by repeating one line over and over again by scratching a CD.

Region 2 (1)

blitzcat (69699) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909028)

The pictures indicate its limited to region 2 dvd's. And this isn't likely to be a product we get region free versions of from Asia. This seems limiting since DJing is largely sampling from a wide variety of sources, I would think it would be advantageous to show first release/current stuff from region one or (preferably) all regions.

This is HARDLY 'news for nerd' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909030)

and this only matters to a few hard-ware goobers too.

So, WHY are we being subjected to it again?

Great... (1)

Robber Baron (112304) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909049)

A machine that lets me make my own Purina Cat Chow commercials. Just what I needed.

Re:Great... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909311)

all the cats get funky now.

get...get,get meow meow

Emergency Broadcast Network! Remember them? (4, Interesting)

dietz (553239) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909061)

From the wired article:

Video scratching was pioneered by a U.S. multimedia crew called Emergency Broadcast Network in the late 1980s, and refined by Coldcut and Hex, a pair of U.K. collaborative multimedia producers and musicians.

Does anyone else remember EBN? They were sorta Negativland-ish music (later Negativland, that is... dispepsi-ish stuff that had a beat and wasn't as abstract as their earlier stuff) and had all these cool videos where they did video sampling.

Their live show was one of the coolest I've ever seen. They had three huge video screens behind the stage playing sampled video, and this this weird podium thing that had two arms... On the front of the arms were TVs with yet more sampled video, and then later in the show, they arms spun around and had lasers or something on the other side. This was a long time ago, so I don't remember exactly, but it was incredibly impressive. They had re-edited all this footage, so they had Connie Chung, Dan Rather, et al. saying "This is EBN Nightly News!" and stuff. They also had a real gun shooting blanks during "Shoot the Mac 10". I grabbed some of the bullets of the stage, and I think I still have them. Amazingly, they were just the opening act for Banco de Gaia, who I also like, but come on... Toby Marks (BdG) was just sitting at a mixing board. It didn't even compare.

You can find some of their videos [guerrillanews.com] around the net. We Will Rock You shows them re-working (elder) Bush speeches, similar to the Bushwhacked that's been floating around the net.

They also had this tricked out station wagon [audiovisualizers.com] with a satellite dish and video monitors all up and down the roof. It looked pretty cool, though I only saw pictures, not the real thing.

Later I saw them in "concert" opening for someone else, and they just played a video. I don't even think there was anyone from EBN there. It was totally disappointing.

Coldcut and Hex are cool, too, but I've never seen a show like the EBN one since.

Re:Emergency Broadcast Network! Remember them? (3, Informative)

YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT (651184) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909160)

Their live show was one of the coolest I've ever seen. They had three huge video screens behind the stage playing sampled video, and this this weird podium thing that had two arms... On the front of the arms were TVs with yet more sampled video, and then later in the show, they arms spun around and had lasers or something on the other side.

Yeah, EBN [wired.com] were an amazing band pioneering all this kind of stuff, and still going sadly unrecognised to this day ( tip: Telecommunications Breakdown is probably one of the best albums of the 90's, and had all this k00l multimedia shit bundled with it too ).

The swinging apparatus you described was also at some points mounted on the station wagon - it can be seen configured like this in the documentary Sonic Outlaws [imdb.com] , which is awesome, and first turned me on to EBN, Negativland and that style of music in general. Anyone with an interest in fair use rights should view this documentary, as it features extensive coverage of the Island Records / Negativland lawsuit.

YLFI

P.S. Am very jealous you were lucky enough to see them live.

Re:Emergency Broadcast Network! Remember them? (1)

Jeffery McGrew (541937) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909738)

Actually, you can still buy one of their best, the wonderful video they made.

click here [amazon.com]

Sometimes your local wierd video shop will have this for rent, too.

Last year I was trying to dig up more info on them, just to see what happened to 'em, and only found the main guy's home page, who's now some kind of big-wig Video guy running a company serving Ad firms or something. Full circle, huh?

video scratching (1)

kertong (179136) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909069)

Personally, I'm not a fan of "video scratching", as it seems too similar to scratching on LPs. (Or is it "bangin' on wax", as the kids call it).

But if you're interested in video scratching, check out Wave Twisters [wavetwiste...emovie.com] [http://www.wavetwisters-themovie.com/] - it's a "movie", all based on video-scratching to the beat of an album produced by DJ Quik, the scratch artist.

Pretty interesting to watch when you're stoned, I guess.

Re:video scratching (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909368)

ok :))
its dj Q-bert not Quick, the rooster not the bunny, and he is considered the best DJ in the world which, when you know about is career, is very hard to argue with. ;)
Wavetwister was entirely made out of skratches, the sounds, soundtracks and dialogues, not the video, it is built like it but isn't. And, well, yeah, probably that being stoned would help endure it but even if I'm a skratch whore I didn't appreciate.

The fact that you know about this movie is interesting though, it's nice to see a non-skratcher being aware of it...

DJ + Video Mix example (3, Interesting)

szyzyg (7313) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909090)

I've played with more than a few VeeJays in my time, there seems to be a huge range in the effort that the video people put in - some of them try to sync stuff up to the music, others just plug up a DVD player and let whatever they have play - usually hentai porn. Really the audio needs to be syncrhonised to the music activity.

I've been messing around with video for a long time, but I'm still really a DJ at heart, I figure that a good audio video show needs at least 2 people with one DJ + One Video performer. The DJ needs a mixer which can send MIDI events from it's knobs and faders allwing the videographer to slave effects and synchronise them to what the DJ is doing. Problem is any mixer which sends midi events is just plain lousy for DJ'ing right now.

Anyway, I figured that most Promoters these days just don't listen to mix CD's for very long, so I've started to work on the video approach to complement my demo packs - here's a little one I'm working on right now.

http://www.radiodmz.com/radiodmz_trailer.avi
(n eeds the XviD codec)
2 minutes of fast mixing and video effects - more of a commercial than a demo, but it's definately a step up from teh average video artist who plays Hentai porn over my DJ sets.....

Re:DJ + Video Mix example (1)

jasonfncsu (735876) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909174)

Not a big fan of the video FX... but I must say... it takes some balls to post a video of yourself dancing like that on /. It's like, uber-geeky! Heh.

Re:DJ + Video Mix example (1)

szyzyg (7313) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909279)

I'm a DJ - I'm used to dancing badly in public!

Three MC's (1)

Alphy (738951) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909103)

Turntables have come a long way since I remember them back in the 80's.

Old news. Nothing to see here. Move on. (0, Troll)

47Ronin (39566) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909119)

This sort of stuff was out years ago and even made a big splash at last year's Macworld Expo San Fransisco (Jan 2003)

Check out the product here [finalscratch.com]

Re:Old news. Nothing to see here. Move on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909400)

final skratch wasn't doing video back then and still isn't doing it, it plays audio files.

Re:Old news. Nothing to see here. Move on. (1)

47Ronin (39566) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909483)

My bad. I think I meant the EJ Turntable, from EJ Enterprises Worldwide. "...a retrofit that turns a turntable into a MIDI output device. The EJ Turntable retrofit works with other MIDI hardware and software, and with EJ ScratchTV software -- which lets you can scratch and mix with any QuickTime digital media -- including music videos."

Click for the turntable [ejenterprises.tv]

Emergency Broadcast Network (4, Informative)

MalachiConstant (553800) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909143)

While I have a generally low tolerance for "experimental" music, there's a band that used this kind of video mixing to make great music.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine went to a weird multimedia show at a club where they hung sheets up on the wall and did live video/music mixing. He bought their CD which had video mixes on it for about half the songs, I think.

Anyway they were called Emergency Broadcast Network. The album was Telecommunications Breakdown and it used clips from news broadcasts and infomercials. There's a very small clip from one of the songs one that album here [wired.com] . There also some better resolution clips of some of their other songs here [guerrillanews.com] , and a better resolution download of "Rock This Base" here [edinburgh-east-ssp.org] . I don't think any of those sons are as good as the stuff on Telecommunications Breakdown, but check it out, I'm not sure if that album is still available anywhere right now.

1000's of simultaneous epileptic fixs.. (1)

msimm (580077) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909163)

Just kidding. But this sounds like a the results of a late night drinking session with the engineering and marketing departments. Scratching is 'hot'. And visuals are hot. Scatching (um, jog) videos is NOT.

This [hothardware.com] is still more interesting [wired.com] to me.

Design oversight (3, Funny)

Comrade Pikachu (467844) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909171)

Let's see... LP's operate at 33.3 RPM.

DVD's rotate at 1400+ RPM.

I can picture earnest, stern-faced VJ's sucking on burnt fingertips. :-)

pffff ;) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909220)

I've been skratching a lot, a lot, I know and perform most standard moves and have a few of my own, I tried most Denon and Pioneer CD turntables, they suck, period. Anyone who is telling you that those things are adequate for skratching has never skratch in his life or believes that skratching only means moving the record back and forth like some nutcase.

I mean, honestly, you have to press a "skratch" button to be able to do basics like baby skratches and can't even hope to trow in a simple drag cause the algorythm simply is programmed to do a "swee" when you move the record.

there is one system that can let you skratch digital files adequately and its Stanton's FinalSkratch. The only reason it does it adequately is because you actually play with real records on real turntables (whichever you like, mines are SL1200MKII, the tanks!), the records you use simply contain an analog timecode not too much unlike FSK (remember that bugger?) which is maped to your files. I tried it and was simply amazed, truly, much like the first time I tried 2 SL1200MKII with a Vestax optical crossfader, amazed. I was able to do one hellish scribble (some call those really fast scribbles "uzi" so pick the name you whish) which I was cutting trough transformer style, the file never did even a hiccup, it just followed.

Video skratching has been a long time requested feature for final skratch, the developer seems to be serious in its intention of bringing it, we can just hope, because I really want to go the next level and skratch my movie samples but I'll wait for a real dj tool like final scratch not those cheesy inoperable anti-performance pseudo tables.

http://www.finalscratch.com/fs4/start.asp

Re:pffff ;) (1)

dmszero (654951) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909546)

i somehow dont think the dvd-cdj thingy is intended for turntable battles ;) although itd be funny for style points to not only perform a perfect juggle, but do it so the video flows as well :P dms0

160 man years development time (1)

lub (188080) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909283)

According to this forum [pioneerprodjforums.com] (contains some specs as well!) "it took 40 engineers 4 years to develop this." Exhaustive testing, i guess :P.

um, video art? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909396)

This is nothing new. Just a commercialization of what video artists have been doing since the 70's. Video mixing/performance is at least as old as the Amiga. Video art goes as far back as the sony porta pack. I certainly would not give any credit to MTV and its vapid brood.

how useless! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7909602)

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What kind of retard would use that shit, and for what purpose? No that purpose sucks. Shutup, ass.

VJamm from Ninja Tune (1)

rjhacker (738783) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909720)

Ninja Tune released video scratching software called VJamm in 2000, for Windows. It's not free, but there's a free demo you can download and play with. It's fun, especially for Coldcut fans; the examples provided are mostly Coldcut songs.

VJamm Demo [ninjatune.net]

Pixlet? (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 10 years ago | (#7909786)

This sounds like what the Quicktime codec Pixlet [apple.com] can do. The WWDC keynote [apple.com] by Jobs showed him "scrubbing" back and forth through a full-size Nemo video with, supposedly, no skipping nor visible artifacts.
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