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Novell Not Pushing Ximian Onto SuSE

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the natural-progression dept.

SuSE 230

dhunley writes "According to TechCentral, a recent story on Novell's plans following the acquisition of both SuSE and Ximian comments that 'SuSE will continue (to operate) as a business unit of its own', according to John Phillips, Novell's corporate technology strategist for the Asia Pacific region. 'We don't expect to make Ximian the default user interface, and for the medium term KDE will remain the default GUI on SuSE Linux'."

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GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

GNAA Lysol (736129) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954694)

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Re:GNAA FP (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954710)

TIMECOP IS A CHILD MOLESTER

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954715)

CONGRATULATIONS LYSOL, YOU DO NOT FAIL IT!

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate the parent post up.

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954766)

Ximian on SuSE. What is it all about... is it good, or is it whack?

** NEWSFLASH ** (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954798)

I've just finished downloading Gay Niggers From Outer Space and will watch it this evening. I will then proceed and apply for membership in your fine organization.

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Re:GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954898)

The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan demand you cease your obnoxious crapflooding of Slashdot immediately. Should you continue with your behavior, you will face severe consequences.

You will comply.

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954963)

Try to stop me. The KKK doesn't have any say in Germany. Better shut up or you'll get a nice visit from the Waffen-SS.

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955072)

Teh WaffLe-ss HaS nO SAY in THE U N I T E D S T A T E S of B I N L A D E N

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954989)

KKK on GNAA. What is it all about... is it good, or is it whack?

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955005)

Good morning. My name is Simonigger, and I am gay.

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955076)

The Young Democrats Club demands you cease your obnoxious crapflooding of the GNAA's crapflooding of Slashdot immediately. Should you continue with your behavior, you will face severe consequences. Like our foot in your ass.

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955119)

Sweet baby Jesus on a stick! I have never seen such a useless string of offensive postings!

Good work!

Re:GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955152)

ye olde outhouses!!!!111

DONGS (-1, Offtopic)

Sarojin (446404) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954695)

DONGS (FP)

The only good nigger (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954701)

is a bombed nigger!

Re:The only good nigger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955201)

I is a-getting bombed on da weed, man!

Novell showing wisdom (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954708)

No point trying to merge by force. Novell understands you can't take two things, and make them come together by force. I figure that eventually Novell will have SUSE using Ximian, but it won't be immediate. They may have made some bad decisions in the past, but Novell has learned.

Re:Novell showing wisdom (2, Insightful)

VP (32928) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954840)

Especially with the recent announcements [slashdot.org] of improved integration between KDE and Gnome, they may be able to do this in the future with little or no effort.

Re:Novell showing wisdom (4, Interesting)

Rich (9681) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954939)

You've misunderstood the integration work. The effect is in fact the total opposite. The work means they can use KDE for most things and cherry pick any apps they want from Ximian and they will integrate nicely into the desktop. That said, we (KDE) aren't standing still, so the number of apps they choose to do this for is likely to me small.

Re:Novell showing wisdom (1)

Ralph Yarro (704772) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954983)

The work means they can use KDE for most things and cherry pick any apps they want from Ximian and they will integrate nicely into the desktop

Or they can focus on developing for Gnome with the knowledge that their work will integrate relatively well into KDE for those users that want it anyway.

Seriously, you can take the integration as a pro either way so why strain to make it a win for 'your team'?

Re:Novell showing wisdom (5, Funny)

aml666 (708712) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954863)

Just like AOL incorporated Netscape into it's... no wait aminute.

Re:Novell showing wisdom (4, Interesting)

codejester (589238) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954892)


Agreed. It is interesting (to me anyway) to note this [novell.com] bit of news of Novells front page.

So close... (0, Troll)

t0ny (590331) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954955)

Linux just missed getting a real Network Operating System by a *very* slim margin.

VERY good news: if you are Microsoft!

Ximian... (5, Funny)

Unnngh! (731758) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954712)

Once they merge, we can finally see S-imian, the new user-friendly desktop monkey butler!

Re:Ximian... (1)

Dreadlord (671979) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954814)

I highly doubt that Ximian and SuSE can merge, you know, monkeys do eat chameleons when hungry.

That'll be the best thing since... (2, Funny)

siskbc (598067) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955045)

Once they merge, we can finally see S-imian, the new user-friendly desktop monkey butler!

...MS Bob. Wonder if they can hire Melinda Gates as a consultant?

capital letters (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954717)

'We don't expect to make Ximian the default user interface, and for the medium term KDE will remain the default GUI on SuSE Linux'

12 capital letters in one sentence. The grammar gods will bow down to you.

In short (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954730)

They don't want to make a shitty distro worse.

It's true. (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954735)

Hand in hand with *BSD, Novell is a dead man walking. Look at the market share decrease they suffered over the past 10-15 years. It's a wonder their Board of Directors hasn't started pacing down the Green Mile yet.

Re:It's true. (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954790)

Modded as 'Flamebait?' Yeah, right. Look at article like this one [computerweekly.com] . Novell's Netware went from a 70% market share about 10 years ago to a mere 4% last year. And that is predicted to drop to around 1.6% in another two years.

Who thinks that them grabbing the Linux life preserver will save them from the bottom of the NOS ocean? They will soon be swimming with the Banyans!

Sweet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954741)

"...and for the medium term KDE will remain the default GUI on SuSE Linux"

Sweet, so Ximian Gnome will most likely be built the SuSE default sometime in the future. Sign me up!

Re:Sweet - Is it? (2)

ospirata (565063) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955030)

I don't feel the same way about this long-term transition to Ximian, from SuSE. SuSE is my distro since version 5, and one of the main reasons is like it is it's KDE-centric stile. Besides, SuSE is one of the main sponsors at th KDE League. I don't like the way things are going between Novel, Ximian and SuSE.

Nothing new for middle term (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954744)

Well what do you expect? You really think Novell is ready to actually do anything? They are probably currently revamping the whole company, working hard on getting thier services completly linux integrated, and figuring out what the hell they still want and need to do.

Dont expect anything revolutionary from Novell in the middle term. In the long term, expect suse to disappear into novell completly and have a really tightly integrated set of OS+Services+GUI.

Re:Nothing new for middle term (5, Insightful)

lcde (575627) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955003)

Or expect Suse to be the 'fedora' while a Novell Linux becomes an Enterprise Edition.

Balance (5, Interesting)

shapiros (681380) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954749)

I think the biggest problem companies have in making linux profitable is how to mix free software with software you have to buy, and how to make the user comfortable with their choices. The problem is that it is hard for them to justify buying something when it is freely available.

Re:Balance (4, Interesting)

inode_buddha (576844) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955017)

Maybe that's why IBM Global Services [note emphasis] has already recouped IBM's initial (1 billion USD in Y2K) investment in Linux. And now they're gaining.

Re:Balance (5, Insightful)

Pionar (620916) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955035)

The problem is that it is hard for them to justify buying something when it is freely available.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I'm not saying it isn't true for most companies, I just think it's not true for all. Redhat has made a good run at it. The thing a purchaser has to look at is not the OS by itself, which one can get for free, but the features that the company adds on to it, such as Redhat's RPM service and the user-friendly Anaconda installation system, both of which are open, but are in limited use by other distros. (I believe Yellowdog, or whatever it's called, the Linux for Mac processors, is the only other distro to use Anaconda). That ease of installation alone made me pop out the $30 for the boxed version of RH 8.0 when I went hunting for my first Linux installation.

Other companies that incorporate Linux into their service offerings, such as IBM, use Linux as a baseline for their services, so that you're not paying for Linux, you're paying for IBM's services.

I would be led to think that Novell's main channel of pushing the SuSe product would be through Novell's own consulting business, where SuSe Linux would be a value-added service, not the main dish. So, in other words, you wouldn't be ordering Linux with a side of Novell, you'd be ordering Novell with a side of Linux.

Love Hate With Novell (4, Insightful)

SirChris (676927) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954756)

I have always loathed working with Novell, in a business environment just because it complicated most things. Everything works easily on Windows but on novell well there were all these extra steps or dead-ends. When I heard someone had novell I cringed. Now, however, it would seem I'm hoping people end up with novell linux so I can do the linux side of things I could never do before. So I really did used to hate it but now I'm wishing for it.

Re:Love Hate With Novell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954802)

It's a hate-hate relationship when it comes to GroupWise. It's got to be one of the worst email clients in the world, yet it's quickly becoming a mainstay of the corporate groupware environment(unless they are using MS products exclusivly).

Re:Love Hate With Novell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955255)

> " It's got to be one of the worst email clients in the world, yet it's quickly becoming a mainstay of the corporate groupware environment(unless they are using MS products exclusivly).

Mainstay? Hardly. The retention rate for GroupWise is pretty bad (IDG estimates that it's lost 45 percent of its userbase in the last two years); that's why Novell abandoned plans to center its offerings around GroupWise and instead are trying to transition to Linux. GroupWise is indeed a dead man walking.

Re:Love Hate With Novell (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954866)

Obviously, then, you and your business cared nothing for security, open standards, interoperability, stability, reliability, scalability, and high performance.

None of these things come with the "Windows ease of use" that you so love.

They all come standard with Novell products.

Re:Love Hate With Novell (2, Insightful)

diersing (679767) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955146)

I realize that is the Slashdot Correct thing to say, but it still seemed a blantant MS Bash (and promoted to "informative" to boot, tsk tsk).

I work and have worked in MS shops that were secure, stable, reliable, scalable and ran high performance/high demand database (SQL) and web (IIS) services to its financial customers.

I don't fault your POV, but MS has improved its responsiveness and I almost seperate Windows 2003 Server from its previous offerings because its more Linux like - disabled by default approach.

I think the acquisition of SuSE and Ximian are great moves for Novell, but I also think they're competing more with RH and IBM then MS at this point.

Re:Love Hate With Novell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955151)

that reminds me of when I was in high school, and the had a Novell security login in order to access the computer, but CTRL-BREAK would drop you to the dos prompt to do as you saw fit.

so much for security back then

Good (5, Interesting)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954764)

As a loyal SuSE user, I'm happy because KDE default appeals to me (mostly cause its a more mature project). Sure, its a couple clicks during install to switch, but its good that Novell looks at the SuSE crowd and keeps SuSE like it always has been.

Of course, YMMV.

Re:Good (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954824)

If you read the article you would see that this isnt only about KDE. None of the products are being changed in the middle term.

Novell just isnt ready yet to start doing major modifications till other parts of the company catch up.

If after the big modifications KDE is still the default, then you could say that novell is doing this because of the Suse crowds etc... but till then, expect change...

Re:Good (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954836)

Sure, its a couple clicks during install to switch,

...except that it does not work. Try installing any recent version of SuSE without KDE and without Qt, and it will have problems during the installation. Even if you select a GNOME system while installing SuSE, it will insist on installing some KDE libs, Qt, arts and many other things. While you can install a KDE system without GTK+, SuSE does not let you install a GNOME system without Qt. Why?

Re:Good (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954940)

> SuSE does not let you install a GNOME system without Qt. Why?

Likely because SuSE's admin tool, Yast, uses the Qt libraries for its GUI front-end. Yes, you can run Yast in text-mode, but Qt gets installed anyway.

Re:Good (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955000)

While you can install a KDE system without GTK+, SuSE does not let you install a GNOME system without Qt. Why?

Because the graphical front-end for YaST, SuSE's multipurpose configuration tool, is based on Qt?

I'd be surprised if SuSE were to drop KDE at any point in the near future, since a lot of their stuff is extremely well integrated. Have a look in KControl, and there's all the YaST modules there, correctly themed and everything. There's the SuSE HelpCentre, which is KDE's help system but for everything that has HTML documentation. If you install or remove something through YaST, KDE's menus and file associations get updated as appropriate.

Last time I checked, a lot of this behaviour is in packages which can be removed if you want a 'vanilla' KDE, but I've left everything there because it's genuinely useful.

Oh, and a pretty normal SuSE installation installs the GNOME support libraries as well, because a fair number of applications use them. It's hardly a conspiracy. :)

Re:Good (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955054)

However, YaST modules in KControl don't work right if they need to run as root (read: all YaST modules). I've found that it won't accept keyboard input on YaST via KControl with YaST run as root. (8.2 FTP edition)

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955126)

I've found that it won't accept keyboard input on YaST via KControl with YaST run as root. (8.2 FTP edition)

I was thinking that there must be something wrong with your system, so I checked myself. And the keyboard doesn't work. This is 9.0 from FTP, upgraded from 8.1 (retail). I'm surprised I haven't noticed before...

I'm off to report a bug. Wish me luck. :-)

Re:Good (1)

uchian (454825) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955097)

I thought the Suse configuration tools where KDE-based. In the same way that Mandrake needs gtk in an otherwise "pure" kde system for it's configuration tools?

Re:Good (5, Informative)

rsax (603351) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955101)

While you can install a KDE system without GTK+, SuSE does not let you install a GNOME system without Qt. Why?

Because YaST requires KDE libs.

Too bad. GNOME support in SuSE could be improved (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954773)

I am sad to see that SuSE will not have to improve their support for GNOME. SuSE has great features in their distribution, but their support for GNOME has been constantly lagging behind others. I was hoping that by being encouraged to put Ximian as the default desktop, their support for GNOME would improve.

I am trying to set up all my systems without Qt (I don't mind KDE, but I don't want Qt and for the moment this means no KDE either). Unfortunately, all basic GNOME libs in SuSE depend on Qt (same for the basic X11 setup). This problem has existed since 7.2, I think. Ignoring the dependencies gives me a working system anyway, but I hope that they will fix this soon. I had high hopes when I saw Novell acquiring both Ximian and SuSE, but it looks like I will still have to wait a bit...

Re:Too bad. GNOME support in SuSE could be improve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954830)

There are lot of distributions which lack good KDE support. Why should everybody provide excellent support for everything? Resources are limited to achive this.

Why no QT? (5, Informative)

sflory (2747) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954857)

QT is open source and a good library. The only major issue is that it's GPL instead of LGPL like GTK. Depending on your view not being able to link comerial apps for free may be a good thing.

Re:Why no QT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954911)

You can link commercial apps to Qt for free. You just need to distribute those commercial apps under the GPL.

Similarly, if you develop closed-source non-commercial software, you can't use the free version of Qt.

Re:Why no QT? (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955080)

QT is open source and a good library.

Sure, but why should you be forced to install a library if none of the apps you're installing actually use it? I can't speak for the original poster, but that's certainly why I don't have Qt installed (although I have had in the past, and may again in the future). It does seem a bit odd to have SuSE's Gnome depend on Qt, if that's what's actually going on.

Re:Why no QT? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955087)

Depending on your view not being able to link comerial apps for free may be a good thing.

Yes, but these are not my views. I want to be able to develop commercial and non-commercial apps for free. Qt does not allow me to release closed-source applications for free, even non-commercial ones (i.e., something that is closed-source because of NDA on the hardware that it controls, but would otherwise be released as free-as-in-beer software). That's why I try to remove Qt from the systems that I install, in order to ensure that none of the members of my team develops something that links with it, even by accident. I don't want to get into legal troubles later. There is more to it than simple philosophical choices.

Re:Too bad. GNOME support in SuSE could be improve (2, Insightful)

sorrodos (693108) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954895)

I don't believe that if GNOME support would really "improve" if SuSE switches to GNOME as a default. In fact, that would only make me worry for the health of KDE. GNOME is already the default on RedHat/Fedora, so it has a major player backing it. And with the decision of Perens to use GNOME with the upcoming UserLinux, GNOME will probably pick up a good amount of additional development, especially if UserLinux succeeds where its meant to: the corporate environment.

Re:Too bad. GNOME support in SuSE could be improve (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954899)

death to gnome and all gnome users.

that piece of shit will never make it on to any of my systems.

When can we see Netware replaced with Linux (4, Informative)

PhilippeT (697931) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954774)

now that's something I want to see soon. That way those moronic teachers at my college will have to learn Linux or stop telling the world that Netware is the safest and most used Network platform.

Re:When can we see Netware replaced with Linux (2, Interesting)

CoolCash (528004) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955012)

This was just a rumor from my Netware guru friends, but I believe when version 7.0 of Netware comes out they will have an option of using a Netware or Linux Kernel. Then after 7.0 will be linux only. Novell just released there Nterprise Linux Services, which gives a lot of the current functionality of Netware on Linux

More In Depth Article (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954779)

Interestingly enough, a few days ago, I was roaming around on Yahoo! [yahoo.com] and found this much more in depth article [yahoo.com] about Novell's plans for Ximian. A solid read with some good insights about where Novell was headed with their purchase of Ximian and some of their future plans for SuSE.

MOD PARENT UP!!! INFORMATIVE!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954838)

What fucking system abuse by some Windoze fag mod. This article has some serious info about Ximian, SuSE, and Linux in general. Mod this shit up.

This is a good thing (3, Informative)

GeckoFood (585211) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954784)

'SuSE will continue (to operate) as a business unit of its own'

I hope so. I have seen Novell buy and ruin several software packages. Probably the most notable (in my memory) was WordPerfect. WP was not as good as it should have been to start with, but it was awful after Novell got done with it.

Another was DR-DOS. DR-DOS never really recovered from Novell's influence (which was before Windows 95 came out, so there was time to undo the damage).

The idea of Novell owning SuSE makes me uneasy. Right now, I like SuSE - been my distro for a while. Might have to change distros, however, if Novell starts playing with it.

Re: Suse and ximian (0, Redundant)

sloanster (213766) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954789)

I seem to remember that suse was making a deal with ximian anyway - suse had been criticied for focusing only on KDE and having a crappy implementation of gnome.

Suse will probably keep kde as the preferred desktop, but will offer a ximian gnome alternative as well.

What does it really mean? (4, Interesting)

El Cubano (631386) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954823)

I understand that it is probably good for Novell to not rock the boat too much rught away. But, can someone with a little more market savvy explain what is in Novell's best interest in the long run? Give the users lots of choices with loose integration? or eliminate some of those choices and work on more tightly integrated line?

Re:What does it really mean? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954935)

what is in Novell's best interest in the long run?

What does it matter? We are all dead in the long run.

Re:What does it really mean? (2, Funny)

Ralph Yarro (704772) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955067)

But, can someone with a little more market savvy explain what is in Novell's best interest in the long run?

In the long run they should use [favored desktop] and ONLY [favored desktop]. The [other dekstop] is light years behind technologically and is only supported by trolls and zealots. [Favored dekstop] is so fast now it's amazing, I installed the latest beta the other day and I was amazed how fast it ran. It's also so stable now. And the default theme is just beautiful. Not like [other desktop] which is just eye candy. Yes, [favored desktop] has had its problems but it's way past them now. EVERYONE I know or have ever heard of uses [favored desktop] anyway, there's no point in supporting anything else.

Re:What does it really mean? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955079)

I work in a IT department for a School District. We have tained Novell staff, myself included. We have 20+ Novell servers spread amoung 7 sites. This is the new Novell. This isn't the Novell from 10 years ago. Novell is ALL about CHOICE. They tried the "push our superior networking services on our proprietary system" and it didn't work. The last 2 years Novell has been shifting from a proprietary OS to multiplatform services.

Novell Directory Services (MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Active Directory), ZenWorks (You have no idea how great this product is uless you've installed a new software application on 2000 computers using it, add in imaging, remote workstation management, and much more), GroupWise and all there other services will run on NetWare, Linux, or Windows Server. Novell is about choice, expect to see the same in their Linux offerings. SuSE will become configurable to Ximian, but you will still have SuSE in it's current form. That's MHO.

Re:What does it really mean? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955123)

It means that Suse linux will now be a completely EGA distribution and that it will run Netware IP.

That's what it means.

Re:What does it really mean? (1)

IA-Outdoors (715597) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955143)

This means nothing in the short term. See, the Novell executives need to really understand what Ximian is bringing to the table and figure out a strategy for integration that will keep SuSE customers happy yet leverage some of the great products from Ximian. Simply put, the executives aren't trying to change things overnight, they'd be dumb to try to. Instead, they are going to take their time before making any substantial changes so that they can ensure the changes they do make will have a positive impact on their bottom line.

Things will change, just not right now. (4, Interesting)

osewa77 (603622) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954828)

Paraphrasing Some Quotes:
'We don't expect to make Ximian the default user interface, and for the medium term KDE will remain the default GUI on SuSE Linux.'
In other words, on the long term KDE will not remain the default GUI.
"Ximian, SuSE and Novell will continue to deliver projects to the community where it makes sense,"
In some cases where it is deemed not to make sense, Ximian, SuSE and Novell will no longer deliver such projects to the community.

Re:Things will change, just not right now. (1)

shadow303 (446306) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954922)

I think you are reading into it a bit too much. I would interpret that statement as saying the they might switch away from KDE in the long term, but that it is not set in stone.

Re:Things will change, just not right now. (2, Insightful)

Ralph Yarro (704772) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954934)

'We don't expect to make Ximian the default user interface, and for the medium term KDE will remain the default GUI on SuSE Linux.'

In other words, on the long term KDE will not remain the default GUI.


Correction: In the long term KDE may not remain the default GUI. This just isn't planned out yet and they'll see how the market and their products develop.

Re:Things will change, just not right now. (2, Insightful)

osewa77 (603622) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955052)

In all the ways that matter Ximian is "the gnome company". Check out some of their products [ximian.com] . Unless there's something I am missing, why would Novell acquire Ximian and not intend to have a Linux Desktop plan centred around Ximian Desktop?

Re:Things will change, just not right now. (4, Insightful)

Tack (4642) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954982)

'We don't expect to make Ximian the default user interface, and for the medium term KDE will remain the default GUI on SuSE Linux.' In other words, on the long term KDE will not remain the default GUI.

This is so frustrating. People do this all the time. Please, for the love of god people, take a course on critical thinking, or a discrete math course where boolean logic is taught.

Your words are not equivalent to what Novell has said. At best, you are making assumptions. Novell has not said what their long term plans are. They may set Ximian's desktop to be the default, or they may not. But you are simply plain wrong by saying "in other words ..."

Jason.

Re:Things will change, just not right now. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955061)

Logically, you are right. But most probably, osewa77 is right.

Re:Things will change, just not right now. (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955098)

It's not logically necessary what the parent poster said. But taking a realistic, cynical, read-between-the-lines view of Novell's announcement, it's a good bet that this is what it will mean.

If you know how to read corporate press releases, you know that what is unsaid is often as important as what is said, if not more so. While you can't say for 100% certainty what Novell has planned, it's a good bet that this is the direction they will take. Their statements left the door open for it, and it would be hugely harmful for them to make an definitive announcement before they are really ready to launch a working release version.

This is as ridiculous as it gets (4, Funny)

niom (638987) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955037)

'We don't expect to make Ximian the default user interface, and for the medium term KDE will remain the default GUI on SuSE Linux.'

In other words, on the long term KDE will not remain the default GUI.

This reminds me of the recent article on deconstruction where the author analyzed the affirmation "JFK was not a homosexual" to be a proof of the inherent homophobia in our society. But he was being absurd on purpose.

Re:This is as ridiculous as it gets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955106)

This reminds me of the recent article on deconstruction where the author analyzed the affirmation "JFK was not a homosexual" to be a proof of the inherent homophobia in our society. But he was being absurd on purpose.

So you're saying that JFK was a homosexual?

Sigh of Relief (4, Interesting)

Czernobog (588687) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954849)

considering the support and work SuSE put in KDE in the past, it'd be a shame to become Ximian-centric.
Now, all that's left is for SuSE to integrate with Ximian as well as it does with KDE. And then, well frankly, there will be no opponent to SuSE domination on desktops.

Now if only SuSE were to have a ports-like package management tool and taking NDS from Novell for granted, there will be no competition, from the Linux world or otherwise...

Anybodto ry know what's going on with UnitedLinux? (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954883)

The article says that things are still going as planned with UnitedLinux, mentioning the groups involved, including SCO. Not too long ago I switched from RedHat to SUSE 9 and (still) am all set to recommend the switch on our cluster at work from RH 7.3 to SUSE. I would hate to do that, only to find out that SCO will have something to say WRT any UnitedLinux installation.

Re:Anybodto ry know what's going on with UnitedLin (1)

PhilippeT (697931) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954964)

Dont know much about UL but if SCO is in it... why are they? Im sorry but shur they had/have a distro but that in my opinion doesnt cancel out the fact they are trying to destroy Linux?

I'll try SuSE (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954903)

once they upgrade from the 2.2 kernel. Anyone know a timeline on that?

Re:I'll try SuSE (1)

theblkadder (671343) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954945)

Ummm, they've been on the 2.4 for quite a while. SLES9 will be based on 2.6 (due out second quarter of this year.)

Re:I'll try SuSE (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954996)

I think you misspelled "Debian".

kde vs gnome (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954947)

I recently updated from BSD 4.6 to 4.9. On 4.6 I had both KDE and GNOME installed, and saw little difference between them, performance-wise.

However, with 4.9, GNOME 2.4 sucks ass. Right click on the desktop... 30 seconds later, a menu appears. the xterm app was unusable. start typing, text takes too long to appear. And don't try to move a window... it might take a minute or 2 for it to redraw. And now, galeon requires mozilla to be installed. Kind of defeats the purpose of a stand-alone gecko engine if you have to install mozilla, doesn't it?

KDE 3.1.4 took a while to start up after logging in, but was fully useable and just as snappy as Windows 2k on the same machine. I found the kermaric default window mgr theme to be ugly, though.

Anonymous Coward confirms it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955233)

On 4.6 I had both KDE and GNOME installed, and saw little difference between them, performance-wise.

However, with 4.9, GNOME 2.4 sucks ass.


BSD is dying.

Re:kde vs gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955246)

The latest version of BSD which I am aware of is 4.4-lite. Perhaps you are referring to FreeBSD?

The "merging" of GNOME and KDE (4, Informative)

digitect (217483) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954957)

Given the general efforts by freedesktop.org [freedesktop.org] and the like to improve interoperability between the two largest free desktops, isn't the so-called desktop war is really a mute point? Sure there are two complete systems, but even as a die-hard GNOME user myself, I still want all the KDE desktop available even if only to occasionally try out some KDE app or feature.

I think keeping both desktops as strong and competitive as possible is the best for all of us. In fact, my concern down the road is that through general merging of functionalities and core libraries (even allowing for C v. C++ differences), the whole thing may become one big homogenous effort prone to stagnation. (The wheel gets so big, it gets harder and harder for the community as a whole to re-work efficiencies or pursue dreams beyond current capabilities.)

Perhaps the (justified) business concern of trying to do too much without focus applies here, but why can't the KDE effort simply fork and find supporting funding if abandoned? If the demand is there, no one business can ever kill off Free Software. Maybe how Novell decides to treat KDE (or Ximian) really doesn't have as big an impact as we think. Does corporate funding really prove to be the most significant factor in a desktop's success or effectiveness?

Re:The "merging" of GNOME and KDE (1, Informative)

The One KEA (707661) | more than 10 years ago | (#7954985)

Don't forget smaller window managers like XFce, IceWM, and even FVWM. If KDE or GNOME start to bloat or stagnate or become unsuitable, then I'm sure the three window managers I just mentioned might just see an increase in users.

And that doesn't count all the other window managers out there as well.

Re:The "merging" of GNOME and KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955111)

mute point
Sorry, pet peeve. The phrase is "moot point". [wsu.edu]

Experts in both camps (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954986)

What this means is that Novell will have experts in developing for both KDE and Gnome desktops.

This makes good sense for them at this point. If one ends up winning over the other in "market share" the will adapt easily. If both keep having a good following of users, they still win.

Novell wants Mono and RedCarpet (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7954993)

I saw Novell's CTO speak at a conference after this announcement and he specifically pointed out that Novell wanted Mono and RedCarpet when they bought Ximian. Sure, there are tons of other reasons why you would want to own and work with Ximian, but those two seemed to be the main point.

The SuSE acquisition was slightly different. They want to port the Netware server functionality to Linux in the short term and possibly replace Netware in the long term. However, they are not creating a Redhat clone company. They intend to make money the old-fashioned way... by licensing enterprise software.

Honestly. (3, Interesting)

gregarican (694358) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955051)

This isn't a troll attempt, but other than Directory Services, what has Novell introduced or enhanced that was so revolutionary?

I recall working on native Novell products about 10 years ago don't relish back in the day of creating and managing Netware 2.x or 3.x user accounts on each server (with each server requiring its own login authentication). When Micro$loth introduced the NT domain model that raised the bar significantly for NOS'es. Following that Novell came out with Directory Services. That was the first and seemingly last great advance that they made.

As is echoed in other posts on this topic, most of Novell's headlines have involved mismanaging acquisitions. WordPerfect, UNIXWare, ad nauseum. I am almost afraid to see what becomes of the Linux companies they will be absorbing into their quagmire.

Look at how they could take a stable, logical product like NetWare and fail to market it effectively enough to grab what it deserved. They finally moved beyond unstable NLM's crashing and core dumping but what new customers noticed?

Re:Honestly. (3, Insightful)

The One KEA (707661) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955114)

The nature of OSS and the GPL mean that if SuSE start to go downhill or include crapware and bloat and other junk that no one wants, then the community will take the SuSE source code and start a new distro - the name "NeuSE" comes to mind for such a project.

But I doubt that will happen - corporate memory can last a long time, and hopefully Novell has learned from their mistakes in the past and will try their best to keep SuSE as autonomous as possible. I'm sure the art and branding of SuSE will change, but if the execs at Novell have learned any lesson, let's hope they learned not to mess with a good thing.

Re:Honestly. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7955121)

ZenWorks: Desktop imaging, Application Distribution, Remote Management and more, all integrated directly with NDS/eDirectory

eDirectory: the current iteration of NDS. It is really a lot more robust than Active Directory. Especially when it comes to servers across slow connections. NDS Partitioning is a lot better than Active Dirctorie's foresting.

OpeneXchange Server (3, Insightful)

23skiddoo (31460) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955141)

My worry is that SuSE will be stong-armed into dropping OpeneXchange Server in favor of Novell's own groupware suite....

I've said it before (2, Informative)

rsax (603351) | more than 10 years ago | (#7955241)

And I'll say it again,

"Ximian, SuSE and Novell will continue to deliver projects to the community where it makes sense," he said.

The first sign that I see of Novell trying to pull a Redhat Fedora on us SuSE users I'm going to switch to Debian for good. I know I'm probably reading too much into this but I can't help it, I'm cynical by nature and when I first read about SuSE being acquired by Novell that was the first thing that crossed my mind. And still does. I should probably look into what kind of effort would be required to maintain a some what custom Debian release of my own based on stable but with newer packages from testing or unstable. That was the main reason why I originally went with SuSE, stable releases with more recent packages. Otherwise it would be Debian all the way.

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