Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

No WMA for HP iPod

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the acronym-soup dept.

Media (Apple) 484

finelinebob writes "In spite of Paul Thurrott's wishful thinking, Wired is reporting that HP will not support the WMA format in its version of the iPod. From the article, according to HP spokesperson Muffi Ghadial, "'We're not going to be supporting WMA for now ... We picked the service that was the most popular (Apple's iTunes Music Store). We could have chosen another format, but that would have created more confusion for our customers.' He added, 'Most customers don't care about the format they're downloading.'" Thurrott's singing a different tune lately, anyway...."

cancel ×

484 comments

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965405)

fp for allah

allah -- what's he all about? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965556)

is he good, or wack ???

Re:fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965558)

WMA. What is it all about... is it good, or is it whack?

Idea (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965586)

Wouldn't it be awesome if the Muslims and Christians could just duke it out by making FPs on Slashdot instead of war?

A fake... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965407)

The original article was obvious bougus.

Too bad (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965409)

iWas looking forward to it.

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965410)

fp w00t w00t

Re:fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965465)

You fucking fail it, biter! haha

Is Apple or Microsoft forcing HP to do this? (5, Interesting)

Eyah....TIMMY (642050) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965414)

I wonder if Microsoft is threatened HP to restrict the Windows and Office licenses if they made a player that could play WMA and ACC.

Not too long ago, they were threatening Dell of not giving them Windows licenses if IE wasn't the only browser in new computers... here's a /. article around that subject [slashdot.org] . Well, I hope that's no surprise to anyone. Although M$ does make good products (and I don't mean to start a whole debate here) they have a tendency to use their monopoly to force products.

I also wonder if Apple restricted HP from supporting WMA? Yes, Apple does these kind of things [chaosmint.com] too!

Eh, a war of monopolies! They've just found common grounds to fight on...

Apple has the right to do this... (5, Interesting)

Fortunato_NC (736786) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965478)

It's HP licensing Apple's technology and manufacturing capability, not the other way around. Apple has the right to support whatever file formats it wants (and can pay license fees for, if appropriate). It also has the right to determine what formats WON'T be played on its devices.

If HP wants to demand WMA support, and Apple doesn't want to budge, HP can spend the R&D dollars to build its own portable music player.

This isn't a Bad Thing. This is a company acting in what it feels are its best interests.

Re:Is Apple or Microsoft forcing HP to do this? (3, Insightful)

nate1138 (325593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965606)

Eh, a war of monopolies! They've just found common grounds to fight on...

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Seriously, how do you figure apple as a monopoly on anything?

Re:Is Apple or Microsoft forcing HP to do this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965669)

Or Microsoft for that matter.

the reason (4, Funny)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965416)

They didn't want to limit their customers' choices.

Re:the reason (5, Funny)

hummer357 (545850) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965573)

wow...

anybody actually read the first article?

talk about being superfanboy! ;-)

some quotes:
- "Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio format " (ehm... yeah)
- "Portable Media Center Devices Will Blow You Away" (wha? no it won't!)
- "Predictable Open-Source Advocates Decry Microsoft Anti-Linux Ads" (this on't a bit like those old beatles records... play it backwards, and you get the *real* hidden message!)

and this one is the best of the lot:
- "Jobs's Disappointing Macworld Keynote Address Makes Even Gates Look Good"
(okay, so maybe Jobs is boring, he always is, but making Gates LOOK GOOD? Paul? ya smokin' crack?)

well,

h357

Re:the reason (0, Redundant)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965607)

So they dont want to limit their customers choices. And they do this by limiting the number of file types they support?

Re:the reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965675)

you wouldn't know a funny comment if it bit you on the ass.

Unfortunate (1, Interesting)

exhilaration (587191) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965418)

HP appears to be more interested in iTunes than the iPod. They could radically expand their reach if they supported WMA and the various online music stores that are popping up.

Re:Unfortunate (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965517)

They could radically expand their reach if they supported WMA and the various online music stores that are popping up.

....or they could adopt a standard that has a better chance of being implemented on most/all consumer level operating systems (e.g. WMA w/DRM for Linux? never). HP also gets the benefit of working with a DRM system that the majority seem to prefer. I don't see how this is unfortunate at all...but I'm sure someone will reply with a different view!

Re:Unfortunate (2, Interesting)

Englabenny (625607) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965572)

Are you sure about that? Supporting WMA playback is one thing. Supporting each different DRM version of WMA from each of the different (and in comparison very small) music stores is completely a different thing.

But... (5, Funny)

paul248 (536459) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965419)

Jeez, whatever happened to WMA being superior?

Re:But... (0)

tfcdesign (667499) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965459)

Beta was superior but nobody cared. VHS won.

Re:But... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965484)

Perhaps in terms of video quality, but VHS allowed longer taping.

Stop it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965551)

This is false on almost every count.

Beta lost because originally it didn't support 2-4-6 hour recording. There was no significant difference in quality.

So please. Stop repeating this utter nonsense.

Re:But... (4, Insightful)

David_Bloom (578245) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965646)

Beta lost because SONY refused to allow pornography to be released on Beta when they first released the format (I think they changed this later). :)

Re:But... (2, Insightful)

krog (25663) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965494)

In my experience AAC is superior to WMA (and they're both superior to MP3). Where the comment in the /. article of a few days ago about the "superior WMA format" came from, I'll never know (but I'm guessing Redmond).

Re:But... (2, Informative)

Fuzzle (590327) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965525)

It came from Paul Thurrott [winnetmag.com] .
Exclusive: HP Working to Get WMA on iPod
HP's blockbuster deal with Apple will have one exciting side effect, I discovered today. The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year. You heard it here first.
and apparently you heard wrong!

Thank goodness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965421)

Because I was really concerned about Windows losing control of the market, and thus depriving me of choice, because Windows is all about choice [slashdot.org] .

Re:Thank goodness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965594)

Yes, it's lucky they embraced the pro-"choice" vision of Apple. One store, one player, and one portable. All those icky choices with WMA were just.....not choice. Or something. M$ 5U>0R5!

Disappointed (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965422)

I had such high hopes that Florina and the DEC research lab would be smarter than this.

It is paramount that their IPOD-like device support WMA files as this the clear majority of the available files on Windows-based computers, especially KaZZaa and ByteTorrent. If it was WMA, one would just flip it in and Bob's your uncle.

Please, if any HP marketing person is reading this forum, please re-assess your permuations!

Silly (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965444)

The iPod supports MP3, which is 99.999 percent of the files that people actually *use*.

Re:Silly (1)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965593)

The iPod supports MP3, which is 99.999 percent of the files that people actually *use*.

Not true. But why should Apple support MS anyway?

Re:Silly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965663)

Really? What format do people actually use?

"Used" being defined as "loaded onto their music players and/or stored on hard drive of PC.

Re:Disappointed (4, Insightful)

krog (25663) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965578)

I had such high hopes that Florina and the DEC research lab would be smarter than this.

Carly Fiorina is smart in the business sense; that is, she is the kind of unbelievable bastard CEO who votes herself a $150,000,000 bonus then lays 6,000 people off to "cut costs". In technological matters she is a fool.

The DEC research lab of old is dead. Don't expect too much.

WMA == lock in (5, Interesting)

sterno (16320) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965588)

I can't figure out why Apple would ever want to support WMA. If they support WMA, then it's just one more reason for people to buy Microsoft over Apple, or anything else.

Once again we see the Microsoft monopoly extending it's grasp. They create WMA and then they set it up so that the built in CD-ripping in Windows will default to using WMA. Most people end up ripping in that format, not knowing any better. Then that becomes the standard for these files.

If that's the standard, then Microsoft can choose to enforce it however they want. They can alter licensing, build in whatever DRM restrictions they want, and since it's the standard everybody has to play ball.

Lock in? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965658)

Apple doesn't make money on the iTMS. It would behoove them to support as many formats as possible on their portable player.

As well, iTMS is an even narrower lock-in, since the DRM wrapped AAC files don't play on anything other than an iPod or iTunes. YES YOU CAN BURN AND RE-RIP AND DEGRADE THE SOUND, we fucking know that, but that's an annoyance, and WMA can be circumvented the same way, or used directly with 5+ players, 10+ stores, and 30+ portables.

WMA support on iTunes or iPod could only help Apple.

Re:WMA == lock in (2, Interesting)

anthony_philipp (710666) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965666)

the default for iTunes is AAC riping. so you could make the same point.

Would they consider ogg vorbis and or flac? (1, Insightful)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965423)

Hey, they could run these formats....might give them an edge on the iPod...best of both worlds.

I think there is a significant enough crowd that cares about formats, that would make it worthwhile...

Re:Would they consider ogg vorbis and or flac? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965457)

Well, somebody had to say it.

Re:Would they consider ogg vorbis and or flac? (5, Insightful)

molafson (716807) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965483)

The answer to this question, time and time again that it is posed on Slashdot, is a resounding "No." It makes no sense economically for Apple to support those formats, despite whatever you hardcore Ogg Vorbis fans believe, despite that you've encoded your 1200 cds to Vorbis, etc. etc.

Rio Karma plays Vorbis and FLAC, so if you want those formats, support that player (and quit whining about iPod).

Re:Would they consider ogg vorbis and or flac? (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965615)

I wasn't saying for Apple to support them...but, would be nice. I was referring to HP doing so. This way, they'd have ACC for the iTunes/iPod compatability group, and the others for the more choosy groups....ACC is plenty for DRM's lossy stuff, ogg vorbis for good sounding lossy, non-DRM'ed stuff...and flac for those that find a need for lossless formats. I prefer FLAC for my home system which is more highend,but, OV would be great for the portable.

But, I digress...I was referring to the HP product that rejected WMA...

Re:Would they consider ogg vorbis and or flac? (1)

DeKoNiNG (597077) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965668)

It is not easy to make benefits out of an audio format that is open source and not DRM, therefor it is easy to understand why they avoid ogg. And from the DRM point of view they could better look at WMA...
Oh, wait, where was this article about?

SLASHDOT MOTTO (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965429)

Start a fire by mentioning MSFT.
All the linuxheads start pissing fire and farting smoke about how crap MSFT is!

Flame the linuxheads - new Slashdot motto

second post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965432)

second post dedicated to the GNAA!

God bless you brave boys!

you fail it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965532)

but i still agree with you. *sucking your nipples*

but what about... (0, Redundant)

MoFoQ (584566) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965434)

ogg? that's all I care (in addition to mp3)

Re:but what about... (1, Funny)

molafson (716807) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965513)

ogg? that's all I care (in addition to mp3)

Seriously, I wish iPod would add Ogg Vorbis support, so that every discussion of digital music on Slashdot would not degenerate into a "What about Ogg?" circle jerk.

There are players that support Ogg Vorbis, if that is all you care about (see above). Please buy one and stop bothering us.

Re:but what about... (2, Insightful)

kneecarrot (646291) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965545)

This is almost becoming another Slashdot cliche (or is it already? Hard to keep track these days).

Ogg is all fine and good, but hardly anyone knows about it, even fewer people use it, and there really isn't any good reason for these facts to change.

Re:but what about... (1)

ethelred (587527) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965581)

this [iriveramerica.com] supports ogg vorbis. And mp3. But i don't think it does AAC

Re:but what about... (0, Troll)

kneecarrot (646291) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965608)

I have it and it is the crown jewel of my electronics collection. Put it side by side any other player (yes, including the almighty iPod) and it is quite obviously superior in almost every respect.

Paul Thurrott (4, Insightful)

Triumph The Insult C (586706) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965437)

is also *ONE* very biased person

who gives a shit what he thinks? not me, probably not you. obviously not apple and hp. big whoop

Re:Paul Thurrott (1)

mfifer (660491) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965474)

The name of his site WinInformant is probably a mistake...

What he MEANT was WinAPOLOGIST...

Re:Paul Thurrott (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965684)

To anyone who possesses reading comprehension skills at a level equal to or greater than a field mouse, it is abundantly clear that Paul Thurott's writing style is a textbook example of biased presentation. Every statement is either a kiss on the cheek in support of the Wintel platform as a whole, or a backhanded slap to the face against anything that does not support the status quo for that platform.

What a douchebag.

Nice for Microsoft (5, Insightful)

AkaXakA (695610) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965443)

I guess that either Apple doesn't actually wants wma on iPod themselves (for business/tech reasons) or, they've been forced to by a certain company which have expressed their dislike of the plan [slashdot.org] . Either way, there isn't all that much music in wma format anyway online, except other than the iTMS rivals stores...(!)

Kinda Dupe (2, Insightful)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965452)

From just a few slashdot articles ago:
MS unhappy with HP [slashdot.org] . Either HP is really sticking it to MS, or MS is sticking it to HP. Either way, it isn't surprising.

Re:Kinda Dupe (1)

kevin_conaway (585204) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965550)

This is NOT a dupe. That was a completely different article. Everyone needs to quit looking for reasons to bash slashdot and ms

Re:Kinda Dupe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965685)

Your kinda new, I can tell by the UID#.
Listen, MS and /. are bashed. Its been this way since pretty much the beginning. The editors don't care about /. bashing, and pretty much encourage the ms bashing (just look at editor comments). So no need to get all worked up. It just happens and you have to accept it.

If you don't, you'll simply be one of the many that leaves slashdot for someplace like ars-technica, kuro5hin, and fark.

AAC vs WMA (5, Insightful)

Azadre (632442) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965454)

I am not meaning to sound redundant, but isn't AAC an actual standard while WMA is propietary to XP? Why is WMA more popular by Windows users if AAC can do the same drm wise and in a majority of cases sounds better?

Re:AAC vs WMA (3, Insightful)

happyfrogcow (708359) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965514)

I am not meaning to sound redundant, but isn't AAC an actual standard while WMA is propietary to XP? Why is WMA more popular by Windows users if AAC can do the same drm wise and in a majority of cases sounds better?

because Microsoft is using its monopolistic hold on the desktop operating system sector to push it's other less superior products?

Re:AAC vs WMA (2, Insightful)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965639)

So when my non Microsoft audio player holds twice as many songs when I use WMA (compressed using a non microsoft application) then when I use MP3 with no noticable diference in quality, how is that Microsoft "using its monopolistic hold on the desktop operating system sector to push it's other less superior products"?

Re:AAC vs WMA (2, Informative)

harlows_monkeys (106428) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965661)

I am not meaning to sound redundant, but isn't AAC an actual standard while WMA is propietary to XP?

They are both proprietary formats. AAC is owned by Dolby, WMA by Microsoft. You want to make an encoder or decoder for either, you need to get out the checkbook and write a big check (bigger for AAC than WMA).

AAC is available on Mac and Windows. WMA is available on Mac and Windows.

As far as quality goes, in pretty much every blind ABX study published, they come out about the same. WMA is usually slightly ahead, but not enough to be statistically significant.

Less support for WMA the better (3, Insightful)

Kethinov (636034) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965458)

I'm so tired of the WMA format. It's like a god damned virus. Just the other day I was explaining the concept of a CD MP3 player to someone I know and when he showed me his digital music collection, it was all in WMA. Now of course it's easily converted, but that's one extra thing I'll have to show him how to do. MP3 is the standard, nothing else should be supported, if only for clarity and simplicity reasons! If anything else is ever supported, it should be OGG because OGG is essentially open source MP3.

Re:Less support for WMA the better (5, Insightful)

radish (98371) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965548)

I'm so tired of the Linux operating system. It's like a god damned virus. Just the other day I was explaining the concept of a USB webcam to someone I know and when he showed me his PC, it was running Linux. Now of course it's easily converted, but that's one extra thing I'll have to show him how to do. Windows is the standard, nothing else should be supported, if only for clarity and simplicity reasons!

Understand this: Monopolies suck. Monocultures suck.

Re:Less support for WMA the better (1)

Kethinov (636034) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965590)

Your analogy is flawed. MP3 is superior to WMA in every way and it's used by more people. Whereas Windows is not superior to Linux in any way despite being used by more people.

Re:Less support for WMA the better (4, Insightful)

ratamacue (593855) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965576)

Easily converted? The last thing your friend needs to do is convert from one lossy format to another. If anything, that will convince him that WMA was superior all along.

Re:Less support for WMA the better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965614)

Danger Will Robinson! We have an audiophile in the parent who believes he can actually hear sound that it unhearable by the human ear!

Re:Less support for WMA the better (1)

ScooterBill (599835) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965587)

Yeah, I completely agree. WTF is with these companies who insist on pushing their own format. It's not like any of these formats are vastly superior to the others. All it does is end up fracturing the market and frustrating the users. But then again, that's human nature...witness our own government in action. The phrase "divide and conquer" comes to mind.

M

Easily confused (5, Insightful)

JThundley (631154) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965461)

I'm glad they aren't including wma. The more you ignore it, the more it'll die. Ogg support would be nice, but I guess that won't happen.

We could have chosen another format, but that would have created more confusion for our customers.
So I guess that proves that Apple's customers are confused easily :)

Re:Easily confused (1, Informative)

tfcdesign (667499) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965490)

not Apple's customers, HP's customers...

Well do I really care? (2, Insightful)

Shisha (145964) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965467)

In all honesty I don't really care whether its AAC or WMA. I prefer mp3s for a couple of reasons:
Anyone can play them on their PC
People's old mp3 players are happy with them
192kbits gives me all the quality I can hear

Yes I know that the patents are annoying but that's not come to bite me yet. I shall see. Also I know that I won't find an online store selling mp3s, but I still only buy CDs since, they're not all that much more expensive, you get the album artwork and they look nice on a shelf (I still have them on a computer, since it makes searching faster).

Btw. has everyone seen the mini iPod on Apple's website yet? I wonder what the UK price will be and also when Apple makes it officially compatible with Linux.

Re:Well do I really care? (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965582)

Go to www.cwonline.co.uk to find out...

No Reason for WMA in iPod (5, Insightful)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965472)

I never saw the logic in the iPod having WMA support. Maybe in the future if the market changes, but not now.

Right now, Apple enjoys a 70% market dominance in the online music sales market - and they have significant brand name and mindshare, which isn't going anywhere soon. Walk up to a standard non-geek person:

Question: What MP3 player works with the Apple Music store? (I know it's called the iTunes store, but who actually says that?)

Answer: iPod.

Question: What MP3 player works with Napster?

Answer: Ummmm....

A geek might know the answer, but most people do not.

So, based on that, Apple's move to have HP license the AAC+Freeplay system is a good move - it encourages the use of the protected AAC files, and Apple gets a cut of that licensing technology, whether through direct iPod sales, or through the purchase of "iPod compatible" devices.

Apple has a 5% market share because they didn't license their operating system - which is fine with them, they make money off of hardware. But licensing "iPod compatible" devices is a way to make money off of every MP3 player sold eventually. If you want to use the iTunes Music Store, and you sell MP3 players, you can either compete against the "de facto standard", or play with it.

If Apple added WMA support, perhaps that would in the short term increase iPod sales since it would work with all the music stores - but in the long term, that's bad for Apple, because then anybody who wanted to switch MP3 players would just pick any WMA compatible device.

Apple can't break into that desktop market at this time - but if they play the cards right, they could become, as Steve Jobs said, the "Microsoft of the online music world". Once that happens, maybe they'll sell more desktops, maybe not - but it would be interesting to see how much money Apple would make from "iPod compatible" devices as opposed to just computer sales alone.

If that became the case, then other online music stores would have to support the AAC+Freeplay "de facto standard" - which means that for every song sold online, Apple would get a cut for the licensing.

So what makes more money: WMA in iPod for short term sales, or take a gamble at getting the whole damned pie?

Eh - just my thoughts. I could be wrong.

Napster Player Also PortalPlayer (1)

meehawl (73285) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965692)

Question: What MP3 player works with Napster? Answer: Ummmm.... The Samsung Napster player, of course! I note this player is a close relative of the iPod, being also based on the PortalPlayer PP5002 chipset, which, as a matter of course, natively supports WMA. [216.239.53.104]
Realtime encoding to MP3 and (by Summer 2003) WMA

Realtime decoding of MP3, WMA, AAC, and ACELP(R).NET formats

Paul Thurrott (5, Funny)

rf600r (236081) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965481)

Paul Thurrott is and always has been most interested in Paul Thurrott and how the world relates to Paul Thurrott. He used to have a great website, until it got buried behind how much Paul Thurrott loves Paul Thurrott and how much you love Paul Thurrott, too.

Re:Paul Thurrott (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965502)

The Paul Thurrott of my Paul Thurrott is my Paul Thurrott?

Formats Confusion (4, Insightful)

jetkust (596906) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965485)

We could have chosen another format, but that would have created more confusion for our customers.' He added, 'Most customers don't care about the format they're downloading.

What does the format people download have to do with the formats their version of ipod supports? We already know what format they will be downloading if they are using itunes music store. The question is if the ipod can support formats not downloaded from the store. I think people would care if they downloaded a wma file that wouldn't run in their ipod.

Party Line (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965486)

Sounds like the general party line over there at Microsoft. The old "if you don't license our goods and services(which are proprietary as well), then you are stifling competition and hurting the market."

Give me a break.

iTunes Rocks! (3, Informative)

HedRat (613308) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965488)

I have purchased over 300 individual songs, used the "burn" utility to make my back-up copy*, then ripped the back-up cd straight to my Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX with the Media Source s/w from Creative. I rip in 198/mp3 format. There is absolutely no discernable difference in quality when playing the mp3's either through headphones on the Zen or using iRock Beamit 400 FM modulator to my car or stereo. Sure, you can buy the whole cd, but I've got 300 individual songs that I WANT without the album cuts I don't but have paid for. Another tip for making back-ups in m4p format...if you dual-boot to Linux, make a tar archive of your iTunes directory (and burn that to cd also).

*You must make a back-up copy because Apple will not replace any files you lose. So you aren't *wasting* a CD and you can play it in the car.

Re:iTunes Rocks! (5, Informative)

rigmort (584960) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965598)

I have personally witnessed Apple replacing lost downloads due to a hardware failure (hd crash). They do keep records.

Re:iTunes Rocks! (1)

gsabin (657664) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965652)

Not to be picky, but why boot to linux? Why not just open a terminal from osx and tar it?

Our top stories tonight... (1)

Metallic Matty (579124) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965505)

Microsoft claims that HP bundling the iTunes program will be bad for competition.

In other news, pot calls kettle black. Film at 11.

Apple's not going to use WMA (0)

tfcdesign (667499) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965510)

Apple would never adopt a MS technology for aproduct that has the largest mark share. Apple is trying to establish its own technologies.

Why would I buy the HP model? (1)

sterno (16320) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965519)

Why precisely would I, or anybody, but the HP model over the IPod? Is it cheaper? Because it is waaaaay uglier than the IPod. If it's cheaper, then isn't this likely to hurt Apple? I mean, I'd give up aesthetics for say $50 off the price tag.

I was originally thinking that HP would have the ipod features, but in a different style case. This thing looks like an IPod that's been severely bruised.

WMA/AAC (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965522)

AAC has one distinct disadvantage against WMA - royalties associated with its use going to various organizations. With WMA, Microsoft either has unlimited rights or owns everything in the format, so it can distribute encoders/players with no per-unit fee. However, if Apple wanted to undermine MS by distributing free (beer) software to encode AAC (aka Quicktime Pro for free)... they would be stuck with a per-unit charge. That's why we need Vorbis so much.

On the other hand (4, Interesting)

mcc (14761) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965673)

Because the per-unit fee is determined by the terms of MPEG licensing, Apple cannot apply discriminatory licensing with AAC. MS, however, can. This is a huge disadvantage to WMA from the perspective of everyone except Microsoft itself.

For example, let's say Microsoft is licensing WMA support to all the mp3 player creators for about 20 cents a unit. Then IBM decides they're going to start supporting Linux. Suddenly Microsoft decides they're licensing it to everyone for 20 cents a unit EXCEPT IBM, who has to pay a billion dollars for each player sold. They can do this, and they have shown in the past-- with OEM pricing on Windows-- that they are more than willing to do this exact sort of thing..

AAC, meanwhile, is equal for everybody.

Of course the FairPlay DRM is a totally different matter, but I've yet to be able to figure out if Apple is unwilling to license that to others or if just no one's asked.

There is no politics here (1)

gtrubetskoy (734033) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965524)

I don't think this decision is in any way political. At first they wanted to please Microsoft by including WMA, but soon realized that adding another format is a can of worms from the technology standpoint - it would require significant changes to the software on the iPod, the iTunes as well as the store, so they probably decided to abandon or at least put off the idea, and not try to "fix" what already works. Pretty smart move in my opinion.

Having said that, I predict more embarrasing blunders from M$ execs on this issue (which is a non-issue really).

Makes sense for Apple (2, Interesting)

virgo cluster (741002) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965528)

Why should Apple support WMA at all? Microsoft is their enemy, so why support one of their closed formats? If you want to add further value to your player just support ogg vorbis and FLAC! But don't pump cash into Microsofts pockets 'cause they will know how to use it against you.

The words of an arrogant bastard.... (1)

HotNeedleOfInquiry (598897) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965534)

We could have chosen another format, but that would have created more confusion for our customers.

Paul Thurrott (-1, Flamebait)

511pf (685691) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965541)

Paul Thurrott is the biggest Microsoft whore in the industry. He is the Windows equivalent of the stereotypical, senseless Linux-religious warrior. The guy is not a journalist in any sense of the word. Every one of his articles is simply Microsoft=Good, everyone else=bad. Thurrott says absolutely nothing worth reading. He is the Rush Limbaugh of the tech industry.

I think he meant to say... (5, Funny)

krray (605395) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965559)

From the article:
"Most customers don't care about the format they're downloading."

I think he meant to say:
"Most customers don't care about the wma format, they're not worth downloading."

Silly HP.

Thurott == idiot? (4, Interesting)

EricWright (16803) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965569)

Quoth Thurott:

"When I asked an HP representative how the company would solve the incompatibility problems, he told me, incorrectly, that the Protected AAC files users download do, in fact, work on HP's products and that converting them is a simple task if they don't."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but by HP's products, doesn't he mean HPs PCs running a version of Windows? And if so, where does such a user get Protected AAC files? Right, iTunes for Windows. Now, isn't iTunes (win or mac) ALL ABOUT AAC? What part of the HP representative's comment is incorrect?

HP machines run windows. iTunes is available for windows (and will be on all HP machines soon). iTunes Music store is the biggest (only?) provider of Protected AAC files. Sounds pretty simple to me...

Thurrott's article formatting... (1)

donutz (195717) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965602)

"Thurrott's singing a different tune lately, anyway...."

You'd think he could sing it in a more web friendly format, anyway. Instead of using the HTML paragraph <P> tag, he uses single line break <BR> tags to separate his paragraphs. Makes for one big unfriendly block of text.

I guess the important point to him isn't that you necessarily read, or enjoy reading, his article. Maybe he just wants to innundate you with text so that he appears really authoritative. I don't know.

MS adding WMA to iPod a violation of DMCA? (2, Insightful)

TVC15 (518429) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965618)

If MS wants WMA on the iPod badly enough (big if), I wonder if they could write an app that allows users to add the codec to the player? And if so, would it be a violation of the DMCA? Some kinda reverse engineering violation.

I'd like to thurottle the guy (1)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965624)

Paid opinions make me nauseous. Who can take this guy seriously? He's just a monkey with a microphone.

Good for Apple, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965633)

Its a nice feather in Apple's cap, but I'm so pissed at Carly Fiorina's cavalier attitude about shipping jobs overseas that I won't buy anything HP until she apologizes, or leaves HP.

It's DejaVu all over again (4, Insightful)

rcastro0 (241450) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965636)

The problem is that Apple's iPod -- the most popular portable player on the market -- will not play music encoded in WMA.

Likewise, none of the other portable music players from the likes of Dell, Rio or Creative Technology will play Apple's AAC files.
This at first looks like Betamax vs. VHS, Apple being in Sony's chair. Until you realize it is Betamax vs Betamax. MP3 is VHS. To me this WMA/AAC fight is an entertaining dispute for the second division cup.

Between all the alliances and industry player alignments/supports, MP3 has the best: the pirate industry support -- hundreds of thousands (millions?) of entrepreneurial individuals working out of basements, garages, or simply leaving their machines turned on serving files. I go to a street corner in Brazil and I can find CDs burned with hundreds of songs in MP3. Same thing in all of the "developing world" -- Malaysia, Russia, Paraguay, China. Paying a dollar a song is a luxury that *will* make WMA/AAC (and all DRM) look like Betamax, or Sony's MD.

DRM songs will try to fit in a niche: wealthy countries or individuals which are willing to pay for songs because they "just-want-to", or because of a very slight edge of "coolness" or exclusivity. This niche, though important for the potential margin, will always be smaller than the MP3 choice (or Ogg, in an unlikely scenario). MP3s will survive like cockroaches, and is IMNSHO the only assured bet for a format that will be still be around ten years from now. Trying to "migrate up" MP3 users with cool gadgets like Ipod may be profitable, but will never close the door that MP3/Napster/Kazaa/CD burners opened.

I think that is fine.

The fact of the iMatter is... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965641)

iWill not be buying any Apple hardware or software you fucking cocksuckers. You can take that iPod and iRamItUpYourAss. OS X OSuX my dick. I will take a G4 PowerDump on your PowerBook. QuickTime can QuickBlowMe. iTunes, more like shiteTunes. Expose? I'll Expose my fucking iNuts to your iChin.

I will be using Linux, XFree86, and Gnome. You Apple cockgobblers can keep taking it up the ass from Panther, or whatever new animal you like beastial anal sex with. Pengiuns never rape anyone, although they bite if they have to.

Apple is just another company that wishes they were Microsoft, so they can ass-ream you repeatedly with ease. If they had the market share that Microsoft had, they would be ass-fucking you harder and faster than Microsoft is. They already have a small group of willing homosexuals that let them do this to them already. But its not enough. What they want is the whole world to be forced to bend over and take a huge titanium iCock up their rectums.

Want proof that they are trying to be Microsoft? Visit Apple's web page. As of this writing, it reads "It's like Microsoft Office for the rest of your life"!!!
Microsoft Office for the rest of my life??!?? *shudder*

Apple wants me to "Switch". No thanks, I'm quite happy being a heterosexual male, I don't want to switch.

What about OGG? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7965657)

After showing great sense in their evaluation of WMA, HP should keep this winning streak going and implement the finest of all codecs - OGG.

Come on HP, my rips are waiting!

Mr. Thurrot: Practice what you preach (3, Funny)

vicparedes (701354) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965667)

And according to Mr. Thurrot: And, for what it's worth, I own two iPods and have downloaded more than 200 songs from the iTunes Music Store...

So your way of championing consumer choice is to recommend WMA and invest your time/money in Apple's product and service?

Hurting the industry ... (2, Insightful)

torpor (458) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965679)

... what hurts the industry more is lame-duck journo's trying to make waves with controversy and tabloid tactics in a field which has no truck with these sorts of tactics, usually ...

I care about the format (1)

demon_2k (586844) | more than 10 years ago | (#7965687)

I don't want drm enbedded wmf. That yould limit me to one os and player.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...