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The Full Story on GStreamer

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the one-api-to-bind-them-all dept.

Media 201

JigSaw writes "Gnome's Christian Schaller has written an intro/status document on GStreamer, the next generation multimedia development framework for Unix. Christian explains what it is, why it is important, its use in both the desktop and server side, its use on embedded Linux, Gnome and even KDE. He also discusses its current competition and the plans for the future."

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201 comments

Slashdot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967589)

It is apparent that many of you lack the ability to comprehend a single one of my posts. If you did, you would understand that you are all pawns on a chessboard I bought and own. You are all merely dancing chimps here to amuse me, and I have the ability to pull your strings and control your every move. If your reactions weren't so banal and tedious, I might be impressed.

Re:Slashdot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967606)

GStreamer. What is it all about... is it good, or is it whack?

Re:Slashdot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967632)

Is Soviet Russia, whack is good!!

One big bit of news (4, Insightful)

Telex4 (265980) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967609)

There was one snippet of news buried in the last page that I think is pretty big:

"Another interesting development is that we currently got a team of about 7 french students who are going to make a GStreamer-based non-linear video editor as the final year project."

7 students running a final year project suggests it ought to be good, so does that mean we might finally have some really high quality video editing software other than Cinelerra [heroinewarrior.com]? If so, that's brilliant!

I like the fact that GStreamer support is now filtering even into non-GNOME apps like Juk (in KDE). Good stuff :)

Re:One big bit of news (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967643)

we currently got a team of about 7 french students

The French will surrender when faced with the challenges of making a GStreamer-based non-linear video editor, no doubt.

I, for one... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967682)

...surrender to our cheese-eating code monkeys.

What? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967701)

7 students in a final year project doesn't mean dick.

Student produced code is typically SHIT, even in final projects.

Re:What? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967728)

Speaking as someone who works for a large corporation (and one of the world's most profitable companies) I would say student code is substantially better than corporate code.

Re:One big bit of news (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967863)

*That* is pretty big news?

Good Lord, if that isn't a sign of desparation/the pathetic state of OSS in general, I don't know what is. "Look, students are doing a class project, maybe that will be as good as such and such commercial software".

OSS is great; linux, xemacs, gcc, etc, are magnificent tools that I use daily. I'm flaming about the general state of OSS, the mounds of junk on sourceforge, etc, not the exceptions that are really great.

But 7 students doing a project gets you excited like that. Sheesh.

And don't bother to give me a semon about how somehow, in some convoluted way, I don't "get" it, and that really, this is the essence of what it is about.

I wish those guys the best of luck with their project, but clueless fan-monkeys like yourself are just a waste of space.

Re:One big bit of news (5, Informative)

Goonie (8651) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968009)

I wouldn't get too excited about final-year student projects.

They are usually evaluated according to their adherence to software development methodologies, rather than the actual quality of the end product. To that end, students spend more time making the paperwork good rather than the code good. Whilst this is a necessary part of building really big projects, it's not an optimal method of building small projects by inexperienced part-timers who often have only a very partial understanding of the problem domain.

Re:One big bit of news (1)

JoeBuck (7947) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968377)

But if the paperwork is good, that means that there will be lots of documentation for others to use to maintain and extend the work.

Cinelerra is mediocre (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968386)

Cinelerra is honestly pathetic compared to ANY non-linear videditor available on Windows or Mac.

Even that piece of shit known as Adobe Premiere -- which Cinelerra trys and fails to immitate -- is lightyears ahead. If you want to get into the billions of lightyears ahead, then compare to FinalCutPro or Vegas Video (which was recently bought from SoundForge by Sony Pictures).

Linux has a loooooooooooooooong way to come in this department, and that's no troll.

f1r57 p0457 fro PECK THOMASON (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967612)

Fuck yeah! Eat that, GNAA t00L5!

GStreamer is a very useful framework (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967628)

That was a good reading. I hope Rhythmbox and Totem will be included on Gnome 2.8 at least when GStreamer 0.8 is out and more mature.

The BeOS had the Media Kit and it was great, allowed for cool stuff easily done on apps. Check Cortex for example: http://www.bebits.com/search?search=cortex [bebits.com] and its surrounded plugins.

Re:GStreamer is a very useful framework (1)

$calar (590356) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967928)

Rhythmbox is set for inclusion in GNOME 2.6. My guess is that Rhythmbox 0.7/0.8 will ship at that point (I'm not sure if 0.7 is their CVS or will be the next stable) and if you read the article, you will notice that a lot right now is going into GStreamer 0.8 for GNOME integration. The current CVS of Rhythmbox depends on the current development version of GStreamer also.

Hmm... (5, Informative)

My Secondary Account (741235) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967642)

The "pipeline" he describes is somewhat similar to what you can do with VST plugins in Windows. E.G., you could hook up a microphone, then attach some distortion filters and eventually terminate the pipeline at some output device. All in all, this is a great article in my opinion. For the technically inclined, there are much more in-depth docs here [gstreamer.net], including all the gory API details.

-1 TROLL MENTIONED WINDOWS AND DIDNT HATE IT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967706)

-1 TROLL

Re:Hmm... (4, Interesting)

CoolVibe (11466) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967865)

Ever saw artsbuilder? Arts (despised and misunderstood by many) also is more than meets the eye.

You can plug in modules, and synthesise any sound you like though plugins and modules, not unlike the pipeline editor in gstreamer.

Re:Hmm... (1)

makapuf (412290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968323)

despised with a reaon : while extremely promising, I never got to get arts working properly -and consuming 20% CPU - nor have I found a correct (up to date) programming documentation for it.

However, it's not cross-toolkit, so difficult to consider as a goal.

VST vs LADSPA, ten thousand per cent (1)

Sunnan (466558) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968214)

flaming skull heads

you must check out LADSPA they're beautiful
so beautiful
I die

Wow, there's nothing more useful than . . . (-1, Offtopic)

EmCeeHawking (720424) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967652)

. . . Yet ANOTHER *nix multimedia library.

To those of you who wonder why linux on the desktop has not taken off, here's your answer. Different developers, same itch, same not-built-here syndrome, same wheel.

Re:Wow, there's nothing more useful than . . . (4, Informative)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967861)

Did you actually RTFA? I assume not.

In fact, there is little out there to compete with GStreamer, at least on Linux. The nearest equivalent would be DirectShow on Windows which has nowhere as nice an architecture.

You're probably thinking that GStreamer duplicates Xine and MPlayer (though mplayer isn't really a library). To a certain extent it does - they all allow you to play back files, however GStreamer allows you to do a whole lot more.

Having said that, at the moment XineLib is more robust than GStreamer is, but the competition actually is spurring them forwards.

Worse is better strikes again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968229)

All the coding effort and mindshare is going into the short-term solution of basic media players instead of the framework. And since the players are ahead, they get more volunteer help, so they get farther ahead... and the framework never gets done.

Re:Wow, there's nothing more useful than . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967879)

Different developers, same itch, same not-built-here syndrome, same wheel.

In addition, Gstreamer doesn't work for most people I know, and nobody is working towards a fix. Just look at all the untouched Gstreamer bugs in Gnome's bugzilla.

The install instructions for RedHat (using apt-get) are wrong and have been broken for well over a year (there is no gstreamer-universe), if you install the RPMs gstreamer won't work because it was built WITHOUT the Hermes library which is REQUIRED and the Hermes library wasn't included with the RPMs!

The source doesn't compile for many people.

And the developers, instead of fixing these problems, have now moved on to the 0.7 branch.

We will never have a working version of Gstreamer.

Re:Wow, there's nothing more useful than . . . (1)

millette (56354) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967889)

GStreamer 0.0.9 released! -- 31 October, 1999

This is not a new library, you know... And it's got the attention of the gnome and kde developpers.

Re:Wow, there's nothing more useful than . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967917)

Thats good mods.

Slap him down, even though he's right.

I'd settle for . . (2, Interesting)

Leroy_Brown242 (683141) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967653)

Video playback I could resize on the fly!
Call me lazy, but I hate putting in all those switches for mplayer.

Re:I'd settle for . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967765)

I think you're just too used to "features" and "good user interfaces".

Ah well, the source is there...

Re:I'd settle for . . (3, Informative)

dinivin (444905) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968014)


That's strange. I've never had a problem grabbing the corner of an mplayer video window and resizing it as needed/desired.

Dinivin

Re:I'd settle for . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968020)

If you use KDE, try kplayer or kmplayer. I use kplayer and its about 85-90% OK. What would actually be better, is if they ripped the necessary parts of mplayer and stick it into kplayer. I think that would work better. So basically fork mplayer. While yes it would add more work to the kplayer maintainer/developer, I think it would be beneficial in the end.

Re:I'd settle for . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968069)

Xine, man, Xine. Or mplayer with one of those nice KDE interfaces.

Re:I'd settle for . . (3, Informative)

superjaded (617714) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968331)

Try using the 'xv' video driver ($ mplayer -vo xv). mplayer, by default, uses the 'x11' video driver and won't scale on the fly.

the 'xv' driver will, however.

KDE usage huh? (2, Funny)

kidgenius (704962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967658)

I'm surprised that KDE users would use something that started w/ a "G" instead of a "K"....and vice versa ;-)

Re:KDE usage huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967761)

I'm surprised that something with a "G" instead of a "K" would use KDE users?

Re:KDE usage huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967978)

As a KDE 3.x user, I'd agree, I use next to no gnome software anymore (I'm a former gnome 1.4 user). After reading this introduction I am hyped about it. I don't think arts is as well engineered, but to be fair to the arts people, I've never investigated the issue of gstreamer vs arts and I'm not proficient enough in the area to really say.

However, considering the possibility of things similar VST under windows becoming a reality under linux, this is a really really good thing and something I've been wishing would occur for a long time. I am also a Cubase user and other Cubase users I know wish they could get something as good as VST running under linux. I really hope Gstreamer reaches their goals, and I really hope it is as good as they say it is... and if it is, then I hope it can replace arts and see seamless integration into KDE as it is my DE of choice atm (at least until Enlightenment DR17 becomes stable (if it ever sees the light of day...)).

And then, KStreamer will follow (0, Troll)

melted (227442) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967660)

I mean, seriously, guys. How can you hope for any product recognition at all if it doesn't even have a name. GStreamer is not bad for Unix, after all they could have just called it "xyzzy" or "foo" or "ogg vorbis" or "xmms", but you gotta take product names seriously, otherwise the public will always perceive your products as pieces of shit hacked together in a haste. Which, to tell the truth, is what most of the stuff on freshmeat and sourceforge is.

Who cares what a framework is called? (2, Insightful)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967848)

You think mom and pop, or even corperate customers for that matter, know or care what DCOM, DDC, or OLE stand for or mean? Guess that means that Windows will never be taken seriously...

Frameworks are only used by developers, they can call them whatever the heck they want.

Re:And then, KStreamer will follow (1)

glwtta (532858) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967893)

Well then let's leave the worrying about names to you (after all, you are doing a fantastic job of it already), and the developers on these projects can just concentrate on the software.

There, everything worked out in the end.

Re:And then, KStreamer will follow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968376)

>How can you hope for any product recognition at all
>if it doesn't even have a name.

That may be a general problem is OSS, but not at all in this case. Your comment is actually quite silly.

This is a multimedia framework, not a product aimed at end users in and of itself. The name shouldn't matter to anyone but developers and power users.

GStreamer, Gnome, and KDE : WHY KDE IS WRONG (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967668)

GStreamer, Gnome, and KDE : WHY KDE IS WRONG

KDE was cooked up in the same country that started both World Wars, embraced philosophies of destruction and hate (such as Nazism and Fascism), and spawned evil murderous maniacs such as Adolf Hitler.

By using KDE you are implicitly endorsing these hatemongering people and their genocidal dogmas.

A true patriot uses GNOME, written in the land of the free and the home of the brave. By using Gnome you are re-affirming your American ideals and supporting the open doctrine of truth, liberty, and justice for all.

So, the choice is yours: Do you use Gnome or are you a terrorist?

Re:GStreamer, Gnome, and KDE : WHY KDE IS WRONG (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967716)

I guess I'm a terrorist then, FUCKER!

Re:GStreamer, Gnome, and KDE : WHY KDE IS WRONG (2, Insightful)

forevermore (582201) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967768)

By using Gnome you are re-affirming your American ideals and supporting the open doctrine of truth, liberty, and justice for all.

Yeah, even if they don't ask for it, don't want it, and fight you to prevent it from happening. How "free" is so-called freedom that's shoved down your throat?

Seriously - gnome, kde, whatever.. As long as they all interoperate (which could use some work, but is improving), choice is a good thing.

It's ending soon (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967674)

GNAA / Google confirms: Linux is dying.
By GNAA Staff

Here you have it: it's official; Google confirms: Desktop Linux is dying .

Now, you might be thinking this is just another cut & paste troll based on the typical *BSD is dying bullshit.
It isn't.
As you might have know, your favorite search engine, Google [google.com], has been running a little statistics service, called " Zeitgeist [google.com]".
Since about a year ago, they started providing statistics of the operating systems used to access their search engine worldwide.
I will let the numbers speak for themselves:

Operating Systems Accessing Google in January 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in March 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in April 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in May 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in June 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in July 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in August 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in September 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in November 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in December 2002 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in January 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in February 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in April 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in May 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in June 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in July 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in August 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in September 2003 [google.com]
Operating Systems Accessing Google in November 2003 [google.com]

If you've looked at even a few of these links, you don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict Desktop Linux's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Desktop Linux faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Linux on Desktop because Linux is dying. Things are looking very bad for Linux on Desktop. As many of us are already aware, Linux on Desktop continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

According to Google Zeitgeist [google.com], there are about 80% of Internet Explorer 6 [microsoft.com] users. The only platform supporting Internet Explorer 6 is, of course, Microsoft Windows. These statistics are consistent with the earlier presented graphs of the operating systems used to access Google, with the Windows family consistently taking the top 3 ranks. Out of remaining 20%, the split is even between MSIE 5.5, MSIE 5.0, both Windows-only browsers. Netscape 5.x (including Mozilla) counts for only a measly 5% of browsers used to access Google. As you can see from the graph, this sample was calculated starting from March 2001 until September 2003.

Linux "leaders" will have you believe that Linux is gaining market share. However, according to Google [google.com], "Linux" was never a top 10 search word at *any time* since Google began tracking search statistics. This can only mean one thing: Linux is dying .

All major surveys show that Linux on Desktop is something never meant to happen. Repeatedly, reputable organizations review Desktop Linux offerings, and consistently [osnews.com] give [com.com] it [com.com] unacceptable [yahoo.com] scores, compared to even Apple [apple.com]'s MacOS X [apple.com], which is actually based on the "claimed to by dying long time ago" *BSD. If you paid attention to the operating systems used to access Google graphs earlier, you will notice that MacOS has consistently scored higher percentages than Linux. Infact, the obscure "other" category, which we assume is embedded systems, PDA's, cellular phones, etc, has at times ranked Higher [google.com] than even Mac OS - and of course, Linux.

In almost 2 years worth of statistics, Linux [linux.com] has NEVER outranked even such a truly "dying" OS as Mac OS, and infact, never raised above the 1% mark. When Windows XP [microsoft.com] was released, Google searches for Linux drastically decreased [google.com]. This clearly demonstrates that Linux on Desktop is, for all practical purposes, dead.

Re:It's ending soon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967771)

I'm not a Kreskin [google.com], but none of those links is a link,

Server or Client audio? (2, Interesting)

vanyel (28049) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967686)

The article wasn't clear if Gstream addresses this problem, but one of the things I've been looking for is X-server based audio. I have a variety of types of systems and try to run or two desktops. Since Windows and Mac won't remote natively, they're the ones I'm currently stuck with, and my unix systems, being capable of it, are off in another room somewhere and I get to them using a local X-server or ssh. But that means no Unix multimedia, because no audio.

Dear God Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967747)

X is noisy enough, let's not audio.

*shudder*

Besides X doesn't do remote all that well, it's too chatty. Use something like Timbuk Pro or VNC which are much more effecient.

Breaking news (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967695)

Multimedia on Linux, Film At 11.

And here I believed the rabid zealots that told me in no uncertain terms that Linux was a viable multimedia platform... 3 years ago. 3 years ago Linux wouldn't detect most soundcards.

OT really, but you guys should think more before blathering it up in the trenches. Coming back with a zany "we have that, fucker" and pointing people to a page for a project maintained by a kid in Romania barely out of alpha that's been abandoned for 2 years as an alternative to a mature, stable commercial application is not my idea of "we have that". The computer is not just a browser, office suite and MP3 player.

100% CPU Usage (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967720)

My experience with GStreamer on RedHat v9 with Gnome has got me annoyed. Nautilus uses GStreamer to make the thumbnails and when browsing directories I'll often see GKrellM screaming about 100% CPU usage. A quick 'top' almost always reveals the culprit as gst-thumbnail.

One of my terminal windows looks this:
killall gst-thumbnail
killall gst-thumbnail
killall gst-thumbnail
killall gst-thumbnail
killall gst-thumbnail

KDE has a runaway process killer. Why doesnt gnome?

Re:100% CPU Usage (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968036)

It does: Gnome System Monitor -> Kill Task

Re:100% CPU Usage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968298)

the one in kde is a monitor applet. it lets you know if your system is slow because of one unresponsiv runaway process.

Al Gore Invented Whatever the Heck This Is (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967731)

and the US Patent Office granted him the rights, as always! No questions asked...

Re:Al Gore Invented Whatever the Heck This Is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967838)

Your joke is out of date, these days SCO owns the copyright

its (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967745)

A correct use of the possessive pronoun a whopping three times! Congrats submitter!

Re:its (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967825)

Oh fuck you must be my college instructor, Dr Death. Is that you? If it is I hated your labs and your lectures they made me sleepy you teabagger.

Explain it to me quickly, (2, Insightful)

plastik55 (218435) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967792)

But where are the places where GStreamer innovates over the DirectShow APIs? The basic concept seems to be the same. DirectShow even has a filter graph editor which GStreamer's stream editor is eerily reminiscent of.

Nothing wrong with copying ideas... (1)

Goonie (8651) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968033)

If Microsoft's system works, there's nothing wrong with imitating the good parts of it. Just because it's Microsoft doesn't automatically make it a dumb idea - just most of the time...

Innovation for innovation's sake is a waste of time.

Re:Nothing wrong with copying ideas... (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968164)

GStreamer was not a simple re-implementation of something which had been done before. I guess we did what Steve Balmer claims free software never does: we innovated. The basic design and basic idea came from a research project at Portland University, research work in which GStreamer project founder Erik Walthinsen participated. It was loosely modeled on DirectShow.
I think he was referring to this paragraph... saying that it was not implementing something done before, and then following that by saying the design and idea came from a research project, and was loosely modeled on DirectShow does seem a bit incongruous.

Still, I'm not knocking GStreamer... Linux REALLY needs a consistent, solid media playback library similar to DirectShow.

Nice. (3, Interesting)

Bluesman (104513) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967802)

This really has come a long way from when I checked it out a while back.

It's a fantastic idea, although it's been around for a while. But being able to apply different filters to an audio stream is really cool. It's unix pipes for audio.

What would be great is if gnome standardized a bunch of filters like this for everything. Imagine being able to apply a tar and then a gzip filter in this manner. Or perhaps a .doc decode filter and a grep, then to a .csv. All file conversion could be handled by the environment, rather than individual programs, which is messy and inconsistent.

Gstreamer is a big step in the right direction. Way to go guys.

Whoops - don't mod that funny... (1)

Bluesman (104513) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967824)

Before everyone jumps all over me and thinks I'm being facetious, I don't mean applying tar and gzip via the command line, but rather with a GUI interface, as in the article. :-)

Re:Whoops - don't mod that funny... (1)

bluGill (862) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968117)

sounds like a kio slave to me. KDE at least has this support.

I've never used GNOME, but I'm surprized they don't have something like this. Surprized enough to suggest you look again because it seems more likely that they have this and you haven't seen it than they don't.

Re:Nice. (1)

glwtta (532858) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968187)

um, it's called a |

If I had to use a graphical interface to apply a gzip filter after tar I would probably shoot myself rather soon.

GSteamer and MPLayer (4, Interesting)

JarekC (544383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967819)

Recently I read a short but interesting discussion [gnome.org] of GStreamer in context of MPlayer, triggered by an announcement of a bonobo component wrapping MPlayer.

I wonder what will happen when MPlayerG2 comes out from an incubator. Will the two projects simply compete, or will they work out some way to integrate/support each other?

Re:GSteamer and MPLayer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967909)

As was stated in the article, GStreamer is about a full-featured multimedia framework, where mplayer is mostly about playback.

Re:GSteamer and MPLayer (1)

JarekC (544383) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968015)

Well, MPlayer G2 vision statement [mplayerhq.hu] says:
The main goal of this project is to create a clean modular framework, with minimum cross-dependency of the modules, and at the same time solve some of the design issues/implementation limitations of MPlayer 0.90.

I know that the priorities of these two projects are different, I was just wandering if they will simply compete/coexist, or whether they will somehow combine their forces.

Re:GSteamer and MPLayer (5, Informative)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967922)

I wonder what will happen when MPlayerG2 comes out from an incubator. Will the two projects simply compete, or will they work out some way to integrate/support each other?

To be honest, the two don't really compete... mplayer is purely playback focussed. It has no pretensions as a multimedia framework, or anything of the sort. GStreamer is all about being a powerful multimedia framework.

It's easy to forget how much code sharing goes on between these projects. They are all liberally licensed, all import each others code all the time and swap codec implementations etc. This isn't like standard capitalist competition where people constantly reinvent the wheel in order to stay ahead - if mplayer has a codec the GStreamer guys want, licensing issues nonwithstanding they'll go and take it.

Gstreamer is Gnome technology! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967845)

Gnome is a rival to KDE, the popular collection of programs for Linux and freinds. Unfortunatley, ever since Gnome 2.4 (and the BETA 2.5) was released, I have found more and more Zealots who MUST advocate it at every possible moment. Here are some of their most common claims and what they REALLY MEAN.

Claim : Unlike KDE, Gnome is free
Translation : GPL is freerer than LGPL. LGPL allows corporations like Novell
and Sun to have propeitry forks and lock away their changes from the user. Now
that Novell has taken over Ximian you can expect Gnome to get put under
corpirate lock. With KDE you have the choice, you either PAY UP or pay with
your source code. Most companies agree, the majority of commerical software for Linux is written in Motif and Qt, and NOT GTK. Apart from Ximian's desktop, there is no major product using GTK.

Claim : Nautilus is much better than konqueror.
Wrong, if your using nautilus for anything more than a simple finder clone you
can forget it. No split screen, no ioslaves (gnome-vfs can't compare, sorry) and forget about being able to
have a decent file dialog, not to forget that it is as unstable as hell and is
STILL slow on >3 Ghz machines. The latest version decided to copy Windows 95, complete with a my computer icon on the desktop.

Claim : Gnome is easier to use than KDE
Yep, nothing like using gconf-editor to edit all except the most trivial of
settings. Want tear off menus? Want a useable file dialog? You won't find it
here. Gnome was a lot more usable back in the 1.4 series, before sun came along with their usabillity "study".

Claim : Gnome has eye candy
Yes, my pirated Win32 fonts with the patent infringing font renderer. Bit
stream vera sans looks like Tahoma put through a shreadder! Of course I still
reboot into windows to print using "Comic Sans MS. Gnome themes don't even let you change the colour scheme. Looking at sites like art.gnome.org [gnome.org] you will see that the majority of themes are the same one in different colours!

Claim : Gnome is not ugly like KDE
I am too stupid to realise that the look of KDE can be changed by going to the Appearence and themes section in KDE, not to mention that KDE has more themes wrote for it. Popular themes such as Keramik, Liquid, dotNET, Plastik and Alloy were wrote for KDE first, but somebody wrote a crappy port of it on art.gnome.org, so Gnome must be good.

Claim :Gnome has a new web browser
Yawb! Along with Galeon, mozilla, thunderbird, konqueror, atlantis, lynx,
netscape and w3m. Yes I need another browser! Not to mention that its got a
religiously offensive name and it dosen't allow bookmark folders. It also
crashes like a crazy! Apple chose khtml for a REASON! its stable and light! Epiphany is also a faliure, it has gone through 6 major bug fixes and none of the major distrobutions use it because they stick with decent browsers.

Claim : Gnome is more popular than KDE
Despite the fact that the only mainstream Gnome based distro has been EOL'd,
and all the newbie distros such as Mangadrake, Lindoze, $u$E, Lycoris,
Xandroze, Gentoo use kde default, bruce perens decided to make a gnome based distro and everybody hated it because KDE wasn't in it.

Klaim : You KDE guys must be sick of the K
Our G's and monkeys are SO MUCH better, gedit, glib, gconf, bobono, ghex,
gless, same-gnome, gstreamer.

Claim : Gnome has multimedia framework
Its a kludge of esd combined with broken xine libraries. No wonder it crashes
all the time and dosen't work on 95% of video files. But we have Rhythmbox, a cheesy Itune clone using it, so it rules!

Zealot : My Gnome work station.....
My 2Ghz G5 box my mum bought for me from PC world, that is made of
made to break components and running Debian Gnu/Linux, but it has a GEFORCE RADEON 9000 card and a CUTE one button mouse, so it must be good. Too bad my mum's six year old 300Mhz Celeron with 64MB of ram thrashes it in performance everyday with her KDE workstation running Mandrake 8.0.

Claim : Gnome allows mac like operation.
We have a shameless expose ripoff, with a cheezy name, instead of fixing our buggy and slow metacity window manager, we decided to add this hack to make it even slower. Next thing you know we
will scrap the panel for a cheezy dock clone. x86
compatible 1 button mice are almost impossible to find anyway. It dosen't copy
the mac style menu concept. Our auto apply implementation is broken and
dangerous, but you can always use gconf like a real geek. We also arent porting GTK to Mac os X because Apple uses KDE technology.

Zealot :Gnome is gnu/software.
gnu/Yay, gnu/gnome gnu/for gnu/my gnu/debian gnu/linux gnu/box. gnu/I gnu/am gnu/so gnu/happy!

About
Inspired by the Gentoo translate-o-matic [upevil.net]. Written using Kwrite 4.2 on KDE 3.1.94
Version 1.3.1 Last updated 2004-01-04. If this post is moderated -1, troll or equivilent, it means that the Moderator agrees that GNOME SUCKS!

GStreamer summarized (3, Interesting)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967870)

I think gstreamer is a cute hack, but it is also *exactly* what Chris Pirazzi warned against in his "Video I/O on Linux: Lessons Learned from SGI" [lurkertech.com].
One can build fancy mechanisms which have network transparency, compression/decompression, format conversion, graph-based dataflow management, etc. on top of a well-designed video I/O API, and such mechanisms might be useful for some applications. But SGI's big mistake--one which hampered development of useful audio/video applications for years--was to try to build and offer those fancier mechanisms to developers instead of offering a simple API that worked on multiple video devices.

Substitute audio for video when necessary.

Re:GStreamer summarized (4, Informative)

Vann_v2 (213760) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967984)

From the article:


GStreamer provides you with an easy to use API that lets you focus on your actual application instead of worrying about what kinds of things happen at the lower levels.

Re:GStreamer summarized (2, Insightful)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968121)

Obviously you didn't read the SGI article. His point is that such encapsulating APIs make the details inaccessible, thereby frustrating attempts to make any decent video applications.

Re:GStreamer summarized (1)

dschleef (163964) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968280)

I think gstreamer is a cute hack, but it is also *exactly* what Chris Pirazzi warned against in his "Video I/O on Linux: Lessons Learned from SGI".

Every difficulty with SGI's Video Library mentioned in this article has been overcome by GStreamer (as well as most other Linux-based media frameworks), and is used in working applications. Many of his observations seem rather quaint and outdated.

OSDN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967883)

MORE OSDN personals ads? What shall I do? Just give in?
Maybe the comments section will do the job, so I won't have to pay!

SWM aged 31, likes computers, likes programming, enjoys long walks on the beach, enjoys blogging to a readership of 20 people.
Seeking white female aged 18-45. Smoking/drinking/drugs optional.
Potential candidate will must find anxiousness, neediness, nervousness, and lack of confidence attractive.
Sex optional.
Must like LED lights, dimly lit basements, and the smell of gasoline.

Reply to this post if interested!

Re:OSDN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967950)

Beatiful Swedish supermodel would like to date Slashdot regulars. Must be +4: Interesting and +5: Funny, please no weirdos and Mac zealots.

KDE 3.2 will come with partial support for it. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967890)

Although the main integration isn't planned until 4.0, the upcoming 3.2 will support gstreamer in JuK, the new music player for KDE. It will replace the slow and buggy noatun. Ive tried it, and its really quite good. Its one of the reasons why KDE 3.2 will rock.

Re:KDE 3.2 will come with partial support for it. (3, Informative)

Makarakalax (658810) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968287)

JuK doesn't replace noatun in 3.2, noatun will still be there. JuK is a media Library, Noatun a media player that plays audio and video. They are barely similar appplications.

GStreamer is looking more likely to be adopted by KDE. Arts is a little unmaintained and not well liked. GStreamer is good, has few new dependencies (arts depends on glib too as it happens), and supported by freedesktop.org. All things going for it. But frankly I don't know who will decide this sort of thing.

FAN HELP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967914)

anyone know how to get ACPI to turn down the fan
speed on my linux desktop computer? it sounds like
an airplane! boot to windows and it goes almost
silent.

/proc/acpi/fan is empty :(

Dependencies ... (-1, Troll)

makapuf (412290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967967)

I reckon GStreamer is what Arts for KDE should have been , but !

I think that if this GStreamer relies on gtk+ (even on gobject or glib), its chances to become the standard directX is nil.

Too bad, but having gtk+ as a dependency to install kde-multimedia ... is somewhat funny.

Could this prog be separated between UI dependant and toolkitn agnistic (yes, gtk+ is a freakin' X widget toolkit .. anbd I hope it will saty so)

Not saying Qt's better or GTK+ is (god forbid), but an audio underlying should NOIT have dependency on a widget toolkit if it has to be the standard.

Look at LADSPA (linux standard for audio plugins. Yes, both of them. just kidding), its dependency are very, very bare. And, that's a good thing. GStreamer doesn't even need to be based on gnome.

What's next, Postgresql replication having a dependency on a MySQL library ?

Besides, I think that the quality of the gstreamer is realy exciting, but I don't see it becoming the standard media infrastructure for KDE.

Re:Dependencies ... (3, Informative)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 10 years ago | (#7967983)

Could this prog be separated between UI dependant and toolkitn agnistic (yes, gtk+ is a freakin' X widget toolkit .. anbd I hope it will saty so)

You don't know what you're talking about. GLib and GObject don't even depend on X, let alone a widget toolkit. GTK is built upon these libraries, but to say GStreamer depends on a widget toolkit is flat out wrong.

Re:Dependencies ... (0, Flamebait)

makapuf (412290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968283)

OK, I'm a bit overstating, and installing gtk+ on a system is not generally very such a big pb.

However, when exactly have you installed glib without the full gtk+ ? Sorry, but glib, gobject, gdk and gtk ARE a common package (and developed as is : same developers, same version numbers, same CVS) in most if not all distros.

Ergo, a dependency on glib is, for now and practically speaking, a dependency on GTK+. Thus, on a widget toolkit.

GTK+ is not built on glib and gobject : they belong to GTK+.

Re:Dependencies ... (3, Informative)

CoolVibe (11466) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968025)

Glib is not a widget toolkit. Sure, it has ties to gnome, but it's independant. Just like libxml2 (which is desktop agnostic) is 'tied' to gnome, but KDE uses that too.

Gstreamer needs glib to run. So what? :)

Re:Dependencies ... (0, Flamebait)

makapuf (412290) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968387)

Libxml2 can and is installed without gnome.
Glib isn't. Glib is part of GTK+.

Would you say the same with pango ?

Re:Dependencies ... (4, Informative)

damiam (409504) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968240)

GStreamer does not depend on GTK. The only dependence is on glib. I've yet to see anyone make any rational argument against a glib dependency in KDE. glib is just an extension to the C library, and no more a GNOME technology than libxml or libpng.

Re:Dependencies ... (1)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968303)

The problem isnt core glib (which arts and some koffice filters already uses), but the extention gobject.

GObject contains the "GNOME" event-loop and object system, and is what makes integrating GNOME and KDE applications hard.

For KDE to use GStreamer, we would need to have two event-systems and two object-systems and a patch to translate between them. Or in other words an invitation to crap.

Re:Dependencies ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968336)

Don't be silly, glib isn't a widget library. It has nothing to do with widgets or grahpics. It's a powerful library that facilitates easy portability and convenience in C.

*sighs*

Re:Dependencies ... (1)

KeyserDK (301544) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968351)

glib does not depend on anything but standard C (glibc).
Copy & Paste gives you this:
GLib is the low-level core library that forms the basis for projects
such as GTK+ and GNOME. It provides data structure handling for C,
portability wrappers, and interfaces for such runtime functionality as
an event loop, threads, dynamic loading, and an object system.

Moderator nazi: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7967977)

Moderated-down comments for news story # 5648 [osnews.com]

By Assimil8or (IP: ---.dclient.hispeed.ch) - Posted on 2004-01-13 21:35:54 Unlike many other free software projects, GStreamer was not a simple re-implementation of something which had been done before.
I'm really very sorry to have to tell you so, but you didn't ;) Just take a look at the BeOS/Zeta MediaKit .. =)

By Eugenia (IP: ---.client.comcast.net) - Posted on 2004-01-13 21:38:52
The BeOS Media Kit is not "free software". Please reply correctly without plagariazing.

Re:Moderator nazi: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968035)

She is right. The BeOS' Media Kit was not free software.

Re:Moderator nazi: (Socre:5, insightful) (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968058)

Eugeina is a pro BeOS/anti Linux TROLL. She also is biased against KDE. Say something wrong about gnome and get moderatoted down. Critisize KDE and she will give you an "already reviewed" label and let the flames fly!

Re:Moderator nazi: (Socre:5, insightful) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968247)

Your post is just trolling. You seem to have miss a lot of episodes and forget a lot of times where Eugenia took KDE's side (like in the UserLinux debate).
FYI, Eugenia does not use BeOS (or Zeta) at all anymore. She (says) mostly uses Mac OS X or XP and sometimes Slackware and FreeBSD.

Helix licensing (1)

rgammon_real (738651) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968348)

or licensed in a way that makes them uninteresting to most free software developers (like Helix)

I used to work as an open-source developer with the helix [helixcommunity.org] engine (still do, in fact), and didn't find the licensing to be that much of a turn-off. It's kinda like the NPL, or the GPL with the special rights for the Licensor outlined in section 3.

You can read the Helix license mentioned in the article here: RPSL [opensource.org]

You Don't Know JACK? (1)

Blahbbs (587167) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968362)

Isn't this similar to JACK [sourceforge.net]? From what I gather, GStreamer extends it to video, also.
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