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SCO Files Response To Demand For Evidence

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the we-sorta-complied dept.

Caldera 498

The Welcome Rain writes "SCO has posted its notice of compliance with the court order of December 12, which required them to produce evidence. The document itself is brief, but refers to a sixty-page supplement which lists the offending lines, and asserts that it can find more when IBM produces some of the evidence demanded of them by SCO. Millions of lines on sixty pages? How silly."

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Fist (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968592)

me

SCO producing evidence? (2, Insightful)

marine_recon (652565) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968646)

right. ill belive this when i see it. untill then i will regard this like everything else that sco has done, a vague answer to a direct question.

I WANT TO PUT MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968594)

I WANT TO PUT MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE

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Crumbling... (-1, Redundant)

cyt0plas (629631) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968595)

Finally, SCO's case is starting to truly crumble..

Re:Crumbling... (0)

SubTexel (715118) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968625)

Heh, just started? I believe it did the moment they opened their mouth. =)

First post on behalf of... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968602)

People who are in favor of posting about clitoral stimulation, but not doing it logged in, and also opposed to $699 fees as well as homosexual non-white people. Plus I like Jews. Hope I got all that straight.

yeah (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968610)

totatly

Small fonts (5, Funny)

mkiwi (585287) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968615)

IBM must be using really small fonts to make it hard for SCO to find evidence. It's always the fine print that gets people, though. ;)

Re:Small fonts (4, Funny)

dbialac (320955) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968865)

Nah. They compressed the contents with tar/bzip2 and then printed that out.

Dave Bialac

hmmm (-1, Informative)

bleh-of-the-huns (17740) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968617)

okay.. so where is the evidence....

Re:hmmm (2, Informative)

Cosmik (730707) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968701)

As the article said, SCO is waiting for IBM to supply the evidence. They like to do things back-to-front and inside-out at SCO.

I'm sure Darl and company also kick up a stink at the hardware store when the checkout boys won't assemble Darl's DIY storage rack.

Re:hmmm (1)

digitania (721597) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968826)

Yeah - isn't it interesting that SCO seems to basically be saying that "we're waiting on the defendant to prove our case for us"? I hope McBride and Co. have their graves dug already... Sigline? We don't need no steenkin' sigline...

Re:hmmm (5, Interesting)

WCMI92 (592436) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968884)

" Yeah - isn't it interesting that SCO seems to basically be saying that "we're waiting on the defendant to prove our case for us"? I hope McBride and Co. have their graves dug already"

Which they cannot do. You can't file a lawsuit to use it as a fishing expedition. It is the burden of the plantiff to prove their allegations. Considering that Linux source is available, I don't see why SCaldera needs ANYTHING from IBM to "prove" their "millions of lines" allegations.

The court set the deadline and put SCaldera's discovery on hold UNTIL they showed IBM exactly what they are accused of doing. Seems to me they have not done so. The next hearing will be very interesting. At the very least, Darl and his other brother Darl will have a VERY pissed off judge on their hands...

If they piss the judge off enough, they might have their case thrown out. The judge could even dismiss "with prejustice" meaning the same charges could not be made again. A dismissal would not affect IBM's countersuit.

The judge also could allow the case to proceed, but bar SCO from introducing any additional evidence other than what they just provided... Discovery deadlines are just that... A deadline. The party so ordered MUST turn over what they are ordered to, and then some, if they want to be certain to get that evidence into the court during trial...

If SCO had a case, they should have turned over exactly what they were ORDERED to turn over. But then, as most of us suspect, they DONT have a case, but want to use the spectre of one to get rich off a "pump n dump" while receiving revenue from Microsoft to encourage the FUD machine...

supplement? (5, Funny)

wankledot (712148) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968618)

So where's the 60 page PDF so we can get right on tearing it apart line by line and laughing?

Re:supplement? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968653)

There's a protective order on the case. I'm pretty sure that it applies to those 60 pages.

Re:supplement? (5, Informative)

The Welcome Rain (31576) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968710)

Sadly, that was filed privately. We may not get to see it until the upcoming hearing.

Files and line numbers may be sufficient (5, Insightful)

int2str (619733) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968626)

You can fit a lot of files and line numbers on 60 pages, so I wouldn't dismiss it just because of the "millions of lines of code".

Now my experience with legal documents suggests that it's hard to say much in 60 pages legalese periods, but the note that they complied with the courts request is not enough to speculate on how valid their response is. We will have to wait until the judge (and IBM) have read it.

Re:Files and line numbers may be sufficient (2, Interesting)

Burnon (19653) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968792)

Yeah, and if that's not enough space, you can bzip2 the text and that'll probably do it, and get obfuscation out of it to boot (you know, like they did last time [lemis.com] ).

Re:Files and line numbers may be sufficient (5, Interesting)

cyxs (242710) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968805)

But they haven't yet complied with the order. They only provided part of the answers that IBM Requested and said that once they get IBM's code from AIX that they will be able to answer the reset of the questions.

And if I remeber the judges order was that it wouldn't allow for SCO Motion to Compel till IBMs motions were carried out. Also wouldn't the judge have to give fair amount of time after IBM gets the information for them to go over it and then provide the information that SCO requested. Because IBM has been saying that without knowing what SCO is sueing them over they couldn't provide the data that SCO wanted.

So where's the code? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968628)

Post the damn code already.

I WANT TO PUT MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968629)

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Question (2)

Mephie (582671) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968631)

What does "admitted pro hac vice" mean?

Re:Question (5, Informative)

The Welcome Rain (31576) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968664)

It means that a party's attorney is not licensed to practice law in the state in which the suit is filed, but is so licensed in another state, and the party would like this attorney to help represent them. I believe at least one attorney for each party must be licensed in that state, but others need not be.

Re:Question (1)

Mephie (582671) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968787)

Got it. Thanks for explaining.

Re:Question (-1, Flamebait)

Karamchand (607798) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968675)

learn latin, cocksucker

Re:Question (2, Informative)

manganese4 (726568) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968709)

from google The legal definition of pro hac vice is "for the particular occasion..."

Re:Question (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968725)

What does "admitted pro hac vice" mean?

It means that the person filing the motion has confessed to their unsavory practice of hacking professionally. Sheesh, buy a legal dictionary.

Re:Question (2, Informative)

vpetersen (1008) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968729)

"for this occasion", in Latin (lawyer's 31334 $p3ak)

Re:Question (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968840)

RTFM. You come on to this blatently pro Latin site, don't know shit about Latin and expect not to get modded down after posting such a crass newbie question? The big question is: will this baby run Latin? Or, imagine a forum of these. Or, in Ancient Rome the orgy finds you. etc...

The Chewbacca Defense (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968632)

"Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, SCO's accusers would certainly want you to believe my client doesn't own the rights to Unix, and they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself. But Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk who carried a gun and ran from the mob. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it. That does not make sense. Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor with a bunch of two-foot-tall Ewoks. That does not make sense.

But more important, you have to ask yourself what does this have to do with this case. Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense. Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major Unix company and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and Gentlemen I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.

And so you have to remember when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No. Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury it does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit.

I know SCO seems guilty. But ladies and gentlemen this is Chewbacca. Now think about that for one minute. That does not make sense. Why am I talking about Chewbacca when a company is on the line? Why? I'll tell you why. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. If Chewbacca does not make sense you must acquit. Here look at the monkey , look at the silly monkey.

The defense rests."

Compression? (4, Funny)

BananaJr6000 (564475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968637)

With a compression algorithm like that (millions of lines to 60+ pages)

SCO's IP license would be worth $699 ...but since that compression ratio is impossible (except in Utah) SCO is pretty much done.

Re:Compression? (-1, Offtopic)

Karamchand (607798) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968676)

hahaha how funny

Maybe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968739)

Maybe they fit "Millions of lines" onto 60 pages by just listing all the files in the linux kernel.

Someone test.. make a list of all the files in the linux kernel.. how many pages is it?

Wait a minute (4, Informative)

helix400 (558178) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968638)

It says the supplement exceeds 60 pages. So we don't know the actual size.

On a side note, any legal reason why they would say "exceed 60 pages". Why not 50 pages, or 70 pages, or whatever?

Re:Wait a minute (1)

Gr33nNight (679837) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968663)

I remember watching a movie where Nick Nolte mentioned that he has been shot over 7 times. I always wondered WTF. I suppose "exceeds 60 pages" means there is less than 70 pages.

Most likely 61-65 pages..... (5, Funny)

reality-bytes (119275) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968749)

It's most likely that it consists of 61-65 pages as more that 65 pages would probably be referred to as "Almost 70 pages". ;)

Re:Wait a minute (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968689)

That's cause it's less than 70. If it was more than 70, they would have said it exceeds 70 pages.

We don't know the actual, but we know it's 61-70.

Re:Wait a minute (1)

Mephie (582671) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968694)

Of course it exceeded 60 pages. After they used double-line spacing to make it look like there's a lot of information. Maybe they're hoping Blue's lawyers won't have time to read more than sixty whole pages!

Re:Wait a minute (4, Funny)

Bingo Foo (179380) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968696)

why they would say "exceed 60 pages". Why not 50 pages

Because 50 does not exceed 60.

Re:Wait a minute (1)

helix400 (558178) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968721)

Ya, the question did sound quite right. What I really meant was:

Why did they give us a definite number of 60, but say it exceeds it? Is there a legal rule saying after 60 you just say 60? If so, why is this legal cutoff at 60, and not say, 50? Or 70?

Re:Wait a minute (1)

The Welcome Rain (31576) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968794)

I suppose it is possible that the response is thousands of pages long, but I can see no reason why SCO would stipulate only that it was over 60 pages. I have seen no previous motion to restrict supplements to 60 pages, and such a number would be ludicrously small for even a small lawsuit.

I therefore doubt that the supplement is much over 60 pages long.

Re:Wait a minute (2, Informative)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968795)

Because if it comes to 60 pages and one paragraph the sworn document would contain a legal falsity.

Pretty simple really.

They're using the largest round number possible (to impress) without looking silly or lying.

KFG

Re:Wait a minute (0, Troll)

tarquin_fim_bim (649994) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968876)

It's rather like the forty days and forty nights thing in the bible, absolute bollocks.

60 pages is not a million, but it's quite a chunk (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968640)

If SCO's claims that this code is in fact their own turns out to be true, doesn't that mean that their case has solid legs to stand on?

How interesting it would be for all versions of Linux before this code is removed to be in violation of SCO's copyright.

Re:60 pages is not a million, but it's quite a chu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968670)

If the Iraqi Information Minister's claims turn out to be true, doesn't that mean the US has lost the war in Iraq?

Re:60 pages is not a million, but it's quite a chu (5, Interesting)

yeremein (678037) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968707)

Keep in mind that the 60+ pages comprises SCO's entire response. There were ten interrogetories SCO was compelled to answer. "List all the infringing code" was just one of those.

Besides, SCO hasn't shown anything credible in several tries so far. I'm betting on more of the same.

Even still, there are two points of fallback:

1. Novell contests ownership of SVR5 copyrights--SCO needs to beat Novell in court before it can succeed against an end user in a copyright infringement claim
2. The BSDi settlement questions whether SVR5 can even be protected by copyright in the first place

Sorry guy, but.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968717)

Just removing the code won't exonerate you, or any Linux user. That would be like me saying "hey I stole from that 7-11 yesterday, but I'm not doing it any more, so I am not guilty".

The law don't work like that, chump

Millions of lines in 60 pages (5, Funny)

bluephone (200451) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968645)

They use a Bullshit Compressor. Politicians have been using it for years. Thta's hwo you get 10 pounds of manure in a 5 pound bag.

Re:Millions of lines in 60 pages (5, Funny)

bartwol (117819) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968883)

You've got it reversed. Politicians use a Bullshit Expander. It gives you 10 pounds of bullshit out of 5 pounds of substance. It is because SCO previously used the Bullshit Expander that they now find themselves shrunken back to size.

Are we going to learn our lessons, or what? (5, Insightful)

vkg (158234) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968647)

So, ok, the SCO case might be beginning to crumble. Might take a little longer, and who knows, with M$ looking for any shot it can take, there might be more problems in future.

So what are we going to do about it? Are there any measures the open source community can take to prevent contaimination of the open code base with improperly cleared code? Can we look at this as a subset of the more general "malware CVS committs?" problem? Should we have coders sign contracts stating that they have all appropriate rights to what they are about to commit so that we can offload liability to them?

Open Source Programmer insurance couldn't be far behind that....

Anyway, your thoughs please!

Re:Are we going to learn our lessons, or what? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968718)

Is asking questions all you're able to do? Thank you anywa, fucker

Re:Are we going to learn our lessons, or what? (5, Insightful)

burnin1965 (535071) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968776)

My thoughts? It seems you are assuming there is a lesson to be learned here for the open source community, I suggest there will be no lesson to learn until we get some results from this case.

Furthermore, I believe that if there is a lesson to be learned then it is a lesson for all software developement models. Just because you cannot see the source code in a proprietary model does not mean they aren't using stolen code.

In fact, considering that most EULAs provide virtually no protection for the end user in the event that a proprietary vendor is using stolen code I would have to say that all end users should start demanding open source to ensure they are protected.

So, considering the vast volumes of open source code out there and there is only one court case, which appears to many including myself to be a facade, I'd say the mere fact that open source is open provides a significant deterrent to contributors to introduce stolen code, they will be caught.

burnin

Re:Are we going to learn our lessons, or what? (5, Insightful)

6.023e23 (738640) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968812)

How does one go about critiquing an Open Source programmer's code as far as IP ownership goes? Or ANY programmer for that matter? You're taking it on their word that the code they submit was written by them and has no encumberances. The best you can do, IMO, would be to have signed affidavits from the programmers to such effect - proving the IP ownership would still be all but impossible. And how many programmers do you think would want to bother with signing an affidavit for every project to which they contribute? And how many projects are going to want to deal with the overhead? Of course you could require licensing/registration of all programmers... "Excuse me sir, but do you have a license to operate that there keyboard?" Methinks not.

Pay your liscense fee you greedy Neo-cons (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968650)

Dr Howard Dean
SCO is one of my staunchest $upporter$

I WANT TO PUT MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968652)

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Clear violation. (5, Funny)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968658)

Their document is clearly integrating Adobe Acrobat technology into their software without permission. But don't tell them... wait for the damages to pile up first. It wouldn't be fair for Adobe to have to show any damages before they can claim copious ammounts of money.

Ryan Fenton

getting to the point (5, Funny)

Marsala (4168) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968659)

Millions of lines on sixty pages? How silly.

Yeah.

Well.

You know, you don't really even need 60 pages to say, "We ownz0r all of it. SCO > *. Pwnt."

More info and analysis on GROKLAW (5, Informative)

hcg50a (690062) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968660)

Check this [groklaw.net] out.

Fonts (1)

tirenours (583610) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968665)

Millions of lines on sixty pages? How silly.

Not really. They are masters at playing with fonts [slashdot.org] . They really can do miracles!

Al Gore Invented SCO Demands for Evidence (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968666)

Without him we wouldn't be in this mess. Because we wouldn't have the Internet of course...

Just Pay your $699 Fee thats all I ask (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968754)

Al Gore
After all $199 goes to the campaign of my good friend Dr Howard Dean
Maybe HE can win down there in Florida I mean I couldn't not even my Homo State of Tennessee

GORE DIDNT SAY THAT YOU LYING RIGHTWING COCKSUCKER (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968821)

What he actually said was that, when he was in the Senate, he took the initiative in creating SCO demands for evidence, which is facutally correct, despite what Rush "Pillhead" Limbaugh told you.

Quick! (2, Funny)

DeltaSigma (583342) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968671)

Someone buy Darl a copy of the Linux 2.4 Poster with a little sticky note describing how microscopic sixty pages is compared to the rest of the kernel before he embarrases himself! Awe... too late. Well, guess it's time to start tracing the commits back to SCO employees... or dispute the contract between SCO and Novell... or let IBM spank them with patent infringement... Or... well... yeah I really wish I'd have shorted their stock at $20 right now...

Ummm, where's Groklaw? (0, Offtopic)

nyquist (700) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968672)

grolaw.net seems to have disappeared

Re:Ummm, where's Groklaw? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968799)

grolaw.net seems to have disappeared

Try groklaw.net instead.

Sounds like they won't meet the Judge's threshold (5, Informative)

Teahouse (267087) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968673)

The judge was very specific in December. She demanded forthright and overwhelming examples of the offending code. She said she would not allow the case to move forward unless it was submitted. She further stated she would not compel IBM the task of providing all development and and beta data unless it was required to answer SCO's disclosure. 60 pages is not a sufficient brief to even outline the supposed infractions SCO is throwing about, let alone actual instances of IP theft! A divorce case can easily have a 200 page evidentiary outline! Unless there is more we aren't hearing about, there is a good chance this will not meet the court's demands and the case will be dismissed.

Re:Sounds like they won't meet the Judge's thresho (1)

marine_recon (652565) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968730)

microdots. they are going to put all the code into microdots, and then "lose" the microscope

I WANT TO PUT MY PEE PEE IN YOUR POO POO HOLE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968674)


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"...all non-priveleged information..." (4, Interesting)

numbski (515011) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968677)

Translation:

The general public still won't get to see the evidence.

By putting all 'priveleged' information in an addendum....we won't get to see the infringing code. :\

Go fig. Put up or shut up my arse.

To quote: (contintued) (1)

numbski (515011) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968735)

2. SCO also has produced all non-privileged responses requested by IBM. The only exception to such is the files of certain officers and directors for whom SCO could not obtain the requested materials during the holidays with sufficient time to review the documents.

Basically, if they deemed the information priveleged, they didn't open it to the general public. Figures.

FYI, the full list of Interrogatories (5, Informative)

ThisIsAnExampleAccou (718430) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968681)

FYI, here is a list of the Interrogatories that SCO was supposed to answer. From the looks of it, they did not answer number 10 or 11.

INTERROGATORY NO. 1: seeks specific identification of all alleged trade secrets and confidential or proprietary information that SCO alleges IBM misappropriated or misused. This information is requested by product, file and line of code.

INTERROGATORY NO. 2: For each alleged trade secret and any confidential or proprietary information identified in response to Interrogatory No. 1, Interrogatory No. 2 seeks further identification of: (a) all persons who have or had rights to the same; (b) the nature and sources of SCO's rights in the same; and (c) efforts to maintain secrecy or confidentiality of the same.

INTERROGATORY NO. 3: For each alleged trade secret and any confidential or proprietary information identified in response to Interrogatory No. 1, Interrogatory No. 3 seeks the identity of all persons to whom the same was disclosed and the details of such disclosure. In particular, this interrogatory seeks: (a) the date of disclosure; (b) the terms of disclosure; (c) the documents relating to disclosure; (d) all places where the trade secret and/or confidential or proprietary information may be found or accessed.

INTERROGATORY NO. 4: For each alleged trade secret and any confidential or proprietary information identified in response to Interrogatory No. 1, Interrogatory No. 4 seeks information regarding each instance in which plaintiff alleges that IBM misappropriated or misused the same. In particular, this interrogatory seeks (a) the date of the alleged misuse or misappropriation; (b) the persons involved; c) the manner of misuse or misappropriation; and (d) the location of any method or code in any IBM product, Linux, open source or the public domain.

INTERROGATORY NO. 5: For each alleged trade secret and any confidential or proprietary information identified in response to Interrogatory No. 1, Interrogatory No. 5 seeks identification of (a) all agreements relating thereto, and (b) all copyrights and patents relating thereto, including but not limited to the owners, licensors, licensees, assignors or assignees thereof.

INTERROGATORY NO. 6: For each alleged trade secret and any confidential or proprietary information identified in response to Interrogatory No. 1, Interrogatory No. 6 seeks (a) the origin of the code or method, including where, when and by whom created; (b) all products in which the code or method is included or upon which it is based (in whole or in part).

INTERROGATORY NO. 7: seeks a description of each instance in which IBM allegedly engaged in unfair competition, including but not limited to: (a) the dates of such conduct, (b) the persons involved, and (c) the specific manner of unfair competition.

INTERROGATORY NO. 8: seeks the identification of all agreements with which IBM allegedly interfered, including but not limited to: (a) the date of interference, (b) the persons involved in the interference, (c) the manner of interference, (d) the actions (if any) IBM encouraged licensees to take, (e) the actions, if any, such licensees took as a result of IBM's inducement/encouragement, (f) the trade secret or proprietary information (if any) involved in the alleged interference.

INTERROGATORY NO. 9: seeks identification of all agreements that IBM has allegedly breached, including but not limited to: (a) the date of breach, (b) the persons involved, and (c) the specific manner of breach.

INTERROGATORY NO. 10: Separately, for each of plaintiff's claims for relief, please identify all persons (including but not limited to present or former employees of plaintiff or plaintiff's predecessors in interest) with knowledge relating to plaintiff's claims and contentions and the general nature of, or the categories of, facts known by each person.

INTERROGATORY No.11: Please identify all products ever marketed, sold or distributed by plaintiff or plaintiff's predecessors in interest, including but not limited to the terms on which each was marketed, sold or distributed.

INTERROGATORY NO. 12: Please identify, with specificity (by file and line of code), (a) all source code and other material in Linux (including but not limited to the Linux kernel, any Linux operating sytem and any Linux distribution) to which plaintiff has rights; and (b) the nature of plaintiff's rights, including but not limited to whether and how the code or other material derives from UNIX.

INTERROGATORY NO. 13: For each line of code and other materials identified in response to Interrogatory No. 12, please state whether (a) IBM has infringed plaintiff's rights, and for any rights IBM is alleged to have infringed, describe in detail how IBM is alleged to have infringed plaintiff's rights; and (b) whether plaintiff has ever distributed code or other material or otherwise made it available to the public, as part of a Linux distribution or otherwise, and, if so, the circumstances under which it was distributed or otherwise made available, including but not limited to the product(s) in which it was distributed or made available, and the terms under which is was distributed or made available (such as under the GPL or any other license).

Re:FYI, the full list of Interrogatories (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968846)

Dude! If you're going to karma-whore, at least mention the source [groklaw.net] !

Um... Excuse Me (0, Funny)

LamerX (164968) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968688)

I have something very relevant to say regarding SCO's Evidence... Its very detailed information... Okay here goes...

BLAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

MOOHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

Ahem...

SCO Products (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968691)

Does anyone even buy SCO products these days?
Who in their right mind would? Does anyone know of anyone investing in SCO products? If so, are they drinking?

Re:SCO Products (1)

baggins2002 (654972) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968886)

McDonald's, Eckerd's are just a few of the companies which are listed as purchasing SCO products. Oh yeah and microsoft.

What would happen if in the upcoming release of M$ Unix server they find Linux code? Can SCO sue them?

SCO Bending the Truth (5, Insightful)

tobechar (678914) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968695)

Can't SCO get into trouble for lying about 6 million lines of code when the code fits into 6 pages?

There has to be some type of legal mechanism that would penalize them for this. Quite the oversight if you ask me.

SCO has what is known as "Dark Code" (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968697)

Each line of which is over 10,000 lines!

Re:SCO has what is known as "Dark Code" (1)

tobechar (678914) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968744)

Indeed it would have to be.

They could have made a large 600 part tarball and bz2'd the data....

Just Wait... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968699)

Until all that great evidence that IBM provides comes in -- SCO will be vindicated!
The document itself ... refers to a sixty-page supplement which lists the offending lines, and asserts that it can find more when IBM produces ... the evidence demanded of them by SCO.
Big Blue will die by its own hand! -- That'll teach 'em to violate the I.P. of others!

Will be waiting. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968705)

SCO has shown that when they say they have done something, the chances are good they haven't. I can't imagine they'd refuse the court's direct order in this case-- especially since the court case is on hold until they cough up. But I'll still be waiting to see whether
  • IBM is satisfied by SCO's response.
  • IBM says "you haven't answered our questions at all".
  • IBM is dancing in the aisles becuase SCO's evidence amounts to 60 pages of files taken from BSD and header files ruled as uncopyrightable in the BSD case.

No ruling in BSD case (4, Interesting)

ebcdic (39948) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968783)

There was no ruling in the BSD case. It was settled out of court. You might take the judges comment's as suggesting what another judge might decide, but they do not constitute a legal precedent.

Re:No ruling in BSD case (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968861)

True, there was no ruling in the BSD case, but I think the original poster was saying that if code is actually BSD code from *BSD sources, SCO has nothing. Even though we cannot know how the case was settled, we can see through archives what was removed from BSD after the case.

This is dragging on far too long (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968708)

How long can they really drag this on without proving anything ?

This should have been thrown out of court a long time ago, unless they provide something that holds water.

I just can't wait for this to be over, mainly so I can sit back and laugh at how dumb SCO has been. I seriously belive, it will cost them the company when people (including the judge) laugh at how they claim ownership over things like:

printf("Hello world!");

int i = 0;

#include ... ok, maybe I went too far. But, you get my point, chances are it will be something so dumb, they will have to hold there heads down in shame as they leave the court.

Wait... (2, Interesting)

Komi (89040) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968716)

SCO repsonded fully to the demand for evidence, but they've also got more when IBM answers their questions. If there's more to show later, then how could they have responded fully?

komi

Hatch (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968719)

I know it's kind of a common last name, but is the Hatch of the "Hatch, James & Dodge" firm representing SCO related to US Senator Orrin Hatch? It'd make sense, presuming absolute ignorance of copyright laws is a genetic anomoly.

Yes. (4, Informative)

mcc (14761) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968800)

Yes. [com.com]
SCO has made no secret in recent months that it hired high-profile attorney David Boies to spearhead its case against IBM, but the company's legal representation in Utah courts is also noteworthy. The company retained Brent O. Hatch and Mark F. James of the law firm Hatch, James & Dodge. Hatch is the son of Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, a representative for SCO confirmed Monday.

So, in response to an order to produce evidence (5, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968724)

what they have done is produce an abstract.

An abstract that merely refers to an unsubmitted index.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm, guys? That's not evidence.

The line listing is evidence.

You guys can make up any inhouse doofy theory of law you wish, but the fact of the matter is, and the court has made some attempt to explain this to you and placed you under compulsion, the claimant must produce the evidence that their claim is justified. The defendant need do nothing until such time because the defendant is only required to defend itself against the filed evidence.

Which part of this don't your high payed lawyers understand?

If you're lucky the judge will say, "Ummmmmmmm, nice try, you've got one more chance at getting it right. I presume counsel has had at least basic training in the rules of evidence?. . . Good. Please apply that knowledge in future."

If it were me I'd simply toss their asses out for noncompliance and a side order of legal arrogance.

KFG

Re:So, in response to an order to produce evidence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968893)

throw them out of court and start some criminal and civil suits about their protection racket of offering to accept license fees from companies they intend to bring into court. That's just outright illegal, it would be nice to see D. Mc B. try to squirm out of that...

SCO complied, sorta (4, Interesting)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968733)

According to SCO they complied, but if you read their notice, they also note an exception.
The only exception to such production is the files of certain officers and directors for whom SCO could not obtain the requested materials during the holidays with sufficient time to review the documents.

This means that they couldn't get all the documents because people were on vacation. Let's see: they got the court order December 5. I wonder how many developers were given a mandatory 6 month vacation on a deserted island to start December 6th?

Don't bet on a buyout. SCO will die alone (5, Insightful)

bckrispi (725257) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968736)

IBM, I believe has no interest in purchasing SCO as part of a settlement. There's no chance in hell that M$ will pick them up. They are still appealing the fact that they are a Monopoly based soley on the fact that they own Windows. The FTC/SEC would never approve a buyout that would make MS the owners of both Windows and Unix. That would be, like, a monopoly^2

SCaldera seems REALLY desperate... (4, Insightful)

WCMI92 (592436) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968757)

60-ish pages... That can't point to all that much, and can't possibly answer all they were required to respond to.

SCaldera's PR machine has been in meltdown after all the negative events that have happened to them this week... Novell's release of their legal correspondance, Novell's indemnification, the OSDL/IBM/Intel (Intel openly joining on our side is a MAJOR event in itself), all VERY VERY bad news for them, and their stock started to tumble.

The only cash the company formerly but really known as Caldera is their stock price. If that crashes, so do they.

The SEC really needs to get involved, NOW. They are not listing the possible risks involved in losing this case in their SEC filings. They aren't listing the risk of Novell's claims regarding being owed 95% of the Microsoft/Sun and other "Darlgeld" being collected...

I think the next step is Novell files a suit against SCaldera, asking for summary judgement regarding money being owed to them...

60 Pages is Enough... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968758)

60 Pages is Enough. Example:

File a, line 1-800. File b, line 1-600.

I can get to millions of lines real fast like that.

Millions of lines (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7968761)

(Hold off on the troll mods people, read and think first)

"Millions of lines on sixty pages, how silly"?

Now that's silly. Trying to make something look silly by using statistics, have you even seen the pages? The fact is, if SCO can prove it's case in sixty pages (or more if this is only part of it) in a court room with a presiding judge then it will win, end of story.

What we're going to see is SCO drill down to the most tiniest bit of code with their so called expert witnesses asking where the code came from and how it got there. We may even see some linux kernel developers subpoened? This could get ugly. Once you get to microscopic levels of looking at code and a few sleazy tricks (observational selection of code) then a judge might start to be convinced. You won't be able use the argument, "well that's just some code your honour in an ocean of code".

No problem. (5, Funny)

ChangeOnInstall (589099) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968765)

Assuming you can fit 60 lines of code on a 8.5"x11" sheet with in a 10 point font, you can fit 3600 lines of code on 60 pages.

You can thus fit 3600x4=14,400 lines of code on 60 pages in a 5pt font.

In a 2.5pt font, you can fit 14,400x4 lines of code on 60 pages, or 57,600 lines.

1.25pt: 230,400

0.675pt: 921,600

So "more than 60 pages" is more than adequate.

Slashdotted? (1)

L. J. Beauregard (111334) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968785)

I clicked, and Konqueror popped up a progress dialog. Which made no progress.

Is it slashdotted already? Or is SCUM experiencing another of its convienient DDOS attacks?

Link to the sixty-page supplemental. (-1, Offtopic)

skitz0 (89196) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968791)

Here it is. [pooloop.com]

If it's anything like last time, (2, Interesting)

Progman3K (515744) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968816)

It'll just be a case of the original developers stepping forward, like last time and it'll end, finally.

I could be off here... (4, Interesting)

shaitand (626655) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968864)

But I was under the impression that SCO was required to put ALL it's cards on the table AND THEN the judge would talk about whether or not IBM hadn't presented all the requested information.

SCO's statement makes it clear they are saying this is a sample only and they will cough up a little more after IBM gives what they want. Isn't this liable to piss off a judge who explicitly ordered they present everything?

Is the end near? (2, Funny)

Jerk City Troll (661616) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968892)

I sure do hope that these litigious bastards [sco.com] will finally get the miserable end they deserve! Do you suppose the judge will scoff at this nonsense now?

Microfilm the way to go. (1)

salmonz (697297) | more than 10 years ago | (#7968902)

SCO has their evidence on Microfilm sheets so they can save every penny when IBM, Novell, and the Linux community sues their ass.
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