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Natural Selection Half-Life Mod Reaches 3.0 Beta

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the only-the-strong-mods-survive dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 46

Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to the official Natural Selection page, where V3.0 Beta of the Half-Life mod "hybrid first-person/real-time strategy game" is now available. According to the page, changes include 10 new maps, as well as the addition of Natural Selection: Combat, a " fast and furious gameplay mode focusing on intense action. Combat games generally last less than ten minutes, and require very little knowledge to play." The mod can now be played using the add-on's "official Steam support", and will be "...listed under the 'My Games' section (not as a 3rd-party mod)", a laudable achievement for the Natural Selection developers, who've also implemented vital "skulk prediction fixes" for this update.

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Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (3, Informative)

sladelink (536962) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086052)

Although they say on their site that NS 3.0 supports Steam (which most players hate) and WonID, they don't make any mention about how to play it without Steam. The official Natural Selection forums are down right now, so this should help anyone trying to play the game without Steam. After downloading it and letting it install to your steam account directory, make a copy of the nsp directory and place it in your Half-Life dir. Same arguments apply for 3.0 as in 2.1, but replace the -game ns with -game nsp. Still though, I'm only able to see two active 3.0 public servers. Could be because it has gotten such an ill reception from the NS crowd, or maybe the clan servers are playing private for a bit. I would sure be interested in finding out what's up.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8086075)

Just installed and played it using steam ... I'm showing 103 servers up, with a majority of them filled - so I'd say it has received a pretty decent reception from the NS crowd...

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086122)

Steam removed support for bots, killing single player version of CS. (steam has CS 1.6) I kept classic CS(1.5) installed for Bot support.

I'm pretty happy with steam in general, but I think they are keeping bots out (single player) to make people buy Condition Zero.

But I suspect that will change when HL2 comes out, and people port CS to it, with real bot internal Bot support.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086653)

Let's not forget that Valve didn't just pull the bots, oh no, they pulled them TWO DAYS after the changelog was posted, and snuck the info into it.

They were pulled with no warning or explanation. In fact on several occasions Valve outright denied it.

Essentially those who beta tested the bots, like me and many of my friends, got screwed over royally by Valve. If they've been up front and said "Look, were removing the bots" then fair play to them. Without prior warning it would have sucked, but I'd have no problem with it. What REALLY pisses me off is the duplicitous nature in which they actually did it. Sneaking a huge modification to the game into a two day old changelog is a sleazy thing to do and created extremely bad feelings amongst all my friends who were, up until that point, huge Valve fans and planned to buy CZ. Then Valve pretty much said "Fuck you, you want bots, you gotta buy CZ"... And now everyone I know has moved onto another FPS and Valve have probably lost about $1000 in sales just from my gaming group alone.

Needless to say we laughed when the source for HL2 was downloaded. Fuck you Valve, you screwed over the CS fans, cry me a fucking river Newell. Go back to Microsoft and sleep under your desk. (The main guy who was whining after the source was downloaded is Gabe Newell, who while at Microsoft spent a month sleeping in his office. Explains a lot about Valve...

Incidentally, when did Slashdot become a mod announcement site?

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1) troll (593289) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086733)

I keep an offline copy of 1.6 beta with TurtleRockStudio(think ConditionZero)'s CSBot 1.0.

Good for lanning/botting/testing stuff/working on jumps. Granted, it is an old copy so it has old vulns (throwing shield through walls and such), but its better than nothing.

google: csbot

The only reason to keep 1.5 now is watching your old 1.3/1.4/1.5 demos. I wish valve would release a 'Media Edtion' of cstrike that plays all demos 1.0 and up and better controls and record options for people making movies.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (4, Informative)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 10 years ago | (#8087864)

Few CS players will move to CS2, because HL2 will be written well. No more "click on the head, get a head shot" bullshit like in HL/CS. CS players, as a general rule, are incapable of dealing with engines where you have to lead targets for motion and lag. This revelation only recently came to me. I play CS rarely, but after many years I never understood why I performed so poorly. About a month ago someone actually explained to me how aim works in CS (just click on your target). All this time I had been leading my targets. This rift is not easily crossed, and is why CS2, if it ever exists, will not draw a significant number of people from CS.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 10 years ago | (#8088629)

I'm a tribes player that moved to CS because Tribes1 finally started to die off. With disc shooting you had to lead, its part of the whole game.

Moving to CS, the whole "instant shot" does make some sense, they add recoil and reload time, which other games dont.

HL2 engine is made for modifications, even if they dont port CS, you cant copyright the Idea of CS. But if theres any legal action, expect mods to be named COPS, or SWAT, or Police Force, etc.. It will be interesting.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8096345)

So you think lag is a positive thing? Don't you find it a little stupid that the game changes when you get to a competitive level? CS has better net code than other games. I played Q1 and I loved the netcode but HL is 10 years ahead of ID in terms of netcode.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 10 years ago | (#8096571)

No, lag isnt a positive thing. But to ignore lag you have to give the client power, which IS a bad thing. Allowing the client to tell the server "hey, i swear i hit that guy, no matter what his client says!" and get away with it is just WRONG. That is why there are so many hacks for HL (CS included). But, even ignoring lag, games should still require you to lead movement.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8098741)

what the heck are u talking about!?

in most games such as CS/HL/Q3, when a bullet is fired the game traces a line along the bullet's path and damages the first thing it comes in contact with, instantly.

if you want to implement a game which u should *lead* your targets, all you have to do is make it so the bullet acts like a projectile (think a REALLY fast rocket..) the game must update the bullet's position over time

this has nothing to do with the engine code as it can be implemented in the game code as of now... the reason it's not implemented is because of the overhead of having the game update bullet positions all the time and the ~50ms of lag a normal game encounters makes up for the bullet delay anyways..

also, i read in an interview that HL2 will not be treating bullets like projectiles.. so it will be using the same thing as CS

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8108985)

Err, this isn't some DoomII plasma gun. In real life, you don't have to lead your targets at the distances encountered in CS.

I think CS generally requires *more* skill than standard FPSes, since you die so easily teamwork becomes more important.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8086241)

Batman touched my junk liberally. he strapped me in to his batmobile and he couldnt keep his offensive hands off of me. he was performing many red flag touches. i couldnt believe what the fuck was going on. i told batman the city would not approve of a millionaire touching an underage kid for free.

Can you believe it? Batman did all this. He picked me off the street, strapped my arms and legs down in the batmobile's passenger seat, and just wouldn't stop fondling my cock'n'balls.

They definately were red flag touches. the goddamn referee he had in the back seat kept on raising up this red flag every time he touched my junk but did batman care? NO WAY! He just kept on doing it. I couldn't believe what the fuck was going on, indeed. I pleaded with Mr. Wayne but to no avail. I told him the city would not approve of such a wealthy man touching an underage kid like me (at the time I was 13) without at least compensating me for the trauma and the use of my body as his own personal plaything.

This got to him, worrying about his image. He continued to fondle me, all the while ignoring the referee's red flags. Then he drove the batmobile to my house and *ejected the seat I was in*! It was amazing. But surprisingly, after I woke up the next morning, my bank account had $150k in it! Can you believe it?

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8096916)

so did you whup his ass or what?

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

Apreche (239272) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086730)

You can't play it without steam. The installer for 3.0 beta installs the game directly into steam automatically. That's it. Anyone who has a problem with steam can just shut their trap. It works perfectly on my machine, so if you have problems it is your fault. And the server finder and friends network make steam 1000 times more awesome than old half-life. Heck I can alt-tab out of a game and not lose sound. Steam rules.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

Jackazz (572024) | more than 10 years ago | (#8089288)

The reason you only see two servers is that the copying thing you are doing does not work! 3.0 is STEAM ONLY as far as I know. Just download it and go to town, Steam really isn't that bad.

Re:Quick problem / fix with NS 3.0 beta (1)

GTarrant (726871) | more than 10 years ago | (#8090343)

My gaming group was playing NS 2/2.1 over WON well after Steam came out (look up "unmitigated disaster" and I think Steam is in the dictionary) and we had a list of servers that we generally played on. It was also POSSIBLE to play 2.1 under Steam, but no one that I knew did. However, with this release, -every- server that we used to play on, has switched to the Steam version, essentially because despite the fact that the web page says it supports both WON and Steam, it seems to "default" to Steam. So while there may be some WON 3.0 servers out there, there don't seem to be very many.

So, alas, everyone has installed the POS that is Steam (I already had it installed but unused) and they got to feel the joy that I did when I installed - the crashes, the lockups, the "copying data over" then failing and having to redownload everything. Oh yes.

However, they say that it will now be under "My games" or whatever, and not under "3rd party games"...however, the NS 3.0 I installed is definitely under "3rd party games."

Even if they get a "fully compatible" WON that large groups of people have defaulted to Steam, one wonders if the WON version will ever get as much play. (I know my Steam install, way back when, completely destroyed my vanilla HL installation despite me telling it to leave it alone).

I don't want to be cranky (2, Insightful)

danalien (545655) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086117)

but, what still bugs me, is that they haven't yet implemented a 'html only' version of their page....

kinda makes it hard to browse for info...

Re:I don't want to be cranky (3, Informative) troll (593289) | more than 10 years ago | (#8087269)

Its always been there and defaults if you don't have flash installed. If you do, its right under the monitor looking thing at the bottom of the menu: 'html menu [] '.

Re:I don't want to be cranky (1)

jpop32 (596022) | more than 10 years ago | (#8087276)

but, what still bugs me, is that they haven't yet implemented a 'html only' version of their page....

Like this? []

Steam... (1)

PerpetualMotion (550623) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086146)

Is it just me or is Valve trying to ruin their product with this crap so people will upgrade to whatever comes next? I haven't dusted off my HL cd since a long and painful encounter with steam which ended with what amounted to me deleting the directory because the uninstaller wouldn't work anymore.

Why play NS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8086209)

Why play NS on Half Life when you can get the same style gameplay - only better in most of the C&C (Command & Conquer) series of games? :P

Re:Why play NS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8089866)

Have you even played Natural Selection?

Natural Selection is first-person (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8092960)

Only a human commander sees the top-down "strategy game" view. Everyone else in the game is playing a first-person shooter.


Need For Speed: Undergound fucking sucks (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8086227)

What a turd.

I am so glad I didn't pay for that pile of poo.

Natural Selection mod (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8086234)

So, the Natural Selection mod. What's it all about? Is it good, or is it whack?

Re:Natural Selection mod (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8086349)

*you're* whack, you fucking crack monkey. What is this, the new form of troll-ism?

Re:Natural Selection mod (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8088151)

It's sad to see what trolls have sunk to recently. It grieves me to realize that the Golden Age of trolling has faded into the glorious past. O Trolls of yesteryear, wherefore art thou gone? The so-called trolls of today are shadows, nothing better than hollow wraiths trying in vain to fill the voids their older and wiser predecessors left in their wake.

The "community" trolls are by far the lamest-- you know who you are. A true troll needs no affiliation, needs only to know that they have suckered a poor schlep into responding.

Aye, there's the rub: the definition of trolling has changed. Trolling now means, "Being a pain in the ass," not an excercise in baiting and mental stimulation.


Re:Natural Selection mod (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8090250)

But then there's also considering the question of having played Natural Selection as an actual question.

There is *one* Command and Conquer game that features first person play. All of the rest are straight RTS.

Natural Selection features RTS interface for *one* person at a time. The rest of the players and one entire team play solely as an FPS.

Asking why somebody would play NS when C&C features so much more refined gameplay begs the question of whether the person asking is talking out of their ass or not.

Re:Natural Selection mod (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8090276)


Wrong thread. :)

Re:Natural Selection mod (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8096451)

Having played C&C renegade (The hybrid) I can say it is not as good as NS for strategie, both teams are identical which also ruins much of the fun. The FPS part of the game has more weapons and more potential for individual heroism (If going 10-1 makes you a hero as opposed to accomplishing a task in NS).

Yesterday Killed (1)

Apreche (239272) | more than 10 years ago | (#8086749)

Me and my roomate downloaded and started playing this yesterday after we sat around wondering why nobody was playing WON NS we found out the beta came out.

Let me tell you. It is freakin' awesome. The game is nearing perfection. And the combat maps, which I was very skeptical ofl, are actually a ton of fun and very awesome. Great job NS guys.

On thing though. We were supposed to do a bunch of homework yesterday, but since NS came out our day was shot. I guess its all work and no play today.

Incorrect story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8086774)

The mod can now be played using the add-on's "official Steam support", and will be "...listed under the 'My Games' section (not as a 3rd-party mod)"

This is infact not the case at the moment, but it should be at a mystery date in the future when Valve actually do this. This might take several weeks/months though.

Noobs in Selection (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8087379)

Natural selection is the best teamplay game in the world. The co-ordination that the marines need to win a round is second to none. The biggest problem with the game is noobs can fook it up for everyone. I think lowering the learning curve and adding more straight violence will simply bring the counter-strikers. What a shame :(

Re:Noobs in Selection (1)

Entropius (188861) | more than 10 years ago | (#8087745)

They did that. It's called NS Combat--basically Natural Selection with the RTS elements removed, and just lots of things to shoot/chew on.

Natural Selection--even the full version--really isn't that complex.

Re:Noobs in Selection (2, Interesting)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8088013)

Of course not but neither is chess by nature. However the level of balance achieved offered divergent strategies for victory. The base switch the research tree, the hive grab the HMG rush and these are just a few of the more obvious strategies, not to mention the difficulties involved in getting 12 year olds to guard an important point for more than 5 seconds. PLLEASSSEE I'll give you a lolly.

Re:Noobs in Selection (1)

Entropius (188861) | more than 10 years ago | (#8094940)


"If you stay at that node for 10 seconds I'll drop you a shotty..."

Re:Noobs in Selection (2, Interesting)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8096427)

I played back when there was no voice comm muting (or vote kicking, Imagine the trolling)and there were problems with 12 year olds spamming. The other team couldn't see it so you had to deal with it and it was the responsibility of the Commander to babysit. Maybe others had diffrent techniques to social engineer the little bastards into not wrecking the game but mine involved cajoling, rewards, and keeping in mind that they just want to kill kill kill. Which is fine if one of your soldiers wants to do it, everyone else can just back him up. I got an invite to write the faq's for NS 3.0 (Though I haven't played it yet), maybe I'll write some "How not to freak out" When you command immature useless players faq's.

And how much blacker could it get? (1)

Dr. Smeegee (41653) | more than 10 years ago | (#8089210)

The answer is none: None more black.

Life after half-life (1)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 10 years ago | (#8089743)

Sad I know, but I only just finished Half-life a couple of days ago (i'm a slow player and I started late).

Now thats finished, what other mods are there out there for Half-life that I can give a go? What do you recommend?

FWIW, I don't have access to the internet on my home PC so multi-player/internet games are completely out.


Re:Life after half-life (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8090246)

There's lots of single-player maps available - here's a good listing courtesy of Ten Four Maps [] . Have a look through, see if there's anything you like.

Re:Life after half-life (1)

Thornae (53316) | more than 10 years ago | (#8091000)

Try Poke646 [] . You won't be sorry. It's everything Opposing Forces should have been, and it's free.

Re:Life after half-life (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8096390)

You will need to look at older games. They removed support for single player offline with STEAM.

Great. Just great. (2, Insightful)

ForemastJack (58751) | more than 10 years ago | (#8089823)

Quoth the write-up:

"Combat games generally last less than ten minutes, and require very little knowledge to play."

Because that's just what the First Person Shooter genre needed: dumbing down.

Re:Great. Just great. (2, Interesting)

magic (19621) | more than 10 years ago | (#8094348)

I think that means relative to regular Natural Selection, which has a steep learning curve.

NS:Combat is easy because at the heart, it is a point-and-shoot game. What makes it fun is the RPG aspect. You get experience for kills (and for kills scored by nearby teammates!) and can spend those to level up through your own personal tech tree. The decisions you make there are important: will you go for heavy armor to be invulnerable to Lerk Spores, or buy a Jet Pack and take to the skies? Do you want to play defensively with trip Mines and Grenades, or get a Shotgun and charge? Or maybe you should hold back and get a Welder to repair your command chair.


The Best Game Out There (3, Interesting)

magic (19621) | more than 10 years ago | (#8092393)

Even in Beta, I think NS 3.0 is the best PC game out right now. It looks and plays better than the rest (yes, even though it is on the Half-Life engine) and NS:Combat is incredibly fun even if you don't feel like a full-fledged NS game.

The players agree-- within hours of release it rocketed above all but Counter Strike and Day of Defeat in the number of players.

And you can't beat the price-- free for anyone who has Half-Life (which is only $14 itself!).


Ensuring Good Gameplay (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8100569)

Play on regular servers if you want to play with ppl who do teamwork. myself, i play on Lunixmonster and the 3 Old Fogey servers [OldF] My handle is Niteowl. would be nice to see some slashdotters playing along side me :)

Personally, i'm really happy that NS has combat is in. since there are quite a few NS servers out there that run COMBAT ONLY, you can basically use those as n00b magnets. Ppl who want furious gameplay/want to learn the game/can't guard an RT to save their life will go play combat. Those who want to play the RTS part of the FPS/RTS can play classic NS ;)

A side note, this is still beta testing, so there is still some balancing to be done. IMHO, JPers need a more solid counter (now that lerks don't have spikes), and onii and fades with their new hitboxes, need something to buff them (they get shredded right quick).
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