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First Virtual War

CmdrTaco posted more than 15 years ago | from the it-had-to-happen-someday dept.

News 83

EnglishTim writes "According to this BBC report, the Indonesian government orchestrated a massive 'virtual attack' on the East Timorese server, which is based in Ireland due to the Indonesian refusal to recognise East Timor's sovereignty. "

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Ashamed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031359)

As an Australian, I'd just like to say that I'm utterly ashamed by our government's recognition of the Indonesian occupation of East Timor. And all for a few measly oil treaties....

(Irony: I read today that Jose Ramos Horta, Nobel Peace Prize co-winner, was thinking of becoming an Australian citizen.... maybe he can fight them from the inside :)


Ashamed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031360)

Also Australian, also ashamed.

Also ashamed to be part of a global race that turns a blind eye to this sort of thing (or in some cases helping) for the sake of diplomatic relations ... a race that does this and somehow considers it less sickening than knifing old ladies for their pocket change.


Ashamed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031361)

You fucking aussies should be ashamed, you racist mother fuckers, like you are saints, you kill abroginies(sic) regularly in your own country, mother fuckers now acting like you are sent down by god to protect the weak and the feeble, man get the fuck outta here...

Not the Indonesian Government. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031362)

Sounds too organised, more like the Indonesians
hired themselves some american geeks....

East Timor + Indonesian occupation = genocide (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031363)

> It was appalling to see how the British, > American and Australian governments ignored the > genocide in East Timor to ensure lucrative trade
> contracts. I was even more appalled by

A blind eye appalling?

...hardly... and do wake up to the ways of the world one of these days, please...

You're (they) where luck the Assuies and Yanks weren't activly participating.

...and please note that I am neither confirming or denying the fact that they MAY have been participating.

Pardon my ignornance, but . . .? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031364)

What is the deal with East Timor? I've never heard of it.

Ashamed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031365)

I'm a Portuguese and I'm also ashamed, because my
country doesn't have enough military strenght to
attack Indenesia and give freedom to East Timor.

East Timor used to be a Portuguese colony until
1974. By 1974, there was a pro-democracy revolution in Portugal (25 April) and all the
Portuguese colonys were given independency.

This way, East Timor started to be an Independent
Country in 1974.

After the independency, several political
movements (some existed before the independency) started a civil war in order to get the power.

We, the Portuguese, we think that the Portuguese government of the time had a small part of guilt in this, because we didn't stopped this civil war. (at the time we were also facing a lot of internal problems.)

The Indonesians got the excuse of this civil war
and used it ti attacked East Timor with obvious help from the USA.
(at the time, they used the excuse that they were attacking communist guerrila groups).

In this atach, more than 100000 civilians were
killed in the first days, by the Indonsian army. There are plenty of horrible reports about this atack. Young girls were massively raped, prightn wooman were killed, etc, etc.

In the next years (until today), the indonesians
have killed hundreds of thousands of persons
(a total of more than 500000 people have died
or disapeared).
Even today, Cristians are persecuted, etc.

By international law, East Timor is still
administrated by Portugal, and this is the
reason why we have the responsability to free
East Timor. We think that East Timor could/should be an independent country.

East Timor people, never accpeted Indonesian

Since 1974, the Portuguese press has allways
reported this situation. I was allways informed about this.
The Portuguese government has allways
done all the things that they can to give press coverage to this problem.

However, the international press (USA, UK, etc) allways have ignored it.

I remember, that 10 years ago, some Portuguese
people posted information about East Timor into
some internet newsgroups. The general response
from the American readers was like this:
This article is false. If some of this reposts we
should be hearing informormation about this
in the media. If this is true why doens't CNN
talk about it ? This is a lye...

However, 10 years have passed and only now, after
the political situation has changed, you are
starting to get information about this...
Do you thnik that you have free press in the USA ?

Sorry about my spelling/grammar errors.


Anyone notice something? NEED.TP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031366)

Just a thought folks...

The source of the attack, according to the BBC article has *NOT* been confirmed. All that's mentioned is Indonesia's distaste for East Timor. Nothing else that says "Indonesia did it".

Now look at the domain the crackers who attacked created. ""

who here is NOT a beavis and butthead veteran, eH? clue in guys, it's just a group setting up a domain to play with. was probably the planned final product. maybe and too.

Before we start saying "bad indonesia" or "oh I'm so sorry I'm an austrailian" how about we say "who *REALLY* did this".

East Timor? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031367)

If East Timor doesn't exist in any form other than a domain then it is in no way an autonomous country. Is it located in Indonesia? If so it is part of Indonesia! If you have land, an autonomous government, and the UN recognizes you then you are a country.

Mark Thomas Comedy Product websites (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031368)

I assume you didn't see the Mark Thomas Comedy Product the other night?

I did, comedy with attitude. Anyway Channel 4 [] seem to think that this [] is the official MTCP site. (more info, 'orrible presentation), one for the bookmarks i'd say.


Ashamed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031369)

I am portuguese as well, I agree with both of you,
world press did'nt give a damm about East Timor,
essentially because it is such a small region.
It has considerable oil resources, though, in
the so-called Timor Sea, as the Australian
government knows... good to share the profit
with the Indonesian authorities... hundreds
of thousands of people killed in the process
in East Timor by Indonesian troops supported
by Australia? Well, if it makes cars running
cheaper in Sidney...

Slashdot Poll: where is East Timor?

1) 50 Km from Belfast
2) NW of Australia
3) Somewhere in Texas
4) Sea of Tranquility
5) Huh?

Eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031370)

And you're from which 'pure as the driven snow' country exactly?

Average American (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031371)

The "average american" can't even locate their
own country on a map! Why the hell do you expect them to know where any other country is?

I'm from Canada, and a CBC 'news' (comedy about current events) show called 22 Minutes has a regular segment called Talking to Americans, in which one of the correspondents goes to various American cities, and talks to people about Canada. It's amazing that the 'average' (and not-so average) americans really know _nothing_ about international affairs. Even the governor of Arkansas (a college graduate) doesn't know anything about his country's largest trading partner (he apparently believes we all live in igloos.)

Your distinction seems arbitrary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031372)

Earth First, Exxon, Republicans and Democrats *all* believe that their intentions are "noble". I don't see how you can claim that it is "ethical" to screw around with someone else's property except in really extreme cases. I doubt that many environmentalists would consider it "ethical" for Exxon to disrupt "Green" web sites, even if no data is destroyed.

Ashamed -- You should be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031373)

First of all you should be ashamed of being Portugese, you guys are a pathetic bunch.

What gave the portugese the right to create colonies, you had colonies in India until the sixties, your weak puny asses were out run by the Indians, of all the people.

The original people of east t were not christians, they were forcefully converted by the portugs when they were colonized, when the refused to convert they were killed, wanna give some numbers here huh you weak fucking bastard, huh?

Who started the killings and who is finishing the jobs here, muther fucker, your asses left all the colonies raped and plundered of its wealth and now you are crying like a bitch when its your time to go, you got some balls why don't you go to east t and fight for freedom.

Know all your facts and then speak or shut the fuck up...

"Political Statement" != "Free Speech" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031374)

Sure, placing your views on someone else's site without permission may be a type of political statement, but that doesn't mean it is entitled to protection as "Free Speech".

After all, aren't bombings and hijackings "political statements"?

Oil vs. human rights (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031375)

I don't think the intention of the U.S., Australian and British governments was to exploit the "Indonesian government's thirst for bloodshed" in any way. It was more of an economic/business interest in the oil found in East Timor. If you are looking for someone to blame for *that*, you should look more closely at how you consume oil and other natural resources. We are rapidly running out of this stuff and, as leaders of the post-industrial West, we use the most of it and governments are aware of this fact.

I am not saying that the U.S. government's attitude toward East Timor (or even much of SE Asia) is right, just pointing out its considerations.

Apec protestors? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031376)

I would hardly call people who were breaking down chain link fences and charging police lines protesters.

They were punks. They should learn to protest peacefully.

I don't think the Gov. of Indonesia did it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031377)

Regarding to .TP (East Timor) hack. I don't think the Gov. of Indonesia did it. I haven't heard anybody claiming the responsibility from the Indonesian community.
I hope there's no retaliation / revenge.


ps: sorry for the anonymous post. I still couldn't login into Slashdot/Freshmeat.

-- budi, ID-CERT

Average American (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031378)

Maybe its because Canada sucks.. I mean who cares about those Canuks, anyway? I watch Hockey, isn't that enough?

Average American (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031379)

Slightly off topic but we can locate our own country on a map (even Saturday morning cartoons give us that). Just don't ask which ocean is on the West or East Coasts. Or to name any of the capitals of the states.

Ashamed -- You should be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031380)

First off, he didn't insult anyone personally. Aparently you don't have much of an education. Second, if you're an USA citizen, are you a native american ? If not, you should leave. Thats if what you said in your post are your true beliefs. If their not, then you are just a fraud. Better put, you're a fraud anyway because first you say we had no right to colonies and then you say we should've kept our colonies in India.

You say we left our colonies without any wealth ? My mother was in Angola and they had stuff there that didn't exist in Portugal. You know the city of Huambo ? It used to be called Nova Lisboa (New Lisbon). We we're planning to transfer our capital to Angola. We left equipment & wealth there. Many people came back to Portugal with only their clothes. We left a damm in Mozambique that can power the entire country (its still working because our power company spends millions keeping it working). Unita and the Goverment are still fighting for the diamonds & petrol in Angola.

As to being weak. India didn't have an interest. We only had some cities there. The real war was in Africa and we were winning that one (said almost all the now leaders of those countries). If it weren't for the revolution, we would've won.

I admit there are parts of the Portuguese history that i'm not proud of, but it is MY past and is what im made of. We have the ability to learn from our mistakes, you, apparently, do not.

We had an "Empire" for more centuries than you are an country. From the 15th century to almost the end of the 20th. We were the first country in the world to abolish slavery.

You should go read a History book instead of whatching hollywood movies.

I'm Portuguese and i'm proud of it.

Ricardo Ferreira,

Ethical hacking [sic] does not exist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031381)

I don't know about other countries but in the US, to me, the biggest insult that anyone can try to do is to deny free speech. Obviously you think that others rights to express themselves is just another place where you can put your opinions at their expense. Ethical hacking is absolute bullshit! There is no such thing as a nice crack. Its like shooting someone in the arm with a bb-gun and then saying 'it really didn't hurt, it'll heal, and you should have been wearing body armor anyways'. In the US, we've died and still continue to die over mere 'words'. Obviously you do not understand their power. Even a man who is being executed has a right to say as much as he wants as a perfectly innocent (relative term) person (or post a controversial website insulting his victims). Quoting A. Einstein: "So long as they don't get violent, I want to let everyone say what they wish, for I myself have always said exactly what pleased me."

yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031382)

lye...i love it. anyway good comments; american press is pretty censored. my theory is since we have more freedom in theory, the us press has to be guardian against the peasants getting rowdye (sorry couldn't resiste..hehe). plus we have a high degree of media consolidation...i work for an ecommerce company, and the blurriness between content/ads/commerce is only getting more prounounced.

and conan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031383)

and .. um, chevy chase (do i see a trend here???)

Ashamed -- I should be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031384)

...I am in Pakistan, you fucking loser...

Shit, I was wondering where this guy was coming
from. It sounded so familiar. I used to drink
and play foosball with a bunch of bastards like
this Paki. "Fucking Loser" was the refrain with
all the good racial slurs and religious putdowns.
(We had hindus and sikhs running around, too)
Ahh, the good old days, thanks for the memories
you fucking asshole!

Flame on!

THis is great way to fight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031385)

there is no loss of life and it really hurts someone now a days to have computers down think of the possibilitys we attack Iraq or China delete all there recources like how we have SS cards and they are messed up this is great we attack there computers that make the weopons for them they can't attack us disable the nukes and planes no communication I love it!!!!!!!!!

BoRZaK []

Eh 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031386)

I see, so the best way to make up for the bad deeds of the past is to keep quiet and not speak out about the bad deeds of the present.


Ashamed -- You should be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031387)

First of all, it is true that the Portuguese
actually forced the native people on these
regions to convert to Christianity.
But this happened in the 15th Century (in the end of the middle age)...

The killings were caused by a dark page in the Western European History: the Inquisition.

However, the Inquisition wasn't killing only
native people because they failed to convert
to Chistianity. The Inquisition was also killing
a lot of Portuguese and other Europeans because
of relegious problems.

Regarding our practices in the colonies: your statements are absolutely false: we never considered the colonies as being colonies: we
were considering it as part of our own country:

We were developping the colonies exactely in
the same way as we were developping Portugal (former called metropolis).
Portuguese people were moving to places like
Angola and Mocambique and they were builging
cities and power plants and industry and lots
and lots of other tinngs.

Portuguese people were mixing with the locals
and that's why we have today a lot of people
with origin in different races (ex. white fathers and black mothers, etc).

As a mather of fact, The older Portuguese governmet was thinking in moving the capital of the Portuguese empire from Lisbon to Angola.

After the 25th April revolution in Lisboa (Portugal), the Portuguese army gave up fighting in the colonies, because they considred it as an unfair war.

Ater this, most of the white Portuguese People living in the colonies and also a lot of native
people returned to Europe.

Most of the persons that choosed to return, returned with absolutely anything: just the cloths that they were dressing at the time.

In the next years, we had a very difficult time
in Portugal because we had to receive a lot of
people returning from the former colonies.

However, many Portuguese people decided to stay
in the colonies after the independency and they
continued to be well accepted by the native

In fact, the reason why many people returned
isn't related with the independency, but with the civil wars that started after the independency.
In some cases (like Angola) the civil war still continues today.

Regarding Asea, we never really had colonies in
that area: we just had some cities (Goa, Damao, Diu) that were used as a comercial exchange place. The Portuguese were buying silk and spice from India and selling it into Europe. As a mather of
fact, we still have one ot that cities in China
(Macau, near to Hong-Kong).

As all of you noticed, I'm also Portuguese.

Regarding East Timor, the Portuguese never
practiced any ot the genocid prectices like the
Indonesians are now doing...

Example: in the second world war, East Timor was
ocupied by the Japaneese troops. After the end of the war, the East Timor people were called to
choose what they would like to do in the future: they choosed to continue belonging to the Portuguese empire.

In the 50/60 decade, a lot of pro-independency movements started in all of the colonies, from
England, France, Belgium and later that movements
propagated to the Portuguese colonies.

Apec protestors? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031388)

I live in Vancouver, and the organizers of the protest are acquaintances of mine. One of them was tackled from behind by a plainclothes detective and put in an unmarked car while attending school BEFORE apec. to avoid trouble.

not all, but many of the protesters were in the act of symbolically giving themselves peacefully up for arrest when pepper sprayed. many of these same people were handcuffed and left lying on the ground with the spray on their faces and eyes for up to half an hour.

a camera crew was on site, but what is going on is not always visible because when the spraying started, an officer (as seen before the camerea went blank) pointedly took aim at the lens of the camera and covered it to prevent footage.

apparently, several women (and no men) were then stripsearched in a room with the door open, in full view of male officers on coffee breaks. this was stated on national television by one of the organizers of the protest on a talk show she was a guest on. (on the edge with mason lee). this happened to her (she was also with the group that was in the act of giving themselves up peacefully.)

The federal government has provided funding for *8* lawyers for the RCMP, and has denied any legal funding for the protesters in an ongoing hearing, despite repeated requests, not only from the protesters, but from the commission who is heading the hearing.

Two of the organizers, Jonathan Oppenheimer and Victoria (dont remember her last name) have been recently arrested and charged with "destruction of federal property" for publicly ripping ballots in public. This charge, which carries a maximum 5 year prison sentance, was designed to punish people who tamper with ballots in attempt to rig the election.
As far as been reported, no one (in Canada at least) has ever been charged before for destroying ballots in protest. The RCMP denies any link between apec and the motivation for the charges.

In a subsequent protest a month or two ago, police showed up in full riot gear, with tear gas guns. however, i did not see a single megaphone all night. clearly, a peaceful settlement was not a high priority.

I know this is a bit of a rant, but I thought y'all should know more than the 5 seconds they keep putting on the news.

Hacking as a Political Statement = Free Speech? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031389)

HAcking can sure be ethical hacking, cause, I already attacked Indonesian servers, on the East Timor campaign (Urban Ka0s Org.) and the only purpose was to alert the international authorities of the crimes and recrimination in East Timor by the Indonesian Army.
Urban Ka0s

Ashamed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031390)

You fucking aussies should be ashamed, you racist mother fuckers, like you are saints, you kill abroginies(sic) regularly in your own

You dope, you can't do a "(sic)" on yourself!

Anyone notice something? NEED.TP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031391)

This alledged attack on 'connect ireland is a complete work of fiction designed to disguise the true nature of the crash.
What happened was their(connect ireland) entire 'network' is so flakey that it regulary crashes. I'ts so unstable that the email server has to be hosted in GB and even their POP dialup connection is funneled through an English Telecom company.

Yeah man, "war" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031392)

Guy had to turn his computers off, even.

Hacking as a Political Statement = Free Speech? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031393)

If you take out a site or a server and replace it with your own for the purposes of "propaganda" It becomes a political expression of sorts does it not? What if Earth First hacked the exxon site, or The democrats hacked the republicans. What about retaliation to such an attack? Is it different if the source is a government, some other organization, or an individual. These are some big questions, but I guess it boils down to "Is there a legitimate role for hacking?"

Probably seen worse from IRC... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#2031394)

Really, was this attack any worse than what you could provoke from IRC by insulting a prepubescent dweebie with a copy of smurf fresh off of rootshell?

Take down a national power grid, then I'd be willing to call it a "war."

Apec protestors? (1)

Luis Casillas (276) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031395)

You seem to be naive to how an organized repressive force can manipulate a peaceful but unexperienced crowd of protesters and turn it into a violent manifestation.

Tactics: infiltrate a few paid agents to agrede the authorities, and have the cops "defend" themselves: this is, bring in riot division gorillas to beat up the whole crow. You can bring helicopters with sharpshooters and aim at the protesters while you're at it. Drives them nuts. Film the thing and edit it to your convenience.

I don't know about the Canadian protests that are being talked about here, but claiming a group of protesters to be "violent punks" requires documentation.

(P.S.: the above description comes from real life events personal friends of mine have witnessed.)


Sigh (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031396)

Posted by Mephie:

Sigh (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031397)

Posted by Mephie:

It wasn't Indonesia, it was Beavis...
"I am Cornholio!! I for my bungholio!"


No way it was indo (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031398)

Posted by cepolloc:

After living in Indonesia for 5 years, i could tell you that there is no way the indonesians were smart enough to pull off any real hacking. besides, half the internet servers have already gone under there. ngentotloh!

Not the Indonesian Government. (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031399)

Posted by thex:

The assertion that it *couldn't* be the Indonesians because it seems more like American kids confuses me. Plausible deniability and MTV did, after all, enter the lexicon about the same time.

I am MOST surprised, however, that people seem to want to believe that it couldn't have been a nation-state sponsored affair. A 6 month campaign of gathering information, a coordinated attack from sites around the world, all for a 'joke'? Sounds like some VERY motivated pranksters, with lots of time and money on their hands...

And if it *didn't* take the resources of a state to support this, should we feel SAFER?

Hackers Crackers (1)

RealUlli (1365) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031400)

This BBC writer appears to have got the meaning of hackers and crackers correct this time. Neat. :-)

(I don't think he made the headline graphic, where it's wrong...) still down. (0)

Squeeze Truck (2971) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031401)

Wanna "orchestrate" a DoS attack against Indonesia?

Oh, that's just fine. (1)

Squeeze Truck (2971) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031402)

E. Timor is getting press *now*? 25 years after it happened?

Get this. (1)

Squeeze Truck (2971) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031403)

I just heard on NPR that Indonesia wants to "give up" E. Timor, and quickly.

Pardon my ignornance, but . . .? (1)

Squeeze Truck (2971) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031404)

In a nutshell, East Timor used to be a country on the absolute East end of Indonesia. In 1974, Indonesia attacked them without provocation and starved out about 1.5 million people. All with the blessing and support of the Western powers.

IIRC, a few Australian journalists trying to cover the atrocities were massacred by the Indonesian forces along with the rest.

The most significant thing about the incident is that it went nearly completely unreported in the Western press.

Go rent the documentary "Manufacturing Consent", it'll give you a complete rundown.

Funny... (1)

Squeeze Truck (2971) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031405)

I thought one of the big problems with Timorese independence (in the eyes of the government) was that it set a bad example for the hundreds of *other* non-Bhasa-Indonesia speaking ethnic groups in the area that the Indonesian government doesn't want getting any ideas.

I wouldn't think they'd want E. Timor to go free unless they were *really* desperate.

Moron. (1)

Squeeze Truck (2971) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031406)

Know all your facts and then speak or shut the fuck up...

Our entire country is a colony. Just because tyhe original inhabitants are dead and can't complain doesn't excuse it.

And we got our puny asses run out by the Vietnamese, of all people (and Chinese, in the Korean war)

Shouldn't you be in school?

Hmmm (1)

Trashman (3003) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031407)

I wonder how they did it.

A couple of weeks ago I was reading a thread on /. and somone put the picture in my head of legions of Quake players running around their servers blowing stuff up.

I think if countries went to war like this then the world could be a better place....

Hmmm... Reminds me of an old StarTrek episode (1)

Trashman (3003) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031408)

>>Your vision of a better place reminds me of one of the original series episodes where Kirk comes across two planets
>>having a "war" through computers. Random casualties from virtual bombings would then report to their own
>>government to die neatly.

Okay, it would be better except for that part where people report to really die....

Hmmm (1)

alfonso_117 (3204) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031409)

There's also that crappy movie "Robot Jox", where any border disputes or whatever were resolved by having two guys in giant robots beat the hell out of each other.

East Timor + Indonesian occupation = genocide (1)

LizardKing (5245) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031410)

Saw the updated Channel Four documentary on the Indonesian occuaption of East Timor last night.

It was appalling to see how the British, American and Australian governments ignored the genocide in East Timor to ensure lucrative trade contracts. I was even more appalled by Kissinger's manipulation of the UN - the US actively blocked UN condemnation of Indonesia so that Kissinger could save face.

Worst of all was the reugnant Indonesian ambassador just sitting there like an oily c*nt, denying the indisputable evidence of Indonesian atrocities.

Hopefully the Indonesian economy will go completely belly up, but it will probably only hurt the ordinary Indonesians - not the b*stards at the top.

Weapon supplies from US and Britain (1)

LizardKing (5245) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031411)

Britain supplied (amongst a vast arsenal of stuff) a number of Hawk 'trainers'. These jets are high performance, and against people with small arms (the East Timor rebels) or civilians, make great close support aircraft. They are even sold on the understanding that they can rapidly be converted into fighter bombers.

This prompted a big scandal in the UK. When asked recently whether this use of British hardware worried him, former minister Alan Clark replied that it didn't. Asked if this was a little contradictory from an avowed vegetarian, he again replied in the negative.

More on arms to Indonesia (1)

LizardKing (5245) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031412)

Kissinger, during his face saving exercise, insisted that US arm supplies to Indonesia should be cut shortly after the East Timor occuaption.

When it became clear that UN condemnation of Indonesian aggression had been forestalled by US delegates, the arms supplies DOUBLED.

Recently released US government documents (including transcripts of Kissinger's briefings), corroborate this. In fact the US connived to the extent that they informed the Indonesians not to invade East Timor until *after* the US Presidential visit to Indonesia. It began shortly after the President's aircraft left Jakarta airport.

Where do people get these ideas? (1)

Jason Skomorowski (5554) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031413)

What are all these comments about sufficiently able *acker types being able to do things like shut down power grids, defensive systems, toasters, anything with a processor, etc?

If a device is not on a network (computer, phone, whatever), it cannot be damaged or compromised in any way unless you physically go there (or send a missile or whatever ..). (Satellites may be slightly more vulnerable, since by their nature control of them is remote.)

Since any important system is not on any network that can be accessed remotely, the worst that can come of 'cyberterrorism' or whatever is a few media stunts like this.

(Ack. I dislike the prefix 'cyber' ... is there a replacement? Doesn't it just exist because someone stole it from 'cybernetic' and didn't want to give it back its original meaning?)

a different kind of "war" (1)

Julian Morrison (5575) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031414)

They were not attacking the real-life East Timor; they already have that by the short hairs. They were attacking a "virtual country" domain which had been set up to treat East Timor as an independent country.

Well, after all... (1)

unitron (5733) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031415)

Well, after all, the Internet was born out of preparations for war as a sort of defensive weapon. No way someone wasn't going to see it as an offensive one sooner or later. Surprised it wasn't sooner.

What he said (1)

heretic (5829) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031416)

And if reading Chomsky's too much for you, go and rent "Manufacturing Consent".

Somehow... (1)

Psarchasm (6377) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031417)

I have my doubts that the Indonesian government watches Beavis and Butthead. Please.

The Baddies can do it too. (1)

Apuleius (6901) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031418)

Would be hacktivists might want to volunteer for sites like East Timor's to patch up their holes.

You're letting the press off pretty easily (1)

Driph (7107) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031419)

Sure, everyone knows where Kuwait's that little sticky-out part on the bottom of Iraq....don't you watch the CNN graphics? :]
Now, ask people where IRAQ is, and we'll see...


Indonesia may release E. Timor//+comment on "War" (2)

D-Fly (7665) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031420)

Ironically, given this so-called Cyber War (read:load of hysterical media crap)launched yesterday, Indonesian government sources are today indicating that they may simply give up on East Timor, possibly giving it complete independence.

My analysis: With the society teetering on the verge of complete economic collapse, and the government's legitimacy called into question by student massacres and show trials, and fundamentalist/nationalist tendencies on the rise, a fractious colony like E. Timor might just be too much of a headache.

This so-called "Cyber War" was obviously the work of a bunch of kids, not Indonesian security services.

A real electronic war would involve, say, disconnecting a country's central bank from the financial network, or disabling the power grid, not crashing some stupid Web server in Ireland.

Australians aren't killing aborigines (1)

elflord (9269) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031421)

I have no idea where you got this from. It is true that there was a lot of violence against the aborigines until recently. However, this kind of thing has discontinued for some time.

You are rambling.


-- Elflord

Pardon my ignornance, but . . .? (1)

elflord (9269) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031422)

Also worth checking out "Death of a Nation". This is the movie that John Pilger made there when he risked his life by going in under cover (journalists aren't allowed to enter east Timor)


-- Elflord

Eh ? 3 (1)

elflord (9269) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031423)

I am not responsible for what happened in my country >50 years ago ...
-- Elflord

Not Sengan this time! (1)

RedOctober (10155) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031424)

If it had been Sengan posting this article, everybody would have been screaming blue murder about him skewing the politics of /.

I feel a double-standard is in place.

The Mark Thomas Comedy... (1)

Sakse (10168) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031425)

Man, I just read through the Programme 3 []

That looks like a real cool/interesting show. A pity we don't have it in Norway. (Or do we?)

Thanks for the link, I'll read the rest later..

Hrmm... Let's go to war (1)

morgan1 (10265) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031426)

I'm trying to figure out why those guys didn't attack some of their Defensive systems or something.. Then it would be a real WAR.

I'd like to see the log of it too.

Not the Indonesian Government. (1)

The Dodger (10689) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031427)

Based upon my experience of hacking, hackers and my knowledge of information warfare, I have to say that I doubt very much that this attack was carried out by the Indonesian Government.

From the information available on the BBC site, it seems a lot more likely that the "attack" was by a group (or possibly just one) juvenile hackers, probably American, who thought the idea of having a Beavis'n'Butthead-style domain ( would be cool.

Sounds to me like there's a bit of spin-doctoring going on.

The Dodger

Hacking as a Political Statement = Free Speech? (1)

The Dodger (10689) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031428)

As the inventor of ethical hacking, (a term which has since been hijacked by IBM and others) I believe that although ethical hacking is illegal, it is generally not immoral. Earth First hacking the Exxon site would be an ethical hack assuming that they only altered the main website (ethical hacking doesn't involve destroying data - that would be monkeywrenching).

Republican vs. Democrat isn't, because the aim of the hack is selfish, as opposed to unselfish. In other words, the intention isn't 'noble', to use a slightly anachronistic term.

The Dodger

Not the Indonesian Government. (1)

The Dodger (10689) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031429)

Okay, let's posit for one moment that the Indonesian Government were behind this. The first thing to ask is "What were they trying to do?"
There are two possibilities:

1. They were going to carry out some form of propaganda compaign involving misuse of the website.

2. They intended to take down the site.

If the first was true, then their first action would have been to alter the webpage. If the second was true, their first action would have been to rm the server.

From the (admittedly limited) information I have, it would appear that the intruders did neither of these things. Instead, they went about establishing the domain. In fact, the only reason that the website is down is because Connect Ireland pulled the plug when they realised that the system's security had been breached.

As for saying that this was the culmination of a "six month" campaign - what proof, if any, is there that all those attacks were carried about by the same individual or group? Did all these attacks come from the same IP address? If so, why didn't Connect Ireland take some form of action?

I know hackers who use automated scripts to scan thousands of hosts for vulnerabilities. Now, I know what people are going to say - why should someone scan the .tp domain? Well, are you trying to tell me that Connect Ireland had an entire server dedicated to a single website? Or even several websites under the .tp domain? I doubt it very much - I'm willing to bet, in fact, that there are quite a few websites hosted on that machine.

Now, admittedly, I could be wrong, and if facts are presented to me which contradict my assumptions, I will quite openly revise my analysis of this incident. But, from what I know, I continue to regard the assertion that the Indonesian Govt are behind this attack as unfounded and I think that Connect Ireland are being deliberately misleading.

The Dodger

Slashdot mentioned in the BBC news story. (1)

The Dodger (10689) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031430)

The BBC story has been updated with a bit about the Slashdot "News for Nerds" site. In response to the Beavis & Butthead theory, "Martin Maguire responded he could not see ordinary crackers expending their energy for nine months on testing defences and then mounting a worldwide co-ordinated campaign."

If Maguire's reading this, I'd like him to tell us WHY he thinks it was the same crackers testing his security over the last nine months and why doesn he think it unusual that hackers might use machines on several different continents? The first rule of hacking is to cover your tracks, a chara. It's not unusual for hackers to use machines on the opposite side of the glode from where they're actually sat.


Mak Thomas Comedy Product (1)

The Dodger (10689) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031431)

I was in fucking stitches watching that - the relaxation exercises and so on, and the fact that they got that contact....

Monsieur Thomas is fucking good. Reminded me of the Need To Know guys -


PS: Perhaps Chris can confirm that this "Indonesia carry out infowar on E.Timor" story was on brekafast television?

hacking != cracking (1)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031432)

What you are describing is CRACKING, not hacking. /. of all places should at least get the terminology right!

Linus Torvalds is a hacker.

Meatnick was a cracker.

Big difference.

That having been said, it IS an interesting philosophical question as to whether or not there is a legitimate role for CRACKING, and if so, what exactly that role would be.

Running out of oil??? Bah! (1)

xoddam (11546) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031433)

We have enough oil in presently-exploited oil
fields to last well over a century at present
rates of consumption. The main thing we're
running out of is clean air -- if we burn all
that, we'll return the atmosphere to the CO2
levels of the Jurassic period, nice & warm.

Check out Project Underground [] for more information.

You're letting the press off pretty easily (1)

BonzoDog (11608) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031434)

What if they never reported anything about Iraq invading Kuwait? Would that be OK? Does the average American know where Kuwait is?

The press deserves to be royally flamed for the non-reporting about the situation in Indonesia and East Timor. This stuff IS news-worthy. Read the Portuguese posters' report.

However, criticizing Indonesia is against the interests of the powerful, and therefore the press remains mum.

Tibet? (1)

BonzoDog (11608) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031435)

and Tibet doesn't exist, because it's "part of China"....

Ashamed. Not suprised. (1)

Ted Best (14516) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031436)

Did anyone hear the report on Canadian radio about Pak Suharto's behavior in B.C. during the APEC meeting last spring? He or his bodyguards asked the Royal Canadian Mounties if his bodyguards could shoot protesters there!!! It is a good thing he's out, I hope things change. There are at least two other areas in which sovereignty is contested: Irian Jaya (the US is at fault) and Aceh, in Sumatra. Much of the Moluccas initially wanted independence from Java when the Dutch left- this history underlies some of the X-tiam - Muslim violence in Ambon, as well. Anyway, I would love to hear the technical details, I hope someone will provide them. (Aku cinta Rupiah!)

Ashamed. (1)

Ted Best (14516) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031437)

I am sorry, but they used AK-47's and not U.S. weapons, at least in the initial assault, to avoid offending American sensibilities. That's all it takes to please a politician. The U.S. is more directly responsible for handing over Irian Jaya to the Javanese in order to cover up special operations supporting anti-Sukarno rebels in Sumatera. In order to win the release of a CIA radio operator captured by the Indonesian military, the U.S., acting as a U.N. sponsored election judge in determining the fate of the Irian people decided against the popular vote for independence or union with Papua New Guinea and supported the decision of a "Council of Elders" that Irian should belong to Indonesia.

Just a thought.... (1)

RocketScientist (15198) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031438)

Maybe some of those nice cracker boys who are bombarding the Iraqi X.25 network could spare a few moments to bust up Indonesia? A non-government-sponsered "Go fsck yourself" type of an attack? Hmmm.....

Just a thought.

Not the Indonesian Government. (1)

jmcc (15894) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031439)

One of the first rules of any covert operation is that it has to be deniable. The second rule is that it must be difficult to properly attribute.

I don't know about the level of your knowledge of information warfare but your doubting that the Indonesian government was responsible is a proof of rule one.

In real information warfare, this kind of operation would have been subcontracted. From the people I have spoken to about this, it seemed that it was a planned attack and was the culmination of some activity that had been going on for about six months or so.

Did it ever occur to you that the people who carried out the op may also have watched Beavis and Butthead. After all MTV is a global satellite network.


Indonesia may release E. Timor//+comment on "War" (1)

jmcc (15894) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031440)

Sounds like the Indonesian givernment sources are putting a very nice spin on the situation.

With respect to your analysis, I don't really think that you understand what happened. In a situation like East Timor, getting the message out is extremely important. The more the Indonesian govt. was shown to be in the wrong, the more untenable their position becomes. It is classic information warfare. The same situation occurred here in Ireland with the Northern Ireland conflict - the Republicans were so effective in getting the ir message out that they were even banned from TV and radio in the UK and Ireland. With the WWW, the printing costs are removed making it far more feasible to put the viewpoint forward. It would have been in the best interest of the Indonesian govt. to reduce any such avenue of expression.

Since East Timor does not have a financial network or any targettable infrastructure, hitting that server in Ireland, which also hosts the DNS for the entire .tp top level domain would effectively wipe the virtual country of East Timor off the internet.


Pardon my ignornance, but . . .? (1)

ien (15941) | more than 15 years ago | (#2031441)

i picked up noam chomsky's book on east timor, i think if you really want some more knowledge of the situation in east timor (though the manufacturing consent gives you the basic story)... its a small book that won't take you more than one sitting to read
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