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Google v. Microsoft

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the death-match dept.

The Internet 602

ph43thon writes "The New York Times business section has an article, The Coming Search Wars, about Google and Microsoft. It's fairly long and pretty interesting. Oddly, the writer or somebody out there, seems to think that Google v. Microsoft is analogous to Netscape v. Microsoft. I wasn't aware that you needed to download special software to run this Google search application. Somehow, I don't think Microsoft will find this fight to be as easy."

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602 comments

Lets hope that the result is progress (2, Insightful)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152850)

Could do with some competition, Internet getting very dull

Re:Lets hope that the result is progress (4, Funny)

Abit667 (745465) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152871)

The Internet is definatly getting dull since Goatse was shutdown.

Re:Lets hope that the result is progress (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152992)

http://www.petitiononline.com/Goatse/petition.html

Not that I am a fan of petitions or anything.

Re:Lets hope that the result is progress (5, Interesting)

Neurotoxic666 (679255) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152887)

Google staff themselves have already shown much progress with little or no serious competition. Their search engine has nothing to do with the old yahoo and altavista that were returning 50% advertisement and 49% uninteresting results.

And sincerely, I doubt Microsoft will come up with anything more efficient that Google.

Progress? That's Google's job. Competition? Microsoft is no competition in this area. Google wins by having a well-thought search system that beats anything else.

Yes, I am biased. Google is "da shit" =)

Re:Lets hope that the result is progress (5, Insightful)

Oliver Defacszio (550941) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153049)

So, without any evidence, you've proclaimed Google the winner for all eternity because you like them? I need some extra money -- which jersey of the SuperBowl teams do you prefer?

If you don't like Microsoft, fine, but to call them "no competition" is brutally ridiculous. Microsoft is competition in any area they wish to persue, because although their actual product is not always the best in its class, their ability to sell it is above anyone else out there. Plus, in the "real world" outside Slashdot, the name alone will garner a ton of interest as they delve into the search biz.

As much as everyone likes to abuse the term "monopoly" in regards to Microsoft, they never would have been in a position to abuse power if not for some pretty impressive corporate skills in several areas. If Google ignores that and thinks like you, it's at their own peril.

Re:Lets hope that the result is progress (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152904)

Re:Lets hope that the result is progress (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152919)

There's unlikely to be significant progress. Centralized information retrieval has run its course. We haven't seen anything really new in a while. Improvements will come from distributed/peer-to-peer/grid IR.

Re:Lets hope that the result is progress (4, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153024)

Google executives also say they believe that Microsoft is systematically pursuing Web sites downgraded by Google, which punishes companies for trying to manipulate their rankings. The company is striking partnerships with unhappy Google customers.

I just got to wonder what this will do for the quality of results I see in the Microsoft product. What will it get, nothing but spammers as a result?

I mean, think about...

;)

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152860)

First Post!!!!!!!

Try using Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152863)

To look for dupes [slashdot.org] .

Dumbofuck (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152864)

Move swiftly. The coarse hair around my asshole stiffens and my gun is unseating itself from the holster. It is not by my choice; I am being commanded by the forces within my manhood that I cannot control. Even as I feel the slow drip of liquid waste from my maned anus, I am enthralled by the site of this distended elephant, stretching in the sunlight.

His skin is a dull grey, and I can't wait until I can find myself licking his gargantuan shithole until my tongue is bruised and swollen.

I found myself tasting of his giant dong, manuevering my salivating tongue over the knobby grooves. It was an odd taste that echoed delight from my mouth, reminding me slightly of something I couldn't place.

As I pulled my mouth back from his rubberish rod (it was much like vulcanized rubber), pachyderm semen strands began to expand between the void. A festering jelly-like substance, my simple human mind could not comprehend the saltiness.

The real test of a search engine (5, Funny)

override11 (516715) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152865)

.... is how fast you can get to good porn. And so far Google has everything beat hands down. Cmon, http://images.google.com, turn off mature filter, search for 'teen boobs' or something like that and BAM, you are all set! Lets see MS beat that!

Re:The real test of a search engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152912)

Personally, I think altavista's video search has google beat on this front.

Heh (1)

Moth7 (699815) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152973)

This reminds me of a 2DTV episode:
*Bill finds his son reading a pr0n mag*
Bill: "Son, I'm so ashamed!"
Son: "I'm sorry Dad."
Bill: "You should have been using my new program, Microsoft Porn for Windows!"
*Opens up the application*
Bill: "Wow, nice hooters ^_^!"

Re:The real test of a search engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152932)

Bless you! You made my afternoon!

Re:The real test of a search engine (5, Funny)

JudgeFurious (455868) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152958)

Ok, just to be fair I tested this and Google returned exactly one bad picture of a pair of boobs and it didn't even come from a porn site (yeah, I turned off the mature filter).

To add insult to injury it didn't even show the whole thing AND they were Britney Spears boobs (possibly).

Google, get back to work and fix this ASAP. I'm sure Microsoft is already making a special effort to focus on the "teen boobs" market and planning on showing additional hits for users of Internet Explorer.

Re:The real test of a search engine (4, Funny)

JudgeFurious (455868) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153000)

Ah, I take that back. I forgot to save my preferences and so the removal of filters didn't take. The teen boob content was acceptable.

Apologies to Google and their great porn finding tools.

Re:The real test of a search engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8153042)

If you search from any of the localized sites you won't get any results.

Re:The real test of a search engine (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152964)

Google corrects you if you misspell "bukkake." I don't believe I've used another search engine since then.

Re:The real test of a search engine (2, Funny)

sewagemaster (466124) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152966)

And so far Google has everything beat hands down

everything except the thing you need to beat with your hands...

Re:The real test of a search engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152993)

Microsoft will win that through marketing. "Where do you want to come today?"

uh oh (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8153002)

Be warned that this feature also turns up the illegal/nasty kind of porn also - even with generic porn searches. The authorities consider viewing these illegal images the same as downloading them.

Re:The real test of a search engine (5, Informative)

kevcol (3467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153012)

Not only that, but search just plain ol' google with these terms:

"index of /" directory modified
..and whatever term you want to add to that mix.

You can find lotsa unprotected directories with lotsa FREE, umm.. stuff.

Its about defaults (5, Insightful)

jrumney (197329) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152867)

Sure, anyone can type google.com into their browser, but for the 90% of the population who don't understand how the web works, pressing the Search button on their browser is the only option. The fact that Microsoft's search is getting better doesn't change anything though, as search.msn.com is already the IE default, and those people will be using that.

Re:Its about defaults (5, Insightful)

the.jedi (212166) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152918)

The fact that Microsoft's search is getting better doesn't change anything though, as search.msn.com is already the IE default

I think it does matter. Right now people get fed up with the crappy results from msn and they're friends tell them "oh why don't you google it?" Tada! Another convert. If MSN can catch up with Google in terms of good search results then people will then quit looking for alternatives to the search button and Google will die. Once goole dies of course Microsoft has no reason to innovate and will let development die just as they've done with IE, outlook express and others. It's kinda sad really.

Re:Its about defaults (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152957)

People use MSN.com (the default) to find Google. This should say something.

Re:Its about defaults (2, Informative)

jrumney (197329) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153047)

You're right. But all that's changed is their search engine has got better to the point where some users might not consider finding google to be worth the hassle. The attempt to drive everyone there is nothing new.

Re:Its about defaults (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152950)

Exactly. I'm sure Microsoft will find a clever way of funneling people to their search site using IE, on any 404 error for example.

I think Google and Mozilla should team up before it's too late. Mozilla should have Google.com as the default homepage (I certainly do that anyway) and Google should put in a small link recomending that people use Mozilla.

- Henrik
TheOpenCD.org [theopencd.org]

Re:Its about defaults (1)

Davak (526912) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152965)

What is getting even worse is that Microsoft is using the web for many of its new "features."

For example, on tech-recipes I point out how Microsoft sends information to a web service to provide translation in Word 2003. [tech-recipes.com]

All users see is "translate" in the context menu when they right click. They don't know where it is going... nor do most of them care.

Microsoft will use this subtle integration to direct users where they want them to go.

Users like us may see the trouble with this practice; however, the normal mom and pop user doesn't notice nor care... they think that it is neat to be able to get translation now in Word 2003.

I have little doubt that google will win this battle. They have data... and microsoft just has software. However, Microsoft will use its reign of the desktop to fight the battle as hard as possible.

Davak

Re:Its about defaults (2, Interesting)

jeffkjo1 (663413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153010)

MSN search is set as the default, but most people come into occasional contact with a geek or watch the news.

Somehow my mother, who is rather tech inept, found google.

MSN search against google (5, Insightful)

j_sp_r (656354) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152868)

O'course MS can force users to use msn search this time just they did with IE. BTW, they already doing this. When you make a typo in a url (or the site is just slow to respond) you go to MSN search (with standard settings). Jou Beginner just thinks you search the internet only with MSN search and keeps using it. And if MS is really lame they block google in IE or render it incorrectly (only the goverment in the way for that)

But.... (4, Insightful)

TypoNAM (695420) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152869)

Google doesn't require me to run Windows and use IE to use their search engine. :)

Re:But.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152888)

TunnelBroker's router broke and currently it has yet to be fixed properly apparently since I've already had to reset up myself a tunnel link account and I was once again deactived due to their router not working so it believes my side has been dead too long. If this does not become resolved with in Hurricane Electric's IPv6 division soon then I will seek an alternative IPv6 tunnel provider. It's a good thing I never paid for it huh? :)

Re:But.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152930)

MSN doesn't either, so whats your point? ...dingleface

It's like Netscape v. Microsoft in that... (4, Interesting)

corebreech (469871) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152874)

Microsoft leveraged Windows to popularize IE. They'll try to do the same with MSN, leveraging it to promote their search engine. So there is that similiarity. And Netscape was free, and so is Google, and so that contest should go to whomever has the deepest pockets, but...

Google is different than Netscape in that it is very high quality, something Microsoft isn't likely to match (I am continually amazed at how badly the search engine at microsoft.com sucks) and also because Google actually has a business model, i.e., they have customers, e.g., people willing to pay them money to do stuff.

The way I see it, it's Google's to lose. They can still mess up in execution. They're expanding into other areas very quickly... perhaps too quickly. And they wield a tremendous amount of power in that search engine, so much so that I doubt that the feds haven't already requested "special access" to the query logs, and maybe one day, the power to alter result listings. (Yeah, you'd be laughing if I told you that the feds made Adobe put anti-counterfeiting code in Photoshop too I bet.)

Re:It's like Netscape v. Microsoft in that... (1)

jrumney (197329) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152949)

Microsoft leveraged Windows to popularize IE. They'll try to do the same with MSN, leveraging it to promote their search engine.

The difference being that people actually use Windows, but if you're talking about MSN the network provider (rather than the IM client) it doesn't have anywhere near a monopoly.

Re:It's like Netscape v. Microsoft in that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152996)

Are you saying that Netscape wasn't High Quality?

Re:It's like Netscape v. Microsoft in that... (5, Insightful)

Davak (526912) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153022)

Google has indexed the internet. That data is ultimately more powerful than having software installed on the majority of desktops.

Google has already flexed this muscle with their text ads. By being able to rapidly spider a page, google can provide very directed and specific ads. These ads are successful because they are so focused to their assoicated page.

Without radically changing the way we view the web... Microsoft can not touch that aspect of google... yet.

Davak

Whatever. (2, Insightful)

Chess_the_cat (653159) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152877)

I wasn't aware that you needed to download special software to run this Google search application. Somehow, I don't think Microsoft will find this fight to be as easy."

Since when do you have to d/l special software to use MSN search? The only challenge here is building the engine. Getting people to switch is not a problem for Microsoft's marketing department.

Re:Whatever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152979)

You're right, Google doesn't even have TV ads....but guess who does

Re:Whatever. (1)

joostje (126457) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153032)

Since when do you have to d/l special software to use MSN search?

I believe at some point, MSN barred users of other browsers than IE. So, in order to use MSN, I would have had to install IE and a whole different OS to run it.

But anyway, as far as I'm aware, Mozilla users aren't barred from MSN anymore, so I could switch now without installing anything.

No, it could be very easy. (5, Insightful)

thesolo (131008) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152878)

Somehow, I don't think Microsoft will find this fight to be as easy.

Well, if it's anything like Microsoft's previous attempts at dominating a market, it may prove atrociously easy for them. As another article on The Economist (linked here just a day or two ago) stated, Microsoft can easily leverage their Windows marketshare to take over the Search market.

As the article said, all they really have to do is offer a new service as a free add-on to Windows, then simply build that service into the next version of Windows, citing it's popularity and need to be a core part of the OS. They did it with IE, and they can certainly do it with searching as well. Tie their engine to their OS, and why would the masses go out to the web to search anymore? They could just do it from the desktop.

They already can (-1)

StarManta (692541) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152933)

They already can. [google.com]

Re:No, it could be very easy. (3, Interesting)

acheyer (139328) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152944)


The killer moment will be when they make the search experience for files on your desktop much better. I use Google today as my homepage, but the day when I get into the habit of searching for my files using Windows (today, it's not worth the trouble), it's trivial to extend that interface to search the web as well. Unfortunately, I think google does not have a strong, defensible position.

Re:No, it could be very easy. (4, Informative)

thesolo (131008) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152946)

Here is the article [economist.com] I mentioned in my parent post, along with the matching Slashdot article [slashdot.org] .

Re:No, it could be very easy. (3, Informative)

MrAngryForNoReason (711935) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153007)

all they really have to do is offer a new service as a free add-on to Windows, then simply build that service into the next version of Windows

They have effectively already done this. The search function in IE defaults to msn search, and if you mistype a url it sends you to their search engine as well. Because of this the popularity of msn search is massively overstated as a lot of the hits are due to typos.

Re:No, it could be very easy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8153034)

It does not have to stop there...

They could also have windows display bad results for google.

ie random substitution for any search request going to google.

Has Microsoft ever had a clue??? (0, Flamebait)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152883)

Microsoft always missed the clue-train, for multimedia, for the Internet, etc.

They are of the school of thought that throwing money at a problem is the best way to solve it.

Microsoft is UNABLE to understand open-source, interoperabilit, standards and all what makes Science go. All Microsoft is about money-grubbing, market domineering and the bottom-line.

Microsoft will never understand what Google is about.

Re:Has Microsoft ever had a clue??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152982)

"All Microsoft is about money-grubbing, market domineering and the bottom-line."
Microsoft is no different than any smart company in a capitalist economy, and I see no problem with that.

Re:Has Microsoft ever had a clue??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8153001)

google is also about making money. just because they use linux and don't screw their customers as much doesn't mean they would still be there if they weren't getting paid.

Re:Has Microsoft ever had a clue??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8153018)

the funny thing is...Microsoft is successful, how many people use Linux? Microsoft's strategy works, whatever it might be.

so shut up.

All Microsoft is about money-grubbing ... (1)

Tim Ward (514198) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153041)

Some of you slashweenies [slashdot.org] are so out of touch with the real world it's not true, and one wonders how you manage to drive the system well enough to eat.

In many jurisdictions it is the legal duty of a board of directors to maximise shareholder value - that's what a company is, that's what it does, and if it did anything different the shareholders would sue.

So, criticising a company for trying to make money is completely stupid.

it will be easy (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152884)

All MS has to do is hard code in the next IE fixpacks a simple check to see if the URL is Google and do all kinds of bad things to the request, claim it was a "bug" but then not get around to fixing it for a couple of years.

Similiaries to Netscape vs MS not unfounded (5, Insightful)

Larry David (738420) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152885)

Oddly, the writer or somebody out there, seems to think that Google v. Microsoft is analogous to Netscape v. Microsoft. I wasn't aware that you needed to download special software to run this Google search application.

This rather sarcastic remark somewhat misses the point. Not everyone is running Mozilla or a non-Microsoft OS. MS leapfrogged Netscape primarily because IE was 'good enough' (IE4 versus Netscape 4 was pretty even), it was quicker to load (thanks to MS integrating it into the OS), and because MS made it the default for everything.

Microsoft only has to make their new search 'good enough', and integrate it with Internet Explorer (or even as toolbars in other apps, like the Office suite), and Joe Public will use it just to make life simple.

Netscape vs Microsoft (0, Insightful)

RoadkillBunny (662203) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152890)

When it was Netscape vs Microsoft, M$ could create it's properiaty standards and make bugs in Windows that could crash it and make it look like Netscape's fault. This is using their popularity to the advantage. But with google, they can't use the popularity. All they can do that I can think of is to make IE not allow the user to go to google.com and show some kind of 404 Error. Help me out here, but wouldn't be this kind of illegal?

Trust (3, Insightful)

jole (4348) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152892)

What really matters in search engines are trust, relevance, speed and features. In other categories competition might be strong, but it is hard to see that Microsoft-branded search engine could easily be as trusted as google in near future.

My prediction is that Google will win hands down.

Barriers to entry (2, Interesting)

DOsinga (134115) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152894)

Google sits in an excellent spot, but there are not many barriers to entry in the search engine arena; who uses altavista, excite or lycos anymore? As long as people start surfing from windows, I would not bet against Microsoft. Maybe an aliance between Nokia and Google could make a dent into Bills armour.

Similarities (5, Interesting)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152897)

The main reason it's similar is that MS sees a potential serious competitor within a market it wants to own. MS wants to ringfence the desktop and datacentre market (well, it's got to gain the datacentre market first, but it was on the way to doing that before Linux became popular).

It's the argument that searching is about to become really important to them as a business sales technique - the new filesystem is a database, the integration of a web search engine makes your PC behave like a cache of the 'net. Etc. Owning the 'search' territory will help their marketing significantly, so they'll be serious about trying to get it.

I wouldn't write them off either - just because we all use google now doesn't mean we won't switch at the drop of a hat if something "better" (better can be 'easier to use' rather than 'more appropriate results') comes along. Altavista, anyone ?

Simon

matching toolbars (3, Interesting)

qBeaks (98833) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152898)

I use the google toolbar. Last week I got an email from msnbeta to try out the msn toolbar toolbar.msn.com. HEY MSN toolbar and google toolbar look and do the same thing!.

Sorry but I'll stick with google's toolbar.

I think the internet needs google to remain independent from Microsoft, yahoo, Sun, etc...

Google v. Microsoft.. (4, Funny)

Metallic Matty (579124) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152899)

In this corner, weighing in at 110lbs a small, geeky nerd who has cornered the entire computer industry with its crippling monopoly software.

And in the other, weighing in at a thousand terabytes, a small, simple, yet incredibly efficient search engine, who has become a household name for internet searches.

I know who I'd place my money on.

(PS: I am aware of the fact that my numbers are inaccurate.)

No Switching Cost (2, Interesting)

mrm677 (456727) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152900)

The fight is very easy for Microsoft. All they have to do is make a better search engine. There is no cost nor effort for me to switch search engines.

Power of defaults (1)

shiningsun (659627) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152903)

Microsoft can have the "search" button on their browser go to their own search engine by default. Or point you to their search engine when you mistype a URL. The average user may not care enough specifically go to Google even if they know it. Most people knew and used Netscape when IE came out, and with the help of being the default browser in Windows, IE started winning the browser war even before Netscape's software quality went down.

Search is moving.... (1)

telstar (236404) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152905)

It won't be relegated to just the browser .... it'll be integrated into the desktop and available from the taskbar. Google has released their deskband search tool, and Microsoft is sure to do the same. Early screens from Longhorn show the functionality.

Never overestimate the users (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152906)

I wasn't aware that you needed to download special software to run this Google search application

True. However, it is a fact (I think) that for a long time, Netscape was one of the busiest sites on the internet thanks to the number of users who had that as their homepage.

The reason they had that as their homepage was that they didn't even consider that they could change it, let alone look into how to do it.

MS will get a lot of inital acceptance simply by making IE default to their own search site.

what if...? (2, Interesting)

flaczki (748102) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152907)

what if microsoft will claim ovnership of IP of the search engine and will sue google for 3 B dollars?

Google's advantage (5, Insightful)

TWX (665546) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152910)

Microsoft will undoubtedly make their own search engine the default when the browser loads, or will integrate it with their msn.com portal page, but even if they do this, they still have typically created pages that are slow to load and so full of stuff as to make them difficult to use. Google has always had a clean interface and massively quick load times. This helps.

Google is a household word. It's also becoming accepted as a slang verb (to google for something), and has a reputation of delivering good results. Teachers like it, and their students are encouraged to use it. Professionals like it because it's quick. This also helps.

If Microsoft attempts to sabotage or hijack connections to google to redirect to MSN search via Internet Explorer, Google can cry foul to the courts (because Microsoft was ruled a monopoly) and get that removed, or possibly even get Microsoft barred from putting their own search engine in by default. This could prove interesting.

Re:Google's advantage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8152994)

Students encouraged to use it? At my highschool, google is blocked and labeled as "porn", while all other search engines are not!

Users are Lazy (1)

dduardo (592868) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152911)

"I wasn't aware that you needed to download special software to run this Google search application." Even if this is the case, when you open Internet Explorer for the first time, Microsoft asks you if you want use msn.com as your homepage. Most users will just click yes. This gives Microsoft an edge. If you want to use google, the user actually has to do work and type "www.google.com" in the address bar. This is just like Netscape versus IE. It all has to do with the convience of just being there. I know everyone in my family except me uses the msn for this reason. Even when I tell them that google is better, they just ignore me, because it is just easier to use msn.

Re:Users are Lazy (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153009)

well, still, shitloads of people prefer google.
of ordinary people, joe schmoes.

heck, they might be clueless as hell and they may run ie as the browser and their computer may be full of spyware but a lot of them still use google as their homepage and know how to set it as well(and go through the effort as well!), it's just that good.

Microsoft will try old technique, but will it work (1)

Ghoser777 (113623) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152921)

It's pretty easy to see what they can do - embed a microsoft search function into the toolbar sort of like how Safari does it with Google right now. Then, they can "accidentally" make Google's website not render correctly in future releases of IE. I think this time they're going to find that people are going to get really pissed off and instead of switching to Microsoft's service they're going to find a web browser that does work with Google correctly.

Here's hoping,
Matt Fahrenbacher

Google link to NYT article (2, Interesting)

EvilGrin666 (457869) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152924)

Ironically, heres a link using google news search to the article so you can avoid the NYT signup.

The Coming Search War [google.com]

Very similar to NS vs MS (2, Informative)

SilentJ_PDX (559136) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152927)

Microsoft gets to preload the OS with their preference (a browser that defaults to the MS search engine). There may not be a 20MB download that stands in the way of Joe User choosing a different search engine, but given the choice between a search box in the browser and having to type in "www.google.com", I think most users will choose the former.

I'm not saying the users can't make another choice, I'm just saying they won't bother.

Re:Very similar to NS vs MS (1)

EvilGrin666 (457869) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152981)

Most already have, ever since about IE4 the homepage defaults to MSN upon installation (unless IE has been branded). Even so, most users I come across use google for searching.

Search microsoft.com (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152934)

Microsoft.com has the worst search software I've seen it's fooking terrible. They should get their own $h!t together first.

No offence but slashdot is 2nd.

I beg your pardon? (1)

WernerStormcrow (675682) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152937)

Oddly, the writer or somebody out there, seems to think that Google v. Microsoft is analogous to Netscape v. Microsoft. I wasn't aware that you needed to download special software to run this Google search application.
Gee... and I thought I actually needed my OS and browser to use this Google search application. I wonder, though, where Michael crams his network cable in.

Anyone but microsoft... (1)

D-Cypell (446534) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152939)

As the next generation of search technologies hit the market it is very possible that google will find itself playing catch up (particually when the share holders are calling the shots).

I am not religious about my search technologies. I do primarily use google but this isnt because I have loyalty to google, it is because google seem to provide the most relevant responses to my queries at present.

I would have nothing against a Microsoft search tech if it was unbias and relevant but I have a sneaking suspicion that we would begin to see that priority in search results would be given to information that was supported directly by microsoft.

They will clearly use any headway in search technology to put their products above everyone elses.

Personally, I would tend to lean towards search engines that are backed by companies that dont have their fingers in as many pies as microsoft. Will the general internet populas agree?

MSN, Just a Poor Search Engine? (4, Interesting)

fire-eyes (522894) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152941)

I definately won't be using a biased search engine. I might go as far as to say censored:

Number of results for the search "linux"

at http://www.google.com/ : "about 12,500,000."

at http://search.msn.com/ : "about 429"

That's way more than a little difference. That's a ratio of about 431034:1.

I'm bored so let's try the same thing with "microsoft":

google: "about 9,470,000"

msn: "about 3856"

This time it's a ratio of about 24559:1 . Draw your own conclusions. At the very least I think msn is just a shitty search.

And yes I'm biased! I LOVE IT!

Re:MSN, Just a Poor Search Engine? (1)

gatkinso (15975) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152990)


My results:

Results 1-15 of about 14189782 containing "linux"

Results 1-15 of about 20457949 containing "Microsoft"

Re:MSN, Just a Poor Search Engine? (-1)

StarManta (692541) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153039)

MSN is a shitty search, and IE is a shitty browser. IE still has, what, 94% of the market? Sad but true.

What I think will be interesting is... (5, Interesting)

gordgekko (574109) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152943)

The reaction of people like those found on Slashdot if Microsoft actually crafts a search engine that is demonstrably better than Google. Will people ignore that in favor of simple Microsoft bashing, or will they use it and acknowledge its superiority?

Assuming, of course, that Microsoft builds a better search engine, of course.

Re:What I think will be interesting is... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8153016)

Slashdot editors won't run the story if that happens.

Typical liberals... always in denial.

Wow (2, Insightful)

andih8u (639841) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152948)

Aside from this all being hashed over yesterday, people will generally use whichever search engine is better. Yahoo once had market dominance until Google proved to be a far better search engine. Microsoft will achieve dominance if they provide beter search results than Google. There's not many ways to sneakily force people to use your search engine, aside from defaulting the search button to your own search engine, which MS does already anyway.

How long... (1)

Audiovore (572647) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152955)

will it take for a company to rear its head with a patent on searching?

Long shot for MS (1)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152959)

Microsoft has had years to take the search market. The pos MSN start page that IE defaults to is one of the first default settings in IE to get changed by new users. What really cracks me up is two of the internet's biggest success stories are also two of the ugliest websites: google and ebay! I hope MS's marketing department designs the page... it will continue to be too pretty to succeed.

Analogy (2, Interesting)

iantri (687643) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152974)

Others have suggested that Google will fall like Netscape (the browser) did.

I'm not so sure.

Yes, Microsoft did use their desktop OS monopoly to get IE onto everyone's computer, but they did it at just the right time -- Netscape had gone way downhill, and people wanted a browser that worked half decently.

Even if they integrate MSN Search, people will still use Google because it is lightyears better -- Google is even a verb now because of it.

Microsoft has already won. (2, Insightful)

Adolph_Hitler (713286) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152975)

In Longhorn, they will just include their search engine as part of the OS itself, no need to ever type in www.google.com. Its all over.

Re:Microsoft has already won. (1)

macmaniac (734596) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153026)

Blech.
Micro$uck's current search engine is comparable IMHO to ye old HotBot and the GO network...
Google has been well established and generates significantly more useful results in most cases in all genres (yes, including pr0n as indicated earlier) than anything Microshaft can ever come up with.
Microsoft != innovator.

MS is patient (4, Insightful)

Camel Pilot (78781) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152980)

Somehow, I don't think Microsoft will find this fight to be as easy.

Same remarks could have been said in the context of MS Word against Wordperfect or IE against Netscape, Excel against Lotus, etc. MS always by attrition and patient and they monoply position to wait it out. Also, MS is in a good position to dominate because the own the distribution channel.

this could become a huge failure for MS... (3, Troll)

xlurker (253257) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152987)

since competing with Google would mean
being able to administer thousands of machines
remotely.

No, not just simply administering thousands
remotely, but also being able to administer
them incredibly well and easy.

since I don't see that happening, I look forward
to seeing this MS-project crash and burn...
(this is great for future google stock)

Google should sue. (1, Interesting)

Lux (49200) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152995)


The problem with the antitrust cases against MS so far have been that they've taken place after the illegal activity. I feel pretty strongly that Google should sue for a preliminary injunction against MS promoting any new search engine via any media embedded in the client (desktop icons, homepage, et cetera.) Such a judgement might come along in time for it to be useful, and it would leave them on much more even footing.

It might be hard to get though because such a judgement would necessarily drive a wedge between MS's network services (MSN, messenger, passport, hotmail, et cetera) and their OS/application software. For example, it might mean that if MS wanted to embed their new search engine in MSN, they couldn't use it as IE's default homepage anymore. They'd have to pick between using MSN to promote the search engine and using IE to promote MSN.

I think that would be a Good Thing, but a judge could see it as a strong argument against such an injunction.

google news (3, Informative)

CoJoNEs (73698) | more than 10 years ago | (#8152999)

for those of you who don't want to subscribe to the times just click on Google News [google.com]

The .NET Angle (2, Interesting)

Mia'cova (691309) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153004)

If you think about how internet "applications" are becoming embedded into programs and other web services, there's a whole new area Microsoft could be fighting for ground on.

The free Google API isn't really as good as it could be. It works but I suspect if Microsoft incorporated their search engine into Visual Studio, or even just through the existing lists of available .net services, they'd have a solid start there. Microsoft does excel at documentation and ease of use for programmers. They know there if something isn't ready, their audience will know and avoid.

Google doesn't use windows servers. That would certainly limit their ability to compete in the .net arena. I'm not sure what the current status is of the open .net compilers but Windows has the head start.

It's not about just the internet (2, Insightful)

PickyH3D (680158) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153013)

It is in terms of things like the Google Toolbar.

It's just a matter of time before the MSN toolbar is included by default with IE.

That is how it similar to the Netscape wars. Search is going clientside and they want it specialized for YOUR needs. That's where the competition comes in.

Google Hasn't Won Anything Yet (3, Insightful)

tealover (187148) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153015)

Searching is still an evolving science. With all the google-bombing going on that manipulates search results, there remains a lot of work to be done. The key essence of searching is to either

a) retrieve the most relevant information

or

b) retrieve the most popular information

But the key is the user must never be confused as to which heuristic was used to return his/her results. This isn't happening right now.

Google is a star at the moment but so was Altavista and so were a couple other search engines. It is not inconceivable that Google can be displaced.

Competition is good (0, Redundant)

Head (41861) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153025)

Google is still a great search engine but a little competition can only be good for us, the users.

Money (1, Insightful)

kaden (535652) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153028)

What Microsoft has going for it is money. Google has lots of good ideas, but running that many searches is very expensive in bandwidth and hardware. Google might just have a hard time ever making a profit. Microsoft has a hard time not making a profit. Google can't just slap 'new version!' on a flagship product, and have people line up at the malls all over America to spend $400 on it.
So I'm thinking the superior product could lose out to the more profitable one. Wouldn't be the first time it happened.

A Search Application (2, Informative)

leoaugust (665240) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153035)

I wasn't aware that you needed to download special software to run this Google search application.

I think the application comes into picture via the Google Toolbar [slashdot.org] and also the need to somehow organize all the Google Services & Tools [google.com] . & Google has also gotten into one-click Blogging via Blogger.

In addition there are tools that visually organize the Google Search results, SearchDay - Visualizing the Web with Google - 8 January 2003 [searchenginewatch.com]

When you start having a book called Google Hacks [oreilly.com] , you know that there are a lot of HPI's (like API's but for H-Hacking), you know that there is a better way to offer access to these hacks via well organized tools. That is the form and function of the application.

Of course there are other applications like Copernic [copernic.com] ( a longer listing here Search Tools [google.com] ), but I think the current applications have miniscule following. What will come from Microsoft or Google will flood the market.

Not Again... (1)

Ryosen (234440) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153037)

>>Somehow, I don't think Microsoft will find this fight to be as easy."

Until the next emergency hotfix modifies your DNS to have google.com to resolve to search.msn.com. Sure, you can edit your hosts file, but how many users even know what a hosts file is?

Of course, this will all be done for your convenience and safety, mind you. All part of MS' new focus on protecting you from spam and malicious ne'er-do-wells. After all, you never really know who's on the other side of that web site you're surfing to. Better to leave the driving to us.

Yeah, yeah, I know. It would never happen. Then again, no one would ever make a web browser an "integral" part of an operating system, either.

No Special Software? (5, Insightful)

ravendeath (626771) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153038)

But the fact is, that people are downloading the special software: the google bar is one of googles most successful products, and this must be making Microsoft go crazy, considering their MSN sites have been unleashing pop-up ads on their unsuspecting users for years now. Netscape lost to Microsoft because they (arguably) had what turned out to be an inferior product. Microsoft will lose to google for the exact same reason.

Incremental Googling (4, Interesting)

kindofblue (308225) | more than 10 years ago | (#8153043)

I use google most of the time. But I find that the innovations are coming from elsewhere. Frankly, Google is innovating with baby steps. Spellcheck is a nice feature, but it's not revolutionary or unique. Google labs is bunch of undergraduate level bullshit stuff. It's not the stuff of supposed army-of-PhDs breakthroughs.

I like Google because it is fast, real fast and uncluttered, but the results are not better that Teoma or AllTheWeb. The link analysis that was unique to Google, 6 years ago, was the real quantum leap forward. But now everybody else has caught up. It appears to me that the differentiation is fast, bug-free quality of service and a clean UI.

Short of another breakthrough from Google, I think Microsoft could still clobber Google. Google has got no stickiness.

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