×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Jobs to India -- A Broad Look

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the is-free-software-outsourcing? dept.

The Almighty Buck 902

dumpster_dave writes "Wired has an excellent 7 page article on the current and future trend and nature of IT outsourcing from the United States. The conclusion: the smell of inevitability--the economy will survive, though your job, as it is currently, will likely not. Outsourcing is expected to expand from Service and code projects to the creative aspects as well, with obvious correlations experienced in the manufacturing industry during the 70s and 80s. An excellent read that provides good coverage of the perspectives of players on all sides."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

902 comments

Don't forget... (-1)

SCO$699FeeTroll (695565) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183908)

...to pay your $699 licensing fee you cock-smoking teabaggers.

Hmmmm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183990)

Maybe I should outsource my first posting. How does "Be not to forgetting to pay your $699 fee of licensing Mr. Teabagger. Thank you, come again!" sound?

Re:Hmmmm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184006)

Shouldn't have gone up to $1499 by now? Damn slipshod Americans.

There is hope here! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183915)

My friends, I know we all want Open Source [opensource.org] to succeed. However, it has come to my attention that the amount of attention being lavished on Linux [redhat.com] by the community at the expense of BSD [freebsd.org] ignores one key advantage that the vernerable OS from Berkeley has over everyone's favourite from Finland.

How can people say BSD [dragonflybsd.org] is dying when it has a mascot [freebsd.org] like this?! Linux [debian.org] needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks [hope-2000.org] and gorgeous babes [hope-2000.org] that BSD [openbsd.org] has to offer!

How can you take Linux [gentoo.org] seriously when its fronted by losers [nylug.org] like these?! Would you buy software from them? Would you even walk on the same side of the street as them?! I don't think so! You Linux [suse.com] groupies need to find some sexy girls like her [dis.org] ! I mean just look at this girl [dis.org] ! Doesn't she [dis.org] excite you? I know this little hottie [dis.org] puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox [spilth.org] . As you can see, no man can resist this sexy [spilth.org] little minx [dis.org] . I mean are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass [dis.org] ?!

With sexy chicks [minions.com] like the lovely Ceren [dis.org] you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD [netbsd.org] if she [dis.org] told you to? Come on, you must admit she [imagewhore.com] is better than an overweight penguin [tamu.edu] or a gay looking goat [gnu.org] ! Don't you wish you could get one of these [drexel.edu] ? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close [dis.org] to such a divine beauty [czarina.org] !

Join the campaign [slashdot.org] for more cute [pipboy2002.mine.nu] open source babes [pipboy2002.mine.nu] today!

Holy repost (-1, Offtopic)

Ryn (9728) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183916)

Been there done that

Re:Holy repost (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184003)

That's what happens when /. moderation is outsourced to India.

Re:Holy repost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184045)

/. need to create something that will search their post database and match links... this would allow you to see that before posting a message someone else has already posted the EXACT link!

Re:Holy repost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184172)

Sounds like a job for anti-slash [anti-slash.org] ! What better way to further the jihad than to point out the lazyness of the slashdot editurs?!!

Re:Holy repost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184180)

Repost ..Yes. but look at the comments. No comments reposted here. All brand new and fresh opinions. No comments copied from the previous article post. Reposting articles kinda gives us an opportunity to think over the previous posts. The moderators should be given kudos for this...not flamed.

Note to fat USians (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183920)

It's your own damn fault for being overpaid and underachiveing.

Re:Note to fat USians (5, Insightful)

Diaspar (319457) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184023)

interesting... when reading the article, i notice the cost of their daily lunch is around 50 cents. now, for comparing:

average college cost - $70,000
average apartment cost - $800
daily lunch - around $7

just a few items. hey, to be honest i'd be happy making $20,000 per year if my lunch would cost 50 cents daily, apartment $30 per month (or free, as it is in many countries) and the best college runs around $3,000 for all 4 years.

all the amounts people make are relative to what they have to spend. would you like to make $300,000 per year? if your rent becomes $20,000 per month (hypothetically, for the sake of comparison), all of a sudden that doesn't seem like that much money.

I just love how people assume that in america everybody is fat and have free money growing on trees. we work 50 hours per week and our bills are very expensive!!!

dup**** (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183923)

dup

Holy crap! (2, Insightful)

lake2112 (748837) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183945)

Jobs are being outsourced to India!!! That bastard headhunter acted like it was my fault. It sucks how some companies will pay for 9483 managers and can't pay for 2342 developers. So to keep the managers jobs they lay off the important people.

Re:Holy crap! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183997)

Um, so become a development manager.

Or whine and victimize yourself, really it's your call.

Re:Holy crap! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184021)

Hmmm, the obvious solution : let's all become managers...

Errr, Why are you all staring at me like that ?

You know it's a dupe when... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183950)

...the link to the article is already colored visited from when you read it last Friday.

Maybe I should karma-whore a little bit and repost some of the highly moderated comments from last time?

Uggggh.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183954)

Dupe....how many damn times are we gonna talk about outsourcing to India now....jeesh....making me sick and depressed already...

argovation! (-1, Flamebait)

djxploit (748198) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183955)

thought stories were scanned for dupes anyway when getting support for products over tehre it drives me insane! especially hp... no tech skills and they just read a manual and say have u tried this pause for about 2 mins have u tried this pause again

Grow up Deanie Babies and vote for Kerry (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183957)

The Party has annointed him so Vote.A vote for anyone else in your primary or caucus is a vote for Hitle...uh BUSH!

Re:Grow up Deanie Babies and vote for Kerry (-1, Offtopic)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184105)

The Party has annointed him so Vote.A vote for anyone else in your primary or caucus is a vote for Hitle...uh BUSH!

Didn't see this coming [slashdot.org] . Nope, not at all. Kerry supporters are so non-predictable.

Now, would someone like to tell me what Kerry's platform actually *is*? So far it seems to be, "I'm not Bush, therefore I should be elected." What's his stance on space travel, copyright laws, abortion, education, deficit spending, etc, etc, etc.?! Oh, that's right. "I'm not Bush."

Don't worry (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183958)

It won't be a problem once Pakistan nukes their asses very soon.

Duped article, so I'll dupe my comments (5, Informative)

GreenCrackBaby (203293) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183960)

Rather than rehash what I said about this already, i'll just link to my previous post regarding outsourcing [slashdot.org] .

Nobody ever talks about how this will affect our industry 10-20 years down the road!

Re:Duped article, so I'll dupe my comments (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184149)

Nobody ever talks about how this will affect our industry 10-20 years down the road!

By then people will have forgotten it's a dupe! Duh!

IT Fads (5, Interesting)

Goody (23843) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183962)

Outsourcing everything to India was in vogue around '97 or '98. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now. But everyone forgets the problems and history repeats itself.

If you don't like this fad, wait five minutes...

Re:IT Fads (2, Interesting)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184014)

"Outsourcing everything to India was in vogue around '97 or '98. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now. But everyone forgets the problems and history repeats itself."

The problem is that it did work then. It gave a short term boost in stock prices so the CEO could get a second house before quality dropped.

Re:IT Fads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184060)

Right on target.
What ever happened to the ex-Soviet programmers in Russia?
That was my favorite outsourcing fad.

Re:IT Fads (5, Insightful)

Wister285 (185087) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184100)

I'm sure it's a fad much like the moving of American steel, automobiles, textiles, and a variety of other industries were. Oh wait, apparently companies have no shame in erroding their own customer base.

Re:IT Fads (5, Insightful)

savagedome (742194) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184102)

Don't forget that it was 97 and 98. *Everything* here in US was working then. Every startup was touted to be the next biggest thing. The 'hope bloat' if you will.

Times are different now. The bubble has burst and the companies (in a true capitalist way) are looking to strengthen the bottomline. If you cannot make money, well then atleast cut the costs (and yeah, I am aware of the cultural,social et al differences that are not factored but add up) and effectively, you've *made* money.

I do not want to rob you of your 'fad' but I have a feeling that this one is for real.

Re:IT Fads (5, Funny)

SoSueMe (263478) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184121)

If you don't like this fad, wait five minutes...

...and it will be reposted on /.

Re:IT Fads (5, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184181)

Outsourcing everything to India was in vogue around '97 or '98. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now. But everyone forgets the problems and history repeats itself.

And probably one of the main reasons was they weren't ready for it. Now they are and as one indian service provider stated, they've worked to improve their product. Even getting the indian workers to adopt western names, 'Shawn', 'Jessica' etc. and working on pronounciation. While these may seem to be minor, consider the last time you had a grad student lecturing for the instructor of a college course and you couldn't understand a word he said (real teachers don't teach, they get grunts to do it and are actually working on grant projects or university fundraising, those who can't, do teach)

Power and communications were a problem, now these people who own and run the companies have their own generators and satellite communications systems.

Don't assume they didn't learn something and everything is as bad as it was. Dell's failure may well be attributed to only one service vendor who wasn't as polished as others.

10 things never die (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183963)

DUPE for pete sake ...
10 things never die

India long term solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8183964)

'wage arbritrage' as called by our CEO is only a short term trend and will only go so far.

First Impression (1)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183980)

Notice how the article starts with:

"here's the typical programmer: screaming, wide-eyed, posting stupid web sites, holding up signs"

"Now, here are the smiling faces of his replacements..."

Any questions on where this is going?

Please explain.... (5, Insightful)

Kenja (541830) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183984)

Please explain how the economy will survive when there is no longer a middle class because all the white-collar jobs have been moved over seas.

Re:Please explain.... (4, Insightful)

RickHunter (103108) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184025)

Good question, and one no-one seems to want to answer. Most will handwave and make vague comments about "expanding economy" or "dealing with people" or "management", but that's bull. This is the start of an offensive to eliminate the American middle class, and replace it with a permanent base of slave labour in "developing countries".

One word... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184054)

"wood you like frys with that?"

Here is your answer ! (2, Funny)

BlueTrin (683373) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184131)

Well, actually we are mainly expanding overseas to cut the costs of production, but once everybody (middle and lower classes) will move in countries where there are jobs (oversea), the companies won't even have to pay transport as most of the customers will be in the countries oversea: even lower costs!

Re:Please explain.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184063)

No not all the white collar jobs just one-trick-pony geek jobs and low level technicians at that.Smart and creative people will always have work just not you fucktards who went to DeVry!
Your "Job" was just another symptom of the tech bubble.

Re:Please explain.... (1)

pla (258480) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184070)

Please explain how the economy will survive when there is no longer a middle class because all the white-collar jobs have been moved over seas.

Simple, really...

"Would you like fries with that?".


Of course, we may have to say that in Hindi, or Mandarin, or Japanese, but the "economy" will survive, in some sense of the word.

Re:Please explain.... (1, Insightful)

monkeytalks (746972) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184101)

America still makes cars--she still services cars, makes accessories for cars, installs radios in cars, buys and sells cars, etc. The manufacturing was moved to where manufacturing was cheaper. If code is cheaper to write somewhere else, it will be written somewhere else--if not now, eventually--if not India, then elsewhere. There will still be other work to do in the US but the American programmer is in the same predicament that the American automotive factory worker was in twenty years ago. That seems bad enough without exaggerating.

Anyway, I thought this was a good article the first time it was posted.

Can we say.... dupe? (1)

donovangn (728687) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183992)

How do dupes like this make it to the front page anyway? Do the mods not read slashdot on a daily basis as well? Great article and all, but I don't think it needs to induce that sinking feeling of deja vu...

What's Left? (5, Insightful)

RickHunter (103108) | more than 10 years ago | (#8183999)

So if service jobs, creative jobs, research jobs, and development jobs all get outsourced... What's left and why, exactly, will the economy survive? Oh, right, we'll all get jobs dealing with people face-to-face, selling things to people with no money. Or we'll all wind up being managers.

Excuse me while I look skeptical and write this off as one more piece to make executives feel more comfortable about destroying their country and killing the population.

Re:What's Left? (3, Insightful)

GnrlFajita (732246) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184120)

You're just not looking at it in the long term. If everyone begins outsourcing to India, then the law of supply and demand requires that eventually the cost of doing this will rise. So they'll begin to outsource to some other, cheaper, country. The cycle will repeat itself until eventually the U.S. is the cheapest place to 'outsource' jobs to.

It's all about perspective, man. Look at the big picture.

On the plus side... (1)

OECD (639690) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184129)

...maybe our schools will admit that score-norming and social promotion aren't really teaching, once their charges have to compete with the products of less 'enlightened' educational systems.

Dupetastic! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184001)

How many times are we going to link to this article? Seven? Twelve? As many times as there are grains of sand in the Ganges?

Re:Dupetastic! (1)

savagedome (742194) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184169)

As many times as there are grains of sand in the Ganges?

More like, as many times someone takes a holy dip in the Ganges? :D

Well, at leat the Malls will go under... (2, Funny)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184016)

the economy will survive, though your job, as it is currently, will likely not

And how is this supposed to happen? Those who do not end up on the streets will be training as Fryolator operators working for enough money to pay the rent.

The only good thing I can see out of this is that all the malls will close.

Choose One: (1)

blackmonday (607916) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184018)

Do you want to live in a world where everything is dirt cheap but you're chronically unemployed, or a world where you are well paid and the cost of living is expensive? Unfortunately, the world's corporations have made the choices for us already, but we're not completely there yet.

Re:Choose One: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184127)

Hopefully, if it gets bad enough, people will STOP HANDING CORPORATIONS POWER ON A PLATE. Stop recognising corporate-owned patents and copyrights. Corporations aren't people themselves, despite stupid american laws. They may be made up of people, but the immortal corporate SHOULD NOT BE GRANTED MONOPOLY RIGHTS like copyright and patent.

If patent didn't exist, you could outcompete the indians - just write code!

Re:Choose One: (2, Insightful)

Dukael_Mikakis (686324) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184132)

Well, I'd want to live in a world where I'm a tech company's CEO and rich as hell. I guess it'd be icing on the cake if everybody else was unemployed and poor so everything was cheaper also.

And it follows: who are the ones in the company choosing to outsource?

Re:Choose One: (1)

SoSueMe (263478) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184164)

Do you want to live in a world where everything is dirt cheap but you're chronically unemployed,

...like India?

Here come the lawyers (4, Interesting)

charnov (183495) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184024)

I was just reading up on Sarbanes-Oxley compliance and how we have to be responsible for everyone who ever touches or affects our digital documents (and we are financially responsible for damages real or perceived). Our lawyers seem to think that if you read the law strictly (as any lawyer trying to sue would) that means that any offshoring that results in any damage or dissemination of data could cause us an enormous amount of money. We already carry a $100 million bond against accidental release of data (we deal in multi-billion dollar international contracts) and our carry gave a big 'NO" to outsourcing in any way shape or form. Hell, I can't even get opensource software in here because if something goes wrong, there is no one to sue.

Crazy world...

Time for PAKI get job!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184028)

American people got jobs all century TIME for PAKI people get job!!! Why american get 42" TV why Paki not get it?? Why Paki need work carwash and american not??? Why Paki can't sit couch to dial order Pizzahut and american can?? Why Paki can't marry wife and sex her all night and american can??? Why american have money and Paki no money??

I want wife, soft coach, 42" tv, pizzaline, be able eat Burger king, fuck with wife on coach!! why not can I do it?? Thank Microsoft it is now posible!!!! Thank you!!! I know windows they pay me.

MOD UP!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184069)

Interesting point, why should American people get it all and some other people not get it? People should be equal.

Re:Time for PAKI get job!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184107)

Good points. Isn't this what RMS is ranting about?

Re:Time for PAKI get job!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184140)

Yes, RMS was preaching in India last week.

Re:Time for PAKI get job!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184163)

This is more like The Microsoft Way! They have tons of positions available in India.

Worrisome (4, Insightful)

dustmote (572761) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184036)

This is one of the reasons that I am relieved that I no longer work in IT. I worry a lot about those friends of mine who still work in the industry, especially those who have kids. I think that part of the problem is also that the market was oversaturated, so to speak. IT became the big degree to get in the 90's, because "that's where the money is", so the jobs that do remain have a number of people applying for them. Post-boom, post-outsourcing computer field sucks.

Not over saturated (1)

charnov (183495) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184083)

There is a critical shortage of IT personnel (good ones) in many areas of the country. This current trend is all about large multinationals trying to race to the bottom in search of greater margins.

Re:Not over saturated (1)

dustmote (572761) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184178)

Good point - it's all relative to where you are. In larger cities that I personally have been to, like Dallas, LA, New York, etc, there is a shortage of IT jobs, but in a lot of places it's the other way around. Perhaps we should all be migrating back to the midwest? :)

Cry me a river (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184046)

I'll shed a tear for the American Programmer the day the American consumer sheds a tear for the sweat shop laborer that made the overprices POS shoes you can afford to pay gross markups for from the likes of Nike.

Your country profits from the exploitation of child labor and people caught in poverty traps... You there, unemployed developer, reading this... reap what you sow.

You are an ignorant fool (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184092)

Nothing more to be said because your mind is dead.

Makes me growl. (3, Interesting)

Faust7 (314817) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184047)

The six Hexawarians are sympathetic but unmoved. They disagree with the very premise that cheap labor is hurting the US.

Seriously, then they need a brain refresher. This is one of the core issues, and it's really simple: Companies seek to maximize profit and minimize expenses. Expenses decrease with cheap labor. If cheap labor is outside the U.S., and can be logistically implemented for the company as such, there's a good chance they'll move some operations offshore. And this has in fact happened.

And they think it's somewhat laughable that, because things aren't going exactly our way, ordinarily change-infatuated Americans are suddenly decrying change.

How on earth is this a laughable thing? Change for the better, change for our better, is a totally pragmatic and understandable goal. When this goal is hurt, yes, we decry it. There's nothing laughable about that at all.

Translation: We're not just cheaper, we're better.

Tell that to Dell.

Oh it's okay (1)

BlueTrin (683373) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184053)

"The conclusion: the smell of inevitability--the economy will survive, though your job, as it is currently, will likely not."

... I thought something bad was about to happen.

Tariffs... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184057)

Labor, where it be Code or some other none tangible should be taxed when exported/imported just like is I want to buy a car or raw steal in UK and import it....

It is ok, I don't want to work anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184073)

Better to stay home, drink beer and refresh slashdot.

Arguing to hear themselves talk (1)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184079)

"But isn't part of this country's vitality its ability to make these kinds of changes?" I counter. "We've done it before - going from farm to factory, from factory to knowledge work, and from knowledge work to whatever's next."

This isn't what makes discussions valuable. It's just talking to hear themselves sound intelligent.

We're stuck with America (1)

donovangn (728687) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184081)

I can happily say that the company I work for is an answering service [7west.com] that will never outsource to India. In fact, one of the owners had me proof a letter she wrote to Marshall Fields' et all to discontinue her service as she was upset to find out their customer service was outsourced to New Delhi.

You're joking right? (1)

BigIrv (695710) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184174)

Any job that can be done remotely (medical record transcription, customer support calls, coding, telemarketing, ...) can and will be outsourced to save money. An answering service would be a perfect job to export. :wq

Mickey Mouse (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184084)

Mickey Mouse will have a SCREAMING ORGASM when he gets his job back from India.

An indian perspective (5, Interesting)

frodo from middle ea (602941) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184089)

If all these jobs are related to call center, I say LET them NOT move to india.

Yes you heard me , let them NOT move to india. The last thing I want as an Indian, my country to be columbia/mexico of the IT industry. I think indians should be ashamed to be the janitors of IT industry.

Also for those of who are going to point to M$ and IBM and HP research centers being moved to India. I would rather see our own Indian companies becoming more self relient and working for the benefit of Indian consumers than US.

The more India depends upon foreign lands to create local jobs, the less it becomes self relinet and lesser powerful.

India for one should take lessons from its colonial past. Rememer East india company came as traders looking for spices and ended up ruling the country for 200 years. This time its going to be different, its economical slavery that we should be afraid of. In this day an age no power is better than economical power and serving joe six-packs for their problems loggin on to AOL, though a short term profitable business , is ruining the resourses of the country.

I am not ranting against US. Infact exactly the opposite. The US and its companies should also strive towards self serving economical structure.

Don't trip over the FUD (5, Insightful)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184095)

Keep in mind that while some jobs are being outsourced to India, it serves companies even better to amplify the FUD about it. They don't have to actually do it, and their wage-slaves are bullied into terror, submission and lower wages -- especially the new-hires.

work with your hands (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184098)


i have made more money since i gave up the stress and became a plumber than i ever did in IT (and i used to manage million $ products), iam fitter , happier and never out of work, plus it's not exactly the sort of job that can be outsourced to India (unless robotics and broadband has come a long way), all of my work is in the community and gives me a good life, fuck all that false IT bullshit and the office politics that goes with it, just gimme a wrench (or a soldering iron in my time off) and iam happy now

Hmmm (2, Insightful)

Pzykotic (72530) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184112)

I don't agree at all with outsourcing IT to India. But can anyone cite examples that show beyond a shadow of a doubt that quality is lost? At indian callcenters, can they not speak english well and frustrate customers? Is their coding sloppy?

If so, I do think this is just a "fad" that will die out once people start complaining on a huge level.

I just hope it doesn't turn around like the car industry did, now american cars are (arguably) worse than chaper foreign cars, unlike 2 decades ago.

India a symptom.. not a cause. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184113)

Just a note to all the people focusing in on India.. if it wasn't them it would be someone else, Eastern Europe, China, Phillippines, Indonesia, etc.

Welcome to the global economy.. something that the U.S. has been pushing. Get busy creating value and not sitting on your ass complaining and you won't have anything to worry about.

Customer Service a biggie (1)

I_am_Rambi (536614) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184122)

Amongst other companies, AOL, and others have outsourced over to india for customer support. This includes "Live support" for problems.

Whoo hooo! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184126)

Go India!

This is programming (2, Insightful)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184130)

To export software or spreadsheets, somebody just needs to hit Return.

That about says it all. No wonder it's so easy to fire people. "All you do all day is hit return!"

This is what happens when people are asked to manage something they refuse to understand. Knowledge is destroyed and the economy is damaged. Think of the thousands of years and tens of millions of dollars worth of education that are being wasted right now.

Although a very good article... (1)

c_dog (219987) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184139)

Isn't this a duplication of a post from January 27th? I know for sure I read the article, as it is still in my browser's history list.

Has Slashdot being outsourced to India? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8184142)

Maybe create a section called 'Your-Daily-Dose-Of India-Dept'

Stop government aide (3, Interesting)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184154)

Stop the government aide to the companies outsourcing to foreign countries. When a company outsources, we still allow them to deduct that cost from their federal (and state) taxes. Lets stop that.

Have anyone considered the privacy and security issues when sending this information to foreign companies? The call center for American Express in India may not have the same security and legal protection for your records -- but then again with the patriot act, we don't have any privacy anyways.

Think ahead (1)

VX1984rr3 (745837) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184155)

Most of the high tech crowd is younger than most, and doesn't remember the outsourcing of manufacturing and even the big offshoring of textiles (remember that jean company by the name of Levi's?). Change is difficult, even moreso in this case because the people displaced are not blue collar, they are intelligent highly paid engineers and developers. This makes it easy to bash, rant, and become emotionally involved in the inevitable. What we need to do now is think ahead. What is the next great industry that the US will teach the world? At lunch the other day, the topic invariably came about and the discussion centered on the infrastructure of the countries where these jobs are going. Maybe there is opportunity in innovating something that will cause those countries to funnel money back to the US for the very badly needed instant improvement in transportation, power/data transmission, and medical care. We are not at the end of the road... just need to wake up and realize that we need to adjust for the turn in the road.

They think SEI level 5 makes them better (1)

OldAndSlow (528779) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184158)

I've seen this several times now in articles about offshoring software. I've been through several SEI level 3 audits, and I'm pretty sure I could get a troup of monkeys to level 3 without much trouble. I've even worked in a level 5 shop.

The thing the SEI doesn't talk about, is that to actaully operate at level 5 (as opposed to get through a level 5 audit), you need to spend about 10% extra -- data collection and analysis mostly, but also experiments to evaluate new technology in a controlled way. Consequently, not many US shops care to get to level 5.

And of course, level 5 doesn't guarantee quality product, just quality process.

Visible vs. Invisible jobs (1)

etesla (578110) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184167)

I don't have a huge issue with a lot of things being outsourced. Manufacturing has been largely outsourced for a very long time, and that didn't kill our economy; I don't think programming being outsourced will kill our economy, either.

But I do think there are jobs that are innapropriately being outsourced. The biggest type is technical and customer support. Trying to get technical support or customer support from Hewlett-Packard, for example, is impossible--they outsource all of their support to a call center in New Delhi. I'm not sure what the issue is, but the standard of customer service I've received from the Delhi center is very low compared to the standard I've received from most U.S. based centers, and the standard of support I've supplied when I've been in customer contact positions. And it's not a fluke; out of twenty-six calls I placed to the India centers, my problem was never resolved, I was placed on hold an average of eight to ten minutes per call, and fourteen calls were disconnected, nine by the agents (not by the phone system). (To put this in perspective, I'm not an irate customer; I've done support for similar products. I'm aware they've heard, "I'm Cisco certified" or "I do networking" a million times, so I listen to what they have to say, and give them concrete examples of troubleshooting steps I've taken before we get into troubleshooting on the phone.)

I think the distinction needs to be drawn between customer contact (visible) and non-customer contact (invisible, at least to the consumer) jobs. "Invisible" jobs can, by and large, be outsourced without too much trouble. But barriers like standards, culture, and language (I lived in India for a year and I still have trouble sometimes understanding technical jargon through some Indian accents) make it simply a bad move to outsource jobs that have a high level of customer visibility.

Colorado Lawmakers to punish outsourcers (1)

rjelks (635588) | more than 10 years ago | (#8184179)

I read about this in the local Denver paper a couple of days ago. Here's [indiatimes.com] an article that describes a few bills, local and federal, that deal with the outsourcing trend. I'm not sure if these will pass in their current form. I have mixed feelings about them too. I've heard some good arguments both ways. If my state punishes outsourcers, it's likely when the trend changes, these companies will be located in California and other states. Mmmmmm. To be fair, I'd probably feel more strongly if my company had outsourced my job to India.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...