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AMD Receives $683M for Dresden Plant

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the chips-of-the-future dept.

AMD 277

Cocooner writes "Infoworld has an article explaining how AMD received $683 million in grants from Germany and the state of Saxony for its next-generation microprocessor wafer facility. The new plant will be located in Dresden, adjacent to Fab 30 and will be called Fab 36. It will be the first AMD 300mm manufacturing facility."

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First "Not the First Post" Post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211548)

Woohoo!

Dear Professor Linux... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211553)

Dear Professor Linux,

How can I keep from soiling my pink underpanties in a fit of apoplexy every time I hear wee French referred to as "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"?

Sincerely,
Francois P.

Disapointing Linux Benchmarks. (Socre:5, Insighful (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211551)

After hearing how much the improvements in Linux performance was, I decided to do some benchmarks.

Here are the Machines I used.
AMD Opeteron 3400+ with UltraSCSI320 Hard disks
XServe G5
386SX with MFM hard disks

Copying a 17 Mebibyte file from one hard drive to another.
SCO UnixWare : 7.3 Seconds
Windows Longhorn Server beta : 7.5 Seconds.
Windows Server 2003 : 9 Seconds
Mac OS X Server 2004 : 9.5 Seconds
Windows 2000 Server : 11 Seconds
Linux 2.7 Server : 16 Seconds.
Linux 2.6 Server : 18 Seconds
MSDOS on a 386DX : 20 Seconds.
Linux 2.4 Server : 30 Seconds
Linux 2.2 Server : 48 Seconds
Linux 2.0 Server : 75 Seconds.

As you can See, Linux dosent come CLOSE to beating enterprise systems at high performance servers. EVEN Msdos from a 386SX smokes Linux!
Don't mod me down unless you can justify these speeds. It is pretty obvious by now why SCO is suing Linux, because they are stealing their code to gain speed. And yes, DMA WAS ENABLED.

Re:Disapointing Linux Benchmarks. (Socre:5, Insigh (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211684)

haha you misspelled "score"

ROI? (4, Insightful)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211555)

"The new Dresden facility ... will employ 1,000 local workers when it is completed"

Why would the government give a $683M break to AMD to get 1000 jobs? That's two thirds of a million bucks per job. It's amazing that a $2B facility can be staffed by only 1000 people.

-B

Re:ROI? (1)

Tremanhil (246867) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211571)

One Word: Automation...

Probably a highly automated plant.

Re:ROI? (5, Insightful)

Xeth (614132) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211573)

That may seem initially true, but there are bound to me massive general economic effects from employing 1000 highly skilled workers and their families, and all the increased support business that would come up around them.

Re:ROI? (1)

pipingguy (566974) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211635)

How much do bunny suit wearers earn, anyway? Is a Ph.D required?

Re:ROI? (3, Interesting)

rif42 (206260) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211674)

employing 1000 highly skilled workers

Most of these jobs will likely not need to have much special skills, chip fab work is in some way just another form of assembly line work. I guess it is at most 200 of them that needs to be highly skilled.

Other than that I think your argument of an ecomony knock-off effect do hold.

Re:ROI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211695)

1000 highly skilled workers

think silicon burger flippers

Re:ROI? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211705)

Not really, let's say they're each making 50k. 50 million a year. It stays 50 million a year, no matter how many people become the beneficiaries. Money isn't magical, one euro doesn't magically become two because another business moves into the neighborhood in order to serve the workers.

Re:ROI? (5, Insightful)

sjwt (161428) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211752)

no, but the other 2billion Euro's that AMD is spending will stay in the german ecconomy..

So the govermnet spends 600millon,
to put a total of 2.5 billion in the ecconomy.

you are right, its not 1 becomes 2,
its 1 becomes 4.

Re:ROI? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211761)

That's construction. It's a nice shot in the arm in the beginning, but after it's done I don't see how the plant is going to bring massive amounts of money into the Dresden economy.

Re:ROI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211777)

Through taxes, and the workers and their families must consume things.

Re:ROI? (1)

avendesora (687006) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211765)

Just building the plant will generate local income. Those 2 billon dollars are for a large part going to fuel local jobs/companies (and thus generate tax income), even before the 1000 workers move in.

Re:ROI? (5, Insightful)

MadAnthony02 (626886) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211586)

Why would the government give a $683M break to AMD to get 1000 jobs? That's two thirds of a million bucks per job.

Well, first of all it's in grants and allowances, so the governemnt probably doesn't look at it as "real money" - and I'm guessing it's probably spread out over a long period of time, ie tax breaks for the next x years.

Secondly, they are probably figuring that the plant will make suppliers and customers of AMD move nearby, thus providing more jobs and taxes. It's debateable if this actually works, but that's probably their thought process.

Re:ROI? (5, Interesting)

davegust (624570) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211720)

they are probably figuring that the plant will make suppliers and customers of AMD move nearby

Wafer fabs usually spend a relatively small amount of money in local economies. The bulk of the cost of a new fab is allocated to new equipment, which is mostly imported from the U.S. and Japan.

Still, there are the 1000 local permanent jobs, local jobs for construction of the actual building, money spent by equipment vendors support personnel in hotels, local costs for water and power, and local taxes.

A fun anecdote regarding water consumption: I write software for wet benches. I shipped a bug once to a fab in Phoenix that caused their DI water consumption to skyocket. The fab's DI water plant hit max capacity, and the City of Chandler had problems keeping up with the plant's consumption.

Here in Boise, local philanthropist J.R. Simplot built the city a park with a dozen or so soccer fields. The real purpose behind this park - a place to distribute processed waste water from the Micron plant. Not that I have any problem with that.

Re:ROI? (1)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211725)

That could be the process, but my guess is that this is the process instead (and it is a political process, not a "thought" process):

AMD is a big company with money to spend (not bribes, but you know how it works). Being a single company, they also present a unified front for negotiations. The local government (or federal, I don't know with this deal) has few motivations to look unfavorably on AMD's requests.

On the other hand, income tax payers, sales tax payers, and property tax payers, do not have nearly the same forces to bring to the table in negotiations. So benefits of luring AMD into Dresden get magnified, while the benefits of cutting taxes on "the mob" get overlooked.

Same kind of thing goes on with building Sports Stadiums here in the U.S.

What you are saying is not wrong, exactly, but it is always a mistake to consider the state to be a reasonable actor.

Re:ROI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211594)

If they did not give the break, they wouldn't have came in and they would have made zilch. -- I am an anonymous coward. My address is 9641 Sunset Blvd, Beverly Hills, CA 90210.

Taxes... (1)

Dan East (318230) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211603)

I assume the chips produced at the new plant would generate tax revenue too.

Dan East

Re:Taxes... (2, Informative)

Sumocide (114549) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211622)

Dream on, corporations of their size hardly have to pay taxes in Germany. Especially in the former GDR.

Re:ROI? (2, Interesting)

matze235 (568521) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211610)

I have to agree. This is even more disappointing as the government is cutting social funds. Here in Berlin they are cutting the low-priced metro ticket for people with low income, investments in culture and education, etc.

The economy lobbyists have such a strong influence on politics.. that's really sad.

Re:ROI? (1)

Tongue In A Box (664849) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211614)

Oh great, 1000 workers for a $2B facility? I hope this doesn't mean they've figured out how to let Indian workers remotely do that stuff too...

That's nothing... (5, Funny)

Dan East (318230) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211617)

Just look at how many people work at the International Space Station.

Dan East

Re:ROI? (1)

sjwt (161428) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211726)

tax.

Its not just that one plant that is there,
they are hopeing to stop amd going else where.

Re:ROI? (3, Interesting)

HungWeiLo (250320) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211773)

I apologize for not being able to answer your question. I live in the US, you see. I am not familiar with the concept of government incentives and payments in exchange for favors from the corporate sector. Not only that - I live in a state [wa.gov] which will give 2+ billion US, free training to their workers, freeway expansion around their facilities, and a free cargo dock to our favorite corporate entity [boeing.com] in exchange for 1,200 jobs. But since our state government knows best, it must be done because it has a tremendous ROI.

This is great news (-1, Troll)

Amsterdam Vallon (639622) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211556)

It will benefit AMD, Germany, and us as consumers. They will product better quality products at lower price points. There's not much to lose here, really.

I think it will also benefit the Linux community because AMD tradiationally delivers a better price/performance ratio than Intel. AMD getting better can only mean that Linux's power increases, both server-side and on the desktop.

Kudos to AMD!

MOD PARENT UP +1 INSIGHTFUL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211602)

It truly will help Linux.

MOD PARENT -1, TROLL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211656)

parent is a piece of shit, fishing for empty karma so he can then troll, troll, troll. Check his history, and try (TRY) to find a Slaughter college (or a slauhgter, for that matter).

MOD MY NUTZ IN YOUR ASS. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211690)

...fucking pathetic that they wouldn't want to or couldn't build in the US (cost)....

America is fucking pathetic.

See, Communism works!! Thanks, Germany! (-1, Flamebait)

JonTurner (178845) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211799)

>>It will benefit AMD, Germany, and us as consumers.

Yes, let me be the first American to say "Thanks, all you hard-working Germans for paying high taxes to subsidize the cost of my computer chips. Rock on!"

Hey, all my college professors were right -- Socialism DOES work. (Just not for the people who must pay for it.)

Where WTO when you need it? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211557)

Where WTO when you need it?

Re:Where WTO when you need it? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211627)

Where a verb when you need it?

AMD 300mm? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211561)

Holy smokes, are they planning on stuffing the whole motherboard into the CPU? I know, I know, it's a typo... :)

Re:AMD 300mm? (5, Informative)

scifience (674659) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211574)

No, it isn't a typo. They are talking about the size of the silicon wafer, not the processor itself. If you had RTFA, you would have known that the whole point of this is that is more cost effective to use bigger silicon wafers since more processors can then be made out of a single wafer.

Re:AMD 300mm? (5, Informative)

Afrob (256160) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211628)

And because of their size these are called 'Pizza Wafers'.

The die size of an Athlon XP is about 129mm^2, so at 3/4 surface usage about 410 Athlons would fit on a single wafer. Must be really cheap to produce those things...

Re:AMD 300mm? (1)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211579)

A wafer is a 300mm disk. That wafer is cut up into several square CPU cores.

-B

Re:AMD 300mm? (1)

jtshaw (398319) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211615)

Ya, the reason it is worth mentioning that they are using 300mm wafer's is a lot of the older processor were done with 200mm wafer's so they got less cores out of a batch.

Re:AMD 300mm? (4, Informative)

garethw (584688) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211596)

I know, it's a typo...

Actually, it isn't. 300mm is the diamaeter of a complete wafer, from which multiple die are cut.

AMD is a charity ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211562)


nice to see fair trade and buisness in action, who needs the lottery when you can just become an AMD executive and with all this free money about you are a millionaire overnight

Re:AMD is a charity ? (2, Funny)

Selecter (677480) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211735)

before the last quarter AMD had not made a profit in so long poeple were starting to wonder if they would ever get back in the black.

IF you want money grubbing execs, try Halliburton scheming with their best bud DICK Cheney to invade a country so they can rebuild it.

1. Look around for new target in War on Terrorism

2. DICK Cheney suggests Iraq. Bush goes "duh..OK"

3. Invade Iraq. Destroy everything. Make sure the oil ministry is the only safe building in Bagdad. Dont guard anything else, no matter how priceless.

4.?

5. Halliburton execs openly sneer, point, and laff at AMD and their pitiful attempts to make money. AMD cannot invade anyone! AMD has no power!

300mm? (1)

i_am_syco (694486) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211566)

Whats the nm-age supposed to be? 90? 130? Even thinner?

Re:300mm? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211595)

Answer from another story of Infoworld [infoworld.com] :

"The facility, named AMD Fab 36, will produce chips on 300 millimeter wafers and is expected to employ 1,000 people. Full volume production is scheduled for 2006, the Sunnyvale, California, company said."

Re:300mm? (1)

Amorpheus_MMS (653095) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211599)

You can be sure they're planning for it to be 90nm.

Re:300mm? (1)

abelsson (21706) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211636)

65nm.

Re:300mm? (1)

RedShoeRider (658314) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211650)

It's supposed to be 300mm. It refers to the size of the wafer that they're processing, not the nm-size of the transistors. Bigger wafer = more cores-per-wafer = higher thoughput.

Re:300mm? (1)

JamesP (688957) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211681)

That's wafer size, RTFA... Not the size of the works in the wafer...

Labor Costs (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211569)

The Germans can afford it because they're saving all that money by using Jewish concentration camp prisoners to do all the work.

Oh, wait, no. That was during WWII. My mistake.

Re:Labor Costs (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211590)

At least Hitler eventually did the right thing and gassed the fucks.

Just in time for the next B-17 raid (-1, Offtopic)

xsfo (604140) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211575)

Just in time for the next B-17 raid

Re:Just in time for the next B-17 raid (1)

Dolphinzilla (199489) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211741)

I think this post is funny - obviously the moderator who modded this as a troll was too young to understand the reference and didn't watch enough WW II war movies or Hogan's Hero's as a child...

Interesting ad combination on the article page (0, Funny)

Quila (201335) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211576)

One MS ad telling you Linux TCO is higher than Windows and one from ZoneAlarm reminding you of all the security vulnerabilities you're going to have to guard against.

Dresden? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211585)

First you bomb the city to pieces in WW II, and now you expect them to pay you for the factory? Wouldn't it be fair if American Micro Devices paid Dresden for all the war damages?

MICROSOFT IS GOING TO FIREBOMB DRESDEN (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211588)



Flaming death is what the West does best.

Dresden (0, Redundant)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211600)

Wow! Dresdem is a nice city. I think its a good place for AMD. However I would preferto pays for FOSS development. 1000 Jobs? No problem.

Re:Dresden (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211609)

FOSS developers don't pay as much tax as AMD employees will.

Re:Dresden (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211612)

Is anyone else angry that a company called American Micro Devices is building a plant in Dresden when we need those jobs here in the USA?

This is wrong!

God Bless America, I've got O'Reilly TiVo'd and I'm going to go watch it now.

Neocons unite!

Bush/Cheney in '04!

Re:Dresden (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211667)

no, because that's not what AMD stands for, moron.

Avoid production stop (3, Insightful)

rif42 (206260) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211606)

AMD, based in Sunnyvale, California, has no plans to convert its existing Dresden fab to 300 millimeters because it wouldn't be a cost-effective way to introduce that technology, Prairie said.

Probably also because it would for a longer time block the main production facility for Athlon and Optoron chips.

If you have many fabs doing the same kind of chip process like Intel it is much easier to temporary stop one of them.

Bomber Harris (-1, Flamebait)

orthogonal (588627) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211608)

Thank you, Air Marshal Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris and the men of the Eighth Air Force.

Re:Bomber Harris (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211768)

What flamebait? If only we could blast some of our older cities flat and start again.

outsourcing (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211611)

first they send our coding jobs to India..

now they send our CPU fabrication jobs to Germany.

whats next?

maybe the british (-1)

u-238 (515248) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211613)

would like to help.

it wont exactly make up for pointlessly killing 300,000 o dresden's inhabitants 60 years ago, but its a start

I call BULLSHIT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211662)

The German's started bombing London a full five years before Dresden was bombed, It is a horrible tragedy that civilians were attacked, (on either side) but let us not forget who were the aggressors. The German's attack on London made it morally (in the relative morality of war) acceptable wipe out an entire city, the German will had to be crushed in order to end the bloodshed STARTED by the Germans.

Re:I call BULLSHIT! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211693)

Get back in your oven you fucking kike!

Re:I call BULLSHIT! (1, Interesting)

u-238 (515248) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211776)

A.) The destruction of Dresden proposed no military value whatsoever (aside from some who argued that lenses were being produced there used in rifle scopes - so late in the war, anyway, that this hearsay had no impact even if true)

B.) Less than 6,000 died in bombing raids in london, and most targets which the Germans set their site at were of MILITARY VALUE. More people died in Dresden than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Allied apologists for the massacre have often "twinned" Dresden with the English city of Coventry. But the 380 killed in Coventry during the entire war cannot begin to compare with over 1,000 times that number who were slaughtered in 14 hours at Dresden. London suffered damages of only 6,000 acres througout the entire war, and in one night, 1,600 acres of land were destroyed in the Dresden massacre.

What about returns ?? (3, Interesting)

shamir_k (222154) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211621)

How much new revenues will this new plant bring into Dresden? 600 million plus seems an awful lot of money to get just 1000 additional jobs.

Unless the city going to get substantial revenues from taxes, or increased business opportunities for vendors, it seems like a huge waste of money.

In Socialist Germany (-1, Troll)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211623)

The State gives the people's money away to YOU!

(Seriously, why not just take the cash and give it to the people who would have been employed there, and cut out the AMD middleman?)

Re:In Socialist Germany (1)

matze235 (568521) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211649)

The problem is that the people who would have been employed there have much less influence in politics than a few managers from amd.

Re:In Socialist Germany (2, Interesting)

goldspider (445116) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211669)

An excellent and oft-modded-down point!

And to think of how socialists in the U.S. piss and moan when the federal government awards contracts to oil firms. Double standard, anyone? Who's to say that there's not something going on behind the scenes between AMD and Schroeder(sp)?

Re:In Socialist Germany (2, Informative)

JanneM (7445) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211767)

Of course, they aren't really giving money away to AMD. It is rather in the form of tax rebates and the like - it is not losing any money, just not bringing in as much as if AMD had paid full rates on everything (and the reality is that likely AMD would have gone elsewhere and not paid a dime).

Re:In Socialist Germany (4, Insightful)

selderrr (523988) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211670)

it has been tried. it's called communism. it failed. miserably.

Re:In Socialist Germany (1)

The Analog Kid (565327) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211677)

Seriously, why not just take the cash and give it to the people who would have been employed there, and cut out the AMD middleman?

It's obvious, just giving the money to the people shows people that they do not have to work, and the government will just give them money. Atleast with this they are more productive then just sitting at home and watching television and getting fat. I believe that Germany's obese population is going to double within the next 10 years and just giving them money will not help it.

Re:In Socialist Germany (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211698)

"It's obvious, just giving the money to the people shows people that they do not have to work, and the government will just give them money."

But that's exactly what socialism is! How else can you describe an economic system where government confiscates unequal amounts of money from its citizens (depending on how much they make) and redistributes it equally in the form of social programs?

If you know the government (ahem, taxpayers) is going to take care of you, where's the motivation to work?

Re:In Socialist Germany (1)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211721)

Never heard of decreasing marginal utility? As in an extra $100 to a millionare doesn't make much difference.

Re:In Socialist Germany (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211758)

Hardly the point; whether it's $100 or $100 million, it is not the government's money.

Re:In Socialist Germany (4, Insightful)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211683)

Because this way creates 1000 skilled jobs directly in the area, which increases tax income and reduces unemployment payments. The local economy is helped by the money from the jobs, other companies (builders, suppliers etc) in the area benefit. All round the area's economy improves. This is about long-term growth, not the short term benefits.

It is the job of the government, after all, to improve the lot of its people.

Re:In Socialist Germany (1, Flamebait)

goldspider (445116) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211745)

"It is the job of the government, after all, to improve the lot of its people."

I STRONGLY disagree! In a truly free society, one is given equal opportunity to improve his OWN (and family's) life. Whether or not he succeeds at that is in his own hands, not the government's.

The only role government should play in that is ensuring opportunity remain equally available to its citizens. It is not the job of government to force successful citizens to pick up the slack for those who aren't as successful.

Re:In Socialist Germany (3, Insightful)

JanneM (7445) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211786)

You may "STRONGLY disagree" - but it is the will of the local population that sets the goals for any government.

If, the voters does set the goal of it's govenment to be improvement of the lot of the people, then so be it. Who are you to disagree - unless you live there and have a right to vote, in which case you can make your views heard just fine.

Thankfully... (1)

jotaeleemeese (303437) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211796)

.... that extreme Thatcherite way of thinking has been thoroughly descredited and thrown in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

No serious politicial party would subscribe to such reidiculous statement.

lower costs vs. intel (1)

krewemaynard (665044) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211625)

By using the larger wafers, AMD can cut more chips from each wafer and reduce the manufacturing cost per chip...

Intel Corp. already has two 300-millimeter plants in Oregon and one in New Mexico. One 300 millimeter plant is under construction in Ireland, and another existing facility in Arizona is being converted to the larger wafers.


AMD chips are already cheaper than intel, even though intel already has plants to make these types of wafers. now that these new plants will save them even more money in manufacturing costs, does that mean the market prices will get even lower vs intel??

--krewe, ready for my new AMD CPU :-P

Re:lower costs vs. intel (2, Interesting)

Durinia (72612) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211722)

If I remember correctly, the Intel 300mm fabs are just beginning to produce commercial chips (I don't remember which process they run). So, I don't think we've seen the effect of their 300mm fabs yet.

Socialistic contradiction of Free Trade. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211633)

This is goverment intervention of the free markets.
This is a threat to Globalism!

The period between 1950 and 1973 was by far the most successful of the century. This was an era characterised by capital controls, fixed exchange rates, strong trade unions, a large public sector and a general acceptance of government's role in demand management. The average annual growth in "per capita real GDP" throughout the world was 2.9% - precisely twice as high as the average rate in the two decades since then.

Re:Socialistic contradiction of Free Trade. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211655)

what are you, retarded? the 50s sucked cock.

Re:Socialistic contradiction of Free Trade. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211678)

the 50s sucked cock.

Sounds like good times to me. Or don't you like to get your cock sucked? Weirdo.

Re:Socialistic contradiction of Free Trade. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211764)

The period between 1950 and 1973 was by far the most successful of the century.
WTF! my country was under a fascist dictatorship during all these years, and capitalist pigs rejoiced YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD

Re:Socialistic contradiction of Free Trade. (0)

nakedforjesus (73005) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211775)

No, this is a government trying to curb rampant unemployment. People aren't content when the jobless rates start to reach 22%.

Re:Socialistic contradiction of Free Trade. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211794)

Yeah. And while all the free world was swimming in the riches created by the post-war economic growth, the people in my country were struggling to survive under a Communist dictatorship. A golden age it was...

Germany and the problems with juden (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211664)

I can't believe that Adolf Hitler just took a shit on a jew in a concentration camp! What the fuck? Our Fuhrer should show some modesty, even if jews are nothing but shit toilets. Anybody thinking anything different will be personally sent to a camp by Adolf Hitler himself. 30 SS soldiers will come to toss you in the jew oven. There is no way you can play it off as stupidity.

It doesn't help at all that Jews steal everything from hard working Aryans. They can hardly walk for all they steal from us! How are you going to explain your jew-loving to your family when they are in the poorhouse because some jew stole their money and life? Our Fuhrer will make you drop trou before you get put in the oven just for good measure.

There it is. The SS is knocking on your door now. You have to go.

think back! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211666)

"...AMD received $683 million in grants from Germany and the state of Saxony for its next-generation microprocessor wafer facility."

it's not like AMD is gonna change the money into
euro coins and stack them to make a nice looking
factory made from coins, no sir.

the question really is:
who owned the land before AMD bought it (tax?).
who is building the factory(tax?).
who is supplying power(tax?).
who is building the generators that produce
the needed electricity(tax?).
who gets to have a peek at the technology (know-how) once complet(no tax!) :)
who gets know-how for building a chip
producing factory? (def. more to come!)
etc.

this is a micro investment and the reward is def.
going to pay off as long as people have to use
computers (e.g. no telepathy available).

In other news.... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211672)

The German VP of AMD was assaulted by President Schroeder who, according tohis own explanation, was "trying to kiss his boots".

Ever notice (1, Flamebait)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211699)

How there are never stories titled:

"Huge new manufacturing facility to be constructed in $US_STATE?"

or

"$BLOATED_CORPORATION to hire 12,000 new workers?"

C++ vs Ada (stroustrup post on comp.land.ada) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211703)

efficiency is of prime importance. Thus the use of
C would be limited and well controlled, rather like small assembler routines are currently used in some systems for the same purpose. Indeed the move to C++ should only be considered in the case of upgrading a body of C programs for backwards compatibility. In the case of new projects alternatives to C and C++ should seriously be considered.
advanced musician ensure that the tempo of a
piece is correct, and since playing to a metronome
is more difficult, will help sharpen the musicians
performance of the piece. The musician does not
just view the metronome as an aid for beginners,
or as something that restricts him to a set beat, but
as a tool that helps produce a polished and
professional performance. C should not be seen as
a language to which you graduate after you have
learnt to program in languages with safety checks.
In fact changing to C or C++ is a great step
backwards. Languages with consistency and
semantic checks are essential aids to the
production of professional software.
Programming is the orchestration of change
within a large state space. Object-oriented
techniques provide a method of simple division
and management of such state spaces. Managing
such state spaces requires the simplest techniques,
in order to guard against detectable
inconsistencies that lead to errors in executable
systems. C and C++ do not implement the simple
management of a large state space, and allow
many potential errors to go undetected. The role
of a language as a tool cannot seriously be
regarded as some authoritarian that stops us doing
what we want or need to do, as many languages
with type safety and consistency checks are often
viewed. Programming languages should embody
the collective wisdom of common sense practices
that have been learnt over many years, by
common and painful experience. C++ lacks the
implementation of much of this wisdom.
[Sakkinen 92] observes that much of the C++
literature has few references to external work or
research. It fails to draw on the insights and
progress made by many researchers. This leads
me to believe that C++ is parochial and removed
from the many advances that will make
production of systems easier and more cost
effective.
This paper has shown many cases where C++
uses old C mechanisms to provide things that can
and should be expressed consistently within the
object-oriented paradigm. For example type
casting. The move to pure object-oriented
languages will facilitate more consistent
programming and avoid many typical errors that
occur in software production. C++ also makes
distinctions that belong in the ?how?
implementation domain. For example, ?.? vs ?->,
and variables and functions. These make
bookkeeping work for programmers, which
should be handled by a compiler. But then C++
fails to make distinctions that belong in the ?what?
problem domain. For example, procedures vs
functions. Making distinctions in the ?how?
domain adds inconvenience to the language.
Failing to make distinctions in the ?what? domain
limits the power and expressiveness of the
language. The amount of change required in C++
to address the issues raised in this paper is seen as
largely insurmountable.
It is better to detect and avoid errors than to
fix them. The fixing of errors happens many times
during the development process. This slows down
the development process, and is therefore costly.
Good programmers in this context (often called
?gurus?), are those who recognise symptoms, and
recommend fixes. Good programmers in the better
sense (often called ?impractical idealistic
dreamers?) adopt better practices (programming
languages being a subset of these), that avoid
error in the first place.
A programming language is just a tool, in the
same way that an axe is a tool. If the axe is blunt
when chopping down a tree, then procedures,
processes and methodologies could be invented to
make it as effective as possible. But that leaves
the real problem unsolved; that the axe that does
the real work is blunt. So it is with programming
languages. To develop a system, it must be
implemented, and a programming language is the
tool to do the real work. If the language is blunt,
then procedures, processes and methodologies
might alleviate the situation, but they do not solve
the problem. Once the axe is sharpened, then real
progress is made, and the procedures, processes
and methodologies also become more effective. A
good axeman will have good axe wielding
technique, but given a choice of axes will choose
the sharpest implement. A poor axeman could be
ineffective with even a sharp axe, but the axe
maker will still strive to produce the sharpest axe
for the good axeman. The argument that poor
programmers will produce bad programs in any
language so we shouldn?t bother with better
languages is fallacious.
C encourages gurus who spout false wisdom
on obscure subjects. Writing programs in C is
often called ?coding?. Coding is writing obscure
encryptions that will later have to be decoded, by
none else than a guru! C also encourages
programming by guesswork. C programmers often
solve ?bugs? by adding extra ()s, *s and &s,
without understanding the problem. People who
attain proficiency at this guesswork, are known as,
well you guessed it, gurus!!
The view that correctness checks are training
wheels for students, which gurus don?t need must
be dispelled. Many disciplines have techniques to
ensure correctness. For example, the metronome
in music is not just for students, but will help an
As mentioned in the introduction, both sides
of the analysis/design vs implementation debate
C++?? 2nd Edition page 28

It is good to help a competitor of Intel. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211708)

What more needs to be said.

Also planning to build one in Alveston, UK. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211709)

AMD is planning in 2008 to build a 500MM fab for its upcomming 65 nm chips near alveston, in the United Kingdom. Alveston is a small town north of the City of Bristol. The plans are spotty at the moment, buit it is supposedly bieng built for The Opteron X chip, that features a 5Ghz FSB!

Mod down (4, Informative)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211754)

The parent just pulled "facts" out of his ass.
Opteron X -> isnt planed
5Ghz Fsb -> Opteron has no fsb
500mm -> even intel says that the next 5 years they wont TRY creating bigger than 300mm wafers,
65nm -> 2008 65nm will be old stuff...

Fab 36 (5, Funny)

VanillaCoke420 (662576) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211749)

So will 36 trendy gay men decorate the factory and have the workers wear something stylish?

Advancements are a wonderful thing (3, Interesting)

locutus2k (103517) | more than 10 years ago | (#8211781)

It is nice to see AMD expanding its company. I have been using AMD chips for several years now, and couldn't be happier. When a company spends the time and money to make developments in arcitecture, they should get something nice in return. Unfortunatly I don't feel intel has been making the advances. The Intel name has been carrying them for a while now, and its time AMD got their recognition.

I've been using the Athlon64 chips and couldn't be happier. Hopefully the new plant will help them nibble away another part of Intel's market share.

Well (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8211790)

I live in the North of England, and at least the AMD plant is still around and AMD is a German company, unlike the white elephant of Siemens.
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