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Mac Version Of Halo Exemplifies Piracy Problem?

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the copy-and-forget dept.

Games 266

An anonymous reader writes "MacSoft takes popular games and ports them to the Macintosh for all the Mac users to enjoy, but according to a TwinCities.com article, apparently there are far more users pirating Mac Halo than actually buying it A MacSoft spokesman 'didn't release sales figures [for Halo] but said illegal downloads number at least in the hundreds of thousands.'" The article uses this specific game to discuss how PC and Mac publishers are "...making gamers enter special codes, authenticate themselves online and jump through more hoops." It ends by describing the pain of the developer in seeing their title pirated: "It was a dagger in the hearts of guys who worked 12 to 14 hours a day [on Halo]... We're on an emotional high, and it all comes crashing down."

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Hundreds of thousands?? (5, Funny)

Gr33nNight (679837) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218869)

but said illegal downloads number at least in the hundreds of thousands.

There are over a hundred thousand mac gamers?!?

(disclamer: this is a joke, i own a mac :)

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (4, Interesting)

GizmoS (731002) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219114)

It's cheaper to buy an Xbox ($179) and Halo ($29) than to try to upgrade a mac via combinations of hardware and software to get Halo to run well.

Heck- it's cheaper to buy a PC clone at $400+ than to try to get Halo to run well on a Mac.

I have a 17" iMac G4/800 with 1GB of ram- this system will not upgrade "officially" much beyond this configuration. This system is 14 months old. It will not run any of the FPS PC ports from the past 2 years with an acceptible frame rate (including Wolfenstien, Jedi Knight II, and No One Lives For Ever.). I am not complaining about the inevitable obsolecence- it's the price curv between x86 hardware and Apple's.

There is clearly a lot of polish and pazaz that goes into Mac systems. There is some bleeding edge risks too. There is, even with budget macs, no way to compare their performacne to PC counterparts at half the price. x86 beats the Mac hands down in budget power.

While MacPlay and similar companies make bank on game-desperate mac owners trying to keep up with the PC market, it's disgusting to me. I bought NOLF for $49 when the PC version was $20 and the sequel, NOLF2, was $39 (and most retailers bundled the original in for free with NOLF2).

I am done investing in Mac games. I'd rather put the budget towards Linux x86 as a gaming platform where many development houses are doing parallel development on Win32 and Linux instead of porting. It may lack polish, but at least I'd get more from my hardware investment.

I don't condone the raping of intellectual property- but just the same, in NY state it's practically impossible to return software. At $50 a title, the gamble is too high on the Mac platform. I'd rather go without or choose a platform alternative.

I am fortunate in that I have an Xbox, Linux and Win32 hosts here to kick around with. I find that I do most of my gaming these days (as little as I can game these days) on the Xbox. I can rent titles before I buy them to see that I am getting what I expect. I just drop in the disk, fire up XBOX live, and embarass myself publicly. On Win32 or Linux I spent more time updating drivers and other code and tweaking the system than actually gaming. The console (xbox, ps2, whaterver) just smokes the Mac for most action games, and it's hard to say that the Mac has more variety than today's consoles for most game genres.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (0, Troll)

ealar dlanvuli (523604) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219274)

Have you tried fps gaming on x86 laptops?

The situation really isn't all that much better over there.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (2, Interesting)

Arkham (10779) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219400)

The thing is, some of us are not debating Mac vs. something else for gaming.

I bought a Dual 2GHz G5 with a Radeon 9800 Pro and 1GB of RAM. I did not buy it to play games, but to do work at which the Macintosh excels (Java development, video editing, etc). However, since I have such a spiffy Mac, why not play games on it?

For this reason, I buy Mac games, because I have a Mac and I don't have a console. I don't really need a console though -- I have a great gaming machine in the Mac. I could buy a console, or a cheap PC, and play games on them, but why? The Mac has all the good games now, or at least enough to keep me busy. My games folder contains:

Aliens vs. Predator II
4x4 Evolution 2
Wolfenstein
UT 2003
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Tiger Woods 2003
Soldier of Fortune II
Myth II
Medal of Honor
Max Payne
MacMAME
Jedi Knight II
Jedi Academy
Halo
Quake3
OIDS.X
No One Lives Forever
Myth TFL
America's Army
Fallout 2
Giants

There are a dozen others that I will buy when I tire of these. What more does a casual gamer need?

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219841)

I've said it once, I'll say it again. Half Life and Battlefield 1942.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (1)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219970)

Yes, but you don't have CounterStrike! Still my favorite PC game. (And some tribes1/2..)

But, also Mac [apple.com] , The Sims, SecondLife [secondlife.com] , CivIII, AOE2, Dungeon Siege, Diablo2, MOHAA Expansions (Spearhead), Rainbow Six.

And Mac only has AirBurst [apple.com] , great multiplayer game, one of my favorite Mac games. (Guess it won best of Mac World too.)

I havn't tried Halo on my mac, it only has a ATI 9000, waiting 3 months when ATI releases its new GPU and prices drop, should be able to pick up an ATI 9800 pro for around 100 bux. The GPU's should be 2-3x faster (R500?) My ATI 9700 Pro on my XP box is almost acceptable, I wouldn't even try on an ATI 9000. That Halo Speed patch should be out soon, maybe it will be playable. I do like how you can play across Mac/PC versions. I hope more developers do that.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (1)

aflat362 (601039) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219608)

Halo is one of the most hardware demanding PC games available. Getting it to run well on a Windows PC would take much more than $400. Your graphics card alone would run a minimum of $200 for whatever the current Nvidia or ATI higher-end budget card selection is. On top of that you will need a fast CPU and plenty of RAM uppping your budget to more like $800 for the whole package - if you are good at shopping around.

I would assume that since the Windows port is so hardware intensive that the Mac port would be as well. I would have guessed that a power mac G5 would be where you want to start when thinking about playing Halo on a Mac to get anything close to a good user experience.

But, of course, If you consider yourself a gamer at all, the thought of playing anything on a Macintosh would seem silly when you have all these consoles and Windows computers that work perfectly fine for gaming.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (0)

Duty (731705) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219737)

What hardware store do you visit where a GeForce2 MX-400 is $200 and a Slot A Athlon 750mHz/motherboard/memory are $800? Because they seem to be working fine for me (although particle effects are a bit choppy.)

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (1)

GizmoS (731002) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220049)

I agree about the hardware requirements specific for halo... but at even $800- or even $1000, that's still half of what a 1g RAM, 17" iMac G4/800 cost in October 2002. A october 2002 $1000 PC clone can run Halo ok on modest settings, and still have some upgrade path and options...

It's good to see that we agree- that with choices, a clear platform winner seems to emerge- in computer (not console gaming), the Windows system reigns king for most people.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (4, Interesting)

MalleusEBHC (597600) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219880)

I have a 17" iMac G4/800 with 1GB of ram- this system will not upgrade "officially" much beyond this configuration. This system is 14 months old. It will not run any of the FPS PC ports from the past 2 years with an acceptible frame rate (including Wolfenstien, Jedi Knight II, and No One Lives For Ever.). I am not complaining about the inevitable obsolecence- it's the price curv between x86 hardware and Apple's.

I call bull. While I upgraded last fall to a Dual 2 GHz G5 with a Radeon 9800, before that I gamed constantly on my 450 MHz G4 Cube with a Rage 128. One of the games I played the most was Jedi Knight II, and my Cube handled it easily. I also played Ghost Recon extensively, and rarely would I run into having too low frame rates. Sure you won't be able to play them with graphics settings at the highest, but a year+ old iMac is not meant to be an awesome gaming machine.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (1)

dn15 (735502) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220011)

My G4 also plays Jedi Knight II quite well.533 MHz, 640 MB RAM, 64 MB GeForce4 MX. I find it hard to believe an iMac/800 couldn't handle this game.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (4, Insightful)

GizmoS (731002) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220111)

I think you point out something interesting- that frame rates at specific resolutions and other metrics boil down to the fact that gaming performance is subjective. What I may consider a reasonable frame rate at a reasonable resolution for a fixed resolution flat-panel (such as the iMac's included display) may not be attainable on my configuration. Just the same, the performance you saw and the gaming experience you had on the G4 might have been acceptible to you. Have you gone back to gaming on the G4 since getting your dual G5?

My expectations are tainted by my experiences on more open hardware platforms such as the x86 provides. These games under windows perform significantly better on hardware costing half as much- that was my gist. It is a question of the econmomics of that performance.

Obviosuly, if your needs or desires bring you to a specific platform, you play the cards you are dealt.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (1)

blueZhift (652272) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220101)

I hear you on the hassle of upgrading! I think it is great that the Mac is getting some games, but when running on a console is just so easy, it is hard to justify the time and money spent getting set up.

Right now, I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade my box to run Final Fantasy XI online or what and buy the PS2 version bundled with the hard drive for $99 (+ $39 for network adapter + $? for USB keyboard). On the one hand, going with the PS2 version means waiting and the likelihood that no other titles will use the hard drive ever.

On the other hand, upgrading my PC would cost at least $450, but the other programs I run would likely benefit. Still, my PC is just fine for now and the game was made for the PS2, so I'd expect it to play better there... The debate goes on.

It is part of Mac business model (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219182)

It is part of the Mac business model to make it seem like there are actually Mac users.

They have thousands of employees downloading Mac software on p2p to make it look like there is interest.

Apple secretly buys most of those iMacs to inflate sales figures, and they secretly grind them up and use them as freeway asphault in Oakland.

Re:Hundreds of thousands?? (5, Funny)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219207)

It actually breaks down like this:

15,000 people downloading it 5 times each in order to make it seem like there are actually mac gamers out there.
15,000 sympathy downloads from PC users
10,000 people downloading the game accidentally on Kazaa when they clicked the wrong file while trying to download videos of Janet Jackson's breast.

If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (1, Flamebait)

Andy Smith (55346) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218888)

I'd just like to say a hearty F**K YOU to the pirates who are causing more and more of the software I buy to require increasingly awkward and intrusive copy-protection systems.

I have absolutely no ill-feeling towards the developers and publishers who seek to protect their livelihood, but I would very much like to be driving the car that leaves tyre marks on the pirate's flattened corpse.

That is all.

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (1, Insightful)

MrLint (519792) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218952)

Id like to say the same to bungie for selling out, breaking their promise of having mac halo (the original development platform) out 2 years ago. I wont play halo now or ever. if you gave me a copy id burn it and send it back to bungie, postage due.

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (1)

ophix (680455) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219057)

I second this, Halo turned out to be a shadow of what it could have been. I personally have only ever played the xbox version, and that was for about 30 seconds, long enough to make me wonder who in their right mind puts a FPS on a console. I have not and will not pirate this game, I would never spend money on it and i would never recommend that ANYONE even play it. I feel no pity that the evil pirates are copying halo. Bungee sold out the community a long time ago. My advice to them would be to take a line from the Eagles and Get Over It.

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8218967)

Here's a theory: Be evil. There are regular anouncements of remotely exploitable holes in Windows. Code to exploit is frequently available shortly after, even prior to patches. Most gamers use the same crack to make their game playable without a CD key or use a commonly available CD key. As such, one could make a fairly effective warez recognizer. BIOS flashing can be used to create a great annoyance. An enterprising worm writer might put these things together.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (1)

Nivoset (607957) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218971)

i cant say i go without pirating. yes i have, and i probably will. but i do it more to see if a game is worthwhile enough to buy. heck. sometimes ive played pirated versions just to go buy the real one multiple times (UT for example i think ive bough 3 or 4 times)

but i do hate people who just ware and thats it. really. all you are doing is not giving people the money they do deserve for writeing the games you like. and yes we wish they were cheaper, but someone on slashdot (i think, i forgot the link) did make a good point. of how many people work on the games for how long. and that versus the amount they make off of them isn't much. i would write this a bit better if i wasn't falling asleep at the keyboard at work :( oh well

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (1)

Andy Smith (55346) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219039)

Actually I think games are fairly priced. Here in the UK a newly released game is usually available for 30 or 35 at the most. I don't have a problem paying 35 for a game I want to play that 20+ people spent 2+ years developing.

Believe me, I'll be the first to complain very loudly about the price/value disparity of many consumer products, but the price of games is not unreasonable. Remember that the RRP of games is often *double* what they sell for at retail, especially if you buy online.

Note: This post was written with pound signs but Slashdot removes them. Dollar signs are allowed, pound signs aren't. Ah, that warm, fuzzy, global community attitude... another reason why we all love America! :-)

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (1)

Nivoset (607957) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219108)

sorry, that is what i ment. i was trying to say that allot of people think they are overpriced, when i dont really think they are, sur they arn't cheap. but allot of work goes into these. though i will put allot of it into models and engine construction. but blah. what i mean is yes, i pay for games i like, because well. i like them, and i figure if i buy the games i like, they will be (very slightly) more apt to make those ones, as opposed to the cheaply produced garbage games

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219861)

that is what i ment...allot of people think...sur they arn't cheap...what i mean is yes, i pay for games i like

Maybe you should allocate more of your money towards education, and less towards games.

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (5, Insightful)

hibiki_r (649814) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219138)

I, on the other hand, have all kinds of ill feelings towards developers and publishers who are stupid enough to think that piracy will be stopped by adding copy protection.

I've not copied a game since I gor my first full time job a few years ago. However, I've had to visit crack sites time and time again because of the stupid copy protection mechanisms malfunctionin on my perfectly legit copies of the games. I am so tired of ackward copy protection mechanisms that I've almost stopped buying computer games. Now, my console game purchases outnumber my PC game purchases by over 20 to 1. IMO, any company that puts copy protection in front of the user convenience deserves exactly what they are getting: lowers sales, and thus, more pirate copies, probably becasue in many cases the original, uncracked game is inferior to a pirated one you could pick up from kazaa.

Protecting your livelihood by lowering the qaulity of your product and making it less attractive is a recipee for disaster. Just like the RIAA is just shooting themselves in the foot by protecting their business model by copy protecting CDs in an ineffective way that hurts many of their customers, the PC software industry is just asking for decreased sales by releasing the unisable crap they've been releasing lately. Most software developers I know agree that the copy protection mechanism that the publisher adds to their games are just making their games less attractive, and forcing them to make patches that 'fix' broken copy protection mechanisms that make some costumer return their games because they are unplayable on their computer due to an 'incompatible' CDROM drive.

If developers and publishers want to stop piracy, they could start by either releasing their games at a lower price tag, or by going after the groups that are releasing their cracked games to the internet, as opposed to giving money to the makers of copy protection mechanisms.

IP protection == annoy legitimate consumers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219764)

Want people to stop pirating games to run on DaemonTools rather than buying them in a store? Add copy protection that only affects people who bought it in a store!

Want people to stop downloading music instead of buying CDs? Make it difficult for CD purchasers to effectively use their CDs!

Want people to stop pirating movies instead of watching them in the theater? Air anti-piracy ads in the theater!

Re:If I use asterisks, it appears less offensive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8220075)

The way I look at it is what are they asking the average target of videogames to give up. If you figure the average target is a highschool aged kid who probaly works a part-time minimum wage job, you're asking him to give up $50 or $60 in the case of PC games or about $80 in the case of console games. For games that may be infested with bugs, boring as hell, not even work... and no way to return them if they're crap afterall.

If the average highschool kid is working 20 hours a week at $6/hr and manages to make $4 take-home, you're asking for 12 to 20 hours of hard work in return for a game that might totally suck. You're lucky to get 20 hours worth of *gameplay* out of a lot fo these games.

When you break down numbers like that, getting a copy without paying for it starts to become much more appealing.

I have bought perhaps 200 games over the last five years and only played about 10 of them for more than two days. The majority of them sucked or had such huge problems with no patches that I just gave up. But I can't return the 180 or 190 that were crap and that I never played again. So in those cases, I'd say *I* was the one that was ripped off. For each of the games, someone got my $50 before I was able to try and find that the game was total shit. And there is no way to return it...

I have a huge stack of original game cd's (3, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220000)

Can't play a lot of them. Can't find the code anymore. Can play the really old ones like 7th guest (it was on budget) because they didn't bother with copy protection crap.

So fuck to game companies that insist on adding copy protections that only harass the paying public. Why should I pay for a crippled product when I can get the uncrippled version free? OFP is a case in point I own it and all the extensions legally but had to download it because I lost the key. FUCK YOU codemasters.

Next time I will just save myself the bother okay? Don't believe the copy protection is crippled? Look at the size difference between the official game.exe and the nocd.exe.

As for the hardworking developers.

Hidden & Dangerous, are we ever going to get a working patch? Should I just consider downloading the sequel for free as the patch perhaps?

Mafia, what on earth possesed them to take a year to release a patch to fix a lot of issues including in a driving game not supporting logitech force feedback wheels properly.

Keep screwing us with badly tested games and idiotic copy protection and we will revolt.

Imagine if you went into a supermarket and at the checkout they stripsearched everybody. People who just walk out without paying go through unhindered. Idiotic? That is what copy protection is doing. Games are ripped before they are in the shops.

Only mmorpgs seem somewhat safe although there of the more popular ones "illegal" servers where you can play free.

Worse yet are game companies that release a game months later in some parts of the world. I seen games available on the net months before they appear in the shop (no not halflife2). Even the movie industry is learning that staggered releases are a stupid thing. In computer game land it borders on suicide.

I used to buy my games but I have felt increasinly that I was being treated like an idiot and a criminal. Well now I am a criminal. Happy?

Oh and anyone else notice that while CD's are cheaper then floppies and game manuals are a thing of the past and the market for games has increased the price of games has gone up? I also seem to remmeber being able to finish most games without having to patch them. Must be old age messing with my mind.

Oh and for a really old poor copy protection. One of the sequels to elite stopped the game every so often and required you to find a word on a page. The catch? If was a lot easier to use a cheat sheet then to use your manual to find the word. Of course pirates had a hacked exe and were never bothered at all. SMART MOVE.

Bah... (1)

Finque (653377) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218948)

I just don't understand what the big deal with actually purchasing software is. Especially from a company like MacSoft or Bungie.

Sure, some Mac users are probably feeling miffed since Halo was originally planned solely for the Mac, and in the end the Mac was the last to receive it, but c'mon! Halo is an amazing game damnit, and well worth the $50.

Ugh, it just does not make sense to me.

Re:Bah... (2, Insightful)

imr (106517) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218984)

Could the fact that some of the cash would go to microsoft and that they are responsible for some annoyences to the mac community matter (like the whole halo affair you talk about)?
I know that I would never cash not even one dollar for anyone that could give just one percent of it to microsoft, seing how they are ruthless and brutal with my platform (linux). Couldnt the same behavior just have happened with mac users?

Re:Bah... (0)

luigi22_ (733738) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219027)

Exactly. Why pay when part of your money is going to the destruction of your OS? The same thing happened when Office and IE were first announced for the Mac. Eventually, though, you get used to it, hence more people buying Office for the Mac. Good to see the Mac gamer's jihad (no relation to antislash) actually lasting for awhile, instead of just giving in. Don't really know how it'll change things, though.

Re:Bah... (0, Troll)

metamatic (202216) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219388)

Damn right. Screw Microsoft, even if I wanted to play Halo (which I don't without cooperative mode), I wouldn't buy it.

Re:Bah... (3, Insightful)

fupeg (653970) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219675)

Get real. Nobody pirates software (or other media for that matter) because they are trying to make a statement against company/group XYZ -- they do it because they are greedy. Anything else is an absolute lie, it's somebody with a guilty conscience trying to justify their criminal activity. Try to feel noble. You can claim that you're sticking it to Microsoft, but you know that's not the truth.

Re:Bah... (2, Interesting)

BladesP9 (722608) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220229)

I have to admit... I've downloaded a copy of Halo just because I read the performance requirements were SO steep that I didn't want to shell out half-a-hundred bucks just to get a game I couldn't play. I'm glad I did.... My Dual G4/450 with my Radeon 9000 Pro card gets a whopping 8 FPS. How could MacSoft, Westlake or any of those guys make a game that doesn't take advantage of dual processors in dual proc systems? That's complete nonsense to me. No thanks... I'll keep playing it on my Xbox. I deleted it off my mac and tossed the CDR I burned.

If Macsoft had just provided a demo for guys like me to evaluate it on my system, I'd not have had to do that. But they won't produce a demo because they know that 80% of the existing mac market can't play the game worth a damn.

But not all *keep* it... (4, Interesting)

jokell82 (536447) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218956)

I have not downloaded Halo (mostly because there's not a snowballs chance in hell it'll run on my iBook 700), but my friend did. He has a TiBook 1Ghz, and it runs EXTREMELY slow. He had to put it on the lowest resolution possible to even make it playable. But even then the game slows to a halt when there's any kind of action going on... Needless to say he quickly deleted it.

Now come on, this computer is less than a year old and yet it wont play a game that was made a few years ago. I wonder if it'll even run on the latest G4 desktops (I'm sure it flies on the G5). This is pretty unacceptable in my opinion.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people were in the same boat as my friend: pirated it to try it and found out it ran as slow as molasses - then quickly deleted it.

Exactly (4, Interesting)

BoomerSooner (308737) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219026)

I get a pirated copy of every game first (with the exception of Bioware titles). There is no way in hell I'm buying a $50 game that won't run and cannot be returned. I'll waste the $0.25 on a blank and then see if it's worth buying.

Maybe if MacSoft worked closer with the development studios to get the titles out within a month or so of the PC release they'd sell more. When you have to wait 1-2 years for a game that is in the PC bargin bin for $9.99, most people will just pirate it since the perceived value isn't there.

For example, Neverwinter Nights. It was supposedly getting released for Linux, PC and Mac in the same packaging at the same time. Reality: 1+ years later, no expansion packs and it doesn't have the Aurora Toolkit and it's $50. The PC version is $30 with the first expansion (gold version) and toolkit included.

If you want to play games get a PC. Until Mac releases are timely I won't buy any.

Re:Exactly (1)

aldoman (670791) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219559)

Absolutley.

MacSoft is the worst company for making sloppy ports, that are very late. Take for example Age of Mythology. Came out in mid-Nov for Mac, and about 18 months ago for PC.

The mac version is so sloppy. It refers to 'The Windows Control panel'. It can't play with PC clients on multiplayer and generally it sucks.

Thank god for downloading games - if I had spent $50 on that peice of crap I would be serverly annoyed.

So... Shareware? (3, Interesting)

Hollinger (16202) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219110)

So the appropriate answer to Mac Halo's problems is a free and open beta test and/or "shareware" release, ala Doom, Quake, etc. Give people the engine and a couple of levels, and maybe multiplayer play and see what happens?

Now that I think about it, I wonder if id [idsoftware.com] will do that for Doom III [doom3.com] .

<MINIRANT>
Also, I wouldn't have expected any laptop made a year ago to support games released recently. That's the nature of the machine, unfortunately, as far as laptops go, unless they're one of those hacked-together beasts [sagernotebook.com] that use desktop components [sagernotebook.com] .
</MINIRANT>

Re:But not all *keep* it... (4, Informative)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219118)

> Now come on, this computer is less than a year old
> and yet it wont play a game that was made a few
> years ago.

But it wasn't made a few years ago. Sure, it released on the xbox a ways back, but as far as your mac is concerned it's a brand new cutting edge game.

It has rendering features that prior to the mac/pc release, did not exist in any other game. It uses features that Doom3 and HL2 are heavily reliant on.. neither of which you can buy yet.

That's not to say there aren't some speed issues, the next update of PC Halo promises some real advances in efficiency. But mac/pc Halo is only an "old" game by virtue of it's artistic content.

Re:But not all *keep* it... (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219434)

so what you're saying is that it's ok that it's slow because it uses new rendering techniques... ...but that it still looks like it's from few years back?

where does that leave the rendering techniques? usually you use new rendering techniques to get it to look better OR to run faster.

Re:But not all *keep* it... (1)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219539)

Dunno if we're playing the same Halo or this isn't what you were suggesting, but the Halo engine doesn't look a "few years old" to me at all.

At least in my case, Halo has only run slow due to poor hardware or bad drivers. These days (due soley to buying a dx9 capable card) I can run the game today with all options revved to max, albeit at an 800x600 resolution. The game looks stunning. Metal surfaces shimmer, headlights paint bump-mapped patches on walls they pass over, tank rounds spew dirt into the air, and sunlight glimmers through the tree leaves.

This stuff hasn't been done before, has it? Halo is cutting edge stuff. There are ALWAYS people who have problems with the latest and greatest, because their computer isn't.

Granted I'm speaking from a PC user viewpoint so I'll admit there's probably problems with the Mac release that I'm entirely ignorant of. But the engine itself is not "3 years old" like some prefer to claim.

It is 1 month old. ;')

Re:But not all *keep* it... (1)

Popsikle (661384) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219597)

Yes. All that HAS been done before. And as a Hardcore gamer, HALO runs waaaaay to slow on PC/MAC to be enjoyable. Then engine is slow, the gameplay is slow, everything is slow.

Re:But not all *keep* it... (1)

ealar dlanvuli (523604) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219298)

I have a 2.4ghz p4 with 1g ram and a ati radeon 90000.

It runs dog slow on my machine as well.

The game just sucks, get over it.

Re:But not all *keep* it... (1)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219628)

Yeah but what kind of graphics card those laptops have? I don't think it is anything close to radeon 9500/600. Because I have a PIII 900 with S3 Savage or something. Of course it doesn't run halo (ok, I didn't try but thats obvious), it doesn't even run UT fast enough, only in 640x480 is the framerate above 30. So the point is that most notebooks aren't made to play games.

Re:But not all *keep* it... (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220300)

Halo chokes a little on a Dual 2.0Ghz G5 when there's a lot going on, but I ramped up all the settings to maximum.

Otherwise it plays fine.

I couldn't determine whether the slight lag on the assault rifle's tracking was a feature of the game or performance issue. It could just be because it's a crap weapon at range compared to the plasma rifle.

Quake III plays very well on the G5 though, which is to be expected, as does Elite Force II. I've been looking for Elite Force 1, but haven't been able ti find it in any bargain bins. I think Amazon has a copy, but last time I looked it was just a second hand copy, which I was reluctant to purchase at the time.

bungie = sellouts. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8218960)

rightly or wrongly, that's the sentiment in much of the mac community.

Re:bungie = sellouts. (2, Funny)

beerman2k (521609) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219005)

Hey, Chef, what's a sellout?

Well, kids, that's when some in the [software] business tries to make money.

Re:bungie = sellouts. (1)

Lemental (719730) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219718)

You're gonna go to the software store
You're gonna give em all your money
MacIntosh plays what they want you to play
I just cant believe it

Sell out
With me oh yeah
Sell out
With me alright

Software company gonna make me lots a money
and everythings gonna be alright.

People pirate because they can (2, Insightful)

baywulf (214371) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218983)

If you could copy computer hardware for free then that would happen also. That is why these people pay a ton of money for the hardware and then pirate the software.

Release more hybrid games (4, Interesting)

Drakino (10965) | more than 10 years ago | (#8218988)

I have to admit I will never buy Halo on the Mac. Why? Well, I own it on the PC already. My Wintendo will always be my main computer box, since it does games better then my Powerbook. But, I personally enjoy a game of Warcraft 3 every once in a while on the road, so I pop in the same copy of the game I only had to buy once to play it on either my Powerbook or Wintendo desktop.

Use this same argument for Linux too. Many gamers see no reason to buy a Linux only version of a game over a Windows version. But a ton enjoy the fact that the Windows Quake disk also allows Linux play.

Macsoft also has the problem of not ensuring they keep up with patches. By what I understand, no Mac user could play online with a PC user for a while after release. Thats a bad thing for sure.

Re:Release more hybrid games (1)

beerman2k (521609) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219020)

Wow.
Thanks to you we can be assured that game developers will continue to develop for only a single platform.

Re:Release more hybrid games (5, Insightful)

Drakino (10965) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219206)

Thanks to you we can be assured that game developers will continue to develop for only a single platform.
Thats the problem, most game developers only develop for one platform. Halo so far has 3 development houses behind it. Bungie for the XBox, Gearbox for Windows, and MacSoft for Mac.

Blizzard and id on the otherhand use *gasp* industry standard programming methods and thus have a much easier time getting the game out for both platforms. id even does 3 PC platforms, and console platforms. Epic is also now doing this, ensuring their engine is as cross platform as possible to help more games run on everything. These companies to me are much more deserving of my money. I appreciate the porting houses, but would rather see them break up, and get their programmers hired on at the big publishers to ensure more games come in one box, not two for a computer.

Yes, I'd rather support the guys going after industray standards. If they don't, well, sorry, I'm not paying $100 to play most games.

Isn't it public domain now?? (4, Funny)

tprime (673835) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219003)

After all of these years, isn't Halo for the Mac public domain now? :-)

College CD sharing? (3, Insightful)

Tuxinatorium (463682) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219023)

There's another type of very very widespread copyright infringement that takes place entirely offline. As soon as 1 person in the dormitory gets the halo CD or what have you, they share it with everyone else on their floor and set up huge lan games.. all from 1 CD. I estimate about 10 people on my floor got Call of Duty from 1 guy's CD and we can all play multiplayer online at the same time :)

Out of sight, out of mind (2, Insightful)

gearheadsmp (569823) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219341)

Before peer to peer, the content owner's couldn't estimate for sure the amount of offline piracy. And they still can't, because the only surveys they get are from online piracy. In fact, the RIAA didn't begin their Great Crusade against their customers until Napster came along. Out of sight, out of mind.

Screw You Bungie (4, Insightful)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219037)

Bungie was the Great Hero of Mac gaming with titles like Myth and Marathon. Fabulous games that didn't require a supercomputer to get interesting graphics and great game play. Scenario editors that spawned communities.

Steve Jobs was using Halo to demonstrate 400 MHz G4 Power Macs. Halo was being voted the Game of the Year before release. We were going to have it for Christmas 1998.

What did we get? Shafted. Bungie Sold Out to the Great Satan. Sure, when the sellout occurred there were still promises that Bungie would release for the Mac at the same time as the XBox. Never Happened. When Halo finally became available what did we get? Bug ridden trash with insane hardware demands and a non-functional scenario editor. Myth sold off, and the result - a well documented failure.

If Mac Halo is being pirated in great numbers as a result, I don't have a lot of sympathy for Bungie/Microsoft. They broke faith with their users.

I hate to be the one to break it to you (5, Funny)

superultra (670002) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219497)

If Mac Halo is being pirated in great numbers as a result, I don't have a lot of sympathy for Bungie/Microsoft. They broke faith with their users.

"Look, um, Macuser. I know what you and Bungie had was something special. But I think, and don't hate me for saying this, I think you just need to move on, you know. That something special. . .well, it was special for that moment. I mean calling Bungie's new girlfriend the Great Satan; that's just too far. Microsoft's not too bad of a girl, once you get to know her. I know it hurt deeply when it happened, and Bungie probably used the whole let's be friends line. But just because Bungie decided to just be friends and are hanging out all the time with Microsoft now doesn't mean that you can sneak into Bungie's house and take all his stuff. That's just too far, you know? Honestly, Macuser, I'm surprised that Bungie hasn't applied for a restraining order. Don't get me wrong, you're really good looking, I'd even say you're pretty hot. You've really got some curves on you, that's for sure. This breaking into the house thing though and taking their stuff, that's just...strange. I mean stuff like this, it's just...freaky is all. I think everyone's been trying to be real nice to you, but someone should tell you straight up. Sometimes you can act a little weird, you know? Just...off, a little. Maybe that's why Bungie left you in the first place? And you've still got Blizzard right? He's cool, right?

Just trying to talk, ok, sort things out with you? Call me later?"

Re:Screw You Bungie (1)

mixy1plik (113553) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219790)

I have to say as a Marathon-addict in recovery, I could give a shit about Bungie anymore.


Let me also say, I don't think piracy is right. Any game I play on my (as another /.'er put it) Wintendo I have dropped $50 on.



Bungie has alienated their Mac user/fan base. They went where the money was and as a result left us bastard step-children Mac users behind. Hey, that's their choice. I think there is definitely some validity to the comment that people download and try it on their machines and when they discover it runs like total crap they delete it. Most people don't own a G5 and it sounds like a new machine or $400 video card is what you need.



Sorry Bungie, you're done. Sorry Macplay, you've been caught in the crossfire.

Re:Screw You Bungie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8220052)

So, it's Bungie's fault that Apple has been selling grossly underspeced machines for the last 3 years?

Face it, if you want to play the PC State of the Art, you *need* a G5.

PS: Go find the original MacWorld Halo video and tell us that would run on a 400Mhz G4 / RagePro with a straight face.

Re:Screw You Bungie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8220374)

Not a problem.
The origianl MacWorld Halo was entirely OpenGL optimized.

The one out now is ENTIRELY DirectX dependent, and I'd be willing to be decent money that this was not even a port, but more likely Microsoft fed the code through the VirtualPC engine and packaged the output as a new application.

IMHO (0)

linuxdawg (730659) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219051)

Shit, If my Stuff were pirated I feel on to of the world. Yeah, I get no cash for my work but hey that just means my stuff is worth stealing.....

Cry me a river (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219088)

It was a dagger in the hearts of guys who worked 12 to 14 hours a day [on Halo]...

The guys who are PLAYING it 12 to 14 hours a day certainly aren't expecting to be paid!

all right... (4, Insightful)

EvanTaylor (532101) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219100)

So, it is alright for a company to abandon their users and sell out to MS.

It is alright for their premiere platform to be the last one they port it to, years later.

It is alright for them to make the buyers unable to play with their PC friends who got the game years earlier.

It is alright for the game to run like complete ass showing it was quick port.

Is that all right?

Re:all right... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219237)


Yup, that's all fine.

They can do whatever they want (legally) to to make a profit. If you don't like it, shop elsewhere you whining bey-atch.

Is that clear enough for you?

Should I spell it out ALL IN CAPS until you get the message?

Thanks for listening, and goodbye.

Re:all right... (1)

Duty (731705) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219705)

Their PC friends got the game years earlier? News to me. Did you mean XBox?

Re:all right... (1)

zim2411 (700459) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220092)

It is alright for them to make the buyers unable to play with their PC friends who got the game years earlier.

Halo for PC came out only a month or two before the Mac version. Also, I have played online games with people who have the mac version of Halo. I have NO IDEA where your claims are coming from.

"MacSoft spokesman" (Skore: +5 Interesting) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219117)

is on teh spoke!!1~~ lollllzzz~~~

where do the figures come from? (4, Interesting)

unixbob (523657) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219184)

How have these guys measured this? downlading stuff off bit torrent you rarely get more than 20 seeds. How many files have you grabbed from kazaa that have more than 10 other clients they are downloading from? Seeing as there are loads of p2p networks, how have Macsoft come to the conculustion that "hundreds of thousands" of illegal downloads have occurred.

lots of comments here mention how the Mac version is buggy, slow and people resent buying the game after bungie sold out to Microsoft. Perhaps (in true RIAA style), Macsoft are blaming poor sales on p2p networks as opposed to poor product.

Re:where do the figures come from? (2, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219384)

they're going for the sympathy factor..

besides than that if they were real professional geeks this really shouldn't surprise them at all, and know that if the game is copied around that really doesn't necessarely mean that people would actually pay you hard cash for it, people are willing to try crap for free but rarely to pay for it.

porno is a prime example, there's shitloads of people copying it but would they buy even 1/10th of the amount they're copying if they couldn't copy it? (applies to mp3's as well)

maybe macsofts real problem indeed is that they have a 'small' market that got the game marketed to them 2-4years ago and now when it's ready it's getting crap on it for being buggy. It's like nintendo trying to sell a buggy port of Mario 64 to gamecube for fucks sake.

Re:where do the figures come from? (1)

Mike Hawk (687615) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219717)

With multiplayer software (as opposed to music or video) its easy to tell how many copies are in the wild. Just see how many people are playing online with each version. Any server browsing software can do this.

I'd imagine its easy to notice if the number of people playing online is much greater than the number of copies sold. This isn't rocket science people.

halo is not worth a cent (1)

m05 (690031) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219278)

halo is so overrated. its just a boring game beneath others. it took years to 'port' it to mac where it should be developed. just because microsoft wanted to push they console.

first it should be revolutionary. but bungie just released mainstream.

the fact is that there are too much too bad and too expensive games to spend money on. thats the reason for piracy.

Hold your horses (4, Insightful)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219323)

And if these people had not pirated the game, how many of them would have bought copies? Only I small percentage, I'll bet. So how much money was lost due to piracy is an open question. In fact, how many copies of Halo will be sold due to this piracy (which is advertising, if unintentional)? Perhaps this will eventually be money in the pocket of developers rather than a dagger in the heart. There is no way to tell without hard numbers, and those are probably unknowable.

The real dagger in the heart... (3, Insightful)

BW_Nuprin (633386) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219331)

...is when no one bothers to even pirate your game. I worked on a little game for Gameboy Advance called Monster Force for a little more than a year. While the game itself is fun, the story behind it is so lame and unmarketable that no one ever touched it. I think the publishers just kinda DOA'd it. I know it made it to stores, but I've never seen it. I would LOVE to hear that it was the golden child of the ROM scene. All I want is for people to enjoy my games.

Re:The real dagger in the heart... (1)

nicksthings (678040) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219843)

Monster Force ruled! Haha. Reminded me a lot of Zombies Ate My Neighbors. And yeah, I haven't seen a new copy in any store, but we did get a used copy at my store and it's just been sitting there. Very lonely. I'll push it for you, because it really was a neat little game.

Plus, monsters rule.

Re:The real dagger in the heart... (1)

BW_Nuprin (633386) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220313)

Thank you! Wow, I feel great knowing someone actually played MoFo, as we called it! You just made my day :)

Re:The real dagger in the heart... (1)

HomerJ (11142) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220094)

now that Monster Force is over, does this mean that work on Talisman will continue once again?

Re:The real dagger in the heart... (1)

BW_Nuprin (633386) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220340)

Hahaha! You should see the Gamecube version I was working on before I got a job doing cell phone games! But for now, no :P Project Talisman continues to be legendary homebrew vaporware :)

However (2, Interesting)

Bagels (676159) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219344)

its seems possible that at least one member of the Halo team, or someone close to them, is actually celebrating this - because somebody with access to the PC version pirated it and put it on the web something like nine days before the official release.

Re:However (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219502)

there was a press release leaked to the net (with like 5 levels) about a month(?) or so before the actual release.

it was buggy though.

but the real killer was that most of the bugs were in the shelf version too! BAD BAD BAD BAD!

Bad blood (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219537)

I wonder if the reluctance of Mac users to hand over cash for Halo has anything to do with not wanting to line Microsoft's pockets?

What it should have been (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219575)

Halo is very different from what it was first supposed to be: a third-person action game (a la Syphon Filter for the Playstation). Maybe it would have been more successful among computer gamers if it were something different, not simply another FPS among tons of them?

Re:What it should have been (1)

CashCarSTAR (548853) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219751)

Actually what it was supposed to be was a third-person combat/strategy type multi-player based game, a la Natural Selection.

Something that would have been ground-breaking. Instead, what was released for the X-Box was a well made, but very conventional shooter. The PC/MAC versions WOULD be better, with Internet play built in, but are buggy as shit.

MacSoft should have ported a better game than Halo. That's their problem.

The real problem (5, Insightful)

nacturation (646836) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219587)

Where is the demo? I go to Macsoft's Halo page [macsoftgames.com] and see a nice collection of screenshots, but is there a downloadable demo? Perhaps that link to "Preview" is it. Nope, that just goes to a review article on Apple's site [apple.com] . Well, maybe they're just really trying to sell it. Maybe it's really under the Game Demos & Updates [apple.com] page. Sorry, not there either.

The real reason why people are downloading the pirate version is because that's all that's available for them to download if they want to try it out on their system. And let's face it -- this isn't the early 1990's anymore where you have to trust some biased Mac magazine who gives a favorable review because Macsoft spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on a multi-page ad campaign. Everyone checks the review sites to see how it fares instead of just rushing out to buy it. And guess what... they're finding out it's junk.

Macsoft, some of your products are great (Neverwinter!!) but you're not going to sell a whole lot of games with your "Trust Us" approach. Put out a demo and let people give it a spin. If it's good, there's a good chance they'll buy it. If they don't buy it after trying it out, then it's your own damned fault for putting out such a lousy product. But don't blame the p2p networks for spoiling sales of the stinker called Halo.

Meh. (2, Insightful)

fondue (244902) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219679)

I'd probably have more sympathy for Bungie if the Mac and PC ports of Halo weren't so hopelessly late and sloppily ported.

Still, they can surely find some comfort in the fact that the Xbox version is, absurdly, still selling at full price.

They're really in no position to whine about anything.

Yellow journalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219715)

This article has so many things wrong that it would be more efficient to list what they got right, than what they did wrong.

Unless MacSoft knows how many pirates would have purchased the retail version were the pirated one not available, any losses claimed are necessarily nebulous.

Oh, and... "Computer-game piracy has lagged behind music piracy" - that's worth a belly laugh.

Did anyone ever think... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8219805)

Did anyone ever think the Mac Halo was pirated so much because Mac owners were broke after buying a system that can actually play it?

Random Comments (2, Insightful)

polyp2000 (444682) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219808)

Naturally it is sad to see this happen. Many people on this forum will remember what happened to Amiga due to (amongst other things) how rife piracy was. I remember having boxes and boxes of floppies containing cracked games. Having experienced that, I am now much more careful about stuff like that.

I use Linux for my desktop, most of my software is legit, i.e. free as in gpl'd beer. All my PS2 console games are payed for and lovingly arranged on the shelf.

Mac people pirating games are harming the future of games on their platform. Windows is the dominant PC gaming operating system, its been like that for years. Windows warez junkies are all over the place, but software houses can still make money due to sheer market penetration and online gaming.

Bottom line, if you love your Mac and want to see it grow as a gaming platform. Support it or watch it die.

Re:Random Comments (2, Insightful)

MalleusEBHC (597600) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219978)

Mac people pirating games are harming the future of games on their platform. Windows is the dominant PC gaming operating system, its been like that for years. Windows warez junkies are all over the place, but software houses can still make money due to sheer market penetration and online gaming.

Bottom line, if you love your Mac and want to see it grow as a gaming platform. Support it or watch it die.


I don't think you should view this as typical of the Mac gaming community. There are a multitude of factors that make Halo perhaps the most likely Mac game in recent history to be pirated. First, many Mac users are still miffed about how Halo went from a Mac debut to being the flagship product for Redmond's console. I'm not justifying it. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that the feeling exists. Second, many reviews have been coming back about this being an atrocious port of Halo. Poor graphics performance, laggy multiplayer games, the whole nine yards. The Mac community has seen its share of shitty ports, so I think many people were leery of shelling out the $50 for the game before giving it a try. Not offering a demo was a huge mistake on Macsoft's part in my opinion. Third, it's an old game. I've played the XBox version a couple times, and it never struck me as anything special. It just seems like any other FPS. For an FPS to succeed in the smaller Mac gaming community, it has to have something new to offer.

This isn't to say that Halo is the only game for Mac that gets pirated. As someone who buys all their games, it pisses me off to see people pirating games that I like as it discourages developers from making further ports and encourages them to put inconvenient copy protection on their games.

Macsoft did a terrible porting job (3, Interesting)

DavidLeblond (267211) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219817)

The game runs like hell and half of the features don't even work. The gamepad support is "coming", the multiplayer crashes my machine and the game with all the details turned down at 640x480 resolution runs on my 933MHz iBook like I'd expect Half-Life 2 to run on a 286 with all the features turned on.

I've played better looking games on my iBook that ran a lot smoother. If the game started out on a Mac, why did macsoft have to port it anyway?

Re:Macsoft did a terrible porting job (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8220204)

It's a 933MHz Ibook. What the hell did you expect?

Hell, I pirated it, and I'm glad I did (2, Flamebait)

legLess (127550) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219870)

A friend of mine gave me a Halo CD with a CD key good enough to play locally but not online. I said "thanks" and got down to playing. I finished the game in about 5 days of long sessions, and here's my review:

Halo on the Mac sucks slimy donkey balls.

I kept hoping that it would get better, but it got worse and worse until finally it was torture. I finished because I'm anal-retentive that way: I hate to leave things unfinished.

Please note that I'm not trying to defend or condone software copyright violations. I understand that people sweat blood to get games out the door. But I'll save my conclusions for the end.

Also, before you write me off as same effete Mac poser, note that this is my first Mac; I got it three months ago. I've used Debian for years, and still run it as a workstation and server. I got the Mac so I could run all the Unix tools and servers I need, run Vim from Bash, and use Photoshop -- all in the same OS (as long as that OS isn't Windows, which I despise, and not for political or ideological reasons).

Here's what sucked the most:

Gameplay sucked.
Much of this game was like punishment from God. I've played FPS games since Wolfenstein, and I've never played anything that sucked like this (although I never played Daikatana ;). There were several times during Halo that I thought I had fucked up somehow and gone back on my old steps. I kept running into the same environments, over and over and over again. One particular room I ran through about 40 times: literally the identical map, just new monsters. I swear, they mapped about 1/8 of the game, then just pasted the same damn rooms in for the rest of it when they ran out of time.
Monsters sucked.
I'm sorry, did I just write "new monsters?" There aren't any. There are big, fast bad-ass brute-type creatures, exactly like the ones in Unreal (don't remember what they were called). There are little things that run after you and jump and explode, shockingly similar to the annoying little fuckers in Half-Life. There are zombie humans you've had their heads eaten by head-crab-like monsters, and they shamble after you and try to hit you (again just like HL). Monster variety was lower than Doom.
Performance sucked.
I have a brand new 15" G4 Aluminum Power Book, and I had to run at 800x600 with all the graphics options turned off just to get a playable frame rate. This is the higher-end PB: 1.25GHz; 512Mb RAM and a Radeon 9600. The graphics were really pretty, just ass-slow. I got killed a few times watching a pretty slideshow, then turned all the options off.

After I finished it, my friend called and asked me what I thought. He said he wasn't very far into it, but had heard good things about the multiplayer. He said we should perhaps buy copies of the game so we could play it online. I told him not to bother.

Moral of the story: if it hadn't sucked, I would have bought two copies. I didn't go searching for a warez version and am frankly sorry that I wasted my time on it.

Re:Hell, I pirated it, and I'm glad I did (1)

Jarlsberg (643324) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220227)

A friend of mine gave me a Halo CD with a CD key good enough to play locally but not online. I said "thanks" and got down to playing. I finished the game in about 5 days of long sessions, and here's my review:

Halo on the Mac sucks slimy donkey balls.
...
Moral of the story: if it hadn't sucked, I would have bought two copies.

Yet you did play it for several hours over the course of five days. Come on.

Re:Hell, I pirated it, and I'm glad I did (1)

DaveCBio (659840) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220274)

If you think the SP game in Wolfenstein was better than Halo then I'd have to say thatyour perspective is pretty skewed. Wolf got so boring and repetitive near the end I just cheated my way through it.

Re:Hell, I pirated it, and I'm glad I did (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220322)


I had the same laptop but with a GB of RAM, it ran fine at the highest res but with medium details on everything. Finished it after like 4 days then put it on ebay. yes it was boring but some lucky bugger didn't have to pay as much as me to find that out.
So far i've played 2 games on the mac, that one above and WC3. So far i'm not impressed with mac games and I'm certainly not impressed with the PB i HAD, i sold it and got an emac, something i should of got in the first place, or kept the iBook i sold to get the PowerBook.

Developer's Perspective (5, Interesting)

MiceHead (723398) | more than 10 years ago | (#8219888)

From the perspective of someone who creates and sells small games for a living, I'd pooh-pooh most arguments legitimizing the act of piracy.

1. If the game "isn't worth buying," don't pirate it, spend 30 hours playing through the whole thing, and claim that you "wouldn't have bought it, anyway."

2. If you want to try the game out before buying, don't pirate it; play the demo.

3. If there's no demo, and you don't trust the developer enough to buy the game, sight-unseen, don't buy it. The developer doesn't deserve your money, but neither do you deserve to own a copy of their game.

4. Copy protection schemes that prevent you from playing the game you paid for are inexcusable. If the copy protection detracts from the game, tell the developer why you're not going to buy from them again. Don't pirate the game; piracy will only make future copy protection schemes worse for legitimate users.

Recently, a young man from the UK e-mailed us, requesting a free copy of one of our games, citing that he could not possibly buy it. Later, he e-mailed us asking for tech support on the full version. Is this audacious, or simply stupid?

Re:Developer's Perspective (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8220276)

Well said, I am sick of thieves trying to justify their criminal behaviour. If you feel badly about something (no demo, poor performance, lack of features, blah blah). DON'T BUY IT AND DON'T PLAY IT!!!!!

If there is no demo and you have to buy it to see what it is like, then the answer is simplicity itself. TAKE IT BACK TO THE SHOP and get all your precious money back.

I'm so sick of listening to whining thieves, the only reason they are so vocal is because deep down they know. Their mummies and daddies told them time and time again DON'T STEAL!!! So their unconcious guilt forces them to speak out in an effort to try and justify their criminal actions.

Bottom line: you should be ashamed of yourselves, you are thieves, plain and simple.

If you need to test it out for whatever reason:
1. download the demo and then just leave it if you don't want it.
2. if there is no demo, then buy it. Check with the shop that you can take it back, 90% of them will let you.

Demos & Distribution (2, Insightful)

fuzzhead (750413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220083)

Here's a quick story:

Friend #1: Has a high-end Mac G5. Downloaded Halo and used it until his copy arrived.

Friend #2: Downloaded the game. Tried it out on his current older machine. Ordered a new iBook. Bought Halo.

Myself: Downloaded the game. Tried it out on my Powerbook 667 (under min spec). Played for a night. Didn't have money for a new machine nor wanted to spend the time playing. Deleted it.

So, there you go. Three of the "hundreds of thousands" of pirated copies would have been prevented by supplying a demo or providing alternate software distribution schemes.

How hard is it to sell a serial number online and follow it up with box & CD later in the mail?

-fuzzhead

Re:Demos & Distribution (1)

DaveCBio (659840) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220242)

This assumes you have the right to pirate because there is no demo. For every person that downloaded it and deleted it, there are a good number that didn't and will never buy it.

Re:Demos & Distribution (1)

fuzzhead (750413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220352)

Very true. Based on my limited data, however, MacSoft would be *incredibly* happy if two out of three piraters bought the game.

My original point was that without a demo or alternate download scheme for the full copy, a hundred thousand pirated copies has little meaning because many of those people may have bought the game!

-fuzzhead

Give Bungie A Little Credit (4, Insightful)

blueZhift (652272) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220278)

Bugs and delays aside, let's give Bungie a little credit. Afterall, when Microsoft bought them and announced Halo for XBox, I was sure that PC or Mac Halo would never see the light of day. And I'm sure that the suits were all against anything but an XBox only title. Doing it on Mac and PC simply doesn't make economic sense given the numbers they have sold on the XBox. With that in mind, the only reason Bungie would release Mac and PC versions would be to keep their word to their customers. That's an honorable thing in these days of the bottom line rules everything.

Unfortunately this piracy problem is a double edged knife in the back. Bungie developers are rightly pissed off, and now the suits will make sure that Halo 2 never sees anything but the XBox. Any experienced developer will tell you that supporting more than one platform is a lot of work which publishers are less and less willing to pay for. So we won't be seeing any more multiplatform Halo.

What was promised vs. what was delivered... (-1, Troll)

SvnLyrBrto (62138) | more than 10 years ago | (#8220372)

If Halo was still being prodeced by an independent Bungie, and actually included all of the features we were promised at MacWorld, way back when; *I* would happily plonk down the $50 for it.

Instead, we get a Halo that is produced by microsoft, to whom bungiee whored themselves out. We get a halo that is a crappy port of a console game. We get a Halo that has been gutted of almost all of the features that would have made it uber-cool must-have. We get a Halo that has been turned into just another mediocre FPS.

No way in HELL I'd pay even a penny for the damn thing. Of course, I don't even consider it worth the waste of bandwidth to download either. But if I DID want to play a half-assed imitation of Halo, I would have no moral qualms about DLing the thing.

NOTE TO GAME DEVELOPERS:
Keep faith with your customers, keep the promises you make; and people will happily buy your products. Betray us, break your promises; and you piss people off and lose customers. Maybe it's not taught in business 101, but it's sure taught in human nature 101. See also: the other poster's remarks about what was promised vs. what was delivered WRT/ the Mac (and linux) version of Neverwinter Nights.

cya,
john

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