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GameCube's Timeline, Accomplishments Charted

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the parent-teacher-evening dept.

GameCube (Games) 154

Thanks to GameSpy for its article charting the progress of Nintendo's GameCube console from launch to the present day, as part of an ongoing series that has also included the Xbox. The piece starts with the bold statement: "Despite being the wrong product at the wrong time, Nintendo's durable GameCube game console has demonstrated lasting power in a market for which it was not well targeted", and ends by noting: "GameCube will certainly end this generation in second place internationally -- the virtual shutout that Xbox received in Japan settles that part of the race, and it may yet challenge Microsoft in the U.S. and European markets." What's your view of the success of the GameCube and its software titles in the current console generation?

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154 comments

Japanese Accomplishment= (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313563)

Building giant schoolgirls to rape battle robots while playing weird dancing games

always has and always will... (-1, Troll)

DeadboltX (751907) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313567)

gamecube sucks no matter which way you cut it

Re:always has and always will... (4, Insightful)

mausmalone (594185) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313585)

Yeah, like all other Nintendo consoles it "sucks" so hard that people buy it, play it, and ask for more.

If it's not your cup of tea, just say that... obviously it doesn't suck if a lot of other people enjoy it.

Re:always has and always will... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313919)

Let us now set this phrase in stone so that others may look upon it and witness a truth that we've been too ignorant to see: Nintendo GameCube sucks!

I don't know what i'd do without people like DeadboltX to tell me what does and does not suck.
Thank you so much DeadboltX!

Re:always has and always will... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313956)

DeadboltX justifies his non-GC purchase at /. and suffoctes on his own dick afterwards.

Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (5, Insightful)

reiggin (646111) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313573)

Nintendo plays it safe for the most part. The GameCube continues a long tradition of building a good, reliable console that plays games. Plain and simple. And the games aren't bad. I enjoy mine. Metroid Prime rules, Wind Waker is highly enjoyable, and Viewtiful Joe is amazing. What's not to love? I think the pros heavily outweigh the cons. There's just too much focus from game critics on the marketshare. What does marketshare matter when your games are good, sales are good (doens't have to be the #1 seller to remain profitable), and you keep rolling out original titles (Crystal Chronicles as the most recent example). I think Nintendo is here to stay for quite some time. They definitely have not made the mistakes Sega made. They still have good brand-indentity.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (0)

ottawanker (597020) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314261)

Nintendo plays it safe for the most part. The GameCube continues a long tradition of building a good, reliable console that plays games. Plain and simple.

I agree here. I wouldn't buy a GameCube as a primary console, but if I had children under 12 or 14 who were into gaming, the GameCube would probably be my choice. Many GC games are educational, non-violent, entertaining, and look good.

Also, it's way cheaper than any of the other systems.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (0, Flamebait)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314706)

I wouldn't buy a GameCube as a primary console, but if I had children under 12 or 14 who were into gaming, the GameCube would probably be my choice. Many GC games are educational, non-violent, entertaining, and look good.

That's one of the reasons a GameCube would be the last console I would think about buying. It's got too much of a stigma for being a child's console system. Who am I kidding though, I'm such a dork that I'm 28 and still playing video games. I should be going to art festivals or theater or the orchestra. I can't imagine being 30 years old and still playing video games... you're practically middle-aged.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8314915)

That's one of the reasons a GameCube would be the last console I would think about buying. It's got too much of a stigma for being a child's console system. Who am I kidding though, I'm such a dork that I'm 28 and still playing video games. I should be going to art festivals or theater or the orchestra. I can't imagine being 30 years old and still playing video games... you're practically middle-aged.

I can't imagine being 28 and worried about what others think of my "child's console". Hell, I stopped worrying about the opinions of others when I got out of High School.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (4, Interesting)

Tjebbe (36955) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314262)

I totally agree, the only problem with a smaller marketshare is that it's much harder to find shops that sell the games you're looking for. I have got all the 'big' titles (zelda, f-zero, metroid etc) but some of the lesser known titles are extremely hard to find around here. I had to look for weeks to find a copy of Skies of Arcadia (hehe, a port). I am still looking for Ikagura, and even Viewtiful Joe is hardly to be found in shops. Nonetheless, the games i do have are among the best there are, and when we come together with friends (who also have the pther consoles) to play games, we almost always play on the gamecube.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (1)

Ambiguous Coward (205751) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314373)

Are you kidding? About being able to find games, I mean. Maybe it's just my location...I've actually found that Fred Meyers, of all places, has some of the best games selection for *any* console. Try it: head down to your local everything-store, be it Fred Meyers or whatever...check out the electronics department. Although, I think Fred Meyers is just a northwest thing...I wouldn't know. But yeah, Fred's has all those games and more, and they *always* have at least a dozen copies of each. Woo! Gamestop sucks. :P

-Munki

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (1)

Tjebbe (36955) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314441)

Out everything-stores do sell games for every platform, but not really that much (i guess about 20-25 different titles for the gamecube at the moment). Also, they are either the really big titles (of which they then have about 20 copies) or the most crappy games you can imagine, not the 'simply-good' ones. Or maybe my taste is just terrible :)

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (1)

nocomment (239368) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316962)

Agreed, if you have a Fred Meyer(no "s") in your area, go check it out. They had DESA (Disney Extreme Skating) for gamecube, when Wal-Mart said it wasn't getting released for another week.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (4, Insightful)

nocomment (239368) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316917)

I think that's one of Nintendo's sucesses. Something that really only Sega has managed to do in the past. ie. Games based on a storyline that have familiar characters. I got a gamecube for x-mas (I think my wife is happy I'm gonna stop writing code and acting more like a human ;-). I was lucky enough to get the zelda edition. It brought back all of the same emotions and excitement that I had back in '86, '86(??) when I played the original NES. I played link and beat ganon, I played mario and rescued the princess (later super mario 2), I played metroid, and now almost 20 years later, I'm playing them all again, but fantastically re-done. I've already bought windwaker because I've beat ocarina of time, I'm planning on getting mario kart, matroid, and viewtiful joe. My kids always ask if they can watch me play zelda. It's too hard for them so they like to just sit and watch. I dunno what I'm gonna do when wind waker is over :-(

It is weird though, in the late 80's nintendo vs sega was almost a religious war, and now to see sonic for gamecube...I'm confused by that.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (2, Interesting)

Jaster Mareel (460428) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316978)

I completely agree that Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula.

Although their target market seems to be kids, they create games with such amazing gameplay, design, and detail that they appeal to people of all ages (in addition, they seem to be expanding their target market with games such as nightmare and the resident evil games). They've cultivated brand identity and brand loyalty, and they've even created a sense of community with their website and their magazine, Nintendo Power.

Innovation? I'd say the original Gameboy was quite amazing (I spent HOURS playing my mom and my friends in head to head tetris), and now with the gameboy integration into gamecube games (a la windwaker and FF:CC). I believe that the windwaker was also one of the first if not the first console game to use cell shading (quite a risk to mess with a game with such a fanbase).

As a business entity, Nintendo remains strong and is still turning a profit (although recent profits have been negatively impacted by a declining $). While they make take a loss on their gamecube, they're able to make up for it with software sales. Think of it like a mach3. You buy the razor cheap, but they get you with the blades. In addition, the gameboy and its' software still sells quite well.

I think Nintendo will be around for quite some time.

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (0)

Jaster Mareel (460428) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317008)

if anyone would care to take a look at Nintendo from a financial standpoint....

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/report/fiscal2003.p df

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/report/Nintendo3Q_E _R elease.pdf

Re:Nintendo hasn't messed up the formula (2, Informative)

reiggin (646111) | more than 10 years ago | (#8318073)

I believe that the windwaker was also one of the first if not the first console game to use cell shading
Jet Grind Radio on Dreamcast was one of the earlier games to use cell shading. Cell Damage and Jet Set Radio Future (Xbox) are another couple games that got into cell shading before Wind Waker. I'm not sure what the first was but I am pretty sure it wasn't Wind Waker. Although Wind Waker still does it well.

Some notable GC exclusives... (4, Insightful)

heldlikesound (132717) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313583)

So we (can you tell which platform i was raised on?) don't have the blockbuster titles like GTA, Grand Turismo, Halo or S0COM , but here are some titles we have that the PS2 and Xbox DONT have... Correct me if i am wrong, not that i need to remind you....


Zelda: Wind Waker
Eternal Darkness
Viewtiful Joe
Mario Sunshine
Pikman (vastly underrated...)
Mario Kart: Double Dash

The biggest problem is, only two of those are third party studios...

I also have to admit, Nintendo is WAY behind on the online scene, the story is that they are still trying to figure out what the business model is, but i think it's clear these days, if you are in the console business and you are not embracing online play, you are about to go the way of the dinosuar, I say this after playing Madden 2004 online with a PS2 and being blown away by the voice chat quality and the polished feel of the whole experience.

Nintendo, I love you guys, but get on the ball!!!!

P.S. The remake of Metal Gear Solid for GC is coming out soon, better graphics, better AI, etc...

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (4, Insightful)

Naffer (720686) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313597)

I think what Nintendo managed to do at the last minute with the Gamecube was make it the absolutely perfect second console. Here is a console that takes up hardly any space, is cheaper to buy, and has a whole handful of exclusives. Would DVD playback have helped it sell better initially? Probably, but its much less of a factor now. I'd really love to see some numbers as to how many people who recently bought Cubes bought em as a second console.

Lovin' my cube.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (0)

memco (721915) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313688)

Actually there is the Panasonic Q which is a gc with a very nice list of features. It's silver with a small blue lcd display for disc info, lit up controller ports, and a very nice panasonic DVD player/Gamcube. Granted it's quite a bit more expensive; it still is a nice package that rounds out the GC.

As for their business model; Nintendo could use some improvement. Online play is an absolute necessity these days as is a variety of genres. Though with ports like XIII and Crystal Chronicles, their genre dilemas are wearing thin.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (1)

aweraw (557447) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314067)

Crystal Chronicles is not a port

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (0)

memco (721915) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315640)

Bad semantics. Please insert a comma or other separative mark to indicate that ports like XIII are great games, as is the new (not ported) FFCC.

Coffee......

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (5, Insightful)

CaptMonkeyDLuffy (623905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315600)

Er... Online play is a necessity?

I keep hearing this repeated again and again, by both 'professional' critics, and online experts debating the various consoles. But if you look at the numbers, it just doesn't add up. When compared to the installed user base, or compared to the sales of blockbuster(or near blockbuster) game titles, the numbers of consoles being used online is rather pitiful.

This isn't to say that going online is a bad step for a console, but the reality of the current situation is that a very vocal minority are hyping the concept, but the majority are rather lukewarm to it. If online consoles were the must have killer app that people make them out to be, then the Dreamcast should have done a lot better. The XBox should be overtaking the PS2, not losing to the Cube in Japan, and fighting on fairly even footing across the rest of the world. If online console gaming is such a killer app, then XBox live subscriptions should be through the roof.

A good online system is definitely a benefit to a console. Currently, in the console market online gaming sells, but it's not the sort of issue that makes or breaks a deal yet. The market for online consoles is definitely improving, and growing and one day a strong online function will be a requirement for a console, but given the current numbers that day hasn't occured yet.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (0)

memco (721915) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317859)

I say it's a necessity to have not to use. The GC has a broadband adapter which is great should an online gaming boom suddenly occur. As you said the GC is beating out XBox in JP, and it is not a very good online system.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (2, Insightful)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313650)

Also, the GC is cheap enough that it's easy to own that along with your PS2 or XBOX. Nintendo nailed that one.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (4, Informative)

Johnso (520335) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313673)

Don't forget:

Metroid Prime
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
Animal Crossing
The Resident Evil series

and many other excellent first-party games (Mario Golf, etc.)

And that's not counting the thousands of Game Boy games you can play with the Game Boy Player. There's an endless supply of classics to sift through.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (1)

spoodie (641820) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314524)

The Resident Evil series arent exclusive to the Gamecube, quite the opposite in fact.

But kudos on mentioning Animal Crossing, if only it was coming to the UK: http://www.petitiononline.com/BACOGTTU/petition.ht ml

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (3, Informative)

PainKilleR-CE (597083) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314564)

The Resident Evil series arent exclusive to the Gamecube, quite the opposite in fact.

Resident Evil 0 and the remake of Resident Evil are Cube exclusives. I believe they're going to release one more Cube-exclusive RE title, as well.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (2, Insightful)

kisrael (134664) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314669)

I can't BELIEVE you BOTH forgot:

*Smash Brothers

*Rogue Squadron (not so much its sequel)

*Super Monkey Ball 1 and 2

2 of those are even big third party titles. And the first two are really what sold me the system, though I'm a bit of a Nintendo fanboy.

Two of what? (2)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313876)

The only non-Nintendo non-Capcom title there is Eternal Darkness, which is 2nd party. Silicon Knights don't count.

The only titles that've received any success on the system so far (outside of Nintendo 1st and 2nd party) are the Capcom titles; specifically Resident Evil. Beyond that, the odd other title has received success (Pac Man World 2), but nothing worth writting home about. Nintendo's own titles tend to eclipse the third-party titles when third-party interest is mainly on other systems.

If Nintendo went 3rd party ala Sega, I'm sure they'd be opening themselves up to a wider audience and raking in a lot of money. The trouble then is who would make such wonderful hardware design :)

Re:Two of what? (2, Insightful)

PainKilleR-CE (597083) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314622)

The only titles that've received any success on the system so far (outside of Nintendo 1st and 2nd party) are the Capcom titles; specifically Resident Evil. Beyond that, the odd other title has received success (Pac Man World 2), but nothing worth writting home about. Nintendo's own titles tend to eclipse the third-party titles when third-party interest is mainly on other systems.

Namco's been doing fairly well on the Cube; besides Pac-Man, Soul Calibur 2 did very well on the Cube, and they had 2 or 3 titles that haven't been released in the US yet that did very well in Japan last year.

It may be too early to tell how well FF:CC is doing, but it'd be nice to see it do well, if only to see more SquareEnix titles on Nintendo's home consoles again. Super Monkey Ball also did well. Overall, though, Nintendo's 1st and 2nd party titles definitely overshadow the rest of the offerings on the console. That being said, most of the titles and developers that are run off because of this aren't developing high-quality titles in the first place, which leads to a higher percentage of strong titles, even if the total number of titles is lower.

If Nintendo went 3rd party ala Sega, I'm sure they'd be opening themselves up to a wider audience and raking in a lot of money. The trouble then is who would make such wonderful hardware design

They'd also have to release more software than they do now to make up for the loss of profits on hardware. As it stands, their titles are selling very well, and the primary gain from selling their games on say the PS2 would be better long-term sales. Plus, they'd make less money on each copy they sold if it were on someone else's console, because they'd have to pay the fees associated with releasing console games which they don't pay on their own hardware.

How many five year olds need on-line gaming? (0, Flamebait)

gmezero (4448) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314008)

eh?...

what about in three years?

five?

ten? ...who knows.

Hmm... but my guess right now is it will be the same number as there are now.

None.

Who is Nintendo's market?

kids...

twenty years ago?

kids...

are people still having kids?

Say doh.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (1)

spoodie (641820) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314544)

I think Luigi's Mansion deserves a mention. As with all in-house Nintendo titles it's exquisitely crafted and a joy to play. The main criticism is that it's too short but how many people bother to complete games these days, it's rare for me.

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (1)

rabbot (740825) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316015)

In regard to Nintendo being WAY behind on the online scene, I don't think that is a bad thing. PC's will always win the online battle, and consoles should stick to what they do best, which is provide games that are a blast to play when you are by yourself or hanging out with a group of friends. This is where Nintendo shines. Nintendo continues to bring us quality titles in both categories. I'll stick to playing my MMORPG's and FPS's on the PC, and let GameCube handle the rest :]

Re:Some notable GC exclusives... (4, Insightful)

Shaleh (1050) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316418)

I just don't buy the online thing. Been a GC owner since the platinum box came out.

I own a NES and a SNES, and have owned a genesis (mmm Altered Beast). I go back over and over to play these games.

What happens when the online server dies? When the players move on? These games are fun for a month or 6 and then dead. I do not own many GC games but I play and love all of them (well, except Robotech ....). I will probably come back to Pikmin or Metroid: Prime in 10 years. Will you try to play one of the online games then?

As the old saying goes, whatever happened to nostalgia.

Join the borg (-1, Troll)

arrow (9545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313595)

...May 2004: Microsoft announces purchace of Nintendo. Gamecube becomes rebranded Xbox.

(turn your sarcasam detectors on before moderating)

Re:Join the borg (0)

mausmalone (594185) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313607)

The only problem is that Nintendo has too much Japanese pride and identity to allow itself to be bought by an American competitor.

XBox rules!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313941)

first post!!! you lame assholes... I can post first because my XBox is a american product and my pride in my great country and my great XBox accelerate everything...

If only they would make games for that bitch... IAve played Metroid Prime and it ruled... I hope M$ will buy those japanese bastards and port Metroid to my great american console system!!!

Did someone say TimeCube? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313609)

http://www.timecube.com/

Or maybe I just misread the headline.

Thoughts (0, Flamebait)

FortissimoWily (703397) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313680)

"What's your view of the success of the GameCube and its software titles in the current console generation?"
There are other consoles worth playing this generation? O_o;;

Re:Thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8315636)

Well, there was the Dreamcast. ^_^

Nintendo (4, Insightful)

BinaryOpty (736955) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313694)

The mass market doesn't appreciate Nintendo trying to keep the gaming market from digging itself into a rut. It's going to be the crash of the 80's all over again if someone powerful doesn't step up and try to stop it. Nintendo was there back then, Sony and Microsoft weren't, so I trust Nintendo's word on a stagnating gaming economy over the other two. GameCube-GBA connectivity is something only they can do right now (and you know Sony's going to be all over PSP-PS3 connectivity) and if it's used right it can produce innovative games (and unfortunately, it's not used well at all).

Also Nintendo, by making the GameCube use a proprietary DVD format, made it so DVD movie playback was impossible on the system. This decision also made pirating software on the system hard, and so any sales they've lost in hardware have probably been more than made up in with the sales of software because there aren't many (if any) pirated games. Plus, the GameCube was making a general profit with each console sold when it was $200, a smaller one with $150, slipped into the negatives when Nintendo started including a game with the system at $150, and is still in the negatives with $99 without a game. So, for most of the system's lifetime it's been making a profit with every console sold.

Another point is that by ignoring the internet scene, Nintendo lets Microsoft and Sony run out and get riddled by bullets while they sit back, watch, and take notes. Hopefully Nintendo will glue together the best pieces of Microsoft and Sony's online strategies into a kickass network for their next console.

One thing Nintendo needs to do is stop letting Yamauchi come back from the grave and babble about their business. It's just making fodder for the [crappy] news sites to toss out as "Nintendo's dying! Ahh!" news. He retired, stop letting him talk.

Another thing, although not truly a bad thing, is that they're Japanese centric. While this has its good sides, it alienates them from the rest of the world. But, since it is a 100+ year old company, Japanese pride is definitely going to be a major part of any decision. Hopefully (yet another hopefully...) they will strike a balance between their focus on Japan and their focus on the rest of the world and maybe rope in some more American 3rd parties. Most 3rd parties don't want to compete against Nintendo's games, so they just focus on the other consoles.

So, Nintendo has a lot of work to do in the next generation to get the people who left them to return, both 3rd parties and customers. They definitely won't pull a Sega in the next generation, though.

Re:Nintendo (2)

DeadScreenSky (666442) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314606)

I don't think the latest Zelda, Mario, Kirby, Pokemon, FZero, Metroid, etc. franchise game is going to prevent gaming from getting into a rut. In fact, that creative rut is exactly why I have yet to pick up a GC. Though you will find plenty of sequels on PS2 or Xbox, the complete lack of new characters or settings by Nintendo for the GC or GBA is appalling. (Yes, there is Pikmin and a couple other exceptions.)

Worldwide more games were sold last year than the year previous. The only place where the videogame market is potentially stagnating is Japan, and that is more that the traditional gamemakers that don't adapt are suffering. Cell phone game sales and play are way up, for example. And I know Nintendo is planning to bring Japan out of its recession, but for the time being that is really messing up sales for things like games. :P

And Nintendo doesn't need to piece together a new network setup - they just need to copy Xbox Live. :D MS nailed it on the first go, the only issue being certain groups like EA not yet supporting it - an unavoidable problem if you aren't number one in sales.

Re:Nintendo (2, Insightful)

YomikoReadman (678084) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315011)

While the lastest incarnation of Nintendo's older franchises is not necessarily enough to get the gaming industry out of a rut, the innovations and new ideas they bring to the table with them most certainly will be. Who would have imagined that taking Metroid from a 2D side scroller to a 3D First Person adventure type game would have done so well? There are others here, but I'll leave it with metroid for now.

As for the complete lack, as you yourself pointed out, this isn't true. Pikmin is a stellar example of this, as well as Animal Crossing, and a handful of exclusive new RPGs we'll be seeing later this year, such as Baiten Kaitos. Besides, is a whole new character or setting really required to innovate?

Now for the online issue. While you are probably aware of WarpPipe, it certainly deserves a mention. I think that the only real issue with it is that there is simply no first party support for it, and it is not the easiest thing in the world to get running, from my understanding. That said, I believe that the possibility that Nintendo has taken notice that the fans do want online play, and want it bad enough to go do it themselves, that it is highly likely that when they launch the next console, it will either have Broadband/Modem integrated, or will be available as an add-in so that they can keep the price point of the system as low as possible, which we all know them to be keen on. I'm pretty sure that they've got some kind of online effort going on at any rate, since they don't like to lag behind for very long.

Bottom line, while they may be dropping the ball in some places, I think that whatever they have missed on will be getting taken care of in a big way next time around. I still doubt we'll see DVD playback, but then again, I doubt that Sony or MS will include it unless it is necessary for backwards compatibility. As for Nintendo, we can only hope they will take a cue from Sony and allow backwards compatibility, but they've been good about that with the GB, so hopefully they've learned their lesson.

Re:Nintendo (1)

nocomment (239368) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317069)

I'm jsut the opposite, I love playing those same characters. I think it is important to ocasionally mix it up a little and throw in someone new. For the most part though, I LOVE playing link. I don't know what I'm going to do when I beat wind waker.

Re:Nintendo (1)

I_Love_Pocky! (751171) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317239)

You note that you have yet to pick up a GameCube, because you consider it a creative rut to be making frachise games. After having actually played these games, I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't seem to be mentioned much here, but Zelda: Wind Waker isn't just the best Zelda game ever, it is simply one of the most inovative and entertaining games I have ever played on any system (including the PC). It isn't just a sequel, it is an amazingly well done, inventive game that happens to have a story line that is tied to previous games (very well I might add). Doing franchise games doesn't have to mean that they have to be rehashes of previous games. It just means that the story and the characters are familiar. I never picked up a PS2 (or PS for that matter), or XBox, because of the fact that their games rarely seemed to have the kind of engaging atmosphere found in Nintendo games. The types of games that are great on these consoles are the same types of games that are great on the PC (which is where I play them). A noteable exception is the GranTurismo series (which should be on the PC).

Re:Nintendo (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 10 years ago | (#8318043)

EA not supporting XBOX EVIL is nothing to do with market size; it's because Microsoft insisted that EA would have to turn over all its customer data to them, as well as host everything on Microsoft servers. The TCO pain of the latter was a disincentive, but it was the former that was the real dealbreaker.

Re:Nintendo (2, Insightful)

PeeweeJD (623974) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316077)

Another point is that by ignoring the internet scene, Nintendo lets Microsoft and Sony run out and get riddled by bullets while they sit back, watch, and take notes. Hopefully Nintendo will glue together the best pieces of Microsoft and Sony's online strategies into a kickass network for their next console.

If by "riddled with bullets" you mean "alienate customers who want to play games online" you are correct. Or maybe you meant, "make sure people who want to play online do not buy the next Ninteno console".

Online gaming is now part of the cost of doing business in this industry. (notice the period)

I have owned NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube. Gamecube was my first console this generation. Nintendo's next console will not be my first choice the next generation. Why, because of no online gaming.

They have little or no chance of competing with MS and Sony in creating an online presence for the next gen. MS and Sony are too far ahead. XboxLive is still cutting baby teeth. The next version should be pretty killer.

I have 10 games for the cube (1)

Radix37 (670836) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313745)

I may not play them all the time, but they've all got there fair share... especially Metroid Prime heh. There's more I'd love to buy, but I don't know if I can afford to spend money right now. Help me PHEAA! :-\

There's only a few ps2/xbox games i'd be interested in, not enough to buy the systems even if they drop in price again. I'm far more interested in getting a game boy player to play GBA games on the cube instead of a ps2 or xbox.

Re:I have 10 games for the cube (3, Interesting)

Rallion (711805) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313973)

I only have about ten games, myself, and am also poor... ;) When I look around, I see people owning way more games for the other two players than for their GameCubes.

That means something. It's actually pretty interesting, as I see it. Now, most of those relatively few games everybody has are the same--I know about thirty GameCube owners and every single one has SSB:M. Anyway, it means that the games are so damn good you only need a few.

If this were the case for Sony or Microsoft, it would really suck for them. If overall better games means overall less sales, it also means less profit. Which is an interesting paradox, isn't it? But Nintendo's first-party focus makes this work! The games that they make, and ultimately take ALL the profit for, are the ones that sell like mad. I'm sure they get much more money from five first-party sales than ten third-party.

Ultimately they can let their customers spend less, yet get to keep more themselves.

Is there something wrong with this analysis? It really looks almost too good to be true.

Re:I have 10 games for the cube (1)

hambonewilkins (739531) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315445)

Hmmm... I'm not sure I agree.

After all, as a Mac user I only have a handful of games and other Mac users I know have a handful of games.

Does that mean "the games are so damn good you only need a few"? Or does it mean that less games are available and many, like myself, have moved to PC or a console for gaming?

Re:I have 10 games for the cube (2, Interesting)

I_Love_Pocky! (751171) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317318)

That is a good point, but in the case of the GameCube, the handful of games there really are that good. Nintendo's first party games are top notch. They should be first and foremost a software company, because their games would get played anywhere.

all about the characters (5, Interesting)

mehu (92260) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313751)

Nintendo has always had Mario, Zelda, and Metroid. I never had a SNES, but I've played all the way through every NES, N64 and GC version of each of the three series, and ALWAYS look forward to the next ones. Why? It's all about the characters. Which is also why I love Super Smash Bros. Melee so much, despite the fact that I never really liked any other combat-type game (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc.).

I haven't even bothered looking at an Xbox, but we've got a PS2, of which my gf is a huge fan, mostly for the Final Fantasy series. And yeah, the graphics are nice, but the character movement & game play just doesn't seem as fluid - especially the camera controls. Started playing Ratchet & Clank a while ago, and after being used to Mario & Zelda 64 camera controls, I find the 'set camera behind you' interface to be horribly disorienting. Not to mention the damn controller- every time it says to push square, circle, triangle, or X, I have to look down. I've never had a problem finding A/B/X/Y, and w/ color-coded screen icons representing the buttons, they're even easier to find. Better control, better characters, better games.

Re:all about the characters (2, Interesting)

kisrael (134664) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314656)

Which is also why I love Super Smash Bros. Melee so much, despite the fact that I never really liked any other combat-type game (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc.).

The heritage of Nintendo is definately one of the main appeals of Smash Bros, but don't sell the game short: it has a really unique play mechanic that no other fighter really has, the whole knock the opponent up up and away, and that has some cool side benefits like making the layout of the levels much more important than in a typical 2D or even 3D fighter. Combined with the huge amount of weapons and surprisingly balanced yet amazing diverse characters, and it would be a great (if less compelling) game even w/o the known characters.

If you have a Dreamcast, you might also enjoy Powerstone 2, which is also 4 player mayhem, but more 3D feeling.

Video game analysts! (4, Insightful)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313813)

"I think it was a matter of form factor. I think it was the lack of third-party support. I think it was the way the market shifted toward an older audience," says video-games analyst, John Taylor, of Arcadia Investment Corp. "All of those things combined to hold GameCube back."

Or maybe it was largely because consumers had already spent three hundred dollars on one system a year ago, didn't feel that any particular title demanded they empty their wallets when it came out, and felt they already had a comparable system thanks to the gaming media's need to pidgeonhole gaming systems into "generations" when clearly the term has been pointless ever since polygon based gaming took hold of the market. At the most precursory level, the sony playstation had a 32bit processor and the n64 had a 64. Fortunately for the media these two seperate and unique beasts wind up performing about the same, plus or minus the developer's raw technical ability.
But what generation does the dreamcast belong to? The PS2 came out two years later and the visual quality between the two is often difficult to percieve.

What really matters, and nintendo has recognized, is time to market. Be the guy who defines the "generation" and make waves, either through temporary scarcity resulting in mere containers for the system being sold at 299 or by building a system backwards compatible with its predecessor. The president of Nintendo has stated they have learned this much. SNES had a huge run because it came out with a large number of cool games early on. The n64 had two, and 8 by christmas. The gamecube had 2 and 4 by christmas. It seems nintendo has realized they can't produce quality flagship software in time enough for launch. They may soon be taking the Sony approach of putting the hardware out there early, flooding the media with atmospheric trailers, releasing a demo disc attached to a shitty game and then releasing the goods a year later. For all we know, Mario 128 is exactly that.

Or maybe Nintendo will really bank heavily on the quirky game design via toys like gameboy DS or whatever.

Re:Video game analysts! (1)

grotgrot (451123) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314144)

Or maybe Nintendo will really bank heavily on the quirky game design via toys like gameboy DS or whatever.

Actually it is about time that Nintendo did some toys. I bought a GameCube. I got hooked on DDR at a friends house, and had to get a PS/2 to play it. I also got an EyeToy (great party game especially if drunk :-) I haven't seen any games for the Cube that use other peripherals (guns, pads, cameras etc)

Re:Video game analysts! (1)

CaptMonkeyDLuffy (623905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315706)

Not out in the US yet, but Donkey Konga is a Bemani style game. Aka, a rythym type game like DDR, but based on drums not dancing...

It's all about net profit. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313827)

Everyone always seems to forget that Nintendo has to make a net profit off of it's games, because that's its only industry, where as Microsoft has probably only lost money on the Xbox, and is simply trying to use it as a tool to "get into your living room" so to speak. If you just look at net profit, I bet Nintendo has a HUGE lead on MS (even if you totally cut out their GB/GBA earnings).

Of course I'd appreciate any links to numbers that support or prove my theory wrong...

The only thing lacking. (0, Flamebait)

nempo (325296) | more than 10 years ago | (#8313891)

Pretty much the only thing that is lacking for the Gamecube is a good GT and a good racing game (both with authentic cars, preferable combined, like Gran turismo and Sega GT).

PS2 have Grand turismo, metal gear and the final fantasy series. Xbox have project gotham 2.

Which console is more attractive now?

XBox rules!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8314011)

first post!!! you lame assholes... I can post first because my XBox is a american product and my pride in my great country and my great XBox accelerate everything...

If only they would make games for that bitch... IAve played Metroid Prime and it ruled... I hope M$ will buy those japanese bastards and port Metroid to my great american console system!!!

Re:The only thing lacking. (2, Interesting)

Rallion (711805) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314073)

Pffft. Why bother when Double Dash is just so much better anyway? :)

Really, a realistic racing game (or a realistic anything) doesn't seem like something Nintendo would put high on its agenda, and so really shouldn't be something a GameCube owner is looking for.

To me, saying a Nintendo system is lacking a good realistic racing game is like...like saying my BMW lacks guided missile launchers. It would be nice to have, but come on, was anybody really expecting otherwise?

Re:The only thing lacking. (1)

DaveJay (133437) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314101)

Even the PS2 lacks the best racing game ever: "Test Drive: Le Mans" for the Dreamcast. It was one of many versions of the game for various platforms, but somehow the developers of the Dreamcast version NAILED it. When the PS2's GTurismo3 came out, we played it back-to-back with TDLM, and after oooing and aahing at the graphics on the PS2 for a few minutes, turned it off and went right back to beating up on each other in TDLM.

Why? Well, four-player support, a great learning curve (beginners could turn on so many aids that children could drive well, and if you turned them all off you could really drive quickly -- unless you weren't skilled yet, in which case you turned 'em right back on), and a perfect balance of realism and arcade style.

I still have a Dreamcast tucked away at home exclusively to play that game when friends come over (the GameCube holds the primary console honors.)

JUSTIFYING OUR PURCHASE, AREN'T WE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8314438)

I take it you're a PS2 and XBox fanboy, right?

Re:The only thing lacking. (2, Informative)

PainKilleR-CE (597083) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314709)

PS2 have Grand turismo, metal gear and the final fantasy series. Xbox have project gotham 2

OK, I give you GT3 (and soon GT4) and PGR2, but the Cube is getting the Metal Gear Solid remake and has Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.

Not to mention the rest of the Cube's exclusive titles. While we're talking about racing games, where's an equal to Mario Kart on ANY platform? Or, for that matter, F-Zero GX?

None of the consoles of this generation has managed to have everything everyone could possibly want.

Re:The only thing lacking. (1)

hibiki_r (649814) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316743)

Yep, great games, but still, getting just one quality driving simulator could do nothing but help. I know some driving fans that never bought the GCN because they weren't into arcade style racing (a genre in which without a doubt,the GCN rules supreme). A Gran Turismo competitor for the console would do nothing but help sales.

Re:The only thing lacking. (1)

I_Love_Pocky! (751171) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317429)

I couldn't agree more. The only reason I held out on buying a GC for so long was because I was tempted to get a PS2 for GranTurismo3. Zelda: Wind Waker came out, and so made my choice a whole lot easier. I still wish I could play GT3 though (I can't see any other reason to own a PS2). If PS2 drops to $99, I may buy it just for GT3.

XBox rules!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313917)

first post!!! you lame assholes... I can post first because my XBox is a american product and my pride in my great country and my great XBox accelerate everything...

If only they would make games for that bitch... IAve played Metroid Prime and it ruled... I hope M$ will buy those japanese bastards and port Metroid to my great american console system!!!

GAMESPY ARE BIASED FANBOYS BETWEEN FLASH ADVERTS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313979)

Enough said. I don't take any of their stuff serious. This article might let the GC look good or so. But in general Gamespy sucks ass. Seriously.

Re:GAMESPY ARE BIASED FANBOYS BETWEEN FLASH ADVERT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8313998)

this is slashdot... slashdot moderators are licking the cream off their asses in order to post it on their oss news and nerds site.. how pathetic... even GNAA or other comments are more interesting and worth than anything that has ever come from that gamespy crap site.. godammit... i bet that fat assed (adipose) asshole cowboy neal is the favourite ass cream licker at gamespy.. he likes to get to that place and lick little fanboys asses clean for news nobody cares or gives a shit about... cowboy neal likes to lick little childrens assholes wet and clean...

Sold my Playstation, bought a GameCube. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8314013)

Why? Simple. I look at the games available for the PS2. I look at the games available for the GC. I compare them. I take out of consideration the games available for both (either now, or in the near future -- Prince of Persia: Sands of Time is released in Australia on the GC tomorrow, but has been out here for the PS2 for a while.)

Net result: there might be one, maybe two, games on the PS2 I can find in a hurry that I can't get on the Gamecube that I'm interested in. But there's at least three games on the GC that aren't available on the PS2 that interest me: Metroid Prime, Pikmin, and Eternal Darkness. That makes the decision a no-brainer.

I go where the games are. This round, that's Nintendo. Next round, who knows? But I expect the GameCube to give me good gaming for quite some time yet.

Re:Sold my Playstation, bought a GameCube. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8315232)

You might want to also check out Ikaruga and Viewtiful Joe. ...If you like your games both painfully hard and good.

I love my GameCube (5, Interesting)

DaveJay (133437) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314070)

Why do I love my GameCube?

Well, it has the exclusive Mario Kart on it, which I love. It has the exclusive Animal Crossing on it, which made me late for work on many an occasion and ate well over 40 hours of time each from my wife's life and from mine. It also has the only non-Nintendo-specific games I wanted, which are The Simpsons: Hit 'n Run and all of the Tony Hawk series (my wife, inexplicably, LOVES the Tony Hawk series and kicks my ass on a regular basis.)

So, it plays exclusive games I love, it plays the multi-console games I want, the controller fits my hand well (including the wavebird wireless), it tucks unobtrusively into a corner of my entertainment center, and it was c-h-e-a-p.

Finally, when my wife gives birth to our first child, I know I can throw the GameCube in the closet and pull it out a few years later and introduce them to Pikmin, Animal Crossing, and other non-violent games.

It is, in short, a great family-oriented middle of the road box with just enough hardcore game titles to keep this mid-30-year-old satisfied. Kind of the Atari 2600 of current consoles.

Plus it's blue. I like blue. ;)

Re:I love my GameCube (1)

CaptMonkeyDLuffy (623905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315808)

Er... Pikmin is nonviolent?

While it certainly doesn't show blood and guts flying across the screen, the game certainly has its own form of violence, coupled with really morbid undertones(the entire survival of the fittest, natural world in which things kill or be killed vibe). Yet, at the same time it's brightly colored, has a very cute look, and a fairly cheery feel to it(all the while little Olimar is discussing how he'll run out of oxygen in so many days...)

Still, the game would be good for a kid... I'm just not certain 'non violent' is the most accurate description.

My opinion (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8314478)

Am I the only one that thinks the GC doesn't sell that well because of the lack of modchips ?

I mean, people can copy PS2 and XBOX games. Most people don't, but they know it's possible. Doesn't that play an important role in making the system more popular ?

I'm not for piracy, but I think the possibility can be a real marketing argument.

Re:My opinion (1)

StocDred (691816) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315182)

Am I the only one that thinks the GC doesn't sell that well because of the lack of modchips ?

On Slashdot, no.
In the real world, yes.

Re:My opinion (2, Informative)

hibiki_r (649814) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316902)

I'm not sure about the US, but in Europe, there's no question that being able to pirate games for the console is a big selling point. Real life example:One of my cousins wanted to buy a console for his 6 year old kid. The best console for the kid's tastes is clearly a GCN. However, since the GCN games cannot be copied, and he doesn't want to buy many games for the kid, he went ahead an bought an XBOX, where they can copy games for the price of a writable DVD.

The real question is, do the few games that the pirates actualy buy offset the 'real' lost sales? I think they do, but I wish there was a good experimental proof for this, one way or another.

Re:My opinion (1)

I_Love_Pocky! (751171) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317482)

Why should the manufatures care about how many consoles they sell to pirates? Most of them are taking a loss on the console with the hope of making a profit on the software. Just because XBox is outselling GC doesn't mean that it make MS the winner. MS is losing money through the nose on XBox, and Nintendo is turning a profit on GC. Who is the real winner?

Nintendo rules all (1, Interesting)

SphericalCrusher (739397) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314495)

Even though it is in 2nd place, deep down, I feel that the Nintendo GameCube is in first place. What other gaming company has focused more on games than anything else and succeeded as much as Nintendo has? Despite how much "trash talk" can come out of one fan boy's mouth about loving the XBOX and hating the GameCube, I think we all understand now where each one stands. The XBOX is a big powerhouse console. Sure, it has power, great graphics, and can be modded easier than any other console... but can it compare to Nintendo? Nope. Can Microsoft compare to Nintendo's genius game design techniques? Hell no.

Anyone else amused by this? (5, Interesting)

$rtbl_this (584653) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314558)

May 12th: Microsoft shows an improved E3 lineup that includes previews of Doom 3 and Halo 2. Sony looks strong with Eye-Toy, Gran Turismo 4, a strong online presence, and the surprise announcement of PSP. Nintendo looks dazed as Shigeru Miyamoto demonstrates a new multiplayer version of Pac-Man and most of the big games for GameCube are rehashes of past hits

Phew! Good thing most of the titles announced for the other consoles weren't just rehashes of past hits!

Re:Anyone else amused by this? (1)

hambonewilkins (739531) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315470)

I think your joke is funny, but to be fair sequels aren't necessarily rehashes of past hits. GT4 is primed to have something like 800 cars, Doom 3 is many many years past Doom II, most likely a much different game.

N's bringing bac Pac-Man? Guh?

Re:Anyone else amused by this? (1)

DavidLeblond (267211) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315671)

To be fair, Pac Man for the Gamecube isn't anything like the original. It actually looks like a pretty good idea, although I wouldn't get it because I usually play single player games.

Re:Anyone else amused by this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8317593)

So, a racing simulator adds more cars to its stable. An FPS has a graphics overhaul. And an old arcade game has its entire basic concept revamped and turned into a significantly changed multiplayer experience.

Funny, only one of those sounds like it isn't a rehash of a past hit to me.

Re:Anyone else amused by this? (0)

PeeweeJD (623974) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316158)

you know what's funny? they think being able to connect a GBA to your cube is better than playing online...

the author may be referring to Nintendo's recycling of older games from different consoles (metal gear, sonic adventure dx)

ps: that pac man game got canned.

Steven L. Kent, crack fiend (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8314576)

This guy's nuts. Grape Nuts. He could have titled the article, "Many flawed reasons why I don't like the GameCube."

"Despite being the wrong product at the wrong time,"

Ohhhh-kay. Instant glove slap. That's GameSpy's casual sensationalism for you.

"....the market shifted toward older audiences with less toy-like tastes...."

Yes. Let's talk about "the market." The same "market" that is composed largely of children, PARENTS, and gamers who have been playing since they themselves were chilren. The same "market" that keeps Pokemon at or near the top of the sales charts in any given region for multiple-month stretches each time. The same "market" that has caused the GameBoy platform (of all things) to be the longest running and most popular purely gaming platform ever.

Zip forward temporarily to 2002:

"June 23rd: Eternal Darkness ships to very disappointing sales. Only 300,000 copies are sold.

August 25th: Super Mario Sunshine ships and becomes the number 10 best-selling game of the year with over 1.5 million copies sold."

Would Mr. Kent like to explain how such a game with a "kiddy" image, not to mention one that many (not myself) consider a sub-standard Mario game, outsold such a high-quality game obviously targeted at adults by so large a margin? This only proves either that adults can enjoy colorful games, nullifying the "games for everyone = kiddy" stereotype, or that pandering to adults is not a pre-requisite to success. Win-win for Nintendo.

"When, in 2001, Nintendo unveiled the indigo box with the big black handle, Nintendo executives looked a bit like a well-meaning uncle presenting a Barbie doll to his 15-year-old niece."

More like a boombox that can play whatever she chooses.

"GameCube seemed doomed from the start." ....to Steven L. Kent, I'm sure.

"PlayStation 2, which had backwards compatibility with original PlayStation games and a huge list of exclusive titles, was viewed as the system with the best library and the most chic."

False. For over a year after its North American launch (the period of which Mr. Kent speaks), the PS2's library was lackluster and meager.

"....even after lowering the price of its system hardware to $99 and outselling Microsoft in 2003, GameCube did not catch up to Xbox."

Spin. Here Steven turns a positive point about a current ongoing trend into a negative point about past performance.

"....Yamauchi's comment that, "Nintendo is planning to make the Game Boy and its Advance successor the company's top priority." seemed cavalier. In retrospect, it was merely prophetic."

This seemed cavalier to whom? Those who chose not to believe him? Those who chose to ignore the fact that GameBoy sales had helped subsidize Nintendo 64 production and sales throughout its lifetime? The then-head of the company makes statements that Steven fails to understand completely almost six years later (which end up being true), and this only "merely" seems prophetic to him? Looks to me like Yamauchi really IS crazy like a fox, while Mr. Kent is just crazy.

"PlayStation 2 goes on sale in North America and stores cannot keep up with demand until March, 2001."

He (hopefully) means that SONY couldn't keep up with demand. Retailers had nothing to do with it. It was a production problem, plain and simple. Sony was either (A) deceptive enough create an artificial scarcity to increase demand, or (B) incompetent enough not to be able to gauge the market and/or keep up with market demand. Considering the low build quality of first-generation N. American PS2s, either scenario is credible.

"Many Christmas shoppers who came in looking for an Xbox or a GameCube likely settled with PlayStation 2, giving PlayStation 2 a huge install base lead at the end of the holidays."

And vice versa. This is a non-point that Mr. Kent tries to turn into a negative against the GameCube. Why?

"By the end of 2003, Nintendo's decision to pursue Game Boy/GameCube connectivity instead of Internet access would be considered a drag on system sales."

Steven seems to have swallowed the red herring.

Nintendo's GBA/GameCube connectivity has never really been a replacement for their hands-off Internet strategy. Only in PR statments has that ever been the case. Think, Mr. Kent: Nothing about GBA/GCN connectivity precludes internet capability. Rather, it makes games like Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles possible, while they are impossible on any other currently-available system.

"Nintendo's decision to promote GameCube as a platform for adult games is too little, too late."

To do what? Make Steven L. Kent smile?

"The little indigo box with the big black handle does not look like an adult toy."

Thank goodness for small miracles. The Xbox, on the other hand, is big enough that it could probably double as a Sybian if one were to mount a rumble-enabled joystick on top of it.

"After years of promoting a squeaky-clean "Disney of Gaming" image, Nintendo would soon discover that it could not compete with Microsoft and Sony for older players."

Spin. This point is unprovable because it's wrong. I myself am anecdotal evidence of this.

"September: Rare Ltd., creator of Donkey Kong Country and Goldeneye 007, breaks with Nintendo and is purchased by Microsoft for $375 million."

Spin. Notice the structure of that sentence: In Steven L. Kent's mind it is Rare that actively breaks with Nintendo.

"This acquisition turned ugly as Nintendo tried to frame the coverage by asking, "Who wants 'em?" Nintendo gamely pointed out that while Rare had once been quite the hit-maker, of recent it had been all but silent on GameCube."

To an anti-Nintendo fanboy, this lie is probably very comforting for some reason.

In reality, Nintendo considered and threw out THEIR first option (which was provided to them by Rare) to purchase Rare outright. Nintendo understood what Rare was hoping they wouldn't: Rare is not worth their asking price because their talent has been depleted, the quality of their games has diminished, and their ability to produce games in a timely fashion is nonexistent. Basically, Rare had grown lazy and worthless.

Microsoft chomped at the bit to get Rare when Nintendo dumped them, hoping to gain a partner who would help capture the younger market. After all, as P. Diddy tells us in Grabbed By the Ghoulies commercials featuring young pillow-fighting children, they are "the makers of Donkey Kong Country." This game has performed so poorly, that now Microsoft has to deal with Rare the same way it has been dealing with all aspects of their Xbox business: Bleed money now and pray for both long-term success and the death of their enemies.

"E3 2003 was a damaging moment for Nintendo. The most veteran company in the industry, Nintendo normally dazzled the crowds at the show. Many attendees simply gave up on Nintendo, believing that the company had already lost its lead in the console business and would now fall behind PSP in the portable business as well."

Spin. This is one of many examples in this article where Mr. Kent speaks on behalf of other people - "many" or them, in this case. Talk about about projecting one's ego. I don't know anyone that changed their minds about Nintendo after E303; the Nintendo players continued playing Nintendo and the anti-Nintendo players weren't paying attention anyways.

What a poorly-written, poorly-researched, biased article. That it comes from GameSpy is no surprise.

Re:Steven L. Kent, crack fiend (0)

ronfar (52216) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315282)

"June 23rd: Eternal Darkness ships to very disappointing sales. Only 300,000 copies are sold.

August 25th: Super Mario Sunshine ships and becomes the number 10 best-selling game of the year with over 1.5 million copies sold."

I was reading a Chicago Tribune article on just this subject:

'Eternal Darkness' scores high on insanity [chicagotribune.com] (require's registration).

The relevant quote:

It's called "Eternal Darkness," and it's $50 worth of nightmares. Nintendo recently shipped this horror game to retailers, but not so you'd notice. The big N cautiously promoted it's first self-published M-rated game for the GameCube in publications catering to older audiences; so unless you monitored this game's four-year development cycle via the Internet or subscribe to jiggle books, it's likely this release slipped under your radar. Kudos to Nintendo for advertising responsibly (something this industry is not known for), but unless word-of-mouth reaches "Grand Theft Auto" levels, "Eternal Darkness" might have to settle for second-class status.
So, basically, Nintendo sabotaged it. I, myself, don't give Nintendo "Kudos" for this, they were protecting their family friendly image while hedging their bets with an "M" rated game. It was unfair to Silicon Knights and the game itself not to promote this, but business is business, I guess. I love summoning zombies, though, so I hope they make a sequel... best implementation of Call of Cthulhu ideas in an action RPG in my opinion, better than the most recent Alone in the Dark that I have for my Dreamcast. I particularly like the spell system.

Re:Steven L. Kent, crack fiend (1)

ronfar (52216) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315719)

My previous comment got modded down, and ordinarily I wouldn't care. However, I hope that honest criticism of Nintendo wasn't taken as Nintendo bashing. Personally, I like Gamecube the best of the consoles of this generation, but I still think they could have handled their promotion of Eternal Darkness better.

Re:Steven L. Kent, crack fiend (0, Troll)

PeeweeJD (623974) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316295)

Would Mr. Kent like to explain how such a game with a "kiddy" image, not to mention one that many (not myself) consider a sub-standard Mario game, outsold such a high-quality game obviously targeted at adults by so large a margin? This only proves either that adults can enjoy colorful games, nullifying the "games for everyone = kiddy" stereotype, or that pandering to adults is not a pre-requisite to success. Win-win for Nintendo

gamecube is a kiddie console. that explains it. you said it yourself. A high quality "adult focused" game got pwned by the sub-par kiddie game.

ps: had i rented super mario sunshine before I bought it, I would have saved the money. I pre-ordered it straight from nintendo so I sould have the first day it was out. I was expecting super mario 128. I got super mario 64 with a squirt gun. It was fun at first, but got old real quick.

Microsoft chomped at the bit to get Rare when Nintendo dumped them, hoping to gain a partner who would help capture the younger market. After all, as P. Diddy tells us in Grabbed By the Ghoulies commercials featuring young pillow-fighting children, they are "the makers of Donkey Kong Country."

and when Rare releases Perfect Dark Zero, they will mention "From the makers of Perfect Dark and Goldeneye".

Nintendo losing Rare as a developer (for whatever reason) is almost as damaging as losing the final fantasy games. Rare did some amazing stuff for Nintendo (Star Fox, Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark).

Re:Steven L. Kent, crack fiend (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8316781)

Nintendo losing Rare as a developer (for whatever reason) is almost as damaging as losing the final fantasy games. Rare did some amazing stuff for Nintendo (Star Fox, Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark).

You've GOT to be kidding. The Rare of today is NOTHING like it was. Perfect Dark? Those guys aren't in Rare any more. If you want to play the next great fps from those guys, go get Timesplitters 2 out of the $10 bin. Perfect Dark Zero will be new guys cramming old code into a different console; it'll suck like gravity.

Nintendo didn't so much "lose" Rare as "get rid of" Rare. Seeing their first attempt on Xbox, I can understand why.

hate the griping about the look. (3, Informative)

kisrael (134664) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314743)

I hate the griping that the console looks "toylike". I have all 3 consoles, (admittedly GC first, because of the games) and the GC is the only one that I like having out in the open. The Xbox is this hulking monstrosity with giant 80s-era fins, and the PS2 is just dull, as squared off as is PS2 logo...only its vertical stand woud make it interesting, and I heard that's not great for the alignment, so I don't do that.

Re:hate the griping about the look. (1)

MacBrave (247640) | more than 10 years ago | (#8314874)

I agree with this. The easy portability of the GC is one of the reasons I bought one for our kids.

My son takes it over to friend's houses all the time and we recently took it to our church for a baby-sitting fundraiser. The kids loved it.

Re:hate the griping about the look. (1)

kisrael (134664) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315403)

Yeah, I was thinking more about the aesthetics than the portability, but of the 3, it is definately the best to pop into a knapsack.

And the handle was a deliberate user-based design decision...they noticed that many people don't keep a system on the shelf, but bring it out towards them, so a handle made sense...not positioned so people will carry it like a lunch box, but just to make it easier to move. (Xbox dealt with the same kind of problem by going with superlong cords, since that giant system ain't going nowehere...)

Lacking (2, Insightful)

JustJon (731538) | more than 10 years ago | (#8315110)

I love my Gamecube. Any game that comes out multiplatform, I try and get for the GC, but there are genres missing and a public perception because of it.

"Adult" games. Because there are very few really violent games, it's become perceived to be a "kiddie" console. Admittedly, having GTA would have helped give the cube a new angle, but Nintendo wants to be family oriented.

Sports, racing and online. Sure, GC has all the major sports, but the only sports game people talk about is Madden on the PS2. Why? Online play. Nintendo claims that currently, they don't feel that online play is worth pursuing, but the number of Socom, Madden, and XBox Live players seem to disagree. When AI grow boring, it makes things a lot more interesting to go up against a fellow human.

RPGs. Console RPGs have a dedicated following that Nintendo barely taps into. Until recently, Zelda just scratched the surface. Final Fantasy:CC is a start and there are finally more RPGs coming in the near future.

But on the plus side, Nintendo owns, quirky, innovative and original gaming. PS2 has a huge library, which all genres are covered. And XBox has games that I'll be playing on other consoles or "exclusive" games that I can play on my PC six months to a year later. I'd rather have the Cube and be dazzled by the originality and innovation.

terrific (1)

herrvinny (698679) | more than 10 years ago | (#8316346)

I wish Halo was available for the GameCube, but other than that, it's a terrific console. Star Wars, the Game Boy Advance adapter, Zelda, etc are all good games.

What about TMNT???? (1)

I_Love_Pocky! (751171) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317668)

Ok, everyone is mentioning the great games for the GC which there are many, but how could you all miss Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? I personally couldn't be happier by the resurgence of TMNT popularity. The TMNT game for the GC is simply awsome. Some how they were able to adapt the feel of the old style 2D side scrollers (like TMNT2 for the NES, or Streets of Rage for the Sega Genesis), to 3D, and it transitions very well. The graphics are done so well that it looks just like a cartoon.

Bottom line though, GC has an excellent selection of games that cant be found elsewhere (although, I haven't checked, so TMNT may be on other consoles).

Nintendo Love (they don't love you) (0, Insightful)

drewmca (611245) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317814)

I love my gamecube. It's not my primary system because it only has a few games I like to play. But I do love it. That much should be understood.

That said, I think someone needs to point out what should be screamingly obvious. Nintendo makes some great games, and has a great history of making great games, and that's why people love them. But people, aside from making a handful of great games (i.e., having a number of good devs), Nintendo the company doesn't love you back.

Why do I say that? Look at the facts. Nintendo is simply the most mercenary console manufacturer out there. Everything they do is predicated on how much money they make. That's fine, because it's a business, but enough with treating them like they're godlike or untouchable. In a market with 3 consoles, the consumer is the winner when the console makers step all over themselves to deliver value. But Nintendo is always one step behind, preferring to offer a way for them to make money over a way to offer you value at every turn.

Some examples:
1) No DVD. People are right, it's not a big deal now, but at the time it was. The competitors had it, GC didn't. They did it to save money. That's it. To hear their executives describe it, though, it was as if they were doing you a favor by not providing something their competitors did. "It's a game machine", they said. As if DVD playback would have somehow sullied the purity of its gaming ability. No. It would have cost them more. That's it. And it hurt them because at the time, a lot of people didn't have DVD players. And DVDs were becoming the fastest growing media format in history. People went the other way (xbox, ps2) because for an extra $50 they could get a $200 DVD player.
2) Proprietary disc format: Their format was designed to prevent piracy and nothing else. I don't think they pretended otherwise, but still, the result is cross-platform games on the GC with compressed audio and textures.
3) No online. Sorry, they're dropping the ball on this one. Why? According to them, it's because "it's premature". Meaning they can't afford or don't want to pay for the infrastructure. Hell, they don't have to have an xbox live, just something like ps2 to at least have a PRESENCE in online. There's even a slot in the bottom of the cube waiting for a network adapter, begging them to get off their ass and make it worth purchasing. The fact is, I can understand from a business perspective if they don't think they can make money on online yet. But to scold me, the consumer, for wanting it ("console online gaming isn't ready yet") while I'm sitting there begging for it is the most classic case of Nintendo looking out for their bottom line before my interests as a consumer. It's understandable from their perspective, but I'm not going to sit and bash other consoles when they are providing me with a compelling online experience. In a 3 console market, if they don't provide what I want, I'll go elsewhere.
4) Gameboy connectivity. I don't even think I need to go into this. This is the alternative they provide to online gaming. This is the "innovation" everyone is lauding them for. Please. This is nothing more than a CHEAP, CHEAP effort to cross sell. To make me buy 2 consoles to get the most out of one game (along with a cable), or in the most egregious examples, to make me buy 2 consoles and 2 copies of the same game, is just criminal. It hearkens back to the days of being a kid and all of the shitty marketing things toy companies tried to pull back in the day. "Buy our toy! Of course, if you REALLY want to get the most out of it, buy our other toy, and our toy connector, and our toy extension...." That's fine when you're a dumb kid. But after a $150 console purchase and a $50 game purchase, I expect to have everything at hand to fully enjoy a game, thank you very much. If I want something compelling as an extension to it, how about this: the chance to play against anyone in the world online, and not have to pay for another version? How about that? Their "connectivity" play offers their bottom line far more value than it does any of us. Oh, and their latest venture with Square? How many of you out there really like the idea of playing a game on your TV with the ergonomic nightmare that is the GB advance after getting used to the nice GC controller ?
5) Pokemon: Speaking of raping stupid kids and their parents, how about how they milk the Pokemon craze? I mean, it's a brilliant strategy from a marketing perspective. But I'm not going to sit and say I respect it. Hell, Microsoft had a brilliant strategy when they won the browser war. I don't see too many people loving them for that. My personal favorite example of how bad this is is how Nintendo releases Pokemon games now for the GC. Now, they release 2 versions of the same game at the same time. But they're different colors! So hey, kids, you may have Sapphire but do you have Ruby? You need that too to have full Chinpokemon power!

Everyone sticks up for Nintendo on this board at just about every turn, but the bottom line is that they don't care as much about you as you do about them. No company does. The best they can offer you is good games, and that's enough. The best I'll offer them back is buying them. But I'm not going to defend their business practices, which are unabashedly mercenary. No company should be any other way, but in a market with 3 consoles, they (like the other 2) should at least try to pretend they care about what you, the consumer, want.

I prefer GC as well... (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 10 years ago | (#8317991)

...but I don't have a TV, as soon as I would get one I would also buy the GC. However I wouldn't want a TV, so until I can hook a GC upto a monitor, THATS the day i get one, other than that i'm not interested in other consoles.
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