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Previewing the Next Solaris OS

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the bill-and-scotty's-operating-system dept.

Sun Microsystems 278

Eric Boutilier writes "Amy Rich has written an excellent Solaris Express (Solaris 10) how-to and general overview. It covers how the program works, using the community web site, and what's new in Solaris Express." Among many new features, the TCP/IP stack has been redesigned, IPv6 support improved, and both NFSv4 and USB 2.0 support added.

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278 comments

Advice needed! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338097)

I came home from school early and caught my sister masturbating with a banana. What should I do?

Re:Advice needed! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338120)

Fuck the banana and eat your sisters. Hell if that german can get away with it...

Tonight in Jamie Oliver's Kitchen we have Long Pig with a Plantain salsa...

Re:Advice needed! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338160)

Actually, cannibalism is only legal in Germany if it is done by consenting adults.

Re:Advice needed! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338379)

Fuck the banana and eat your sisters. Hell if that german can get away with it...

Eat the banana and fuck your sister. Hell if the rest of America is getting away with it...

Re:Advice needed! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338231)

Record it, and post it online? In fact, you might see if these people [suck.com] are interested ;-)

JOIN IN, IN FACT, I'LL JOIN IN AS WELL (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338390)

We can have a sister BUKKAKE session! Get you mom in on the action too. I'd love to see your sister and your mom smearing our cum all over each other's naked bodies. Mmmm... mommie+sister boobs

Moby dick (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338099)

And he piled upon the whale's white hump, a sum of all the lust and desire felt by his whole race, if his chest had been a penis he would have ejaculated his heart upon it.

Nice (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338100)

Good alternative for my boxes, diversity is good, to put along side my FreeBSD, NetBSD and Windows machines.

Now, all I need is a PowerBook and I'll be set.

Re:Nice (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338110)

The good thing about Solaris boxen is that they don't get virii and BSODs like M$ Windows^H^H^H^Hblows.

Re:Nice (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338166)

Why doesn't the /. lameness filter kick in for "boxen" and "virii" but it does for whitespace - I'd rather read whitespace than boxen...

Re:Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338134)

What ? No linux, Plan9,Darwin ?

Re:Nice (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338198)

I did run Plan9 for a while, a REALLY REALLY technically cool system. However, the administration ellegance of the BSD's are unmatched, and I have used BSD for 10+ years so the things like remote TCP stacks and such never got used as I'm stuck in the old ways of thinking. :)

Darwin, isn't my thing, I'll wait for my PowerBook and run the real thing on it.

Linux, well, nothing against it. However, I'm not fond of the GNU GPL and LGPL so removed it from my list, though Debian looks like it is similar to the BSDs in regards to technical philosophy; but then there is the license philosophy, which doesn't fit my thinking.

Re:Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338222)

"Remote TCP stacks"? Care to explain that one, because it's got me stumped..

Re:Nice (1, Insightful)

dave_f1m (602921) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338227)

So you won't run linux because of the license philosophy, but Solaris, Windows, and OSX are OK? That's pretty screwy.

Re:Nice (2, Informative)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338449)

So you won't run linux because of the license philosophy, but Solaris, Windows, and OSX are OK? That's pretty screwy.

I saw him talk about Plan9 and Linux, but nowhere did I see "Solaris", "Windows", or "OS X". Did I miss something?

Re:Nice (1)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338457)

I saw him talk about Plan9 and Linux, but nowhere did I see "Solaris", "Windows", or "OS X". Did I miss something?

It was the grandparent to the post you replied to. Mr. Anonymous Coward was talking about running Solaris, Windows, and OS X. That Anonymous Coward guy gets around... he must have the most number of posts on Slashdot.

Re:Nice (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338226)

- bad -

* Linux = for bandwagon tossers who use their computer for the sole purpose of fucking with their computer.
* Plan9 = for those with no apps to run who want the nostalga of not being able to run anything on Linux.
* Darwin = for those who bought Apple but wished they'd really bought a x86 machine to run FreeBSD.
* Windows XP = the OS of choice for professionals. Professional clowns, that is.
* OSX = the best OS to run on expensive ornamental paperweights that can't actually run any apps.

- good -

* Windows 2000 = the desktop OS of choice for people who want to do actual work with their computer.
* FreeBSD = the server OS of choice for people who just want the damn thing to be as reliable as possible.

PB is Back! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338108)

a <O I AM NOT
a ( \ DEAD.
a X I was just resting.
a 8===D

solaris is dead (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338111)

netcruft confirms it....

Solaris doesn't suck... (5, Insightful)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338113)

(In case the first post is modded down to hell, that's what it said :-)

The market for Solaris is very different from Linux, it's datacentre-land, not home user. I still don't see it lasting too long though... One of the microsoft lines that really is true is that Linux is a larger threat to Unix than to MS, at the moment (MS forgot the 'at the moment' bit :-)

Two wars: The desktop and the datacentre. Despite the cliche of fighting a war on two fronts, Linux is porbably uniquely positioned to fight a war on N fronts (where N is a positive, large integer). The way it's set up is to leverage groups of people whilst folding the advances back into the core.

SGI are turning to Linux, Sun will too. There'll be a few releases of both OS's first, though, IMHO.

Simon.

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338147)

I use Gentoo, how does this effect me??

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338190)

That's because Linux is free! Stupid jews you can't compete with free no matter how shitty/continually broken Linux is. Fuckin'A linux just rips off bits from solaris and Windows and gives it away for free. STupid 3rd world monkeys who are already stealing US jobs gobble up linux because it's free stupid ass wipes. And even then linux accounts for only 1% of all OS's that query google bahahahahah stupid shit barf bags sit here and circle jerk to linux is the best while windows and solaris continue to dominate in the real world!

baahahahah

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (3, Interesting)

zz99 (742545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338277)

> SGI are turning to Linux, Sun will too. There'll be a few releases of both OS's first, though, IMHO.

There is the same story with the Sun hardware... the Ultrasparc architecture. It is hard for one company to keep up with development of their own CPU's for long. The latest word has been that they have put new core's on the ice, and instead try to spinn on the ones they already have.

It is hard to compete with the main stream hardware, and at the desktop it's definitely impossible to beat x86 at best bang for the buck. Soon it will be hard for Sun to beat them at best performance at all (performance regardess of price).

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (4, Interesting)

__past__ (542467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338363)

There are rumors that Sun might join forces with Fujitsu Siemens, i.e. closer collaboration of the UltraSparc and SPARC64 design teams. This would seem like a pretty smart move - if you make your processor arch publicly available, you might as well try to benefit from it. Two independent groups developing 64bit sparcs for servers is a little wastefull, and maintaining an alternative architecture is hard enough.

Well, AMD... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338407)

There have been some rumors that AMD/Opteron is a possible position for Sun, but the practical difficulty in a 8-way and up machines with the Opteron is probably a significant limiting factor in that path.

I have a feeling Sun doesn't know what they hell they're going to do about a CPU.

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (4, Interesting)

dbIII (701233) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338291)

The market for Solaris is very different from Linux, it's datacentre-land, not home user.
Linux is still a long way behind Solaris with things like NFS - massive speed differences. A home user isn't going to care much about NFS, which is probably the main reason why NFS still sucks under linux (though not so much in 2.6). I'm sure there's other things as well.

One of the microsoft lines that really is true is that Linux is a larger threat to Unix than to MS
I disagree. Linux is a bigger threat in server space, you have to remember that even after a decade NT et al are the upstart operating systems that have steadily been getting commodity PC hardware into server space - linux challenges that head on by providing a solid multiuser OS that runs on PC hardware, and does it much better than the steadily improving NT operating systems. You only run a Microsoft operating system if you want to run the programs that come with that platform or if you want to use cheap PC hardware as a server. Linux does threaten Microsoft in that way, and I suspect that has contibuted to them improving their software (security patches when they didn't care about them before, and the numerous new features in longhorn).

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (5, Insightful)

jadel (746203) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338398)

Note the following is my opinion, I don't claim to have all the answers or any more insight than regularly reading IT news...
The biggest difference (IMNSHO) between the open source community (including what is commonly referred to as the Linux community) and Microsoft is cultural. MS is a marketing driven organisation - features are chosen and development is directed based on what will shift boxes - even the current security initiatives are aimed at minimizing the amount of damage the reputation of the company was incurring due to its repeated and high profile security problems.
OSS projects seem to come in a huge range of styles and with a similarly huge number of objectives, however there is a larger emphasis on technical merit. Linus has a reputation for being draconian in what he will allow into the kernel, he is entirely willing to throw patches away that don't meet his standards no matter how wonderful the functionality they provide may be.
The result of this is that although OSS is generally not as "shiny" as MS products tend to be, it seems to be built on a much more solid foundation. Whether that is enough of an advantage for it to take a sizeable bite out of MS' market share remains to be seen.
Of course MS also seem to be their own biggest enemy. The new licensing arrangements and product activation seem to be designed to make life difficult for businesses. Likewise the way they seem to alternate between smear campaigns against Linux and running scared any time a business talks about moving there desktops over to an OSS solution has been raising the profile of alternatives to people who would not have otherwise heard of them.
Truly we live in interesting times (in both senses of the phrase.)

Sun/Solaris will survive (4, Insightful)

Moderation abuser (184013) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338345)

In the datacenter for a good while yet. Several years, at least 3 and probably longer. Basically the hardware is better than Intel for the non sparcified PC clones anyway. Bigger caches, more I/O, more memory bandwidth etc. Linux isn't yet trusted on this stuff and it won't kill Solaris off until 3-5 years after it is trusted on the big iron.

I have no problem with Solaris and Linux side by side and neither do the management. We are actively and with prejudice trying to kill off HP-UX as soon as possible though.

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (1, Insightful)

bangular (736791) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338361)

I tend to agree. Solaris isn't a bad operating system... the need for it is fading though. Who _needs_ Solaris boxes on Sun hardware anymore? x86 servers can reasonably serve thousands and thousands of users these days. Sun hardware just isn't as attractive as it once was. I think as far as database servers they still have a very nice competitive edge, but as x86 hardware becomes more powerful and gets more of the features of Sun hardware (lower latency) we will see Sun hardware become even less pervasive. Sun boxes are nice, but most really can't justify the cost.

Re:Solaris doesn't suck... (2, Funny)

)-(ellbilly (711798) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338522)

Well I just picked up a SUn Enterprise E4000 for 640 bux! Gonna put it in my basement and rule the world...errr underworld.

But seriously, ebay/sun/solaris is perfect way to run a small home or business op. Friends/family all have nice relaiable web and email services cheap and I have a place to play with my root.

Cheers,
)-(ellbilly

No closed crap on my computers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338117)

This abomination will never come anywhere near the computers I'm using at home or at work.

shut the fuck up. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338186)

Your computer's BIOS is closed-source. There's also a lot of closed firmware in your perhiperals. Not to mention the software that runs your car.. calculator.. bedside alarm clock.. furnace thermostat.. checkstand at the grocery store.. wow. If you think about it, there's a lot of closed source stuff that could potentially fuck up your life worse than your PC locking up.

Oh, the horror! There's only one way out - you must bludgeon yourself immediately with a surgical 2x4! Although I'd settle for you never using a computer ever again in the rest of your miserable life.

You must be some kind of fucking lunatic (Linuxtic? Lunixtic?) with far too much time on your hands if you've actually read and audited the source code to every piece of software that you're using. If you've not actually done this for every single software component of every single machine that you use (which is the most likely scenario):

SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP.

Re:shut the fuck up. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338224)

At least I'm trying not to be a serf to greedy corporations...

You've clearly accepted that role and will gladly bend over when SCO comes asking for their $699.

Fucking cocksucking teabagger.

Hopefully (1, Insightful)

REBloomfield (550182) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338122)

Hopefully this will be a better release than 9 was, which should really have been called 8.5. Apart from the addition of the god-awful GNOME desktop, the best things in 9 were the improved hardware support. Other than that, I can't say I was much impressed.

Re:Hopefully (5, Insightful)

fr0dicus (641320) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338145)

Yeah, apart from the much larger breadth of GNU tools, ssh and much higher performing threading model, 9 really sucked.

Re:Hopefully (1)

REBloomfield (550182) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338153)

If GNU tools and SSH aren't what you need, then you aren't going to be doing cartwheels about them now are you?

Re:Hopefully (2, Funny)

fr0dicus (641320) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338159)

Do you hate having a large improvement in threaded performance too?

Re:Hopefully (1)

REBloomfield (550182) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338174)

yeah, you should have me on the phone to Sun. I was kicking ass all over the shop.

But know we're being silly :)

Re:Hopefully (1)

khuber (5664) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338299)

Solaris 8 has the alternate thread library /usr/lib/lwp/libthread.so, it's just not the default.

Re:Hopefully (1)

DebianRcksLindowsLie (752247) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338267)

EXACTLY. You probably only like bleeding edge changes and the ability to do things yourself if they're not provided. Oh wait, that's Debian. Which can be as stable or as unstable as you like. :-) Your choice, but you have to put the effort in.

To find out more about Debian, go to Debian.org [debian.org]. To find out more about those trying to kill Debian off, read my sig and homepage.

god-awful GNOME? (4, Insightful)

AmVidia HQ (572086) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338230)

Apart from the addition of the god-awful GNOME desktop

Don't know if your flaimbait was intentional or not, but you should have at least elaborated on why it's "god-awful". In my opinion, Gnome is far less awful than CDE. And although it is less feature-rich and configurable than KDE, its behaviour seems more consistent. That is what businesses and Solaris' market wants. Assuming that KDE is your awe inspiring desktop of course.

Sun's move from CDE to Gnome is a good move, if not from Solaris to Linux completely.

Newsflash (2, Funny)

Moderation abuser (184013) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338262)

Early in the morning CDE suffered a fatal heart attack and died during the night. It has finally been laid to rest. Nobody turned up to the funeral.

That's CDE on Solaris 8 -> Gnome Solaris 9 and the users love it. Needs a bit of stability tweaking though it isn't bad. Also a current revision would be nice.

Re:god-awful GNOME? (2, Funny)

zz99 (742545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338360)

> And although it is less feature-rich and configurable than KDE, its behaviour seems more consistent. That is what businesses and Solaris' market wants.

That's right, Sun should keep KDE away from Solaris boxes. Experienced CDE-users could have a breakdown if they are suddenly exposed to a desktop with more than four settings :)

Re:Hopefully (1)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338479)

Hopefully this will be a better release than 9 was, which should really have been called 8.5.

Gosh, I'm still installing Solaris 8 when I rebuild boxes. I like being able to keep one OS level across all my machines to make patching easier. God only knows Solaris's patch tracking and automated update support is completely worthless. I tried their Patch Pro crap but most of the patches it wants to apply require a maintenance contract. Makes me want to wipe them all and try Linux on these boxes. At least Debian would be easy to keep up to date... err... apt-get'd.

Gnome ? (1)

noselasd (594905) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338124)

What about Gnome ?
Will the next Solaris version ship Gnome as the default desktop ?
And also important, what are the Solaris users opinion on Gnome(vs CDE) ?

Re:Gnome ? (1)

REBloomfield (550182) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338140)

Can't stand it!! Prefer KDE. Was disappointed to see no CDE improvements. It would great if it was brought up to date.

Re:Gnome ? (4, Interesting)

zz99 (742545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338195)

I'm using Solaris at work, and I'm no fan of Gnome, but compared with CDE I'll pick it any day. ...in reality I'm actually running KDE 3.2, installed in my home directory :)

Re:Gnome ? (1)

sadangel (702907) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338375)

License issues aside, I love CDE. I think it's a far more intuitive in organization and interface than Gnome or KDE. These two suffer from trying to duplicate the MS desktop, which is only intuitive to most because it has been force-fed to them for years. A prime example is the Gnome/KDE equivalent of that accursed start button. *grinds teeth* <rant>The start button serves only as a marketing tool to make computers look like simple one-button machines that any idiot can use.</rant> *whew!*

My first exposure to *nix was a Solaris machine and the CDE really opened my eyes to the different possabilities available outside of the wintel world. I'm disappointed that Sun, along with the rest of the world, seems to be abandoning it.

Re:Gnome ? (1)

__past__ (542467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338384)

The current version of Solaris 9 already installs Gnome by default - it is not the "default desktop", but only because users have to choose it from a dropdown list in the login screen. I doubt that Sun will drop it again, after all the work they put in it.

IMHO, the Solaris Gnome is not too pretty. Some stuff doesn't work right, and integration with Solaris tools is not as good as it is in CDE. Of course, CDE is not the perfect desktop either, so the main advantage is that now you can choose the way in which you are annoyed. Then again, nobody expects Solaris to be OS X.

XBox rules!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338132)

first post!!! you lame assholes... I can post first because my XBox is a american product and my pride in my great country and my great XBox accelerate everything...

If only they would make games for that bitch... IAve played Metroid Prime and it ruled... I hope M$ will buy those japanese bastards and port Metroid to my great american console system!!!

Join the fun!!! [slashdot.org]

Do you know gamespy.slashdot.org??? [slashdot.org]

What does she know ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338136)

She is a girl.

Program? (4, Funny)

NicolaiBSD (460297) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338141)

It covers how the program works

But can you run this program called Solaris 10 on Linux? Or do you need wine for that?

Solaris touched my kernel liberally! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338148)

[touchedmyjunk.com]
solaris touched my kernel liberally. she strapped me in to her solarmobile and she couldnt keep her offensive hands off of me. she was performing many red flag touches. i couldnt believe what the fuck was going on. i told solaris the city would not approve of an Operating system touching an underage penguin for free.
it doesn't help at all that solaris has been spun out after touching everyone's junk. she can hardly see straight after touching SCO's diseased kernel. how is she possibly going to explain this to the city when she doesnt help the next operating in distress? they'll make her drop trou in front of the whole city again. there it is. the mayor just called and asked why solaris hasn't responded. she has to go.

Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (4, Insightful)

justanyone (308934) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338176)


I know this is a trivial thing, but it's a real pain in the butt to have to use ksh all the time because most Solaris boxen I've worked on don't have Bash installed by default.

The same goes for OpenSSL [openssl.org] and a bunch of other tools that would be great to have but that I cannot count on being there.

On the other front, having Gnome [gnome.org] as a gui readily available is definitely deserving of kudos. If only I had more than ssh access to most of the boxes I work with, I could actually use it. We have Hummingbird [hummingbird.com] Exceed, but it's such a HUGE pain to set up. Neither myself, a reasonably good programmer, nor any of the sysadmins at the very large bank where I work know how to set it up.

Alas.

-- Kevin J. Rice

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338192)

I personally hope that sun will bundle apt-get and synaptic for Solaris. I love that feature so much on Linux that I hope sun sees the light and let us have it too.

You can download it for solaris here [n00bz.net], but I really want sun to bundle it.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (4, Informative)

benwb (96829) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338196)

Solaris 9 has ssh by default, so I can only assume that 10 will as well.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338204)

don't have Bash installed by default.

Solaris 7 and later. No, it's not by "default" (eg: part of the Core Software Configuration Cluster) but it's on every Solaris 8 box I've ever used.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (4, Informative)

stephenbooth (172227) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338213)

If you're not averse to free software then I suggest you try Cygwin (http://www.cygwin.com/). It's a lot easier to set up than Hummbingbird eXeed. It's also free. I've been using it for a few years now to get X access to remote *nix boxen, never had any problems cos it's easy to setup and use. And did I mention that, unliek Hummingbird eXeed, it's free?

Stephen

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1)

jadel (746203) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338280)

I can second this. The University I work at has a number of unix machines used for data analysis, in the past we have used both exceed and xwin with at best mixed results. We are now starting to use Xfree running under cygwin because it just works significantly better.
Cygwin can also use openssh to tunnel an X session from machines that only have the secure shell port open - a function that seems to be missing from many windows Xservers. note: this may require the use of the -X (enable X forwarding) option depending on your ssh config.
Finally if you want to get really cute you can use XDMCP to get a full Unix desktop running in your X session.

You can download Bash, OpenSSL (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338215)

most Solaris boxen I've worked on don't have Bash installed by default.
A very quick download and one commandline later and you have bash. You don't even have to use ksh to run the package command, you can do it via csh if you prefer.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (5, Informative)

larien (5608) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338218)

Hrm:

# pkginfo SUNWbash
system SUNWbash GNU Bourne-Again shell (bash)

Perhaps not always installed by default, but it is available. That's on Solaris 8, BTW. As for other stuff, check out www.sunfreeware.com [sunfreeware.com]

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1, Redundant)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338430)

Is that on one of the Solaris install CDs? Or is it just available from sunfreeware?

A couple years back, I worked at a mid-size datacenter that used Sun boxes almost exclusively (Solaris 2.6 and 7), and as far as I remember, we had to manually install bash (meaning, there wasn't an option during install to install it).

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338240)

Can't speak for OpenSSL, but bash is certainly there in Solaris Express:

% uname -srv
SunOS 5.10 s10_49
% which bash
/usr/bin/bash
%

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (5, Informative)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338249)

I know this is a trivial thing, but it's a real pain in the butt to have to use ksh all the time because most Solaris boxen I've worked on don't have Bash installed by default.

We keep a local sunfreeware mirror for new sunos installs. Bash, updated Perl with modules, wget, lynx, openssl, bzip, sudo, lsof, openssh, and ncftp. (no gcc) If it wasn't for sunfreeware [sunfreeware.com], I'd go nuts using Solaris. Anyone that has to move/push/alter data, needs common tools on all platforms, thank god for Sunfreeware.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1)

__past__ (542467) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338420)

Another relatively painless way to install lots of free software on Solaris is the NetBSD pkgsrc collection [pkgsrc.org] (what the other BSDs call "ports"). Like NetBSD itself, an important goal is portability, and in its case the result is that it is not actually NetBSD-specific and works on many other OSes, including Solaris.

The only drawback is that it doesn't integrate with the Solaris-native package management scheme, it uses its own database and utilities. It is also not a good idea to use it with the Sunfreeware GCC, one should use the pkgsrc version (after bootstrapping it with the one from sunfreeware)..

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (4, Informative)

Gollum (35049) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338261)

ssh access is all you really need to execute X11 commands. Install Cygwin and Xfree86 if Exceed is too complex. Then SSH in to the box, and check what your DISPLAY variable is set to (echo $DISPLAY). It should point back to your IP address (or hostname), followed by :0.0

if it is not, do "export DISPLAY=your.ip:0.0" and execute an xterm, or start gnome, or do whatever you want to.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1)

v01d (122215) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338285)

As others have pointed out ksh is part of Solaris's default install. In fact I can say for sure if a 9 box doesn't have have bash it's because the admin specifically removed it.

Furthermore I hate installing a Linux machine because they never come with a proper ksh. I've never met an admin who prefers bash, and frankly the people who do prefer bash tend to be new to Unix and not familiar with anything other than Linux. Maybe that makes me elitist, but hey this is /. :)

Hope they have Minesweeper and Internet explorer (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338290)

Come on, all my Windows boxes have Minesweeper and Internet explorer! Boy, does Solaris suck because it doesn't have [ADD MY OWN FAVORITE L33N0XX SOFTWARE] installed in the default installation! Woohoo!!!!111

Besides, you got the facts wrong since it DOES have the bloody bash installed by default nowadays. Sigh. Lignuxers.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338302)

The same goes for OpenSSL

Why should it? How many servers need OpenSSL installed, let alone installed by default? Yes, it's optionally available.

We have Hummingbird Exceed, but it's such a HUGE pain to set up. Neither myself, a reasonably good programmer, nor any of the sysadmins at the very large bank where I work know how to set it up.

/usr/X/bin/xterm -sb -sl 5000 -display @D -T `hostname`. Start method is rexec

I won't comment on the bash statement as many already have.

Looks like between you (the users) and the sysadmins your place of work is full of cluebags. Where do you work? I would like to know so I never work there.

Hummingbird (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338317)

Hummingbird really does (or did) have a great product. I do recall having to read the manual 2 or 3 times to finally figure out how to get it properly installed, and another time to figure out the CL flags to make it connect. Once set up, it's great. (Small solace in your situation). It took 3 guys about 4 days to get Hummingbird properly setup the first time (from us knowing nothing about it initially). Also a couple of calls to their tech support line (turns out a CL flag was missing from the manual, very helpful). This was with Exceed 5.x (so it was a while ago). Good luck.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1)

opk (149665) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338329)

Solaris tends to have an old version of zsh installed. It's zsh 3 which is way behind zsh 4 but at least as featureful as the latest bash. Certainly its a lot nicer than ksh88. From Solaris 8 or so, they come with bash anyway. I just hope they update to zsh 4 in Solaris 10.

Re:Hope they have Bash, OpenSSL (1)

prefect42 (141309) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338411)

You're right eXceed is completely impossible to setup. Run Exceed. Run putty with X forwarding. Use X.

Pointless cheer squad posts (-1, Redundant)

gentoo_is_bogus (754705) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338187)

Opinions are just as divided over this OS as any other. Posting "It's nice" "no really" type comments is a waste of everyones time.

SunOS, anyone? (-1, Interesting)

oujirou (726570) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338248)

That reminds me how we tried to get ourselves a couple of V100s and got one V250 instead while our distributor was shipping our lil' V100s here.

And when they finally got them here, one of the V100s did not boot. It did all the nifty console bootstrapping and stuff, but didn't want to boot from the supposedly preinstalled SunOS on HDD or even from the installation CD.

But it had a built-in FORTH interpreter! It could download a program off the local network and run it!

That's it, we almost ended up with a network-enabled FORTH compiler that cost us $1500.

I'm still glad we didn't wait for tech support to react (and I'm pretty sure it would take them several more weeks) to this and just pulled the cover off the V100 and found out there was something wrong with jumpers on the HDD.

By the way, the insides of a low-end-but-still-so-expensive Sun machine are so-o-o cheap, like IDE Seagate drives... why do they charge so much for them?

Re:SunOS, anyone? (2, Interesting)

zz99 (742545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338342)

> By the way, the insides of a low-end-but-still-so-expensive Sun machine are so-o-o cheap, like IDE Seagate drives... why do they charge so much for them?

I agree. Especially if it is something they call a "server".

Although traditionally Sun called everything shipped without a graphics card for server. Back in the Sparc days a sparc4 server was cheaper than a sparc4 workstation. Same box basically, but one of them didnt have the graphics card..

Anyway, I have found that the low end workstations in their product line are really sad. IDE drives and terrible graphic cards. If you want something with the performance of a even semi-modern PC (P4 2.6 GHz) you have to buy a SunBlade 150+, and then shell out for a good enough graphics card just to get deacent 2D. Thats 2-3 times the price of the PC. And it's still not a high performer, just "almost-modern"

Re:SunOS, anyone? (2, Interesting)

oujirou (726570) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338426)

All that, and don't forget it runs Solaris, thus making it almost impossible to use.

I've been using Unix-clones (BSD and Linux, now happy with SuSE) here and there for almost seven years now, not counting my first brief encounter with a real UNIX on a mainframe circa 1990. I've also read and highly recommend others to read The Unix Haters Handbook [microsoft.com]. Reading it in 2004 makes one cry over Windows that repeated the same mistakes all over again (note where the book resides), and, what's more important, it clearly shows that Suns have never become better ever since.

Personally I vote for two x86 servers at the cost of one SPARC.

Re:SunOS, anyone? (5, Insightful)

chegosaurus (98703) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338396)

> And when they finally got them here, one of
> the V100s did not boot.

> That's it, we almost ended up with a
> network-enabled FORTH compiler that cost us
> $1500.

My friend bought a new car, and the dealership accidentally gave him the wrong set of keys. That was it, he almost ended up with a sealed glass and metal box that cost him $35000.

One little tiny, easily rectified mistake does not mean the product sucks. If someone dismissed linux because they bought a preinstalled box which didn't boot because of a wrong jumper, would that mean linux was crappy? No. Of course not.

> I'm still glad we didn't wait for tech support
> to react (and I'm pretty sure it would take
> them several more weeks)

Have you ever *used* Sun support? To answer your later question, that's one of the reasons Sun are so expensive. They have great support. If you were on a decent support contract there could have been a guy with you inside an hour with a bag full of V100 parts. If you don't need support, go with linux/bsd or buy Sun kit off ebay.

Once more, FUD-ish Sun-bashing gets modded up as interesting/informative. Replies which dare to defend Sun are usually modded down. Flamebait, troll, whatever. (They should have a "-1 heresy" tag.)

Re:SunOS, anyone? (1)

oujirou (726570) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338499)

I can understand your feelings as a loyal Sun devotee, but sorry, we only need Suns to do some development for one of our clients. I do not feel oblidged to praise them at all. :)

And yes, not only we know everything about their support, we even have. Believe me, they wouldn't automagically be here in an hour. Not even in a day. In Soviet Russia support techs you, and the Sun's is not an exception.

Not to mention that the best way around is when you do not need any support at all.

devfs (3, Funny)

binford2k (142561) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338254)

Nice, Solaris is getting devfs support . . . just as it is marked deprecated in Linux 2.6

Re:devfs (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338466)

Nice, Solaris is getting devfs support . . . just as it is marked deprecated in Linux 2.6

Solaris lack of change is one of the main reasons why it's so damn stable as an OS. They do not want to be like Linux where there is a new API every year. A new API or new low level things are not bad per-se but it's something else that needs to be debugged, something else that needs to be learned and something else that may not be compatible with current software.

Case in point: Oracle on Linux, or any commercial application for that matter. The reason Oracle is only certifed for RHAS is because it's very static. They don't have to verify it works with 50 different kernels and 50 different version of GLIBC. When you have to support your software in situations like this it can be costly not only in terms of money and manhours but also performance and proving customer support. This applies to almost any big name commercial software including BEA's WebLogic and IBM's Tivoli suite.

That's why Solaris is known for and maintains it's rock solid reputation. Sometimes, staying off the bleeding, or just the leading edge is a good thing.

Re:devfs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338495)

solaris 10 looks pretty bleeding edge to me; alot of this stuff (like dtrace and nfsv4) isn't in linux yet

Re:devfs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338514)

nfs4v is in linux. i've never heard of dtrace outside of solaris.

DTrace (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338283)

DTrace definitely seems to be worth checking out. As the article indicates, more info is available here [sun.com].
As the article does not indicate -- but it seems to be worth mentioning -- DTrace was introduced in a comp.unix.solaris post here [google.com]. Seems pretty damn cool...

Re:DTrace (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338347)

spiffy. looks like they took every other tracing thing, and then threw them all away and made something worth use. can't wait to try this.

more power to them (5, Insightful)

nuckin futs (574289) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338298)

Any OS that is out there that can take away from the 90%+ market share that Microsoft holds is a good thing.
Of course Microsoft's market share won't go down if this OS just replaces one *nix variant with another, but that's another story.

Fire Engine (5, Interesting)

zz99 (742545) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338435)

The register has an old story [theregister.co.uk] about the new TCP/IP stack in Solaris 10, that is good reading.

A quick summary of the story:

The new stack has:
- Efficient at handling multiple NICs
- Low CPU usage (30% lower than Linux)
- Build for targeting 10/100 Gbps in the future. Has a new construction where it is possible to offload the cpu by routing packet to dedicated packet processing processors.

The last part seems like a preparation for the Sun hardware of tomorrow.

Software vs. Hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338453)

Does anyone really care about the Solaris (Sparc) software when the Sun Sparc hardware is trailing so hopelessly behind in the price vs. performance area? It may be solid and stabile and so forth but wouldn't it make sense as the software becomes more complex and requires more of the hardware to take a look at what's being offered to run this software on?

cool feature i am using (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338473)

i try with solaris express and I find a cool feature called "ppriv" like this:

gta3# ppriv $$
1124: bash
flags = 0x0
E: all
I: basic
P: all
L: all

Ok, so I am root I have all privileges I think

but now look at rpcbind, it is runnign as daemon but has less priviliges even than normal processes

gta3# ppriv 100182
100182: /usr/sbin/rpcbind
flags = 0x2
E: net_privaddr,proc_fork,sys_nfs
I: none
P: net_privaddr,proc_fork,sys_nfs
L: all

see, it does not have privilege to do 'exec'... there are 30 or more privileges and it has only 3. So i guess this means some stack attack will not work against it like exec shell

also i can run and see privileges like thids

gta3$ ppriv -D -e cat /etc/shadow
cat[100619]: missing privilege "file_dac_read" (euid = 77293, syscall = 225) needed at ufs_iaccess+0xd2
cat: cannot open /etc/shadow

not sure what this means?

Re:cool feature i am using (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8338516)

that looks very usefull. maybe it's the implementation of this point from the article?

"Solaris Express is moving from always requiring superuser rights to a privilege-based model. The system now restricts processes to only those privileges that are required to perform the current task. This results in the vulnerability of fewer root processes and the reduction in the number of setuid root programs."

Another intro to Solaris 10 (4, Interesting)

ChrisRijk (1818) | more than 10 years ago | (#8338519)

Ace's Hardware had a post about Solaris 10 [aceshardware.com] back in November.

There is an alternative introduction on the main Solaris 10 page [sun.com] too. Eg:
N1 Grid Containers is a breakthrough approach to virtualization with multiple software partitions per single instance of the OS. N1 Grid Containers make consolidation simple, safe and secure.


* Superior Resource Utilization. N1 Grid Containers dynamically adjust resources to business goals within and across the container. With little management overhead (less than 1%), it offers over 4,000 containers per system.
* Increased Uptime. With N1 Grid Containers, applications are isolated from each other and from system faults. Using Instant Restart, each Container can be restarted in just seconds. Boot time in large systems can be reduced by as much as 70%.
* Reduced Costs. N1 Grid Containers simplifies and accelerates consolidation. It also significantly reduces system, admin and maintenance overhead.


The containers (previous called Solaris Zones) can also each have their own root password and own IP address, as well as min/max/QoS resource settings.
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