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HardOCP Sues Infinium Over Legal Threats

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the fun-fun-fun dept.

The Courts 326

Cebu writes "According to GameSpot, in a less than surprising move, Kyle Bennett of tech website HardOCP has decided to file a lawsuit against Infinium Labs, makers of the forthcoming Phantom PC-based 'console'. On February 27, a lawsuit was filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division under the Declaratory Judgment Act to force the issue of Infinium Labs' repeated legal threats against HardOCP for an allegedly defamatory article written last year."

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Lawyer Central? (4, Insightful)

IamGarageGuy 2 (687655) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459504)

Has /. become a place where the geeks talk law?

Re:Lawyer Central? (5, Funny)

gatesh8r (182908) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459523)

Slashdot has now become... Grokdot! (er... well we could make it Slashlaw, but...)

Re:Lawyer Central? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459567)

>> Slashdot has now become... Grokdot! (er... well we could make it Slashlaw, but...)

SlashGrok would be better. I'm not sure what symbols you would use to represent it, though, both /? and /! don't look quite right.

Am I the only one... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459743)

who read the heading as HardCOCK sues Infinium?

In Soviet Russia, YOU sue John Kerry!

1. John Kerry sues Infinium
2. ???
3. Profit!!!

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of John Kerrys suing HardOCP

FACT: Infinium is dying!

John Kerry hates the GNAA!

Re:Lawyer Central? (0, Flamebait)

Night Goat (18437) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459549)

Yeah, no kidding. I think I'm going to go and change my preferences so they don't show all this law stuff. A bit is interesting, but when you have simoniker posting three law articles in a row, fuck it, I don't need that. If I cared that much about law, I'd be a lawyer.

Re:Lawyer Central? (1)

PacoTaco (577292) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459582)

I think it's slow news day stuff. Some company is always suing some other company, so it's not hard to fill the gaps with lawsuit news. Personally I find these stories the least interesting part of Slashdot.

Re:Lawyer Central? (5, Insightful)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459650)

This isn't about law, it's about RIGHTS. I think most of us don't care (too much) about the particulars of the lawsuit but DO care that Infinium Labs is trying to silence HardOCP.com for posting a well-researched article that happens to go against what Infinium wants people to think about them.

I think the point is that the truth is more important than an company's PR issues.

Re:Lawyer Central? (0, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459806)

Well-researched? HardOCP admitted [hardocp.com] that there were a few mistakes in their first article.

Re:Lawyer Central? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459661)

i don't even know what the hell this story is about. the whole title and summary looked confusing. so i'll jjust lslam on my keyboaurd

aw98h84b wbha98bphbe gud dhn 0[e8ab84h5 t98q435q30h534q8hjq3450b[hjqwert4[0bnjer[o njmsdfp'g mnsert9ibnhj24rtu 23b598yuhw40 hnuw9shjt wq[4b40wt hqwt4e 9obhq4et90 hqe4t9pnhq4et9bhetoihbafiuhgrhjgqeriyh348943752340 98572340957234yn 58gh 4yhn82q5p92q4hn9ph889hw49e tn49e8tn np9e4twa8498t498p t498 ueighhheguheugh;a8498wp5hb94hberuijghaskdfjlghasdk lfhasdkljf94835r348975092384759283407yutdwhjfsdajh faskjdhfakjsdh2398u547y129834uy5r 3t329q4pt3q49g3p9yg3q4 8q3443q 34y9qp739p38749p839qp543954qp35u9pyu45p9q 34p98yq49p38u4t98pqu 4p89qu90[348yu34q p[9834qup[gyuq309[g8yuqg90herpovhzxcnvzklcxvbnopaw gu4p8h98g t3219p84 yg34p9uy43 90qp3hgqp[0qp 9ghqp48yu p439843 t843p9 p34ut8403[2 u 34qyb43 b
u9q38y39qpg4gh3q4p93qgp939prur

now i'll copy and paste it 6 times

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u9q38y39qpg4gh3q4p93qgp939prur
aw98h84b wbha98bphbe gud dhn 0[e8ab84h5 t98q435q30h534q8hjq3450b[hjqwert4[0bnjer[o njmsdfp'g mnsert9ibnhj24rtu 23b598yuhw40 hnuw9shjt wq[4b40wt hqwt4e 9obhq4et90 hqe4t9pnhq4et9bhetoihbafiuhgrhjgqeriyh348943752340 98572340957234yn 58gh 4yhn82q5p92q4hn9ph889hw49e tn49e8tn np9e4twa8498t498p t498 ueighhheguheugh;a8498wp5hb94hberuijghaskdfjlghasdk lfhasdkljf94835r348975092384759283407yutdwhjfsdajh faskjdhfakjsdh2398u547y129834uy5r 3t329q4pt3q49g3p9yg3q4 8q3443q 34y9qp739p38749p839qp543954qp35u9pyu45p9q 34p98yq49p38u4t98pqu 4p89qu90[348yu34q p[9834qup[gyuq309[g8yuqg90herpovhzxcnvzklcxvbnopaw gu4p8h98g t3219p84 yg34p9uy43 90qp3hgqp[0qp 9ghqp48yu p439843 t843p9 p34ut8403[2 u 34qyb43 b
u9q38y39qpg4gh3q4p93qgp939prur
aw98h84b wbha98bphbe gud dhn 0[e8ab84h5 t98q435q30h534q8hjq3450b[hjqwert4[0bnjer[o njmsdfp'g mnsert9ibnhj24rtu 23b598yuhw40 hnuw9shjt wq[4b40wt hqwt4e 9obhq4et90 hqe4t9pnhq4et9bhetoihbafiuhgrhjgqeriyh348943752340 98572340957234yn 58gh 4yhn82q5p92q4hn9ph889hw49e tn49e8tn np9e4twa8498t498p t498 ueighhheguheugh;a8498wp5hb94hberuijghaskdfjlghasdk lfhasdkljf94835r348975092384759283407yutdwhjfsdajh faskjdhfakjsdh2398u547y129834uy5r 3t329q4pt3q49g3p9yg3q4 8q3443q 34y9qp739p38749p839qp543954qp35u9pyu45p9q 34p98yq49p38u4t98pqu 4p89qu90[348yu34q p[9834qup[gyuq309[g8yuqg90herpovhzxcnvzklcxvbnopaw gu4p8h98g t3219p84 yg34p9uy43 90qp3hgqp[0qp 9ghqp48yu p439843 t843p9 p34ut8403[2 u 34qyb43 b
u9q38y39qpg4gh3q4p93qgp939prur
aw98h84b wbha98bphbe gud dhn 0[e8ab84h5 t98q435q30h534q8hjq3450b[hjqwert4[0bnjer[o njmsdfp'g mnsert9ibnhj24rtu 23b598yuhw40 hnuw9shjt wq[4b40wt hqwt4e 9obhq4et90 hqe4t9pnhq4et9bhetoihbafiuhgrhjgqeriyh348943752340 98572340957234yn 58gh 4yhn82q5p92q4hn9ph889hw49e tn49e8tn np9e4twa8498t498p t498 ueighhheguheugh;a8498wp5hb94hberuijghaskdfjlghasdk lfhasdkljf94835r348975092384759283407yutdwhjfsdajh faskjdhfakjsdh2398u547y129834uy5r 3t329q4pt3q49g3p9yg3q4 8q3443q 34y9qp739p38749p839qp543954qp35u9pyu45p9q 34p98yq49p38u4t98pqu 4p89qu90[348yu34q p[9834qup[gyuq309[g8yuqg90herpovhzxcnvzklcxvbnopaw gu4p8h98g t3219p84 yg34p9uy43 90qp3hgqp[0qp 9ghqp48yu p439843 t843p9 p34ut8403[2 u 34qyb43 b
u9q38y39qpg4gh3q4p93qgp939prur
aw98h84b wbha98bphbe gud dhn 0[e8ab84h5 t98q435q30h534q8hjq3450b[hjqwert4[0bnjer[o njmsdfp'g mnsert9ibnhj24rtu 23b598yuhw40 hnuw9shjt wq[4b40wt hqwt4e 9obhq4et90 hqe4t9pnhq4et9bhetoihbafiuhgrhjgqeriyh348943752340 98572340957234yn 58gh 4yhn82q5p92q4hn9ph889hw49e tn49e8tn np9e4twa8498t498p t498 ueighhheguheugh;a8498wp5hb94hberuijghaskdfjlghasdk lfhasdkljf94835r348975092384759283407yutdwhjfsdajh faskjdhfakjsdh2398u547y129834uy5r 3t329q4pt3q49g3p9yg3q4 8q3443q 34y9qp739p38749p839qp543954qp35u9pyu45p9q 34p98yq49p38u4t98pqu 4p89qu90[348yu34q p[9834qup[gyuq309[g8yuqg90herpovhzxcnvzklcxvbnopaw gu4p8h98g t3219p84 yg34p9uy43 90qp3hgqp[0qp 9ghqp48yu p439843 t843p9 p34ut8403[2 u 34qyb43 b
u9q38y39qpg4gh3q4p93qgp939prur
aw98h84b wbha98bphbe gud dhn 0[e8ab84h5 t98q435q30h534q8hjq3450b[hjqwert4[0bnjer[o njmsdfp'g mnsert9ibnhj24rtu 23b598yuhw40 hnuw9shjt wq[4b40wt hqwt4e 9obhq4et90 hqe4t9pnhq4et9bhetoihbafiuhgrhjgqeriyh348943752340 98572340957234yn 58gh 4yhn82q5p92q4hn9ph889hw49e tn49e8tn np9e4twa8498t498p t498 ueighhheguheugh;a8498wp5hb94hberuijghaskdfjlghasdk lfhasdkljf94835r348975092384759283407yutdwhjfsdajh faskjdhfakjsdh2398u547y129834uy5r 3t329q4pt3q49g3p9yg3q4 8q3443q 34y9qp739p38749p839qp543954qp35u9pyu45p9q 34p98yq49p38u4t98pqu 4p89qu90[348yu34q p[9834qup[gyuq309[g8yuqg90herpovhzxcnvzklcxvbnopaw gu4p8h98g t3219p84 yg34p9uy43 90qp3hgqp[0qp 9ghqp48yu p439843 t843p9 p34ut8403[2 u 34qyb43 b
u9q38y39qpg4gh3q4p93qgp939prur

Mod parent up! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459673)

This is the most insightful thing I have read on Slashdot all day!

Re:Lawyer Central? (0, Offtopic)

QEDog (610238) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459760)

don't forget Ask Slasdot, where most post start with "IANAL"

Re:Lawyer Central? (0)

criordan (733016) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459817)

Before I figured out that IANAL stood for "I Am Not A Layer", the whole "I anal" thing at the start of all those posts had me very confused.

Re:Lawyer Central? (2, Insightful)

slycer (161341) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459791)

There's always been articles like this, and, imo, always *should*..

However, they *should* fall under the YRO category and not gaming.. this has a weak weak link to gaming in any regards (I mean, who REALLY believes that Infinium is coming out??).

Litigation (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459796)

It's just that litigation is shaping the implementation of technology in an unfavorable way. Especially in the name of consumer rights and innovation in the tech sector.

i fail it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459508)

fuck simoniker, his stories are teh suxxor

Here's my view on all this: (5, Interesting)

Dr Reducto (665121) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459511)

Last night, I posted, and got flamed to a crisp for supporting Infinium Labs. People were posting my "Home Address" by looking at a review from 2000 and looking in the area for the name in my email address (BTW, way to go on noticing the date. You got the area of Maryland a little bit off because of that.). I know Infinium is a laughing stock among the Slashdot crowd, but here is what I have to say.

I think this has gone a little bit too far. HardOCP posted an article that was quite misleading. I don't think they they maliciously *lied*, but definitely misled it's readers. I personnally don't feel it warrants a Libel case, however, it goes without saying: I am not a lawyer! Infinium sent the letter saying that it didn't like the article and was going to sue, and then HardOCp decided to escalate by countersueing. I bet that HardOCP could have let the "lawsuit" slide and an out of court settlement would have happened, if anything. Now there WILL be a messy legal battle.

Additionally, I don't see how hard it is to believe in the Phantom's existence. It's just a small form factor PC tied to a VPN which is the only way to purchase games. Yes, it has VERY powerful DRM, and is Microsoft's TCPA wet-dream. If the back-end didn't come together, Infinium could still make a killing selling complete systems that compete in price with the Shuttle barebones kits. It's standard PC hardware, with a few custom add-ons to integrate the hardware&softwaresides of the DRM scheme.

[Disclaimer: Views expressed are my own and not necessarily representative of those of Infinium Labs]

Re:Here's my view on all this: (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459531)

Maybe you should stop posting on /. now.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459573)

HardOCP posted an article that was quite misleading. I don't think they they maliciously *lied*, but definitely misled it's readers.

On what points exactly do you feel that HardOCP misled their readers?

Infinium sent the letter saying that it didn't like the article and was going to sue, and then HardOCp decided to escalate by countersueing.

They didn't escalate, they just called Infinium's bluff. If I'm reading the news right, the legal action here concerns solely the matters that Infinium's original threats of legal action were based on. There is no escalation here at all, they've just moved the venue of discussion.

It's standard PC hardware, with a few custom add-ons to integrate the hardware&softwaresides of the DRM scheme.

I believe when people say the infinium doesn't exist they mean that the custom add-ons don't exist or do not have substance. I don't think anyone believes that Infinium doesn't have PC hardware.

However I also think most people who've looked closely at what Infinium is saying believe that in the screenshot Infinium distributed where there's the kid playing Quake 3 on a TV with a phantom sitting in front of it, that you're looking at any sort of actual product Infinium has or will have.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (4, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459701)

They didn't escalate, they just called Infinium's bluff. If I'm reading the news right, the legal action here concerns solely the matters that Infinium's original threats of legal action were based on. There is no escalation here at all, they've just moved the venue of discussion.

To call the bluff would just be responding to the threat of a lawsuit with a challenge to sue. This is a little further, HardOCP filed the lawsuit for them...

Re:Here's my view on all this: (4, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459595)

I agree that neither side is coming into the dispute with clean hands here. HardOCP's first edition of the article was not perfect, even they admited that there were several points that needed to be retracted. However, HardOCP handled their mistakes gracefully by retracting what they were proven wrong on.

Infinium thought they had weak prey, so they overreached and added a few threats that they wouldn't be able to follow through on either. They might have even been hoping that they could scare HardOCP into shutting down completely.

It's hard to run a news organization of any kind without at least having a laywer within reach. Whenever you say bad things about businesses, you'll eventually run into somebody who thinks thye have more lawyers than you can ever afford...

Re:Here's my view on all this: (4, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459615)

I disagree. I think that at the time HardOCP did a great job. And for quite a while many here on /. (and elsewhere) have thought that the phantom was just... aptly named.

That said, while I am still quite scepticle of the whole thing, I have to admit I no longer think the console is just vaporware. Between the press demo they did a few months ago for a few select members of the press (which at least had photos of the thing), to fact that they will have an 8,000 square foot booth [gamedaily.com] at E3 I think this might not be vaporware. It could still fail miserably and be nothing like they've promised, but at least they seem to be doing more than saying "we have a great console, we'll prove it later" like they did for so long.

The proof is in the pudding. Nintendo's DS, the Phantom, and more are going to be shown at E3. It should be very intersting.

And let's face it. Suing someone priting facts about you that don't look good more than a year after they were posted (and when you still haven't shown any real proof to anyone yet) just doesn't look good for your company.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (4, Insightful)

screwballicus (313964) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459617)

I bet that HardOCP could have let the "lawsuit" slide and an out of court settlement would have happened, if anything. Now there WILL be a messy legal battle.

Well of course they could have settled on this attrocious claim. And that might perhaps be judged the reasonable thing to do, if concessions to outrageous litigiousness simply because it's litigious are to be the expectation of private bodies in our society. But as of now, many of us still value due process of law over concession to threat. And so be it, that due process of law take its course here.

About Your NDA. (3, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459618)

Doesn't your NDA prohibit you from talking about the product you are testing?

Re:About Your NDA. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459664)

I don't think that goes into effect until they actually send out test units.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (3, Insightful)

Aerion (705544) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459627)

I bet that HardOCP could have let the "lawsuit" slide and an out of court settlement would have happened, if anything.

But that would be taking "the easy and cheap way out of this situation," as Kyle Bennett said, and would be "throwing away [HardOCP.com's] credibility." The point of the countersuit is that HardOCP doesn't want to let this thing slide. That should have been pretty obvious when they posted the threatening letters from Infinium on their site.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (3, Insightful)

ValourX (677178) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459668)

I hope you'll pardon me for saying so, but if you felt "misled" after reading that article then you may have a reading comprehension problem. Whether you do or not, failing to recognize that it is fundamentally wrong for a corporation or individual to attempt to silence a free voice on the Internet is the reason why you got flamed so hard.

The vocal majority is that way for a good reason. If you find that you have differing or opposing opinions, you should ask yourself why. If you truly feel you're correct in your assent, then you'll have to be eloquent and state your opinion clearly and offer a reasonable and detailed explanation why you're on the other side. If you can't do that, you will face the wrath of the vocal majority.

It is never right for someone to threaten a media outlet because they don't like what a writer has to say. HardOCP was 100% correct in refusing to remove the letter and 100% correct in offering to fix any factual errors. There being none, there should be no cause for dispute.

As for your home address... if someone on the Internet really wants to find where you live, they can. Over one million people in the Rochester metro area can find my address and phone number from the phone book that is issued to everyone who has a land line. No one's up in arms about that, are they? You can get lots of people's names, addresses and phone numbers just by searching publicly available tools or by looking up the owner of a domain.

Personally, I'm glad you got flamed; you deserve it if you spoke out against HardOCP in this issue. As an Internet journalist and writer I think it's of extreme importance that everyone recognize that HardOCP is in the right in this matter according to the facts as they have been presented, and that Infinium Labs was appallingly wrong for doing what they did.

-Jem

Re:Here's my view on all this: (-1, Flamebait)

Dr Reducto (665121) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459744)

You must remember, free speech does not come "free". You can't get away with posting flgrant lies about someone, and then claim "free speech". I am not saying this is what HardOCP did, but am using it as an example.

When I say they should have kept things quiet and let things slide, I meant a compromise reached by both sides. I don't mean that HardOCP (or Infinium Labs) should give up their fight. I like the idea of compromise a lot better than litigation. I will admit that Litigation is the main way of resolving conflicts here in the US, but that is another issue.

About the address, I was merely stating that they should have checked the date on the review, because it was 4 years old, and now the area of Maryland to look for me in has changed. Sorry.

I don't feel I deserved to get flamed for "speaking out against HardOCP". I didn't know that advocating a non-litigous solution was speaking out against them. Oh well, I know someone else will excercise their right to free speech and flame me some more. Go nuts.

Sure, I will. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459789)

You seem to be very confused about whether you are talking about an actual situation or a hypothetical one.

My belief about this is that you're delibirately walking the line, so that if any point goes against you, you can claim "Oh, well, I was just using it as an example." But if any point goes for you, you'll be quick to post about how you were right.

I strongly suggest you present a single face in this, whatever face you decide on. This two-facedness is boring, tiring, and the sign of a true forum weasel.

But that's just my opinion.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (4, Informative)

aliens (90441) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459794)

I didn't know that advocating a non-litigous solution

That is not what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that HardOCP give in to the litigation threatened by Infinium.

A non-litiguous solution would have been, Infinium's CEO (Roberts) sends a letter to HardOCP(Kyle) saying, "You hurt my feelings with your article please take it down" and Kyle could have said yes or no, that is a non-litigious solution.

If you read the article and Infinium's response, the article did not contain false information, merely information that isn't very flattering for Infinium's CEO.

What HardOCP are doing is simply bringing this to a head weeks or months before it gets bounced back and forth between the two companies.

It's like a bandaid, rip it off quickly rather than picking at it.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (2, Insightful)

aurum42 (712010) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459808)

Are you affiliated with Infinium at all? Even after re-reading your posts, I'm not certain why you are such a vocal defender of this company, which seemed at least initially to be a sham, according to evidence gathered by HardOCP.

I've read the original HardOCP article, and they seem to have done a thorough job of investigating Infinium, and the evidence is overwhelming that at least at some point of time, the company was just a po box. From their evidence, tt is also quite plausible that the CEO is a dotcom era slash-and-burn artist, who went through VC funding for several companies and never delivered. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? I'm certain all of us would like to hear of it.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (3, Insightful)

Disevidence (576586) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459689)

I wisely see you have removed your sig.

Oh wait, you haven't, despite the admission you haven't played anything on a phantom.

Waspish comments aside, HardOCP do have the perfect right to sue them, and saying "I think this has gone a little bit too far" is rather counter-productive. HardOCP is forcing the issue here and now, to stop what could possibly be endless months of legal threats, with no action. No-one likes legal threats, and the HardOCP team have moved to clear this up.

The blame lies solely on Infinium Labs. They could of just politely asked HardOCP to correct a few errors in the article (which OCP did), but they then proceeded to wax lyrically about legal threats, which was unneeded. Of course, they could of done alot better by ignoring the article, and getting on with making the phantom, or providing some proof to the contrary, but instead they threatened to sue.

To me, that doesn't sound like a secure company.

Hint: To stop flammatory comments, much like my opening lines, change your .sig to "Assigned Beta Tester". HTH.

"Additionally, I don't see how hard it is to believe in the Phantom's existence"

I'd like to have evidence, not faith.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459710)

I think he removed it then put it back.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459711)

HardOCp decided to escalate by countersueing [sic]

No, what HardOCP did is file a declaratory lawsuit. This is a lawsuit that forces a court to decide a set of facts once and for all. In this case, the facts under dispute are those in HardOCP's article.

This is NOT an escalation, it's a resolution.

Btw, I am a law student.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (4, Interesting)

ChaoticLimbs (597275) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459714)

If you ARE a phantom BETA tester I have to ask- Have you received your hardware? Have you played games on the system? What games?

Re:Here's my view on all this: (3, Interesting)

kamikazichaser (670854) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459719)

Hang on, how did HardOCP mislead their readers? I read the article and now have the distinct impression that the phantom gaming console will remain just that: a phantom. It also appears that IL's claims of having many game developers signed up were at least premature if not completely false. It seems to me that this is exactly what someone should get out of the article and has been supported by independent sources. Malicious or not, Steve, the author, didn't lie as far as I can tell. What IL wants Kyle to remove from HardOCP are Steve's opinions and the information he used to form those opinions. I don't think that's going to happen without a court order.

As for a messy legal battle, perhaps you don't understand what they filed. Kyle filed a "declaratory judgment lawsuit" in order to "clear the air and terminate the flurry of demands, allegations, and defamatory Internet posts directed against HardOCP..." This will bring the situation to a head. Hopefully, it will also be the first step to end this rather silly situation.

But really, do you feel that IL has been honest and open about the state of their, um, product?

Re:Here's my view on all this: (1)

tessaiga (697968) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459721)

I think this has gone a little bit too far. HardOCP posted an article that was quite misleading. I don't think they they maliciously *lied*, but definitely misled it's readers.
Could you be more specific about which parts you found deliberately misleading?

I read through the letter that Infinium sent HardOCP, and a lot of it was "he said-she said" where essentially Infinium seems to be complaining that they weren't given a chance to rebut points made in the article before it went to virtual "press" -- points like the existance or non-existance of facilities, buildings, and demos.

There were also other issues that I thought was clearly nit-picking. For example, point 3 complains that because Roberts quit as CEO of BIG 6 months before it went bankrupt, he clearly shouldn't be blamed for the bankruptcy. Is Infinium implying that BIG was doing great until Roberts quit, and suddenly collapsed 6 months after he left? If anything, I think that interpretation of the facts is much more misleading than HardOCP's.

I do think that the HardOCP piece was not favorable towards Infinium, especially in light of more recent [1up.com] coverage that seems to suggest they've actually got working models [1up.com] now. However, as far as I can tell, the HardOCP article was factual in content and it's certainly its perogative to publish a negative piece on hardware that it doesn't like. As long as HardOCP is accurate in its use of research material cited in the case, I think this whole case is less about whether HardOCP likes the Phantom or not, and more about the right of news sites to call things as they see them -- whether you do or don't agree with their opinions. You're free to post a rebuttal if you disagree, but not to sue to shut them up in the first place.

Re:Here's my view on all this: (1)

Bob Davis, Retired (717968) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459752)

What is there to support? Would you believe it if I told you that I had a similar product, and then showed you a 3D rendering of it? Because, that's all that Infinium has done. Announced a product, and then posted 3D renderings of it. There was a demo, but the alleged product didn't demo (or even BOOT) at all.

HardOCP just posted the truth about the console, and provided certain facts that reflect upon the character and believability of the Infinium people. Apparently, they didn't appreciate being equated with shysters, but that's what they seem like. First, they had 15 million in VC. Then they didn't. Next, they had support from most of the leading game companies. Then, they didn't.

Where's the fucking beef?

Re:Here's my view on all this: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459788)

Im just curious about one thing, since Infinium has no office space or factories, do the developers hold meetings at the local YMCA?

Suggestion: (5, Insightful)

niko9 (315647) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459512)

New section for this website: lawsuits

Re:Suggestion: (1)

PeaceTank (758859) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459646)

Its sad but true. I hate the fact that more and more companies have to resort to lawsuits to "protect" their ideas. Ideas aren't property people. Alexander Graham Bell stole the idea of the telephone, Edison took the idea of the lightbulb. It's just how the world works. Either keep it secret (which is, I admit, very hard these days) or make yours good enough that no one could beat it.

Re:Suggestion: (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459663)

>> New section for this website: lawsuits

Graphic suggestion: Justitia (Lady Justice) as a Borg. I suggest a cute one like Seven of Nine, robe optional.

Is it just me? (5, Funny)

paulschroeder (757739) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459513)

...or does anyone else think of the organization from Robocop when they read "HardOCP?

Re:Is it just me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459572)

It's just you.

I think of Naughty by Nature. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459619)

You down with OCP?
Yeah! You know me.
Who down with OCP?
Every pad jockey.
You down with OCP?
Yeah! You know me.
Who down with OCP?
All the n00b3z.

Re:Is it just me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459822)

Well I think of HardCOCK, but thats just me.

Re:Is it just me? (1)

sakusha (441986) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459835)

No, it's not just you.

DIRECTIVE 1 Serve the public trust

DIRECTIVE 2 Protect the innocent

DIRECTIVE 3 Uphold the law

DIRECTIVE 4 Never oppose an OCP officer.

This just in... (5, Funny)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459514)

Word has it that the Infinium console is going to be bundled with Duke Nukem Forever.

Re:This just in... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459541)

im going to kill the next person who uses this tired ass joke. got anything clever to say regarding our phantom overlords or perhaps soviet russia? for shame, "moderators"!

Re:This just in... (1)

Metallic Matty (579124) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459579)

im going to kill the next person who uses this tired ass joke. got anything clever to say regarding our phantom overlords or perhaps soviet russia? for shame, "moderators"!

All I've got to say is Mod Parent up! (Oh, and PS, please don't hurt me, I once made a reference to Infinium Labs and DNF.)

Re:This just in... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459739)

IN SOVIET RUSSIA:

beowulf cluster of phantom overlords bundled with duke nukem kills YOU!

I'm holding out .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459640)

for the Duke Nuk'em Forever and Stars! Supernova Genesis double pack!!

Re:This just in... (4, Funny)

screwballicus (313964) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459658)

You know what the best thing about Duke Nukem Forever's release will be?

No more Duke Nukem Forever jokes.

Think of the kittens....

Re:This just in... (1)

Tarrek (547315) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459816)

Don't be so sure!

Just remember that saying "Daikatana" can still crack up a room full of nerds to this very day!

Re:This just in... (1)

That_Guy_Again (713150) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459676)

Will it run Amiga OS 4.0?

First This Story is for Uber-Fags Post (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459516)

Well, just stating the obvious.

cyborg monkey died last week and uhhh so did taco. k bye.

Holy crap! (4, Insightful)

Trillan (597339) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459521)

Well, that's one way to completely fail to keep legal costs down.

/me grabs a bag of popcorn and waits for the show...

Re:Holy crap! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459604)

/me grabs a bag of popcorn and waits for the show... [slashdot.org] gee that sounds familiar..

Re:Holy crap! (1)

Trillan (597339) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459754)

Possibly because it's an old saying that's been around for at least thirty years.

Re:Holy crap! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459828)

"/me" has been around for 30 years? Prove it and I'll send you a check for $50.

Penny Arcade better get moving (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459527)

...if they want to keep up with HardOCP. Maybe they can put their lawsuit in the form of a cartoon.

Re:Penny Arcade better get moving (1)

tacarat (696339) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459629)

Try one... [penny-arcade.com] or try another [penny-arcade.com] . -------------

Too late.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459660)

SCO beat them too it.

Then the court orders to produce evidence... (3, Funny)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459532)

And in order to win, Infinitum Labs has to produce Phantom, that is all great, kicks major ass and generally proves all derogatory articles untrue. Case dismissed, gamers rejoice, console enters trade :)

Business Models (4, Funny)

dirkdidit (550955) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459535)

So apparently nobody's business model revolves around selling anything anymore, just suing the shit out of everything that makes them pissed off?

First SCO, now Infinium. They should merge and specialize in lawsuits.

Re:Business Models (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459609)

At least SCO actually has a product line,. Personally, I think naming it the Phantom was a big joke in the beginning.

Penny-Arcade (5, Informative)

Digitus1337 (671442) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459536)

Penny-Arcade attacked them over this (infinitum); the strip can be seen here [penny-arcade.com] . The CEO also states this [penny-arcade.com] to which Penny-Arcade responded with "So Tim thinks we did that comic strip to get more traffic driven to our site. That's a nice thought Tim but you're way off. You see unlike Infinium Labs and your doomed console, Penny Arcade is successful. How can I say this without sounding like an asshole? Penny Arcade has more readers in a given second than your site will ever have even if it were to sit and rot on the internet until time ends and the universe implodes. Hmmm, I guess I can't. Tim also says we called him to let him know it's all in fun. This again is bullshit. I don't care if he likes the comic or not. I've certainly never called the guy and I have no intention of doing so. Bottom line, the guy is a lying huckster. I guess he figured he could post that on his forum and we'd never see it. This proves he has no concept of how huge PA is. Penny Arcade isn't just a comic and a news post Tim, PA is a community and we have agents everywhere. Chances are they're watching you even now." These guys love to get into this kind of stuff.

Re:Penny-Arcade (1)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459623)

At least Infinium understands why they're being mocked... understanding that there's a problem is the first step towards recovery from lawsuit addiction.

Re:Penny-Arcade (5, Funny)

blackeye (248653) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459639)

Another poke [penny-arcade.com] from PA today. With posting comics every other day, they're falling behind!

Headline isn't really accurate. (5, Informative)

mcc (14761) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459538)

The way it looked to me they weren't suing them, just asking for a declaratory judgement. I guess it's a kind of lawsuit, but it looked more like HardOCP just telling a judge "These people keep threatening to sue us and it's creating uncertainty. Could you just just decide, let's pretend they'd sued us over the stuff they're threatening to sue over, hypothetically then who would win?". I don't know. i don't really understand it.

Re:Headline isn't really accurate. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459608)

I don't know. i don't really understand it.

Which is why, of course, you have a score of: 5, Informative. Makes perfect sense.

Re:Headline isn't really accurate. (1)

mcc (14761) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459641)

Welcome to Slashdot.

Re:Headline isn't really accurate. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459644)

haha i was just gonna post that.. slashdot moderators are on crack.. interesting post.. insightful,sure.. but informative?!?

Re:Headline isn't really accurate. (1)

parliboy (233658) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459764)

Ah, but this is the difference between informative and insightful. It's informative in that he's pointing out the nature of the filing. It's not insightful at all, however, in that's he's clueless about what it means.

Re:Headline isn't really accurate. (5, Informative)

Aerion (705544) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459734)

The Declaratory Judgment Act [findlaw.com] , under which HardOCP is "suing," allows "any court of the United States, upon the filing of an appropriate pleading, may declare the rights and other legal relations of any interested party seeking such declaration, whether or not further relief is or could be sought."

Also, "Any such declaration shall have the force and effect of a final judgment or decree and shall be reviewable as such." So even if this isn't technically a "lawsuit," its result will have the same effect as the result of a hypothetical suit against HardOCP.

(You don't really need to be told that IANAL, do you?)

Interesting choice of law firm... (4, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459539)

A little quick googling on the term Storm &Hemingway [google.com] reveals that the law firms primary business is usually on the plantiff's side of copyright and trademark disputes... they're the guys who go after those who are infringing.

Nice to see that they can take a /. friendly position too...

Re:Interesting choice of law firm... (4, Interesting)

Amarok.Org (514102) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459651)

It's not such a strange move... if you're afraid that a particular firm might get used against you, you engage their services first. You prevent your opponent from being able to use them, as no firm can represent both sides in a dispute (it's just a minor conflict of interest).

Law firms... (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459662)

Law firms don't take positions, they take clients. And, in most cases, as look as it doesn't get them disbared they will do as the client wishes.

WRONG SITE NAME!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459548)

The site is called '[H]ard|OCP', not 'HardOCP'! These journalist are too stupid to look it up!

WRONG GRAMMAR!!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459568)

How can 'these' journalist look it up if there is only one journalist? Besides, a journalist cannot 'look' it up, it can only 'looks' it up.

Score one for the good guys? (1)

Metallic Matty (579124) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459550)

After reading about SCO in the last news post, I can't help but be glad to see the idiot get the working end of the legal stick for a change.

Good job HardOCP (5, Interesting)

jimbosworldorg (615112) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459553)

I'm glad HardOCP is putting their money right where their mouth is. I'm sick and tired of seeing people back fearfully away from any jackass with a lawyer.

After all, failure to stand up to legal badgering is exactly WHY we're such a litigious society today - because of the payoff.

ObSimpsons quote (2, Funny)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459557)

Jimbo Jones: You let me down, man. Now I don't believe in nothing no more. I'm going to law school.

Homer: Noooo!

frist spto (-1, Offtopic)

ALLXSTHINGS (741497) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459558)

frist psot

YES! f4 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459560)

the hard drive to They learn fr=om our

Bigger problems (4, Funny)

CovertBeaver (590749) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459585)

I think Infinium should be more worried about what the SPCA will have to say about this. [penny-arcade.com]

Does TX have an anti-SLAPP law? (3, Informative)

phr2 (545169) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459593)

California does, so if this suit had happened there, HardOCP would be in a position to collect money damages, from what I understand. (SLAPP = Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation, when someone exercises First Amendment rights and you sue them to intimidate them into shutting up).

California Anti-SLAPP Project [casp.net]

Re:Does TX have an anti-SLAPP law? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459720)

Well it was filed in federal court, but that wouldn't stop them from adding a state count if Texas had it. They can also hit the lawyers with FRCP Rule 11 sanctions, as it seems they're gonna have to fabricate a cause of action as there certainly doesn't seem to be one here.

Re:Does TX have an anti-SLAPP law? (1)

Roger Keith Barrett (712843) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459741)

Are you kidding? You're talking about Texas. Do you think Dubya would of permited such a thing?

As recently as the 70s, they still had a defense in the Murder statute called the "He needed killin'" clause. Now, if they hadn't gotten rid of THAT there would at least been THAT recourse in the law for the common man to fall back on!

Well, I guess it was inevitable... (4, Interesting)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459607)

As SCO has shown us, when you can't make money by producing useful products, you can always make money by suing people.

The article that Inifium is annoyed at is over a year old now. Wasn't Infium's Phantom supposed to have already hit the market by now?

If anything, HardOCP's article should act as a warning to investors that infinium is just a scam.

Re:Well, I guess it was inevitable... (1)

Neppy (673459) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459648)

Sept 17, 2003 - March 3, 2004 is 6 months not 1 year. As you said Infinium is following the SCO example - relevance, importance, intelligence, and currentness need not apply.

Re:Well, I guess it was inevitable... (1)

El (94934) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459707)

As SCO has shown us, when you can't make money by producing useful products, you can always make money by suing people. Wouldn't they have to actually collect some of that money to show us that? Lawyering 101: don't sue anybody that doesn't have enough money to make it worthwhile. I once got sued for $500,000. I drove to court in my old, beat up motorhome, showed to the plaintiff's lawyer, told him "See that? I live in that. It's my only asset. You can try to take it away from me, but I owe far more on it than it's currently worth. Oh, and sorry I don't have a permanent address you can send summons too, or a job that you can garnish wages from." For some reason, he advised his client to drop the case...

What, they found them? (5, Funny)

cryptor3 (572787) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459691)

Documents were served to Infinium Labs representatives in Florida yesterday.

Wait, they found an address and someone to serve the papers to? Looks like Infinium Labs is making progress...

Yay! (-1, Flamebait)

GoMMiX (748510) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459706)

"Put up or shut up, bitch! *slap!*"

The reason of US decline? (5, Insightful)

Roger Keith Barrett (712843) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459712)

I propose a reason for the decline of relevance of US: the amount of money used going for lawsuits (defending against bad claims and making those bad claims) vs. the amount of money that goes to new developing new ideas. so... basically, it's asshole businessmen and CEOs that see a better living from the civil law system than actually thinking themselves. Maybe if all this effort was refocused all these WELL TRAINED tech people would actually have a job. Time to expire ALL of tort law and begin again...

Infinium is real, thier forums prove it... (5, Funny)

DangerSteel (749051) | more than 10 years ago | (#8459726)

I was on the Infinium/Phantom forums last week checking out what people were saying about HardOCP and what kind of games they hope come out and how they can't wait to order thier unit online starting March 31st. I tried to go to the forums today to see what new they had to say about the HardOCP lawsuit. And guess what?

Thier forums are "down for maintenance" I guess that makes sense, they must need the hard drive in that server for the Phantom unit they will demo at E3 coming up. Well I sure hope after E3 they put the forum drive back in thier server !

Obligatory Grousing: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459774)

I submitted this same damn link, with a much better summary, around 3pm Eastern time.

No credit for me, cuz whoever was on day shift ignored it.

Bullshit Artist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459790)

A major weakness in all bullshit artists (Tim Roberts) is projection, they assume that as they are fakes, so is everyone else. The legal threats come from this assumpsion; HardOCP wouldn't do anything and just cave.

This is great... I'm sure everyone knows someone like Tim Roberts and its nice to see them getting taken down.

mod Down (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8459839)

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